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UN: Eco-Farming Feeds the World
For years now, the most-asked question by detractors of the good food movement has been, “Can organic agriculture feed the world?” According to a new United Nations report, the answer is a big, fat yes.
The report, Agro-ecology and the Right to Food, released yesterday, reveals that small-scale sustainable farming would even double food production within five to 10 years in places where most hungry people on the planet live.
“We won’t solve hunger and stop climate change with industrial farming on large plantations,” Olivier De Schutter, UN Special Rapporteur on the right to food and author of the report, said in a press release. “The solution lies in supporting small-scale farmers’ knowledge and experimentation, and in raising incomes of smallholders so as to contribute to rural development.”
The report suggests moving away from the overuse of oil in farming, a problem that is magnified in the face of rising prices due to unrest in the Middle East. The focus is instead on agroecology, or eco-farming. “Agroecology seeks to improve the sustainability of agroecosystems by mimicking nature instead of industry,” reads a section.
The report shows that these practices raise productivity significantly, reduce rural poverty, increase genetic diversity, improve nutrition in local populations, serve to build a resilient food system in the face of climate change, utilize fewer and more locally available resources, empower farmers and create jobs.
Of 57 impoverished countries surveyed, for example, yields had increased by an average of nearly 80 percent when farmers used methods such as placing weed-eating ducks in rice patties in Bangladesh or planting desmodium, which repels insects, in Kenyan cornfields. These practices were also cost effective, locally available and resulted from farmers working to pass on this knowledge to each other in their communities.
While the report admits that agroecology can be more labor-intensive because of the complexity of knowledge required, it shows that this is usually a short-term issue. The report underscores that agroecology creates more jobs over the long term answering critics who argue that creating more jobs in agriculture is counter-productive. “Creation of employment in rural areas in developing countries, where underemployment is currently massive, and demographic growth remains high,” states the report, “may constitute an advantage rather than a liability and may slow down rural-urban migration.”
Mark Bittman put it aptly in his column on the UN report at the New York Times, saying:
Agro-ecology and related methods are going to require resources too, but they’re more in the form of labor, both intellectual—much research remains to be done—and physical: the world will need more farmers, and quite possibly less mechanization.
This is not the first time such a report has declared more productive ways to feed the world other than leaving that important task to large corporations. In April 2008, the IAASTD report (the International Assessment of Agricultural Knowledge, Science and Technology for Development)–which was supported by the World Bank, the UN Food & Agriculture Organization and the World Health Organization, among others, with the participation of over 60 world governments and 400 experts–found that not only would industrial food production not be able to feed the world in the long term, but the practices being employed are actually increasing hunger, exhausting resources and exacerbating climate change. However, the U.S., under the Bush Administration, was one of the countries that decided not to endorse the findings.
Though agroecological farming has benefits for industrialized countries too, both reports focus largely on what to do in the least-developed nations on the globe. The status quo for U.S. foreign policy in agriculture up until now has been to leverage our political muscle to force countries to except our subsidized crops, even if it meant destroying local agricultural economies. (Former President Bill Clinton apologized for this policy last year, saying that it has “failed everywhere it’s been tried,” and “we should have continued to work to make sure [Haiti] was self-sufficient in agriculture.”) Will the Obama Administration be more receptive to these findings and could there be a change in the way we work with other countries in our support for agriculture?
Looking back at this (proudly pro-business) administration’s follies in hiring a pesticide lobbyist as our Agricultural Trade Representative, maintaining the USDA in the confusing role of promoting and regulating agriculture, and focusing on “improved seeds,” which usually means funding for the development of genetically modified crops for poor countries and you might be discouraged.
But De Schutter argues that real change to improve the livelihoods of rural farmers requires governments to be on board. “States and donors have a key role to play here,” he said. “Private companies will not invest time and money in practices that cannot be rewarded by patents and which don’t open markets for chemical products or improved seeds.” In other words, feeding the worlds hungry should not be left to the market alone.
