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Bailouts for Bunglers
Am I being unfair? I hope so. But right now that's what seems to be happening.
Just to be clear, I'm not talking about the Obama administration's plan to support jobs and output with a large, temporary rise in federal spending, which is very much the right thing to do. I'm talking, instead, about the administration's plans for a banking system rescue - plans that are shaping up as a classic exercise in "lemon socialism": taxpayers bear the cost if things go wrong, but stockholders and executives get the benefits if things go right.
When I read recent remarks on financial policy by top Obama administration officials, I feel as if I've entered a time warp - as if it's still 2005, Alan Greenspan is still the Maestro, and bankers are still heroes of capitalism.
"We have a financial system that is run by private shareholders, managed by private institutions, and we'd like to do our best to preserve that system," says Timothy Geithner, the Treasury secretary - as he prepares to put taxpayers on the hook for that system's immense losses.
Meanwhile, a Washington Post report based on administration sources says that Mr. Geithner and Lawrence Summers, President Obama's top economic adviser, "think governments make poor bank managers" - as opposed, presumably, to the private-sector geniuses who managed to lose more than a trillion dollars in the space of a few years.
And this prejudice in favor of private control, even when the government is putting up all the money, seems to be warping the administration's response to the financial crisis.
Now, something must be done to shore up the financial system. The chaos after Lehman Brothers failed showed that letting major financial institutions collapse can be very bad for the economy's health. And a number of major institutions are dangerously close to the edge.
So banks need more capital. In normal times, banks raise capital by selling stock to private investors, who receive a share in the bank's ownership in return. You might think, then, that if banks currently can't or won't raise enough capital from private investors, the government should do what a private investor would: provide capital in return for partial ownership.
But bank stocks are worth so little these days - Citigroup and Bank of America have a combined market value of only $52 billion - that the ownership wouldn't be partial: pumping in enough taxpayer money to make the banks sound would, in effect, turn them into publicly owned enterprises.
My response to this prospect is: so? If taxpayers are footing the bill for rescuing the banks, why shouldn't they get ownership, at least until private buyers can be found? But the Obama administration appears to be tying itself in knots to avoid this outcome.
If news reports are right, the bank rescue plan will contain two main elements: government purchases of some troubled bank assets and guarantees against losses on other assets. The guarantees would represent a big gift to bank stockholders; the purchases might not, if the price was fair - but prices would, The Financial Times reports, probably be based on "valuation models" rather than market prices, suggesting that the government would be making a big gift here, too.
And in return for what is likely to be a huge subsidy to stockholders, taxpayers will get, well, nothing.
Will there at least be limits on executive compensation, to prevent more of the rip-offs that have enraged the public? President Obama denounced Wall Street bonuses in his latest weekly address - but according to The Washington Post, "the administration is likely to refrain from imposing tougher restrictions on executive compensation at most firms receiving government aid" because "harsh limits could discourage some firms from asking for aid." This suggests that Mr. Obama's tough talk is just for show.
Meanwhile, Wall Street's culture of excess seems to have been barely dented by the crisis. "Say I'm a banker and I created $30 million. I should get a part of that," one banker told The New York Times. And if you're a banker and you destroyed $30 billion? Uncle Sam to the rescue!
There's more at stake here than fairness, although that matters too. Saving the economy is going to be very expensive: that $800 billion stimulus plan is probably just a down payment, and rescuing the financial system, even if it's done right, is going to cost hundreds of billions more. We can't afford to squander money giving huge windfalls to banks and their executives, merely to preserve the illusion of private ownership.
- Posted in


106 Comments so far
Show All"Lemon socialism." Quaint. It's still the same old corporatism that's been dragging our country and world down its bottomless black hole.
http://davedubya.com
The American people are fools. There is no nice way to say it.
Before the election, anyone who took the time to read and think, could have seen that Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain were on the same team with little difference between the two.
