Kucinich Postpones Bush Impeachment Effort
WASHINGTON — After promising to mark President Bush’s final State of the Union speech by introducing articles of
impeachment against Bush, Cleveland Democratic Rep. Dennis Kucinich postponed the effort.
Kucinich said Monday that he met with members of the House Judiciary Committee after making last week’s impeachment pledge. He said he came away “hopeful there will be an inquiry by the Judiciary Committee.”
“I will give them the opportunity to proceed before introducing articles of impeachment,” he said in a statement. The committee’s spokeswoman did not respond to requests for comment.
Last year, Kucinich introduced a measure to impeach Vice President Dick Cheney that has collected 24 co-sponsors. His effort to bring the matter before the full House won support from Republicans who wanted to embarrass House Demo cratic leaders, but eventually was referred to the Judiciary Committee.
Kucinich told The Plain Dealer editorial board last week that nine of the Judiciary Committee’s 40 members favor his bid to impeach Cheney.
“I do not believe that there will be an impeachment this year — I don’t think that will happen — but I do think that the questions relating to an inquiry of both the president and the vice president are important so that our nation has a real understanding of the effort that was made, a consistent effort, to mislead the people into supporting a war,” he said.
© 2008 The Plain Dealer
I didn’t exactly have my hopes up. No impeachment “this year.” Thanks for nothing, Dennis.
Gee, now I’m surprised. Exit the mouse who thought he could roar. Chirp Chirp little bird, fly away. Talk to us when you can actually do something. We’ve got all the big talkers we need right now.
Piece of 8.
democrat is as democrat does.
everybody wants time, but time is not for sale and can’t be possessed…
everybody who is anybody knows about the deception, but nobody in DC cares about the People. Their actions speak for themselves.
tick….tick…..tick….
I think all states should follow in Vermont’s shoes. The rest of the world knows this administration should be held accountable. It’s a shame our very own Congress won’t follow through on something that should have been done back in 2003. Probably even earlier than that.
I would suggest all people of this country go learn the law, because you will need to know it even before you walk out your front door everyday. Unless we have to start asking permission to even walk out our own front doors.
Oh please, stop the belly-aching and bitching! The bottom line is he can’t get a damn thing done right now on the impeachment from if the leaders in the House are not ready to stand up and take their lickens’. He’s postponing it because he actually has some traction now. If he introduces it himself with only 9 of 40 supporting it, it’s dead in the water AGAIN. He is - rightfully so - not interested in being the odd duck out. He knows that the evidence is there, and that the judiciary committee is moving in the right direction. Now is the time for deal making and lobbying to make them take it to the next level. He is doing the work of a real politician, something he has been doing all along. Now, when he doesn’t jump at the command of we who think we are better than everybody else, we all start calling him another wing of the same bird. Please.
Yup, and so many progressives thought Dennis was going to be their knight in shining armor, and come riding in on a white horse to save the day. I still have a bad taste from him directing his votes in Iowa to Obama. Integrity in politics is indeed a very very rare thing.
So Mr. Kucinich, what will it take to get the Judiciary commitee members to honor thier oaths of office?Who’s gonna pick up the ball if you’ve dropped it?What a bummer for our “republic democracy”,and constitution.What has happened to “Jeffersons rule” and all the states’ grass roots petitions?I guess the rule of law has fallen by the wayside.Welcome to the neo-fascist states of corporate Amerika!One party under God indivisable,with apathy and dissinformation for all.Enjoy your tax rebates comrades ,go fill up your S.U.V.s. Impeach for peace! j.a.h.
Ted says Obama is authentic.
Sometimes you have to walk the entire circumference of the Earth backwards to wind up one step forward.
Provided, of course, that you don’t Let the Perfect Be the Enemy of the Good.
But don’t worry, folks– we’ll get ‘em next year!
Interesting that Common Dreams did not post a story about this beforehand, but after he postpones the effort?
Conyers has no intention of Impeaching whatsoever! Does Dennis really believe that or has he been threatened?
John Conyers: You know who’s been in more impeachment hearings than anybody in the House or Senate?
Rob Kall: You?
John Conyers: Right.
Rob Kall: And you wrote a book on impeaching Bush, too.
John Conyers: A couple, yes. Well there must be some compelling reason that I’m not doing it right now.
Rob Kall: Pelosi, Pelosi keeps coming to mind.
John Conyers: How could she stop, well, she could stop me because actually it goes through a special committee on the House, but, Pelosi can’t stop me from anything, really.
Rob Kall: Really?
John Conyers: Yeah.
Rob Kall: So it’s you stopping you, nobody else?
John Conyers: Well I don’t know whose ever stopped me before, I don’t know why Pelosi’s going to stop me now.
Really! My my, imagine that.
Two words:
Green Party
www.GP.org
I’m in agreement with leobixby. DK shouldn’t waste the time and effort if he doesn’t have the support. Once he has some backing from the backboneless Dems on the judiciary committee, he can move ahead with it.
It looks like the impeachment of Dick and GW will not be happening, I never thought it would after the first 2 months of the democratic Congress. A bunch of self serving assholes. Dennis has been pushing hard on impeachment when no one else would. He has now decided to postpone (end) his push for impeachment. He knows that it’s just too fucking late and that most of Congress including the Democriters are not up for it. They are up for enjoying the enhanced power of the Executive Branch GW brought for their own purposes, since they think they will win this year. I have my doubts. If Hillary gets the nomination and runs against say, McCain she could loose. This is a very sexist nation after all. If Obama runs he has a better chance except for all the racists in the US. They could decide to vote for the first time in years, to keep the “negro” out of the White House. (They don’t call it the White House for nothing) It’s too bad and I have no faith in the system anymore. None! I‘m taking bets that 2 years from now we will still be occupying Iraq and Afghanistan, Habeas Corpus will not be returned, Investigations will not be happening in the US for war crimes or any other of the crimes committed by this administration. We will not have universal healthcare, the schools will continue to degrade along with our infrastructure. In other words NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE with Hillary or Obama. They will just change the scent of the bullshit. Any takers?
New Zealand is looking better all the time and Canada is looking warmer all the time.
I think so many progressives talked big about Kucinich (myself included) because we are just so hungry for ANYONE to lead against such an openly corrupt goverment.
Regarding this, I greatly agree with MsMUTT- when the federal system is unresponsive, we must concentrate on the state system, then the local system if need be. However the Vermont initiatives came about, it is still a good model for excersising our rights- and actually moving toward real change.
Yes, leobixby, that is how real politics work, but the federal level is sooo removed from me it would again be helpfull for more Vermont-style initiatives, if only to give more strength to the Progressive Caucus in Washington.
Boy, I would love to have been a fly on the wall during the conversation in that room. After all, DK does need to protect his seat in the House of Reps. Perhaps some sweetheart deal was made??
At least they should get someone’s freedom for not impeaching, say Leonard Peltier…
leo bixby: thank you for reminding me Kucinich is the consummate politician, it helped minimize my disappointment; all week I had contingencies on my writings with an alert for Kucinich’s non-appearing impeachment statement for the 28th. But what can you say, when the flip hits the political flop it still hurts for awhile: kind of reminds me of one of Dennis’ darker hours at the Democratic convention in ‘04.
Couldn’t he of just endorsed Wexler’s work on impeachment and then gone back to Cleveland to salvage his congressional seat?
I want my $ back…just kidding: Viva Kucinich!
You guys are all being way too hard on Kucinich. How many of you have even run for local council?
Dennis has been successful in embarrassing the Democan leadership. He has pointed out the holes in their policies and platforms. And in response, the party machinery is helping mild-mannered Democans to challenge Dennis in his own district.
Ghandi said, “First, they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.”
I think a measure of Dennis’s success is that the party powerful are now fighting him. Give him the benefit of the doubt, and some breathing room, so he can focus on remaining a voice in Congress for progressives. If you turn on him now, when he needs you most, we’ll end up with some milquetoast, subservient, big-money-backed, vaguely somewhat left-of-center Democan in Congress from Cleveland.
I knew, before even reading the comments to this article, that you all would jump all over Kucinich, without knowing one iota about what his discussions were with the Judiciary Committee. You are all so predictable, and in my opinion, you’re not good enough to lick his boots. With progressive “friends” like you, who needs enemies.
At least he tried. Did anyone else?