The report makes these specific recommendations for governing bodies:
- making reference to agroecology and sustainable agriculture in national strategies for the realization of the right to food and by including measures adopted in the agricultural sector in national adaptation plans of action (NAPAs) and in the list of nationally appropriate mitigation actions (NAMAs) adopted by countries in their efforts to mitigate climate change;
- reorienting public spending in agriculture by prioritizing the provision of public goods, such as extension services, rural infrastructures and agricultural research, and by building on the complementary strengths of seeds-and-breeds and agroecological methods, allocating resources to both, and exploring the synergies, such as linking fertilizer subsidies directly to agroecological investments on the farm (“subsidy to sustainability”);
- supporting decentralized participatory research and the dissemination of knowledge about the best sustainable agricultural practices by relying on existing farmers’ organizations and networks, and including schemes designed specifically for women;
- improving the ability of producers practicing sustainable agriculture to access markets, using instruments such as public procurement, credit, farmers’ markets, and creating a supportive trade and macroeconomic framework.
The report also gives recommendations for donors seeking to decrease hunger and improve rural livelihoods and for research organizations.
You can read the full report here [PDF]
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82 Comments so far
Show AllIronic, isn't it, that the way of the past is the way of the future.
You mean early death by disease, starvation and famine, all accompanied by cargo cult superstitions?
No thanks.
I've lost many friends to disease, some of which were due to the toxic environment in which we live.
Knock, knock, hello.
Starvation and famine is exactly what this article is trying to prevent.
Do you really think cult religion is a thing of the past?
"Starvation and famine is exactly what this article is trying to prevent."
Starvation and famine is what gave birth to the Green Revolution. "Organic" methods failed at large population sizes.
"Do you really think cult religion is a thing of the past?"
Of course not! It's alive & well in the Steiner-worshipping, homeopathic-water-drinking organics movement.
Christ on a Crutch:
RE: Starvation and famine is what gave birth to the Green Revolution. "Organic" methods failed at large population sizes.
The Green Revolution's mono-crops. synthetic fertilizers and their concomitant pesticides were a result of capitalist agriculture seeking to maximize profits. They couldn't care less about starving people. And neither do the neo-Malthusian capitalist apologists.
Of course, it's always an either/or issue for you converts: It couldn't possibly be the case that capitalist agriculture seeks to maximize profits AND to feed starving people, could it?
It's funny how, 60 years and several billion people later, the acolytes of Rudolph Steiner keep insisting on the same lies.
Not that I'm for such population increase: It's "The tragic story of human success," as William Catton puts it.
Hey, you're the one who started this attack on the article and its commenters.
The "green revolution" was started by chemical companies seeking profits. The "green revolution" included DDT.
The "green revolution" in the form of "american aid" turned countries that formerly had fed populations and surpluses to export, into countries with starving populations that had to import food. "Garden of the middle east" ring any bells for ya?
The "green revolution" hasn't solved world hunger. It just means that retail outlets close their doors on piles of food each night while millions in the world go hungry.
The "green revolution" has brought us pollution of our water, air and soil, and arguably more diseases in the form of cancers and immune system diseases.
>>The "green revolution" was started by chemical companies seeking profits. The "green revolution" included DDT.<<
No, it was started in Mexico, with dwarfing disease-resistant varieties of wheat that helped alleviate the suffering of millions of Mexicans.
DDT saved hundreds of millions of lives by killing malaria-bearing mosquitoes. It is non-toxic to humans in the doses used to kill insects.
>>The "green revolution" hasn't solved world hunger. It just means that retail outlets close their doors on piles of food each night while millions in the world go hungry.<<
Please explain how world population has managed to treble since the Green Revolution.
>>The "green revolution" has brought us pollution of our water, air and soil, and arguably more diseases in the form of cancers and immune system diseases.<<
No, it is increased population that has brought environmental degradation.
Your unsupported statement about cancers and immune system diseases is patently false. First, a generalized discussion of "cancers" is absurd because the word encompasses so many different diseases. Actual cancer rates (outside of those caused by smoking) have decreased. Let's just take colo-rectal cancers (directly related to food consumption) there is the following:
"Colorectal cancer incident rates have been decreasing for most of the past two decades etc".
http://www.cancer.org/acs/groups/content/@epidemiologysurveilance/documents/document/acspc-026238.pdf
Next time, do your homework before opening your mouth.
"DDT saved hundreds of millions of lives by killing malaria-bearing mosquitoes. It is non-toxic to humans in the doses used to kill insects."
