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What Accountability, Mr. President?
Obama on Civilian Deaths in Afghanistan: 'I am Accountable'
During his White House press conference Wednesday with Afghan President Hamid Karzai, President Obama addressed the issue of civilian deaths caused by US operations in Afghanistan. "I take no pleasure in hearing a report that a civilian has been killed," said Obama. "That's not why I ran for president, that's not why I'm Commander in Chief."
"Let me be very clear about what I told President Karazi: When there is a civilian casualty, that is not just a political problem for me. I am ultimately accountable, just as Gen. McChrystal is accountable, for somebody who is not on the battlefield who got killed," said Obama.
That statement is quite remarkable for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that it is not true. How are President Obama or Gen. McChrystal accountable? Afghans have little, if any, recourse for civilian deaths. They cannot press their case in international courts because the US doesn't recognize an International Criminal Court with jurisdiction over US forces, Afghan courts have not and will not be given jurisdiction and Attorney General Eric Holder has made clear that the Justice Department will not permit cases against US military officials brought by foreign victims to proceed in US courts to go forward. So, what does it mean to be accountable for civilian deaths? Public apology? Press conferences? A handful of courts martial?
Obama praised US forces for their restraint in Afghanistan, saying, "Because of Gen McChrystal's direction, often times they're holding fire, they're hesitating, they're being cautious about how they operate even though it would be safer for them to go ahead and take these locations out."
But how does that square with recent, heinous instances of civilian killings in Afghanistan? In February, for example, US special forces shot and killed five people, including three women who collectively had 16 children. The US military tried to cover it up and blame it on the Taliban, saying coalition forces "found the bodies of three women who had been tied up, gagged and killed." The New York Times reported that military officials had "suggested that the women had all been stabbed to death or had died by other means before the raid, implying that their own relatives may have killed them."
Later, General McChrystal's command admitted US-led forces had done the killing, saying it was an accident. This was hard to square with reports that soldiers may have dug bullets out of the dead bodies to try to cover it up. The head of the Joint Special Operations Command, Vice Admiral William McRaven, eventually apologized to the family of the dead Afghans and offered them two sheep as a condolence gift. Was this accountability?
Or, what about the incident last May when US warplanes bombed civilian houses in Farah province killing more than 100 people? The dead, according to the Red Cross, included an "Afghan Red Crescent volunteer and 13 members of his family who had been sheltering from fighting in a house that was bombed" in the air strike. US Military sources floated the story to NBC and other outlets that Taliban fighters used grenades to kill three families to "stage" a massacre and then blame it on the US.
"War is tough and difficult and mistakes are gonna be made," President Obama said today. Part of the problem, though, is that when "mistakes" happen and civilians are killed, attempts are made to cover them up or to blame them on the Taliban.
- Posted in
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Show All"War is tough and difficult and mistakes are gonna be made."
Excuse me, Mr. President, this is an illegal invasion and occupation, not a war, just as in Iraq. You, and every one of your Empire cronies can call it a war but it isn't one. Those that are fighting against the forces of Empire are doing so in their own backyards, on their own soil within their own cities and towns. They watch as their families are routed out of their homes at all hours, killed by flying "predators" (an apt name for them), or crippled for life.
Those at the receiving end of US brutality are experiencing terrorism.
This is a very good point, Q, and it applies to everything Obomber says on this subject.
For example: "I am ultimately accountable, just as Gen. McChrystal is accountable, for somebody who is not on the battlefield who got killed."
Just as there is no war, there is no "battlefield" in urban guerilla tactics, when people are trying to fight off an illegal invader. Thus not one single person killed by the "coalition" in Afghanistan has been killed on a proper battlefield, in the true sense of the term. "Counterinsurgency," which is the kind of "war" the US is fighting in both Iraq and Afghanistan, is pure and simple repression by violence, all the more heinous when the people doing the repressing have no right to be there in the first place, no authority, moral, historical or otherwise, to dictate anything whatsoever to the people they have invaded.