I don’t think anyone is questioning Kucinich’s integrity or effort, although I wonder why he said what he did regarding the likelihood of impeachment this year. The Judiciary Committee doesn’t need more time. That is total BS. They just are fearful like so many others. Fearful of all the dirt coming out, fearful of losing their cozy way of life, fearful of any path but the path of least resistance, fearful of losing who knows what else. Fear is what runs DC these days.
There is so much evidence of malfeasance it might as well just be blowing in the wind. Yet, we continue to get NOTHING but NOTHING. That is why DC is so utterly worthless and the American myth is going to go down hard on the heads of so many false leaders who have willfully led this country into the pits.
Dennis is doing exactly what he ought to be doing by delaying (or canceling) the impeachment noise. In 2008, it’s an election-loser. Pelosi has known this all along and Dennis now agrees, even to the chagrin of most of the CD readers. Elect Barack and a Dem Congress. Get the election first, and get the next 8 years of judges. If, during that time, you want to do retroactive prosecutions of Bush and Cheney, go for it.
But not without THE ELECTION FIRST.
Dream on DD.
That is why I said I would love to have been a fly on the wall during that conversation. One must admit that a question is raised when we see DK go from a “full steam ahead” charge in his quest to impeach Bush and Cheney to suddenly backing off. What was said? What happened to change that passion? That is what I would like to know. I am not passing judgment on DK, but just asking why (aside from the 9 out of 40 in support)?
Before anyone jumps to conclusions, it would be prudent to hear DK’s reason for postponement.
Also, who is Sabrina Eaton? Has she posted any other articles on CD?
doom n gloom, i don’t think you know anything about leonard peltier.
bless the heart of dennis kucinich.
thank you luckylefty. you got it right.
re: backroom deals that some of you mention, perhaps we’ll know the rest of the story come dk’s very own election results. just imagine it, him winning in a “re-count”.
leobixby, dk’s been the odd duck out for quite some time, one of the reasons so many people gave him their support. in reality, your post could have been summed up in one sentence: “now is the time for dealmaking”. period.
it is a sad state of affairs when only nine of 40 are willing to let their voices be heard on such a matter. can anyone give us the names of the other 31? and let us know why they’re in office?
claudius, I would guess Sarina Eaton is a staff writer for the Cleveland Plain Dealer, which is pro-Dennis. He is Cleveland’s hero, having sacrificed his career to save them 100 million bucks.
I’m impressed at how quickly some of the armchair quarterbacks here are quick to turn on Dennis. I was shocked when he endorsed Obama, but I too am suspecting Obama is authentic (not a liar). Certainly the choices he made as an attorney and Illinois state senator have been admirable and have shown that he has skill, courage and judgment.
Let’s send Dennis campaign money and wish him well.
kathyodat
Those thumbscrews on Cheney’s desk can be very intimidating.
Wow! They got to DK too. I bet he was given a “Wellstone” offer he couldn’t refuse. DK may have chosen to live and fight another day.
kathyodat,
I suspect you are right that Sabrina Eaton is a staff writer. I just wanted to be sure that she was not a member of the Corporate Media trying to send us some propogandistic bs. I certainly will send DK some money for his campaign.
shouldawouldacoulda…
I am shocked and disappointed. Kucinich is the bravest and most morally correct person we have- by a long shot. This is terribly disappointing. Maybe the repugnicans got to him, threatened him with a ’small plane crash’ or similar.
It seems that besides not being brave enough, the election is the main reason for the postponement.
If we elect Dems to the House who are for impeachment or who claim that Bush should have been impeached, maybe they can slip it in right after the elections to save American pride.
Yes we have heard there is no difference a million times from the Cynics who want us to get violent in the streets, scrap the whole system… but somehow they haven’t convinced anyone that they themselves have the guts to do that.
Yes I am Dreaming on Common Dreams so shoot me please.
I just voted for Obama in the Florida primary … feels good too!
I certainly wouldn’t call Obama a liar, but that’s only because I don’t think he’s said anything substantive enough to be fact-checked. But “authentic”? What does that really mean? He’s certainly a gifted speaker, but what ARE his politics? How can somebody blabber on and on about ‘change’ without describing what needs to be changed and how?
Remember when Democrats were driven crazy because they perceived people voted for Bush because they’d like to have a beer with him? Who can honestly say that the Obama support isn’t the same damn thing?
Some of you are just way off-base. The Cleveland PD has been an opponent of Dennis all of his career in politics, and just editorialized for his defeat in the primary. The DLC/DNC have targeted Dennis for defeat for his outspokenness and challenge to the established order. This is why Dennis dropped his Presidential campaign effort. Dennis needs support right now, not back-biting sour grapes. If he had left the party, he would have had absolutely ZERO attention for his views and positions. Believe me, I have not been at all happy with the way he was treated by the MSM, but at least he got SOME attention and converts. How much have you heard about what the Green Party has been doing the last year, huh? I have no connection to the Kucinich campaign other than being an enthusiastic contributor and supporter.
Kucinich is such a sad sack. He makes noise like he’s an activist, but loandbehold, he caves instantly when told to by the DP’s DC leadership. He’s hopeful that the Judiciary Committee will look into it? Come on. What a lame flake. You Kucinich supporters have been duped, twice now.
BeForKids, the Cleveland Plain Dealer is NOT pro-Dennis. They despise him, and they don’t hide it. Here’s their editorial saying he needs to go:
http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stories/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1201339966221760.xml&coll=2
They’re supporting that cockroach, Joe Cimperman.
Dennis Kucinich should consider whether it makes sense to fight the good fight within the context of the Democratic Party. Once again, I have to give the nod to keyinside; Kucinich’s values correspond more closely to the principles of the Green Party than to whatever passes for the principles of that albatross of an organization that currently weighs him down.
I am more disappointed in how quick D.K get thrown under the bus.
Seem like people are all to happy to recoil back in to their generalized assumptions.
Any little excuse to give up.
Once again its more important (and safer) to be right by saying the status quo will prevail while being framed in a progressive critique.
Meanwhile lets exchange meaningless chatter and misplace our hopes on a candidate more suitable to the establishment.
I hope for a democrap pres, like the people in Florida hope for a small hurricane.
At least have an opinion, not just some conditioned thought patterns that seeks information to create the world in a way that better fits your hopeless assumptions.
The election does seem to be taking precedence over everything else — which is not a surprise. It is sad though because impeachment offered an opportunity that now appears to be lost for good. As messy and ugly and difficult as it would have been, it would have been an opportunity for remedy both internally and externally. The leaders in the House should have commenced hearings for the good of the country even if the citizens were not up in arms calling for it (leadership means leading). Now it just feels as if the crooks got away with it and will keep on keeping on.
In the absence of impeachment, to expect things to improve out of DC “spontaneously” is a fool’s dream. It is only going to get worse because there is no accountability. Fabricate, spin, lie, cheat, steal, kill — do whatever you want to and then just intimidate anyone who tries to call you out or stop you. It would be swell to be proven wrong, but I sure ain’t going to place any hope in DC.
one might reasonably suspect that kucinich has received very convincing threats of harm to his friends and family. doubt though if he would back down from threats to just his own person.
he’s not perfect but he’s overwhelmingly the best we’ve got i think. objections welcome to this statement.
Well I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt… that postponement doesn’t mean “forget it”.
If Dennis does drop it and tries to back step to get re-elected he will lose in Cleveland!
We will see.
I still support DK because, of all the politicians, he is the one who comes closest to articulating my position, and it seems, most of those who post here. We do not know what he is facing and what he knows about all of this, so anything spoken here is pure speculation, based on limited and partial information. Take action on your own behalf and stay involved. Speak your own truth, and withhold judgment on another’s action. We are in a time of transformation and transition, unknown territory. The future is not predictable because we have nothing on which to base those predictions. The housing market is not coming back in any way we have known before. The financial markets are in flux because new factors of global interdependence are now part of the equation. The people are beginning to speak and be heard, even if the Corp media does not publish it. So, be patient and active, and know that in the broader and deeper perspective, all is in balance and Spirit knows what is best for all of us.
peace,
st john
The problem with all this is that progressives haven’t had ANY candidate who could either win the nomination or get impeachment proceedings going. Kucinich has never been more than the longest of all long shots, without a prayer. He’s not “presidential” enough, because he’s too short and geeky. That’s not my opinion of him, it’s how the media decides anyone is or isn’t presidential timber. First consideration is how they look. It’s not much more than an American Idol contest anyway. Kucinich is the Democrats’ Clay Aiken, except that Clay got a lot farther in his Idol bid.
