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Facing Foreclosure? Don't Leave. Squat
Marcy Kaptur of Ohio is the longest-serving Democratic congresswoman in U.S. history. Her district, stretching along the shore of Lake Erie from west of Cleveland to Toledo, faces an epidemic of home foreclosures and 11.5 percent unemployment. That heartland region, the Rust Belt, had its heart torn out by the North American Free Trade Agreement, with shuttered factories and struggling family farms. Kaptur led the fight in Congress against NAFTA. Now, she is recommending a radical foreclosure solution from the floor of the U.S. Congress: "So I say to the American people, you be squatters in your own homes. Don't you leave."
She criticizes the bailout's failure to protect homeowners facing foreclosure. Her advice to "squat" cleverly exploits a legal technicality within the subprime-mortgage crisis. These mortgages were made, then bundled into securities and sold and resold repeatedly, by the very Wall Street banks that are now benefiting from TARP (the Troubled Asset Relief Program). The banks foreclosing on families very often can't locate the actual loan note that binds the homeowner to the bad loan. "Produce the note," Kaptur recommends those facing foreclosure demands of the banks.
"[P]ossession is nine-tenths of the law," Rep. Kaptur told me. "Therefore, stay in your property. Get proper legal representation ... [if] Wall Street cannot produce the deed nor the mortgage audit trail ... you should stay in your home. It is your castle. It's more than a piece of property. ... Most people don't even think about getting representation, because they get a piece of paper from the bank, and they go, 'Oh, it's the bank,' and they become fearful, rather than saying: 'This is contract law. The mortgage is a contract. I am one party. There is another party. What are my legal rights under the law as a property owner?' "If you look at the bad paper, if you look at where there's trouble, 95 to 98 percent of the paper really has moved to five institutions: JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Wachovia, Citigroup and HSBC. They have this country held by the neck."
Kaptur recommends calling the local Legal Aid Society, Bar Association or 888-995-4673 for legal assistance.
The onerous duty of physically evicting people and dragging their possessions to the curb typically falls on the local sheriff. Kaptur conditions her squatting advice, saying, "If it's a sheriff's eviction, if it's reached that point, that is almost impossible." Unless the sheriff refuses to carry out the eviction, as Sheriff Warren C. Evans of Wayne County, Mich., has decided to do. Wayne County, including Detroit, has had more than 46,000 foreclosures in the past two years.
After reviewing TARP, Evans determined that home foreclosures would conflict with TARP's goal of reducing foreclosures, and that he'd be violating the law by denying foreclosed homeowners the chance at potential federal assistance. "I cannot in clear conscience allow one more family to be put out of their home until I am satisfied they have been afforded every option they are entitled to under the law to avoid foreclosure," he said.
Bruce Marks of the Boston-based Neighborhood Assistance Corp. of America is taking the fight to the homes of the banks' CEOs. Last October, as the TARP bailout was shaping up to benefit Wall Street and not Main Street, NACA blockaded the entrance of mortgage giant Fannie Mae until it got a meeting with executives there. Now NACA is working with Fannie Mae to restructure mortgages. Marks is organizing a nationwide, three-day "Predator's Tour," going to the CEOs' homes to demand meetings with them. He told me: "This is what we're going to do with thousands of homeowners, go to their (the CEOs') home and say: 'I want you to meet my family. I want you to see who you're foreclosing on.' ... If they're going to take our homes, we're going to go to their homes, and we're going to tell them, 'No more.' "
Before the inauguration, Larry Summers, the chair of President Obama's National Economic Council, promised congressional Democratic leaders to "implement smart, aggressive policies to reduce the number of preventable foreclosures by helping to reduce mortgage payments for economically stressed but responsible homeowners, while also reforming our bankruptcy laws and strengthening existing housing initiatives."
According to a report by RealtyTrac, "Foreclosure filings were reported on 2.3 million U.S. properties in 2008, an increase of 81 percent from 2007 and up 225 percent from 2006." As the financial crisis deepens, people facing foreclosure should take Kaptur's advice and tell their bankers, "Produce the note."
- Posted in
132 Comments so far
Show AllThanks to Amy Goodman for this article, journalism taking it's first step back toward fair and honest reporting.
