The March of Folly, Continued

What happens among policymakers is a "process of self-hypnosis," Tuchman writes. After recounting examples from the Trojan War to the British moves against rebellious American colonists, she devotes the closing chapters of "The March of Folly" to the long arc of the U.S. war in Vietnam. The parallels with the current escalation of the war in Afghanistan are more than uncanny; they speak of deeply rooted patterns.
With clarity facing backward, President Obama can make many wise comments about international affairs while proceeding with actual policies largely unfettered by the wisdom. From the outset of U.S. involvement in Vietnam, Tuchman observes, vital lessons were "stated" but "not learned."
As with John Kennedy -- another young president whose administration "came into office equipped with brain power" and "more pragmatism than ideology" -- Obama's policy adrenalin is now surging to engorge something called counterinsurgency.
"Although the doctrine emphasized political measures, counterinsurgency in practice was military," Tuchman writes, an observation that applies all too well to the emerging Obama enthusiasm for counterinsurgency. And "counterinsurgency in operation did not live up to the high-minded zeal of the theory. All the talk was of ‘winning the allegiance' of the people to their government, but a government for which allegiance had to be won by outsiders was not a good gamble."
Now, as during the escalation of the Vietnam War -- despite all the front-paged articles and news bulletins emphasizing line items for civic aid from Washington -- the spending for U.S. warfare in Afghanistan is overwhelmingly military.
Perhaps overeager to assume that the context of bombing campaigns ordered by President Obama is humanitarian purpose, many Americans of antiwar inclinations have yet to come to terms with central realities of the war effort -- for instance, the destructive trajectory of the budgeting for the war, which spends 10 dollars toward destruction for every dollar spent on humanitarian programs.
From the top of the current administration -- as the U.S. troop deployments in Afghanistan continue to rise along with the American air-strike rates -- there is consistent messaging about the need to "stay the course," even while bypassing such tainted phrases.
The dynamic that Tuchman describes as operative in the first years of the 1960s, while the Vietnam War gained momentum, is no less relevant today: "For the ruler it is easier, once he has entered a policy box, to stay inside. For the lesser official it is better, for the sake of his position, not to make waves, not to press evidence that the chief will find painful to accept. Psychologists call the process of screening out discordant information ‘cognitive dissonance,' an academic disguise for ‘Don't confuse me with the facts.'" Along the way, cognitive dissonance "causes alternatives to be ‘deselected since even thinking about them entails conflicts.'"
Such a psycho-political process inside the White House has no use for the report from the Congressional Progressive Caucus that came out of the caucus's six-part forum on Capitol Hill this spring, "Afghanistan: A Road Map for Progress."
Souped up and devouring fuel, the war train cannot slow down for the Progressive Caucus report's recommendation that "an 80-20 ratio (political-military) should be the formula for funding our efforts in the region with oversight by a special inspector general to ensure compliance." Or that "U.S. troop presence in the region must be oriented toward training and support roles for Afghan security forces and not for U.S.-led counterinsurgency efforts."
Or that "the immediate cessation of drone attacks should be required." Or that "all aid dollars should be required to have a majority percentage of dollars tied or guaranteed to local Afghan institutions and organizations, to ensure countrywide job mapping, assessment and workforce development process to directly benefit the Afghan people."
The policymakers who are gunning the war train can't be bothered with such ideas. After all, if the solution is -- rhetoric aside -- assumed to be largely military, why dilute the potency of the solution? Especially when, as we're repeatedly made to understand, there's so much at stake.
During the mid-1960s, while American troops poured into Vietnam, "enormity of the stakes was the new self-hypnosis," Tuchman comments. She quotes the wisdom -- conventional and self-evident -- of New York Times military correspondent Hanson Baldwin, who wrote in 1966 that U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam would bring "political, psychological and military catastrophe," signaling that the United States "had decided to abdicate as a great power."
Many Americans are eager to think of our nation as supremely civilized even in warfare; the conceits of noble self-restraint have been trumpeted by many a president even while the Pentagon's carnage apparatus kept spinning into overdrive. "Limited war is not nicer or kinder or more just than all-out war, as its proponents would have it," Tuchman notes. "It kills with the same finality."
For a president, with so much military power under his command, frustrations call for more of the same. The seductive allure of counterinsurgency is apt to heighten the appeal of "warnography" for the commander in chief; whatever the earlier resolve to maintain restraint, the ineffectiveness of more violence invites still more -- in Afghanistan and Pakistan, as in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
"The American mentality counted on superior might," Tuchman commented, "but a tank cannot disperse wasps." In Vietnam, the independent journalist Michael Herr wrote, the U.S. military's violent capacities were awesome: "Our machine was devastating. And versatile. It could do everything but stop."
And that is true, routinely, of a war-making administration.