Let’s not forget that the “president” can now declare any occurrence/situation that he wants “a national emergency”, suspend the Constitution (or what’s left of it), and declare martial law. We have been set up so that we now find ourselves in a situation where there may be no election at all. We have moved closer and closer to a dictatorship over the past seven years, and the final, public declaration of this reality may be just a few short months away. When this happens, look to your own security - we’ll be in another Nazi Germany and all of our choices will carry extreme consequences (they always have, but many have not realized this). If any of you, like myself, have spoken with neighbors, co-workers, friends, etc., about your politics and ideas, you’ll probably be investigated by the committee that investigates “homegrown terrorism”. In Germany, Dachau was initially created for political opponents of the regime. Don’t think they won’t be using the decommissioned military bases for those of us that are investigated. I’m planning my departure now.
BTW, please stop berating DK. He has done his best under the most daunting circumstances. It’s more than any of us have been able to do. Would you be happier if he gave his life, like Paul Wellstone?
What disturbs me about Obama is that he speaks of unifying the partisan divide, which means compromise. Then he speaks of admiration for Reagan. It makes one wonder just what he is willing to compromise and how far he is willing to go with that compromise. Is that REALLY any change at all, or business as usual? Obama is a sham in my view, and he’s hiding much with his supposed ‘message of hope.’ When I hear republicans in the news media praise him, that worries me. If McCain wins, though, tighten your seat belts, because things will get very bumpy.
Why? Blackmail.
How? Warrantless Wiretapping of Congress.
What? You Believed the Chimp-in-Chief when he said it was “Terrorists” they were monitoring?
It was the “Bush Haters” he was listening in on…
The Cleveland Plain Dealer is another MSM which, JUST THE DAY BEFORE this so-called news story, ran an editorial endorsing an opponent in Kucinich’s upcoming congressional race.
Make note that this is the ONLY newspaper left in the city…total monopoly.
Their criticism of him is simply what makes him GREAT!
1. The fact that he’s able to stand up to the spineless “leaders” of the party who refuse to hold this administration accountable for the LIES that took us into an illegal war.
2. His solid leadership and support for impeachment, what this rag calls “fanciful”–really!
3. His ability to “see things others don’t.”– ONE EXAMPLE of this would have been his diligence in actually READING THE BILLS that he VOTES ON!! Would that I should have a representative who would do that rather than whining that he can’t read everything!
The one I recall Dennis calling the alarm on best was his reading of the bill that forced the Iraqi oil companies to privatize and sell off most of their assets to the US oil corps. Good going, Dennis. It certainly slipped by most of those sheep…led by Shepard Nancy.
Incredibly, they try to blame him for their pitiful economy that has been brought on by NAFTA and the export of the manufacturing jobs that used to sustain this region…gee, that was voted in under CLINTON the first, but has been underway since Reagan times.
He obviously needs funds to fight this corporate sponsored attack on him. He is our ONE serious voice in the Congress. Unbought and unbossed in the tradition of Shirley Chishom. Yea, Dennis.////
No accountability for us elected officials. We are untouchable. Would someone please pass the champaine.
That’s all we need, another broken promise by those who we elected into office.
What will it take to get those of you that are in position to do something about the 2 biggest violators in this countrys history of our Consistitution or are you just content to be abettors?
And then you wonder why we are so disgusted with todays Democratic party?
You should be ashamed…
Few points, to the point:
(1) For those cowering with their tails between their legs, who wish to run off to New Zealand, Canada, Costa Rica, or wherever — please do. Your histrionics and hysterics are not needed here. We need citizens willing to stand up, defend and fight for the greatness of what the United States can be. We need people willing to have a voice — who will not remain silent during this time of transition — who are willing to articulate and manifest their belief in a vibrant, loving and open society. Once the political climate is more suitable to their sensitive nature, of course all lazy, whiny freeloaders are welcome home.
(2) How many readers here (or maybe I should say commentators) actually live in the real world? The real world, you see, involves politics. Everywhere. Within the family, within the workplace, within the community, and certainly within the government. That’s how it works: a constant play of relationship. Right now, the Democrats are playing their cards as best they feel they can. We may disagree, and we should let them know. But we should also learn to exist and move within the context of political reality to get things done — genuine efforts to help the welfare of our nation’s people.
(3) Remember, remember, the 5th of November. The coming elections are not a game. Right or wrong, good or bad, who is elected into office (both executive and legislative) will have profound domestic and international effects. It cannot be overstated how important this general election is for the direction of our country and world. The past cannot be undone, but the future we can influence. Immediately following the elections, on November 5, we should begin impeachment proceedings — as a matter of historical record, and also with the aim to prosecute, as appropriate. If nothing can be accomplished in the remaining term of this lame duck presidency, the principals of the current administration should still be scrutinized and held accountable under the full light of the law — even after they have left office. They should not be left alone to enjoy the business interests and cushy revenue streams they have been setting up for themselves during the last 8 years.
(4) As for Barack Obama, I hear the same tired, flaccid excuses against his candidacy. “No experience”… “No substantive rhetoric”… Um, okay. Have you looked into it? He’s clearly laid out his positions and plans for change. Of all the candidates, Republican or Democrat, he is the only one who exemplifies true leadership. Maybe people have forgotten what a leader is, and what s/he can accomplish. We, as citizens, get things done. Change requires our collective effort and action. But a leader inspires, motivates, gives us direction and keeps us on course. A good leader makes sure all voices and all parties are heard, respected and cared for.
In summary, the divisions that people try to manufacture among us are boring and tiresome. Racial, ethnic, religious, cultural, political, economic, generational… None of it matters. Whether we like it or not, we are all in this together.
Peace does not mean war. Love does not mean hate. It’s time for the United States and its citizens to step up and grow up.
Did you see Bush turn to give Pelosi a big handshake and smile last night? “THANKS BABY, FOR TAKING IT OFF TABLE”
Too bad Dennis(or ANY member of Congress) doesn’t have the courage to perform a “citizens arrest” on Bush and Cheney like I tried to do on election day 2006. The Secret Service stopped me at the front gate of the White House, but Dennis could walk right in.I did manage to wrap the entire front of the White House with “crime scene” tape.
http://www.grassrootspeace.org/white_house_crime_scene.html
Perhaps impeachment has become his reason for being and he now takes it very seriously! I agree with the few who felt that he is timing it so that when it comes to the floor it truly has a chance of accomplishing what he intends it to!
Ya, let’s just submit a bill of impeachment now when there’s no chance for passage! THAT makes a lot of sense!
KUCINICH NEEDS HELP TO STAY IN POLITICS
http://www.usalone.com/fight_back_kucinich.php
Its amazing how few of you understood what truth teller wrote:
“The Cleveland PD has been an opponent of Dennis all of his career in politics, and just editorialized for his defeat in the primary. The DLC/DNC have targeted Dennis for defeat for his outspokenness and challenge to the established order. This is why Dennis dropped his Presidential campaign effort. Dennis needs support right now, not back-biting sour grapes.” (truthteller)
To the ideologue posters who are so critical of anyone who is not perfect: it isn’t enough to have a philosophy and then look inward to find answers..you have to deal with reality… truthteller does deal with reality
For a western nation the US is right wing. Many American voters are right wing ..Thats why Bush is president. You live in a a right wing nation.
This is reality
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/us/politics/25kucinich.html?
“Mr. Kucinich, who campaigned on a strong antiwar message, was never able to gain much traction in the polls. He was excluded from the recent Democratic debates in New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina as networks tightened the rules for participation. The televised debates had been the main venue for getting out his campaign’s message.
Mr. Kucinich, a former mayor of Cleveland and a six-term congressman, has a tough primary fight on his hands in Ohio’s 10th Congressional District. Four other Democrats are trying to defeat him on March 4.
One of his rivals, Joe Cimperman, a member of the Cleveland City Council, has been running commercials calling Mr. Kucinich a “part-time congressman” more interested in seeking higher office. And Mr. Kucinich recently posted an “urgent personal appeal” for contributions on his Congressional re-election Web site.”
(Bunch of fair weather friends posting here..support Kucinich but not when he needs YOUR help…then you kick him)
SO WHAT ELSE IS NEW?
