Abu Ghraib: The Rest of The Story

Canuckchuk,
Please allow me to make a comment about your use of the phrase "Great Satan". I do not quite recall who coined the phrase, but I'm pretty sure it was Ayatollah Khomeini. Every time I see that phrase in print in western media I try to contact the writer and explain that Great Satan is actually a mistranslation from its original in Farsi, which is "Sheytan-e-Bozorg", meaning Big Satan. Propaganda shills, as they are, the western media, in their mistranslation apparently wanted to attribute some sort of greatness to America.

However, the correct translation of the phrase in English is Big Satan; in the way that one would speak of the U.S. as being the big devil and of others like Israel, Egypt, etc being the little devils.

We should not forget that bigness is for size; greatness is for character. Khomeini was simply referring to size. Also, no scholar of the known religions would ever refer to Satan as being great, least of them Khomeini. Additionally, if Khomeini wanted to use the equivalent Farsi phrase for Great Satan he would have said "Sheytan-e-Kabir" and not "Sheytan-e-Bozorg", but he correctly said Sheytan-e-Bozorg, meaning Big Satan.

While I definitely don't support or condone any of this egregious behaviour conducted by the Bush administration some of you people really have to wake up. You're calling the US "the Great Satan" and talking about how Christian nations are excessively oppressive towards muslims.
I have news for you, the Middle East is made up almost entirely of dictators and monarchs who employ brutal methods of torture against any activists or potential political adversaries. Muslims torture other Muslims far more often than "the Christian nations do". Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, etc. - they all torture their own people as do many regimes throughout the world so this should not be taken as an exclusive American practice by any means. We just hear about it because better is expected of the US and better should be expected of the US.

These guys began defending torture shortly after the first wave of photos surfaced. They publicly denounced such activity, declared a few bad apples then began justifying the use of torture in their imaginary game of catch the terrorists just in case any real light was ever shed upon this attrocity. Justice is for the reality based people, in Bush's world justice is a thing wielded by an angry Gawd. I agree with Colleen, that if God is as vengeful as W seems to believe, they are in deep shit. But seriously, God plays such a large role in this primarily because of the easy ticket Christians have written for themselves. Siouxrose touched on it, forgiveness without remorse or restitution is their way of life. They never have to change their ways, nor be even reasonably sorry for their transgressions. They are divinely forgiven...If Jesus were here, he'd smite them all!

Every time I think about what horrors the people went through in Abu Ghraib, and are STILL going through, it makes me nauseous.

FIRST STEP - Congress must repeal the statutory immunity provisions that were expressly granted to the torturers, and those up the chain of command who authorized or failed to control the torture, in the Military Commissions Act passed right before the legislative recess preceding the 2006 elections.

There is absolutely no reason why the new Democratic leadership of the House and Senate hasn't done this already. They should pass the repeal tomorrow.

SECOND STEP - Convene a federal grand jury to consider indictment of Rumsfeld, Cambone, and General Miller for violation of the international anti-torture convention and the federal anti-torture felony statute. Use the ordinary prosecutorial tools of immunity grants and sentence bargaining to work the way up the chain of command and get at the truth.

THIRD STEP - Threaten Bush and Gonzales with impeachment for their roles in personally authorizing the torture in January - February, 2002, and later in 2003 when the torture "migrated" from Gitmo to Iraq. Let them resign (like Nixon), if they'll instead end the occupation of Iraq as a trade off and bring the troops home. Don't forget, the Constitution says the only punishment for committing an impeachable high crime or misdemeanor is loss of public office (not imprisonment).

I sincerely hope Siouxrose is right about the karma coming home to roost and smiting the White House evil doers. Personally, I plan to stay away from Taos, New Mexico, Washington DC, Kennebunkport, Maine and the whole state of Texas in order to avoid getting myself zapped as collateral damage whenever that day of reckoning comes.

My bigger worry is that the terrorists Little George's War has spawned will kill a lot of innocent Americans who are appalled by torture first, assisted by the intelligence agency black ops boys of some nation state that feels understandably threatened by the White House's saber rattling doctrine of preemptive war.