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
Sioux Rose
Hi Leea, short grammar lesson (and you're far from the only one who makes this mistake as I even see it in the text of articles that CD posts).
The word it's is the abbreviation of IT IS. There is theoretically no such thing as an it being possessive. If it is the dog's bone, we say it's its bone. Can you see the distinction?
I have to stop myself sometimes and consider what's being abbreviated. So many people use an apostrophe even on a word like sees. As in he see's. Most of the time the apostrophe is used to bridge words, like cannot to can't. When it's used in the possessive there has to be a person on the receiving end of that context. (Although the English language is given to many anomalies.) Thomas More are you listening? I have seen you make this mistake many times. If we wish to be an educated, enlightened body here, it behooves us to express ourselves clearly.
Its so sad to see pour grammer adn speling. One must ask, "Is our children lurning?"
more like typing faster than one can think. Not all of us have all day to edit our comments. Just because you have good grammar and spelling does not mean you have brains or common sense. Whose fault are bad schools anyway? Stop being anal retentive and a snob.
Sioux Rose
Hi REDPILL, I think that many people either never learned or misuse contractions and/or possessive nouns. A little tutoring in the forum is done good-naturedly, not to put anyone down.
Here are a few funny things I've seen lately:
Come prey with me.
These are my suspections.
I wish I could remember another. I write them down I find them so mind-blowing.
I agree, but I worry about the divisions between us already, no need to create more right now, until we improve the education system and we have competent parents/teachers, afraid this will be with us a looooooong time. We need to be raging against the machine, not our potential allies (good humored or not). Life is so stressful and harsh now as it is. May I suggest, if you are able, to tutor some person who wants to improve (if you don't already)? Easy to criticize, harder to work to solve the problem. Trying to set a good example for people to emulate is a good thing too.
Funny you should mention property insurance, I forgot to put that one on my above list ($685 yr). I am sure there a couple of other things I forgot to add to that, there are so many. That is how my debt increased the first two years of my biz, before any $$ even came in, I'm on the hook for over $16,000 in taxes, insurance, etc. right at the get go and I don't have any wealthy benefactors to lean on. Just me. I took a big risk, for the national good as well as mine, to create a new business that benefits other small biz owners and poor, rural county folk, but the elites don't want competition or to help the common folk. We already ARE indentured servants.
SometinesIgetrealreallyconfusedwhere2putapostafeesandcommasansandineverunderstoodpropergramm
ernohownotevenShakespearsunderstooditsowhyshouldI???
Take this for example, I actually had no problem reading the above post.
what would the world be like if there were a bunch of people like me....eee gads!
giggle.
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
I use Mozilla Firefox as my browser. The built in spell checker fills my post with those red lines indicating how illiterate I am....
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
The best text on grammar is the Comma Sutra. The correct context as to which person is on the receiving end is nicely illustrated, along with enlightened bodies expressing themselves clearly.
LeeAnnG
Thank you, Sioux Rose!!! I am so glad someone else is pointing this out.
On Alternet people are permitted to rate comments, and my grammar corrections invariably get a "1" - the lowest possible rating, but I continue to do it anyway.
Yesterday I commented on an article about English only on Alternet with the following:
"I am just amazed at all the pro-English only comments and the high rankings they are getting! It reminds me of the t-shirt I once saw that said, "If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me."
What makes English our "official" language? Was it determined by god? This country was settled in the Northeast by the English, but by the Spanish and French in other areas of the country. The US essentially stole the Southwest and California from Mexico. It most definitely stole the entire country from Native Americans. (In fact, it's rather insulting to call them Native Americans, as they all have their own traditional tribal names; there's just no good alternative that I know of.)
The USA is the only "civilized" (using the word very, very loosely) country in which its citizens - unless they are recent immigrants - speak mostly only one language. In Europe, many people speak English and probably speak it with better grammar than most Americans.
I've spoken to Americans who are offended at the idea of even learning another language in school! They are narrow, xenophobic, jingoistic, full of "America first" exceptionalism and horrifed that they might need to understand or speak, for example, Spanish in some parts of the country.
