Ice-Free Arctic Could Be Here in 23 Years
The Arctic ice cap has collapsed at an unprecedented rate this summer and levels of sea ice in the region now stand at a record low, scientists said last night. Experts said they were “stunned” by the loss of ice, with an area almost twice as big as Britain disappearing in the last week alone. So much ice has melted this summer that the north-west passage across the top of Canada is fully navigable, and observers say the north-east passage along Russia’s Arctic coast could open later this month. If the increased rate of melting continues, the summertime Arctic could be totally free of ice by 2030.
Mark Serreze, an Arctic specialist at the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre at Colorado University in Denver which released the figures, said: “It’s amazing. It’s simply fallen off a cliff and we’re still losing ice.” The Arctic has now lost about a third of its ice since satellite measurements began 30 years ago, and the rate of loss has accelerated sharply since 2002.
Dr Serreze said: “If you asked me a couple of years ago when the Arctic could lose all of its ice, then I would have said 2100, or 2070 maybe. But now I think that 2030 is a reasonable estimate. It seems that the Arctic is going to be a very different place within our lifetimes, and certainly within our children’s lifetimes.”
The new figures show that sea ice extent is currently down to 4.4m square kilometres (1.7m square miles) and still falling. The previous record low was 5.3m square kilometres in September 2005. From 1979 to 2000 the average sea ice extent was 7.7m square kilometres. The minimum extent of sea ice usually occurs late in September each year, as the freezing Arctic winter begins to bite.
The sea ice usually then begins to freeze again over the winter. But Dr Serreze said that would be difficult this year. “This summer we’ve got all this open water and added heat going into the ocean. That is going to make it much harder for the ice to grow back. What we’ve seen this year sets us up for an even worse year next year.” The winter ice has already failed to make up for increased losses in the summer in each of the last two years.
Changes in wind and ocean circulation patterns can help reduce sea ice extent, but Dr Serreze said the main culprit was man-made global warming. “The rules are starting to change and what’s changing the rules is the input of greenhouse gases. This year puts the exclamation mark on a series of record lows that tell us something is happening.”
The dramatic loss is further bad news for the region’s wildlife which relies on the sea ice, such as polar bears. The animals use its coastal fringes to find food, and as the summer ice retreats to the north, they must swim further to hunt for seals. Some colonies of bears have already showed signs of malnutrition and biologists say there could be a severe drop in their population within a few decades, though they may not go extinct.
Yesterday’s announcement will also increase political interest in the Arctic, with a number of countries currently jostling to exploit the oil and gas reserves believed to lie under the ocean, which could become more accessible as the icy cover retreats. Last month Russia claimed a huge area around the north pole, and Denmark and Canada are preparing similar claims, which rely on showing that a chain of underwater mountains that runs across the region are connected to their respective continental shelves.
© 2007 The Guardian
This is not good news.
This likely represents the start of a number of runaway warming mechanisms, most of which many scientists are aware of but avoid speaking of them in publis for fear of being called a “scaremonger” (The only exceptions being Steven Hawking and Lovelock). When all that ice-free water warms to the point of melting the methane clathrates on the sea bed - plus those in the melting permafrost, we will be faced with at a minimum, a repeat of the great Permian extinction. But there wasn’t all that extra anthropogenic CO2 back then so ultimate Vesusification remains a possibility.
I wish I was kidding.
But we aren’t dead yet. While massively cuts in CO2 are necessary - starting with ending all this elitist NIMBY opposition to wind power - and punitive restrictons in personal motor fuel usage, thay won’t be enough.
The time has come to also consider the deployment of solar-blocking technologies - such as stratospheric SO2 injections, and biosphere engineerring methods, like iron fertilization of the oceans to promote phytoplankton growth and carbon absorbtion.
Virtually all of the consensus projections regarding how quickly we are crippling the physiology of the Earth are too long by an order of magnitude. Hansen has observed (in “Scientific Reticence and Sea Level Rise”) that scientists tend to avoid sticking their necks out. This article’s projection of an ice-free Arctic by 2030 also looks strangely cautious, given the behavior of Arctic sea-ice this summer.
The University of Illinois site “Cryosphere Today”
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/
calibrates sea-ice extent differently than Colorado University: they measured the previous minimum extent at 4 million square kilometers, and the current extent (as of August 28) at 3 million - with another month of melting to go. At this rate Santa Claus will need to find new headquarters very soon indeed.
The Arctic and Antarctic are like batteries which fuel the all the ocean currents, and the whole Earth’s climate system. No authority really has any idea what the result of this experiment (disconnecting the batteries) is going to be.
I give up. The human race deserves this hell we’ve made for ourselves. Global warming won’t kill us fast enough, let’s just nuke each other to hell.
Man (and especially the US administration) hasn’t yet mentally reached the first stage of realization about this dire threat.
I agree with PJD, but if governments can’t stretch their minds and imaginations as far as stage one, what hope is there that they would even consider stuff like biosphere engineering etc? They all need a swift kick up the behind from Mother Nature, they’ll get it - but the trouble is, it will then probably be too late.
ARA, I don’t think collective punishment of all humanity is appropriate to the ecological “crimes” that have been committed.
Gore said that we have to stop people from going directly from denial to despair without an “action” phase.
I thinkif we ever got enough people into the sweet spot between denial and despair, we could change the world before breakfast.
Gore/Gravel/Green Party 2008
How about this (in fact someone here recently had a link on this topic with all sorts of awesome documents…)
Anyhow, Solar Combined with Mirrors.
The mirros can either: bounce onto the solar or bounce back out.
Then: More solar energy and less global warming.
Now: All we need to do is optimize……
Peace,
ken hausle
They have been filling our skies with “chem-trails” to diffuse sunlight but it is too little too late, a band-aid not a real solution, and adds more pollution, aluminum silicate, into the environment.
The auto industry is behind a lot of the disinformation on greenhouse gases, we could start by throwing them and all their people in jail, along with other lobbyists and politicians fighting global warming legislation. They have freedom of speech but fraud is illegal.
And trading “carbon credits” needs to be abolished, it is a stupid deal that only delays major polluters from making real changes.
In a time when the window of opportunity for doing something about global warming is closing we have a stupid, greedy leadership that you and I allow to stay in power. Ironic certainly. Coincidence? Maybe not.
Maybe God has finally had a belly full of the human race. I can’t believe He has put up with our doings this long: Shitting in our idyllic home and on all other species.
“God gave Noah the rainbow sign: No more water, the fire next time”.
Hey PJD,
What is Vesusification? I looked for it on the internet and couldn’t find anything about it.
Clark,
You’re right… it’s simply disheartening not to see the ultra-conservatives screaming that there’s no such thing as global warming, but instead to see all the moderates believing them, because they don’t want to believe that anything will change.
Termite–
I think he meant Venusification. Making our atmosphere like that of Venus.
Its too bad other superior species(all the non human ones) have to pay the price for the failure of one.
And the polar bear is likely to go extinct just from being caught along side drilling. Since all the countries are thinking how they can make quick money off it.
Punitively limit your own fuel use. Refuse to travel more than a few miles for the dismally selfish desire to see relatives or go on vacation, neither of which are crucial to life. Refuse to buy products not guaranteed to be green, and refuse those from overseas because of the miles.
Quit sitting around waiting to be led like sheep to do what you already claim to want, and take your OWN action, TODAY, NOW.