The grim and ultimately unhinged process that Barbara Tuchman charts is in evidence with President Obama and his approach to the Afghan war: "In its first stage, mental standstill fixes the principles and boundaries governing a political problem. In the second stage, when dissonances and failing function begin to appear, the initial principles rigidify. This is the period when, if wisdom were operative, re-examination and re-thinking and a change of course are possible, but they are rare as rubies in a backyard. Rigidifying leads to increase of investment and the need to protect egos; policy founded upon error multiplies, never retreats. The greater the investment and the more involved in it the sponsor's ego, the more unacceptable is disengagement."
A week ago, one out of seven members of the House of Representatives voted against a supplemental appropriations bill providing $81.3 billion to the Pentagon, mainly for warfare in Iraq and Afghanistan. An opponent of the funding, Congressman John Conyers, pointed out that "the president has not challenged our most pervasive and dangerous national hubris: the foolhardy belief that we can erect the foundations of civil society through the judicious use of our many high-tech instruments of violence."
Conyers continued: "That belief, promoted by the previous administration in the wake of the terrorist attacks of September 11, assumes that the United States possesses the capacity and also has a duty to determine the fate of nations in the greater Middle East.
"I oppose this supplemental war funding bill because I believe that we are not bound by such a duty. In fact, I believe the policies of empire are counterproductive in our struggle against the forces of radical religious extremism. For example, U.S. strikes from unmanned Predator Drones and other aircraft produced 64 percent of all civilian deaths caused by the U.S., NATO and Afghan forces in 2008. Just this week, U.S. air strikes took another 100 lives, according to Afghan officials on the ground. If it is our goal to strengthen the average Afghan or Pakistani citizen and to weaken the radicals that threaten stability in the region, bombing villages is clearly counterproductive. For every family broken apart by an incident of ‘collateral damage,' seeds of hate and enmity are sown against our nation. . . .
"Should we support this measure, we risk dooming our nation to a fate similar to Sisyphus and his boulder: to being trapped in a stalemate of unending frustration and misery, as our mistakes inevitably lead us to the same failed outcomes. Let us step back; let us remember the mistakes and heartbreak of our recent misadventures in the streets of Fallujah and Baghdad. If we honor the ties that bind us to one another, we cannot in good faith send our fellow citizens on this errand of folly. It is still not too late to turn away from this path."
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78 Comments so far
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WAR is the enemy.
And don't confuse the terms "America" and "Military-Industrial-Corporate-Complex war machine.
Read Chomsky, Zinn, Hartmann, Perkins, Korten, Klein, and (Chalmers) Johnson for starters.
earthlingenterprises(dot)com
Not a good article, despite the flood of ideas, which are all over the map.
I haven't read the book, but it seems Tuchman is trying to apply a few psychological concepts to understand political decision making. When the focus hones down into looking at a single personality, like Obama, this kind of analysis can't see the forest for the tree.
What's missing is an analysis of institutional pressures. Despite what Obama says, he doesn't make all of the decisions. The Pentagon has its view of the world. The oil companies have theirs, and so on.
Quite a few are smitten by personality, so a psychological analysis of leaders has its appeal, maybe. They vote based on Obama's projected charisma, rather than look at his plans, which have always been escalating the wars in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Unfortunately, Obama is part of team capital, financed by Wall Street banksters. Their view of the world is open markets and free flow of oil (and blood). Economic shock doctrine is their discipline.
For some time, team capital has looked abroad. Now, the screws are being tightened at home. Obama does what he does because of institutional pressures. That's really all you need to know.
-TIA
Some comments worth reading, but most are a waste of time. Evidence that there are still plenty of fools ready to march when the drums beat.
Paranoid delusion is drawn to power, but pre-exists it. Of course, that IS a problem with power.
Let's not paint the Kennedys as progressives. Alright, JFK was a smidge left of Nixon. O's a smidge left of Bush, so I see the comparison. But these are just two ways of extending empire, and you finally have to kill people or allow them part of the planet.
These guys start as imperialists, and they continue as imperialists.
Norman baby,
You blew it big time with this lame article that your best supporting statements come from the likes of B. Tuchman and John Conyers. The former a self trained popular historian feeding pablum and the latter, Conyers a complete sellout on every decent thing he signed up to do.
Don't get me wrong I have enjoyed both of these people and previous and current efforts. I am just sick to death of the 'intellectualization' of the current state of affairs and the constant repetition of 'disaster in the commonwealth' and not a a solution in sight. I can show the responses of my representatives, when they care to, to my petitioning. There is no representation. If we compare each other's letters it would put us all in the same asylum.
Your children belong to the corporations. Just like you did.
How come our greatest historians are women?
Sexist babble.
What happens among the people is a "process of self-hypnosis" to avoid the unbearable, otherwise people would be able to look behind the curtain:
Read ‘Collateral Damage’ part I and II
*** www.scribd.com/people/documents/2169400-ep-heidner ***
We are witnessing the deliberate expansion of our empire.