Yeah, nothing like trading malaria for brain cancer, not to mention that mosquitos and malaria have not been wiped out. They become resistant to pesticides, as have bedbugs, which were thought wiped out in mid 20th century by DDT, and in the era of cheap jet travel have resurged in a far more long lived and pesticide resistant strain. Malaria comes from two things, the destruction of ecosystems, and the lack of proper housing and sanitation in cleared areas with screened porches. It is a social problem as much as a health problem, and all the DDT in the world won't stop it, no matter how much you believe in DDT.
"Please explain how world population has managed to treble since the Green Revolution."
Birth rates have dropped in affluent countries such as the US and those of western Europe. Birth rates are highest in poor countries, due to the lack of reliable contraception available to those who don't have access to affordable health care.
"No, it is increased population that has brought environmental degradation."
No, it is increased use of toxic chemicals, especially those used in agriculture, increased factory and automobile emissions. The countries with the highest birth rates do not have the worst environmental problems. Look it up.
"Actual cancer rates (outside of those caused by smoking) have decreased."
Even though you are such an expert on everything, you're wrong, and I forgot to mention reproductive issues themselves, which seem to occur in a very concentrated way among workers in conventional crop fields. It's been a long time since the American Cancer Society was interested in anything other than staying in business.
I don't know who you think you are, but your manner of speaking on this page makes me think in terms of "crap on a crust". Sorry, can't help it.
Hmm. Lots of claims, not a single source.
And paranoid enough to compete with the teabaggers!
You are a corporate shill, and lying douche bag.
Hey, I'm not going to spend my day looking up links that I've already read. If you really want the truth, you can find it yourself. It's out there, in spite of trolls like you.
How does a mono-crop growing, pesticide swilling, defender of the status quo, historical revisionist, pen-name "Chirst on a Crust" come to spend his (presumably not her) time as troll for Monsanto and Dupont, spewing incoherent vitriol all over the comments of this single article on Common Dreams?
Maybe it's God's will?
"Organic" methods failed at large population sizes."
Say what?
I find it remarkable that a report like this, one that is based on fact and research, is not shredded before it becomes public. It challenges the role of corporations in their catastrophic-but-profitable position of delivering food-for-profit-not-for-people to the world.
SEE THIS: http://www.dirtthemovie.org/
Watch the trailer, host a screening....
Get involved!
I don't think there is any one way to farm. Get out there and grow things. Experiment. Have fun. Expect good and bad things to happen. Enjoy the good. Learn from the bad. I grow lots of things, from gm foods to near organic vegetable methods.
Ahh, the first line of defense of GM stuff in related CD comment threads is back (like http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/02/23 ) Is this a change of tactics or do you not feel up to the task of arguing with the report? I mean, it does seem to contradict most of the arguments you make, and now you're all "let's all be friends". Maybe these aren't "ideas of the utmost impracticability" and maybe it's not true that "many (most, all?) [are] still unsustainable", as you claim, in basically every thread you post in.
Also, you conveniently (and I'm coming to the conclusion that not accidentally) forget that companies like Monsanto *do everything in their power* not to let biotech based agriculture coexist with traditional and especially organic. They change laws so that they can burn your crops and seeds if they don't own them. They sue farmers to turn them into biotech farmers. They destroy even the possibility of organic farming. They actively prohibit people from knowing what's in their food. Coexistence? Talk about coexistence to the people whose livelihoods (or lives, like in India) have been destroyed by their friendly neighbourhood Monsanto and expect to get a slap in the face ffs.
Coexistence that you pretend to be cheering on is actually impossible because of the companies you support. Goddamn hypocrite.
If you have an opinion, come right out and say it. Please don't beat around the bush.
Ok. I found your post disingenous and dishonest, it pissed me off and it makes me think that you're either dumb or a paid shill. The reason for this is that you pretend to be for coexistence while always supporting an industry that absolutely loaths it.
Funny how Greg R makes a perfectly reasonable comment and he's immediately slandered. What more evidence do we need that "organics" is an exclusionist cult?
Because, yes, as he says, everything is going to matter.
Just a word on the report (put together by a lawyer, by the way, not an agricultural scientist):
"Agroecology is both a science and a set of practices. It was created by the
convergence of two scientific disciplines: agronomy and ecology. As a science,
agroecology is the “application of ecological science to the study, design and management of sustainable agroecosystems. ”As a set of agricultural practices, agroecology seeks ways to enhance agricultural systems by mimicking natural processes, thus creating beneficial biological interactions and synergies among the components of the agroecosystem."