Yet, good candidates of the people, like Mr. Kucinich and Mr. Nader and Mrs. McKinney were summarily dismissed by the MSM. Therefore, ignored by the idiot American people.
The political system is not fair, honest or of the people.
Recovery and Reinvestment act - write senators
http://www.jwj.org/
They also have the economic meltdown funnies
The American people reserve their greatest contempt for the politicians who support them the most.
Sioux Rose
DAVE B: I have read Catherine Fitts, Deep Capture, voices in this forum, spoken to several brokers, a millionaire friend who's been a genius with real estate, my sister (who's a whiz with business), and even psychics. I would have to say that NO ONE really believes (in the mainstream) how dangerous this situation is, that by allowing solid assets to be "granted false witness" in terms of their value (sold in bunches as derivatives, the "good" and the "bad" loans to the tune of TRILLIONS), most just believe--call it a "faith-based economy" that things will improve.
I downsized my life to a very modest property with almost no overhead, and am encouraging my children to do likewise. Although $ has always been an illusion and the US has "lived with debt" a long time, the chasm between the nation's assets and what it owes is so great as to render all presumed "worth" null and void. This is a new animal, and so no one can foresee the exact outcome. One of my Republican (so racist!) neighbors tells me he's relieved that it's global, in other words, not just America's suffering. Those in the forum who have recommended us learning to grow our own food are VERY prescient and wise. Great time to polish person skills, we may end up with a BARTER-based society fairly soon.
Government should close insolvent banks and financial houses. Fire the the top executives, let the bond and stock holders loose their investments. That would be a fair beginning.
Then prosecute the financial criminals under RICO statutes and recover some of the money that the government gave them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act Put the bastards in jail.
Bring back laws like the Glass Steagall Act. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-Steagall_Act
Oh, but not only they are they too big to fail; they are too big to jail.
Anyone in the Justice Department knows that an indictment under RICO of any of the big corporate/banksters would be a slam dunk for conviction by a jury of peers.
But, this is why Mr. Obama's corrupt corporate sponsored administration will only give lip service to any criminal prosecution, if that.
Mr. Obama is one of the Chicago boys.
hoytdouglas sez: "... an indictment under RICO of any of the big corporate/banksters would be a slam dunk for conviction by a jury of peers."
***
A jury of bankers' PEERS would laugh the prosecutor out of the courtroom.
I will grant, however, that a jury of sentient citizens would produce your slam dunk.
hoytdouglas
"Government should close insolvent banks and financial houses. Fire the the top executives, let the bond and stock holders loose their investments. That would be a fair beginning."
Thats the way Capitalism used to work before Clinton and Bush.
"Bring back laws like the Glass Steagall Act."
Absolutely! The faster the better.
"Thats the way Capitalism used to work before Clinton and Bush."
I wonder why Clinton's record on the economy was almost diametrically opposite to that of Bush:
longest economic expansion in American history--a record 115 months of economic expansion
More than 22 million new jobs: more than 22 million jobs were created in less than eight years -- the most ever under a single administration
Highest home ownership in American history
Made the Federal government smaller (a feat matched only by Harry Truman; if you like small government, vote Democratic)
Lowest unemployment in 30 years: unemployment dropped from more than 7 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000; unemployment for African Americans and Hispanics fell to the lowest rates on record, and the rate for women was the lowest in more than 40 years
Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill
Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
Lowest crime rate in 26 years.
Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years
Higher incomes at all levels: after falling by nearly $2,000 between 1988 and 1992, the median family's income rose by $6,338, after adjusting for inflation; all income brackets experienced double-digit growth; the bottom 20 percent saw the largest income growth at 16.3 percent
Lowest poverty rate in 20 years: the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent to 11.8 percent in 1999--the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years
Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union: efforts of the Clinton-Gore Administration led to the dismantling of more than 1,700 nuclear warheads, 300 launchers and 425 land and submarine based missiles from the former Soviet Union
Paid off $360 billion of the national debt: under Clinton, we were on track to pay off the entire debt by 2009; what a difference a stolen election makes...
Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
Lowest government spending in three decades
Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
More families owned stock than ever before
Most New Jobs Ever Created Under a Single Administration: Republicans really chew the rug when you mention this one, so it's worth repeating constantly
Median Family Income Up $6,000 since 1993
Unemployment at Its Lowest Level in More than 30 Years
Highest Home ownership Rate on Record
7 Million Fewer Americans Living in Poverty
Largest Surplus Ever
Lower Federal Government Spending: after increasing under the previous two administrations, federal government spending as a share of the economy was cut from 22.2 percent in 1992 to 18 percent in 2000--the lowest level since 1966
The Most U.S. Exports Ever: between 1992 and 2000, U.S. exports of goods and services grew by 74 percent, or nearly $500 billion, to top $1 trillion for the first time
Lowest Inflation since the 1960s: inflation was at the lowest rate since the Kennedy Administration, averaging 2.5 percent, down from 4.6 percent during the previous administration
The child poverty rate declined more than 25 percent
The poverty rate for single mothers was the lowest ever
The African American and elderly poverty rates dropped to their lowest level on record
The Hispanic poverty rate dropped to its lowest level since 1979
Lowest Poverty Rate for Single Mothers on Record: under President Clinton, the poverty rate for families with single mothers fell from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 35.7 percent in 1999, the lowest level on record
Smallest Welfare Rolls Since 1969: between January 1993 and September of 1999, the number of welfare recipients dropped by 7.5 billion (a 53 percent decline) to 6.6 million. In comparison, between 1981-1992, the number of welfare recipients increased by 2.5 million (a 22 percent increase) to 13.6 million people
Lowest Federal Income Tax Burden in 35 Years: Federal income taxes as a percentage of income for the typical American family dropped to their lowest level in 35 years
Higher Incomes even after Taxes and Inflation: real after-tax incomes grew by an average of 2.6 percent per year for the lower-income half of taxpayers between 1993 and 1997, while growing by an average of 1.0 percent between 1981 and 1993.
And so on.
Very Good record... Thanks
You missed the part where he enabled this fiasco by signing the bill sponsored by Phil Gramm that repealed the Glass Stegall act.
Without that, none of this would have been possible. Bill was a very good President except he made a few mistakes, this was worst he could have made.
Also missed was the signing of NAFTA and the pimping for GATT, as well as noting the extreme hardships incurred by those summarily tossed off welfare with no provision for job training or child care or any other sort of life preserver...Screw 'em I gotta balance this budget to throw a bone to the unwashed masses....
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Thanks hoyt for the link. I was surprised that the author of RICO Robert Blakley, also wrote the JFK Records Review act and wrote a book " the plot to kill the president" He also worked under Joe Biden.
Paul Krugman and Joseph Stiglitz are both Nobel Prize winning economists. Stiglitz was the first to point out the elimination of the regulation that loan corporations maintain an adequate balance between assets/equity and debt paved the way to our current crisis. My first concern is we are not seeing direct action taken to establish aggressive oversight, transparency and regulation go along with the huge bail outs. This must be an extra special concern in seeing the first Bush bail out result in big banks buying small banks, executives getting pay raised and bonuses, banks simply sit on the money - which does nothing to stimulate buying and selling stocks or extending loans to the public, purchase spas, fund expensive hunting excursions, etc...
Krugman is on target about tough talk but no real accountability. How about at least writing in plain English in any legislation that bail out money cannot be used for pay increases or bonuses, or that transparency is required to get bail out money or manipulation of books will result in prison time?
To be precise, privatizing profits while socializing losses is not free market capitalism. The least we can get from all this is that people quit desecrating Adam Smith. He wrote about enterprising individual capitalists that by hard work, ingenuity and ethical standards and competition between capitalists being the factor where the market would regulate itself. Smith was the first to warn us about "merchant cartels" manipulating the market. He would most likely be appalled at seeing our current billionaire, multinational, gargantuan corporations.
