US president told Israeli prime minister he would not back attack on Iran, senior European diplomatic sources tell Guardian
Israel gave serious thought this spring to launching a military strike on Iran's nuclear sites but was told by President George W Bush that he would not support it and did not expect to revise that view for the rest of his presidency, senior European diplomatic sources have told the Guardian.
The then prime minister, Ehud Olmert, used
the occasion of Bush's trip to Israel for the 60th anniversary of the
state's founding to raise the issue in a one-on-one meeting on May 14,
the sources said. "He took it [the refusal of a US green light] as
where they were at the moment, and that the US position was unlikely to
change as long as Bush was in office", they added.
The sources work for a European head of government who met the Israeli leader some time after the Bush visit. Their talks were so sensitive that no note-takers attended, but the European leader subsequently divulged to his officials the highly sensitive contents of what Olmert had told him of Bush's position.
Bush's decision to refuse to offer any support for a strike on Iran appeared to be based on two factors, the sources said. One was US concern over Iran's likely retaliation, which would probably include a wave of attacks on US military and other personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as on shipping in the Persian Gulf.
The other was US anxiety that Israel would not succeed in disabling Iran's nuclear facilities in a single assault even with the use of dozens of aircraft. It could not mount a series of attacks over several days without risking full-scale war. So the benefits would not outweigh the costs.
Iran has repeatedly said it would react with force to any attack. Some western government analysts believe this could include asking Lebanon's Shia movement Hizbollah to strike at the US.
"It's over ten years since Hizbollah's last terror strike outside Israel, when it hit an Argentine-Israel association building in Buenos Aires [killing 85 people]", said one official. "There is a large Lebanese diaspora in Canada which must include some Hizbollah supporters. They could slip into the United States and take action".
Even if Israel were to launch an attack on Iran without US approval its planes could not reach their targets without the US becoming aware of their flightpath and having time to ask them to abandon their mission.
"The shortest route to Natanz lies across Iraq and the US has total control of Iraqi airspace", the official said. Natanz, about 100 miles north of Isfahan, is the site of an uranium enrichment plant.
In this context Iran would be bound to assume Bush had approved it, even if the White House denied fore-knowledge, raising the prospect of an attack against the US.
Several high-level Israeli officials have hinted over the last two years that Israel might strike Iran's nuclear facilities to prevent them being developed to provide sufficient weapons-grade uranium to make a nuclear bomb. Iran has always denied having such plans.
Olmert himself raised the possibility of an attack at a press conference during a visit to London last November, when he said sanctions were not enough to block Iran's nuclear programme.
"Economic sanctions are effective. They have an important impact already, but they are not sufficient. So there should be more. Up to where? Up until Iran will stop its nuclear programme," he said.
The revelation that Olmert was not merely sabre-rattling to try to frighten Iran but considered the option seriously enough to discuss it with Bush shows how concerned Israeli officials had become.
Bush's refusal to support an attack, and the strong suggestion he would not change his mind, is likely to end speculation that Washington might be preparing an "October surprise" before the US presidential election. Some analysts have argued that Bush would back an Israeli attack in an effort to help John McCain's campaign by creating an eve-of-poll security crisis.
Others have said that in the case of an Obama victory, the vice-president, Dick Cheney, the main White House hawk, would want to cripple Iran's nuclear programme in the dying weeks of Bush's term.
During Saddam Hussein's rule in 1981, Israeli aircraft successfully destroyed Iraq's nuclear reactor at Osirak shortly before it was due to start operating.
Last September they knocked out a buildings complex in northern Syria, which US officials later said had been a partly constructed nuclear reactor based on a North Korean design. Syria said the building was a military complex but had no links to a nuclear programme.
In contrast, Iran's nuclear facilities, which are officially described as intended only for civilian purposes, are dispersed around the country and some are in fortified bunkers underground.
In public, Bush gave no hint of his view that the military option had to be excluded. In a speech to the Knesset the following day he confined himself to telling Israel's parliament: "America stands with you in firmly opposing Iran's nuclear weapons ambitions. Permitting the world's leading sponsor of terror to possess the world's deadliest weapon would be an unforgivable betrayal of future generations. For the sake of peace, the world must not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon.''
Mark Regev, Olmert's spokesman, tonight reacted to the Guardian's story saying: "The need to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons is raised at every meeting between the prime minister and foreign leaders. Israel prefers a diplomatic solution to this issue but all options must remain on the table. Your unnamed European source attributed words to the prime minister that were not spoken in any working meeting with foreign guests".