Nice-sounding loony tunes. Let's all just pretend that agriculture can be ecological.
"Mimicking natural processes" is exactly what GMO technologies do. But let's exclude them!
Agriculture is, BY DEFINITION, anti-ecology: it's the taking over of wild lands for human purposes. The natural ECOLOGICAL processes of "succession" must be continually interrupted so that the land does not revert back to its wild state.
Agriculture--conventional, "organic"--leads to population growth, period. This is patently unsustainable.
There is nothing wrong with those methods sanctified as "organic"--I practice some of them--but it is perfectly delusional to think that rejecting in toto whole sciences is going to solve the problem.
"Organic" farmers want everyone who doesn't abide by their ideology to disappear from the face of the earth.
As exmplified by the shrill rhetoric of Atomsk.
Oh and I'm not an organic farmer. I just read Greg R's posts here, and that it's him that says "let's all work together and use everything available" while the industry he supports and on which his livelihood seems to depend *makes this less and less possible* simply pissed me off. This would sound believable if it came from an organic farmer or even a conventional small farmer. But it is absolutely disingenous coming from someone who supports the industry that actively *destroys* choice in agriculture.
It's GM stuff that leaves no place for organic agriculture, not the other way around. Organic food cannot contaminate GM food. Organic farming poses no danger to GM farming. Organic products would benefit from labelling. And so on. WTF.
Inspite of the fact that I found your first comment (11:16am) to be off-putting in the extreme because it mimics the "it's either the status quo or it's the stone age" reasoning that any suggestion that things could be done differently is met with, I was prepared to take this comment seriously because I am not personally very worried about the effects of eating GM food and I find much of the anti-GM rhetoric shrill and uninformed. However, when I got to this I quit reading:
"Nice-sounding loony tunes. Let's all just pretend that agriculture can be ecological."
Calling an entire scientific discipline "loony tunes" while mischaracterizing its subject matter does little to enhance your credibility. While I may not be concerned about the health effects of eating GM foods, I am very concerned about the abuses of corporate power and the practices that Atomsk refers to in his first post are among the worst.
Atomsk's concerns are valid. Address them or expect to be ignored.
Quote: >>Inspite of the fact that I found your first comment (11:16am) to be off-putting in the extreme because it mimics the "it's either the status quo or it's the stone age"<<
Well, no, I didn't say that. Please stop putting words in my mouth.
What I said was, "everything is going to matter" and "There is nothing wrong with those methods sanctified as "organic"--I practice some of them."
Fundamentalists tend to misread any criticism as persecution.
Sorry but this quote is very easy to "misinterpret":
"You mean early death by disease, starvation and famine, all accompanied by cargo cult superstitions?" And of course your constant implicit claims that you alone stand for science, and others are "rejecting in toto whole sciences". So yeah, despite the tokenist "I practice some of them" stuff, there's a pretty good reason people come to this conclusion about you.
While I can't speak for all organic gardeners, my guess is they think toxics are toxic, as in, you know, poison, bio-cidal.
Gardening is completely natural. Many animals do it. Some practice animal husbandry.
GMO technology does not mimic Nature, it mocks it.
"While I can't speak for all organic gardeners, my guess is they think toxics are toxic, as in, you know, poison, bio-cidal."
You mean like aflatoxin, from natural fungi? E. coli? Glycoalkyloids? All naturally-occurring in "organic" food.
Tell organic farmers that "toxics are toxic." They regularly use pyrethrum, copper sulphate, and rotenone.
"GMO technology does not mimic Nature, it mocks it."
That's your opinion. Golden Rice, the recovered papaya plantations of Hawai'i, the C-5 resistant plums of Pennsylvania, vaccines, GM insulin, are not mockeries.
You keep speaking for organic gardeners, though sound like non I've ever met.
Yes, that is my opinion. In Nature, living organisms chose their coarse of procreation. Frogs don't mate with grain. Forgive me, but I trust Nature more than you.
Here, I'll save Crusty the bother.
(note constant quoting of posters so's you'll take it personal)
"You keep speaking for organic gardeners, though sound like non I've ever met. "
But I once read that some guy used that stuff and called himself an organic gardener. They even have the law in their back pocket.
"Forgive me, but I trust Nature more than you."