When it comes to ethical standards, we are looking at a bunch of money grubbing sociopaths. The reality of our situation is that CEOs and their executive teams are making obscene profits, but that wasn't enough to satisfy them. They resorted to loan shark tactics to try to push those obscene profits even higher, which resulted in a tsunami of toxic loans. A good illustration of this point is Fuld, the ex CEO of Lehman. One mansion wasn't enough. He owned FIVE.
We do not have free market capitalism, we have government assisted corporate profits and government assisted corporate recovery from losses. We have become a government of the billionaires, by billionaires and for the billionaires.
Sioux Rose
MOUNTAIN MIKE: Excellent post! I want to see Glass-Steagall put back into place, too, as the holes in the dam have hardly been substantially filled in... the $ is going to keep leaking, especially when those who engineered said holes are getting a lot of reward for the corruption that has wreaked havoc not only on our economy, but look at what's happening all over the world?
I also believe that some kind of regulation must be put in place that exempts necessary food products, the grains (rice, wheat, corn) from STOCK MARKET price manipulations... it's the 3rd world peoples STARVING over this casino basis for sound global economics. It reminds me of the way that big pharma demanded (through WTO) that other nations honor its "copyright" over AIDS drugs... no one in Africa or India or much of S. America could afford those drugs, so logically intelligent scientists came up with reasonable fascimiles. They were barred from using these to help their own citizens due to a trade barrier.
These laws, and the World Trade Organization that essentially SNAKES around the laws of sovereign nations to make up rules of its own, is loyal to one god and one god alone: Mammon. Persons who are part of this scheme could care less about the collatoral damage of 3rd world citizens starving, like the mothers feeding their babies mud pies in Haiti, because they can no longer afford to buy rice; or others dying slow painful deaths, because they could not purchase the AIDS drugs. (That matter has been somewhat negotiated since, in part thanks to public outrage.)
No society can maintain a quality of life for its citizens if the LOVE of money and those with most of it, get to write and implement the rules. America has already climbed into this abyss and Obama is only using small cosmetics to HIDE the face of the BEAST.
I like what you said about "faith-based" economics and a food firewall at the corporatist commodity casino...
a glass-steagal act for the global food bank...
I was thinking about those Haitian mud pies earlier today. We've been very fortunate here in de good ole usa.
By now Geithner and Summers must know their crackpot economic theories will not work to bring about recovery, but they also know that they can use their positions to transfer trillions of dollars to friendly interests, i.e. those who will pay back the favor after they leave government "service." Is Obama that naive, that corrupt, or that cowardly? Or is it some combination of those attributes?
The scared teen who robs the 7/11 for 50 bucks gets 5 years in jail. Bernie M. steals 50 billion and gets to roam around hiding $ from 9 to 6 and then returns to his 10 million dollar cell in NYC. Ah, America ain't it great!!!
Sioux Rose
MAINE: Do you remember how long the OJ Simpson "trial of the century" with its "dream team of lawyers" dominated the air waves? I think its outcome showed citizens the ugly fact that there are TWO legal systems operating. One for those with the means to PAY for their desired outcome (this may and often does exist 180 degrees apart from REAL justice) and those who rely on "the system" and its sometimes very overworked network of public defenders to mostly just "cut a deal" regardless of their "guilt" or innocence.
One of the only things that gives me solace besides the trees and sounds of birds making their spring mating songs, is the understanding that NO ONE ESCAPES their karma. The final arbitration of such activity may take time, as in more than one lifetime, but I have seen amply evidence it holds ALL to account. And I believe that "to the one much is given ($ counts), much is expected."