Everything about the way Obomber and the American political and media class see this "war" is wrong: motives, "causes," goals, tactics, ideology, ethics, and so on.
The karmic boomerang, when it comes, is going to be a big one.
Sioux Rose
CLOVIS: Karmic boomerang... I wonder where I've heard THAT before. (LOL)
Things are going to get very intense this summer... early August holds the markings of a critical climax. Given that there have been 4-5 major quakes this year, plus the Icelandic volcano, plus the Gulf travesty... that the wars continue "on course," and the banks continue to prop up a faux economy, with more and more people homeless, jobless, and angry... the usual Al Jolson tap dance and expensive PR isn't gonna put this genii back into the bottle.
Mother nature, a/k/a Demeter, is a force that will put the military's perception of might in its place. While the Arab world prays for deliverance more than any of us can imagine, a lot of us know in our hearts and souls that this monster of empire MUST be stopped. It IS a threat to us all. The evidence is in plain sight on numerous fronts. In fact, it is so compelling and overwhelming that it's a wonder in the face of it so many of us still remain sane, balanced, and clear in our thinking. This forum helps in that regard.
What passes for our government is now utterly without legitimacy. It has carved up the documents of the land, essentially turned law into a toilet, robbed the public blind, and has not devised a war it didn't love. Evil is evil, whatever flag it wraps itself around. And our universe, as the highly evolved Dr. King related, arcs towards justice. The promised land is never held for long, however, our citizens have certainly enjoyed a better balance between justice and human rights before the dark side catered to the bloodlust of the elites and used "deregulation" as the ruse to defuse all checks and balances on greed and naked aggression.
Interesting that the film "Clash of the Titans" made a come-back this year, for in a sense, its mundane equivalent is about to become "the featured" entertainment.
Rosie's unproven fantasies continued ...
Sioux Rose
Q: You jumped my gun. I was going to make a similar point.
Excellent posts: Erroll, Ephraim, Mcoyote, Jareilly.
The incomprehensible thing is... that life seems so ordinary the day before it radically changes. (And in fact may be destined to alter.) And so we may make predictions about the election in 2012, or that Obama will become just another high paid X-president on a tour, but that presumes the United War States will continue to get away with the business of war as usual, regardless of the abominable costs and consequences to others. Note the parallels with our equally bankrupt bank cum Wall st basis for international commerce. There, too, it is others' money being betted by the sharks who walk away with all the blood profits.
There is a rhythm to time, specific cycles inset, and I believe I can say with certitude, the typical dealings of America are about to be check-mated by forces I would define as the agencies of karma. To what extent these take shape on the mundane plane through international legal authorities stepping in to curtail abusive treaties, the continuation of wars of aggression, great threats to the global ecosystem and their equivalent in the currency pond... I cannot say. Those in my field see this ONE coming. And I think on intuitive levels, many in this forum realize that our entire economy is being held up by hype, smoke and mirrors; that the devastation wrought from the plunging wound into the bleeding Gulf is not something that can be easily dismissed, its ramifications those that will impact not just economies but living systems in grotesque and deadly ways, that a nation run amok like a criminal on the loose WILL be stopped. The next few years bring the climax. I think it will take all the inner strength and moral fortitude each of us has to stand by, help others, and do what we can to see GENUINE justice wrought.
I am also spiritually-driven...and agree with your premise whole-heartedly. We are at a precipice..in a quantum moment.
So important is this time of shifting realities. Realities we are transmuting. Not transforming. Transmuting.
Transmute: "...to change from one form, substance, nature, or state to another."
We are changing the very CORE energy here...into something completely different. No dancing around the edges. No trying to re-form. Or even trans-form.
"Those in my field see this ONE coming."
Yes. It is all around us.
