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Are Presidents Afraid of the CIA?
In the past I have alluded to Panetta and the Seven Dwarfs. The reference is to CIA Director Leon Panetta and seven of his moral-dwarf predecessors-the ones who sent President Barack Obama a letter on Sept. 18 asking him to "reverse Attorney General Holder's August 24 decision to re-open the criminal investigation of CIA interrogations."
Panetta reportedly was also dead set against reopening the investigation-as he was against release of the Justice Department's "torture memoranda" of 2002, as he has been against releasing pretty much anything at all-the President's pledges of a new era of openness, notwithstanding. Panetta is even older than I, and I am aware that hearing is among the first faculties to fail. Perhaps he heard "error" when the President said "era."
As for the benighted seven, they are more to be pitied than scorned. No longer able to avail themselves of the services of clever Agency lawyers and wordsmiths, they put their names to a letter that reeked of self-interest-not to mention the inappropriateness of asking a President to interfere with an investigation already ordered by the Attorney General.
Three of the seven-George Tenet, Porter Goss, and Michael Hayden-were themselves involved, in one way or another, in planning, conducting, or covering up all manner of illegal actions, including torture, assassination, and illegal eavesdropping. In this light, the most transparent part of the letter may be the sentence in which they worry: "There is no reason to expect that the re-opened criminal investigation will remain narrowly focused."
When asked about the letter on the Sunday TV talk shows on Sept. 20, Obama was careful always to respond first by expressing obligatory "respect" for the CIA and its directors. With Bob Schieffer on Face the Nation, though, Obama did allow himself a condescending quip. He commented, "I appreciate the former CIA directors wanting to look out for an institution that they helped to build."
That quip was, sadly, the exception to the rule. While Obama keeps repeating the mantra that "nobody is above the law," there is no real sign that he intends to face down Panetta and the Seven Dwarfs-no sign that anyone has breathed new life into federal prosecutor John Durham, to whom Holder gave the mandate for further "preliminary investigation." What is generally forgotten is that it was former Attorney General Michael Mukasey who picked Durham two years ago to investigate CIA's destruction of 91 tapes of the interrogation of "high-value detainees."
Durham had scarcely been heard from when Holder added to Durham's job-jar the task of conducting a preliminary investigation regarding the CIA torture specialists. These are the ones whose zeal led them to go beyond the already highly permissive Department of Justice guidelines for "harsh interrogation."
Durham, clearly, is proceeding with all deliberate speed (emphasis on "deliberate"). Someone has even suggested-I trust, in jest-that he has been diverted to the search for the money and other assets that Bernie Maddow stashed away.
In any case, do not hold your breath for findings from Durham anytime soon. Holder appears in no hurry. And President Obama keeps giving off signals that he is afraid of getting crosswise with the CIA-that's right, afraid.
Not Just Paranoia
In that fear, President Obama stands in the tradition of a dozen American presidents. Harry Truman and John Kennedy were the only ones to take on the CIA directly. Worst of all, evidence continues to build that the CIA was responsible, at least in part, for the assassination of President Kennedy. Evidence new to me came in response to things I included in my article of Dec. 22, "Break the CIA in Two."
What follows can be considered a sequel that is based on the kind of documentary evidence after which intelligence analysts positively lust.
Unfortunately for the CIA operatives who were involved in the past activities outlined below, the temptation to ask Panetta to put a SECRET stamp on the documentary evidence will not work. Nothing short of torching the Truman Library might conceivably help. But even that would be a largely feckless "covert action," copy machines having long since done their thing.
In my article of Dec. 22, I referred to Harry Truman's op-ed of exactly 46 years before, titled "Limit CIA Role to Intelligence," in which the former President expressed dismay at what the Central Intelligence Agency had become just 16 years after he and Congress created it.
The Washington Post published the op-ed on December 22, 1963 in its early edition, but immediately excised it from later editions. Other media ignored it. The long hand of the CIA?
Truman wrote that he was "disturbed by the way CIA has been diverted from its original assignment" to keep the President promptly and fully informed and had become "an operational and at times policy-making arm of the government."