Hey! I've got news! This country was populated by people from all over the world. We ARE multicultural! There have always been immigrants who didn't learn English very well, but their kids did. Most people are likely to have an ancestor who lived in an Italian, German, or other ethnic community in which it was not really necessary to learn English. I grew up in Allentown, PA, where my grandmother still spoke Pennsylvania Dutch to her friends. And she was at least second or third generation of German descent. (Oh. Right. That was GERMAN, not Spanish or some Asian language. Not so alien. And, like most second languages, it's virtually died out.)
My father's family and my ex-husband's family were Italian Americans. They did not teach Italian to their children, although some of the elders still spoke it to each other. I find that sad.
It's rather amusing that people who speak and write English so poorly think they have some kind of superiority when it comes to language. Note that many posters on Alternet don't know that "alot" is not a word, write "it's" as a possessive, seem to think "Clinton's" is a plural, and can't figure out when to use "myself," "me" or "I." Yesterday I read a post by a woman who used "daughter's" as a plural. I'm not talking about typos here, I am referring to habitual bad grammar and spelling. What's worse is that posters on Alternet are likely to be far better at using English than the average American.
We really need to teach second languages in our schools, but it's probably a good idea to also begin to teach proper English. If the language we use is such a very, very big deal to us, it might be just grand to speak and write it well.
I am dismayed at the number of posters who have said, 'We DO live in the USA, don't we? So let's impose English on ALL our citizens.' It's embarrassing on a progressive site to see such provincialism and limited thinking."
I got another "1" rating.
I thank you with great appreciation Sioux Rose, I agree with you that expressing ourselves clearly must be the foundation for success in this forum. My brain just corrects others writing as I read, and obviously this creates a problem when I read my own writing. I tend to be impatient with such detail, but that tendency can really work against me. I'm not sure why I am this way, but I am thankful I have friends like you who are courageous enough to point out this short coming. You can rest peacefully knowing I take your advice very seriously and value it greatly.
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
Hehe, Amy Goodman's not perfect but she sure beats Limbaugh, Hannity, Ingraham, etc ... any day. I'm finally able to get her on a local radio station though limited timing daily.
And my wife and I went out of our way to save a young man and his wife and children from foreclosure before it hit them. Luckily, they didn't make it to the hate list.
Sioux Rose
JWVEREZ: Good karma! Thank you for choosing to help that young family.
I tell you. The man was trying to repair his roof when he slipped and got seriously injured to the point that he had to sit in a wheelchair. His company lied to him about his wheelchair status being the reason he faced a layoff when in fact, the employer was later found out to have been looking for an excuse to outsource to a foreign worker on visa for less. In the meantime, his medical expenses along with his monthly mortage payments were killing him and his family and his wife was working longer hours. As soon as my wife found out that they were closer to facing foreclosure, we jumped in and decided to help him out. After a few months, it just so happened that the visa worker decided to move back so after desperately searching, the company decided to hire him back and even begged him back with extra bonuses to sort of compensate him a little.
At a time when all homeowners facing foreclosure for various reasons are coming under fire and some are mistaken as greedy wannabes, I'm glad that my next door family didn't have to make it to the hate list. After all the trouble they went through to climb up that ladder, the last thing they needed was an unanticipated accident followed by discrimination to shatter their lives.
The revolution must begin somewhere, with some act. This could be a sound beginning!
Right! When We the People have nothing left to lose, the revolution will begin. Let it begin now.
Dear Subprime Lender:
Our household has not been immune from this 'economy thing' and, as a result, our mortgage check will be somewhat delayed. Our financial resources have finally dwindled to the point where our ability to make payment is affected. Our living expenses have been cut back to the basics and we're still cash short to cover the mortgage payment, which is our largest expense next to taxes. We will resume paying the mortgage when our financial situation improves. It's not like we haven't been trying. It has been and continues to be very frustrating.
You may decide to proceed with eviction. Before doing so, you should know that we consider the dwelling our home and home is very important to us. Since those events that control the economy are way beyond our control, we don't plan to suffer disproportionately for something that's not entirely our fault, and since there is no safe haven from this 'economic thing', we prefer to stay in our home until whenever. You have the power to initiate or to not initiate the use of legal force that will be required to remove us from our home. Should you initiate the use of force or harassment, at whatever level, you will share proportionately. Friends who share our outlook and temperament are aware of our situation. The level of escalation is your call.
Please don't take this personally, these are just business risks that the bank must have, or should have, considered when investing in people's homes. The business climate has certainly changed.