It is much worse than this. The jet aircraft and their cloud-making are distorting the warming effect. It is about 50 percent worse than it seems due to global dimming. If and when the dimming clears, the heat-up will be instant due to increased solar radiation hitting the surface. This came out on a PBS Nova program last night. Here is the transcript:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3310_sun.html
I’m afraid the positive feedback loops which amplify the harmful effects of human actions in the world are going to continue to function in an accelerating manner. All the more reason to re-organize our society (the US to start with) with radical conservation and a shift to renewable energy resources. See www.rmi.org.
The US economy did an instant about-face in the period from 1942 to 1945. We can do it again in the quest to make the great turning and solve the global problematique.
While it is worthwhile to limit your own consumption of fossil fuels and anything produced using them–as mtnGoat suggests–few people are in a position to quit their jobs, stop heating their homes, and stop buying groceries.
On the other hand, you might be very wise indeed to begin positioning yourself so that you can survive without buying food or heating fuel–and without a job.
The situation is, I believe, urgent enough that we should all take steps to ensure our own survival. Even if we do this, it may or may not be too late to save the planet–or ourselves. But sheer self-preservation should be dictating that we make a start at self-sufficiency, as independnt as possible from fossil fuels.
TERMITE
yeah, what is that: vesusification. maybe it was a misspelling and should be venusification……….like we’ll end up like venus. look that up. whatever, it’s dismal.
I’m now looking into buying a Prius.
I fear “capitalism” is not equipped to deal with the changes that are necessary. There may not be a way to “save the planet” and make a profit from it. It’s going to take more than polar bears starving to get business and political leaders to change their thinking.
But each individual can begin to make changes. When Hummers and Suburbans stop selling and electric cars become more popular, when people demand from their boss that they work from home at least one day a week, when people realize that travel by foot and bike function quite well, when people stop stigmatizing those who show up for work sweaty because they just walked to work, and when growing your own food is “fashionable”…maybe then the changes will begin to take hold.
“few people are in a position to quit their jobs, stop heating their homes, and stop buying groceries.”
Then they’ll just slowly wait for someone else to do something, adding to the harm every second of every hour of every day. What is more important, a job, a warm house, avoiding a diet of roots and beans…or the entire planet and the future of humanity?
For all the complaints about selfish people I read on this board, every single person who prefers to be comfortable, well fed, and mobile rather than acting to save the planet and humanity, need only look in the mirror to see a person making very selfish choices. IF you actually believe that all our lives must change, waiting one more second to drastically and radically alter your own because you prefer comfort or convenience is as selfish as selfish gets.
I own a prius and its a great car. I get over 50 miles to the gallon with mine and its a comfortable car to drive. Its the best car I’ve ever owned.
………………………………………
The underlying problem is that some people (like Justice Scalia)are ignorant and refuse to learn about or listen to scientific thought. Its easier to have faith and to form religious groups than to learn about science (and I am a Christian) Some people in power believe they can make reality by manipulating others to believe as they do.
We have not applied scientific methods to decisions about politics or in how to deal with the human problems of interactions with each other.
The result is our hard technology is progressing while our care for one another is ignored.
Maybe we are just too flawed as a species and will go the way of the dinosaur.
Save the planet. But, also don’t forget to talk about saving the planet.
I get odd looks just for taking my used grocery bags back to the store so I can re-use them again and thus eliminate that much more garbage…it’s time for people to WAKE UP!!!
URGENT ISSUES like this seem to not be in the minds of the average public yet. I think, as much as anything, it takes personal dialogue for this info to get across. So let’s get out there and keep a talkin’…
In only 23 years!
That’s WAY ahead of schedule!
Good Job Exxon/Mobil!
Everyone give’em a hand.
PJD your comments were most appropriate. Excellent!
I am already doing a lot-
I haven’t driven or ridden in a car at all in couple of weeks. I don’t use AC. I use socialistic public transit or a personal electric vespa-style motor scooter (gets 395 equivalent mpg). I purchase locally-generated wind energy offsets form iberdola/Community Energy. (If it’s humanity or an occasional ridge-soaring hawk, goodbye hawk). I selected my 1100 sq ft (me wife 2 cays - plenty big)home location in an older compact community - a walk to basic shopping and public transit, with work just 5 miles away - using the electric scooters an all by the worst weather days.
BUT, right now, it is all for naught, since I’m the only one doing these things, and in any voluntary system, there will always be lots of cheats, negating the effectiveness of the actions. That’s why, just like any sport, societies have laws and regulations - to stop the cheats, eh, MtnGoat?
Carbon sequestration, monoterpene production, and alternative fuel production using Cannabis hemp may be a way to work with nature to fix nature.
“Yesterday’s announcement will also increase political interest in the Arctic, with a number of countries currently jostling to exploit the oil and gas reserves believed to lie under the ocean, which could become more accessible as the icy cover retreats.”
Great, so even global warming will be exploited to make new wealth for the oil and gas cartels! You idiots!
Not agreeing with you on an effect is not ‘cheating’. And not one thing they can do eliminates the act of you not taking your own action…which I commend you for. Otherwise we wind right back in ‘everybody does it territory’. *Regardless* of what anyone else does or does not do, reducing your own footprint in counts.
I too watched the global dimming program on Nova last night and came away scared as hell. I left the “denial” stage a few years back, but it is very hard not to go straight into the “despair” state. I try very hard to do my part (walking to work, ect), but it is hard that while I am walking to work someone drives by in their Suburban in their daily commute (alone in the vehicle).
Has Al Gore come out & endorsed anyone yet? Is there a “Draft Gore” movement out there? Does anyone have a web site to that effect?
As someone who lives in Iowa, I am attending all the presidential candidate events and pressing them on what they plan to do about global warming and if they will make it THE issue that they run on. I tell you what, after listening to the lip service that most of them spew out, I don’t hold out much hope of any leadership on this issue from the politicians. If anything is going to happen, we the people must do it!
You should spend less time focussed on what people you don’t know are doing when you don’t know why, and more on what YOU do. You have no idea how long they have been alone for, where they live, what they do, or what else is in that rig. Let’s cease the scapegoating of others as a replacement for our own actions.
We can get rid of fossil fuels and nuclear power in 30 to 50 years. I have just finished a study of this for the United States. See the summary at
http://www.ieer.org/carbonfree/summary.pdf
Clark Kent says that “if we ever get enough people into the sweet spot between denial and despair, we could change the world before breakfast.”
I suggest that we change the world WITH breakfast (add lunch and dinner, too). The “inconvenient truth” that Al Gore is missing is the fact that eating meat is the driving force (according to World Watch) “behind virtually every major category of environmental damage now threatening the future of humans - deforestation, erosion, fresh water scarcity, air and water pollution, climate change, biodiversity loss, social injustice, the destabilization of communities, and the spread of disease.”
A United Nations report stated that “raising animals for food generates more greenhouse gases than all the cars and trucks in the world combined.”
Just think of it, you can save the world (and yourself) with your fork by eating a healthy and delicious vegetarian or vegan diet. You don’t have to wait for Congress or Big Business, you just have to find “the sweet spot between denial and despair.”
What do you think it will take for Georgie to admit to global warming?
When the floodwaters crash through his bedroom window at the White House?
sharonvegan, You are right on.
All of us look everywhere for solutions except under our own noses. We don’t want to stop doing what we have always done, just because we have always done it.
Our disrespect for ourselves spills over onto our brother species, and onto the earth that is our mother and sustains us. Without meat we would have all the benefits you mention plus, I believe with my whole heart, world peace would finally be a possibility.
Of course we are going to kill each other as long as we torture our food sources, attack and gorge ourselves on our food, and make sex a blasphemy.
Of course we are going to have drug problems as long as we continue to make the planet a hell on earth.
If you can’t see it’s because you don’t want to see.
Could it be that Nuclear Energy is the lesser evil?