The Truman Papers
Documents in the Truman Library show that nine days after Kennedy was assassinated, Truman sketched out in handwritten notes what he wanted to say in the op-ed. He noted, among other things, that the CIA had worked as he intended only "when I had control."
In Truman's view, misuse of the CIA began in February 1953, when his successor, Dwight Eisenhower, named Allen Dulles CIA Director. Dulles' forte was overthrowing governments (in current parlance, "regime change"), and he was quite good at it. With coups in Iran (1953) and Guatemala (1954) under his belt, Dulles was riding high in the late Fifties and moved Cuba to the top of his to-do list.
Accustomed to the carte blanche given him by Eisenhower, Dulles was offended when young President Kennedy came on the scene and had the temerity to ask questions about the Bay of Pigs adventure, which had been set in motion under Eisenhower. When Kennedy made it clear he would NOT approve the use of U.S. combat forces, Dulles reacted with disdain and set out to mousetrap the new President.
Coffee-stained notes handwritten by Allen Dulles were discovered after his death and reported by historian Lucien S. Vandenbroucke. They show how Dulles drew Kennedy into a plan that was virtually certain to require the use of U.S. combat forces. In his notes Dulles explains that, "when the chips were down," the new President would be forced by "the realities of the situation" to give whatever military support was necessary "rather than permit the enterprise to fail."
Additional detail came from a March 2001 conference on the Bay of Pigs, which included CIA operatives, retired military commanders, scholars, and journalists. Daniel Schorr told National Public Radio that he had gained one new perception as a result of the "many hours of talk and heaps of declassified secret documents:"
"It was that the CIA overlords of the invasion, Director Allen Dulles and Deputy Richard Bissell had their own plan on how to bring the United States into the conflict...What they expected was that the invaders would establish a beachhead...and appeal for aid from the United States...
"The assumption was that President Kennedy, who had emphatically banned direct American involvement, would be forced by public opinion to come to the aid of the returning patriots. American forces, probably Marines, would come in to expand the beachhead.
"In fact, President Kennedy was the target of a CIA covert operation that collapsed when the invasion collapsed," added Schorr.
The "enterprise" which Dulles said could not fail was, of course, the overthrow of Fidel Castro. After mounting several failed operations to assassinate him, this time Dulles meant to get his man, with little or no attention to what the Russians might do in reaction. Kennedy stuck to his guns, so to speak; fired Dulles and his co-conspirators a few months after the abortive invasion in April 1961; and told a friend that he wanted to "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds."
The outrage was mutual, and when Kennedy himself was assassinated on November 22, 1963, it must have occurred to Truman that the disgraced Dulles and his outraged associates might not be above conspiring to get rid of a President they felt was soft on Communism-and, incidentally, get even.
In his op-ed of December 22, 1963 Truman warned: "The most important thing...was to guard against the chance of intelligence being used to influence or to lead the President into unwise decisions." It is a safe bet that Truman had the Bay of Pigs fiasco uppermost in mind.
Truman called outright for CIA's operational duties [to] be terminated or properly used elsewhere." (This is as good a recommendation now as it was then, in my view.)
On December 27, retired Admiral Sidney Souers, whom Truman had appointed to lead his first central intelligence group, sent a "Dear Boss" letter applauding Truman's outspokenness and blaming Dulles for making the CIA "a different animal than I tried to set up for you." Souers specifically lambasted the attempt "to conduct a ‘war' invading Cuba with a handful of men and without air cover."
Souers also lamented the fact that the agency's "principal effort" had evolved into causing "revolutions in smaller countries around the globe," and added:
With so much emphasis on operations, it would not surprise me to find that the matter of collecting and processing intelligence has suffered some."
Clearly, CIA's operational tail was wagging the substantive dog-a serious problem that persists to this day. For example, CIA analysts are super-busy supporting operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan; no one seems to have told them that they need to hazard a guess as to where this is all leading and whether it makes any sense.
That is traditionally done in a National Intelligence Estimate. Can you believe there at this late date there is still no such Estimate? Instead, the President has chosen to rely on he advice of Gen. David Petraeus, who many believe will be Obama's opponent in the 2012 presidential election.
Fox Guarding Henhouse?