Three weeks after Bush's red light, on June 2, Israel mounted a massive air exercise covering several hundred miles in the eastern Mediterranean. It involved dozens of warplanes, including F-15s, F-16s and aerial refueling tankers.
The size and scope of the exercise ensured that the US and other nations in the region saw it, said a US official, who estimated the distance was about the same as from Israel to Natanz.
A few days later, Israel's deputy prime minister, Shaul Mofaz, told the paper Yediot Ahronot: "If Iran continues its programme to develop nuclear weapons, we will attack it. The window of opportunity has closed. The sanctions are not effective. There will be no alternative but to attack Iran in order to stop the Iranian nuclear programme."
The exercise and Mofaz's comments may have been designed to boost the Israeli government and military's own morale as well, perhaps, to persuade Bush to reconsider his veto. Last week Mofaz narrowly lost a primary within the ruling Kadima party to become Israel's next prime minister. Tzipi Livni, who won the contest, takes a less hawkish position.
The US announced two weeks ago that it would sell Israel 1,000 bunker-busting bombs. The move was interpreted by some analysts as a consolation prize for Israel after Bush told Olmert of his opposition to an attack on Iran. But it could also enhance Israel's attack options in case the next US president revives the military option.
The guided bomb unit-39 (GBU-39) has a penetration capacity equivalent to a one-tonne bomb. Israel already has some bunker-busters.
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63 Comments so far
Show AllInteresting that everyone seems to forget that so many months back, when Israel announced its desire to bomb Iranian reactors, Russia warned if Israel attacks Iran, Russia will declare war on Israel. And U$A didn't say "boo".
So why did U$A fail to counter Russia's threat?
#1 Because U$A won't attack any country with the ability to retaliate, and #2 because U$A would be defeated in a war with Russia. Who has Iran, Syria, North Korea, and Venezuela as military allies, plus China, India and Brazil as financial allies.
Mugsly and Dingbat typically scoff at the suggestion Russia would defeat U$A in a war. But the fact is U$A has no defense against the Shkval underwater missile which Russia has sold to China and Iran.
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002291.html
One of my former hobbies was testing which substances will stop full metal jacketed bullets (standard military ammo) and I found absorbent substances to be superior to rigid/reflectic substances for this purpose.
I've also thought up a defense to bunker busters, although radioactive contamination of aquifers seems unavoidable.
For a few years now I've been theorising/waiting for someone to develop a weapon which can detonate an enemy's nukes in their silos, thus make nuclear weapons a liability rather than an asset.
Recently Russia has developed an electromagnetic pulse super weapon. I suspect this may be the nuke negator I've been waiting for.
http://english.pravda.ru/science/tech/04-09-2008/106296-electromagnetic_...
Israel can decide IF IT WANTS TO ATTACK IRAN. They have their own soldiers and bombs and rockets and jets and destroyers.
And just make sure that the offsprings of the war mongers and their SHILLs in this country join the military to fight the Iranian/Israli War (WWIII). Why should the privlidged, who support using other peoples children as cannon fodder, not have to share in the death and destruction they champion?
Matthew, Rebecca, Ethan, Hana, Tennessee, Willie, Eden and Yitzh Lieberman
Taggart, Matthew, Joshua, Benjamin, Craig and Seamus Romney
Jenna and Barbara Bush, Bush son-in-law, Henry Hager; Noelle, John Ellis Jr, Lauren, Pierce, Marshall, Billy, Ashley Walker Bush and George P. Bush; Billy Bush, Ashley Walker Bush and George P. Bush (2 weekends a year in the Navy Reserves is not on the same page as what the non-privlidged soldiers in Iraq go through); Samuel and Ellie LeBlond, Robert and Gigi Koch.
Mary Cheney, Elizabeth Cheney, Philip J. Perry Cheney son-in-law) ARE ALL still young enough)
Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, William Bennett, John Bolton, Michael Chertoff all have offsprings THAT SHOULD BE SERVIN THEIR COUNTRY IN WAR.
The children of Katie Curic, Tom Brokaw, Lou Dobbs, Brit Hume, Joe Scarborough, Brian Williams, Charles Gibson, Cokie Roberts, Bob Schieffer, Wolf Blitzer, Charles Krauthammer, Norman Podhoretz, who are nothing but shills for the Bush/Cheney administration, McCain and the republican party should share the burden.
