The Washington Post’s Fred Hiatt has spent the last several years demanding that Democrats show their Seriousness by capitulating to most Bush “terrorism” policies. He is the type of pundit about which Democratic consultants fret so deeply when they advise their clients not to defy Bush’s will. But even Hiatt sees the Democrats’ weekend capitulation on FISA for exactly what it is, and expresses it clearly in a remarkably good Editorial this morning — entitled “Warrantless Surrender”:
THE DEMOCRATIC-led Congress, more concerned with protecting its political backside than with safeguarding the privacy of American citizens, left town early yesterday after caving in to administration demands that it allow warrantless surveillance of the phone calls and e-mails of American citizens, with scant judicial supervision and no reporting to Congress about how many communications are being intercepted. To call this legislation ill-considered is to give it too much credit: It was scarcely considered at all. Instead, it was strong-armed through both chambers by an administration that seized the opportunity to write its warrantless wiretapping program into law — or, more precisely, to write it out from under any real legal restrictions.
Administration officials, backed up by their Republican enablers in Congress, argued that they were being dangerously hamstrung in their ability to collect foreign-to-foreign communications by suspected terrorists that happen to transit through the United States. The problem is that while no serious person objects to intercepting foreign-to-foreign communications, what the administration sought — and what it managed to obtain — allows much more than foreign-to-foreign contacts. The government will now be free to intercept any communications believed to be from outside the United States (including from Americans overseas) that involve “foreign intelligence” — not just terrorism. It will be able to monitor phone calls and e-mails of U.S. citizens or residents without warrants — unless the subject is the “primary target” of the surveillance.
Instead of having the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court ensure that surveillance is being done properly, with monitoring of Americans minimized, that job would be up to the attorney general and the director of national intelligence. The court’s role is reduced to that of rubber stamp. . . .
Democrats could have stuck to their guns and insisted on their version. Instead, nervous about being blamed for any terrorist attack and eager to get out of town, they accepted the unacceptable. Most Democrats opposed the measure, but enough (16 in the Senate, 41 in the House) went with Republicans to allow it to pass, and the leadership enabled that result.
In the NYT, James Risen, the reporter who first revealed the existence of the NSA program, described the legislation as one which “broadly expanded the government’s authority to eavesdrop on the international telephone calls and e-mail messages of American citizens without warrants.” As Hiatt also pointed out, Risen explained that “its impact went far beyond the small fixes that administration officials had said were needed to gather information about foreign terrorists,” and instead, “the new law for the first time provided a legal framework for much of the surveillance without warrants that was being conducted in secret by the National Security Agency and outside.” Risen quoted the excellent Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies in Washington, saying: “This more or less legalizes the N.S.A. program.” Prior to the November, 2006 elections, the Bush administration tried desperately to force the Congress to enact new FISA legislation to legalize warrantless eavesdropping. The Democrats resisted just enough to prevent its enactment. Karl Rove and Republicans generally then ran around the country exploiting that obstructionism in order to accuse Democrats of being “soft on terror” and “wanting to prevent the President from listening in when Osama calls,” the Republicans were crushed in that election, and Democrats obtained an historic victory. In the not-blue state of Montana, Jon Tester defeated an incumbant GOP Senator by running on a platform of repealing the Patriot Act in its entirety. Wouldn’t the most basic rationality compel Democrats to draw the conclusion that this rank Terrorism fear-mongering does not actually work?
Yet here they are, after refusing to legalize warrantless eavesdropping prior to their midterm victory, allowing this legislation to pass now that they are in the majority. It is as politically self-destructive as it is unconscionable on the merits.
While the premise of this behavior is that Democrats must avoid appearing “soft” and “weak,” one article after the next describes their behavior as “surrendering,” “capitulating,” “bowing to pressure,” “caving in” and “suffering defeat” — all at the hands of a weakened, isolated and pervasively despised lame duck President whose political party is in shambles. The worst thing one can be in American politics and American culture generally is a loser, and Democrats perpetually turn themselves into losers and convince themselves when doing so that they are appearing “strong” and “tough.”
What makes this all the more appalling is that it was so easily avoidable. All Democrats had to do was offer legislation to fix the only real gap in FISA and then demand that the President sign it or risk a Terrorist attack. They could have gone on the offensive ahead of time by crafting the legislation and then made it their own cause to demand that the President sign it immediately in order to fix this problem and protect us from the Terrorists.
But they did none of that. They waited around, as always, with no aim and no strategy and no principle and no belief and allowed the President to dictate their behavior and control the debate. It is exactly what they have done on every virtually major issue over the last six years — from Iraq to the Military Commissions Act to the Alito nomination to the whole slew of still-secret surveillance programs that they meekly allow to remain undisclosed, even to them.
In the process, they gutted the few existing restrictions on the government’s power to spy on us. They revitalized the GOP base which is revelling in their Victory and dispirited and infuriated their own base. They revealed themselves, yet again, as weak and principle-free as they are politically inept. And even Fred Hiatt sees all of that.
Glenn Greenwald was previously a constitutional law and civil rights litigator in New York. He is the author of the New York Times Bestselling book “How Would a Patriot Act?,” a critique of the Bush administration’s use of executive power, released in May 2006. His second book, “A Tragic Legacy“, examines the Bush legacy.
© Salon.com
No comment is really needed. When the weak act weak, what can one say? — they are weak! Whoo, a dog bit a man!
Not so sure they were protecting their political backside in terms of the voting public. Is it really even a consideration anymore? It is hard to believe in light of the drama surrounding Gonzales, that they don’t have other priorities–like powerful connections that make or break careers and calculation that goes into assuring a planned outcome. By allowing the vote to reach the floor and strategically allowing certain members to vote with the Republicans, a preordained strategy emerges ,assuring certain members to cast opposing votes with the knowledge that it will pass safely. Arms can be twisted, committee appts and funds denied to line up the votes if they really wanted to make a stand. It is not happening at a time when Bush-Cheney are in the gutter. Gonzales is a national embarrassment and here the Dems are further legitimatizing his crimes. Since the congress is held even lower esteem than Bush, but continue to dig that hole goes to show that they don’t care what the voting public thinks because they serve a differenct constituency.
A constituency that has come to monopolize the entire power structure, and considering that Powell stated the “US was running out of enemies”, the need to invent one was essential for an economy based on war profiteering. Thus the endless “war on terrorism”, that all politicians spout endless mythology about, use as a vehicle to strut their general acts, and cave on every constitutional right to rally behind.
With very few exceptions “strong and tough” are terms diametrically opposed to “democrat.”
I’m a Democrat, because really, there’s no where else to go, but Jesus I despise them!
//bangs head
This is just further proof that Obama and Hillary are not leaders. If they were they would be rallying, demanding, pushing their party to take the offensive. I suppose they are too concerned about the nomination, which also reflects on their lack of leadership.
These two are unelectable in the final analysis- partly because of the ineffectual leadership on occasions like this, and because a SCARED America will not vote for woman or half a caucasian- it is too much to ask in this lying atmosphere of fear and hate.
I still believe there will be no election. And just like the very first transition of the Federalist in the executive to the anti-federalist, where there was concern that the Federalist would not give up power and instead mobilize the militia to maintain power on the grounds that it was in the national interest, there is fear of this happening over 200 years later. Only this time, it will happen. Bush and Cheney, Rove, and the rest, with support from these spineless democrats will not give up power. One catastrohe, planned by this rogue back-room government will carry the day for Bush.
And the majority of American people? They have shown neither the interest nor the intelligence to know any better. Only checks and balances saves democracy. The mandate of the people is controlled via selected information doles out throught he so called liberal media. The two party system, unfettered by the constitution rules America for their own interests.
Frosty bunny:
Of course there is somewhere else to go. Exploiting the feeling that there is nowhere else to go is what allows the Dems to “triangulate” endlessly. You will be taken for granted only as long as you allow it.
seriousprofessor:
I get what you’re saying, but realistically, what are the alternatives? If I left the Dems (really, they left me years ago) I would be shooting myself in the foot in the primaries. If I registered Independent I would have even less voice than I have now. The primaries are the only place where you have a snowball’s chance of making any difference.
Not that it makes any difference.
//bitter chuckle
I am the Typhoid Mary of politics. If I like a politician, they have no hope of winning.
Frostybunny:
What you describe is the opportunity to make a difference among choices that are diametrically opposed to what you believe. This makes a farce out of your right to the democratic franchise.
A simulacrum of a voice is not the same as a voice. And I agree with you that it stinks.