If tomorrow there's a mushroom clound over Detroit or Des Moines, will it be state sponsored terrorism made to look like the work of al Qaeda, or al Qaeda masquerading as the sneak attack of a rogue regime?

Bill from Saginaw

A war criminal is a war criminal is a war criminal.
And there appears to be no justice.
It's time for a real men to stand up and fight back.
Real Men fight fascism.

It was no mistake to LET photos be taken(then leak them to media) at the TWO prisons of abuse, and abuse to be delt.

The idea was to inflame the Muslim world even more and advance into other "hostile" (oil rich) countries.

After all, my God can kick you're Gods ass.

"Among the corrosive lies a nation at war tells itself is that the glory - the lofty goals announced beforehand, the victories, the liberation of the oppressed - belongs to the country as a whole; but the failure - the accidents, the unaccounted civilian dead, the crimes and the atrocities - is always exceptional."

In the days after a shocked world beheld the vacation pictures of depraved American soldiers enjoying their stay at Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad, where Saddam Hussein too enjoyed torturing innocent Iraqis, Phillip Kennicott of the Washington Post wrote these poignant words. Americans, though by and large horrified by these scenes, were resting their collective conscience assured by the President that these reprehensible acts were the handiwork of no more than "a few bad apples", and not representative of the overall U.S policy toward the treatment of prisoners.

Kennicott's was a lonely voice we didn't and still do not want to hear. Americans do not but must believe, as he said further, that "great national crimes begin with acts of misguided individuals; and no matter how many people are held directly accountable for these crimes, we are, collectively, responsible for what these individuals have done. We live in a democracy. Every errant smart bomb, every dead civilian, every sodomized prisoner, is ours."

Torture makes no moral or common sense. No matter how certain their guilt, torturing prisoners blurs the line between us and those we claim as our enemies. In torturing prisoners, we become what we are fighting against.

There are practical arguments as well against the use of torture: Torture does not produce reliable intelligence; torture of detainees held by the U.S. hands our enemies a dangerous excuse to torture our soldiers when they are captured; and torture's negative impact on America's reputation and security undermines the larger "war" against terrorism.

But that there would even be debate over torture begs the question of who we are, of what we have become. The rule of law both secular and heavenly makes plain that cruel and inhuman punishment is beneath the dignity of men and nations. Did our dignity collapse in the rubble of the twin towers?

Why would anyone want to defend torture ever? Torture is an unqualified evil that stains our souls. Torments inflicted on body and mind violate the intrinsic dignity and worth of the human being, and erode the character of the nation that tortures.

Moreover, how is it that those who profess to walk with God and speak his wishes condone or even authorize the harm of a human life believed made in his image? Jesus was tortured on the cross by the Roman Empire. How can any Christian support any kind of torture?

Torture is always wrong. Always. It is impermissible in all circumstances. Yes, this is moral absolutism. When it comes to torture, moral relativism leads us into the caves of our purported enemies, where we'll end up meeting ourselves.

Authorizing torture trusts government simply too much. As Mr. Kennicott reminded us, we live in a democracy, and every tortured prisoner is ours.

General Taguba's dad was a Philippine Scout--they didn't come any better. From Sy Hersh's article in the New Yorker:

His father, Tomas, was born in the Philippines and was drafted into the Philippine Scouts in early 1942, at the height of the Japanese attack on the joint American-Filipino force led by General Douglas MacArthur. Tomas was captured by the Japanese on the Bataan peninsula in April, 1942, and endured the Bataan Death March, which took thousands of American and Filipino lives. Tomas escaped and joined the underground resistance to the Japanese before returning to the American Army, in July, 1945.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/06/25/070625fa_fact_hersh?printa...

General Taguba's dad is smiling upon him, as we are.

Steven Cambone was Donald Rumsfelds right hand man who was demanding that people be tortured to get information which anybody with any sense would know does not work. he resigned as soon as Rumsfeld was fired.