In any case, the well-connected Dulles got himself appointed to the Warren Commission and took the lead in shaping the investigation of JFK's assassination. Documents in the Truman Library show that he then mounted a targeted domestic covert action of his own to neutralize any future airing of Truman's and Souers' warnings about covert action.
So important was this to Dulles that he invented a pretext to get himself invited to visit Truman in Independence, Missouri. On the afternoon of April 17, 1964 he spent a half-hour trying to get the former President to retract what he had said in his op-ed. No dice, said Truman.
No problem, thought Dulles. Four days later, in a formal memo for his old buddy Lawrence Houston, CIA General Counsel from 1947 to 1973, Dulles fabricated a private retraction, claiming that Truman told him the Washington Post article was "all wrong," and that Truman "seemed quite astounded at it."
No doubt Dulles thought it might be handy to have such a memo in CIA files, just in case.
A fabricated retraction? It certainly seems so, because Truman did not change his tune. Far from it. In a June 10, 1964 letter to the managing editor of Look magazine, for example, Truman restated his critique of covert action, emphasizing that he never intended the CIA to get involved in "strange activities."
Dulles and Dallas
Dulles could hardly have expected to get Truman to recant publicly. So why was it so important for Dulles to place in CIA files a fabricated retraction. My guess is that in early 1964 he was feeling a good bit of heat from those suggesting the CIA might have been involved somehow in the Kennedy assassination. Indeed, one or two not-yet-intimidated columnists were daring to ask how the truth could ever come out with Allen Dulles on the Warren Commission. Prescient.
Dulles feared, rightly, that Truman's limited-edition op-ed might yet get some ink, and perhaps even airtime, and raise serious questions about covert action. Dulles would have wanted to be in position to flash the Truman "retraction," with the hope that this would nip any serious questioning in the bud. The media had already shown how co-opted-er, I mean "cooperative"-it could be.
As the de facto head of the Warren Commission, Dulles was perfectly positioned to exculpate himself and any of his associates, were any commissioners or investigators-or journalists-tempted to question whether the killing in Dallas might have been a CIA covert action.
Did Allen Dulles and other
"cloak-and-dagger" CIA operatives have a hand in killing President Kennedy and
then covering it up? The most
up-to-date-and, in my view, the best-dissection of the assassination appeared
last year in James Douglass' book, JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters. After
updating and arraying the abundant evidence, and conducting still more
interviews, Douglass concludes the answer is Yes.
This article first appeared on Consortiumnews.com.




169 Comments so far
Show AllThey are not afraid, and have no need to be afraid as long as they do as they are told.
Now we're getting to the bottom of the poppy bush.
Nice one! ; )
The cia is run on the premise that anyone that gets in their way can be killed...anyone.
Lies are their basic product.
They do the bidding of their masters without question.
Either Obama was schooled to play the role
while working for Business International Corp
as is suggested by Pilger, or
he was taken into a quiet backroom and schooled.
Both are bad.
The cia and all the rest of the covert agencies must be weeded out, now and forever.
Darkness dies in the Light
How can they ever be afraid when they are part of the problem? All the Presidents since Kennedy have been handpicked to be puppets for the politically elite that really run America. And Kennedy was also handpicked but double crossed the elite, so had to be eliminated. These quislings like Obomba, know they have nothing to fear as long as they lie to the American people and toe the line. A good analogy would be a gang member fearing his own gang members.
Are Presidents Afraid of the CIA?
They are terrified. All you have to do is watch the Zapruder film and you'll do exactly as you are told.
Comedian Bill Hicks (RIP) did a great routine on this very subject back in about 1991 or 92. He said he pictures every President since Kennedy, upon Inauguration, is taken to a long, dark room where one guy is sitting, and his face can't be seen. A movie screen comes down from the far wall, and a film of the Kennedy assassination starts playing. It's a version no one has ever seen before, but a view that looks strikingly like it may have come from somewhere on the grassy knoll. The film finishes, the screen goes up, and the man asks,
"Any questions?"
"Just what my first orders are."
The other shoe, Miggy, is when you really know and get it that the GAME IS OVER, and then what are YOU going to do?