The only realistic alternative is to leave the abusive relationship. There are plenty of disadvantages, but at least you will retain/regain your self-respect.
This was my last letter to my alleged representatives, for DownsizeDC.
—————————
Please oppose the so-called “FISA Modernization Act” being pushed by the Bush administration.
My personal comment to you:
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, and again and again, until it begins to appear that you people are listening to those whom you are supposed to represent.
We the People of the United States are sick and tired of “Secret” legislation and secret deals. Usually they turn out to be secret because they strip still more from our already shredded Constitution and Bill of Rights, or make huge payoffs to yet another bunch of crooks linked to the Washington Cesspool.
The original FISA Act may be weak, but it did provide a veneer of protection from government intrusion into our lives. It would appear that this “Secret” FISA Modernization Act may well strip what little protection we have from the Bush Gang, and his successors if any, but how can we tell? IT’S A SECRET!
The government is using fear tactics, unfounded claims, phony setups, outright lies, and probably have some “False Flag” Black Ops waiting in the wings to once again terrorize the people into going along with lawlessness and fascism promoted by this government.
It is way past time for this to stop. One start would be to vote down the “Secret” FiSA Modernization Act.
The United States has one slim chance to survive. That is by returning to a government ruled by its founding documents, the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Under those documents, the government is an open government, where We the People can see and respond to what is going on. We will not survive as a democracy by having a government that hides everything it does from public view by secrecy, lies and cover-ups.
We the People demand that the cover be taken off the Cesspool that is Washington DC. We want to hold our noses and look deep into it, to see what the bottom feeders are dong down there. We want to find a good septic pumper who will work hard and empty that effluent so the bottom feeders will starve.
Only then will we have a chance to survive. We have watched the Democrats, whom we elected to do that job, and what do we see? Most of them have dived in and headed for the bottom, to join their cohorts. They’re slurping so loud they don’t even hear us. A small handful are standing at the edge, beating their chests and bailing with a teaspoon.
We the People are telling you, either man the pumps and empty the Cesspool, or we’ll look for some real repairmen to do the job and you can be pumped out with the rest of the stinking mess.
Always remember, We the People are mad as Hell and we aren’t going to take it anymore! Represent We the People or get out!
—————————
As usual, they didn’t listen, but I’ll keep telling them.
seriousprofessor:
Yes, but that would only play to the Republicans advantage. One less vote for a Democrat, means one more vote for a Republican and I despise them even more than the hopeless, spineless, vacillating Dems!
Sorry, seriousprofessor, I’m still not willing to quit voting. I live in the oh-so-conservative south so not voting for a Dem here means not voting at all.
Thanks for the shoulder to cry on, though.
Frosty Bunny–
You can stay Democratic for the primaries if you want to make a statement by voting for someone among the contenders whom you respect, then you can switch registrations to Green, Independent, etc for the general election and write in someone you respect.
Whether they win or not at this point may be less important than sending a message to the Dems that “Bush-Lite does not cut it.
Hopefully the Democrats will keep a very low profile while on vacation as a lynching is in order. Congress may as well just take an extended leave of absense and stay home and twiddle their collective thumbs. They have flushed just about every liberty left. Really, they can’t do much more damage with their insecurities and lack of conscience.
Poet:
“Whether they win or not at this point may be less important than sending a message to the Dems that “Bush-Lite does not cut it.”
You have a point. It’s risky, though. Consider all the Progressives who voted for Nader in 2000 to send a message. They had a very valid message, but now we’re stuck in Iraq, have Roberts and Alito on the SC and Dick Cheney is running the show in Washington.
Don’t quit voting, but vote for whom you really want to win. No vote is wasted. (Although I empathize with the sentiment.) This next election will almost certainly not have anyone in the Rep and Dem parties whom I want to vote for. Obama says Bush hasn’t done anything impeachable, and Hillary keeps voting for Bush’s pet projects. I may have to vote Libertarian.
Personal to Mr. Al Gore: Please run in 2008.
There is only one strong and tough Democrat - Denny Kuscinich, and only one strong and tough Independent - Bernie Sanders.
DUMP THE DEMOCRATS!
UNITE INTO A NEW THIRD PARTY NOW!
We the people, opposed to the destruction of the planet and it’s peoples, now atomized and powerless in “grass roots” and “special interest” groups, must unite our efforts and resources into a new party to replace the corrupt Democratic Party! A new party that rejects corporate funding in order to end the corporate plunder of the federal government.
A new party explicitly opposed to the Project for the New American Century. Opposed to unending war for profit and power. Cut the military budget by 50%, shut down the 700 military bases around the world. Re-instate taxes cut by Bush gang.
A new party that commits the entire resources of the country to end global warming, end imperialist wars, implements true non-profit universal health care. promotes mass transportation, develops renewaable energy, and produces the essentials for human survival.
A new party that promotes an economy that works towards fulfilling the economic needs of all the people, not just to profit a tiny minority of super wealthy. No more people living on the streets! No more hospitalized people being dumped into the streets when they have no money or health insurance! (See the film SICKO)
A new party to unite all of the oppressed people of this country. A new party that cuts across all the false social and cultural divisions that keep us forever powerless (racial, ethnic, age, language, etc.). A new party to unite us against the unending destruction of peoples and planet.
A SOCIALIST PARTY to promote the end of gangster capitalism, run-amok capitalism, which is supported by both Democratic and Republican parties.
A new party to support the labor movement and all working people. We urge the labor movement to stop supporting the Democratic Party (already besotted by corporate money), and to focus its precious resources to fund a new national radio and television network. By being on the air 24 hours a day the labor movement can provide the latest news, information, education and current affairs analysis desperately needed by all working people. This effort, combined with the formation of the new party, will be a bold step towards reviving the organized labor movement.
For years we have listened to radio programs like DEMOCRACY NOW! that has discussed with numerous “grass roots” groups desperately struggling to make a positive change in society. Anti-war protest groups, civil rights groups, union struggles, affordable housing groups, teachers unions, health care access, seniors about Social Security, have involved millions of people. Now is the time to unite the energy and resources of the people into a new party.
The new party provides a means of uniting the “special interest” agendas of each group into the platform of the new party. The new party candidates, selected from the various individuals and groups, would become the candidates representing their cause and the new party. The new party will contest for office at every level of government in order to take power. The new party will provide the new leadership and new programs this country desperately needs.
There is still time before November 2008 elections to start this process. Even the announcement and preparation for a founding convention of such a new party will shock both Democrats and Republican incumbents. They will know that their days are numbered!
The needs of all previous “minority” and “special interests” people now become the platform of the new party representing the vast majority of people. Can the existing activists of so-called “minority” and “special interest” groups overcome their existing powerlessness, and link up with each other to start this new party?
This all-inclusive struggle will attract millions of atomized working people, often non-voters and uninvolved people, who have been atomized, exploited, brain-washed by corporate media and ultimately destroyed by gangster capitalism.
Great freakin’ idea skst!!
Maybe if Al Gore runs he’ll pick Joe Lieberman to be his Vice again! Joe can simply re-register as a Democrat and it’s all good!!
Yeah, I LOVE Al Gore and Joe Lieberman! What a team!! Especially the way Gore caved when John Bolton ran into the room in Florida and screamed!! (along with the Republican “demonstrators” outside in the hall), “I’m with the Bush/Cheney team and I’m here to stop the count!!” I LOVED that! And just to think, with a little fighting Gore might have gone over the 537 votes Bush got to “win”. Oh well, c’est la vie!
Of course then Joe “AIPAC” Lieberman would have been vice. Oh well. I like the fact that Israel has a strong hand in all our legislative decisions. Really!! And listening to Lieberman lie and whine is a really special treat.
Yes. Al Gore is a real supporter of democracy and free and fair elections. Why didn’t I think of this??!
The only solution is what Cindy Sheehan is doing, to run as an independent. She’ll beat Neocon Nancy easily. San Francisco will not put up with a cheaply dressed middle aged liar who pissed on the constitution and thinks the president is a ‘charming man.’ Cindy Sheehan will start a 50-state movement to start a Third Party, and thats cares the sh*t out of Democraps.
The Democratic Party is rotten, always has been. Corrupt, criminal.
The really scary part is that they probably know the place, day and time of the next 9/11 and will let it happen anyway. And you know what, Democraps, Bush will blame it on you anyway. This time he’ll be right.
Gonzales is a known liar and political hack…so lets put our privacy soley in his hands…duh!!!