There's no place like home.
Sincerely yours,
Subprime Debtor
http://theformofmoney.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/4/13/2878726.html
Mortgages are a bank rip off anyway. Amortization works against a "homeowner". That is why over the course of a mortgage, you will pay $400,000 for a $100,000 house! On top of that, if you payed a down payment, you lose that money too. Using my own mortgage as an example, I have a 5.5% loan, originally on $140,000 dollar balance. I have been in my home for 8 years. My monthly mortgage payment is around $800/month, of which only about $250 (now, after 8 yrs.) of it goes to principal. The rest goes to interest, pure profit for the bank. In eight years, I have paid $76000 to the bank, but only $15000 has gone to principal. I still "owe" $125000 to the bank. That means the bank has made $61,000 profit.
On top of that, I have to pay a monthly PMI (mortgage insurance, for the banks, not me). So if I default on the loan, the insurance company is supposed to pay the bank for that.
I know this is basic stuff, but if I stop paying my mortgage, I am the one who loses, not the bank, they have made $61,000 profit already, get the house and get insurance $$ for it too. For the record, I am not late or looking at forclosure, or underwater on my mortgage (yet)and bought a house I could afford, not a McMansion. I drive a 15 yr old car, no luxuries like fancy clothes, tvs, dinners out, no vacations in over three years or anything like that. I am piss poor and have no health insurance for two years (couldn't make the $500/mo payments that started out as $200/mo and pay the mortgage too.)even though I earn a good amount of money (I am self employed, so I get whomped on taxes, they don't like people who aren't wage slaves and you pay for it).
So, WTF? Even if someone is behind in their mortgage, the bank has made a HUGE profit. There is NO reason they can't refinance the mortgages at a better rate and at a lower amount if the house is "underwater". I think not only should people be squatting, but they should be defending their right to stay in their homes BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.
BTW, the arson rash in PA, are these "homeowners" who would torch their place rather than let the bank have it? You know what happens if people try to resist, they send your local sherriff to evict you for the banksters. That is why so many people are blowing their heads off or making a "Custer's Last Stand" with the local authorities. This country is sick.
Sioux Rose
REDPILL: Thanks for spelling it out. I bought a townhome in Key West in 1990 for $89,000 and recognized that I would ultimately be paying about $225,000 for it (I put down $20,000) and it was so obvious to me that its shoddy construction likely would not stand up to 30 years! Now with global warming and the probability of rising ocean waters, the entire Florida Keys (very pricey real estate) is at risk!
My daughter is pushing me to buy a foreclosed home/property but I argue that one can't be sure of the eventual property taxes since as some default, the burden will move to those who have been honest with respect to paying their dues.
I'm glad that people are being encouraged to BE squatters as there is no reason in heaven or earth to justify the banks pocketing OUR/taxpayer money and acting like they have no obligation to give something back to the public--their sponsors! in the name of decency, good citizenship, or accountability! Seems like the American public would be well-served by a VARIETY of new fairness doctrines, extending from media to mortgages, with health-care somewhere configured into the mix.
Sioux Rose,
Don't even get me started on taxes and insurance! Let alone interest rates on debt. I used to have no debt till I started my biz 4 yrs ago. (Other than student loans and I worked my way through college, got scholarships and had employer tuition reimbursement before Reagan made that taxable income and I couldn't afford to do it anymore)
This year:
$2000 Professional Liability
$600 Commercial Liability
$600 Workman's Comp (req'd by contract)
$1400 Commercial Auto
$2200 Property Tax
$7100 FEDERAL tax
$1000 State Tax
$150 Local Tax
$600 Long term care insurance
Total= $15600/yr.
That doesn't include, taxes on gasoline (biz), lodging(biz), fees, licenses, etc and payment on debt accumulated in the first two years I started my biz. I have paid back around $20000 on biz debt(where interest is going sky high, not able to refinance cuz I am self employed, banks, CUs won't even talk to me), but still have about $40,000 to go. Out of what's left, I have to eat, pay mortgage, student loans, pay utilities (which have more taxes loaded on them), pay cash for medical/dental care (pray , I don't get really sick, my med bills aren't deductible, not high enough), put something away for emergencies (after i sent my tax payments off = 0), can't even think about retirement savings.