Hell, if we’re going to go out in a blaze of climatological catastrophe let’s at least get a big angry mob down at the White House and rip those freaks out of there. And while we’re at it, let’s do Congress and the oil company bigwigs too.
The show’s over. No one in power will take the steps necessary to save the planet. They still think they can compromise with physics. By the time they figure out that physics and the planet don’t give a damn, never did, never will, the catastrophe will be a done deal.
See you in Hell. Oh, wait, we’re at the gates now.
Could it be that Nuclear Energy is the lesser evil?
I thought that Hillary Clinton was the Lesser Evil!
PS: I’ve always wanted to see Santa Claus in a Speedo.
Didn’t they drop The Blob in the Arctic in the 1950s?
If the Artic thaws, won’t we have another Blob-problem?
“The Iraqi Resistance is by definition democratic as it is the spontaneous expression of a people who took its destiny into its hands, and is by definition progressive as it defends the interests of the people.”
“The Iraqi Resistance and the other resistance movements of the Middle East are movements of the peoples and by nature egalitarian.”
America has been invaded and occupied by a fascist regime. It’s time for an American Resistance.
NUCLEAR POWER AND URANIUM MINING by Dr. Helen Caldicott
(Published in the Adelaide Advertiser, June 29, 2007)
Contrary to industry propaganda nuclear power contributes substantially to
global warming. Fossil fuels used to mine and enrich uranium, construct and
decommission the reactor, transport and store the intensely radioactive
waste for eons of time produce global warming gases. Presently a gas fired
electricity generator emits three times more CO2 than a similar sized atomic
reactor, but as the supply of high grade uranium ore declines, a nuclear
plant will, within decades, generate as much CO2 as a gas fired generator.
Uranium supplies are finite. If global electricity was nuclear generated
today, only nine years supply of uranium remain.
Despite massive government subsidies in the US, Wall Street and Standard and
Poors are reluctant to invest in nuclear powerhaving been severely burnt in
the 1970s and 80s when Three Mile Island and Chernobyl caused the cost of
nuclear reactors to soar. The 2005 US energy bill allocated $13 billion to
the nuclear “renaissance” because the nuclear industry is simply not viable
without government support.
Nuclear power is a tenuous investment. A nuclear accident or terrorist
attack would signal the end of nuclear power. David Lochbaum, a nuclear
engineer from the Union of Concerned Scientists says “It is not if but when
there is a meltdown” because of lax and inefficient safety procedures
overseen by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission at the 103 operating US
reactors. A meltdown could permanently contaminate an area the size of
Pennsylvania with over 100 radioactive elements.
Surprisingly security has virtually not been tightened at the 103 US
reactors since 9/11 even though one of the targets of the terrorists was the
Indian Point reactor complex 35 miles from Manhattan.
Nuclear power is medically dangerous. Operating nuclear reactors routinely
emit radioactive materials into the air and water including the fat soluble
noble gases, xenon, krypton and argon which are readily absorbed through the
lung and migrate in the blood to fatty tissues of the abdominal fat pad and
upper thighs where they irradiate the reproductive organs with high doses of
mutagenic gamma radiation. Carcinogenic tritium - radioactive hydrogen is
also routinely released.
But more is at stake. 30 tons of highly carcinogenic nuclear waste is
manufactured yearly in each reactor which is stored in cooling pools
adjacent to the reactors. A terrorist attack on a pool containing 10 to 30
times more radiation than the reactor itself could release massive amounts
of radiation devastating surrounding communities and agricultural areas for
ever.
Nuclear waste must be isolated from the environment for at least 250,000
years, a physical and scientific impossibility. Odourless, tasteless and
invisible radioactive isotopes seep and leak into the environment, where
they concentrate in the food chain, enter the human body, and migrate to
specific organs irradiating and mutating surrounding cells for many years.
The incubation time for cancer is insidious - 5 to 60 years. Over time,
future generations will inevitably experience epidemics of cancer, leukemia
and genetic disease.
Nuclear power is a transient generator of electricity but its actual legacy
will be medically catastrophic. Public health denotes that if a disease is
incurable the only recourse is prevention. Uranium mining and its offspring
nuclear power are therefore medically contraindicated.
Lets see, two years ago the best scientific predictions of the arctic ice melt, was from 80 to 120 years. Now the scientific prediction had dropped to only 23 years. At that rate of scientific “predicting” in two more years, it will be Uhhhhhhh,___ Oh-oh!! Wonder how long it will be, before the billions of tons of methane frozen in the perma-frost has thawed and our atmosphere catches on fire? Maybe this fall????? Maybe not? ____ Whenever, don’t bother turning your computer off, it will shut down automatically.
Capitalism can’t solve the global warming crisis, or the problem of world hunger, or the problem of renewable energy. Nor will individual acts of conservation by well-meaning progressives be sufficient. It requires a thoroughgoing reworking of the way in which humans relate to the earth and produce their food and other necessities of life. This will not come so long as capitalists, with their ineluctable drive for profits and accumulation of capital, are in charge of the world.
It requires revolutionary change. Unless Hugo Chavez manages to prove otherwise, such change will not come through the ballot box.
KEM PATRICK - Like Earthian and MRFOAD I watched the NOVA program on global dimming last night - Really scary and Earthian gives a good link to it. But I wonder about something that wasn’t mentioned - the decline of the phytoplankton count. With less actual sunlight reaching the earth (literally true, photons blocked by clouds and smog), the plankton aren’t able to do their thing (photosynthesis) and thus sustain themselves and produce oxygen for the rest of us. This could explain the mysterious decline of the phytoplankton, which I know you’ve puzzled about. (Just connecting dots here -)
sharonvegan. Really? Are these facts straight? A United Nations report stated that “raising animals for food generates more greenhouse gases than all the cars and trucks in the world combined.”
Then why the hell is everyone giving me shit about driving my car?
I could be guilt-free just by being a vegetarian.
But why stop there?
I researched into it and there is something worse than livestock. Yep, it’s RICE.
Look. I read it on the internet.
“Significantly, the balance is largely the result of human activities such as rice cultivation (19 percent), livestock (11.5 percent), landfills (8 percent), biomass burning (11.5 percent), venting from oil and gas wells (4 percent), and coal mining (6 percent).”
All you need to do is type methane and rice.
So I say, “Let’s abolish RICE first”!!!
It’s not like anyone needs it or that it may be anyone’s staple of food.
But; now, thinking in hindsight, they may resist. We could send troops to end this vulgar attack on our earth’s climate.
I say, “Let them eat cake”, which is from corn, I think.
Oh my god, *everything* destroys the planet. I’m sure the problem is humanity and their evil ways. There are probably too many people of course, and I’m sure a huge proportion of them are greedy, mean, evil, stupid, or backwards, or some combination of all three. All this must be their fault.
Unless the USA, the largest emitter of carbon pollution, seriously undertakes the meaningful measures necessary to curtail our contribution to greenhouse gasses, the less industrialized & third world nations will have no incentives to control their emissions. This can never happen until Americans render ineffective the special interests and their supporting administrations that have prevented the necessary reforms through deception and fabricated science–albeit with the help of an apathetic populace and defaulting legislators. Contrary to their assertions, the measures to reduce carbon pollution can only improve our economy and security by reducing our oil imports while improving our health & quality of life.
By placing unlerned and corrupt individuals in the presidency over intelligent and principled candidates, those apathetic Americans deserve the worst government and environment that money can buy. Consider Regan (the great simple minded communicator to the simple minded electorate) over Jimmy Carter; and Bush (chartered by God and oil) over Al Gore. Need I say more?
