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TechnoratiLetter to Bush on Gaza Crisis
Dear George W. Bush,
Cong. Barney Frank said recently that Barack Obama's declaration that "there is only one president at a time" over-estimated the number. He was referring to the economic crisis. But where are you on the Gaza crisis where the civilian population of Gaza, its civil servants and public facilities are being massacred and destroyed respectively by U.S built F-16s and U.S. built helicopter gunships.
The deliberate suspension of your power to stop this terrorizing of 1.5 million people, mostly refugees, blockaded for months by air, sea and land in their tiny slice of land, is in cowardly contrast to the position taken by President Dwight Eisenhower in 1956. That year he single handedly stopped the British, French and Israeli aircraft attack against Egypt during the Suez Canal dispute.
Fatalities in Gaza are already over 400 and injuries close to 2000 so far as is known. Total Palestinian civilian casualties are 400 times greater then the casualties incurred by Israelis. But why should anyone be surprised at your blanket support for Israel's attack given what you have done to a far greater number of civilians in Iraq and now in Afghanistan?
Confirmed visual reports show that Israeli warplanes and warships have destroyed or severely damaged police stations, homes, hospitals, pharmacies, mosques, fishing boats, and a range of public facilities providing electricity and other necessities.
Why should this trouble you at all? It violates international law, including the Geneva Conventions and the UN Charter. You too have repeatedly violated international law and committed serious constitutional transgressions.
Then there is the matter of the Israeli government blocking imports of critical medicines, equipment such as dialysis machines, fuel, food, water, spare parts and electricity at varying intensities for almost two years. The depleted UN aid mission there has called this illegal blockade a humanitarian crisis especially devastating to children, the aged and the infirm. Chronic malnutrition among children is rising rapidly. UN rations support eighty percent of this impoverished population.
How do these incontrovertible facts affect you? Do you have any empathy or what you have called Christian charity?
What would a vastly shrunken Texas turned in an encircled Gulag do up against the 4th most powerful military in the world? Would these embattled Texans be spending their time chopping wood?
Gideon Levy, the veteran Israeli columnist for Ha'aretz, called the Israeli attack a "brutal and violent operation" far beyond what was needed for protecting the people in its south. He added: "The diplomatic efforts were just in the beginning, and I believe we could have got to a new truce without this bloodshed.....to send dozens of jets to bomb a total helpless civilian society with hundreds of bombs-just today, they were burying five sisters. I mean, this is unheard of. This cannot go on like this. And this has nothing to do with self-defense or with retaliation even. It went out of proportion, exactly like two-and-a-half years ago in Lebanon."
Apparently, thousands of Israelis, including some army reservists, who have demonstrated against this destruction of Gaza agree with Mr. Levy. However, their courageous stands have not reached the mass media in the U.S. whose own reporters cannot even get into Gaza due to Israeli prohibitions on the international press.
Your spokespeople are making much ado about the breaking of the six month truce. Who is the occupier? Who is the most powerful military force? Who controls and blocks the necessities of life? Who has sent raiding missions across the border most often? Who has sent artillery shells and missiles at close range into populated areas? Who has refused the repeated comprehensive peace offerings of the Arab countries issued in 2002 if Israel would agree to return to the 1967 borders and agree to the creation of a small independent Palestinian state possessing just twenty two percent of the original Palestine?
The "wildly inaccurate rockets", as reporters describe them, coming from Hamas and other groups cannot compare with the modern precision armaments and human damage generated from the Israeli side.
There are no rockets coming from the West Bank into Israel. Yet the Israeli government is still sending raiders into that essentially occupied territory, still further entrenching its colonial outposts, still taking water and land and increasing the checkpoints This is going on despite a most amenable West Bank leader, Mahmoud Abbas, whom you have met with at the White House and praised repeatedly. Is it all vague words and no real initiatives with you and your emissary Condoleezza Rice?
Peace was possible, but you provided no leadership, preferring instead to comply with all wishes and demands by the Israeli government-even resupplying it with the still active cluster bombs in south Lebanon during the invasion of that country in 2006.