He has turned the Justice Dept into a political hit squad for the Republicans, and a stone wall to protect the corrupt Republicans…
and it is obvious that he will now use the unprecidented evesdropping powers to further attack the Democrats and protect the Republicans
It the Dems cant fight Bush, how are they going to fight Osamma?
I have to disagree, rbrisbane. There is no way Sheehan will beat Pelosi. What two things do Pelosi and Tom DeLay have in common besides both becoming Speaker? Both have the proven ability to raise buckets of cash for elections. Speaker was Pelosi’s reward for being a disciplined fund raiser.
Until we have public financing of elections, I’m afraid we’re stuck with these perpetual incumbents.
This article now represents the conventional wisdom. But Chris Floyd has a far more plausible intrepretation: http://www.chris-floyd.com/Articles/Articles/Danse_Macabre%3A_An_Apology_to_Democrats/
This post is dead on. I just don’t get it. I don’t get it. I’ve supported the democrats all of my adult life - I worked for an important one on Capitol Hill before 94 - and though I have been disappointed with my party before, I have never been disgusted. I am disgusted. Bush now says he wants MORE power when Congress gets back from recess. Well, duh. You Idiots. Idiots. You just gave them a blank check for a whole lot of things, not the least of which is to SPY ON YOU. Can’t win elections very well when the other side knows your every move. What political figure in the United States doesn’t discuss matters that “involve foreign intelligence” with foreign nationals? Frankly, the way I read this legislation, if you so much as call for support on your HP laptop (which routes to India) you are now subject to non-regulated U.S. executive branch surveillance. The bill of rights was toasted, folks - this nightmare has truly hit a new stage now. Thanks for voting in the Secret Police, Dems. Such organizations have such a lovely track-record historically.
Conrad:
Thanks for the link. Very interesting read.
I am a lifelong Democrat and I say you pick your battles. Whether is it CAFE or FISA or anything else, you deal with what is MOST important. Getting a decent living wage for workers is important, setting fuel economy standards can wait. The FISA issue is a no win situation. If you vote against more intrusion, you are soft on terrorism. If Bush truly violates peoples rights with any of the signing orders or legal provisions, then they will get him. A bit after the fact but remember, any law can be repealed or changed at anytime. It is the Constitution has must be changed with the permission of a very large majority that counts. True, Republicans have packed the courts with right wing conservatives, but they do not control all of it. This country has not fallen into the iron grip of the fascists, they just want you to think it has.
O.K. now. I’ve had it with the Dem’s. I will only vote FOR an individual that actually represents the people and will protect our Contitution and our rights. I like the idea of a third party, but we can’t get it off the ground fast enough. I think a better idea is to start a PAC that will only raise money for independent candidates that swaer allegence to the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the PEOPLE!!!
I believe that Cindy has a chance. But she needs all the dollars and help she can get to get her message across and educate folks. That goes for ANY independent candidate that is willing to run against the status quo.
Look, if we even have an election in ‘08, it won’t matter whether the Rebugs or the Dumbs get in. We are already a fascist republic. The only difference between the two parties is how fast the general public will realize this. With the Dumbs, it’s like a frog in a pot being raised to a slow boil. Your dead before you figure out what is going on. At least with the Repugs, the frog gets thrown into an already boiling pot and is dead before you know it. So, what’s the difference. The end result is the same.
It is horribly important that you vote in the primaries. Not for who you think might win, but for someone you actually believe in. No more least of evils. Evil ALWAYS wins that battle.
When it comes to the election itself, I can’t vote for ANY candidate that will not protect and defend the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the people of America. Period! I don’t really care who becomes president or wins any elected office or what party they come from anymore. I want to vote my beliefs and my conscience (sp). I will NEVER support a candidate because of their party affilition. My vote is all I have left. I will not give it to any candidate that does not represent me. EVER! I’ve had it.
Ask yourself: what has been gained by the Democrats’ November ‘06 victory? If Republicans had swept both houses, how would things be different? This past weekend, the Dems collaborated with Bush to cancel the 4th Amendment. Even John Ashcroft fought harder for civil liberties than the D’s!!
Neither big business party is capable of resisting the will of the financial oligarchy that runs the country. Both parties are marionettes for those interests, and it serves no useful purpose to pretend that one marionette is meaningfully better than the other.
Only a party whose outlook is not subordinate to big business can be expected to fight for goals opposed by business. If you want to see things as they are, you must recognize that the interests of business (Wall St, the military-industrial complex, oil companies, etc) are often in direct conflict with the interests of the rest of the population. The 2-party system itself, regardless of which rationalization you use for remaining within it (”Dems are less evil,” etc) is in effect a device for guaranteeing that political control of society remains 100% subordinate to big business. There’s no way out of this, within the 2-party framework.
People who think a big business party can be “hijacked” (PDA, etc) are kidding themselves. The Dem Party exists only to dupe working people into supporting candidates ultimately subservient to business interests. The Party pooh-bahs are not going to allow their party to be “hijacked” by environmentalists & antiwar types, whom they view with contempt.
Wouldn’t it be interesting: Dennis Kucinich vs. Ron Paul?
Everyone knows George Bush has been lusting for dictatorship ever since he stole his first and seconnd elections in 2000 and 2004. He came close after 9/11 and even closer with his Iraq War, so now all he needs is one more terrorist attack on U.S. soil to give him the excuse to declare marshall law, postpone the election for the duration of an endless emergency and begin arresting thousands of “suspects” = anyone who actively opposes his fascist agenda. Yet, despite such a horrendous threat, the American people appear stunned, hypnotized and too frightened to demand the only legal remedy - impeachment.
Whew! What a tragedy!!!!
It should be obvious to everyone by now that the “fight” between Democrats and Republicans is merely a puppet show to distract the masses while their money and freedom is being stolen…
Look beind the curtain and you will see that the Right(R) and Left(D)hands belong to the same entity, operating both puppets.
As of today, I am officially a registered Independent. Screw you, loyalbushieDems. And the worst worst part is, it is more than clear the Cheneybush Fascism Tour ‘07 is aimed only at their political enemies - in other words, YOU, you dipshits.
Jim Webb, how could you? The rest, sure, bunch of pussies. But you? Has their illegal spying uncovered a skeleton in your closet that they promised not to unleash if you drop to your knees and blow dear Loonitary Decider as he smokes what’s left of our Constitution in his warpipe?
SWITCH YOUR VOTER REGISTRATION FROM DEM TO INDY TODAY! RIGHT NOW! TEACH THE BASTARDS THE LESSON THEY NEED TO LEARN!
Here is a novel idea:
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, IT IS THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO ALTER OF ABOLISH IT
Republicans and Democrats are 2 sides to the same coin.
And coin is the operative word.
If the Democrats had 60 seats in the Senate, I might agree that they should have done more in the last 6 months. But the rules of the Senate require the 60 votes to get it to a vote.
Filibuster is designed to prevent the tyranny of the majority, no matter who is in charge. Even IF they had 60 votes, they could not override a veto unless they had 67. If you want the Democrats to make a difference, make sure they get 60 Senate seats and the Presidency in November 08.
Folks,
Time to let go of the Democrats. Free yourself. You always maintain an option to vote for them.
But you don’t have to automatically donate money or vote for them ( while holding your nose at the same time) just because they are not Repugs.
Politics as usual will prove ineffective if and when the next terrorist attack gives Bush the excuse to declare marshall law, postpone the elections and begin arresting thousands of “suspects” including anyone who actively opposes his fascist agenda.
HMMMMM…Do I support the Democrats or the Republicans….Democtats or Republicans….difficult decision.
I haven’t had this difficult a decision to make since both the Gambino and Genovese Crime Families were arguing about who got to burn down my business and extort protection money from me.
I agree with canuckchuck August 6th, 2007 2:49 pm.
Here’s a quote from the Chris Floyd article Conrad posted a link to above where Floyd is quoting Arthur Silber characterizing the Democrats:
“Endless war, an increasingly oppressive surveillance state, the evisceration of individual freedom and civil liberties, and ongoing chaos and destruction are all what they want.
“None of this is an ‘error’, or a ‘mistake in judgment’, or ‘good intentions’ gone awry. This is what they want.
“Never, ever forget it.”
Quoting from: sjc_1 August 6th, 2007 2:29 pm
“I am a lifelong Democrat and I say you pick your battles.
“…This country has not fallen into the iron grip of the fascists, they just want you to think it has.”
sjc, I think you’re in denial. Too much of what’s happened since 9/11 comes right out of Hitler’s playbook:
“Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as pardise.”