Here's a reminder of Obama's actual views on war and imperial ambitions. The excerpt below is an abridged bit from Paul Street written before the election of our Nobel Peace Prize war criminal:
"I believe that U.S. forces are still a part of the solution in Iraq.”
- Barack Obama
Obama’s handlers and supporters placed considerable emphasis on the claim that Obama voiced a “consistent position against the Iraq war” Serious scrutiny of his “antiwar position” shows that the supposedly “pragmatic” and “non-ideological” Obama speaks in deferential accord with the doctrine of empire. In Obama’s carefully crafted rhetoric, Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL) has been a “strategic blunder” on the part of an essentially benevolent nation state. Given Obama's presidential ambitions, it is unthinkable for him to acknowledge the invasion’s status as a great international transgression that is consistent with the United States’ long record of imperial criminality. It is equally unimaginable for him to acknowledge that the war expressed Washington’s drive to deepen its control of strategic petroleum resources—an ambition in direct opposition to the alleged U.S. goals of encouraging Iraqi freedom and exporting democracy.
Consistent with his denial and embrace of Washington’s imperial ambitions, Obama refused to join genuinely anti-war forces in calling for a rapid and thorough withdrawal of troops and an end to the occupation of Iraq.
At one point in Obama's famous CCGA oration, he had the audacity to say the following in support of his claim that U.S. citizens support “victory” in Iraq: “The American people have been extraordinarily resolved. They have seen their sons and daughters killed or wounded in the streets of Fallujah.”
This was a spine-chilling selection of locales. Fallujah was the site for a colossal U.S. war atrocity. Crimes included the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians, the targeting of ambulances and hospitals, and the practical leveling of an entire city—in April and November 2004. The town was designated for destruction as an example of the awesome state terror promised to those who dared to resist U.S. power. Not surprisingly, Fallujah is a leading symbol of U.S. imperialism in the Arab and Muslim worlds. It is a deeply provocative and insulting place for Obama to choose to highlight American sacrifice and “resolve” in the occupation of Iraq.
It gets worse. Obama has repeatedly voted to spend billions on the illegal invasion since his arrival in the U.S. Senate.
Obama repeatedly and absurdly claimed that the illegal invasion was launched with the “best of democratic intentions.”
He praises U.S. military personnel for their “unquestioning” “service” in Iraq and (despite numerous U.S. atrocities there) for “doing everything we could ever ask of them.”
His belated calls for withdrawal are hedged by numerous statements indicating that an Obama White House would maintain a significant military presence in and around Iraq for an indefinite period of time. And Obama has refused to support taking a reckless (possibly even nuclear) U.S. military assault on Iran off the table of acceptable U.S. foreign policy options.
Barack Obama reacts to the world's response to imperialism in precisely the same way as his counterparts; he proposes more war. Obama wants to add almost one-hundred thousand new troops to the U.S. military, to alleviate the shortage of manpower that Iraq attrition has wrought. In his speech to the Woodrow Wilson Center, Obama gave away their destination: Waziristan. Obama wants a more aggressive approach to the so-called "war on terror," to take "the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan."
So what we have in Barack Obama is an alternative War Party, planning an alternative War. He has told us so, and we should believe him. He is no peace candidate, and goes out of his way to prove it.
===========
"War is tough and difficult and mistakes are gonna be made"
- Barack Obama
Obama is now channeling John Wayne.
Yes indeed. A very good recap of Obama's moral tar baby. We just need to keep saying it over and over again, don't we?. It ain't a war, it's a crime. The president speaks worms.
Blah, blah, blah. Americans and NATO forces do as they see fit. There is no accountability, just words, and oh here is a couple sheep. All better now, right. Wrong!!! Remember we are from the government and we are here to help you. What a joke! Either tell the American public the truth as to your real intentions or get the F#%K OUT!!! You lie to us, you lie to them. There is no honor any more. Look at the suicide rate among active service members. Get some integrity for God's sake!