And explain how these people feel no obligation to serve their country: Luke Russert, Andrew Rove, Jonah Goldberg, Sara Taylor, Monica Goodling, D. Kyle Sampson, J. Timothy Griffin, Matt Drudge?
Bush: "Permitting the world's leading sponsor of terror to possess the world's deadliest weapon would be an unforgivable betrayal of future generations"
I regret to inform you that that position is already taken -by none other than the USA.
Israel should consider destroying its own nuclear program first. Why not use the 200+ nuclear missiles that Israeli has as a bargaining chip in discussions with Iran? Why is it ok for them to have weapons of mass destruction?
Goose2
They all get called in front of the AIPAC and HAVE to go public with they pledge to Israel. AIPAC has links or is the same people from Israel that record every phone call E mail etc in America. If one or any of these politicials ever said something that can be used against them the AIPAC knows about it and threatens to use it. That is how Israel keeps control of the America Gov on all levels.
I say no bail out and stop funding Israel, cut a deal with Iraq and others on oil and pull the troops and put that into helthcare in America.
My point is that Obama and McCain are both going to put US muscle behind Israel so what are you going to do? Vote McKinney? Nader?
I posted here more than a year ago that the nation is more conservative each year because the conservatives continue to successfully move the middle to the right. Now to be a moderate you say you're like Reagan not FDR.
I just see a continious move to the right here in the US and voting for either McCain or Obama is going to continue that.
For those progressives here that support Israel, like myself, that is great, but for all the other progressive issues, it doesn't bode well.
Don't you all lose hope sometimes. Like there isn't a reason to participate any more? Boycott everything. Grow hemp. Live in the trees. Opt out. Seems like a good policy for a lot of people here.
FEAR what a great weapon a Gov uses against its people. USA does it Israel does as well.
As for Iran and the bomb, wake the hell up those who want to bomb Iran. Go vote for McCain
I just listened to Obama and he seemed to be against Iran getting the bomb as well and as for Israel, he sounded more of a supporter than McCain.
Wait 5 minutes...I'm sure he'll waffle
Do you remember the day after Obama became the nominee (not at the convention, but during the primaries), the next day he was so proud and spunky, speaking with his AIPAC buddies at a big AIPAC gathering, where he, Obama was on hands and knees giving it all to prove to his Jewish terrorist friends that he was their guy
And we're supposed to fall in line and vote for this trash because he's not McCain
The USA, with its theocratic nutjobs McCain and Bush are a danger to the entire world.
The only modern leader that has claimed that god told him to strike (Iraq) is GWB.
These nutjobs continue to threaten peacful countries.
Unlike the USA and Israel, Iran has never attacked nor threatened to attack any country.
Given that the threat to Iran is quite real, they alone, would be justified in
pre-emptive war, but does not choose to behave in that manner. Israel does not have
a peaceful history like Iran does. Is a real threat to many countries in the region,
especially its neighbors and is armed with real nuclear weapons.
Only idiots who thought Saddam was a threat think that Iran is a threat. The neocons
and their followers are just using the WMD farce because they think Iran is a good target.
If Iran had no oil and was not situated in oil rich area, there would be no threat to Iran.
If they were genuine about nuclear disarmament then the pressure would be on Israel.
And to top it all off we have the oxymoron Jewish/Christian Coalition movement where as they need moral, financial, and weaponry support from the good ole USA. Does this really mean that Israel is chicken shit, and wants another nation to do its' immoral bidding? The last time I went to Israel, all I seen was a bunch of paranoid schizos walking the streets. Websites, and organizations abound to rebuild the Temple Mount too, with the Jewish people knowing all too well that it will be theirs someday. BUT! As usual Israel is too chicken shit to just take it. I believe the Zionist nation wore out the sympathy pangs from the World along time ago, they need to get over it.
Coffeelover,,,,,,
But hasn't Ehud Olmert already resigned b/c of some issues? Will that not affect Israel's policies toward Iran now?
"The 2005 National Intelligence Estimate put Iran at least a decade away from having a nuclear weapon if it was trying hard to get one and if the international environment was conducive (i.e., if Iran could import all the equipment it needed easily).