It's working.
I fail to what isn't going according to (their) plan.
They don't even have to deal with a concerned populace like back in Vietnam.
The only problem they had was that Bush was unpopular.
Enter Obama: problem solved.
The success of our rulers is certainly our folly, but keep in mind, they don't care about us.
“We, with undue deference and lethal restraint,
…pay our respects to the dominant moral torpor to such an extent that mass slaughter becomes normalized in our names” -- Norman Solomon
I come to peace with your sour dismemberment
in the name of my god and a deep belief
that the last lilies of Easter or the effluent smeared
around my door posts somehow save me
from the horrible numbers of names of your families,
the running scourges of pinprick bombs that
riddle your villages with acid burn, clear through
to the bone. Normal, this blindness
when my anger is not saved for those who plunder
with excesses and make my freedom food less palatable
with your marrow and create a single road to liberty
lined with the shattered trees of Nagasaki,
Dresden’s basements of skulls, Cambodia’s silent wide graves,
the keening ghosts over Sand River;
the way the most religious among us bless the rape
of others’ children: roses in our only garden of genius
blown apart because we cannot afford to have the conversations
required by what we say we believe in
because we cannot afford to lift
the boulders of our bloody intransigence. What rivers
we must risk our breath crossing
as deep against our chests as they can rise
we have refused to swim through and instead build our boats
from the fingers and ribs of your sacred animals
your saints and your poets. Dead now, all dead,
slid down the garbled unholy allegiances into the holes
of our superiority, our willingness
to doom you, your women and your boys
into the abscesses of our rotten denials
and our money, our money, our money, our
goddamned money: The rich have gathered
I have heard, after they have taken the finite food
from the mouths of the babies of Darfur
and Sri Lanka and the deep valleys where the poor pour
when our unmanned drones, our unmanned
human lawn mowers spill them into a chaos of the valleys
bewildered with loss. No Oprah or Gates or the other
sacred brown presidents of our new world order can fathom this
having never been that deep… and believing, yes convinced
they have something worth gutting the children of Pakistan for.
And yes, these nation less miscreants that we
have birthed through our secret campaigns
in the deserts over the coveted oil
deserve not much better… but (and here it is right to tear
our clothes and slice our scalps, dramatic or not) it is the unrelated
genius of the people who have been given no choice
that we slaughter
with the incredibly evil sewer soul of our murderous inventions.
Throw down those arrows! Press forward
with the shields of our pounding blasts of grief!
Tear open the atmosphere and smash the unmanned drones
of the enemy within us and then, even without love
shun and walk mighty in our tears against any
who would have us forget that when we kill another
we kill son and daughter, beloved bed mate
beloved mother.
***
Chorus:
It is quiet in the world without the living
It is quiet in the world without the songs
It is quiet in the world
when the drones no longer
have a body to glean
All the Buddhas slip from their mountains
Krishna butchered beneath his chariot
Rumi runs bloodied into his mass grave
Maimonides buried alive with his whole family
Beloved John left without his limbs or eyes
full of crows
in the valley of the shadow of the leftover bones
It is quiet in the world without the living
It is quiet in the world without the songs.
Sioux Rose
BOB V: This is a masterpiece. Wow. I am going to print it and display it in my little office. You have a gift for telling the tragic story of our times. I am clapping, sir.
Thanks! Post it or send it anywhere you wish... my gift. Just name me when you do, Bob Vance. Thanks again. Solomon's sentence, the title of the poem, moved me in truth.
Brilliant sentient cathartic poetic full-spectrum acceptance/&/resistance of empire...
I look forward to your future posts...
Thank you
President Obama outlined his plans to increase troop presence in Aghanistan on his Change.gov site. It was there for all of us to read, along with points regarding increasing the army and navy and the use of drones to "expand our global reach."
We must take candidates seriously when they demonstrate via their voting record and campaign platforms that they plan to proceed on the path of military expansionism.
Americans concerned with a new path have to get organized and demand real electoral reform, and place into office parties and candidates who understand the consequences of placing corporate profit and empire before people and our environment. New leaders who are ready to proceed on a sustainable, humane path are what we need.
Nice article Mr. Soloman. To bad you supported Mr. Obama for election.
You, as a member of the ruling elite, are very smart in taking many sides of an issue reserving your "credibility."
Some of us have caught on to your tricks.
BHO, LBJ. They both kind of trip off the tongue, don't they?
Obama's choices:
1. Leave AfPak and let Osama off the hook, give Repugs lots of ammunition and lose the next election.
2. Get Osama and be a hero, leave AfPak and win the next election.
But see this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/world/asia/21kabul.html?hp
Perhaps the U.S. will try to talk its way out of Afghanistan. That would be one way to do it, but I have my doubts that it will come to pass.
Flitcraft May 21st, 2009 3:56 pm..............Be careful..CD has figured a way to cut off links like you posted. You have to go back and put it on two lines......