Jeremy Scahill raises an extremely important point which should be addressed by the mainstream media. If a murder happens in any town or city in the United States the police attempt to apprehend the criminal while the district attorney presses charges against the defendant in order to hold him or her accountable for the crime that has been committed. Since there is no war crimes tribunal that has been set up which will prosecute war criminals Obama cannot claim with a straight face that he and General McChrystal are "ultimately accountable." Obama's statement is an outright lie and yet the corporate media will in all likelihood allow Obama's statement to pass by unchallenged.
Obama is "accountable" for all the civilian deaths (and we'll never have an accurate body count) in the same way Bush and Cheney are accountable for the wholesale destruction of Iraq and murder of over a million Iraqis, and in the way BP and Halliburton are accountable for their joint destruction of the Gulf and all its marine and wildlife, not to mention what their incompetence will do to shorelines and local economies. Yes, they're all accountable, and answerable to no one.
None of them will pay any price for their monstrous crimes against humanity and the earth. Obama will go on to joke about sending Predator Drones against anyone defying his authority, even while he actually sends them to kill more civilians, for which he's "accountable." And his Republican successor in the White House will protect him against cries for justice, exactly as he has protected Bush and Cheney and Rummy. The Liars and Killers Club will gain more members, and we'll be left to study what they do, as Rove told Ron Suskind in 2004. Powerless civilians in a military dictatorship don't have many other choices.
I belive Hitler would have said the same thing about his invasions. And Stalin's justification for the Ukranian Genocide was they were "wreckers," "saboteurs," which are terms synonymous with Terrorist and Terrorism today.
So the USA and NATO are NO DIFFERENT in their criminality than two of the 20th century's most noted War Criminals. And that's a truth few US citizens can swallow; so, like the "Good Germans," they cast their eyes elsewhere in order to not see the great evil being done in their names.
I'm still not sure we're not witnessing continuation of those efforts...
don't know that it matters much, if the result is the same...
interesting, though, that we view so many things in history as 'complete', when history, like life, goes on...
oh, yeah, life goes on long after the thrill of livin' is gone...Mellencamp
"I'm still not sure we're not witnessing continuation of those efforts..."
Are you referring to Hitler's attempt to control/conquer the Middle East, or Stalin's use of what would be called terrorism today to liquidate a whole class of people--the Kulaks--because they impeded his drive to Collectivise agricultural production? I see US efforts being Hitlerian, although Goldman Sach's attempt to pauperize and make debt peons of millions is certainly Stalinist.
I am referring to Hitler, his notions of master race and domination...to be clear, I am not a Hitler scholar...
I have always been suspicious of the connection between US business and the Nazis, especially Prescott Bush, given the rise of the Bush family to prominence in this country...
really, I was just expounding on the idea that we 'close' history, but that history never really closes...alliances, and causes, can outlive individuals...Nazi Germany is only a generation removed...
I wonder, sometimes, whether we face a new evil, or an older evil still alive...
the Jew thing still throws me...Prescott Bush aids Hitler, who kills millions of Jews...
then, years later, the ensuing generations, the Presidents Bush, can't do enough for Israel...
I admit to utter confusion in this regard...is it all just business to the Bushes?
How do the Jews feel about this apparent conflict of interest?
I'm rambling...if only the world made sense...perhaps I would...
Sioux Rose
DUBET: If you were of a Nazi disposition wanting to make a go of empire again, apart from changing your "field costume," what better camouflage would there be than making some powerful Jewish leaders your colleagues? Both want empire and either would throw the other under the bus if circumstances warranted it. I mean honor among thieves and murderers only goes so far.
Great analogy, Sioux Rose. Indeed, Obama is the best thing that ever happened to the plutocrats.
I just finished a temporary assignment here in NYC with a group of about 50, all backgrounds, all ages, and most of whom would be called 'liberal democrats.' We were all unemployed and in essentially in the same boat. Only problem was, while some were disappointed with O, especially about the lack of jobs, mostly they defended him against the rabid right.