The arguments about who started the latest hostilities go on and on with Israel always blaming the Palestinians to justify all kinds of violence and harsh treatment against innocent civilians.
From the Palestinian standpoint, you would do well to remember the origins of this conflict which was the dispossession of their lands. To afford you some empathy, recall the oft-quoted comment by the founder of Israel, David Ben-Gurion, who told the Zionist leader, Nahum Goldmann:
"There has been anti-Semitism the Nazis Hitler Auschwitz but was that their [the Palestinians] fault? They only see one thing: We have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?"
Alfred North Whitehead once said: "Duty arises out of the power to alter the course of events." By that standard, you have shirked mightily your duty over the past eight years to bring peace to both Palestinians and Israelis and more security to a good part of the world.
The least you can do in your remaining days at the White House is adopt a modest profile in courage, and vigorously demand and secure a ceasefire and a solidly based truce. Then your successor, President-elect Obama can inherit something more than the usual self-censoring Washington puppet show that eschews a proper focus on the national interests of the United States.
Sincerely,
Ralph Nader
147 Comments so far
Show AllThe Glue That Holds Chaos Together
Ralph, I always love to hear your opinions , but if you are going to run for President again, would you please start your campaign as soon as Obama takes office, instead of waiting until the last minute to give a half-assed attempt.
Thank you!
Politicians, which Nader ain't, are 'targeted for defeat,' in elections subsequent to any betrayal of loyalty to our Mother Country, so I wonder, why is Ralph not in Gaza, on the front lines? It would make a powerful statement to he world.
What a GREAT thing to wonder. That helps, thanks so little for that.
Interesting how Ralph doesn't both to ask anyone to stop Hamas from dropping missles on Israeli schools and homes, from stashing ammunition among innocent civilians in Gaza, from further impoverishing Gazans in the name of attacking innocent Israelis, and from offering their own innocent civilian deaths in order to keep the Israelis from reacting to their constant barrage of attacks.
Go away Ralph. We don't need you; we don't want you. You have become a slur on the national stage. Your continuing sympathy for violent, murdering, extremist guerillas against civilized and law bound people is dissipatting what little respect I had left for you after the election.
Patriots defend the constitution!
sierra7
".....extremist guerillas against civilized and law bound people"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Whose "law"? What "civilized" people? Israel???? The only country in the world without defined borders?
Get Real....
Ralph Nader has done more for the enlightenment of the American people that I would suggest that you will do in your entire lifetime!
As for the "rule of law" in the ME, it comes from the barrel of a gun thru a criminal state (Israel) and backed by another more monstrous criminal state, the US.
foxwizard, you a bad mf, peace out.
Here is what received as an e-mail from Amnesty International as their response to these events:
"It may be a new year, but the bloodshed in Gaza this past week is a clear reminder that there's no time to wait to protect human rights in 2009.
Since December 27, these horrific attacks on Gaza have caused over 400 Palestinian deaths and 2000 injuries. Rocket fire by armed Palestinian groups, including Hamas, has taken the lives of 4 Israelis and caused several dozen injuries. Amnesty International condemns the violence on both sides and calls on both parties to abide by international law and policies.
The U.S. government cannot continue this lop-sided blame on Hamas for the crisis. Ask Secretary Rice to urgently express deep concern about Israel's disproportional response and its policies which have brought the Gaza Strip to the brink of humanitarian disaster.
Civilians in Gaza, already trapped in disgraceful humanitarian conditions, are victims of Israeli air strikes and intensified attacks. Israeli blockades of humanitarian supplies continue to deny Palestinians the food and medical supplies they desperately need.
Join Amnesty International in calling for Secretary Rice to:
Pressure Israel and Palestinian armed groups to cease attacks on civilians
Demand an end to Israel's disproportional response
Urge Israel to open the crossings to let humanitarian aid in
Together we can help lift Gaza out of this crisis.