Thanks to “Someone” for his excellent summary of the present state of the nation. I am a proud liberal but know how the political game is played….Obama is so much better than any other candidate and we should all be working our tails off to get him elected. Whining about sellouts and moving away will do nothing to put our country on a better course. Obama will not work miracles but change for the better will be made and that’s enough for me - right now in the year 2008.
Yes, I think that Kucinich was given a “Wellstone choice”
or maybe it already happened.
DID ANYONE NOTICE THAT DENNIS’S BROTHER DIED MYSTERIOUSLY JUST LATELY??? HE WAS 52 YRS. OLD. HOW STRANGE IS THAT??? JUST RECENTLY—–LOOK IT UP.
At this pathetic rate the democrats will have to exhume Dubya and Cheney from the grave to impeach the lying stealing murderous bastards.
Kucinich is one of 435 Congressmen, and one of the 9 of 40 on the Judiciary Committee who favors impeachment.
What is he supposed to do?
If he was a dictator like W sees himself, then maybe he could force the others to vote for impeachment.
Unfortunately, he is one of the few who has the cojones to keep bringing it up. Can’t fault him because the others are invertebrates.
He may be a short person, but he stands taller than most in Congress.
If you announce a fight, you damn well better be ready to fight it all the way. That’s the problem here. Many commenters above point out that DK wouldn’t have the votes to move the issue or that impeachment is politically unrealistic to fight about. If that is true, you should consider those facts first, not after you’ve announced that you’re in the game.
Along w/ a lackluster presidential campaign that only added to the media’s undermining of his candidacy, the endorsement of Obama in Iowa (though not overall), and a general habit of capitulating to Demo Party leadership when the shit hits the fan, Kucinich is losing credibility among alot of progressives who risk ostracization and marginalization when they step out front to support him.
Nobody can question DK’s progressive credentials, but it’s legitimate to question if he can be a visible/viable progressive leader. It’s not about being a knight or savior, it’s about having the guts of being a leader if that’s what you say/imply you’re going to be.
I truly admire and harbour a deep respect for Dennis. He has been around the block, he knew when he got his minute and presented Impeachment of the ,ugh, choke, president to the Floor it was against every ounce of protocol in Congress. This had to have been done for not one but a few reasons. John Conyers, he’s a decent guy, friggin’ answers his own phone whenever he is in earshot, for him to play the ‘Maybe/Maybe Not’ game is tedious, he is above that. What a preceding poster said a threat to not just himself, his loved ones too, this about Dennis, now. It was an act of desperation, in a sense, getting that Impeachment of bush out there knowing he would have to withdraw his motion. They laugh at Dennis as if a gang of children at recess keeping secrets, Dennis all the while knowing a helluva lot more than any of us at this parting of ways, so to speak. Conyers and Kucinich are up to something good. I refuse to have it any other way. When he spoke that day from the Floor the resonance in his voice, the conviction, the determined to end it, he had to end it , now.
I know there is musch yet to learn, I for one love a good serial novel.
They got to DK too. We might as well ALL go to Vermont and secede.
America is deep sleeping in the digits of naught
for plenty ain’t something that needs to be sought
It’s a naught that trumps ‘fat man’ or ‘little boy’
singed in the prosper of histories pavement
not to be one but to be naught.
Okay, so why would he back off? What was the sweetheart deal? I personally think he is a nutcase, but his heart is in the right place. He wouldn’t just stop all this hard work and put down his sword–unless something convinced him that there is more at stake–it’s not fear of Pelosi or her dems–they’re impotent. It was Kucinich himself who stopped this crusade–why? Maybe to fight another crusade? What other cause, not related to Bush and the evils he has spawned, would distract a crusader like Kucinich? Something happening in Stephenville, maybe, that was admitted behind closed doors?
http://www.encyclocentral.com/18505-Stephenville_UFO_Texas_January_2008.html
Dennis is not on the judiciary committee.
He has been taking some bad advice lately. Possibly from his wife? She is beautiful and smart, but Dennis should think for himself.
None of our progress has happened willy-nilly, whether women’s rights, civil rights, or even voting rights. Those in ‘power’ do not usually & freely surrender their positions of privilege. All of our country’s progress happens through struggle: individual and collective effort; however small, however big. As Gandhi once observed, “Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it.” It is an ongoing struggle, too, never finished. It requires our vigilance, sacrifice, courage, and compassion. Each generation must carry, and keep alive, the torch of freedom.
Let’s keep in touch with our congress members, letting them know that we expect/demand that impeachment should begin on November 5, 2008, if not before. No one is above the law — not the president, not the vice president, not the attorney general, not the secretaries of state and defense… They are fellow citizens, and they need to be held accountable for their actions, decisions and representation on our behalf.
One last thought. Kucinich recently used some $27,000 of his campaign money to help with a recount in the New Hampshire primary — not because it would affect his place in the results, but so that citizens (across the country) could have a sense of confidence in the election process: that their votes were being handled accurately and fairly. Voter apathy is bad enough… but voter disenfranchisement is worse. Kucinich deserves our support. He is one of the few peaceful voices crying out in the political wilderness.
Leo Bixby is right you guys, not only that Kucinich is fighting for his life and Congress seat, they are throwing piles of shit at him, haven’t you heard?
And bongofury, I hope you are under 54 and have a job lined up in New Zealand, because if you don’t(54 +) you have to give the government there $750,000.00 which they hold for five years, I know, we’ve been pursuing this for a few years now.
Also, check this out regarding New Zealand:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgOsdBTe1s8
Yea, I know, I’d love to live on the Bay Of Islands…but also they are very elitist. So, who knows where we’ll go.
Meanwhile you guys, what you should be screaming about is that piss poor Democratic response last night….call me a media whore, but this was my reaction:
http://marjorieanndrake.blogspot.com/
Meanwhile, I keep getting emails from Kucinich and they are freakin broke and asking for donations so he can hold onto his seat.
Lighten up you guys, he is out there all by himself.
For cryin out loud.
Okay, see you guys.
Kucinich doesn’t deserve the comments in this thread.
The Left, or the “Left” - as it overwhelmingly appears on this thread - needs to shed the hubris. As others have expressed, it takes so little to convince us that all politicians are bad, all is hopeless and there is no reason to support people like Kucinich. This level of despair implies apathy equally as tragic as that of our investment bankers or corporate slaves who have stopped caring where their paychecks come from. History may show that metanoia can occur in all people (get this, even if they are politicians!). Recently, upon hearing of Jim Douglass’ latest research, I understand that part of the reason Kennedy was killed is because he made secret deals with Khrushchev to end the Cuban Missile Crisis. By “compromising” with the “enemy,” Kennedy befriended the Russian leader, played a role in saving the world form horror, and betrayed the war-hawks in his own government who, incidentally, Douglass implicates in his killing.*
How many of us are aware of such a history? While we all bag on everything that’s wrong (what Dan Berrigan simply calls the “bad news”), how many of us preserve the “good news?” After the above incident with the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy gave a speech discussingthe necessity of changein American politics, where we described what can be likened to Dr. King’s notion of the beloved community. Kennedy was, it seems, going 180. For Gandhi, as well, one must remain open and hopeful for metanoia. If people matter, we cannot write them off so easily. Finally, if the goal is to bring a better world, we must - hear goes - “be the change we wish to see,” and wholesale dismissal and ingratitude is a poor example of the kind of change we aspire to. If we’re aspiring at all, that is. And if we’re not, then what is the point in passing judgment? Has that become an end in and of itself? Let that not be our expression; we already live in a judgmental society and it is causing the decline of humanity.
Without support, people like Kucinich cannot do anything. Even with it they may not be able to but the “Left” may benefit from right action for right reason. As far as I can tell, he’s genuine and consistent. Kucinich is a part of the apparatus and still manages to represent a portion of the population that has been totally written off by the vast majority. What other candidate or elected US official comes and speaks to a crowd, calling for the closing of the School of the Americas? And yet, look at this thread … utter disrespect, and baselessness.
Then, of course, we say there’s no reason to choose. No choices.
So many have just trashed a guy who is probably on the verge of justifiable depression. Despite what anyone on this thread has implied about his integrity, running a campaign is heavy work and with the kinds of odds that were against Kucinich, what he did was an act of faith and selflessness. He did it because he believed. The comments here simply abandon him.