- Adolf Hitler -
German chancellor, Nazi leader
Mein Kampf
c. 1925 - 1926
Singapore is a model superficial ‘democracy’ in the New World Order. America’s following lock-step behind.
“Singapore is a model superficial ‘democracy’ in the New World Order. ”
At least Singapore has a good universal health care system.
Frosty bunny,
Not necessarily. If you view the election as contingent solely on having money, then you may be right. Though at this stage I’m beginning to wonder if a larger conspiracy isn’t afoot. That is, the president is chosen non-democratically long beforehand, and a lot of money is simply thrown at him/her to make it SEEM like money talks. That is, media coverage and money are tossed in as convenient smoke camoflague to generate this cynical sentiment, “Yeah, they got in because they had a lot of money…” Perhaps we should be so lucky that it was merely money?
The reason I raise this issue is that in the blogging/internet day in which a probably the majority og under-40 people get their information from free and quasi-free sources, the influence of money — either to get air time or to make it seem like money did it — is minimized.
I’m wondering if we’ll see the day when the people, through the blogs, independent media, etc. absolutely cannot stand candidate X, but they get elected anyway. Then we’ll see the extent of corruption in the system, the futility of voting, and that my theory on money will prove correct: perhaps money is just cover, it is not the deciding factor.
Included in Bush’s fascist agenda is Biblical Armageddon which, in these modern times, translates into nuclear World War Three against his “axis of evil”.
Already Clinton is touted as the “most electible”. Worked really well for Kerry, didn’t it? He, who was suddenly selected when he was polling below Lieberman. Clinton has higher negatives than any of them–from both sides, yet it is obvious to all that she is the selected. Should anyone emerge as a serious populist threat–not on the agenda, the class that monopolized all the levers of power will knock them flat and crush them. And we will be instructed to laugh or sneer or isolate them or tell them it is impossible, or complain about their egos or they are whiners. It is all so transparent–but what is so frightening is the SUCKERS who buy into all this and like battered wives, hope and pray that their party faithful will change come tomorrow.
stop mourning the slow death of the democrats. one party, two wings. they are the usefull idiots that that are helping to keep the public at bay while their friends strangle the last bit of life out of the constitution and bill of rights. things are just being prepped for the next 9-11 so the official enactment of the police state can be instituted. and think about it, once the hammer falls all that will be required of you is to shut up and continue shopping and nothing will happen to you. obviously, many who posted on this thread realize this. covering their backsides (cashflow) sure, voting public…never more irrelevent. all we are witnessing is human (animal) nature unchecked: as we have “evolved” we no longer kill for sustenance, we kill for comfort and pleasure. shouldn’t we take pride in being natures’ highest form of intelligent life? rhetorical, to say the most.
Frosty bunny, are you comparing Pelosi with Delay in an attempt to convince us that Sheehan can’t beat Pelosi? First, look at where Delay is now, indicted and out of congress. Second, Sheehan can raise a lot of cash as well. And third, San Francisco is not stupid.
They can see a lying, corrupt Bush enabler when they see one. I hope we can see a mug shot of Pelosi when she’s booked by the Hague soon, I bet she’ll have the same smirk Delay had in his.
jspkim August 6th, 2007 3:27 pm
“At least Singapore has a good universal health care system.”
If workers in America weren’t stupid enough to sell their labor without the added benefit of health and dental care, maybe we’d have a full-coverage system here, too.
One of my first jobs right out of high school in 1974 was working as a cashier in a car wash. That $5.00 an hour job provided medical and dental benefits. It wasn’t a union job but I thank the strength of the labor unions back then for creating a competitive labor market.
But, that was then…
Regardless of winning chances, I will be supporting Cindy’s campaign.
Go Cindy! Go kick that AIPAC girl’s butt!
The “strong tough” Dims caved again (even in the majority) to give Bush nearly unlimited wiretapping ability. Who needs them? If there is no alternative to Hillary Obama, count me out as a voter in this phony selection. It’s time to give up on the both wings of the Corporate party.
lastdregs August 6th, 2007 3:59 pm
“…voting public…never more irrelevent…”
I’ve come to the same conclusion. Are these other folks debating whether to vote democrat or independent, that corporate sell-out or this progressive populist, even living in reality?
As Siouxrose said yesterday, we are the proverbial frogs in the stew pot….
My grandmother used to say, “Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst?”
How do we go about joining together to prepare for the worst?
The only way I see out of this mess is to try to come to a consensus on voting and other strategies. Though our opinions are welcome and necessary, maybe we should keep in mind that fragmenting our power is to the fascist’s advantage.
The League of Conservation (not to be confused with conservative) Voters can help us choose our candidates based on their progressive voting records. And maybe we can unite around a third party like the Greens, the largest and fastest growing party that takes no bribes from the corporatocracy and uses consensus in their decision-making instead of corruptible pols.
But however strongly we feel about people and parties and as the opposition discovered to their advantage, we have to stand united. To stay together against the fascist threat.
“I have to disagree, rbrisbane. There is no way Sheehan will beat Pelosi. What two things do Pelosi and Tom DeLay have in common besides both becoming Speaker? Both have the proven ability to raise buckets of cash for elections. Speaker was Pelosi’s reward for being a disciplined fund raiser.”
I really don’t get why ‘fundraising’ is such an important aspect in ‘winning’ in an election. Politicians raise funds because they want to get their political message out, right ? Now, YOU, as the electorate, have to decide, you have to understand that somebody who has raised a large amount of funds is in fact a very COMPROMISED candidate. S/He has been bribed, so s/he cannot pursue the voter’s interest effectively any more. You already KNOW this, so what does it help if some idiot spends millions of dollars trying to convince you of something else: you already KNOW what it is that you want and it is INTEGRITY and that does not cost any money.
Remember: the voter always has the last word in a democracy and you should insist on this.
Send a clear message out to your representatives: anybody spending money on trying to convince you with hollow slogans, is wasting their money ! In that way, you can FORCE the politicians to go with publicly financed campaigns.
Try this list and see if its fits.
, 2004
American Fascism
Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14-defining characteristics common to each:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. TOP
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Gee…….. Looks like all 14 are in place.
@ ezeflyer
I am willing to render any support for a candidate under a united front, if a candidate promises 2 things
1. Stop all aggressive military operations on foreign soils.
2. A real public funded universal health care ( dismantle all private health insurance companies)
No compromise on these 2 terms.
I know that Kucinich supports both positions, but believe me , come next year you will receive an email from him saying
” Be a good Democrat and vote for the party nominee regardless of the positions”
At least that’s what I got from him in 2004.
Anyone notice the article below this it titled “Soft Belly of the Democrats”
I found that funny.
It’s very simple, really. Do EVERYTHING possible to get Kucinich (or whomever you agree with) nominated. Quit saying “fill-in-the-blank has no chance of winning”. If the inevitable does happen, and Obama-Clinton-Edwards-Gore get the nomination you can do EVERYTHING possible to work for someone else who shares your beliefs.
This is assuming that the election actually happens of course.
“the Democrats are not spineless or weak. Nobody pushes them to do what they don’t want … They’re completely corrupt and fully, volitionally complicit.”
From: Empire Burlesque - by Chris Floyd
Danse Macabre: An Apology to Democrats
Posted: 05 Aug 2007 06:59 PM CDT
I would like to apologize to the leaders of the Democratic Party for implying in my previous post that they are political cowards. I confess that I was carried away, rhetorically, in the heat of the moment, and was completely mistaken in ascribing their actions on the recent warrantless wiretapping bill to “spineless acquiescence” to the Bush Administration’s authoritarian proclivities.
As one of Empire Burlesque’s readers pointed out, that phrase was inconsistent with the rest of the piece, for it implied that the Democratic elite were actually opposed to the essence of Bush’s authoritarian/corporatist/militarist agenda, and were somehow acting against their will in surrendering to Bush time and again during the past six years. As the reader noted, drawing on Arthur Silber’s analysis (more on this below), the Democrats “are not spineless or weak. Nobody pushes them to do what they don’t want (no matter how much the Digbys would like to explain away their actions that way.). They’re completely corrupt and fully, volitionally complicit.” The reader also pointed me to a comment they’d left on Glenn Greenwald’s takedown of the vote: “It doesn’t take any courage to do what you want to do. Just the opposite. They WANT all these things, but can hardly reveal that to their often sincere but easy-to-dupe followers, so they hide behind the ‘we were threatened, Bush made us do it, we’re spineless, and we don’t want to look weak,’ meme. They cop a plea to the lesser charge but the truth is, tragically, far more dark.”