That's your loss dude. I know way more than Nature. Just think of the energy savings if we could grow trees that glowed in the dark. Streetlights would be a thing of the past. The flashlight batteries saved during coon hunting would make it worth it by itself.
You must be kidding. Golden Rice has never even gone into production. It's a fake poster child and a pipe dream, and even if it did go into production you'd have to eat five bowls of it a day to get the nutrient needed to prevent blindness. People who go blind from malnutrition need food, not biotech seed. Normal amounts of protein, natural rice and vegetables would prevent blindness from malnutrition. People who have no money can't buy food, and people with no land can't grow food. Hunger in the world is about politics.
As for the recovered papaya plantations, I read that the gmo papaya no longer had the original pox, but broke out in other spots and diseases, unexpectedly.
Besides, if they were labeled, practically nobody would buy gmo foods, which is why your industry spends so much money buying politicians to fight labeling.
"you'd have to eat five bowls of it a day to get the nutrient needed to prevent blindness."
You're repeating watered-down version of a ten-year-old lie:
"Michael Pollan, in a New York Times Magazine article, cited a figure that appears to have come from Greenpeace's propaganda: 'An 11-year-old would have to eat 15 pounds of cooked rice a day--quite a bowlful--to satisfy his minimum daily requirement of Vitamin A.' Yet this figure is merely conjecture. Robert Russell, a nutritionist at Tufts University and a specialist in Vitamin A nutrition, has calculated a figure of 200 grams a day--7 ounces--or two ... bowls full..."
from "Mendel In the Kitchen."
People here comment without having done a lick of research. They just repeat propaganda.
You are a corporate shill, and a lying douche bag.
I repeat: Golden rice has never been put into production, and even if it were, Monsanto isn't going to grow it to give to starving populations. Monsanto is a for-profit corporation.
I had to log on to say that "Christ on a Crust" comes across as a paid company hack. and an idiot. I wonder how much a person has to get paid to spout out such drivel in public. My guess is they know in the back of there minds what BS they are spouting, but its ok cause the money is so good, or something.
GMO's mimic natural processes? Pleeeeease.... ever see a fish get it on with a tomato and produce offspring?
<<"Christ on a Crust" comes across as a paid company hack. and an idiot. >>
Of course this is what you believe. It's what all converts to the "organics" religion believe of those who criticize them: "It's a conspiracy!!"
"ever see a fish get it on with a tomato and produce offspring?"
This shows the depth of your understanding of molecular breeding techniques.
Perhaps you're referring to Pam Dunsmuir's experiment in the 1990s?
"The mutant tomato-fish is nothing more than an urban legend. ... The tomato with the fish gene never made it out of the lab. Although the gene itself worked properly--it produced the same protein in the tomato that it did in the fish--the protein did not have the desired effect, which was to protect the tomato plant from frost in the field and the tomato from cold damage on the way to the market...."
Source: "Mendel In the Kitchen."
Tell me, kauaiblake, why do people like you continue to spread lies, more than ten years after they've been debunked?
And how the fuck is it relevant that the tomato "never got out of the lab" to the question of whether the process of its creation was natural? Or do you just prefer demagogic bullshit to actual arguments? Where exactly did he lie? Afaics, the tomato existed and the way it was created was technological, not natural.
Please look at the quotation I responded to:
"ever see a fish get it on with a tomato and produce offspring?"
There was no such thing.
Cross-species gene transfer IS a natural phenomenon. See "Agrobacterium tumefasciens."
The issue of "natural/unnatural" is a fallacy.
Botulism is 100% natural.
Internet comments spouting the word "fuck" and "shit" across thousands of miles in milliseconds, is 100% unnatural.
And rude.
Except there was, it just didn't get out of the laboratory because it didn't work as expected? At least that was the impression I got from the book you mentioned. And yep, cross species gene transfer happens, although I'm not really that sure that it happens too often between animals and plants, and that it happens in the way technology is doing it.
For the purists describing life in pure nature, that's an interesting intellectual exercise and has some value for that reason. But what is this person really wearing? How is this person living? On this question, see Wendell Berry's chapter in The Unsettling of Agriculture: "The Ecological Crisis as a Crisis of Agriculture." In the real world we live by agriculture, he argues, and attempts to deny that are ill informed. A good illustration of what Wendell Berry criticizes there is seen at the end of the film, KIng Corn, when they take an acre of corn, plant it to grass, and play on it. See also the their DVD extras, their spoof on the history of agriculture. Compare Berry, and Mumford, below.