What really sucks, is I earned good $$ with benefits when I was a wage slave, but still couldn't make enough to pay bills each month. I still earn, self employed, an above median income. I don't know how people with children who earn less that me make it, especially if they weren't as frugal as me. Apparently, they weren't making it, hence the problems we have today. Yet, the banksters buy $35,000 toilets and our governments pay people large salaries and exceptional benefits. We are all gonna be living like Zimbabweans soon.
Sioux Rose
REDPILL: I am convinced the elites are setting us up as indentured servants and my favorite joke is that they've done away with the cost of upkeep for debtors' prisons since now we are tethered to debt on an invisible yet palpable level.
There's a country music song with the lyric, "I get my check and pass it on down the line. The more money that I'm making, the less I can call mine, I'm addicted to a number, that ain't worth a dime." Right on! Too bad the people who generally like country also listen to Rush or go to fundamentalist churches where they're convinced the Republicans are THEIR party, ON their side, and all the terrible things of this world can be attributed to liberals, lesbians or gays.
Up until the loss of my parents in the past 2 years, I was subsisting on about $10,000 a year (from former days when as a writer and TV host my income was 4 X that) and it was OBSCENE that I, too, faced a number of ridiculous taxes. I bought my current very modest property before I was lucky enough to inherit stocks (another nemesis now) from my father; and between the property tax, property insurance, car insurance, self-employment taxes, retail taxes, car registration, I realized that about one third or more of that $10,000 was eaten up by these legalized forms of theft. And to think we may be FORCED to buy health insurance boils my blood, as I dislike 80% of modern medicine and have avoided surgery on more than one occasion, the most liberating thing was having a baby via home birth and also watching my body heal from a few conditions many would have sought medical intervention to negotiate. (I realize some conditions may be more resistant to these measures.)
I guess the best marketing device of all time is "America, land of the free..."
>>Apparently, they weren't making it, hence the problems we have today. Yet, the banksters buy $35,000 toilets and our governments pay people large salaries and exceptional benefits. We are all gonna be living like Zimbabweans soon.
I guess the bigger an asshole you are, the more you have to spend on a toilet.
PK
We also pay an inordinate amount in taxes. Every time there is a so called cut in taxes, there is an increase in local taxes to pick up the tab.
What really sucks is that we do not see much return for all this federal money we pay in. There are high taxes in other countries, but they have health care, free higher education and regulations around loans. Their unions and progressive parties have achieved some balance in how the national wealth is spent. We get very little, and what we get is piecemeal, given and taken back by whim every year.
When it comes to optional invasions or bailing out banks, all of our money spills right out, no questions asked.
When it comes to health care, affordable housing, clean energy, education and care for the disabled... there is always whining and whining and nickle and diming.
Joe
Wouldn't there be some bad feeling left in a house from which a family had been evicted? You of all people would be sensitive to that, I imagine.
I know it sounds a bit crazy even to me, but I have experienced traces of emotional events that had taken place in buildings. I would prefer not to live in a foreclosed house.
Joe
"Mortgages are a bank rip off anyway."
Then why did you get one?
Aside from rent, what other choices do you expect?
If the bank loan is seen as a ripoff, then rent is the better choice. What I don't understand is buying with loaned money when one thinks the loan is a ripoff.
Like bank loans, rental fees can and often will change unexpectedly and usually for the worse. There are times when one can actually find it cheaper to pay their mortgages monthly than rent. I can't say one is better than the other. It's matter of where you live and other circumstances. Landlords can be just as greedy as some of the lenders and banks.
" rental fees can and often will change unexpectedly and usually for the worse."
Only in accordance with the terms of the lease. Read it before you sign it,
You are so oppressed aren't you?
And you're a condescending twit aren't you?
What do *you* have to say to JWVerez regarding renting vs. buying? He's seemingly done nothing but express victimhood. Don't you get sick of that after a while?
I'm not saying that one can't disagree but I will say that JW Verez is an honorable human being who made personal physical sacrifices that you couldn't even imagine. So before you jump on him about "victimhood" or whatever, you would do well to remember that old Joe South song that goes, "..before you criticize and abuse walk a mile in my shoes".
"JW Verez is an honorable human being who made personal physical sacrifices that you couldn't even imagine."