Think of it this way, we have been wearing our own MASK of SANITY [refers to study of Psychopaths] as a country for a very long time. The MASK is slipping. On this board, for example, very few are buying into the MASK anymore.
Heinous actions have been committed against others all through our history, and now more of the same in collusion with other MASKED ones.
You can just get away with awful things for just so long, and then the karma kicks in. I think that's happening and will escalate.
Our system is no longer responsive, does not work for the people, but for the very, very rich and those interested in expanding the EMPIRE and keeping control over people and nations.
We can blow ourselves away. That's one solid shoe dropping.
We can continue to commit slow suicide by not responding at all to the climate change warnings. That's another shoe dropping, a little slower, but the human species may very well be exterminated.
The people can rise up and get blown away by Blackwater mercenaries and whatever other military will be here to blow us away.
The people can start getting very creative, and there's lots of articles on that around.
But again, if you know that one shoe has dropped and the other hasn't, what are YOU going to do.
/cm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX2jcNlofO4
What it takes is for most citizens in America to get informed.
Then, if most Americans speak out, ANGRILY, against the C.I.A. the tide will turn.
The C.I.A. cannot go after multi-millions of people, ALL speaking out and TEACHING others about the horrid, despicable, criminal actions of these scum.
The more that I learn about this, the more I hate certain factions of our government.
I despise the C.I.A. and like President Kennedy, think that they should be broken into a thousand pieces.
President Truman is a patriot, and has become my heroe.
The C.I.A., by contrast, are the most unpatriotic of Americans.
They are traitors.
Come on, my fellow patriotic Americans..... get informed, then teach others.
Spoken like a true pentagram troll. No doubt, trying to flag this site as subversive, which it is not. The CIA does it's job. It's job is to de-stabilize the rest of the world. And the CIA is great at it. The problem is this.... that's not what it was chartered to do. As McGovern explains, it's an intelligence Organ. But it has repeatedly gone malignant against it's commander, the president.
But the same could be said of the Pentagon and Wall Street. They are now rival Kingdoms and need to at least be broken into a few pieces as Ray asserts in his fine articles.
The CIA is anything but traitors. Traitors to the Constitution you will find in all the signatories to the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act. Traitors you will find in NorthCom who are deployed against peaceful citizens. Traitors you will find in the Nostra infested Federal Reserve Bank and the dens of the US treasury-looting Bank Bailout Barons.
Intolerable Acts of which the founding fathers would rally against.
TJ
of all of our recent presidents (post-kennedy), bush sr. has been the deepest...and he was in dallas that day, working for the cia...
And he was in Washington the day before 911 at the Carlyle "Business Conference" with Bin Laden's Brother Shafiq bin Laden. Seems old Poppy likes to be in the same city that the hit occurs in.....
http://www.wanttoknow.info/030316post
It didn't help that as the World Trade Center burned on Sept. 11, 2001, the news interrupted a Carlyle business conference at the Ritz-Carlton Hotel here attended by a brother of Osama bin Laden. Former president Bush, a fellow investor, had been with him at the conference the previous day.
wikipedia says
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlyle_group:
In the documentary film Fahrenheit 911, Michael Moore makes nine allegations concerning the Carlyle Group, including: That the Bin Laden and Bush families were both connected to the Group; that following the attacks on September 11, the bin Laden family’s investments in the Carlyle Group became an embarrassment to the Carlyle Group and the family was forced to liquidate their assets with the firm; that the Carlyle group was, in essence, the 11th largest defense contractor in the United States.[24] Moore focused on Carlyle's connections with George H. W. Bush and his Secretary of State James A. Baker III, both of whom had at times served as advisors to the firm.
A Carlyle spokesman noted in 2003 that its 7% interest in defense industries was far less than several other Private equity firms.[25] Carlyle also has provided detail on its links with the Bin Laden family, specifically the relatively minor investments by an estranged half brother.[26]
In his documentary The World According to Bush (May 2004), William Karel interviewed Frank Carlucci to discuss the presence of Shafiq bin Laden, Osama bin Laden's estranged brother, at Carlyle's annual investor conference while the September 11 attacks were occurring.[26][27]
Zeitgeist The Movie makes similar claims that The Carlyle Group may have played a part in 9/11.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafiq_bin_Laden
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Stuff like that has been why Moore's movies have been so suppressed in their availability to the general public and why the Kerry campaign/DLC so distanced themselves from Michael when he'd actually given them all of the evidence against Bush that they needed to win a fraud-proof election.