The “Left” makes just as many assumptions and unsubstantiated claims as the “Right” - it’s just generally more accurate because, well, it’s generally safe to be suspicious of the government. That does not mean, however, that we are free from conditioning and that we don’t appear helplessly foolish and narrow minded in instances like these. Frankly, narrow mindedness is not limited to any particular political persuasion. It reaches across the board.
One fact of the matter is that despite Kucinich’s best efforts, the American progressive Left has not been putting its weight behind him. He has been systematically locked out of the media (most recently and explicitly, MSNBC which, of course, is owned by GE - a war profiteer). Yet, where were we? How many of us were out, protesting MSNBC and supporting someone who is truthful enough to be forbidden by the media? How many of us seized the opportunity to use Kucinich as an example of how horrific the media’s manipulation of this country is? How many of us heard him on Democracy Now? Finally, how many of us would actually get out and support a campaign or vote?
While the “Right” of this country is homicidal, the “Left” is suicidal. If things were ideal in this country, the neocons (’democans,’ by the way, is pretty silly) would not be able to profit off of war and the “Leftists” wouldn’t have anything to set themselves apart from “the other.” Ultimately, the labels only serve to lock us into thoughtlessness. While I know many to whom these comments certainly do not apply, it saddens me that is still applies to so many. Reckless despair ought simply cross the line and openly work to hinder us. We can sit around and bash everything all we want. Change comes will earnestness and education. And, lest we fall into Obama’s fluffy usage of the word, we should probably work to define the kind of change we seek, and actually make moves. We can start by tempering our own rash approach to dialogue.
Peace.
*Jim Douglass has, for the last ten years, researched the subject of political assassinations in the US. The first, of three volumes, is about the killing of Dr. Martin Luther King. The other two are about Kennedy and Malcolm X. The first is to be published by Orbis Press (and may already be out).
Here’s some “good news” … some hope in action:
http://images.quickblogcast.com/39660-36565/DSC_0028.gif
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/01/80-arrested-in.html
http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/2008/01/81-arrested-in-guantanamo-protest-at.html
I have read stories from the Plain Dealer that I considered supportive of Dennis, but obviously from some of the comments here they didn’t include the editorial board. Kind of like, you know, the WSJ. My error. Thanks for the heads up.
kathyodat
Amen Think Free.
St. John, have you been puttin’ somethin on those little church wafers again?
Some of you have mentioned threats to his person and/or family with a deceased brother. Who knows. Wellstone? Who knows. I live in a country where a President and a Senator (presidential hopeful) have been executed among others, and some had unfortunate heart attacks, and some had bombs put in their cars by people acting for the FBI (Judy Beri / Richard Held).
I believe THAT IS WHAT AMERICAN POLITICS HAS BECOME TODAY. It’s been scorched earth since COINTELPRO. If you open the ball on these boys for any form of economic or social justice, you better be willing to take it to the wall - your opponents will. Not just dirty tricks. They’ll put a gun to your head. If you can’t deal with that, don’t go there. Threaten your mother? Your sister? Your wife? Your CHILDREN? These men “disappear” human beings every day. These men are monsters. Come to terms with it or we will never defeat them.
This is why when the Zapatistas leave home on a political hajra, all their domestic responsibilities are transferred and all of their personal affairs are settled. They know they can die - and they know the moment their heart stops beating in a ditch or a prison cell, someone else is already taking the next step - they trained them. THAT’S A MOVEMENT. That is why they will win. They are willing to pay for their FREEDOM. Few here are. Not that price. Easier to go along and get along.
Tell me DK didn’t know the kind of animals he WAS up against. Why all the foo-foo when you know you’re gonna fold like an empty suit ?
Just like Kerry: We’re gonna count all the votes. BAM!
Just like Gore: We’re gonna count all the votes. BAM!
Dennis Mr. “I’m going to announce Impeachment during the SOU”, was it your intent to diffuse and demoralize? Ha-Ha-Ha? Is that it? Ooopps. Maybe later when the time is right.
BITE ME. Incrementalist. That’s just another version of slow cooking frog. Why don’t you give us a few ringing phrases…I’m sure you keep a couple handy in your pocket. And maybe you could dance a little jig for us while you do it. You know, the one you did in backrooms of the DNC in ‘04. Now that’s E! Unfortunately, it’s a rerun.
Peece.
All hope is lost if even Kucinich bails on rescuing the public from Bush and Cheney. Isn’t there any politician with balls left?
935 documented lies by Bush and administration cronies that culminated in “shock and awe;” the invasion of a sovereign country, Iraq, that did not attack us. And folks don’t think this deserves impeachment? Only the marginalized, crazy “liberals” think that.
Five years later we are still there, trillions of dollars in debt, the bombs still falling, the same liars still lying, the media still propagandizing for Bush, the Congress still rubber stamping and 4,000 young military dead and thousands gravely wounded. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis murdered and the Democrats don’t think this rises to the level of impeachment? If only we could have produced a blue dress!
I vacillate between blackmail and threats of physical harm as the reason for Democrats spinless behavior. Remember, Bush was illegal wiretapping as far back as February 2002. What do you suppose he may have heard Pelosi say?
As for Kucinich, I believe he has seen the handwriting on the wall and decided he better work to keep his House seat. After all, it pays pretty well and provides good health care and retirement benefits. Where is the gain to attempt to force impeachment when the cards are stacked against him? However, I believe he has known this all along and was disingenuous when he brought up the issue as if he could move it forward. I did send him a small donation because he’s an O.K. guy and speaks truth to power for whatever good it does. Maybe it gives him a “feel good” day now and then.
Here is a video interview with Conyers, who heads the Judiciary Committee and who wrote a book about impeaching Bush.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPkBuQfZfFo
Though he doesn’t elaborate, he makes the point that if they are not currently pursuing impeachment, well, there must be a good reason. He concludes by saying that impeachment is not off the table.
Please people, pull your heads out! This guy has stood virtually alone for the last nine months, holding steadfast to his belief that Americans want to see impeachment happen. If nothing else, he succeeded in bringing the debate full-circle, to the point of almost reaching the fringes of main stream media.
I think Dennis deserves a bow! Am I disappointed to hear his statement about there not being impeachment this year? Yes. Am I disappointed that he dropped his bid for president? Yes But he still has bigger balls than the rest of Congress combined!
So I say BRAVO Dennis Kucinich! ENCORE!!
so now Kucinich gets attacked because, despite doing everything he could, he lost the fight? That’s damn sad. You blame him, and not Pelosi and the rest of the “Republicans in drag” who blocked him? What do you expect ONE congress person to do? He did all he could legally AND morally. But I guess that’s not good enough. Should he self-immolate in protest, or become a suicide bomber? Damn, you so-called progressives have just as much empathy for the ones struggling in the Washington snake pit as the Republicans have for the people working at McDonalds. This country IS getting the government it deserves. Enjoy Queen Hillary as much as you did Emperor Bush.
So, “progressives”, what else do you need to finally understand that you don’t have a “home”? You’ve been had yet AGAIN by your glorious “party of the people”… “Roll-over Gore, Koward Kerry, and Dennis the Fake”. (And don’t forget MoveOn.org! I’m sure they’ll step up to the plate for your money and attention now)
Dennis has done nothing. NOTHING — but suck away money, energy, time and most of all HOPE from people who just want someone — anyone — to do something about these criminals. But, I could have told you this was gonna happen. It always does. Now he’s taken your money, hopes and dreams. There is no one left now to get behind. The only ones left are shills for Wall Street and the pentagon. The murdering and looting will continue.
But, that’s the Dems for ya! Gotta admire the way can stick it to their party’s true believers and KEEP sticking it to them–time and time again.
This was all about Dennis’ pr. It worked.
Its really very sad.
Can’t wait to see Dennis at the Democratic Convention hob-knobing with all the “going along to get alongers”. What a dirty, rotten shame.
You need numbers..and a few politicians at the top can not change a system.
If people here want change then talk to the people on the political right or people without political positions and change their minds.
The few people who are in power and who want change should be supported, not vilified because they are not following precisely your own point of view.
Dennis is a good person doing the best he can under a bad situation. I admire him. The guy has courage and conviction.
Spoken like a true mindful intellectual, tg new berlin.
Perhaps, “your just like the rest of them, mindless” yet it’s not so simple. You’re obviously not “mindless” and so, your level of discourse is deeply troubling. On the level of worth, what is such a comment worth?