"Neither of those conditions actually appears to exist, so Iran is very far away from having a bomb. The 2007 National Intelligence Estimate on Iran, parts of which were released last December, concluded that Iranian scientists have not done any weapons-related research since early 2003. As Ahmadinejad pointed out to Larry King, no country has been as intensely inspected by the International Atomic Energy Agency as Iran."-Juan Cole
IMAGINE if USA pols had the balls to demand Israel open up their WMD facilities to IAEA inspectors and demanded Israel sign the NPT and the USA ACTUALLY UPHELD their NPT commitments, what a wonderful world it could be!
Eileen Fleming, Reporter and Editor WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
Author "Keep Hope Alive" and "Memoirs of a Nice Irish American 'Girl's' Life in Occupied Territory"
Producer "30 Minutes With Vanunu" and "13 Minutes with Vanunu"
IAEA Chief: Iran 'on path' to atomic weapon
5 hours ago
BERLIN (AP) — The head of the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog warned in comments published Friday that Iran is one of several countries on the "path" to possessing the ingredients for making a nuclear weapon.
Mohamed El-Baradei, head of the Vienna, Austria-based International Atomic Energy Agency, was quoted in the Friday edition of the Sueddeutsche Zeitung daily as saying that there is "a whole list of countries that posses the ingredients to assemble an atomic weapon in a matter of a few months, that possess fissile material or the technical means to create it."
"Iran is also on this path," the paper quoted El-Baradei as saying.
He went on to say that "we live in a world in which atomic weapons promise power and prestige," noting that Iran's desire to possess a nuclear weapon is a product of "an underlying feeling of insecurity and the desire to be recognized as a regional power."
You were saying?
Goose2,
Possesssing the ingredients is not equal to an atomic bomb. The same ingredients are used to produce electrical power, or didn't you know that?
What are you? A Zionist warmonger propagandist?
>>Possesssing the ingredients is not equal to an atomic bomb. The same ingredients are used to produce electrical power, or didn't you know that?<<
Actually, no. That is not true. You do not use the same ingredients to build a bomb as you do a reactor. Get some science.
Everyone here says Iran is not trying to build a bomb. They quote the director of the IAEA over and over and here he is saying something quite different. Guess it's nice to be able to cherry-pick your reality isn't it.
>>What are you? A Zionist warmonger propagandist?<<
Nope, but I bet you're a Palestinian. Anytime someone points out something outside your fabric of lies, you, Salior Moon, call them a zionist warmonger whilst your cousins fire missle after missle after missle and dancing in the streets with guns. I will take being a zionist in your estimation over being a savage.
Remember that in 100 years, your people will be in the same grot holes in Gaza and the West Bank while Israel is a modern democracy just a few yards away across the wall.
Have a nice one Salior Moon.
I wonder how long it will take for Mr. Putin and Mr. Medvedev to give those defensive weapons to Syria and Lebanon?
Once in place, if the terrorist nation of Israel makes a move against ANOTHER nation who's land they want, then Russia can solve many problems for many nations by proxy.
Amazing, isn't it? The Zionists screw 300,000,000 morons in such a way that they look forward to being ravaged....Now THAT'S saying alot for either Zionist diplomacy or U.S. sheeple's idiocy. The corrupt "leaders'" whore-ish grovelling before AIPAC notwithstanding. ANYthing to get elected huh?
Even treason.
Salute
The difference between Obama and McCain is that Obama is open to ideas that conflict with those he now holds (no doubt because of years of Zionist propaganda from AIPAC that both he and Biden have been subjected to).
The difference between Jews and Zionists is that extreme Zionists believe that God, via the Bible, means for them to have Palestine as their homeland. This becomes their "authority" to steal land and water, to build illegal settlements, and to imprison 1.5 million suffering Palestinians in the hell that is the Gaza Strip. Zionist extremists are to Judaism what the Taliban is to Islam, a form of violent extremism. (Good News: A recent poll by JStreet.org reveals a strong movement toward peace within Israel and the U.S.)
The difference between McCain/Bush/Cheney and Zionism: None.
"The difference between Jews and Zionists is that extreme Zionists believe that God, via the Bible, means for them to have Palestine as their homeland."
What you're describing there is religious Zionism, not Zionism as a whole. Theodor Herzl, the founder of the early Zionist movement, would have been surprised to learn that he believed that God willed the Jews anything, being that he was an atheist.