It is the surface and underground coal fire’s of China and India that are one of the biggest causes of the ice melt.I care about Polar bears that are drowning at sea because of no ice.I do not belive anything that the United Nations have to say about the ice melt.
that’s all
good night and thank you
“Contrary to their assertions, the measures to reduce carbon pollution can only improve our economy and security by reducing our oil imports while improving our health & quality of life.”
Sure, spending more to get less, creating all the pollution necessary to make the ‘green’ replacement systems, and spending money to replace what already exists, all the while intentionally forcing people to pay more, to force them to use less, really adds up to an improved economy. Next you’ll tell us running around breaking windows improves economies too, because of the spending it generates.
Just had an idea. Since you are claiming global warming measures will improve the economy, how about we do this…we add a clause to any bills dealing with reducing emissions stating that they will be recinded if they result in lower productivity, reduced GNP, or increased cost per unit on commodities.
Since you are certain combating warming will not damage an economy, a bill with these terms will result in a permanent actions, right?
Paul Magill Smith learned in a college graduate Geology class, that termites eating wood, produce more C02 than all other emitters combined. It’s termite farts. For every human there are forty billion termites. So, if we start right away to breed Aardvarks and anteaters, we can all drive a tour bus to work, park it in the rush hour traffic jams and watch fox news on our televion sets. BTW, that’s true about the termites and the rice info offered by Damon.
Grandma, in a more serous vein. If the ocean’s phytoplanton numbers drop another 20 to 30%, ( they have already reduced by 10% in the past few years) the only humans left alive will be the ones orbiting Earth in the space station. The toughest one will be the last one. The rest will have been meals ready to eat. ___ Any girls up there now?
vets wrote: “I’m now looking into buying a Prius.”
Vets, please don’t buy a Prius. The best thing one could do is to get along without *any* car. But I know that’s a stretch.
The next best, (in my humble opinion) is to get an older diesel and run it from biodiesel from waste vegetable oil. This keeps a car out of the waste stream, and avoids spending the embedded energy (EMERGY, in HT Odum’s terms) contained in a new car.
I do not support using food for fuel. But once it’s been used as food, it’s fair game.
Of course, the oil, even though waste, is a product of industrial farming, and has high embedded energy content, and will itself become rare and expensive as the fossil fuels that produce it become more rare and expensive. But for now, it’s a more graceful way down the energy decline than almost all of the alternatives. (I can also get behind electric cars in regions that have hydropower.)
KEM, you’ve tried that argument before. It doesn’t hold up.
Termite farts may well “produce more C02 than all other emitters combined,” but they’ve been doing that for a long time, and their output has been in homeostasis with mechanisms for CO2 uptake.
The difference is that anthropogenic CO2 is a new thing, and natural systems have not co-evolved to handle it.
It’s like you’re titrating: take a few grams of turmeric and mix thoroughly with a hundred milliliters or so of iso-propanol (common rubbing alcohol) to get a lovely yellow coloured fluid. Now add 50 micrograms of NaOH (common lye) to the indicator fluid — it will suddenly turn beet red!
Yet you only increased the concentration of positive ions by 0.025%! This is an example of a “tipping point,” and nature is rife with them.
Repeat: anthropogenic (human-caused) CO2 has happened rapidly, without time for natural systems to co-evolve with the change. It’s like giving Gaia a mainline shot of heroin.
It doesn’t matter that other things produce more; what matters is that this has been a sudden increase.
Don’t buy a Prius,____ raise Aardvarks and boycott rice.
China is coming out with a neat plastic car that gets 330 miles per gallon. It’s called a Nomoto. Wal-Mart will be selling them in 2008, some assembly required and paint it yourself, China only has lead based paint.
JAN STEINMAN, you are absoluty correct. The termite fart story is just an attempt to interject a bit of humor.
We humans are the ones causing the problem and it really is not humerous at all. The first blogger here, PJD nailed it. The release of methane gas will do us in, world wide flooding could occur in our lifetimes if the methane doesn’t kill us all first. If that doesn’t wipe out humanity and all other life, loss of the phytoplankton most certainly will. The truth is, we very well may have already crossed the tipping point,___ if not we are going to before all of the major world leaders get together and attempt to figure a solution. Do you or any here, see that to be a possibility?
And if any took me seriously about breeding Aardvarks, please don’t order a breeding pair,____ unless you have a lot of termites.
I have a couple of comments to make, but not in style. I have a 1994 Merc Tracer, 34city/41hwy. I saw a new Saturn the otherday with a sticker that said 20city/28hwy. During the 1980’s oil embargo a Federal Law was passed that by the year 2000, all cars would(should) get 40-50mpg. I think the technology is there to do that. This law was later repealed thanks to
Big Oil, or whomever. 2. I dont think the environmental changes can be blamed entirely on human activity. I do think polution, disregard for the environment, and total disregard for other human beings can be blamed on ‘other human beings’. Looking back in History, major shifts in weather have occured, repeatedly over the ages, and I am a firm believer that we are progressing out of the ICE AGE, into a normalcy that includes warmer temps and increased radical weather systems. Predicting such weather extremes, (such as increased Hurricanes, in size and strength), has proven to not be an easy task since the data to support any theories does not exsist.
The “Little Ice Age” in Europe, and the U.S. during medival times suggested that we were still in a ‘Cold Climate Phase’. Now we are emerging on the warmer end of the scale with the outcome totally unmeasurable and unpredictable. And this is not even entering in to the possibilities of what the outcome will be after Bush NUKES Iran. Whomever said stock-up, be prepared, learn to exist without todays necessities, hit it right on the head of the nail. WE cannot undo, that which Bush, by the guidance of GOD, is going to unleash on mankind. This would be a good time for Prayer, cause nothing else will work!
Jan Steinman, waste vegetable oil could only work if a tiny fraction of the population will use it. There is simply not enough waste vegetable oil for all.
On the other hand - if the average American will replace his SUV or his F-350 with a Prius - you will solve half the problem.
I have also saw once a documentary about someone who was converting his Prius to an electric car that can be charged during the night through regular electrical socket. This could be a good solution if the electricity is from a reneuable source.
I’ll buy your argument about public transportation though.
KEM PATRICK
hi there kem. and just to throw a ’spaniard’ into the works. (john lennon) have you heard about this planet x supposed to be flying by earth in 2012 and responsible for all sorts of solar activity now??? and the definite end of earth………just asking as i don’t know if it’s a hoax or not……anything is possible these days n’est pas???
RE: ezeflyer September 5th, 2007 8:18 pm
NUCLEAR POWER AND URANIUM MINING by Dr. Helen Caldicott
(Published in the Adelaide Advertiser, June 29, 2007)
Great information ezeflyer, although I’m sure Billy_y4 would disagree completely. What do you think, Kem?
I must say the quality of posts on this story is exceptional. For once there are no nasty digs at one another, and it seems we have finally found an article we all pretty much agree on. Solutions have been proposed, and it appears we have basically three problem areas:
1) An ineffective & contrary government structure to the reality of the problem
2) An ignorant and/or complacent citizenry
3) A capitalistic system bent on making a lot of bucks in the short term, instead of realizing fewer dollars in the long term is more profitable if it assures there will BE a long term.
How about that? Kem & I went through all these posts and refrained from mentioning that DU could possibly kill us all before we even get to 2030? (Oops! Sorry about that; it just slipped out LOL) What the hell, we’re all born terminal anyway, so we might as well die with a smile on our faces, right?