I was very excited about the Kerry campaign, shame on me...that was the one that taught me to believe the already festering doubts within me...
my attempts at caucusing were eye-opening, and incredibly disappointing, as I watched the Delphi technique, and others, in action, and listened to 'my' democrats do everything they could to avoid meaningful confrontation with the Bush regime, even to the point of being unwilling to admit to any of the darker possibilities...
Kerry's way-too-quick concession, and later revelations about his personal stock holdings, and their direct relationship to ongoing war, left me chastised, but much, much wiser...
the whole political arena is a sham front for crime and profit at the global level...the 'families' our country would point to as our dynasties are the families that run, or facilitate, these crime syndicates...
Yes Russ Bakers family of Secrets is a must. Chapter 5 of this book could change world history if enough people read it.
The Warren Commission and the 911 Commission have a lot in common: THEY WERE BOTH WHITEWASHES FOR THE AMERICAN SHEEPLE!
sorry, as a progressive, i still have to say that oswald was the lone assassin. a chronic underachiever who felt he had a destiny to achieve. how he got into the history books did not matter to him. his psychological profile fits that of most assassins. with everything else in the article, i totally agree. obama is a five star coward who lacks the experience, courage, and true self-confidence to stand up to the cia torturers and our franco-like generals. what people keep forgetting is the number of prisoners who have died in c.i.a. custody, with no arrests made. the media never make this point, the most salient of all, as to make that point is to demonstrate that the c.i.a. literally gets away with murder.
Oswald may very well have been the lone assassin. It's not unreasonable to think so. However, always remember this: immediately after the shots were fired, both on-foot and motorcycle police ran up the Grassy Knoll because they were certain that's where the shots came from. Joe Marshall Smith was one of the motorcycle cops closest to Kennedy. He drove up the Knoll, jumped off his motorcycle and went behind the fence where so many people said the shots came from. There he encountered a man wearing a a sport coat and polo shirt whose hands were dirty. The man showed Joe Marshall Smith Secret Service identification. Smith knew what that identification looked like and he says it was genuine. However, all the Secret Service personnel were either in the motorcade or at the Dallas Trade Mart where Kennedy was scheduled to deliver a speech. So who was that man with the dirty hands, wearing a sport coat and polo shirt?
Read "JFK and the Unspeakable".
I agree with the above!
Oswald took matters into his own hands with Cuba. He's actually a left-wing success story. One less millionaire playboy playing God with the world; I weep not.
In any murder you have to look for a motive. There is NO motive for the security state to kill Kennedy. The man ran in '60 on a "missile gap" lie, claiming the GOP & Eisenhower were TOO SOFT on the USSR. Kennedy was ramping up the military complex that Eisenhower warned us about at that moment knowing full well what Kennedy was about.
Oswald had quite a bit of motive, with Kennedy on the wrong side of a world revolution.
Enough with these Oliver Stone fantasies!
"There is NO motive for the security state to kill Kennedy."
Did you read the article? OK, I'll tell you what it says: Kennedy crossed Allen Dulles after Dulles tried to trick him into invading Cuba.
There were other people with plenty of motives to kill Kennedy:
The Kennedy brothers both made their political careers busting the Mafia's balls, which really offended them since they got the votes out for Kennedy in Chicago.
Every racist who worked in the FBI or CIA hated the Kennedys and there were lots of them in 1963.
And guess what? There were FBI agents who secretly worked for the CIA and CIA agents who worked closely with the Mafia and even one made member of the Mafia who was not only an FBI agent, but the Cook County Sheriff.
Maybe they... conspired?
Read about it. Books, there’s stuff in them.
So it took the mafia PLUS the FBI PLUS the CIA to shoot one man twice.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Anyone who thinks that Kennedy REDUCED military spending and REDUCED involvement in Vietnam is an idiot.