When we leave the earth and reflect on our actions in the company of more luminous guides within whose presence our own understanding is lifted (think Scrooge visited by the Ghost of Christmas past) the SHAME that results from seeing unmasked where greed led so many of us to turn against the interests of the vulnerable is soul-altering in terms of its revelation. The universe, composed of what we mostly define as light or energy, is really one SHARED entity... like the ocean composed of singular drops of water. Each may experience itself as a separate entity, but all are part of the great and vast cosmic sea. And truly, "whatsoever you do unto the least of these is done unto me," is not just conjecture. Spiritually astute persons see THIS as Universal Law. All are accountable to it in the fullness of time.
Well said, Sioux, as always.
Sioux Rose
EPHRAIM: The compliment is much appreciated. I consider you one of the best thinkers in this forum.
Obama has been in office less than two weeks. Bringing the voice of the people into actual planning & negotiation may well prove impossible; and the reality of class warfare doesn't cease to exist because the chief executive has a more expansive & generous view of society & political life than his predecessor.
Will Obama be the financial world's Kerensky?
Sioux Rose
DAVE B: As usual, realistic (as opposed to hope-based) assessment.
This bail-out of banks stinks to high heaven, particularly when so much hostility is shown to people being tossed out of jobs that GOVERNMENT POLICY helped to displace. Of course with 30 years drumbeat to the mantra of "personal responsibility" individuals are expected to presume the GUILT for mismanagement of their personal affairs, as if the larger socio-economic order plays no contributing role!
That there's hocus pocus going on over health care to once again keep the insurers (a/k/a usurous BLOOD SUCKERS) involved to the tune of about a 30% cut... while the $ is thrown at bankers and their bonuses as they BROUGHT OUR ECONOMY to its knees... no one could write a tragi-comedy this bad if they tried! Every principle has been turned on itself, every motive based on all the wrong priorities.
I transferred a sum from one credit card to one of those "no interest" for 10 month jobs, and today got a mailing that said if I miss a payment, dig this, the interest rate will be 36%! Next they will ask for our first born children, that is if military conscriptus doesn't beat them to the punch.
America always led the world in marketing genius, now the public is being bamboozled into the greatest marketing scams of all time: that they live in a representative democracy, that the government looks out for their interests, that it's a "free" enterprise society, and I'm sure my intelligent friends in this forum could add miles to the aforementioned minimalist list.
We are being forced to countenance EVIL and INJUSTICE as daily practices, indeed evil is so banal it's a significant component of the mix of "business as usual" in the degraded USA. One thing that helps is to give and be of service to others, generally that's the BEST deposit in one's karmic account to insure against the obviously tough times to come.
Siouxrose
Pretty fair comment overall except you didn't really mention the new "bait and switch" Job Stimulas Pkg.
Your comment about the credit card rates argues for a national usury law. 36%! You could get better rates from Tony Soprano.
From another string you said you could never favor Nuclear Power andf I wanted to say could you think of it as not favoring it, but seeing that it could be a portion of the mix to bridge the gap in the meantime?
Sioux Rose
Good evening, Thomas... this has been the coldest winter in North Florida that I can remember (I've lived here since 1995 off and on). With that being said, I think there ARE alternatives to nuclear, and for the same reason I DETEST genetic modification of food (and our own bodies, soon to come), it's because of HUMAN ERROR, a factor no one can pretend does not exist. The earth is a work in progress, as are we; and as such She is always changing. What might seem like a safe place to bury radioactive wastes today, might be where children decide to dig 300 years from now, or 500... remember the half-life of these tainted substances.
Others far more educated in the mechanics than I am have spoken about hemp or certain grasses, algae, the heat of the earth, oceanic movements, wind movements, sun power. It's all there. One reason it seems "out of reach" or "too costly" is because the powers that profit from the current unrenewal fuels want to keep things that way. They have precluded investment (by the government) in these sectors and in enough research to create a bridge. It's like arguing for your money or your life... now it IS a devil's bargain, but no one can convince me nuclear is the way to go. It's a shame so much precious time has been lost. If we want proof of how these corporations behave, think EXXON and Valdes. Think big tobacco hiding how addictive their boosted-nicotine "product" was/is. The list is endless. Clone Nader!