PAULMAGILLSMITH
how dare you mention DU……again……that’s KEM’s job…….
and right, we should die with a smile on our face.
do you know about this dastardly planet x ???? wonder what will get us first. maybe that’s why they aren’t doing anything about climate change. cos they know it’s pointless if this massive brown dwarf is coming to get us in 5 years time………….aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh
Hey Kem,
When I wrote about the termites I said 1,800 pounds of them for every human on Earth. Where did you get the 40 billion figure from?
And Jan Steinman, you are absolutely correct. The termites, regardless of how much methane they produce, are a constant that has been around for who even knows how long. How about this for an idea, though; since eating meat, according to that same UN study I read also, causes so much addition to global warming, why don’t we kill two birds with one stone, and learn how to harvest those termites as a tasty food source? That would actually solve quite a number of resource & pollution problems wouldn’t it?
Thanks for catching my crude attempt at humor, coco. Say did you ever hear that old song called “The Eggplant That Ate Chicago”? Google the lyrics and take a look if you haven’t.
It’s not the end of the world. It is the end of Life as we know it. Let them rush for the remaining drops of petrolium. It will only prolong the agony. We are about to witness the power of evolution. How species with high fecundity rates will evolve to adapt and survive on the new face of the planet. The rest of us will enter the fossil record as a warning to those who evolve and attain our mental capabilities in the future.
Personally I don’t think any of the various forms of God will do squat. Other than offer comfort and solace to primitive superstitous minds. It certainly will not be like anything desribed in revalations, they sure got that wrong. No “RAPTURE”, will take place. Just a quick fry versus a slow bake.
I found them and they are very appropriate:
“The Eggplant That Ate Chicago”
by Norman Greenbaum (Dr. West’s Medicine Show & Junk Band)
You’d better watch out for the eggplant that ate Chicago,
For he may eat your city soon.
You’d better watch out for the eggplant that ate Chicago,
If he’s still hungry, the whole country’s doomed.
He came from outer space, lookin’ for somethin’ to eat.
He landed in Chicago. He thought Chicago was a treat.
(It was sweet, it was just like suger)
You’d better watch out for the eggplant that ate Chicago,
For he may eat your city soon (wacka-do, wacka-do, wacka-do)
You’d better watch out for the eggplant that ate Chicago,
If he’s still hungry, the whole country’s doomed.
kazoo solo
He came from outer space, lookin’ for somethin’ to eat.
He landed in Chicago. He thought Chicago was a treat.
(It was sweet, it was just like suger)
You’d better watch out for the eggplant that ate Chicago,
For he may eat your city soon (wacka-do, wacka-do, wacka-do)
You’d better watch out for the eggplant that ate Chicago,
If he’s still hungry, the whole country’s doomed (”it’s in trouble!”)
If he’s still hungry, the whole country’s doomed
Ok, it’s almost 5:30 AM here (Richmond VA), and I’ve been at this keyboard scheduling about 50 acts on 5 stages for an upcoming music festival since about noon yesterday, and tomorrow I have to schedule our stage for 11 days of music (5 hours per day) for the VA State Fair, so before I get too punch-drunk & silly I think it’s time to retire. Goodnight all, and I’ll catch any of your further comments tomorrow/today.
In his book, Solar Florida, John Blackburn (emeritus economics prof)points out that all of Florida’s energy needs could be met (including transportation) if only 2% of Florida’s landmass were dedicated to PV collectors operating at 10% efficiency.
If instead of subsidizing sugar, cattle, cotton and corn production (which use water, fertilizer, pesticides and create nutrient-rich runoff) we subsidized only solar and wind farms, the taxpayer, the environment, the farmer and the country would all be better off. . .at NO expense to standard of living. (Emphasis added for MtnGoat’s benefit.)
Anita Linker,
George Bush will likely reinforce his stance Sunday evening (9:00) watching Sean Hannity’s global warming-debunking documentary on FOX.
From the Hannity & Colmes Tuesday (Sep 4) segment:
“Joining us now is Bjorn Lomborg. He is the author of the brand new book, “Cool It: The Skeptical Environmentalist’s Guide to Global Warming.” And by the way, it’s also the man that Al Gore refused to debate.”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295778,00.html
It seems Engineers, Scientists, and Physicists have all forgotton one thing that even I, who is none of the above, figured out way back in 2002, and that is that the Global Warming problem would grow Exponentially! Every year since then the projections of Ice Melt have proven me right!
Ms. Linker,
I watched that episode of Hannity, and was amazed at how clueless he was. Mr. Lomborg basically said that Global Warming does exist, but was trying to say that instead of using ‘maximum’ projections on how to alleviate GW, we should look not for ‘minimum’ solutions, but try and find ‘middle ground’ in forming our policies.
Ice core samples have always indicated the climate changes quickly. The projections of a slow change in the climate over hundreds of years were always contradicted by evidence from the past that showed climate changes happening much more quickly.
These sorts of ‘positive feedback’ are the reason why. Some warming has the effect of causing changes which cause faster warming. This melting of the ice pack is a very visible sign of one of these occurring. The ice has always reflected sunlight (and heat) that will now instead be absorbed into the water. Thus the same sunlight now warms the planet more than when the ice was there.
There are more of these positive feedback mechanism. Another that comes to mind is the release of methane trapped in the arctic permafrost. In that case, the warming so far that causes the permafrost to melt causes the release of methane which is a greenhouse gas and which will then cause faster warming once its in the atmosphere. If the ice cap is melting at an unprecedented rate, what’s happening to the permafrost on the land next to the ice cap?
If you want to see this in mathematics, study the math of chaotic systems. Find one of the pictures of a chaotic system with two (or more) kinda-stable orbits. The system doesn’t shift gently from one orbit to another. Instead, the system just jumps from one orbit to another. The earth’s climate is a chaotic system that is going to jump from the stable orbit we’ve been in since the last ice age into another, much warmer, orbit.
BTW, who would ever think of “Engineers, Scientists, and Physicists” as some sort of unified block that ever agree on anything completely to the point where they’d ‘all’ forget something?
I find it hilarious all the people who believe that eliminating humans will make the world a better place. The idea is that it would make life more pleasant for all the familiar mammalian and avian species, and possibly reptilian and fish species as well. But if one holds that the world is better off without humans, then one must hold that humans have little or no value, and then it seems that other creatures that humans value could not have value simply because humans value them, because humans have little or no value. So where does their value come from?
And even if one theorized about some independent determiner of value (e.g. a deity), then since those lovable species that are obviously in mind when one thinks about that wonderful humanless world are somewhat similar to humans (compared to bacteria, for example), it seems that those species should not have that much value either if humans have little or no value. And how do we know that independent determiner of value even values life over non-life? How do we know it is a pro-life bigot, or a pro-carbon-based life bigot?
Quit cutting down the trees and we wouldn’t have this problem.
But global warming is suppose to be a hoax. Didn’t Time or Newsweek say?
Hi Paul, I got that 40 billion figure from the book ‘Possum Living’. The aged Hippie author weighed ten termites and came up with the 16,000 pounds equaled 40 billion termites. She probably had the same professor you did. The book also gives some excellent recipes for cooking rodents, which wll be useful when Bush shoves us into a depression.
Hi Coco. Planet X is actually a gold plated space ship, about one third the size of our moon. It is presently orbiting Saturn, hidden from our telescope’s view by Saturn’s rings. It’s one of the mother ships controlled by humanity from the Paradesian Galaxy and a main base of operation for them here in the Milky Way Galaxy. They send people here to keep an eye on our progress and or stupidity, and when we happen to observe their commuter ships, we refer to them as flying saucers. They are now selectively monitering us to determine which of us will be fit to re-join them when the end is near. Any ex-hippies, politicians, lawyers, literary agents or lobyists and of course insane criminals are in danger of being left here when Earth is burned to a crisp. I think you’ll be Okay Coco, don’t screw it up and run for public office unless you have helped Cindy Sheehan. She’ll be saved along with John Lennon and Elvis, who are already there workng in the music department. BTW Paul, that eggplant song doesn’t help your standing. You’d better straighten up and fly right boy.