And to your point, the whites, even the more politically savvy, were absolutely terrified of holding O accountable for anything, lest they be called racist. [I never held back and was in fact told that one of my black colleagues called me racist for my criticism of O; I was devastated on a personal level but refused to be intimidated.]
The propagandists have earned every penny for their brilliant work, which included simultaneously putting into office a personality almost beyond criticism while creating an 'alternative' that was overtly fascist. Then they ensured the MSM sealed the deal by reporting/discussing only two options: the wildly corrupt, but beleagered, democrats and the so-insane-most-people-would-do-anything-to-keep-them-out-of-office republicans.
What did Goebbels say, 'It works the same in every country'?
Sioux Rose
DIANA: Thanks for your response. It's the political equivalent of an LSD trip to witness intelligent people giving the nod to policies undertaken by Obama, that we all knew were diabolically wrong under Bush. I'd love to see someone on Broadway turn THAT into slapstick! And speaking of the latter, my analogy is the merger of Mel Brooks with Goebbels. Too bad it's true!
These are INSANE times! One by one we will have to devise the ways to fly over The Cuckoo's Nest.
JILL: I like the way you think, analyze, and express yourself.
hey, sioux rose!
are we saying that Jewish leaders might willingly assist in the murder of Jews? as horrid as that sounds, I have witnessed what I consider to be equally horrific atrocities right here at home...
forgive me if I misunderstood...
"the Jew thing still throws me...Prescott Bush aids Hitler, who kills millions of Jews...
"then, years later, the ensuing generations, the Presidents Bush, can't do enough for Israel..."
The name of the game changed after WW2 with the Cold War. Then came the rise of Arab nationalism and Pan-Arabism at about the same time M. King Hubbert predicted the peaking of US oil production in the 1969-1972 range, thus making Middle East oil The Prize. US backing of Israel in the 1967 War seals the deal. The oil wasn't so much for the USA's use as it was for its NATO, SEATO, and CENTO allies during the Cold War. Then the USA's oil production peaked in 1970 and the twin oil embargoes during the 1970s resulted in the Carter Doctrine. GHW Bush was present at the creation of this whole train of events and helped orchestrate some. Imperial struggle is still the name of the game. The actors and dynamics have changed somewhat, but the overall nature is much like the Cold War. The Carter Doctrine drives US Imperial Policy now more than ever. I hope that makes sense.
thank you...i was feeling a bit ignorant last evening after posting this, so I did a bit of poking around...
a couple of sites were promoting the idea that the major world wars have really been efforts by the finance and oil barons (rockefeller, etc.) to secure the planet's oil supplies...oil in the iberian peninsula, russia and the motherlode middle east...
given what I've personally witnessed in my own lifetime regarding wars and motivations, that sounds believable...and appears to be ongoing...
The goals of Germany for both World Wars are easily determined by reading two books: Fischer's "Germany's Aims in the First World War," and Hitler's "Mein Kampf." Unsurprisingly, the aims of both were quite similar, and both framed the rightness of their aims in racial terms--The Kaiser against the Slavs and Hitler against the Jews, many of whom were Slavs. The US goal to dominate the access to vital resources is illustrated in various National Security planning documents from 1947-49 and can be found in the Foreign Relations of the United States (FRUS) series published by the State Department, some of which you may have read in Chomsky, Zinn, or Parenti, to name just a few. Robinson in "Promoting Polyarchy" uses them as well. Power Projection instead of "traditional" Colonialism is the USA's preferred method, which Chomsky has detailed many times. Try his "Year 501: The Conquest Continues." To get an idea about the direction post-WW2 US policy would take, Kolko's "Politics of War" is very illuminating. That can be followed by Parenti's "Anti-Communist Crusade." Admittedly, that's a heavy reading list, about 4,500 pages; but you will find answers there that you won't find elsewhere.