Sioux Rose--You have it exactly right. No one wants to address the nuclear waste problem. Nor do they want to grasp that it is our gov't that decided, over 50 years ago, to guarantee that we the people would be responsible for that waste and for the insurance. The gov't has created the whole nuclear problem. No one would build a nuclear power plant if they had to cover all the costs.
I'm not here to pimp for nuclear. However, an article in an alumni newsletter I just received tells of a possible ray of hope for nuclear waste: http://www.utexas.edu/news/2009/01/27/nuclear_hybrid/?AddInterest=1284. Just wanted to share for informational purposes.
Peace
Fair enough. I am of the opinion that Nuclear will have to be in the mix to solve our problems short term, but I wouldn't argue with anyone that felt differently. I just thought that you might consider it as a part of the solution without favoring it as a solution. The waste problem can be solved possibly and not on Shoshone lands.
We are looking at the rest of the country (including Florida) and saying...,.what the hey! We're at our normals almost. Amazing that you are cold in Florida!
Have a good (warm) day!
JFK was a Cold War liberal who ran on a mythical missile gap and was tepid in his approach to civil rights' activists, but began to develop in new & unexpected ways while in office, just as FDR did.
Obama's labor secretary is not a 'bankster advocate', nor are those advisors who don't fit the 'bankster' profile. And which alterations are real and which are only 'cosmetic' has to be gauged in the course of time.
Whether Obama chooses a truly liberal or a neo-liberal course is of no matter at all to those further on the left, except those maintaining the illusion that the deep structural changes can be made through electioneering & third-party growth, etc. Playing Cassandra -- "I have told you all the time, hah!" -- or hand-wringing over progressives who were 'deceived' is puerile. There will never be a third party with any power in American politics until after the coming quakes that are shaking apart the underpinnings of the political system itself.
Until then, be grateful for 'cosmetic' changes; oftentimes, people & countries are compelled to become what they only wish to appear to be.
The current financial crisis is the symptom; the illness is the transfer of the wealth of the Middle Class and blue collar working poor to tiny elite of billionaires like the Walton family. When 95% of the society is intentionally impoverished for the benefit of a tiny minority that society is going to change dramatically and for the overwhelming majority the change is going to be for the worse. The “bailout” is the final knife in the back of America’s Middle Class. As Caesar asks Brutis “Et tu Brute? Et tu Obama?
Fuld and wife still have his five mansions...
-30-
Perhaps a new government-backed mortgage should be developed. This mortgage could cover the current home value for 30 years ( principal and interest amortized over 30 years) and the troubled portion of the mortgage could be put in a second mortgage that runs a second thirty years.
For example, an individual has a $400,000 mortgage (1st, 2nd, Homer Equity) on their residence which is now worth $200,000. Since some of this money was used to support credit cards and other credit lines, their monthly debt obligation is no longer sustainable. Their real cost of money is much higher than their mortgages.
The government comes along and guarantees a 30 year mortgage for $200,000 at current mortgage rates. Banks originate the mortgage and handle administration of the mortgage.
If a 5% rate is used, $400,000 in debt is retired for a apyment of $1073 per month. All the nasty usurous debt gets retired. Bank of America loses...
The government/bank pays off the whole $400,000 in debt and puts $200,000 into an account that is deferred until the a second thirty year period.
There are a million ways to calculate or justify an interest rate for the second thirty years. if a 2.4% rate was used, for example, the new mortgage could be based on $400,000. Since this is thirty years down the road, we might be comfortable in assuming a 2.4% annual inscrease in home valuation for the longer term (30 years)
Yes... it does get complicated if the owner sells within thrity years. Should there be a life insurance omponent to cover the send part of the mortgage? Can this model be developed to favor other typers of lenders (community banks, credit unions)?