There exists a distinction between religious and secular Zionism (both awful ideologies btw). Sharon, for instance, was also not particularly religious. Same goes for a great many past and current members of the Israeli government.
Sorry Bernice but I think your comparison is inapt. I don't think the taliban has a particular ideology that tells them it is OK to take over other people's land. Perhaps you'd care to elaborate on the equivalence to which you referred. If you mean that extremists often use similar tactics to gain their objectives, then there was no need to refer to the taliban alone, as there are many extremists to which that would equally apply. Your comment could easily push some anti-Islam buttons rather than making a clear and cogent comment on the nature of extremism in general.
But zionism has some unique qualities that are not readily transferable and should not be ignored or lumped in with other non-expansionist(territorially) extremists.
Russia has said on many occasions don't attack Iran. If Israel is stupid enough to attack Iran I hope Russia follows through with that warning and protects Iran. Then we will have peace in the middle east.
This Iran attack has been a major distraction for over a year now. Iraq? Afghanistan? Never heard of them.
But considering Israel is asking our permission, it does shed light on US involvement in other conflicts from Israel's assault on Lebanon to their bombing of Syria, even to Georgia's bombing of S. Ossetia. These are all US proxy wars.
z
Even though Bush said NO to Israel on the bombing of Iran nuke sites, it may still
be his intention to do so. He is totally not credible.
And Bush is working on getting an Army platoon trained in crowd control in defiance
of the law. So, when the attack happens, he declares marshal law, and our citizens
revolt in the streets, he's got it covered.
Since when did the United States get the authority to decide which country can have nuclear capabilities? Aren't we (the US) responsible for shredding the Nuclear Non Proliferation treaties? We (Bush) In what language does Bush = God?
"In what language does Bush = God?"
bushit.
>>Aren't we (the US) responsible for shredding the Nuclear Non Proliferation treaties?<<
How's that again? What part of the NPT (there is only one BTW) did we shred? How many countries have gained nuclear weapons since then and what did the US have to do with any? Of all the treaties we've signed, the NPT is the one single solitary treaty we have best followed.
I think your hate got ahead of your brain on that one.
The deal to exchange information with India abrogates the NPT.
Goose2,
I think ignorance and disinformation got ahead of you.
Under NPT the U.S. and other nuclear powers should gradually reduce and finally get rid of all their nuclear arsonel. Not only the U.S. has failed to do that, but also in clear violation it has been producing a new generation of nuclear weapons such as mni-nukes, bunker buster nukes, etc.
Is it ignorance, or false propaganda?
Do you realize that ASSININE statements may reveal association with the Prince of Darkness?
The USA specializes in demonisation and hate.
>>The USA specializes in demonisation and hate<<
The toast flies high in the morning...
Carnival in Venice is nice...
Wombats are bigger than I thought...
All these four statements have one thing in common. They have NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS STORY!
Stay on topic Braithwa
The Chair is against the Wall
John has a long moustache
Goose2,
Hey, what have you become now, an editor in chief? Man, you really should go to Faux News where you belong.
The following is an excerpt from a recently published book by Andrew Bacevich, entitled: "The End of American Exceptionalism."
"According to (C. Wright) Mills, the power elite and those trafficking in ideas useful to its core mebership share a 'cast of mind that defines international reality as basically military.' ... For members of the power elite, imperfect security is by definition inadequate security. Where gaps exist, they need to be filled. Defenses must be shored up. Yet, ultimately, as the writers James Chace and Caleb Carr once observed, absolute security 'cannot be negotiated; it can only be won.' And winning implies the possession of military might along with a willingness to use it.
"In consonance with this 'military ascendancy,' these American hawks are inclined to see the United States as already beset by actual dangerous threats, with even greater perils lurking just around the corner. With a low tolerance for uncertainty, they are highly tuned to the putative risks of waiting on events, while discounting the hazards posed by precipitate action. ...
"For his part, Vice President Cheney was ... explicit. Even a remotely suspected threat (that Iraq might have weapons of mass destruction) could provoke a sufficient rationale for action. 'If there's a one percent chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon,' Cheney once remarked, 'we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response.'
"Perceived threats, even when faint, improbable, or (like that Iraq nuclear program) at worst distant, invariably demand an urgent response, which no less invariably involves enhancing, reconfiguring, deploying, or actually using American coercive power."
This is not only the mind-set of the power elite in the United States, it's also the mind-set of the power elite in Israel.