In his recent book, The Crimes of Empire: Rogue Superpower and World Domination, Carl Boggs contends that the U.S. has killed, directly or by proxy wars and other operations, about eight million people, mostly civilians, since 1945. As Noam Chomsky has said, "If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged."
But no one will ever hold the world's most powerful militarist bully accountable for its innumerable war crimes and crimes against humanity. That is one reason the U.S. continues to waste a trillion dollars per year on its military, including thousands of nuclear weapons. Until the U.S. Empire finally collapses, U.S. war criminals will be free to demand, and get, tens of thousands of dollars in obscene speaking fees. When he leaves office, Obama will certainly join this despicable group.
ED
Many thanks for your reference of The Crimes of Empire which I have just ordered along with another book with the same theme entitled War and Empire: The American Way of Life by Paul Atwood. I have The Hollywood War Machine: U.S. Militarism and Popular Culture by Carl Boggs and Tom Pollard which I found to be a damning indictment of how Hollywood has, over the years, continued to make film after film which glorifies, with very few exceptions, the U.S. war machine.
Erroll: you're very welcome. I just ordered The Hollywood War Machine: U.S. Militarism and Popular Culture, so thanks for your recommendation. I will look into War and Empire: The American Way of Life by Paul Atwood.
I just got Dying Empire: U.S. imperialism and global resistance by Francis Shor and it looks good.
This is a true story.
With the WW2 defeat of Germany, Berlin was divided into sectors. In the British sector there was a decision to try Germans for War Crimes. In their sector was the chemical plant which manufactured Zyklon B for the gas chambers. Three scape goats were chosen: an echelon level executive, an operations-level manger, and an employee on the loading dock. No kidding.
The lad was approximately 20 and had two clubbed feet. He loaded small boxes of potassium cyanide onto trucks. That was his war crime. He spent two or three years in prison, which sent a clear message to all other young men with two clubbed feet, in the future, to refuse and disobey orders to load trucks with Zyklon B. How effective that firm message was to his cohort is unknown to history.
Trylon
Amen Onecaptainjim. The fact that Obama can sleep even one night illuminates just how much of a sociopath he is.
This bastard misled virtually an entire nation's populace, a populace that elected him entirely because they were fed up to the gills with the cronyism and backrooom deals, constant lies, murder, theft of their tax dollars to be given then given to unscrupulous corporations and banks, loss of civil liberties, and general disregard for the rule of law in general, only to be given more of the same but in spades. A political leader can't get much lower than ordering the murder of innocents a half world away while at the same time taking the hard earned money of his people and giving it away to those who already have more than they could gorge themselves with in ten lifetimes while those who created the money in the first place starve in the streets and die from preventable illness.
The only hope I have at this time comes from the knowledge that the track this nation is on cannot be substained much longer. Collapse is inevidable. When that collapse does finally come, it's reassuring to remember that both Bu$h and Obama are relatively young, and may yet be forced to face the consequences of their actions, though it is difficult to imagine what those consequences could be in order to satisfy justice in the true sense.
Seymour Hersh has reported that "battlefield executions" are now taking place, http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25424.htm
The same sort of thing happened in Vietnam and Korea. The war crimes just keep on going and going and going ....
As a soldier, if you know you're going to be killed if you're captured or surrender, then you will not allow either to occur. You will fight to the death with no quarter given. And you are quite likely to do the same to anyone you capture.
Unreported here on CD is that the whole Times-Square bomber manufactures hysteria is unravelling. It looks like he never went to any "training camp", his cartoon bomb could never have been the work of "Al Quieda" or "Taliban" (used interchangably), and he had no "connections" with said groups.
OK Mr. President, your responsible. Now do the honorable thing and resign! Or are these just more hollow words being spoken by an American politician? Show the American people a little of that change they can believe in, turn in your secret decoder ring and your blackberry and go back to Illinois. Prove to the Afghani's and the American people that you are a man of your word!...Right,...I didn't think so!