Considering the Soviet experience in Afghanistan, I am wondering whether the U.S. has the resources to accomplish whatever it is that it wants to accomplish in Afghanistan. How many soldiers would the U.S. have to put there in order to get that difficult land under control? Further, if it got close to accomplishing that, what would other countries in the area do? Nothing good can come of this.
This was an excellent offering by Mr. Solomon.
It leads one to consider the intricacy of the human challenge we face.
Time to break down the boulder that our singular leaders roll up the hill in a sickening cycle of climb and fall in arrogance and hubris. Time to let that power return to correct proportion as a grain of sand to all which only the people together may carry with ease, each little part their sacred due. Finally we will then push beyond the crest of our fate and destiny to be reborn again as human, and start our march of freedom.
Oregoncharles
"President Obama can make many wise comments about international affairs while proceeding with actual policies largely unfettered by the wisdom."
But that's the MO of the empire's "leaders!" They're not making mistakes, they're fooling the people, most of the time! It's their job, while the money and power go into the hands of a very few.
I've been watching Obama work the streets. He's good! Snookered just about everyone I know. He's doing the job he was paid to do. Get over it. And if you've got a mind to take power away from the powerful, always remember what a Bush official once told Ron Suskind:
"That's not the way the world works anymore. We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
Now, about that fire .......
Arundhati Roy said (essentially): Why play their game, where they make all the rules and have all the power? Why not find and use our own power, and force them to play by our rules?
(she didn't say it would be a cake walk)
Sioux Rose
OREGON: Right on. By the way, Ms. Roy was borrowing from 2 sources: Jesus, when he recommended casting the net to the other side, a powerful metaphysical precept. And The World Social Forum in their efforts to build new paths to purpose, promise & possibility. Indeed, Another World IS Possible. RTDRURY often sharing ways to create (or integrate) that strategy on a local level adds much to this forum.
Our wars are 19th century affairs, when nations with surpluses of wealth and manpower waged wars in order to get dominance over other nations. Driven by nationalism, arrogance, and ignorance. Someone should notice that this is no longer the 19th century, should notice that we no longer have surpluses. Time is up. Our world is melting. We have better things to do with what wealth and manpower we have. I sometimes hope that a polar ice shelf would break off and raise the sea level two feet at a go, or that all of a bird species would suddenly drop dead strewing corpses on everyone's street, or US unemployment would go to 40%. We need some event that people would notice and cause them to say, "Hey, why are we wasting our resources and our lives on war?"
Barbara Tuchman is an historian. Some future historian, probably Chinese, will look back at us and write, "During the Bush and Obama administrations, the US suspended its Constitution in order to devote all of its resources to destroying cities and societies in the land between Egypt and India. No one knows why. Afterwards, the US became a failed state and collapsed into the chaos of poverty, disease, and drought."
"Our wars are 19th century affairs, when nations with surpluses of wealth and manpower waged wars in order to get dominance over other nations. Driven by nationalism, arrogance, and ignorance."
Serious, you sum it all up very well but... Your country is consumed with the notion of dominance and superpower-dom. Ignorance is the biggest problem, nationalism is a product of ignorance and arrogance is a product of both.
Americans should be very wary about their own death machine turning on themselves. Government after Government has proven time and time again it is very capable of silencing the outspoken or anyone with ideas they don't like.
The rest of the world looks to the US with a bitter taste in it's mouth. As a nation, she has much to answer for. As a people, YOU all have a responsibility to do SOMETHING about this pattern of death and destruction.
The lifestyles that Americans and the western world at large have enjoyed for the last 60 years are mainly due to the unabated plunder of the third world. This cannot continue and wont. We are at a point now where the elite know this and are busy planning YOUR demise.
The window of opertunity is now and time is short. For if inaction persists the USA will be no more is short order and the public will be the ones to suffer, not just American but the whole world.
Good luck America, your going to need it.
Clubconnecter
Sioux Rose
SERIOUS citizen: I am half-way through an interesting book, "The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes" written by Richard Firestone and two other authors. The first half of this work analyzes fossil samples in various portions of N. America, also utilizing radiation dating and Xrays. The second part examines the oral traditions of many Indigenous tribes across the world.
What intrigues me is that the oral traditions center on the idea that when human beings turn to abject evil, highly destructive weather events emerge. This concept is seen in the Bible as the reason for the Great Flood, and it's also intimated with respect to the legend of Atlantis and why that civilization was sunk beneath the waves. It is the dominant teaching of the Hindu spiritual teacher, Yogananda, and part of a powerful lecture he offered at the United Nations in l949.
Science is very good at establishing certain relationships among things, but it seldom catches the subtle ones, the mystical/spiritual associations. The continued focus on Mars, militarism, violence, destruction, and the inexcusable destruction of ordinary citizens in other lands is a veritable GUARANTEE that violence will return to our shores.