Gotta categorically disagree with your entire post, QUIZMASTERCHRIS. Sorry.
The National Security State had the MOST viable motive for getting rid of Kennedy. He started out as a Cold Warrior, yes, and then he started turning the other direction as President, especially after the Cuban Missile Crisis. He made a turn toward peace, and that was unacceptable to the Cold War establishment. He and Khruschev started a secret, back-door correspondence throughout the JFK presidency regarding their mutual desire to end the Cold War and begin dismantling the military-industrial complexes in both countries. He also started a back-door correspondence with Castro. Kennedy even called for the entire withdrawal of US troops from Vietnam with National Security Action Memorandum 263, signed two months before his assassination . . . the order was never followed, as we all so sadly know. Kennedy had crossed the line, in their opinion.
This is all well documented in the book McGovern mentions, as more and more information is being declassified via The Freedom of Information Act and the JFK Records Act.
Also documented there is the likely possibility that, not only was Oswald a CIA asset, but he was also trying to warn people of an impending assassination on JFK. Speeches and writings by Oswald clearly suggest one who was a FAN of Kennedy rather than a hateful enemy. Of course, those documents were never included in the Warren Whitewash and are only now being disseminated.
Believing the Oliver Stone movie is the only information out there regarding this subject, is quite ridiculous.
Peace,
John
"Believing the Oliver Stone movie is the only information out there regarding this subject, is quite ridiculous."
That would be ridiculous, which is why I never stated anything of the sort.
The US military build-up continued unabated through the early 60s. Kennedy sent missiles to Turkey which triggered the missile crisis. Kennedy invaded Cuba. Kennedy attempted to have Castro killed repeatedly. This is fact.
Riddle me this, Einstein: why did NOTHING HAPPEN to DD Eisenhower WHO GAVE A PRIME TIME TV SPEECH WARNING PEOPLE ABOUT THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX.
You want me to believe that the MIC would let THAT happen but would then wait 3 years to blow away Kennedy after his loyal warmongering service? I don't think so.
This is what passes for the "Left" in this country, a bunch of kooks? How sad.
Sorry to have to correct you yet again . . .
But the very last missiles in Turkey were taken down in April of 1963 -- April 24th, to be exact -- while Kennedy was still President. Kennedy did not put them there. He had them taken down. This is the secret promise he made to Khruschev that prompted Khruschev to dismantle the missiles in Cuba. Kennedy did NOT invade Cuba. Not once. He held back the Joint Chiefs and the CIA from doing it, in fact. They wanted to invade and he said no. Kennedy did NOT repeatedly try to kill Castro. That, again, was the CIA, despite Kennedy's strict orders not to do so.
Eisenhower's speech was merely that . . . a speech. He did little, if anything, to actually stop the MIC. (That being said, his speech should be commended, and I truly believe he WANTED to stop the MIC in his administration but was unable to). Dulles and the CIA ran rampant during the Eisenhower administration (while Kennedy tried to rein them in). The Bay of Pigs invasion was signed off by Eisenhower and left to Kennedy to deal with.
Seriously, get your facts correct please, before you verbally attack us. Kennedy was FAR from perfect, and I would never suggest as such. But the truth is, he wanted to end the Cold War with Khruschev's help and even Castro's help, and for that, he became the enemy of the national Security State.
Um... the SOVIETS proposed and pushed the missiles being removed from Turkey, and having their missiles shipped to Cuba forced that to happen:
http://hnn.us/articles/7982.html
I especially like the paragraph in which JFK himself points out that the Turkey missiles are militarily useless:
"JFK’s reply represents a turning point in the discussions—leaving no doubt about his evolving position: “Well now, that’s what we oughta be thinkin’ about. We’re gonna be in an insupportable position on this matter if this becomes his proposal. In the first place, we last year tried to get the missiles out of there because they’re not militarily useful, number one. Number two, it’s gonna—to any man at the United Nations or any other rational man, it will look like a very fair trade.”"
JFK was just another warmongering capitalist tool on the wrong side of a world revolution, and Oswald took him out.
Not to mention, Eisenhower gave that speech as one of his last, just before leaving office.. that's explains why nothing happened to him. It's one thing to give a speech on your way out the door - quite another to behave as Kennedy did.