Rapid human-caused global warming produces outcomes to which most species can’t adapt.
Or course, this will lead to mass extinctions of flora and fauna.
Does anyone contributing to this discussion have a model or the mechanisms of extinction?
I have tried to construct a simple model of extinction; I believe one can apply it to societies, machines, individuals (death), or cultures.
If anyone reads this, maybe they can give me feedback.
First, each biological, social, mechanical and cultural organization has a boundary and internal configuration that makes it separate from other entities.
Second, each organizational entity’s boundary has to undergo the constant stress and friction of adapting to its environment.
Third, to protect the integrity of the entity’s boundary, much of its internal mechanism, energy and time is spent on repairing and maintaining these boundaries.
Fourth, when the entity’s repair and maintenance mechanisms can’t keep up with the wear-and-tear of adaptive stress, it goes extinct, dies, or kaput.
For example, I am listening to a young fado singer’s newest album, Ulisses. Her agenda is to reinvigorate and renew the fado tradition by increasingly adding “outside” cultural influences.
However, are her efforts acting as repair and maintenance mechanisms which will preserve the boundaries of the fado tradition?
Or are her efforts actually eroding these boundaries so that her efforts are not preserving the cultural boundaries of fado? Instead, is she contributing to its extinction?
This extinction can be categorised as two types. 1. Is she contributing to her extinction as a singer within the fado tradition? 2. Is she contributing to the extinction of the fado tradition as a whole?
Of course, we live in era where crossing cultural boundaries is culturally defined as beneficial. But is this “crossing” really beneficial to the adaptive strategies of these various culural traditions?
Or is the increasing cross boundary introduction of other cultural traits simply another method of breaking down the authentic boundaries of many of these traditions …thus leading to their extinction?
Of course, these extinctions in social organizations (tribal, nomadic, horticultural, city-states, kingdoms, empires, etc.), flora and fauna, and cultural systems, all lead to increasing homogenization.
What causes this homogenization? Can the repair and maintenance mechanisms of the products of homogenization keep these products safe from extinction?
Oh BTW, tax collectors, the far right evangelicals and TV preachers are all lumped into the insane criminal catagory.
“The earth’s climate is a chaotic system that is going to jump from the stable orbit we’ve been in since the last ice age into another, much warmer, orbit.”
Years ago, I used to play with the Lorenz Attractor in “fractint” (a 20- year old DOS app, but still the best fractal generator) by fiddling with values for three equation parameters, you can get the attactor to not only change to a radically different stable condition, but to go completely “blow up” or collpse to a singularity.
Of corse, real terrestrial planetary climate syetems will stabilize at some level - but if that level wipes out key biospheric systems (per Lovelock) it will stabilize as a dead or virtually dead planet - forever. just like Venus on one side of us, or Mars on the other. Both probably very similar to earth about 3.5 BY ago, but they got preturbed just a little too far, or key early life forms died or failed to develop.
So, I believe, as many scientists probably do among themselves, that a doomsday “Venusification” scenario is a very real possibility. Perhaps it is remote possibility - but less remote than the conditions that engineers are required by law to design things for, from dams or aircraft, every day - and thats just to preserve the lives of a few hundred people.
So, what should we ALL be doing, RIGHT NOW, to avoid the possible anihillation of life on earth???
Hint…it must go WAY beyond just buying a fucking Prius!
balakirev,
When I think about such issues I focus more on feedback loops than on boundaries, as it seems to me that boundaries are more artificial and arbitrary, though they clearly offer invaluable simplicity and are probably necessary to keep any model manageable. However, one could model any life form as a set of feedback loops, self-regenerating and growing through such feedback loops, including increasing their number, to the extent the life form grows and lives, and disintegrating feedback loops to the extent it recedes and dies.
We normally prefer the simplicity of thinking as humans or other animals as contained within their skins (a boundary), but of course we also accept abstractions that position them as part of living societies of individuals, creating feedback loops that pass through the brains of others we communicate with and form understandings with (As a side issue I would note that it is simpler to believe in individual identity over time, and certainly that fits into the “legal rights of individuals” model for organizing civilized socity, but a moment’s thought returns the verdict that identity over time is pure fiction, rendering the whole set of “Free Will” arguments nonsensical).
Anyway, collections of individuals, e.g. human and other societies, could also be modeled as sets of feedback loops. And breaks in those feedback loops would likely entail reductions in populations, some breaks severe enough to lead to extinction, though systems with some built-in flexibility could have a better chance of avoiding that catastrophic result.
As we develop limited models for a world of unbounded complexity we all have to balance the errors of oversimplification versus the costs of managing oppressive complexity with less error, and the above is about where I feel comfortable, though most others might not find it so pleasant.
And that’s my two cents (maybe worth less).
“Oh BTW, tax collectors, the far right evangelicals and TV preachers are all lumped into the insane criminal catagory.”
Tax collectors???
Did you, or have you, used a street, a sewer and tratment plant, a bridge, a school, a State University, a park, or public transportation today? Does your town have police and firemen? All this was made possible thanks to those tax collectors. Are the buildings, vehicles, aircraft, air, water, food, and workplaces, cleaner, safer or less adulterated than 50 years ago? Don’t thank the manufacturers or builders of these things -they would (and did) get away with murder to increae their profits if they could. It was extensive safety research, standards, and enforcement, paid for by taxes, that did this.
Are your streets full of your fellow countrymen begging for food, dying, and homeless, like all too much of the world? Thank the tax collector for that too.
If we stabilize the threat of global warming will it by people all doing their own thing as they please, or will it have to do with specific research and development programs and policies and public support of alternate energy and infrastructure development? Your contributions to the tax collector will make those possible.
They went far beyond collecting taxes for infastructure buddy. For just two tiny examples, chech the taxes on your telephone or electric bill. You might also lighten up and understand that some people have a broader sense of humor than some of the more rigid intellects types do.
PJD, which model of the Prius fucks? Are they male, female or bi-sexual?
arjun @ 5:45 pm said:
We can get rid of fossil fuels and nuclear power in 30 to 50 years. I have just finished a study of this for the United States. See the summary at
http://www.ieer.org/carbonfree/summary.pdf
Judging from the comments here, no one bothered to take him up on his offer. Everybody should.
damon13. Henning Steinfeld, Chief of the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) of the United Nation’s Livestock Information and Policy Branch is the senior author of the report I mentioned earlier. He says, “Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today’s most serious environmental problems. Urgent action is required to remedy the situation.”
Steinfeld’s report states that livestock generate more greenhouse gas emissions as measured in CO2 equivalent than driving cars.
Not everyone can afford a hybrid and not everyone is able to take public transportation or put solar panels on their roof, but everyone has control over what they put in their mouths.
If you are concerned about the environment, stop eating meat. For the planet, for the animals and for your health, go vegan!
Well, the cows are here to stay, so until you can shut down all of the fast food outlets and ban the sale of milk and cheese, guess we’ll have to suffer the global warming problems. For every hybred electric car I see on the road, I can count 700 or more SUVs and pickups. Does anyone here really believe humanity will stop our stupidity before it’s far too late? ___ You do? ___ Well, I sincerely do hope and pray even, that you can be the next king or queen of the planet. I think we should all learn the Eggplant song.
arjun - it’s beautiful! And WmC is right - everyone should read it. I’ve added it to my favorites list so I can look up the numbers and such to prove things to various disbelieving folks of my acquaintance. Gives me hope - thanks.