What's that have to do with him now whining about housing costs? Nothing. The arguer is not the arguent, keep that straight.
You are the one that's whining. Stop projecting that onto others and get a life while you are at it, ok?
Thank you winning ticket.
I don't know what's the matter with jake. Sometimes I could sort of reason with him but he gets carried away with self-righteous cookie-cutter solutions and then he invents blame like crazy. If he was unable to find a job for even 3 months, it's highly unlikely that he'd even be able to rent let alone buy a condo, townhouse, or even a home altogether and pay his monthly mortgages. Sometimes, people act like a mafia or even worse with high level self-righteous bulldozing behavior. I'm just glad that I could save at least a few good people from falling prey to these hatelists when I could.
JWVerez: Your entire line of posting here is a big cliche. Everyone's a victim, whether they rent or whether they buy their house. Is this really the way you think it is? Do you really thing that housing is controlled by some monopoly?
"Your entire line of posting here is a big cliche."
As if you understand anything others say since you're living in an ignorant bubble. According to you, a country with the greatest national debt is somehow the greatest but I'll debate that on another topic.
"Everyone's a victim, whether they rent or whether they buy their house. Is this really the way you think it is?"
I never said that but thanks for telling me what you're misunderstanding and misinterpreting. Being a victim could happen to anyone at anytime. At least I don't insult anyone with a blame. I guess living in that bubble of yours has blocked your ability to assess reality but instead invent another pie-in-the-sky baloney.
"Do you really thing that housing is controlled by some monopoly?"
It's been going on in case you didn't pay attention.
"According to you, a country with the greatest national debt is somehow the greatest but I'll debate that on another topic."
Why are you trying to say something I never said? This is the second time you have done that. We are discussing whether consumers of housing have any power in the markets or not. You should learn to focus on the topic.
""Do you really thing that housing is controlled by some monopoly?""
"It's been going on in case you didn't pay attention."
You think all the landlords are really the same big omnipotent force. I thought so, this point is central to you thesis. . You can believe anything you want, but without evidence you will have a hard time getting people to see it your way. Landlords *compete* with each other to rent properties. The fact that there is a *vacancy rate* as I demonstrated in every market tells us they can't just stick it to the renter, because the renter can just go to the competitor who won't do that.
"Why are you trying to say something I never said? This is the second time you have done that. We are discussing whether consumers of housing have any power in the markets or not. You should learn to focus on the topic."
I was referring to your self-righteous arrogant behavior that you've shown before. You're the one who's out of line.
"You think all the landlords are really the same big omnipotent force."
I never said that although it's obvious more of them are trying to be just that. Apparently you never rented before or you wouldn't be so dishonest.
"You can believe anything you want, but without evidence you will have a hard time getting people to see it your way."
Speak for yourself. You're the only kid who's dishonest and thinks everyone will follow only your way while I lay out all the possibilities and reality itself.
"Landlords *compete* with each other to rent properties."
Not necessarily and not often either. In these days of dog-eat-dog and giving higher priority to fattening their bottom line, competition isn't often out there unless we're comparing a really bad apartment with a really good one. Besides, changing a couple of sofas in a lobby of an apartment complex and the next thing you know, they raise the montly rental fees by $50. And often times, I've come across reports of renters finding no maintainence or security from their landlords despite the outrageous fees. Apparently you never rented so you'd never know these tradeoffs.
"changing a couple of sofas in a lobby of an apartment complex and the next thing you know, they raise the montly rental fees by $50. "
In accordance with the rental contract? Then they can move down the street. In violation of the agreement? They don't have to pay it. What is so hard about this point for you?
Victimhood? Dude, I'm glad I saved a few innocent folks from making it to your hate lists. You need to get your reasoning in order and quit being a self-righteous bigot.
Ding, ding, ding! We have winner folks....winning ticket , a most perceptive poster.
Entering into a debate with this fellow is like banging ones head against the wall, it feels so good when you finally stop. Sad really.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Then rent. Why is ownership of a house, when you clearly cannot afford to own one, considered so damn freaking important?