I think that’s exactly right. They cop to cowardice to cover up complicity. As I said…
———————————————–
Oh man, is this ab so lute ly 1000% right.
The Democrats cop to cowardice to cover their complicity.
There is no “opposition party.” There is no opposition.
(see all the Associated Press/NY Times pimp media reportage - it all refers to “Pressure from President Bush.”
What ? Exactly what pressure could he conceivably exert at this point ?
Nahhh. There was no pressure, because the Democrats needed NO CONVINCING.
Nobody involved in this had to be coerced or muscled. No one has been bamboozled, fooled by bad intelligence, whipped by some Party functionary, or whipsawed into going against one sliver of what we used to call conscience.
They are ALL in it together, and the names they have chosen for their respective political parties is as relevant as the limitless plasticity of their vertebratitude.
NONE of this is bungling, or cowardice or inadvertent.
As I have bleated forever- Bush’s is idiocy by design.
Bush may be a Dunce, but his bosses sure ain’t.
They have achieved everything they set out to achieve-
in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and in the resource-rich areas of Africa.
Chaos, disorder, breakdown of infrastructure, vacuums in which to leap with Blackwaters and Green Zones and Concrete Walls.
Now take a deep breath. This is going to be really painful.
And repeat after me-
slowly- with great feeling:
They
Are
All
In
It
Together.
Once we GET it–
Once we dump the brainwashing about Our Great Country that has been hammered into our poor defenseless brains since we were six, once we LOOK at what the hell is really going on-
The conclusion is as obvious as the Federal Deficit:
They
Are
All
In
It
Together.
And, unless and until WE stop them, WE are all in it with them.
There is a gotcha culture in the corporate media that is just constantly gunning for Democrats. In this case it is a Catch 22 where “Fred Hiatt has spent the last several years demanding that Democrats show their Seriousness by capitulating to most Bush “terrorism” policies” Then when he gets what the want from the Dems he calls it “Warrantless Surrender”
How do you win in this sort of uneven landscape? I don’t condone the capitulation in any way shape or form. And can only shake my head at the utter spinelessness that the democrats are exhibiting by not defending the constitution. I’m so sad to see that they are being so badly outplayed. But I’m not even close to sure I think the post would have applauded had they shown appropriate spine.
To All Missourians –
Sen. Claire McCaskill voted FOR this bill. It is extremely difficult to have a Democrat official elected from Missouri, but she has just lost my vote for re-election.
Please spread the word to anyone you know in Missouri. Thanks.
PS — I’m sorry.
Chicken Little, meet Chicken Shit. Biden and Clinton should get along fine with this one. Today the funeral for the death of the United States of America was held at Arlington National Cemetery. Halliburton provided the guns for the 21 gun salute at about $100 million to the taxpayers. Bechtel got another $100 million for the casket. Dictator in Thief Ima Dick Cheney gave the last rites while mini-me W played the role of decider in his sandbox.
Former citizens of the US can apply for citizenship in the new Republic of Criminales with the new immigration Czar Generalissimo Alberto Gonzales. If you do not agree with any of this you can go to Iraq or a desert of your choosing for free.
drubinbson - you got it so right - but now you will be among the 350,000 former Americans who will be disappeared to GITMO or Abu Graib or Bagram. Anyone who has already blogged or written about the loss of our nation (it is lost folks - time to come out of the coma now) has earned a spot among the list of 350,000 American CITIZENS who are now listed as potential national security threats. The next administration - if there is one - will simply modify the term to become TERRORIST - the bus ride then begins. I’ll see you on the bus d-rub!!
If my Congressional “representative” is any indication, the Democrats are in fact protecting their political backsides.
She spends a lot of time boasting about the “important” issues she’s concerned with… not one of them have anything to do with ending the war in Iraq or the egregious power grabs of the executive branch. It’s all fluff and bullshit.
The Democratic Party is run by liars and cowards, the Republican Party is run by racists and fascists. They are both controlled by woman-hating, corporate greed. Liberals reading this believe “t.i.n.a.”–there is no alternative–because you are afraid of losing your perks, your bribes. You also don’t care that American fascism has already taken control of and slaughtered millions of non-white and non-rich people around the world (Start by looking at the 3,000,000 homeless people in the USA, count the 2,000,000 inmates, the 12,000 immigrants rounded up and deported in the last year, the 800,000 Iraqi deaths in the last five years, and, by the way, remember Katrina?). NOW you want to start complaining about your rights, your Constitution, and want to beg Big Mama Clinton or Big Daddy Barak to come change your diaper for you? Grow the hell up! You are, objectively, aiding the spread of fascism!
IF the Left, the liberals, the students, yuppies and boomers were ever finally able, and WILLING, to unite behind a single NON-evil lesser party and candidate (Greens? McKinney? Nader? Sharpton? Kucinich? Peace & Freedom? )–and to stop ignoring the real needs of women, workers, children, people of color, and the EARTH–there would be a SMALL chance that American fascism would not destroy the peace-loving people of this beautiful planet. But as history has shown, liberals–especially, but not exclusively, American, white liberals–are ignorant and arrogant political wimps who actually believe that they won’t be hurt by political half-measures. To paraphrase the Last Poets, “Liberals Are Scared of Revolution!”
I heard Glenn on Democracy Now! using the word “baffled” concerning the capitulation of the Democratic Party in submission to the will of Bush. Glenn is not alone in using this word or others that convey the same meaning. The discussion of Democratic ineffectiveness usually tails off at this point of bafflement rather than leading to an examination of the commonly held assumptions that lead to and terminate the progression of logic in bafflement.
One means of becoming baffled is to see events unfold in ways logically contrary to one’s operating assumptions. A common assumption is that the Democratic Party actually wants to win and will always see its own interests furthered by winning. Another assumption is that the Democratic Party represents broader middle class interests despite being composed of upper class powerful people, whether they become members of this class before or during their terms of office.
Information is scarce, or not widely disseminated, about the motivations for the Democratic alignment with Bush. While not knowing what Democratic motivations are, new assumptions can be made that allow events to unfold as they have without being baffled.
For example, assume that the common class of the dominant factions of both the Democratic and the Republican parties are of the same dominant social and economic classes and are united in their shared class interests.
Assume that the 9 million unregistered black voters who will vote 90% Democratic, and will guarantee Democratic wins, are not wanted in the Democratic Party because they will further disrupt the party’s class purity and unity, and move the party to the left, contrary to the advice of political consultants. The blacks, the left, and those opposed to illegal wars and violations of domestic and international law make up an undesired electorate and undesired constituents of an enlarged and winning Democratic Party.
Assume that the polity not in agreement with the Democratic Party has no where to go and are effectively owned by that party due to a greater disagreement with the Republican Party. Assume that no concessions need to be made to these “misfits” to capture their votes and they can be effectively ignored.
Assume that the Democratic Party will work to disenfranchise any third party that these undesirables may form or join with far more vigor than they will bring to the containment of the Republican party monarchical aspirations.
Banish bafflement by recognizing the changes in the Democratic Party and updating operating assumptions on how they will behave. Don’t be surprised. I’m not.
truly…..there is nothing for which they will not cave…..
That’s low-down, dirty Nader talk, followthemoney! We don’t stand for this kind of trollish incursion in our cybercommunity here, and furthermore…
… Wait. Whoops- wrong blog!
You know, you make a lot of sense there, compadre!
Please stop using terms like ‘capitulation’, or ‘cave-in’ or ‘weak’ or ’spineless’. None are correct when describing the Democrats. Using these terms implies that the Democrats don’t support these policies, but that they somehow are too weak to stand for what they believe.
That’s just BS. There’s a long track record here. Just look at it. The determined policy of the Democratic Party has been to consistently support bills that take away the rights of American citizens. The Democrats supported the Patriot Act almost unanimously. They’ve supplied key votes that have helped make the Patriot Act permanent. The Democrats have consistently supported every bill in the last five years that takes away the rights of Americans.
Sometimes the Democrats will vote No. But only after the leadership makes sure there are sufficient Yes votes that the bill will pass. Then the leadership will release others to vote No if they feel they need to politically. But you must not miss the key fact that the leadership always supports these bills and that the leadership always has sufficient willing votes to make sure of passage.
And take close note that the Democrats never stop a bill like this with a filibuster. That the key sign that tells you that the No votes were symbolic. The Senators that voted No had a effective tool to stop this bill if they wanted to stop it. The fact that they did not stop it indicates their support for the bill even with a symbolic No vote.