Thanks Seventhson.,
I believe you are possibly correct. JFK was turning peaceful, while the CIA was turning militant and aggressive. I have read accounts that claim, That an island owned by oil man Howard Hughes in the gulf and leased by Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company was the CIA forward operations jumping-off point in operations against Cuba. Zapata was CIA G.H.W. Bush's ("Poppy's") front company which I speculate stood to loose a lot of CIA dollars and Oil dollars if the CIA/MIC Invasion of Cuba was stopped by JFK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapata_Petroleum
Feast your eyes on these little de-classified documents that shows Poppy Bush VERY involved in the JFK assassination:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Bush_Sr_tip_on_JFK_1963.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Bush_Sr%2C_JFK_-_J_Edgar_Hoover_memo_2.jpg
.
.
.
My post is all just my opinion only, and I could be wrong.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Thanks for the links TJ. Those are great. Looking forward to more and more documents being declassified in the coming years.
Yeah, JFK turning to peace is the main thesis of that Douglass book McGovern mentions. Just finished reading it. Excellent book! He was a huge problem for the MIC.
I was told of the hit before it happened and I got to see the double Oswald that day and Bush, and David Ferrie and Hoover and i thought I would be killed too.
It all started when I was a kid in cleveland and Allen Dulles disguised as a communist by the name of Jack Leblanc wanted me to witness something that could get my dad in trouble.
Listen more to those who have been there and you might learn something that is true.
As far as what really went down in Texas that day, you don't have a clue.
Please seek help.
The truth is the only real help.
I was there, so where were you on Nov 22nd 63?
The truth is not what you read, you buy into the CIA/FBI lie about JFK and now you want to convince me that you are against them more than me.
You are insane.
Hey Jim,
Do you have any of your dad's old documents? I've got a couple of fledgling websites and we could throw them up there. If you want to tell your account on it, just say the word and I'll build you a page.
Cheers,
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
George de Mohrenshildt was friends with both George H Bush and Lee Harvey Oswald in 1963. When George de Mohrenshildt asked George H Bush for help when House was about to reopen inquiry into the original Warren Report, George de Mohrenshildt ended up dead couple of weeks later.
George W. Bush's brother, Marvin, was on the board of directors of a company providing electronic security for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines. The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for years to the Bush family.
The Bush family likes to be near the center of action.
i say oswald did it because neutral scientists have actually duplicated the awful effects of oswald's third shot. they shot a virtual human head from the same height and angle as oswald did, and the grisly results were nearly the same (splatter and head reaction) as those we have endured over the last thirty years watching the zapreuder film. they even tested under the same wind conditions. also, the windshield on the president's continental made it impossible for a gunmen to hit kennedy's head from the grassy knoll. making kennedy's head even less accessible from that angle is the fact that he was depresssed in his seat when the third shot hit him. and, now, even the single bullet theory seems more plausible a theory since new evidence shows that the backseat in which kennedy and his wife sat was higher than connally's seat. of course, proving that oswald was not someone's patsy is an impossible to refute negative proposition, like show me your country has no weapons of mass destruction. it is strange that a guy who had been both a u.s. marine and a soviet activist was able to freely globewalk during the height of the cold war. he had even been a radar specialist for the u.s. at one time. but, surely no communist would stake warld war 3 on a goofy man by comandeering oswald, of all people, to kill a u.s. president, especially when johnson would succeed him.
If you read a book or two, you will find explanations for Oswald's travels and affiliations. He was being set up by the CIA and the Mafia to look like an agent of Castro. He thought he was being groomed by the CIA to go to Cuba and shoot Castro. Evidence points to the Mafia killing Kennedy, but using the CIA as cover and Oswald as an unwitting patsy. As for ballistics, that's just one piece of the puzzle.
The CTKA website has some solid rebuttals to the "neutral scientists" that you cite.
Both John Connally and his wife, two of the closest witnesses to the shooting, maintained consistently to the end of their lives that the Single Bullet Theory was impossible.