I wish he would be included along with General Geoffrey Miller who transported the torture from Guantanamo to Iraq. he retired and nothing further has been said.

Then there are the contractors who worked closely with the "bad apples" and they have not been charged.

Yes, we should continue to complain to our elected officials that we want these people charged.

The article in the New Yorker about Taguba is a good one and could be used to remind people that we are not forgetting.

"Some "Christian" nation." -- Colleen

Christian nations have been doing worse things for centuries - the rack, the thumbscrews, the iron maiden, strappado, spanish boots etc etc etc. We have waterboarding now, and that's terrible, but what do you suppose "ducking" accused witches was all about? It wasn't about getting them a little wet.

The basic crime of the middle east is being muslim. Oh and having oil I suppose. And being kinda brown. But the moral authority to wage war on them is all about religion.

It is the sheer apathy of the American public that allows all of this mess to continue. Like the good German they go about their business not caring enough to do anything. Perhaps like the good German one day the bombs from the rest of the world will fall on their heads to put an end to this madness.

It's a shame that Colonel Karpinski lacked the senses of honor and responsibility that General Taguba exhibits. She was derelict in her duty in commanding Abu Ghraib but has consistently blamed others for her failures. A command position in the US Army is a position not only of privilege but of trust, honor and responsibility, but regarding Abu Graib the out-of-touch Karpinski had this to say in 2003: "The living conditions now are better in prison than at home," Karpinski says. "At one point we were concerned they wouldn't want to leave."
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/12/14/Worldandnation/Her_job__Lock_up_Iraq.s...

No denissail, it is not gutlessness of Bush and Cheney. It is the gutlessness and sheer greed of US Congress which refuses to take real action against those two. Congress members know that if they did tale serious action, such as impeachment, their real masters, the big business people who fund their election cfampaigns and for whom they really govern, would turn the gravy tap off and they would be out of Congress quicksmart.

This just another example of the gutless Bush/Cheney cable. Allowing the lowest of rank to take the blame for actions that they not only subscribe to, but continue to use as a matter of American policy.

Never underestimate the depth of evil these monsters will employ to exercise their power.

As ex-military myself, the story of Gen. Taguba really breaks my heart. If you Americans wanna demonstrate that quirky love you have for your military, you would do well to raise a stink on Taguba's behalf.

Maybe the Islamist are right..the USA IS the "Great Satan"..it sure as hell is acting like it.

Justice and reason have departed far from their respective stations, and whatever fig leafs of "judicial process" are placed over these prison camps further articulate policies of governance by photo op and/or propaganda; elections based on high theater down to smoke and mirrors, and every branch of government corrupted to serve the Masters of Corruption. However, where human justice fails, rest assured the lords of karma catch every iota of activity going on. How many reading this post can explain HOW the internet works? How it's possible that typing keys sends messages across vast distances and that we can FEEL another's emotions behind the words? Our entire universe is composed of filaments of consciousness, and every activity is "recorded" into what mystics term the Akashic Record. These disgusting slimes may THINK they can beat the HUMAN justice system, but whatsoever they have elected to do unto others, WILL come back to them. This is why all masters teach forgiveness since the chain of karma gets so intense and weighty that Spirit allotted one alchemical key to help clear the slate. Forgiveness rests upon "go and sin no more." It's not about continuing as thus with the expectation of a pardon. Therein lies the cosmic rub.

Joseph L Galloway has been out front on this issue and a number of other issues that the usual suspects in the corporate media either distort or ignore altogether. Yet even he seems to be afraid to call torture what it is, and instead substitutes the Orwellian euphemism "extreme interrogation techniques." Language matters. Very much.

Some "Christian" nation.

God Bless America

:(

If there is the type of God the right seems to favor, one that is vengeful, America is in trouble.

People who support torture like to frame the argument around the torture of terrorists.

SOME OF THE PEOPLE TORTURED WERE INNOCENT AND THEY DIED.

Where is justice.