As for the idea of cognitive dissonance explaining why presidents don't seem to see the folly of their ways, I think it's more that Western civilization has been so influenced by the archetype of Mars, warrior, that its seduction of otherwise thoughtful minds is underestimated.
Key words for Mars rules: Winning (a war), "We're number 1!", acting from the head rather than heart, attraction to absolute power (and its penchant for corrupting absolutely), macho rites and seeing women as 2nd class citizens, and men who don't pony up to adapt to the Mars worldview of militarism as dominant modus operandi, gain the painful stigmas of being sissies, girlie men, etc.
Worship of HALF the force creates the dangerous asymmetry that has thrown nations off course, our own rushing madly for the cosmic cliffs. Mars will brook no intervention, only his way is the right way, and thus his blindness sets up his downfall as much as Oedipus' fate was written and inescapable.
I have been wondering alot lately about the purpose of human life and awareness...
Could it be that the ultimate learning is to eschew our ability to manipulate our world, and to return to the simple life of the animal world, grateful for the treasure of a garden-planet we have been given the opportunity to enjoy, and responsible for seeing that the conditions suited to the myriad animals and plants here remain virginal...this planet has actually loaned to us the very molecules that make up our very bodies, and exchanges new ones with us via every breath, every drink, and every meal...
What if we have been given the ability to think reflectively as a challenge to see if we can overcome our own desires, choosing instead to worship the vastly diverse and mutually reinforcing web of life itself, as surrounds us on this unique world? Being born here, into a body made of this very soil, would we not find all we need to survive here, without the need to alter?
Sioux Rose
DUBET: I believe you've served as a tribal shaman in another incarnation, and you retain a very sensual connection with the land. Your posts speak of freedom to be sensual and connect with earth and these preferences are resonant with Venus. She arrives first as Taurus, the earth mother principle (or Gaia), and next as Libra, the marriage/justice/law principle, and is exalted in Pisces where those who can transcend their egos are treated to the amazing grace of communion with their beloved, the higher love. There may always be the human being's need to wrestle with ego. The entire upper Arcanum of the tarot speaks of this battle between the lower nature and the higher, spiritual self. It is the journey EVERY human being takes on when embodied in flesh. We are all at different points in our evolution, but the "arrival" is witnessed by and through balance. We can no more snuff out Mars then we can remove our first chakra, delete the very premise of individuality. The key is to integrate that self and sense of self into a larger harmonic order where respect for all the things you mention, the amazing grace found in simple pleasures is once more honored for the gift that it is.
I try to live that way, but granted, I am temperamental (like most artist types). We had no rain for weeks and now it's been pouring for days... however, my gardenias are in full bloom and their fragrance transports me to heaven when I inhale. Life can be so good... had not the mighty decided to turn tribe against tribe and then make a personal fortune on arming each for no sane purpose other than the satisfaction of their own greed. This pattern is now at critical mass, and in my view = the anti-Christ.
It is odd to think that those who so rabidly destroy the natural environs of this world have, apparently, absolutely no awareness of their utter dependency upon it...do they think they will somehow, uniquely, escape the global consequences we all must face?
For good or ill, I agree with you that the years immediately ahead will certainly be influential, perhaps decisive, as will the choices we make during...oh, that we might come out the other side better for it...
Thanks for continuing to contribute your self, Sioux Rose...
Gee, Norm, didn't you tell us to vote for this guy? Didn't you tell us we were voting for someone SMART this time? (Note: I didn't buy it; I voted for a different African-American, & I accept no responsibility for this one.)
So now we're back to the March of Folly.
Maybe you should wise up and come back to the Green Party, Norm.
Oregoncharles
Enough already with the "didn't you tell us to vote for this guy" comments. Remember the choices: McCain or Obama. That was reality. That was the reality of the United States that we currently live in. How much good did it do for you to vote for "a different African-American?" I know, you got to vote your conscience, and now you think you get to duck any responsibility by saying "hey, don't blame me - it ain't MY fault, 'cause I didn't vote for either one of them." Well, Oregoncharles, what are you doing now to try to get Congress and Obama on the right path? Your responsibility certainly doesn't stop at the ballot-box. It's time to check back in with your conscience, dude.
Apparently you're still in Wonderland, Alice.
Though I no longer believe in its effectiveness, I still sign every petition and attend every march.
More to the point, I continue to help give people a better alternative to vote FOR, mainly in the hope they'll eventually catch on.
Your claim that there were only 2 real choices is a perfect example of a self-fulfilling prophecy: it is true only because so many people still believe it. Eventually, they'll get so mad they won't care any more. I know that because it happened to me years ago.
Oregoncharles
yeah ok oregoncherries but you are suffreering from the delusion that you live in a democracy and that there is hope in how you vote. We are living in a plutocracy, government by mega corporations, and that's why we never get any real choices.