Most GMOs are developed as individual interventions on farms, not as part of ecological systems. They therefore violate the science of ecology and are, to this extent, unscientific. Sure, within a narrow framework, the work can be called scientific, but not when it's broadly understood in this way.
Related to all of this is the question of the emergence of agriculture into human history. This is often described as bad for the environment, and the evidence for this is often related to how civilizations used grains. An example is the new book, Empires of Food. What's missing in the analysis, in almost every case, is the distinction between the agricultural revolution and the urban revolution. Typically farmers (small scaled, in villages, with great diversity in practices all around the world) are blamed for the urban revolution, with power civilizations exploiting peasants in villages, cutting down forests, etc. These were very different cultures, with very different gods (ie organic gods vs sky gods). Lewis Mumford's short analysis of this in Transformations of Man can supplement Berry. But cf. Mumford, The Myth of the Machine, v. 1, Technics and Human Development. I've written about this further, with footnotes, in a blog, "The Culture of Corn Farming: Two Paradigms." With Mumford, I see GMO as "authoritarian technics." I have not yet posted my extended review of Empires of Food (6,000 words), except for a very brief piece in the NFFC newsletter, nffc.net. I haven't had time to finish and edit it.
Extremely nice post, with very well made points:
"Most GMOs are developed as individual interventions on farms, not as part of ecological systems. They therefore violate the science of ecology and are, to this extent, unscientific. Sure, within a narrow framework, the work can be called scientific, but not when it's broadly understood in this way."
So well said. What's the address of your blog?
"Most GMOs are developed as individual interventions on farms, not as part of ecological systems. They therefore violate the science of ecology and are, to this extent, unscientific."
Oh. I see.
So what ecological system is brussels sprouts a part of? How about carrots? Sweet corn?
Hello, hello?
C.C.
You said, "Mimicking natural processes" is exactly what GMO technologies do. But let's exclude them!" This glib sentence would be true if Mother nature got drunk and mistakenly combined fish genes with tomatoes, or chicken genes with potatoes.
Those who HATE nature, and intend to impose a MAN MADE conscripted format onto the natural world (and all LIVING BEINGS therein) are taking apart what took eons to LOVINGLY assemble. This folly, founded on hubris and greed is the equivalent of a serial killer raping nature, seed bank by seed bank.
That is NOT natural. And bio-tech is not natural pollination in any way, shape, or form.
I find your scream name disgusting, by the way.
ATOM & STIV: Thank you. These shills are repugnant, and they follow the Carl Rove playbook by using "facts" to suit THEIR occasion. Their theses reflect ZERO percent morality or respect for life and living systems.
"Those who HATE nature...."
That's right: those who spend the better part of their lives in colleges, graduate schools, and laboratories studying plant pathology and genetics and microbiology do it because they HATE nature.
What a miserable view of the world you have.
The world of scientists, and science itself, which you alone seem to stand for, is probably really thankful for all your support.
"Shrill rhetoric" is, sadly, how many on this site communicate with one another. This is offputting to the folks who, if communicated with thusly (and called things like "sheeple" and told how stupid they are), might be persuaded if people on this site and similarsuch venues could learn how to courteously "agree to disagree."
SHUT UP!
That's actually a great interpretation of what the poster said, because "agreeing to disagree" effectively means accepting the status quo, which is absolutely not balanced and is leaning in favour of industrialised agriculture. So if one "agrees to disagree", they're in fact shutting up.
In addition to this, there's only one reality which doesn't depend on opinions, and if there's an important issue on which your opinion is the opposite of the common opinion, and since the future of human life on earth depends on one or another of these opinions being right (both cannot be, because we don't believe in fairy tale makebelieve unicorn world) and being acted upon, "agreeing to disagree" is simply the stupidest thing to do.
Third, this is a discussion, a debate, an argument. In a discussion, if you take the other person's opinion seriously, and want to debate it in earnest, you won't "agree to disagree". You might agree that you don't have enough information, but if you "agree to disagree", you either think the other side is an idiot that's not worth arguing with, or you have no concept of what an actual argument involves.