Sincerely,
Curt Goering
Senior Deputy Executive Director"
Speaking for yourself ONLY! Many of us here want Ralph very much and in fact are hoping very much for the day when Zionist trolls called in by Giyus go away.
http://giyus.org/
And people wonder why I voted for him. Cheers Ralph! Thank you for speaking truth to power.
this will NEVER end. Period.
On July 12, 1937, Ben-Gurion wrote in his diary explaining the benefits of the compulsory population transfer (which was proposed in British Peel Commission):
"The compulsory transfer of the [Palestinian] Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own during the days of the first and second Temples. . . We are given an opportunity which we never dared to dream of in our wildest imaginings. This is MORE than a state, government and sovereignty----this is national consolidation in a free homeland." (Righteous Victims, p. 142)
Huffington Post is reporting that Pres. Bush said re Gaza, "leave it for Obama to deal with" (paraphrase)on their home page.
while we have posters commenting on a palace revolt in maine - totally oblivious, or ignorant, to the simple fact that people have been bashing obama, yes right here on c.d., since before and during and obviously after the election - we have others stating that nader is one of the finest americans to serve unpaid and yet others stating his personal worth at nearly four million bucks, not even owning a car (perhaps he travels on foot???), never seeking to profit from his crusades. why then does he continue with his wet dream presidency fantasy? he should be going with his strength as a consumer advocate and continuing his investments in weapons manufacturing and dragging along the less than 1% support of actual voters (all three who have seemingly, together, found common dreams as their sounding board). ralph, you're a bit early to start your campaigning. the next general election for president is still three years and nine months away. of course, a change in campaign strategy obviously wouldn't hurt you any.
keep posting, azjoe. it's fun to watch the others, after the obvious checkmate, screaming checkmate back. as if...
I wonder how many Green Party supporters voted for the green party candidate, McKinney...
And how many Greens left the party to follow their charismatic leader?
The old canard of Nader stealing votes from Dems has been disproven in many ways...
I am interested to learn what was Ralph's motivation to split the Green party ticket...
once he didn't get the nomination and decided to run as an independent...
It would seem that Ralph would be more effective in getting third parties into the debates...
and getting public funding as a recognized political party by throwing his support behind McKinney...
Instead of pulling a Leiberman and running as an independent...
lino, Hello, yeah, I do it for speaking truth and the entertainment factor as well. Kind of a two for one. But like picking on children......they should avoid the fray. Sadly unarmed.
Of course after your crocodile tears over Nader's supposed offense I suppose Obama gets a giant pass for caving on FISA, accepting literally millions in donations from Wall St. and then shock of shocks filling his cabinet with war mongering pro Iraq war escalate in Afghanistan neo-con overtly pro Zionist zealots and banksters? Double standard much Dimocrapic party apologists?
LMAO!
You have a great way with words hoot!
I am impressed also with how you don't suffer trolls greatly!
I have never understood the inane jealousy toward Nader from lesser minds. Yes, ralph does not own a car (I know the sandbaggers above cannot comprehend this.) He takes public transportation. He is a fine citizen: the finest. To slander him with this ridiculous cluster bomb crap just shows how desperate and afraid of honesty and integrity those guys like Arizona Joe are.
Stop it already, your making fools of yourselves. As Hoot knows, Ralph was not trying to win a presidency. That was impossible. But buy raising uncomfortable issues that the corporate candidates were afraid to go into, Nadar did all Americans a great service. His issues became part of the campaign. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves trying to villify a good man.
Hey Monkey Person.
You are righteous saying your hero ralph don't drive....get real. I've personally seen him unfolding his Holy Self from Limo's twice, Who cares? Just hold the better than thou trip. Because Dear Sir, in a lively debate we trade concepts, and on CD, w/ facts, comprende? Limo's, but WHO cares? YOU? Mr Nader is a Philosopher, A great one who could have backed Sartre and Kierkagard on their heels. But a politician??? Pourquoi? Beauty is Dependent on the frame of the painting. Weird but true.
byebye
"Beauty is Dependent on the frame of the painting. Weird but true."