And take close note that it has never been a priority of the leadership of the party to roll back the awful bills passed during the Republican led congresses. There’s no attempt to repeal the Patriot Act. There’s no attempt to repeal the Military Commissions Act. There is no attempt whatsoever to restore rights that Americans have lost. Face it, we lost these rights with the approval of the Democrats all along, and the Democrats have no intention of trying to restore those rights.
So quit telling me the Dems are spineless, or cowards, or weak, or that they cave-in. Give me a friggin break. There is a long track record of Democratic support for exactly these policies. If you vote Democrat, this is what you get. If you keep thinking they are spineless, then you are lying to yourself. Stop it.
Its time to build and support a political movement that represents Americans and defends the rights of Americans. Its plain that the Democrats are not this movement, and that attempts to do this within the Democratic party are a waste of time.
QUOTE:
Frosty bunny August 6th, 2007 12:52 pm
seriousprofessor:
Yes, but that would only play to the Republicans advantage. One less vote for a Democrat, means one more vote for a Republican and I despise them even more than the hopeless, spineless, vacillating Dems!
END QUOTE
Yes, but, yes, but, yes, but, yes but. I’ve heard that umpteen times when I’ve tried to talk with gullible Dem koolaid drinkers.
People like “Frosty Bunny” are still drinking the Dems’ koolaid. I’ve heard this crap about “you’re only playing to the Repugs…one less vote for D means one more vote for a R. And you **still** think it makes a difference after all you’ve seen the Dems do for Bush since 2000?
I despise the Dems more than I despise the Repug. That’s because I expect the Repugs to be who and what they are: Scum.
Pre-2000, I would not have expected the Dems to be who and what they are now: Scum.
Some people fall for the Dems’ occasional posturing, charades and theatre of some so-called “opposition.” Some people fall for the Dems’ smiles, meanwhile the Dems help Bush shred the US Constitution.
We got into this disaster, in part, because of those people who voted time and again for the “lesser of two evils”…the “Anybody But Bush” crowd.
And by continuing to vote for the “lesser of two evils” just because some Repug neocon like Hillary still has a D behind her and if there is a 2008 election, “we” will continue to spin and spin and spin in this deep, deep rut.
The one-party system with two right wings must be completely abandoned before anything has a chance of changing in this nation.
One has the CHOICE to completely abandon the useless and worthless Democratic party and become either an independent (small “i” ….meaning no party affiliation) or a member of the Green Party, for example).
Assuming there is a 2008 election, “we” are not going to vote our way out of this dictatorship. It’s impossible.
The only possible options left are:
1. Long national strikes
2. MILLIONS and MILLIONS (not hundreds) of people taking to the streets in every city and town across this nation, particularly in the District of Columbia.
Do I live under any illusion that these two things are going to happen? No. Because most of the public don’t seem to care, even if some know what’s going on.
As a local talk show host has said repeatedly since taking thousands of calls following 9-11:
“Most Americans do not deserve America.”
I hope this brief story will shed some useful light on the discussion. All of you raise very good points as usual. Yesterday I was sitting in Minneapolis airport. I always bring reading material with me because usually airports repeatedly show the MSM crap (in this case it was CNN). Rick Sanchez was reporting on the two gentlemen of Middle Eastern descent who were pulled over in South Carolina (or somewhere in that region) for a routine traffic stop. After inspecting their car, law enforcement officers detained them for suspicion of carrying explosives. Sanchez badly wanted to connect these guys to terrorism. Everybody watching the television seemed to become consumed by this story. Not more than twenty minutes later, breaking news appears, saying the FBI claimed these guys were carrying materials to make fireworks. Sanchez to say the least looked like a fool. A few people in the boarding area were disgusted with Sanchez’s misleading story while others did not react at all, shrugged it off, and kept watching television. It was at that point that I realized here is the problem. All of us at CD want to change politics because we see the Titanic sinking. These other people are either ignore it or do not give a shit, because they figure the military or government will take care of the problem. In short, they have not had to feel the economic pain of the cost of this war, will fly home, kiss their loved ones, go back to work, purchase items with their credit cards, drive their SUV’s… you get the picture. Folks, we are wasting our time going after politicians. We need to educate the masses, IF we can. That might be a better (and easier) starting point.
Claudius,
I’m glad you said “IF we can” at the end of your post.
I have tried to do that with people and found it to be most frustrating/impossible. People turned off or tuned out. Or I was asked by some relatives I was trying to educate:
“Where do you get your information?” And then the patronising question, “Do you believe everything you read on the Internet?” Followed by, “I’ve not heard anything about this on ABC News or Fox.” “Oh that can’t be happening…I haven’t heard that anywhere.” “What do you do for fun? Do you have any fun in your life?”
Sigh.
I’ve also gotten the same reaction on the Internet. No link to an article (to explain something) is ever credible or sufficient (and I would often link to CommonDreams or BBC News, some place credible). I was dismissed no matter what approach I used.
People have to want to be educated before one can help in that regard. From my observations, I think people are tuning out. They are more interested in Barry Bonds, Harry Potter, American Idol, Do you want to sing (or whatever the name of it is), Paris Hilton, their latte, going to the mall to buy cheap made-in-China junk to fill up the already-full landfills…
Well, I’m talking to “the choir” now. You already know all of this.
Peace.
Locust- words well said-“ Republicans and Democrats are 2 sides to the same coin.
And coin is the operative word.”
As was mentioned previously:
“We have no political parties. We’ve never had much of them, I mean the Democrats, the Republicans. We have one party. We have the party of essentially corporate America. It has two right wings, one called Democratic, one called Republican.”—-Gore Vidal
Where to go and what to do?
When in the course of human events . . .
We sometimes are reduced to that primal fear of the state, which can be expressed as ‘flight or fight’.
I don’t think I’ll try getting on a slow boat to China.
We go to ourselves. Every opposition faction should be researching everything we can lay our hands on. These people are fruitcakes, both sides of the aisle. How many AK 47s disappeared in Iraq? 190,000. Intended for Iraqi military, the one the U.S. has set up as a proxy force. Well, guess what, bright buns? The phony Iraqi government is infiltrated by the resistance, which would happen anywhere, a basic tenet of partisan warfare, which, for some reason, the entire government of the United States continues to be surprised by. And that’s why we’re going to win in this country, too, eventually. They’re too fucking arrogant to do anything but profiteer off of both sides in any conflict, and that’s how we’ll get them, here at home, EVEN if it goes to war in the streets.
The more the U.S. ruling elite do what they’re doing, the more isolated they are in the world. The more mercenaries they hire, the more they offset the basic decency of people in the military who joined because they believe in this country, people who will get tired of shooting us under the direction of mercenaries. Then the military is split at home, as well as abroad.
No, we’ll win, if we build a unified, independent front against the new neo-fascism, rooted in the needs of the working class majority and its allies in the small business sector and the countryside. We’ll win. Who needs the fucking democrats?
It seems we all have a little spark of something that’s been moving like a river through history. It floods. It dries up. It meanders. Sometimes the information seems so dry compared to that river…whatever it is. Chomsky’s information is so dry, yet the day you’re into thoroughness…he’s the champ & he’s riveting. Our many selves (a book).
I agree with claudius.
Workability Dept
I posted a couple general questions I have re data-acquistion germane at what is presently the bottom of Saturday’s Ferraro/Cowan piece.
Here’s another one (both the one referenced above and the one following deal with bare bones mechanics of the thing). Assuming all the interpreters and data mining technology find the needle in the haystack amidst the communiques utilizing regular vernacular…and/or assuming they break down all the code talk used in place of terms that normally get flagged…what about the encrypted communications between banks for instance? If it is assumed any instructions might be tucked away in that stuff, they’ll have to hire a large army to guard all the encryption keys, no?
Sometimes I think the powers that be haven’t spent enough time reading on the internet, never having come across
6-7 here.
With the above in mind it seems to me the only alternative is to begin wooing with policy THE PEOPLE of the earth. More hard line stuff just augments the problems we’ve already inherited.
CAMUS: Great posting on the common behaviors of all “successful” fascists. I wonder if a copy is up in the royal bathroom?
Canuck-chuck: You were especially funny with your analogies today, the mafia one made me laugh out loud. (And I needed that after all the articles on our nation’s nuclear past and potential future ambitions.)
erma,
I totally understand your frustration with people who are more interested in American Idol, the NFL, MSM spin, etc. I think it is going to have to get to the point where these people really have to feel the pain through their pocketbooks before they wake up and begin to call for political change. And by that time, who knows where we will be??