Indeed, hawks in the United States are becoming more and more like hawks in Israel, in that, as Bacevich puts it: ""Perceived threats, even when faint, improbable, or (like that Iraq nuclear program) at worst distant, invariably demand an urgent response, which no less invariably involves enhancing, reconfiguring, deploying, or actually using ... coercive power."
Moreover, this is a mind-set, a "cast of mind" that neither major party candidate is willing to challenge -- Obama no more than McCain.
-- Obama and McCain both want to escalate the war in Afghanistan.
-- Obama and McCain have both signed off on an invasion of Pakistan. Indeed, the invasion has already begun -- with not a peep from either major-party candidate.
-- Obama and McCain have both signed off on an invasion of Iran. A few months ago the Senate indicated to Bush that should he invade Iran, they would not object.
-- Obama and McCain both want to leave the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq to the discretion of the commanders in the field; re. Obama's July 2, 2008 speech in Colorado Springs. (Lots of luck finding an Iraqi commander who's a dove!)
-- Obama and McCain both want to *increase* the Pentagon budget -- with the Pentagon budget now over $550 billion a year -- and the Iraq and Afghanistan wars costing the American taxpayers $15 billion a month. (Not a year, a *month.*) See the following -- http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home
-- Obama and McCain have both indicated that "no weapon is off the table." Meaning: the use of nuclear weapons is a military option.
And these two (corporatist) candidates are supposed to represent *oppositional* parties???
How much is Obama going to "change" if we already know that he fundamentally agrees with McCain on a host of issues, both domestic as well as international?
Question: What's a sane person to do?
Answer: Reject T.I.N.A. -- reject the idea that "There Is No Alternative" -- that there is no alternative to the Democratic/Republican duopoly.
There is.
As Donna Volatile put it in a recent article:
"If you want to help put a stop to the rigged election game, if you really want to make a difference and you want your voice of disapproval to be heard, then VOTE! Vote for ANYBODY but the two buffoons who have been pre-selected for you by the global elitist machine. Send a message, loud and clear: We refuse your choices.
"Vote Nader, vote McKinney, vote Ron Paul, vote Bob Barr, write in a vote, do whatever but don't support the corrupt system. Commit to a protest vote.
Vote your conscience, do not vote under the “lesser of two-evils” threat because then YOU are part of the problem, not part of the possible solution.
"We've been on this trip too many times before. From “hope and help is on the way” Kerry to Obama's constant harping on “Change We Can Believe In”, you have been sold a bill of goods from first to last. For all of Obama's talk of change, his words and actions show quite clearly, he means more of the same.
Click here for the entire article -- http://www.counterpunch.org/volatile08282008.html
I'll stand with you at the barracades anytime
Wouldn't it be nice if the storied Europeaen Union (that wants to challenge us as a Superpwer) might take care of a Major World Emergency for like...once?
Are you Men or Mice?...Squeak up*
you have a stake in this also....and a nuclear armed Iran isn't a good thing
*that doesn't go for the UK or any other NATO member that sent Troops to Afghanistan to actually fight
SnowWolf & Goose2,
I think you two are connected, like belonging to the same herd. You know what I mean?
Herd?...I think I'm offended...
if he is a Goose wouldn't that be "Flock"?...and wouldn't I be in a "Pack"?
I banish you to 48 hours of Animal Planet....*G*
F*ck off, Sara Palin
Dude, FYI: the US is the only nation that has used nuclear weapons in war.
How about a world-wide ban instead of solving aggressive problems with machismo?
That Corks not goinhg back in the bottle...U.S. Russia, France, the UK and China with Nukes?...not too bad...none of those are crazy...
India, Pakistan...Iran?...Now we're a bit "out there"
I'm not implying India is run by crazies but the Government in Pakistan is barely in control and the Iranians...well
SnowWolf,
You did not mention the 200 nukes in Israel. I'm sure everbody on this thread knows why.
Rumor Control Central says 150....
But the only person to ever confirm it is Joe "Plugs" Biden in one of his famous foot-in-mouth moments
Wrong again SnowWolf:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu
yes, so much different than the American government, which represents the American people. Glad the American people haven't lost control of their nukes like those crazy folks in Pakistan & Iran.