Cripes! Those of you who are ripping on Dennis make me sick…. He didn’t say he wouldn’t bring the articles of impeachment, he said he’d give them a chance to move. But he knows, as do we, that a serious movement toward it will not occur with Pelosi in the way…
In other words, he is being a realist. Stop maligning a good and decent man..
Are there any “IMPEACH PELOSI” bumper stickers available?
I’m sorry. I really am. I know many people on this blog had, and still have, their hearts and hopes, attached to Dennis Kucinich. In my occasional attempts, sometimes nasty, of deconstructing the idols of the left - I always left Dennis alone.
And I shall continue to do so, I only wish, to extend my heartfelt condolences on the death of yet another dream. The last time I got excited by a politician was Jesse Jackson in ‘88. That was a long time ago.
Progressives have no heroes. Maybe Ms. Turner is right “We don’t need another hero!” I don’t know - but again I’m sorry.
Ramsay
Still can’t believe what I’m hearing and seeing of Kucinich. There must be a dark basement somewhere where they take the candidates for real power in this country and show them the American family skeletons, and somehow the power of these things seems to make the boldest minds and tongues go still. I have yet, that is, to hear any explanation for Kucinich’s quitting his positions more or less silently as he has, and now this fob-off of impeachment, the only remedy we have from The Constitution for what has happened to us and continues to get worse….
Since Dennis got in Koppel’s face in 2004 about the corporate media being an issue, he has been stonewalled. How convenient that he was barely mentioned in the press during the early caucuses, kept out of debates, and now being harangued by more corporate media. Could it be a concerted effort to distract him from these articles?00
>>death of yet another dream
Time to stop dreaming, people.
Dennis makes promises or gets hopes up and then steps aside and lets the adults take over. He has shown tremendous courage to SPEAK up, but no real action is happening and he stays within the criminally complicit party.
Time for a new plan.
It’s not a matter of jumping all over Kucinich. It’s a matter of recognizing the fact that it was a waste of time to put all this energy into thinking you can change the character of the “democratic party” to begin with. The “democratic party” is not a democratic party, it is owned, lock, stock and barrel, by a very wealthy faction of the U. S. ruling elite. Deny it all you want, but don’t get righteous when some of us speak out against the right of true believers in Dennis Kucinich, or Mike Gravel, or whoever, to make their campaigns an end in themselves. I am unsurprised by Dennis’ decision, he will now put his energies into getting the Democratic nominee elected, and then it’s all business as usual. That’s for those of you who fall asleep whenever a so-called “democrat” is in the White House. Then, shit breaks loose, and you all come before us with the claim that “we’re all responsible for u.S. policy”.
Well, no, some of us support the milder version of imperialist aggression and intrusion of corporate hegemony called the “democratic” party, and some of us don’t, because we got our fingers burned by those cocksuckers often enough to know they aren’t about shit. It’s too bad you all have yet to figure it out. But don’t think I say so because I think I’m superior to you. I made the same mistakes you’re making, and people tried to warn me away from them also, and I listened about as well as you “practical” people do, and thinks actually continued to go backwards and got worse.
Maybe one day you’ll see that, and move beyond rhetoric to reality.
ThinkFree, I LOVE what you said. You could be a leader with the eloquence of your words. I too think that Dennis must be feeling exhausted, demoralized. Once again, he is alone and disparaged, never being given the benefit of the doubt.
To those here trashing him, I understand your frustration, anger and despair. But he is and will always be my hero. A true patriot. Even Gandhi wasn’t perfect. Neither was Martin Luther King, Jr.
Like ThinkFree said, Dennis is only one person and he is human, God help him. He recently lost his brother, he was shut down by the media, the courts, the Democratic Party that he has tried so valiantly to reform, and now they are trying to run him out of Congress. How much can one person take?
The circular firing squad is alive and well on CD - no surprise to me. I’ve seen it my whole life. When I represented death row inmates, many years ago, I was naive enough to think we were all in it together, trying to save our clients from being railroaded because they were too poor to afford decent representation. Boy was I naive. I’d never seen such animosity as I did among people who supposedly were all fighting for the same cause. That’s when I learned how vicious the left can be to their own. And this thread is a perfect example of that. Same as when Dennis dared to tell his supporters to caucus for Obama if he didn’t reach 15% viability in Iowa. Turned on him in a heartbeat.
You give the man no credit at all, yet I don’t see any of you out there, risking your your reputation, your livelihood, your sanity, your family, your friends, your very life…. It’s so easy to sit back and criticize.
I’m a school teacher, Anne Faith. In fact, I’m a school teacher who believes profoundly in the democratic classroom, and is constantly under the gun risking my reputation, my lifelihood, my sanity, my family, my friends, and my very life, to repeat your litany. And there are a lot of teachers like me, and we work just as hard at community organization as Dennis Kucinich does, and we’re god damn tired of political campaign committees absorbing all the energies of people we organize with a bunch of fucking bullshit like the idea that the “democratic” party can be taken over in a period when the party no longer tolerates dissenting views on its own campaign platforms, or gives encouragement to same.
I’m sorry if you’re new to all this- you certainly talk as though you are. Your analogy of the “circular firing squad”, or the tired dogma of unity come what may, is what drives the democratic party today, and that’s exactly why it’s as fucked up as it is. But what you see here is the exhausting process of a political movement- a real political movement- struggling to find voice, with the enormous distraction of a spectaclized presidential campaign to add to the confusion. If you can’t stand that, that’s a problem. But it’s not a problem with the critics of Kucinich, it’s a problem you have with the noisiness of the democratic process. Stifle yourself if you want to, but leave the rest of us the hell alone.
For those who doubt DK’s ongoing integrity on all the major issues, try this page: http://www.dennis4president.com/go/resources/issues-library/
DK also attacked the US use of military spy satellites a while back. Maybe it was his ‘interest in UFOs’ which helped the latest US spy satellite to malfunction and which, -( like BushCo ) is now due to drop like a very dead duck from a great height?!
[extract] … “Dennis Kucinich delivered a blistering attack on the Bush Administration today, charging that the White House is setting the stage for a war in Iran and, at the same time, using the “same mantra of terrorism to justify using military spy satellites and other high-tech military assets to put every citizen in our country under surveillance.” ”
In his book ‘The Courage to Survive’ DK depicts well just how much he had to seriously struggle to get through his early years. He’s really NOT a quitter. Elizabeth Cook’s great feminist anthem, ‘Sometimes It Takes Balls To Be A Woman’ could just as well be adapted for the very few really NOBLE politicians like DK. He’s a far braver man than most of the corrupt devils in power, and sets the standard that most politicians don’t even *aspire* to, ~ let alone achieve.
Speaking personally, I like the majority of politicians about as much as I love cockroaches, but DK is about the only one I would trust, on almost any issue at all. I therefore feel that if he’s taken a decision, it will likely be the one that most of *us* would have had taken, -had we been in his place!
Conspiracy theories abound, (hereabouts on C-D) –why all this ‘glass half-empty’ acerbic, sadly very cynical, and bad spirit, when the real fight is *never* over?
And yes, Dennis’s brother Perry has recently died, -probably of natural causes. Perry was an artist, and had a few mental problems, and Dennis loved him dearly, so DK has had to handle *that* personal tragedy, as well as all the other muck that gets thrown his way.
And now, here at C-D, we see even more muck being thrown at him, by erstwhile ‘friends’.
~Hmmm, who needs enemies… !
For those interested in DU issues, read: http://www.kucinichonline.com/pdfs/Kucinich_Depleted_Uranium.pdf
Ps: A BRILLIANT post from ThinkFree above, –well worth re-reading methinks!
[thanks pal!]
¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
Finally, maybe a useful tip: The dark-hearted right-wing-nuts crawled into power because they managed to put aside their lesser disputes in the cause of stealing power and obtaining their bigger goal: to hurt humanity with their nasty, selfish and wholly abominable plans.
We could maybe learn something from them?
~It’s called UNITY! Divisiveness only plays into the hands of those who now again pretend to be one thing, but are out to deceive.
IMHO, DK *isn’t* one of these, but the rest of the bunch? - well, I have my doubts as to their morality and integrity!
Can someone give me a straight answer about Dennis? I know his anti-war position. But hasn’t he also always been anti-choice? I heard somewhere he recently decided to become pro-choice. Living in neighboring PA I’m used to Dems being pro-worker, pro-environment, pro-diversity, but anti-choice. I’m sick of being told to put reproductive rights on the list of issues that should be overlooked because these guys are “good on other issues”
Sorry, eshu, I have just as much right as you to express myself on this site. Perhaps you and others are right that Dennis will ultimately fall in line with the Democratic Party sellouts and support Hillary Clinton in November. I don’t think he will. But if he does, then I’ll know that you were right and I was naive and got sucked in.