KEM PATRICK - Don’t be such a fatalist. We don’t have to shut down the fast food outlets or ban the sale of milk. If everyone would just realize the power of the consumer and stop buying meat and dairy, the producers of those environmentally horrific products will switch to environmentally friendly products that consumers will buy.
You ask the question, “Does anyone here really believe humanity will stop our stupidity before it’s far too late?” I am asking you, KEM PATRICK, will you stop (eating meat and dairy) before it’s too late?
Seventh Day Adventists don’t eat meat or dairy products Sharon. Are you going to stop assuming? Did you notice you used the word great big word IF? “If everyone”! If, If, If, the dog hadn’t stopped to poop, he would have caught the rabbit. Do you really believe everyone is going to stop buying meat and dairy products? ___ You do! ___ If I’m a fatalist what are you? Certaninly not a realist. But I bet you are a nice person.
kivals
Thanks for the response.
I could include feedback loops relative to a human, machine, cultural trait, society, or other forms and each form’s adaptive relation to its environment.
However, all of the above concepts are concepts (or ideal types) that help organize information in order to better understand and negotiate with our own environment: human produced or not.
One may simplify the concept of feedback loops by using terms such as positive and negative feedback. In turn, those forms of feedback can then be connected to larger, contextual reward/punishment systems.
Thus, when the environmental context of a form changes, the reward/punishment system changes. As a result, the form may not adapt quickly enough to the demands of a new reward/punishment regime and thus eventually becomes extinct.
In other words, because the form’s inner repair and maintenance mechanisms may don’t respond quick enough to the new regime, the resulting increase in the wear and tear of adaptive stress overcomes these internal mechanisms. The form then…disappears.
However, the concept of form implies boundaries. Don’t you think?
KEM PATRICK, you’ve been in a good mood lately. I like this fun side of you.
sharonvegan, the factoid I posted SUPPORTED you. But the same study put “rice” as a higher air pollutant. Maybe you’re not familiar with my posts, but they are usually sarcastic; in which, I can hopefully illuminate, subtler problems. And as this thread is already too old. I’ll wait till the next one.
Sometimes your sarcasm is directed towards others and is hurtful. I’m always in a good mood until someone starts a row. Glad to see you’re more decent today. Perhaps we can get along. Hope so.
EVERYONE
i agree with sharonvegan about not eating meat. i’m not a scientist so don’t know if it’s true about the gases from cattle (but suspect it’s probably right judging by the amount of animals slaughtered in france alone in one year) but i do know one thing. and that is: we do not need to eat all this meat, we not need to drink milk after we are weaned, we do not need to subject sentient beings to the horrors of factory farming. if you don’t believe and have the courage/stomach go to PETA website and look at their video: MEET YOUR MEAT.
COCO, good thing you didn’t mis-spell meet.
Don’t the French eat horsies? Do horses give off Co2? It seems as if everyone ate steak and burgers for every meal, we’d run out of cows and the problem would be solved. I tried some soybean burgers once and decided to try stuffed broiled frogs instead. The soybean hot dogs taste worse than canned Alpo. I do like tomatoe and peanut butter sandwiches and peanut butter and mayonaisse on deep fried hot dogs are wonderful.
balakirev,
I basically agree with you. I understand that a boundary is a useful concept and is tied up with the concept of form.
And I am aware that feedback loops are not confined to biological organisms. Certainly the study of cybernetics focuses on the idea of feedback loops (long ago I was a graduate student in AI and that’s when I started thinking of life processes in terms of feedback loops).
I just feel more comfortable modeling living organisms in terms of feedback loops involving biological processes, as opposed to static states with easily definable and constant, for some time period, forms and boundaries (not that that is the only alternative). The forms contained within the boundaries are constantly evolving, as the sets of processes involved in maintaining and extending the forms change over time as they adjust to changing conditions. It is so easy, and of so little value, to model animals by physical appearance with forms with physical boundaries, when what determines the behavior are the unseen (but not necessarily difficult to imagine and model) brain connections that are constantly evolving and are dependent on feedback loops involving other elements of the environment as well as internal elements. I guess one could argue that the physical form includes all the brain connections, even though these are to a large extent dynamic.
Of course there are innumerable ways to model our environment, though certainly they are not equal in usefulness, manageability, and capacity to successfully predict outcomes (better understanding and negotiating with our environment, in your terms). I enjoy mentally testing different models and what I described was my preference. I guess that is my idea of conceptual art.
KIVALS, your Sept 6th 12:49pm two cents comment was a gem, worth far more than most comments here, ____ especially mine.
Kem Patrick,
Thanks for the kind words. And thanks for all your informative contributions.
You are most welcome, we all enjoy your informative posts.
COCO
EVERYONE
i agree with sharonvegan about not eating meat. i’m not a scientist so don’t know if it’s true about the gases from cattle (but suspect it’s probably right judging by the amount of animals slaughtered in france alone in one year) but i do know one thing. and that is: we do not need to eat all this meat, we not need to drink milk after we are weaned, we do not need to subject sentient beings to the horrors of factory farming. if you don’t believe and have the courage/stomach go to PETA website and look at their video: MEET YOUR MEAT.
PETA? great intentions with a bit of radical ignorance… isn’t this the same group that asked the town of Fishkill, NY to change it’s name because they felt it was offensive?
KEM PATRICK
Hi Coco. Planet X is actually a gold plated space ship, about one third the size of our moon. It is presently orbiting Saturn, hidden from our telescope’s view by Saturn’s rings. It’s one of the mother ships controlled by humanity from the Paradesian Galaxy and a main base of operation for them here in the Milky Way Galaxy. They send people here to keep an eye on our progress and or stupidity, and when we happen to observe their commuter….
Why worry? Remember that the Vogons are due here soon to demolish our planet to make way for an interstellar bypass….
Here are some well known, but thinly published FACTS:
Our atmosphere has weight (mass).
Half the mass is at and below 18,000ft, the rest basically fades to 0 around 70,000ft. It is, of course, densest at sea level and thins out with altitude. No surprise there…
95% of weather (wx) happens at or below 30,000ft, even huge systems like hurricanes which are hundreds of miles wide. Tornadoes and thunder storms rise as high as 50,000ft.
Still OK?
Temperature decreases at a steady rate until reaching -56F or so in the stratosphere (35,000ft+/-).
Most of us have a pretty good handle on horizontal distance—a mile is 5280ft, it’s about a mile to the grocery store, about 3 miles to Walmart, 100 miles to Grandma’s. And so on.
Most of us have been in an airliner and seen the ground from the air. Recall now, or notice next time you’re up, seeing an airport. Perhaps google one. Notice the runways, they are easy to see.
The runways at IAD or LAX or MKC, etc., are over 10,000ft long.
!!! 10,000ft. !!!
Factor that into your visual cortex…
Half of the atmosphere that protects us from cold, dead space is only TWO runway lengths above the surface.
The wx happens only THREE lengths up.
On a clear day you can see 10 miles from a hill or tall building. That’s about 60,000ft.
Look straight up, chums, we’re 60,000ft from space, and six runway lengths from dead cold.
Don’t call environmentalists “alarmists”, call us caring earthlings with nerves of steel trying to bring an urgent situation to the attention of mankind.
Bury that Hummer and join the fun.
Cheers,
snydly
1. Here are some well known, but thinly published FACTS:
Our atmosphere has weight (mass).