We're using depleted uranium right now. Has the United States ever stopped using nuclear weapons
DP is not the Boogeyman that Anti-Military types woud lead you to believe...your Cel-Phone is probably more harmful
(Unless, of course, you get hit by the round...*s*)
Shades of Austin Powers. I am inclined to think of Israel as Mini US.
An economic "collapse" makes for an effective distraction, and smoke screen.
I'm not convinced about this article, based on second-hand information from a friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend.
Why would Olmert divulge his discussions with Bush to Euro-trash (especially when Olmert's ratings in Israel is in the gutter)? And why would the so-called "European Official" not take it to his/her government where it would immediately hit the global fan?
Methinks this is typical Guardian attention-grabbing garbage.
If I was doing something wrong or had done something wrong and wanted to get away with it, I would do what I had to do to keep it hidden from everyone and if some one knew I would have to take action against them. That's what they teach on TV. So is that why Israel wants to bomb Iran?
Nobody preemptively fights a bully. If its a fight, its war. Bullies preemptively strike the weaker party.
I wonder how much of our banking system Israel owns. I would bet a fair percentage of our manufacturing now that its all overseas.
"Bush's decision to refuse to offer any support for a strike on Iran appeared to be based on two factors..."
The only probable reason is that he wants to do it himself... to pad his "legacy".
Meanwhile, efforts to supply Israel with cruise missiles continues behind the scene.
>>Meanwhile, efforts to supply Israel with cruise missiles continues behind the scene.<<
Interesting. Doesn't Iran have cruise missles? Someone here stated that they are getting SS-N-22 cruise missles from Russia. How would supplying Israel be any different? Seems that everyone is getting missles these days. I think my neighbor has one...
Aren't SS-N-22's Anti-Ship Missiles?
Yes. Designed by Russia to defeat AEGIS and sink American aircraft carriers. Iran has an "unkown" number of them.
They fly at close to mach three and perform hard evasive manuevers in the final approach before delivering a payload that will cut a ship in half.
They are deployed, hidden, and moved frequently on the bluffs overlooking the
Straits of Hormuz.
Exocets Exponentially Potentiated.
Yes...I've been through the straits...but the active threat at the time was Chinese "Silkworms"
Technically, yes, but they have the range to hit Israel from Iran and they can be armed with a 20kt warhead.
Of course that would only be a threat if Iran were working on nuclear weapons and we all know they aren't... as someone here pointed out, only the US has every used nuclear weapons in anger.
I am sure that no country other than the US would ever be willing to use nuclear weapons if they had them and had an enemy in the neighborhood and were funding terrorists and maybe... oh possibly... were run by a group of theocratic nutballs.
I hear my Republican Congressman saying that he's 'emphatically' against the Wall Street bailout, while the Democrats are busy sugar-coating this crap-cake to shove down our throats.
Now, I find myself agreeing with a decision of George W. Bush.
Is this Backwards Week and nobody told me?
Maybe if the Saudi royal elites would quit giving oil to Israel would Israel be finally forced to come to grips with itself. I cannot believe the the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia are "allies" on the oxymoronic "war on terror". Instead of putting oil to quality production and put conservation and efficiency first, we've wasted it away with wars and energy guzzlers. Maybe America deserves to finish dying as the financial meltdown gets worse and the foreign policy failures get worse. Israel and Saudi Arabia will follow suit and the working class in both those nations will finally have a chance to learn that they have been exploited and pitted against each other by the elites. And it's no coincidence that Israel and Saudi Arabia lack a middle class while the middle class in America or what's actually left of it shrinks to oblivion.
FrederickJohnson,
You said nothing but the truth.
If bush won't attack Iran, mccain certainly will (as he sings his infamous song...). Why do you think lieberman is always seen walking hand-in-hand with mccain? Imagine lieberman as sec of state? His first act will be to attack Iran in order to protect his homeland (israel). cheney still might attack Iran between now and the election, or the election and Jan 20 - no matter who wins in Nov.
How bad is it? It's so bad that the bloodthirsty Moron-in-Chief does not want an other war. We can't afford the occupations we have now in Afganistan and Iraq. Israel is a rouge nation and a danger to all her neighbors. The United States is a rouge nation and a threat to all the world. The impending death of capitalism may be the only way to stop the killing. No bail out for the crooks on Wall Street. Any questions?
I get it now, because the US Government will NOT allow an attack on Iran, that makes it a rogue nation?
And what does Iran have to do with Wall Street, or does your thought process only allow you to think in slogans?