But I’ve still got some idealism left in me, and I still believe in Dennis. And I will defend him when I believe he’s being unfairly maligned.
Have ya sold out Dennis ? ? ? ? If anyone EVER deserved political impeachment, it is “Shrub”; aka Little Bush, aka the Corporation desguised as a human, aks the president.
I am in a state of shock that he would postpone an event that so despartely(sp)needs to happen ! ! !
Someday Kucinich has to decide who he is and where he stands. I like most of his beliefs. But he submerges those beneath his loyalty to the Democrats. This is yet another example. I like him, and if he’d ever cut his ties to the Democrats, I could support him enthusiastically. But, for this whole election season I couldn’t support him because I know no matter how good he sounds on many issues, he’ll always back away at the last moment from his beliefs and decide that being a Democrat is more important to him.
——————
I believe Kucinich is Catholic, or from a Catholic background. He was anti-choice for a long time because of that. But back in 2004 when he started running for POTUS, he backed away from that and became more pro-choice.
Actually, I’m just the opposite. I can’t imagine not supporting a candidate like Kucinich just because he’s not pro-choice.
To me, you’ll never find a candidate that’s perfect on every single issue. The only way to do that is to run yourself, but then if the rest of the world thinks the same way, you’ll only get one vote … yours.
Maybe these two comments are contradictory. But I don’t really think so. I could say I support Dennis on everything except his support of the Democrats. But to me that goes beyond one issue. Its more a question of do you submerge a lot of good beliefs in favor of staying in a party that’s dedicated to corporate power and against almost everything I think is good about America as it was once conceived. And the fact that when Dennis refuses to break with the Democrats, that really means he’s back pedalling away from all the things he says that I like … its just that I know as long as he stays committed to the Democrats, he doesn’t really believe the other things he says because they are the opposite of today’s Democratic party and he always puts today’s Democratic party above these other believes.
To be totally honest, I’d have more respect for him if he’d stuck with his anti-choice beliefs when running for President … even though I don’t agree. I won’t reject someone on one issue like that, and I’d appreciate the strength of character it would show. And heck, if you are going to get the support of 1% of the party, he might as well have done it sticking to his beliefs.
————
In short, I don’t think anyone can give you a straight answer about Dennis because he is self-contradictory in all of the ways I’ve described. Which is why I didn’t waste any effort on this latest campaign after supporting him in 2004.
If you go to the above link for the D4pres website, remember this. Anything he says that sounds good, he’ll sell out to stay a loyal Democrat. Take it all with lots of grains of salt, because its all less important to him than staying a Democrat.
To me, the whole exercise was just more BS to try to keep progressives in a Democratic Party that believes and constantly acts in the opposite of a progressive party. Like the rest of the Dem party, its all a big lie.
Well, call me stubborn, but, if it’s Hillary as candidate, I’m writing in Kucinich anyway.
With all Democrats, including Dennis, watch their actions and discount their words. Today was yet another ‘action’. He says he believes in impeachment. But, when the Dem leadership leans on him, the action he takes is to back off. Watch the actions, they reveal the truth. Today yet again revealed some more truth about Dennis.
If you like Kucinich and what he says, go to the Green Party.
You’ll find the same beliefs there, without the other BS you get from Kucinich. And you can help build a useful movement instead of wasting time and effort in a corrupt and useless Dem party. Building something bigger than one useless campaign is very important. If we never build an alternative, we’ll never have an alternative.
Why waste a vote writing in Kucinich? Vote Green instead.
For one thing, if the Greens were to get even 5% of the vote, they’d cross a threshold where they could get federal matching funds for the next election. If all the progressives who can’t support a pro-war, pro-corporate Dem would do that, then the Greens would get much more than 5% of the vote and that would be a big step forward.
Those of you knocking Kucinich I’d be willing to bet are ALL still in the pubescent stage of life. If you ever get mature enough for your voices to change, go try speaking up in front of 434 congress members who don’t have the guts to speak out for what’s right. Oh wait, you’d fit right in.
Dennis is the Integrity I want America to be about. If he backed off of Bushwhack, I trust his reason for doing it. It’s alright to make a new decision based on new information or to change your strategy as the situation progresses.
It sure does seem like a lot of back door deals are getting turned with the same key however. Somebody needs to plant a listening device on bush, rove, & cheney to show the rest of America what a bunch of thieving, freegin malaria carriers they are. Hey, it’s a way to get evidence that they can’t destroy. And mcconnell, lindsay graham, john boehner, orin hatch…. Would somebody vote these parasites out of office please>
Every fifth republican male senator is named john. With so many johns in the senate, why did larry craig have to go to the airport?
Kucinich has never voted on ANY legislation that could be viewed as undermining the welfare of the citizens of this country.
Those who insist on sticking pins in a lone public servant who has consistently defended the rights of U.S. citizens while other politicians have tried to destroy them, have chosen the wrong person to use as their voo-doo doll.
Wasting his time on a futile attempt to impeach Cheney or Bush while actors in his own party are trying to replace him with mirror images of themselves would not serve our best interest; he needs to focus on maintaining his position in Congress for the sake of the people and the future of this country.
We don’t need any more lap-dogs occupying seats in the House or Sentate!
Looks like there’s another “bash Kucinich” party going on here. Easy mark, isn’t he? Anyone who has the courage to wear their heart on their sleeve usually is.
First he tried to help people by telling them the truth, then he was made invisible by the enemies of the people he was trying to help, and then the people he was trying to help attack him. Way it goes.
Comarc,
Blaming lack of numbers on Kucinich serves no purpose. Ultimately, this has absolutely nothing to do with Dems, Kucinich, Greens. It’s sheer lack of numbers.
By the way, COmarc, if Kucinich wasn’t a Democrat, he almost certainly wouldn’t be a Congressman, and if he wasn’t a Congressman he wouldn’t have been in a position to introduce articles of impeachment in the first place.
Unity behind what? I pro-corporate Dem party that doesn’t represent anything I believe in.
Sorry, I’m old enough to have been through this loop once. Back in 92 I heard the same claims from the Clintons. That the Reagan\Bush years were awful and the answer was just to elect Dems. I fell for it, voted for Clinton in 92, and celebrated his victory that night. And what did I get. 8 years of Clinton and the Dems advancing the coporate Republican agenda.
Examples?
– Nafta and Wto … both pushed by the corps and for the corps and which helped corporate profits at the expense of millions of good American jobs. Both overturn democratic local sovereignty for corporate rule
– Welfare reform … The Clintons helped to dismantle the last remnants of FDR’s new deal. Life’s harder for a lot of people today because of this.
– Federal death penalty and the first steps of ‘anti-terror’ laws taking away our rights. More federal police powers.
– An illegal war in Yugoslavia and cruise-missile diplomacy in Iraq. Notice carefully that back in 2002 Bush kept quoting Clinton policy and statements towards Iraq as a prelude to his war. Clinton enthusiastically supported a bill calling for regime change in Iraq. The Clintons also funneled hundreds of millions of dollars to right-wing terrorists in Colombia.
– Telecom bill of 96. This is what created the law that allowed today’s media conglomorates. If you don’t like Clear Channel controlling radio, and AT&T controlling your internet access, thank the Cintons.
– Banking ‘reform’. After the banking crash of the depression, the FDR reforms included something called Glass-Steagal that put good limits on the crazy things banks could do. The Clintons helped repeal this. And today’s sub-prime lending crisis, credit crunch and recession are the result. Short term profits for banks and big bonuses for bank bosses. They took the money and ran with the Clintons blessing, leaving the rest of us heading for a crash. Thanks Bill and Hillary.
– The first ‘jobless recovery’. Just like Bush’s recovery early in his term didn’t help average Americans, neither did Clintons. Inequality grew and ordinary Americans saw their incomes stay flat or fall. If you had the bribe money to pay for a night in the Lincoln Bedroom, you could get rich under the Clintons. All of this at the price being paid by ordinary Americans who can’t bribe people like that.