The "jet effect" theory explaining Kennedy's backward head snap was not part of the Warren Commission Report, and was only brought forward as a response to the (unauthorized) public release of the Zapruder film, which only happened a decade after the event. Most members of the Commission were not shown the film, and the Report itself reversed the frames of the fatal headshot.
The government, every step of the way, has acted as if it has had something to hide.
What's even more strange, JOHNNY U, is that a "Soviet activist" who publicly promised to sell what he knew to the USSR (and I'm speaking of Oswald, of course) was allowed back into the US so easily and flawlessly, and then issued a passport in under a day, in order to get BACK in the USSR (my apologies to the Beatles).
Much like this current hallaballoo about the Nigerian man who so easily made it onto an airplane, it ought to make one wonder . . .
then figure this out.
There were two Oswalds and the FBI Was lookin for the double when Lee was in Russia.
The rifle ordered by Alex Hidell was different than the rifle found in the Book depository.
The straps are connected to the bottom on the catalog and the back yard photo and the straps are connected to the sides of the stock in the "snipers nest rifle"
Now the magic bullet was magic because it was metal jacket desined not to explode but the bullets that hit JFK's head exploded into hundreds of tiny pieces....
more bullets hit the grass and pavement and limo and there was more frgments left in JFK and Connely's body than were missing from the magic bullet.
Now are you at least aware that LBJ gave orders (memo) to the government and media to find Oswald the lone assassin with no confederates (his words) at large... and this was before the Warren Commission was born. this was the day after Ruby killed Oswald.
Don't forget the Tooth Fairy, this thing has her fingerprints all over it.
You are the Tooth Fairy, quizmaster. Like the tooth fairy you offer only myth that we have all been told.
Where were you on that day?
You are the Tooth Fairy, quizmaster. Like the tooth fairy you offer only myth that we have all been told.
Where were you on that day?
Have you read any books on the subject? Try "Utmost Sacrifice". In my experiecnce, those who beleive that Oswald was the assassin haven't actually read anything on the subject.
Oswald the lone gunman? Never could have happened.
Kennedy was trying to find ways to get that war slowed down and stopped. Johnson wanted the war. All the people with real money and much much more money at stake knew it.
What? the poor in the US and Viet Nam would suffer miserably?
Nothing personal. It was business.
Now they don't even bother to try to hide the profit motive for illegal invasions and occupations.
Really? Because he ran on a platform of increasing the arms race and invaded Cuba and increased our presence in Vietnam.
Other than that though, yeah, he was a regular beatnik peacemonger.
Can we please give Oswald some credit here? One Oswald is worth every Obama voter COMBINED. Give me the former in my foxhole every time!
Having been in a few foxholes, I must say, you are quite the vandal. If the conclusions didn't precede the information, you might have a bit of credibility. It is well documented that JFK intended to draw down in Vietnam, despite public posturing prior to the general election. Documented fact... inconvenient for your little hypothesis.
Again, what I find fascinating is this emotionally charged, ideologically driven posturing. I suspect cynicism of the first water. It's highly questionable that you even believe any of this stuff you're saying. I had a friend that was actually so far right wing, he had a fascination with Hitler. But, he used to pose as a Communist, wearing a vest with all the hippy buttons... and have long arguments at the American Opinion Bookstore with the local John Birch Society chairman. It was fun to watch.
You're not nearly so entertaining. Really, you need a rattle can of Krylon, and an empty alley wall.
Translation: you got nothin'. People go for the pseudo-psychological profiling when their fact bag is empty.
So we KNOW that Kennedy INCREASED involvement in Vietnam, including the assassination of the South Vietnamese PM, but you claim that Kennedy "had plans to" draw down in Vietnam.
Um... right.
The same Kennedy who was trying to kill Castro, who sent missiles to Turkey and almost ended the world, the Bay of Pigs Kennedy, the "missile gap" liar Kennedy, the increased military spending Kennedy that Eisenhower warned us about, the "MLK is a woman" (his greatest insult as a woman-hater!) Kennedy... you're saying he was a SECRET PEACENIK.
I don't buy it.
Kennedy took on th Zionists.I haven't been a mouse in the corner but Obomba hung out with Teddy marginally and no doubt was filled in about who was really behind his brother's murder and why.
Tell that to Sirhan Sirhan.