Z1
Excellent suggestion which begs the question why the corporate media and the ubiquitous talking heads are not demanding that Obama do the honorable thing by resigning from his position forthwith. In current Japan and in perhaps other countries the leader of that particular country would have stepped down from his position. I believe, if I am not mistaken, that in old time Japan, their leaders took the extreme measure of killing themselves because of the disgrace that they brought to their country. Unfortunately, in today's society in the United States, honor and doing the right thing seem to belong to a bygone era.
The POTUS is only Commander in Chief when the military is in "actual service".
This requires a declaration of war from Congress.
What Accountability, Mr. President?
-------------
Accountability in D.C. speak means a tightly written public relations campaign stating the exact opposite of your intentions disseminated aggressively utilizing all your assets at the major media.
You didn't think he actually meant holding anyone responsible?
C'mon Scahill, you know that Obama is a liar. No news here.
Now, now, now, folks - you have to remember what "accountability" means in DC. It just means saying "I am accountable. There, I said it, now let's move on." The only venue we currently have for holding our pols "accountable" is the voting booth.
Janet Reno, attorney general under Clinton, said that she was to be held accountable for the debacle at Waco. This was good to know. Is she out of prison yet or is she still serving her sentence?
New elements to "1984" get added all the time by the various US presidential administrations. As War is Peace, to be Accountable is to be Immune from Prosecution or from any other type of penalty.
Maybe he means he will be accountable to his maker---he's Christian, right?
Section 2, Article 2 of the Constitution for the United States of America begins, "The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States". This does not say, and does not mean, that "The POTUS is only Commander in Chief when the military is in 'actual service'". The President is always "Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy [and now of the Marine Corps, Air Force and Coast Guard -- i.e., all federal armed services]of the United States"; he becomes Commander in Chief of the "Militia of the several states" when and only when those militia are "called into the actual Service of the United States" -- i.e., when the state militias become armed forces "of the United States".
your interpretation calls for the dependent clause at the end to modify only the phrase regarding the militia. If the dependent clause modifies the whole sentence, which it could vis the syntactic and semantic rules of English, then the Pres is only Commander in Chief when war is declared. Add to this the fact there is no militia and in fact never has been one, except as a term of art in the Constitution. And add to this the confusion caused by changes in English usage and meaning since the Constitution was written.
That's why we will never stop arguing about the 2nd Amendment; the only guys who know what it means have been dead for 200 years.
"If the dependent clause modifies the whole sentence, which it could vis the syntactic and semantic rules of English, then the Pres is only Commander in Chief when war is declared."
I am so glad someone else can still read.
The clause does modify the entire sentence.
If the clause modifies only the Militia phrase, why the second comma?
Our reading is accurate.
Of course Kagan would not see it this way.
Law defeated by precedent and expediency.
We preach winning hearts and minds but we practice indiscriminate killing and torture. It really doesn't matter who is president, the killings go on. Get out Americans, and save your souls.
(BTW have you told your congressmen not to vote for more war money to Iraq and Afghanistan? They're about to. Something like 60 billion more, borrowed and added to our debt.) Not that any of this does much good--our politicians are in lock-step when it comes to defeating the one billion Muslims. At this rate it will be the Buddhists who will win the race--the Christians and the Muslims will kill each off.
I've had this argument with people who consider themselves versed in ethics. Many view "collateral damage" as equivalent to direct outright execution or deliberate bombing of civilian areas. There is plenty of history available for purposes of example.
I agree that there are subtle, somewhat academic ethical nuances at work here. Are drone attacks worse than the Blitz or the British and US air campaigns against civilian targets? Or the US air campaign in SE Asia? 100,000s of civilians were killed in the fire bombings of Hamburg, Dresden and Tokyo, and the US killed equally high numbers of civilians in Vietnam air raids, all intentionally and with varying degress of openly stated intention. The Italians, Germans and Japanese did the same by similar or more direct means, again with varying degrees of stated intention. What I doubt very much is whether the civilians on the receiving end cared or care very much about the ethical distinctions derived from statements of intention.