– Militarism instead of a Peace dividend. When the Clintons took power, the talk was of a peace dividend at the end of the cold war. We’d been spending fortunes on the military for ages during the cold war. People were talking about what we could do with that money now that the US had no enemies in the world. Instead, the Clinton years were a time of continuing of spending the money on defense (against no one) while the military searched for a new mission. The world would be a very different place if the Clintons had not been militarists.
– Osama Bin Laden. The Clintons kept our troops in the Muslim holy land of Saudi Arabia after the end of the first Gulf War. This is a part of what pissed off the fundamentalists like OBL.
– Dead Iraqis. Both the Clintons and Bush have killed a million or so Iraqis during their terms. Actually, its a bit more uncertain whether Bush killed this many, while it is very certain and documented that the Clintons did. Two UN directors of the oil for food program resigned during the Clinton years calling the Clinton policy genocide. 500,000 children under 5 died per a UNICEF report, and many more older than 5 died also. This is the second of the three reasons that OBL gave for attacking America on 9-11. When you think of 9-11, remember that 2 of the 3 reasons for the attack were things the Clintons could have changed with any decency and common sense.
I could go on and on and on. But I ask, is this the record we should unify behind. Because its certainly the record of the Dem party and its a record supported by both Obama and Hillary. So we unify behind this. The above is evil. Its why I call the Dems the Evilcrats.
Yeah, lets ‘unify’, but lets unify behind a policy and a movement we can believe in. Not this record of evil in support of corporate profits that is the record of the Clintons and the Evilcrat party.
Maybe Kucinich couldn’t have one his first election without being an Evilcrat. But he’s certainly so established in that seat that he could have left the party at anytime and stayed in Congress.
Today Dennis certainly took an action that undermined the welfare of the citizens of this country by not following through on impeachment. And he’s basically been doing the same thing for the last 5 years by being a loyal Democrat and not pushing impeachment. It may not be a ‘vote’. But failing to act is also an action.
I like Kucinich’s words. But you have to look at actions. When push comes to shove, Dennis’ actions do not match his words. And they can’t as long as he stays a loyal Democrat. He talks a nice game, but he always has to put the talk on the shelf as long as being a Democrat is more important to him . Because of this, I’ve stopped paying much attention to his talk because I know its BS that he won’t follow through on because staying a Democrat is more important to him.
Shada, to answer your question: Yes, Dennis used to be anti-choice, although he had a change of heart about that issue a few years ago. He was raised as a Catholic and I suspect that it’s difficult to change your mind about that particular issue with that history. But he managed to do so. He has stated that his wife, who is just as much of a peace advocate as he is, helped him change his mind. Of course there are probably people out there who will be happy to bash Kucinich because he pays attention to what his wife says, instead of treating her like a mindless but pretty nonentity.
He’s been bashed by progressives about his past history of being anti-choice, but isn’t changing your mind about something when you get new information a sensible thing to do? After all, that’s the way science works.
People should perhaps remember when they start bashing Kucinich about changing his mind about this particular issue that George Bush, Mr. Anti-science, has absolutely refused to change his mind about anything at all. And we all know where that’s taken us.
My complaint with Kucinich is precisely the lack of courage to match his actions with his words. Talk is cheap. Magicians always fool the audience with talk and the waving of their hands. You have to watch actions. Today was an action. And a very telling one and one that fits Kucinich’s pattern for a long time now.
One reason for the lack of numbers is because people keep wasting time and effort trying to work within a corrupt and undemocratic Democratic Party. And my biggest complaint with Kucinich is that for 6 years he’s failed to build anything bigger than a campaign that goes nowhere. Its all been a giant waste of time, energy and resources that’s left nothing useful after its collapase. If Kucinich had been doing this as a Green, if all the Kucinich-nicks who can’t tolerate any criticism of the man had put all this effort into building an alternative party, then we’d have something.
I don’t expect a Green campaign to magically win the next election. But the key is that if we put this time and energy into building an alternative, we can build and grow an alternative. I’m sick of only having the choice between pure evil and a slightly lessor evil. And as long as all this effort goes into the black hole that’s the Democrats, that’s the only choices we’ll have in every election. We have to build an alternative it we want an alternative.
I keep saying I like Kucinich’s words and what he says on issues. Its just a crying shame that all this effort and all this support for him has been poured into a useless effort that as doomed to fail and which built nothing in its wake.
I’m old enough to remember the McGovern and Carter campaigns that were grassroots efforts that defeated establishment Dems for the nomination. And I’ve paid enough attention to see that the Dems changed their internal rules after that to make sure it never happens again. Trying this from within the Dem party was about as useful as running headfirst into a brick wall. The very rules and structures of today’s Dem party guarantied it would never work.
If this was still the Dem party of the 70’s, I’d support an effort within it to create this change. But it was obvious that its useless in today’s Dem party. While I like Dennis personally, its clear that as long as he stays a Dem he’ll always have to fold his hand. What he says will never matter because the Dem party will always make him back down the way it did today on impeachment. And any effort poured into his campaigns is just a giant waste.
Comarc: Can you point to a thread in his voting record that is reprehensible?
One of the philosophies behind Common Dreams is that many of us — anarchistic (we laugh at you fools), Green, Libertarian, Populist, Democratic, Socialist, even Republican are about pushing the body politic of this country forward, modernizing our antiquated systems, honest-izing, returning respect for reason and science, bringing the debate back down to substance, etc. We disagree on particulars, but all seem to agree that our country has endemic, perhaps terminal, issues.
It would matter not one whit whether Kucinich was a Dim, Rethug, Green, or a sold-out European style Green. There is simply lack of numbers to do any sort of impeaching, let alone indicting. This country is run by Bush and his enablers (75-90%+ of Congress), plain and simple. I see no indication, based on voting record, that Kucinich is one of them.
Kem, how many articles of impeachment did Edwards introduce?
It is just pure coincidence that Dennis heartfelt change on the question of choice just happened to occur in the year he first decided to run for the Dem nomination for POTUS. The fact that he knew that a progressive campaign for the nomination would be dead in the water from day one for an anti-choice candidate had absolutely nothing to do with it I’m sure.
Like I said, not every action is a vote. There’s lots of things he hasn’t done because the Dem leadership said no. Those are actions too. My very point is that while his words sound good, he won’t follow through on them if the Dem leadership is adamantly opposed.
Today’s action in not pushing impeachment is a very strong example that you seem to want to ignore. DK has been talking in favor of impeachment for ages. But he refuses to actually take an action because the Dem leadership is strongly committed to protecting Bush from impeachment and has openly promised not to impeach Bush. Thus the Dem leadership has obviously been leaning hard on Kucinich and Conyers who both have talked in favor of impeachment, but who back down from actually doing it because the Dem leadership says no.
So, my answer is to look no further than the headline of this article. There’s your answer.
When there are bills before Congress, once the leadership has the votes for passage, others can vote the other way without pissing off the leadership. So yes, DK has a nice voting record. But that doesn’t mean he won’t always fold his hand and follow Dem leadership orders when they really insist. And the key point is that when the Dem leadership insists, DK’s fine words go out the window. It happened in 2004 when they insisted he endorse Kerry and not try any fights at the convention, and it happened today again on impeachment.
Can’t see getting mad at Kucinich he is ahead of 434 other representatives on the issue of impeachment. I think a lot of ducks need to be lined up before he can go ahead. He has to choose whether to make a noble gesture and certainly lose or try to win the day.
He may yet have to do the noble gesture, because of the wimps in both parties who would rather watch their own power diminished, the Constitution shredded, human rights violated, and the entire nation humiliated throughout the world than oppose the worst president in US history.
In a 435 member body like the House, you’d have to find cases where the margin was going to be one vote and the leadership needed DK’s vote and couldn’t get that one vote anywhere else. That’s when push would come to shove. That’s when if the Dems said DK, vote with us or you are through in this party, then you’d see where he really stands.
That almost never happens. And usually DK isn’t in the margins of such a vote. Given the combination of Rethugs and pro-corporate Dems in the House, the leadership usually has the votes they need. And if its close, there are usually much more conservative Dems they can lean on to get that one vote they need.
All of this is why the voting record doesn’t refute my argument. The key is once DK decided to play on the national stage and contend for the nomination, or to try to push an issue like impeachment, then you see push really come to shove.
Today we saw push really come to shove. The Dem leadership did not want their friend Bush to be embarrassed on the day of the state of the union. And the Dem leadership clearly does not want an impeachment motion to be filed. So today we saw push really come to shove, and we saw which wa