The main points are:
The home has now been moved from a troubled asset to a residence
The second thityy year mortgage is now treated as a bond. It might even be freely traded on bond markets if regulated (and oversought)
Just an idea ...there must be someway out of here....
I'm afraid that any solutions are like those being attempted for global warming, too little...too late.
The global financial crisis originated with the US sub-prime (and ARM) mortgage crisis that was apparent in 2007. A government administrative plan to help those hard working American families who were sold a "pig in a poke" by "snake oil" salesmen could have been established. The aims should have been to allow families to live in their homes at affordable prices and to take the loss between sale value and mortgage value and have the government buy that at a large discount as a interest bearing debenture against the financial institution's future earnings. Individuals "gaming" the system could have been excluded by a net worth ceiling. This might well have slowed the deflation of the real estate bubble.
However instead of dealing with the source of infection it was allowed to grow and by analogy to a bacterial infection it is now blood borne, destroying vital organs like the heart and kidneys. It is not yet certain whether the patient (global financial system) will survive.
Prof, I think this is an exaggeration "The global financial crisis originated with the US sub-prime (and ARM) mortgage crisis that was apparent in 2007."
This is being used as the scapegoat or the straw man who broke the Elephant's back.
Debt is debt no-matter the source and the USA has around 60 trillion in Debt Liabilities caused mainly from the ongoing War economy.
This Debt was building to the point that Homes were the last major source of value left in the US for investment since our manufacturing was out sourced.
The Death merchants are happy to blame the world crises of Debt on "honest mistakes of lenders to home buyers in the USA". The War economy has been run world wide for the benefit of the Super wealthy, the politicians, and the International Banking Cartel.
Sub prime was not the originator of endless Debt, it is the tipping point.
Jim, I agree with you that using tipping point, rather than originated, is a better choice of language to fit the facts. It is what I meant.
A relatively simple solution to the banking problem and meltdown of the financal system would be the following: With 500 billion taxpayer dollars establish 250 regional cooperative banks capitalized at 2 billion each. Depositors with $100
in a savings account would each have one share of the bank with voting rights.
Depositors would determine executive pay and bank policy with guidelines from Treasury. Election of board of directors by shareholder/depositors, total transparency, annual meetings of shareholders would all contribute to confidence building.
Dave just for the record. Cooperatives are rooted in the notion that every member has one vote and is unrelated to dollars invested. Peace roscoe
A quick google showed me that credit unions exist in the US.
I'm broke. Is there anything left to steal?
MountainMike has the financial sector bailout situation very well defined when he talks about "privatizing profits while socializing losses....." It appears that at least the first $300 billion or so has already been doled out in secret by Ben Bernanke and other outgoing Bush regime factotums to their business cronies with absolutely no strings of public accountability attached.
I still say that in addition to the usual litany of long overdue regulatory reforms, more attention should be paid to the remedy of disgorging the ill gotten gains.
These billionaire masters of the universe with their credit default swaps, bundled derivatives, and snake oil sales pitches to overseas public and private investors are solely responsible for the global financial meltdown. At every step of the process, the individuals and institutions which created this illusory Ponzi scheme of toxic waste investments paid themselves millions and billions in real world profits, while the fox guarding the henhouse throughout George W. Bush's watch kept singing the praises of the invisible, innovative hand of the market place that was supposedly working magic for the betterment of all.
It was fraud and illusion.
Except of course for the transaction fees and bonuses.
Those transfers of wealth were very real. Those ill gotten gains should be disgorged back into the public treasury as partial repayment for the bailouts underway.
If (as the Washington Post reports) "harsh limits [on executive pay] could discourage some firms from asking for aid", then I say three cheers for that.
Bill from Saginaw
This is an outrage. I just returned from taking my dad to the doctor. His medicine costs 500 each month. He must pay the full amount the last three months of every year on an income of 9000 per year.