"The two greatest obstacles to democracy in the United States are, first, the widespread delusion among the poor that we have a democracy, and second, the chronic terror among the rich, lest we get it."
-Father Edward Downing
norman misses the point about afghanistan completely
this is one of the resons why msm are not paid much attention these days
obama is not head swelled about this issue and to try to frame the situation like that is juvenile
the reason for the afghan folly has to do with gas and oil and the pipelines that service them
most americans haven't got a clue nor the interest to actually locate these countries on a map but if one were to do so one would find that afghanistan and iraq abut iran
so, being in afghanistan and iraq offers the imperial death machine otherwise known as the american military the opportunity to squeeze iran from the east and west
also the piplelines to carry the oil and gas run through afghanistan
pax americana has two goals in the area
1. to steal the oil for themselves without having to pay for it
2. to have power over who else gets it - read very little for china or russia
the corporate military doesn't give two shits about the coutnry or the people - they don't care how many women get raped or beaten or how many people have sex with their goats
not an issue
control of the resources
get with the program norman
Oregoncharles
Norman Solomon,
What does "hold his feet to the fire" mean to you?
You are a single payer health care proponent as most Americans are. Obama's plan is to force everyone, by law, to purchase health insurance form corporations. Would you be willing to burn your health insurance policy and encourage others to do so?
Afghanistan will ruin Obysmal as Vietnam ruined LBJ. It is a ruin Obysmal will richly deserve. Afghanistan, like Vietnam, will linger in the American ether. We will breathe it in; we will blend it with our own stupidity and strutting, swaggering arrogance and it will consume us. In 2012, Obysmal will crawl out of his undisclosed location wearing the military camoulflage costume John Wayne wore in "The Green Berets". Standing in front of the enormous American flag George C. Scott stood in front of in "Patton" he will ask for your vote so he can accomplish the mission in Afghanistan of subduing and destroying the enemies of all civilized and freedom loving people. As I watch this on television, I will slowly lift my right hand and flip him the bird, then turn off the tube.
"Afghanistan will ruin Obysmal as Vietnam ruined LBJ"
Hhuuummmmm....in this Afganistan may indeed resemble Viet Nam.
Afganistan bears little resemblance to Viet Nam except that they were both mistakes.
Sisyphus was indeeed a wonderful analogy though.
Naomi Klein was on video the other day discussing the idea that we write off as 'mistakes' governmental actions that may well, especially given historical trends, not be mistakes at all, but deliberate acts...acts being apologized for, agonized over, and, eventually, excused as 'mistakes', when, perhaps, they should be recategorized, investigated and prosecuted as crimes...
Tonkin Gulf, 1964 - LBJ 'sexes up' an illusionary sneak attack by 'North' Vietnamese naval forces and Congress grants him command of the military in pursuit of an unachievable goal.
Afghanistan and Iraq invasions - Bush 'sexes up' illusionary connections between Saddam Hussein and the sneak attackers, and Congress grants him command of the military in pursuit of unachievable goals.
True, but very slightly....LBJ was slick and most believed it.....Bush? A bumbling snake oil salesman by comparison.
I mean, even if you berlieved it at first, how many folks were buying Bush after the first six months?
Well, YOU did re-elect him after 4 years.
(Mai Lai) Vietnam, (Falluga)Iraq,(Drone attacks) Pakistand, and the Afganwar are all excellent examples of hateing your brothers. It started with Cane--The good book tells how there is a curse upon him for life for that murder.When the world was destroyed by the flood it was because man was wickedly violent--after the flood the survivors were told by God that whosoever sheds men's blood their blood will be shed--good luck you big bad killers
US policies are not supposed to be good for the US or its people, only good for US boss class.
The Tuchman book is a great read.
You got that right. It was a real epiphany for me as a teenager when I first realized that all the drivel about "freedom" in the US meant freedom of the boss class to do as they wish with regard to the workers, the environment, the consumers, and to peoples in foreign lands.
BTW, I own a first-edition copy of THE MARCH OF FOLLY, and I highly recommend it as a great read. Mrs. Tuchman, Heaven rest her soul, is probably my favorite popular historian (I also own THE GUNS OF AUGUST, A DISTANT MIRROR and THE FIRST SALUTE, and I'm constantly looking for more of her works).
"Should we support this measure, we risk dooming our nation to a fate similar to Sisyphus and his boulder: to being trapped in a stalemate of unending frustration and misery, as our mistakes inevitably lead us to the same failed outcomes. Let us step back; let us remember the mistakes and heartbreak of our recent misadventures in the streets of Fallujah and Baghdad. If we honor the ties that bind us to one another, we cannot in good faith send our fellow citizens on this errand of folly. It is still not too late to turn away from this path."