Two problems the "collateral damage" formulation:
1. Obama and those launching the drone attacks know with 100% certainty that civilians will be killed. This undeniable fact obviates the "mistakes" argument.
2. It implies a distinction between the killing of civilians in drone attacks and the more general category of mass murder. This is a difference in degree but not in kind.
Americans appear to have great difficulty parsing these distinctions, which is a great reason not to try to assert them.
This leaves out the very pertinent question of whether killing uniformed, armed "enemy" soldiers is also murder. Some famous general whose name I forget, got it right, I think, when he said, "war is organized murder".
In summary, the whole thing is an ethical wasteland. Only self-defense justifies military action and even then it debases and dehumanizes us. It costs us something we will never get back. Real "leaders" would publicly acknowledge this. Instead, we glorify war. We promote it as a righteous duty and source of spiritual, personal and national purification. Official violence is always in service of lofty, if conveniently vague ideas. Violence makes us "free". Thus "freedom" is not a right at all, it's a limited privilege, contingent upon constant war. This directly contradicts the literal meaning of the Declaration of Independence's language on "inalienable rights". In America, you have no "rights"; you have a temporary respite from slavery bought by war, never mind who you are fighting. It's pernicious myth and this kind of ethical excuse-making perpetuates it.
I seem to remember that Japan and Germany declared war on us and that the deliberate terror bombing of cities was begun by the Germans in the Spanish Civil War.
Perhaps it is important to put this article and Obama's statements about civilian deaths in perspective:
He is planning a major invasion of Kandahar, Afghanistan's second largest city, with around a million people.
That's a lot of sheep...
-30-
The sheep come later - as compensation for lost loved ones.
The US will never get out of Afghanistan or Iraq. We're going to be killing civilians in those two countries forever.
Perhaps so. However, there is a fundamental difference between the case of Iraq and of Afghanistan. With Iraq our country has a SOFA agreement which demands that all US military personnel has left Iraq on December 31, 2011. There is no such binding agreement with Afghanistan, only totally meaningless bromides from Obama and Karzai about leaving sometime in the nebulous future.
It has been predicted that "we" will not be out of Iraq on the specified date. Perhaps so but the consequences will be dire. For openers, we automatically will be at war with the state of Iraq as far as the Iraqi's are concerned. We will no longer be an occupying force but an invader. The repercussions against us in the Arabic world will be huge. Even in the generally impotent United Nations there will be consequences. After all, the signing of SOFA Iraq was forced upon President Bush by the U.N. declaration that it no longer accepted the pre-December 31, 2008 status after that date.
You might be right that President Obama will unilaterally keep troops in Iraq after the SOFA deadline. Then you, and me, and every American citizen is at war with Iraq. It is that serious a matter.
Obama never said all troops would be out by the deadline. He said "all combat troops" would be out by the deadline and now they are hedging on that. That means, under the SOFA 60 to 80000 US troops would remain in Iraq indefinitely, along with a large unspecified number of mercenaries under no-bid, cost-plus contracts for unspecified purposes ad infinitum. Your point is legally correct; the SOFA has a real legal meaning. Unfortunately the only thing likely to change post-SOFA is the diplomatic game of 3 card monte played by all the participants and their figureheads. The killing on the streets of Baghdad is likely to continue uninterrupted.
Laws, like taxes, are for the "little people". At Obama's lofty heights, the law is whatever the fuck they say it is today, even if it contradicts what they said yesterday and what they'll say tomorrow. They haven't an honest bone among them.
While Obama didn't start our wars on Afghanistan and Iraq, he now owns them, and the ball is now in HIS court!