Fustration is. When I have my head on right, I know the best I can do is just live well with the people around me. If and when the time comes to live or die with a weapon in my hand, then I will do that too. What I do not want to do is waste so much of my life pissin’ and moaning about all this. I am not willing to lead, because I know very well what it looks like when I think I am a leader and I turn around and there is no one there (grin) but I would surely follow a man with a battle plan. And it is going to take a battle, blood and a whole new way of living on this earth if real people hope to survive. Otherwise, it’s jackboots on our necks, Brothers.
Veteran, 1966-68
Now! will someone believe me, for the past 20 years I’ve been saying we have only one political party. Things have been geting better and better for the corperations funded by you the tax funder, well you can’t be faulted your jest stupid people watching T.V. Toled what to think.
Why don’t you all stop validating each others politcal identitys, inflating each others egos and endlessly wasting your narcisisssssstic neandethal ass’s time here and go hang up/pass out information in public areas.
ugh.
these comments f-ing suck—
quit blowing each other and do something more productive—
and prove you really do care.
Anarchists aren’t afraid at all. Fear isn’t part of the anarchist vocabulary. Anarchists have long ago conquered their fears with rationality and science and experience. So when shit hits the fan, and at the rate that Americans are burning money and soldiers and oil and coal and gas and uranium, you’ll just have to take it on my word that shit is going to hit the fan - very very soon, it’ll be the anarchists that save your pathetic fearful liberal democratic asses. So I suggest you all be very nice to anarchists.
The problem with Democrats is that, unlike the Rethugs, we expect them to behave otherwise. So this is ultimately a problem with the American people, a cognitive dissonance that they entertain.
In a sad way, an anarchist should really advocate voting for the most heinous authoritarian out there. Vote for the most mafia-esque Rethug in the running. Let’s run this country to the ground, as quick as possible, until something snaps and we get a chance to start out fresh. A Cheney/Rove ticket anyone? Another term for the Shrub? Won’t be the first rule he’s broken, nor the last.
Thank you sjc-1 for being a voice of reason! Please keep repeating what you are saying — maybe eventually people will begin to understand how the rules of the Senate work! Too bad our schools fail in teaching civics, government and history…
sjc_1 August 6th, 2007 2:57 pm
If the Democrats had 60 seats in the Senate, I might agree that they should have done more in the last 6 months. But the rules of the Senate require the 60 votes to get it to a vote.
Filibuster is designed to prevent the tyranny of the majority, no matter who is in charge. Even IF they had 60 votes, they could not override a veto unless they had 67. If you want the Democrats to make a difference, make sure they get 60 Senate seats and the Presidency in November 08.
Sure, the senate rules trump the laws of physics any day.
That information will surely come in handy for the tattered suits when they are crawling around on their hands and knees in the woods grubbing up insects and grasses for breakfast.
Thank you so much for enlightening us on just how out of touch with reality Americans democratic and republican actually are.
Here are some numbers anarchists keep handy : national debt, US population, world population, atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration, etc. Any of these ring a bell? Ding?
“If you want the Democrats to make a difference, make sure they get 60 Senate seats and the Presidency in November 08.”
More lies and garbage from paid internet hacks. If you want real difference, you vote for anyone BUT Democrats. Vote for Sheehan, a real alternative to Republicans. Vote for an Independent and wipe out Democrats.
Pelosi and Reid didn’t even HAVE to bring this to a vote, they did it because they chose to. They are George Bush’s enablers and accomplices.
Micki (another Dem koolaid drinker),
The Dems could have EVERY seat in the congress both house and senate and not a damn thing would change from the way it is now. Period.
You (and a couple of others) are still living under this illusion that the Dems are something that they have demonstrated repeatedly that they are NOT. They have enabled Bush and Cheney since Day One. They have helped Bush/Cheney/Rove create the Bush Dictatorship.
I listened to Mike Malloy tonight and got very frustrated. Caller after caller was grasping at ANYTHING to make excuse after excuse for these useless Bush-Enablers in congress with a D behind their name. Oh “they have this big plan, you know” several callers said. Yeah, uh huh. Big plan eh? “They’re conslidating their power so when they get in in 2008 they will have all this power.” Yeah, uh huh. (You Dem suckers think there’s going to be an election then, do you?) Callers were grasping at anything to the point of being ridiculous. Some fool even called in and said, “I don’t think Hillary is an evil person.”
Some people will never see the Dems for who they are because they don’t want to see the Dems for who and what they are: Corporate whores.
Denial is a very comfortable place for many people. And Denial has helped to get us where we are today.
At this point, I have no room whatsoever for Dem koolaid drinkers. You will remind me fundamentalist christians who never say anything negative about their god, their church or their minister. Dem koolaid drinkers are hell bent to protect their indefensible Bush-Enabling Dem party. Hell bent to make excuse after excuse for the Dems.
It doesn’t matter matter how many seats the Dems have in congress, NONE OF THE DEMS ARE REQUIRED TO VOTE “YES” FOR the USAPATRIOT ACT, “YES” for two illegal wars and occupation, “YES” for Alito, “YES” for Roberts, “YES” for Gonzales, “YES” for Rumsfeld, “YES” for spying and “YES” for reauthorization of the USAPATRIOT ACT, “YES” for torture, “YES” for funding the Iraq occupation over and over and over.
Do you get it yet? What have the Dems done for YOU since 2000?
Well, let’s see. Window-dressing stuff. They put on these theatre shows they call “hearings.” And now they are considering a little slap on the wrist censure for the Bush Crime Family whom the Dems have been enabling since 2000. UGH.
Also, in a 97-0 vote in the Senate recently, the Senate has authorized Dictator Bush to attack Iran.
I could go on and on but I won’t because most people on here already “get it” and know all this. There are just a few D hold out who make themselves look silly by making excuse after excuse for a party that has done absolutely nothing for any of us since 2000.
Dems cut from the same blood stained cloth as Repugnicans. Sheep in wolve’s clothing.
Excuse me. What, exactly, does “soft on terrorism” mean?
CAMIS, very informative and apt description of what we have here to look forward to. Now I am going back to my 48 inch TV to watch some fair and balanced commentary on the networks to get myself back in a good mood again. Maybe flipping through a dozen or so sports channels will dull my senses and everything will be beautiful. Then there are the shopping and food shows so why worry, life is good!
Huey Long said it around 1930: “The country’s like a big restaurant and it has Democratic waiters and Republican waiters. It doesn’t matter what you order because everything is cooked up in the same Big Business kitchen”
We should really get behind cindy Sheehan. Pelosi has one of the safest seats in Congress and routinely gets 80% of the vote. Think of the impact on politics in this country if the House Majority Leader lost her safe seat to an outsider. That would shake things up!
How long has the Democratic Party been promising? How long have they been delivering? Remember, they first proposed National Health in 1948. Do we have it yet?
The question was asked “what have they done for us since 2000?” They really haven’t done much since Nixon resigned.
erma thank you for your post. CommonDreams should ban Democratic kool-aid drinkers from posting, they just occupy cyberspace with repeated nonsense day after day.
After this debacle, anyone who votes to support the Democratic establishment is a gullible fool.
Replace Bush with Ron Paul in 2008, if you want to undo this madness.
And replace Pelosi with Cindy Sheehan.
I spend hours reading everyone’s posts on Commondreams.
Yesterday I went to ABC.com to see if it was true that Ron Paul overwhelmingly won their poll. It was incredible to see the graph! He got about 35,000 votes compared to a few thousand for Romney, Guilliani etc., yet ABC continued to not post his photo on the homepage, only those of their chosen “front-runners”, and there was no mention of the poll results. You had to look for them.
I logged in for the first time to write a comment. Later on I came back and there were about 40 comments there regarding what I had posted. Practically all were totally inane.
Which brings me to my point. Commondreams has the most thoughtful individuals posting comments I have ever read. I feel as if I know many of you very well.
Sometimes someone will go missing for a few days and I’ll wonder where they are. As if it’s a member of my family.
I want you to all know how much I appreciate your thoughts.
And in answer to the question above posted by “Calico”: “Imagine yourself as a character on the world stage. What role would you most like to play?”
I believe in “the tipping point”. Which goes to “The Hundredth Monkey” story.
As the story goes, all the monkeys on Earth would dig up potatoes and eat them with the dirt still covering them.
One day a monkey got the idea to go down to the river and wash the dirt off the potato. As he sat by the river enjoying his potato another monkey noticed, came down and washed his. Then another and another. Finally the hundredth monkey came down to the river. When he washed his potato there was an evolutionary leap in consciousness and suddenly all the monkeys on Earth began washing their potatoes.