So overal, I absolutely hate this "agreeing to disagree" and "civility" crap. It's about preferring style over substance (explicitly), disregarding truth and reality in favour of "respecting" thought systems and opinion. It's just another manifestation of the culture of manipulation which simply doesn't believe in reality. If people are passionate about important stuff and use strong words or even abuses etc, it's normal. If one claims that they can't continue a debate because of its style, they're obviously more interested in not being hurt or offended than in the actual truth. There are lots of things that you need for a debate, but nice words and "agreeing to disagree" aren't one of them. There is a real issue here, it's one of the most important issues ever, and "agreeing to disagree" just means ignoring it.
Mind, this doesn't mean there aren't different opinions and systems of values and tastes. For example, some people might prefer a world whose structure is more loosely coupled, with more independence, locality, democracy; while others may like a centralised, authoritarian, power-concentrating structure better. Preferences also can also be discussed (you might think you prefer one thing when you actually don't), and "agreeing to disagree" might work in that case (although the words would be misplaced in this case, because you can't "disagree" or "agree" with a taste or a preference, you might share it or not; you might disagree on its probably consequences and effects though).
But the question whether the goal of industrial agriculture is to "feed the world" or not etc etc can be operationalised and objectively debated to a large extent. And being nice and civil is very much a more or less irrelevant secondary issue in this case.
""Organic" farmers want everyone who doesn't abide by their ideology to disappear from the face of the earth."
Oh please. Because of course it's chemical based farming that's being driven out and made impossible by organic farmers, and not the exact opposite? What the hell are you talking about? Is it organic and traditional farmers sueing Roundup users for contaminating their fields or the other way round? Is it organic farmers who want no labeling on GM food or the other way round? Isn't it chemical based farming that makes certified organic farming less and less possible? Where do you get the fucking courage to spout bullshit like this?
It's completely clear that industrial chemical based farming absolutely wants to dominate more conventional and organic types, and excuse me for being pissed off by hypocrites who pretend it is the other way around and start to bullshit about "trying different things", while it's the companies they support that make that more and more impossible, through patent rules, loan practices and so on. It's really incredibly infuriating to see the people who actually have power behind them whine as if they were the ones being fucked.
I mean, no matter how I look, there's just incredible top down pressure for industrial agriculture and against small scale, conventional and organic types. It's so obvious that I just find it really hard to believe that there are real people who believe it's actually the other way around. It's obnoxious and infuriating, whether it's honest or not.
As for the rest of the claims, wow. First, GMO technologies do not mimick natural processes, unless you think that gene guns, for example, have a parallel in nature. Or if you think most natural processes include the indiscriminate destruction of all diversity on large patches of land. List could go on and on and on of course.
Second, there's a difference between not being sustainable in the long run (which is hundreds to thousands of years), and in the short run, which could mean decades or even just years (you know, superweeds, sharply increasing chemical input needs etc). I mean, wtf. They're just not in the same goddamn league ffs. There have been territories cultivated for thousands of years, while chemical based agriculture can fuck stuff up in a couple of decades.
And of course noone's rejecting "a whole science", again, that's just another pretty disgusting rhetorical trick - that someone who doesn't believe in the immediate and total application of biotechnology to everything possible is rejecting "science" is just not true. And of course quite a few actual scientists have "rejected biotechnology" to the same extent that I do, like, for example, the people who actually should have overseen its industrial application in the FDA. Biotechnology, btw, is not science, it's technology - it's based on science, but it's an application of science, ie. full of human choice, not a more or less clear (as much as possible with human beings) reflection of reality.
Just to make it clear: if you guys, ie. GMO farmers and the institutions behind them, fuck up, and there's more and more reason to think that that's exactly what you're doing, from rising chemical inputs to superweeds, it'll be a fuckup for everyone in the entire world, and there will be no new territories to conquer and colonise and try new stuff.
Well said, Atomsk!!
btw - I know a guy named Atom who farms in the New Mexico region. Is that you by chance?
"Organic" dogma rejects science.
It's based in part on the incredibly ignorant superstitions of Steiner.
It recommends the use of "homeopathic" remedies for livestock.
"Organic" dogma rejects gene-splicing, molecular breeding methods.
It rejects the key role dose plays in toxicity. It ignores the idea of hormesis.
It subscribes to the unscientific "naturalistic fallacy."