Solomon's final paragraph says it all. Haven't we tried 'shock & awe' tactics of violence long enough yet to see the futility and immense waste of that? Will our so-called 'leadership' forever doom us to repeat the grave follies of history? I voted for Obama.... hell, I even campaigned for him.... never fully buying it all....(his lofty talk of 'change' always struck me as a tad overly ivory-tower and out of touch) but swallowing the bitter pill of 'pragmatism' forced down my throat by media exclusion of Kucinich and his (evidently too threatening) moral courage, I went ahead and voted, just too dismayed by McCain/Palin not to. This goes so much deeper than historical delusional thinking.... these times demand of us all a reassessment of the entire structure we've come to take for granted and even feel entitled to perpetuating. Its a question of empathy more than anything.... since realizing our inter-being (as Thich Nhat Hanh would put it) ----truly 'getting it' would make it impossible to continue with being okay with being the biggest purveyors of violence on this beautiful planet.
Murder is murder, whatever the scale. War is the ultimate mind/heart prison and blocks our evolvement forward into the caring, wise, compassionate people we know ourselves capable of being. Rather than devising more clever ways of annihilating insurgents, shouldn't we possibly be LISTENING to what of their needs are going unmet and making them BE insurgents???? These are just words... and seemingly no match for the force of weaponry, but it is in every person's power to withdraw from the Big Lie (war = peace) and connect with our individual and collective creativity to expose its sad posturing 'power' and replace it with something that serves our higher natures. Maybe this 'economic downturn' in the end will serve as a wakeup call to more mature and life-affirming priorities than just more bloody competing for the last scraps of empire.
This is becoming a broken record.
Show me _one_ piece of untainted evidence that connects al Quaeda, Afghanistan and 9/11.
There is none...absolutely none. 9/11 was a false flag of the highest and most horrendous degree....most Americans have been duped and prefer to remain in ignorance as a result of a complicit MSM and criminal government.
Angry speaks truth! Now, all we need is a path forward. Do you have one?
Norman is great at highlighting what's wrong, but conspicuously silent on what is to be done. Perhaps that is because he knows that if he were to advocate the sole rational solution of world communism through proletarian revolution led by a Leninist party, his paid career as an author would be over.
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How about no Federal government at all. How about a Confederation of Independent States. WE still have enough open space to found some new cities. How about a Green, or Libertarian founded city. We could recolonize the US from the inside. Go out and start your own settlement with like minded compatriots and set the example of a right way to live. If we humans can organize a yearly temporary city in the middle of the desert (burning man) than this is a possibility.
So who wants to step up?
No..we would all be at war with one another......lol
Scarabocion
March of Folly, indeed. Perhaps we are simply witnessing the inevitable conclusion in the life cycle of nations? Each in turn is convinced that history will not be repeated, that the lessons were learned, and then blithly goes down the same path. Unfortunately, we have an ever larger capacity for "collateral damage" when we finally leave the stage.
They do not want to learn the lessons...google "The Iron Mountain Report". War is economically sound according to these Satanic bastardz!
Thanks Angry for the reference!
For those who haven't followed Angry's suggestion (please DO google Iron Mountain Report), published in 1967, The Report from Iron Mountain presents itself as an official document of the US government, written by a specially appointed group of 15 men. Essentially, the Report argues that a perpetual state of war or "near-war" is necessary for governments to maintain power. From my brief look at the Report on the internet, I have no idea whether or not the Report was "authentic."
I was floored, however, by John Kenneth Galbraith's approbation of the Report in his review of it for the Washington Post: "As I would put my personal repute behind the authenticity of this document, so would I testify to the validity of its conclusions. My reservation(s) relate only to the wisdom of releasing it to an obviously UNCONDITIONED public.(emphasis mine)"
Holy Cats! Irrespective of the origin of the Report, Galbraith's endorsement and comment implying the need for conditioning the public shakes me to my core. I'll do more research, but my initial reaction is that there really IS a playbook from which the warmongers operate, and that the "conditioning" part of the playbook is what we have witnessed in the almost complete hijacking of the national discourse by the Military-Industrial-Complex in the 40-plus years since Galbraith's review.
Thanks again Angry!!!
My pleasure..it's a long read. I printed it out years ago and keep referring to it to constantly remind myself of the hell in which we actually reside.
If you have not read this report, grab it fast, as they keep deleting it off CD as spam........VERY ENLIGHTENING! AND EYE-OPENING/..copy and paste
http:/www.israelshamir.net/Contributors/
Collateral_Damage_911.pdf
Angry...over the years, have you had much success in sharing this info with people? If so, do many of them get the import of it?
For me, it's like the Rosetta Stone of understanding dominant American culture, policy and education. No wonder up is down and black is white here...if citizens retained their inherent reasoning abilities, they would "throw the bums out" and not tolerate stupid, grossly immoral wars.
Any suggestions on how to get the message out among "the Gentiles" (i.e., not just to those of us who are at least aware enough to come to CD)?