I’d like to be the hundredth monkey, politically speaking.
Spike August 7th, 2007 2:51 am
“Excuse me. What, exactly, does “soft on terrorism” mean?”
It’s just a little catch-phrase used by both parties to make certain that the fearful in our society willingly help the Corporatocracy destroy the Bill of Rights and our Constitution. “Rule through fear”.
I have to laugh at these fear-ridden people when they talk about “having nothing to hide” and don’t mind giving up their rights for their security, implying that surrendering civil liberties will protect them from terrorist acts while our borders remain open and only 1% of the containers shipped to this country get inspected.
We’re living in a decade of the shrinking brain where synapses and neurons are on a permanent vacation from reality.
ABBYWOOD: I agree with you. This is a community and we develop feelings for one another. On that note, maybe the CD forum should set up carpools in each state to go to DC in September for the impeachment event? I put the offer out to residents of Florida who post on this site. We can pool resources and make the drive for September 15. Is anyone interested?
Also, as per the 100th monkey analogy, were you implying WE should all post on the MSM message boards since in this forum many of us are well informed about current issues? I believe it was CLAUDIUS who suggested that strategy several weeks ago. It IS a good one.
Kathy Kelly left a website where we could contribute money to a children’s ART fund in Iraq. I would LOVE to do this. Now that Bush has enacted this loose law that could confiscate property of those seen to aid and abet their “war” efforts wherever, I wonder if CD could sponsor a fund so that our individual names are not on any list and yet we still get to support this project which in a very small way minimizes the destruction our nation has wrought on this sovereign people. Ideas?
rbrisbane:
“CommonDreams should ban Democratic kool-aid drinkers from posting”
I assume that’s aimed at me and my kind?
Look, it’s great to champion a third party way. If one existed, I’d be a happy camper, indeed. But we don’t have one and *never* had in the history of our country due to the nature of our system of government.
Seasonedcitizen (great name, btw) mentioned earlier that McCaskill voted for the legislation and come election time seasonedcitizend won’t be voting for her. Which means, presumably, no vote at all in that election? Or a vote for the Republican? I dunno…
//pause
…if I were a Republican, I’d love all this talk on Common Dreams of not supporting the Dems.
You all can call me a sucker/fool/koolaide drinker all you like (sticks and stones, you know
), but don’t forget the 2000 election. Nader ran a really remarkable campaign, but *still* only snared about 2% of the vote.
At one point I thought there was no difference between the two parties, but 7 years of Bush have convinced me otherwise. If there had been no splintering of the Dems in 2000, Gore would be president today and we wouldn’t have Iraq, Gitmo, Alito, Roberts, the Patriot Act, hell maybe Gore would’ve read “Bin-Laden Determined to Strike US” and 9-11 would have been stopped.
Are the Dems, like the Republicans, the money party? For the most part, yes. But, given a choice of Bush in 2000 or Gore in 2000, it’s hard to argue that the outcome would have been the same, or worse, if Gore had been elected.
rsbrisbane:
Ahh the thought of DeLay’s mugshot makes me smile. Thanks. As for Sheehan, I hope she can get elected, but truly, I don’t see it happening. At least, not against a powerful incumbent like Pelosi. Money is the evil in the system.
Speaking of money…
Paul Bramscher:
“the president is chosen non-democratically long beforehand”
This reminds me of an interview with Condeleeza Rice on Frontline a few years ago. Basically she recounted the tale of how she and Dick Cheney were brainstorming years earlier, casting about for a Republican standard bearer who they (Rice and Cheney) could propel to the presidency. So there is truth in what you say.
As for the scenario you suggest, I think you may well be right. The media anoints a corporate hack as winner and money follows, thus allowing the campaign to flourish.
As for the internet, it’s why I have some hope for the future of the country. It’s an end run around the corporate powers that control the traditional media.
Frosty bunny:
“If there had been no splintering of the Dems in 2000, Gore would be president today and we wouldn’t have Iraq, Gitmo, Alito, Roberts, the Patriot Act, hell maybe Gore would’ve read “Bin-Laden Determined to Strike US” and 9-11 would have been stopped.”
Sorry, I can’t agree. Bush was installed because of electoral fraud. Democrats stood “shoulder to shoulder” with Bush on the White House lawn in the rush to war, voted for the USAPATRIOT Act, and generally have given him everything that he wanted.
It is better to do the right thing, even if it doesn’t ultimately happen, than to do the admittedly wrong thing because you know you might win. The Dems have very efficiently bled all meaning out of “winning.”
As long as you remain more concerned with winning than with the ideas that might attach to winning, you will get Republican dominance. The only question is whether a capital D or capital R attaches.
seriousprofessor:
“Democrats stood “shoulder to shoulder” with Bush on the White House lawn in the rush to war, voted for the USAPATRIOT Act, and generally have given him everything that he wanted.’
All true. Which lands me right where I was at the beginning of this page.
Rebel Farmer (August 6th, 2007 2:29 pm) said:
I like the idea of a third party, but we can’t get it off the ground fast enough.
[end quote from Rebel Farmer]
COMarc (August 6th, 2007 7:33 pm) said:
… quit telling me the Dems are spineless, or cowards, or weak, or that they cave-in. Give me a friggin break. There is a long track record of Democratic support for exactly these policies. If you vote Democrat, this is what you get. If you keep thinking they are spineless, then you are lying to yourself. Stop it.
Its time to build and support a political movement that represents Americans and defends the rights of Americans. Its plain that the Democrats are not this movement, and that attempts to do this within the Democratic party are a waste of time.
[end quote from COMarc]
erma (August 6th, 2007 7:46 pm) said:
… by continuing to vote for the “lesser of two evils” just because some Repug neocon like Hillary still has a D behind her and if there is a 2008 election, “we” will continue to spin and spin and spin in this deep, deep rut.
The one-party system with two right wings must be completely abandoned before anything has a chance of changing in this nation.
[end quote from erma]
The Green Party is already off the ground, on the ballot in 20 states and working on petitioning in many others. It is possible that we will not be on the ballot in all states because some states have particularly restrictive ballot access laws.
More importantly, the Green Party is solidly opposed to the war for oil; in favor of impeaching Bush and Cheney; wants to repeal all the oppressive and undemocratic passed by Republicans and Democrats going back at least to Taft-Hartley and Price-Anderson, including of course the Patriot Act and similar obscenities; and wants an energy policy that starts with conservation, public transportation, and rebuilding cities instead of investing in sprawling suburbs and exurbs.
We could use help, and we deserve it. With the support of progressives who support our goals, the Green Party can be a big factor in the 2008 elections, pushing the country in the direction of democracy and social justice. If you are ready to abandon the “one party with two wings” system and work for these goals, there is a lot of work to be done. Continuing to support Democrats and expecting different results is just … (pick any that fit: insane, ineffective, a sign of cognitive dissonance, business as usual).
QUOTE;
Paul from Texas August 7th, 2007 6:13 am
Replace Bush with Ron Paul in 2008, if you want to undo this madness. And replace Pelosi with Cindy Sheehan.
END QUOTE
Replace Bush with Ron Paul? What makes you think Dictator Bush is leaving? At the rate things are going with “The Decider” who wants more and more power and speaks about “MY Govermnent” in his speeches, what makes you think there will even be an election in 2008? There could be an election (another stolen one, mind you) but I don’t think Bush has any intention of leaving. I’ll believe he’s leaving when he leaves and not until.
And Ron Paul? Why on Earth would **any** truly liberal or progressive person vote for a Repug/Libertarian like Ron Paul? From what I know about Ron Paul, I could never vote for him. I swear, some people just grab on to any candidate and then some others follow them. But really, I don’t think anyone needs to worry about Ron Paul because he is as likely to get his party’s nomination as Dennis Kuicinich will get his party’s nomination. Ain’t going to happen. But I’m sure some people will keep chanting, “Ron Paul, Ron Paul, Ron Paul.” Geeeez.
Now I agree with you that Sheehan should replace Bush-Enabler Pelosi and I live in San Francisco. Pelosi ignores us and our wishes. Honestly, I don’t know WHY San Franciscans voted for this woman. I suspect it was name recognition and they wanted to see a woman become speaker. Well big fuking deal. She’s been a disaster and has done nothing for us. Has a strong spine for helping Dictator Bush though. I knew something was up when I saw this woman all smiles and snuggling up to Bush after she became speaker. Nauseating bitch. I voted for Krissy Keefer. Hopefully, San Franciscans will overwhelmingly reject Pelosi in 2008 when she’s up for re-election.