He worked from age 18 to age 65. The doctor says there is no provision in the stimulus package for SS or Medicare. This is about as fair as the billions which banks are sitting on. We need an all new economic system. This one sucks.
The only thing to say is that its past an outrage, its shameful. And its medecine Medicare can't negotiate the price for. A double insult to your Dad.
"The doctor says there is no provision in the stimulus package for SS or Medicare."
There aren't any provisions in this Pork Pie bill that they are calling a stimulas package for anybody except the little agendas every legislator has been trying to get in for years.
Its not the system, its the people that have disarmed it and corrupted it and Pelosi and Reids bunch just showed they are worse than the Republicans by sending this shameful piece of pork to the Senate.
Edmund Burke: "The revenue of the State IS the State."
Revenue, revenue, wherefore art thou? China? The super rich in the good old USA? The Cayman Islands and hundreds of other offshore pirate banking enclaves loaded with 30 years worth of upper-class American loot? The Pentagon's budget? Oh, I've got it fresh from the RNC: 'The only "true" stimulus is more tax cuts for big business combined with renewed attacks on organized labor (and, left unsaid, continuing federal subsidies for off-shoring American jobs).'
Thomas More, just how, exactly, is the Pork Pie stimulus bill that is currently being contemplated WORSE than the literally economically overwhelming fiscal catastrophe of the Republican "success" at de-regulation combined with a foreign policy little different from that of the Conquistadors?
The Pelosi and Reid bunch on their worst day couldn't begin to top the Newt Gingrich bunch or the Trent Lott/Dick Army bunch or the Dennis Hastert bunch or the Tom DeLay bunch. All these scumbags are still hailed as heroes within the GOP and if you prefer (R) John Boehner (correct pronunciation closer to "boner" than "baynor") to Nancy Pelosi you are one pose short of a ploy.
You need to justify your support for the GOP with remarks like "...and Pelosi and Reid's bunch just showed they are worse than the Republicans by sending this shameful piece of pork to the Senate."--or stop making such unsupported remarks.
You sound like that megalomaniacal hypocrite, Sen. Mitch McConnell, who recently lectured thoroughly corporatist DLC hacks who haven't been in power in almost a decade about fiscal "accountability." What kind of Republican fiscal accountability have we seen? Bush-Cheney style accountability? Hastert/DeLay style accountability? I despise Pelosi and Reid and I'd still rather have them as Congressional leaders than any full-spectrum traitor Republican.
You must be kidding. You can get I support the GOP out of that?
Let me clarify. Pelosi and Reid are combining to present a bill that is so full of pork it should oink when it walks.
I don't believe I mentioned deregulation or our foreign policy.
I was referring to the Republicans bill last year that wasn't as bad as this one. And even if it was these folks were elected and re elected to correct the mess the Republicans made of our country and our economy. So in my opinion if they send this bill out and its signed they are worse. It won't help anyone either.
"The Pelosi and Reid bunch on their worst day couldn't begin to top the Newt Gingrich bunch or the Trent Lott/Dick Army bunch or the Dennis Hastert bunch or the Tom DeLay bunch."
While I can't disagree with this statement at the moment, if this is passed, they may very well be on their way to competing for the title. If you do the same things you are the same things to me.
I would recommend to everyone to see the companion video here in CD:
http://www.commondreams.org/video/fed-lends-two-trillion-without-oversight
As the title states, there have been now TWO TRILLION given away by the Fed. Reserve Bank (which is not federal, but owns all the US Money!), without ANY oversight or accountability.
A good cartoon called "If they ran the super bowl the way they run Wlaa Street" can be found on this web site:
http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20090202/OPINION01/90201020/1031/opinion01
Why does it still feel like Bush is running the show, or his horses anyway? Makes me feel dirty all over and I just hopped out of the shower.
thong-girl