Thanks again!!!
monroematt May 21st, 2009 3:25 pm.............My friend, Tom, who runs the 911dvdproject.com (free or for any donation DVDs relating to the false flag of 9/11) favorite Chinese proverb is, "You cannot awaken a man who is pretending to be asleep". Those who wish to learn, will. It's a choice and ignorance is no longer an excuse...information is too readily available for those who care to look. Most do not want to know what goes on behind the curtain...it's too discomforting. Personally, I prefer the discomfort and continuing search for the truth over the illusions I have been fed from the time I was born. It's frustrating, but truth is like that.
Hope you get to check that pdf above.....before they remove it.
Got it...thanks so much! I'll share with as many as I can.
Dizi May - Reality is malleable. Pick one and live in it. You can always change it if you don't like it.
The more you kill, the more you lose. Unless you kill everyone on the other side. Then all you lose is your nation's soul.
Here's a suggestion: Someone should request that every member of the senate and house of representatives resign due to the fact that our country is being divided and going broke. Our president and VP should resign. Hell, every one that works for the federal government should resign. Before this happens, maybe we should request that all of our military and police disable their weapons and destroy their ammunition. Then WE THE PEOPLE might stand a chance at having a country closer to what our founding fathers had in mind. I have decided that politicians, military and police personnel are subhumans that are no longer in touch with reality. Or maybe I'm the one no longer in touch with reality!
"Then WE THE PEOPLE might stand a chance at having a country closer to what our founding fathers had in mind."
The country "our founding fathers had in mind" was that only white, male, property owners had any rights. We really need to dispense with the myth that these rich, white, slave owners were the ultimate in high-minded idealism.
I understand that no person, nor any government is "perfect", but it would be nice if we could all strive to be "more perfect"?
Please God!
Perhaps, Newbie, but after the Founders' generation, it was all downhill from there, as I see it.
And I've never read better ideals for this country than the ideals of the Founders (for example, slave-holder Thomas Jefferson said, "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none").
For a country to be truly great requires great principles as a firm foundation, not a powerful military with a global reach. A country abandons its founding principles at its peril.
I tend to look at actions as they speak far louder than words. The history of man is filled with leaders who espoused the highest of ideals only to oversee the most heinous of crimes, of which slavery and the extermination of our indigenous population are but two of many examples.
"slavery and the extermination of our indigenous population"?
I'd just point out firsdt that if our indigenous population had been exterminated we wouldn't have so many of them left. Slavery wasn't exactly reserved to just a few countries over history.
Frankly I believe you'll find many of the things you are thinking of in the history of most countries. Certainly all the Europeans countries, Asian countries, Middle Eastern countries.....in fact I can't think of a country thast doesn't have the same histories. There must be one or two.
So I must agree with you that the history of Man is filled with just what you name, but hopefully we will overcome it just as we did slavery and other things in spite of our leaders.
Thomas, you can't be serious. I don't think newbie meant that the entire NA population was literally exterminated. I think he speaking figuratively, no?
In case you're unclear on the issue:
"By conservative estimates, the population of the United states prior to European contact was greater than 12 million. Four centuries later, the count was reduced by 95% to 237 thousand."
http://iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/native-americans.html
That's pretty close to extermination.
I'll take your point. Between the actual deaths from fighting, the murders and disease which most died from, its close enough.
"I'd just point out first that if our indigenous population had been exterminated we wouldn't have so many of them left."
Perhaps. But if I set off a roach bomb in my apartment some of those roaches may survive and breed. And no I am not equating Native Americans with roaches, though I'm sure that was the viewpoint of many a European invader at the time.
"Frankly I believe you'll find many of the things you are thinking of in the history of most countries. Certainly all the Europeans countries, Asian countries, Middle Eastern countries.....in fact I can't think of a country thast doesn't have the same histories. There must be one or two."
True enough. As long as we allow arbitrary lines to be drawn on a map and say that people on one side of that line deserve to live and those on the other side of that line don't ... I mean I may not love my neighbor but I sure as hell can leave him alone.
"And no I am not equating Native Americans with roaches"
Boy its a good thing you put that in there. I knew what you meant, but tghere are some here that would have been quite rude!
We need to leave our neighbors alone in my view except to help them and only then when they ask us for help. And not allow "trade" agreements that hurt people like NAFTA.
"We need to leave our neighbors alone in my view except to help them and only then when they ask us for help."
Thank you, Thomas. Yes. We need to stop killing them, leave their lands, and allow them to determine for themselves how they will move forward, helping them (humanely) only if, when, and as requested to do so...this is merely the polite expression of respect...
Let me add that if we had a bit more respect for people, we'd all be better off.
I was taught to give respect to every person unless they proved they didn't deserve it. I still think its a good rule of thumb.
I would suggest to you that the country has not abandoned its founding principles, just the government and certain over reaching parts of our population have.