Half the mass is at and below 18,000ft, the rest basically fades to 0 around 70,000ft. It is, of course, densest at sea level and thins out with altitude. No surprise there…
95% of weather (wx) happens at or below 30,000ft, even huge systems like hurricanes which are hundreds of miles wide. Tornadoes and thunder storms rise as high as 50,000ft.
Still OK?
Temperature decreases at a steady rate until reaching -56F or so in the stratosphere (35,000ft+/-).
Most of us have a pretty good handle on horizontal distance—a mile is 5280ft, it’s about a mile to the grocery store, about 3 miles to Walmart, 100 miles to Grandma’s. And so on.
Most of us have been in an airliner and seen the ground from the air. Recall now, or notice next time you’re up, seeing an airport. Perhaps google/earth one. Notice the runways, they are easy to see.
The runways at IAD or LAX or MKC, etc., are over 10,000ft long.
!!! 10,000ft. !!!
Factor that into your visual cortex…
Half of the atmosphere that protects us from cold, dead space is only TWO runway lengths above the surface.
The wx happens only THREE lengths up.
On a clear day you can see 10 miles from a hill or tall building. That’s about 60,000ft.
Look straight up, chums, we’re 60,000ft from space, and six runway lengths from dead cold.
Don’t call environmentalists “alarmists”, call us caring earthlings with nerves of steel trying to bring an urgent situation to the attention of mankind.
Bury that Hummer and join the fun.
Cheers,
snydly
IMFEFUP, worry? Not at all, you misunderstood, they are there to save us from ourselves. They are us and we are them, that’s why Elvis is there.
SNYDLY, great post there, thanks.
snydly
Don’t call environmentalists “alarmists”, call us caring earthlings with nerves of steel trying to bring an urgent situation to the attention of mankind.
Better that you use “nerves of granite” instead of steel.
You know how it goes… steel, manmade, lots of co2 as a by product to make it….
must be in a fun mood today…
What people do not seem to realize is that this is an Extreme Situation, not a mild one, not a mildly irritating one, but an EXTREME LIFE THREATENING ONE. For ALL LIFE on this planet. ALL LIFE.
Extreme situations demand extreme measures if they are to be resolved effectively.
You don’t put a band aid (an elastoplast) on a gaping arterial thigh wound that is fountaining blood at a great rate. The band aid is too small. It requires a tourniquet and lots of pressure. Then it requires a transfusion and sutures. Honestly, when we know this, why can’t we make the leap to larger situations? Is it just that we need the right metaphor?
If we as a human race are to get real about global warming and climate change then the sensible rational and responsible response is this: Establish a world wide moratorium on fossil fuel consumption for the next 50 years so we can (1) slow down climate change (2) develop technology and alternatives that don’t exacerbate the problem. I mean cut it right back. Right back. As far as we can cut it back, do it. Turn off the oil and show some leadership and determination, some human decency and some responsibility for more than the bottom line. Show some responsibility for life! For LIFE!
1. Park the cars. All of them. Public transport and disabled transport only. Home office working with remote log-in. Tax breaks for all companies who do this. Think about it: Nothing would force the auto industry to come up with alternatives more than this single act of simply saying: “No, I’m not driving my car any more. Turn off the oil.” And every car owner could do this.
Look a couple of lightbulbs and giving up “two napkins” (as Oprah promoted) is not going to cut it. It’s good, but it’s not effective. It’s not REAL. It is of insufficient magnitude to handle the magnitude of the problem.
2. Dock the tourist ships: Convert tourism to sailing ships. Much more relaxing. Dock the oil ships. Turn off the oil wells.
3. Park the planes: Air travel to ballooning. Emergency flights only for medical purposes to save life.
4. Local community organic garden growth. Cut down the trucking of produce. Return to local growth.
5. Dismantle the current fossil fuel distribution system that created this mess and continues it every day. Bring back the EV1 and get it into every country in the world under license. But penalize those idiots for dismantling it and give it back to the guys who developed it (See: Who Killed the Electric Car?”. I mean: close the refineries. Dismantle the pipelines. Shut down all the garages that dispense fuel from petrol bowsers to gas tanks and convert them to alternatives.
6. Stop every war. Right now. Every damned one of them. And get the entire planet and all nations to the UN to look at how to do exactly what I’m saying here. And figure out how to keep economies going while we impose the above restrictions and other similar extreme measures upon ourselves in order to slow the process of climate change down while we develop effective and manageable sustainable solutions. There is no issue more important than what is happening to the earth. Keep the wars going and everybody will be dead, and the planet too. It will be LIFELESS. That’s the approach we’ve got to take. Stop dicking about and acting in a la-de-da devil-may-care fashion. Get REAL about catastrophic climate change. This could be such an opportunity for the world to actually pull together, but we’ve got to imagine it first and the diplomats have got to do their job. There is NOTHING ELSE on this planet more important. NOTHING. That’s the extreme nature of the situation.
7. Other extreme measures that I haven’t quite thought of yet, but which are similarly effective and a precise intelligent response to what is happening.
Yeah, I can just imagine people reading this and the stunned feeling of horror at the sacrifice this will mean making. But, you know what…that’s exactly the attitude that’s killing this planet and turning it into a lifeless dead lump to give to your grandchildren. Extreme Climate Change is happening, right NOW. It demands Extreme Sacrifices of all human beings on this planet. And that doesn’t mean reduce the human footprint by drastic destructive and immoral methods that the Duperpower can and does employ with wild and reckless abandon. I certainly would not trust the Duperpower or anything it says it will do.
Nobody will do the above of course. Humans are far too selfish and far too stupid to correctly estimate the response to such a situation. e.g. the response so far is equivalent to:
While the house is burning the people who could stop it burning with occupants inside are standing on the sidewalk by the fire hydrants, busy arguing about whether to use the skinny hose, or the fat one, and which hydrant to plug into. That’s the level of discourse and decisive action that is occurring today on this most urgent subject, if there is any discourse at all that is actually worth a damn. And it’s about time we realized that that is what is happening.
So, as the response to this crisis is not of the correct estimation or magnitude to resolve the problem (see above): kiss each other’s arses goodbye while soaking up even more stupid ‘Reality’ tv, until reality really does bite, hard. Cos what we’re seeing as described in this article is just the beginning. All the fresh water that’s now going into the oceans of the world as the ice caps disappear is going to have a massive knock on effect on all life. The entire ecology of the planet is going to change drastically and it’s going to wipe out just about every species including Man. That’s an extreme situation and it demands an extreme intelligent response.
To get the response to disaster correct you’ve got to imagine the worst possible outcome and then act as if it is going to happen.
No other response is suitable or effective. It’s like trying to educate people to slow down on the roads. They don’t until you give them the horrific reality of the consequences in full graphic detail. You’ve got to show them the blood and guts. There are studies on this. Nothing I’m saying here is not backed up by some study somewhere in some other (often unrelated) field. But with the dumbing down of culture, there are few can join so many apparently disparate dots, if indeed they can even see the dot that’s a gigantic supercell on the horizon about to lower the temperature to 40-below in the next ten minutes, and their body temperature along with it.
You want to end the decay this planet and human civilization is going through…this is how you do it. And forget Bush and the Badministration of the USA as far as them doing anything remotely effective in this sphere.
But who has the courage? Who will set the example? Who will get REAL about climate change?
50-Year Moratorium on fossil fuels and their consumption right now. Turn off the oil. Let’s learn to live without it now. Cos living with it, is what’s killing us. And living without it, that’s our future. That’s the simplicity of this problem.
The Common Dream we need to focus on is: Save the planet now. Save Life Now. Turn off the oil. There is no more important thing to do.