I said OTHER THAN RENT which meant I was asking for a 3rd option. As for renting, it ain't necessarily cheaper depending upon the location and the landlords can gouge their customers any time they want. Plus there's no tax deduction. And don't forget that most often you'll be asked to give your current salary and then they decide whether to accept you or not. And if you're in a situation where suddenly you're unable to keep up with your rental payments, say an illness or a job layoff, get ready to be evicted. I'm not saying renting is worse but it ain't a panacea either.
"I said OTHER THAN RENT which meant I was asking for a 3rd option. "
I know you did. Outside of outright gifts of housing, there are no other options in all of history.
"As for renting, it ain't necessarily cheaper depending upon the location"
"Cheapness" of housing is quite different than whether the terms of a mortgage are favorable or not.
"and the landlords can gouge their customers any time they want."
Total BS. Renters can select among a wide range of rental options in most markets. There happen to be for example many vacant apartments for rent in the market I live in. Theses landlords "compete" with each other to actually close deals on leases. Where the market is tight, a renter can decide to go to some other market.
"Total BS."
No, and I can show you receipts from plenty of customers from various apartments and then you'd have to take it back.
"Renters can select among a wide range of rental options in most markets"
First of all, the market is RIGGED. Second, once the price goes up, it rarely drops. No apartment I've known of ever reduced its monthly fees. Name me one and show evidence if you have one.
"There happen to be for example many vacant apartments for rent in the market I live in."
What city do you live in? I'd like to check that out so that I can help a penpal of mine if I can. Consider yourself lucky because it doesn't work that way in most places.
"Theses landlords "compete" with each other to actually close deals on leases."
Anyone can do that but it's not as if they have to follow their own contracts. I've witnessed landlords changing their contracts on sudden whims all too often and I'd happily show you the proof any day.
"Where the market is tight, a renter can decide to go to some other market."
That's assuming there's even a real market and not another fudged one. Landlords are no more "saints" than the banks or lenders. It's all a matter of where you're at. All this nonsense about there being a "free" market of "choices" is what screwed us all up to begin with.
" I can show you receipts from plenty of customers from various apartments and then you'd have to take it back."
Nonsense, no one can gouge you without your permission. Your "customers" can shop for another apartment if they don't like the deal they have now.
"First of all, the market is RIGGED."
What's your very best evidence of this? Am I to beleive that renters, collectively, are just sheep that take anything that landlords force on them? That's stupid.
"No apartment I've known of ever reduced its monthly fees."
Anecdotal, and even if true irrelevent. Here's my anecdote: In the ten years I've lived here, the two adjacent units have seen eight different tenants. They both sat vacant for significant time as well. The point is that renters can shop around. Landlords don't like losing good tenants and having vacant apartments.
"Consider yourself lucky because it doesn't work that way in most places."
C'mon, are you trying to tell me there is some apartment shortage? Do you have any evidence of that? Don't you think that the record inventory of houses effects rentals in a similar way?
"I've witnessed landlords changing their contracts on sudden whims all too often and I'd happily show you the proof any day."
Show me that and I'll show you a renter with no spine. It's a two way street. That's as much their fault that they accept such a change that would never hold up in court.
"Landlords are no more "saints""
They're just people.
"All this nonsense about there being a "free" market of "choices" is what screwed us all up to begin with."
You instead pretend that landlords are omnipotent. That idea is what's screwed up. There may be a few tight markets for rentals where the market favors landlords in the US but on average, no way. People sit down and agree to leases every day.
"Nonsense, no one can gouge you without your permission."
Apparently, you never bothered to check for yourself. It's out there.
"Am I to beleive that renters, collectively, are just sheep that take anything that landlords force on them? "
First of all, renters don't have much of a say so the answer is yes. Sure, if more tenants put enough pressure on the landlord and if the landlord's ripoff attitude became well known, it might change.
"C'mon, are you trying to tell me there is some apartment shortage?"
It's easy to economically mug consumers who are pushed into thinking that they have no choice. But since you live in a bubble, you wouldn't understand.
"That's as much their fault that they accept such a change that would never hold up in court."
According to jake, if a landlord changes the contract on a whim, it's always the tenant's fault. Got it.
"They're just people."
You mean greedy bastards just like the homeowners you accuse of being greedy.
"There may be a few tight markets for rentals where the market favors landlords in the US but on average, no way."
I don't know where you invented that idea from.
"People sit down and agree to leases every day."
That doesn't mean anything.