You just crossed the thin line between profound metaphor and goofy insane non sequitur I'm afraid, do not pass go, do not collect 200 from Dimocrpapac.
How's your hero Obama doing on dealing with Israel? Oh yeah he's ducking out and laying low waiting for Bidden and Hillary to draft an AIPAC approved policy paper for him isn't he? SIGH! My new President who yes I foolishly voted for already sucks, and he isn't even in office yet. Sorry Cynthia I won't betray the Greens again, promise. :(
Next!
Oh and thanks for the compliment ByeMonkeyBush you are pretty good there yourself. :)
hootowl, Hello. I am glad for the chance to say good evening, To wish you well. Although we see things differently, i would sure love it if we could discourse over time....It is easy to agree, more difficult to be challenged. I certainly concede many of the truths you relate, we never get to that, I just have a couple of POV's i'm dear on.
Like my Erica would say, "Peace Out"
hootowl, this is what differentiates thoughtful Obama supporters at Common Dreams like RSJ from the Obamabots like joehope and azjoe (sockpuppets, perhaps?). The Obamabots operate at the same level of honesty and intelligence as the Bushbots.
It doesn't matter how many times you point out Nader's accomplishments or his desire to abolish cluster bombs. His stock holdings are not really what the Obamabots are angry about. That's just an excuse. The real reason is that he dared to blaspheme against the Democratic Party, which is their God.
Good response VAGreen, sadly I voted for Obama after voting for Nader or Leonard Peltier every election after 92 and despite agreeing with Cynthia McKinney far more on the issues. I was duped by the phony message of "change you can believe in" and by the idea of an electable alternative to Bush. I should have known better, now seeing Obama's cabinet picks I know better that it's more of the same Bush/Clinton endless war, global trade agreements, and stripping back civil liberties and the social safety net on behalf of banksters and corporations. And no Dimocrap apologists pro choice is not the ONLY issue and certainly not enough to fool me AGAIN.
SIGH!
ANY Green 2012.
Dear VAGreen, hello. I respect your opinion. I just humbly submit that I see Mr. Nader differently than yourself. I also respect the fact that you are passionate about your beliefs.....Right On, Myself as well.....Happy New year. Then Happy New Year Again.
Damn, I shoulda voted for him instead
alas
All - I know i keep posting the same thing over and over again but we need to make this be known to the Obama team. Please post your comments to the Obama transition team:
http://change.gov/ (main website)
http://change.gov/page/content/contact/ (page to provide comments)
Regards,
Go ahead and have your say with Obama's "team" it can't hurt. OTOH I think you are pretty naive to think he will listen to his constituents the American people when he has made plain where his sympathies lay by appointing neo-con war mongers and banksters to his cabinet.
Nanoo
I quite agree with Ralph Nader's letter. With the knowledge of our taxpaper money funding the bombing of Gaza, sure took the happy out of the happy new year.
Imagine Nader is President - NO SILENCE on any of the important issues facing us. What a great country we could have, but we get stuck with Bush and nightmare Obama, both of whom have remained silent, and have vowed to continue support for the terrorism (and it is one-sided).
Has everyone written their letters - to their elected officials, to Bush, to Obama, to their universities, to their friends and family?? If not, go and do it right now!! They need to hear from us that we will not tolerate this terrorism nor the U.S. support of it (nor for that matter U.S. terrrorism either).
"webwalk" accuses me of oh so many postings. I counted 17 for 'web-walk' my accuser, in spite of this my only sentiment is ' hey web-walk, happy new year and happy 18th posting here'....I'm sure we all wait for # 18 with baited breath."
The owners of Common Dreams don't get any kudos just because they publish a Nader article. They have just the barest of progressive slant. When push came to shove, they always provided slightly negative articles about Nader, Kucinich, and almost nothing about Mike Gravel, another presidential candidate who happened to be more progressive than Obama.
I see some of the Obama defenders still try to tear down Nader while ignoring their own candidates positions and statements on almost every important issue that is contrary to bringing a just solution.
I'm sure that Nader supports the use of cluster bombs on innocent people. I'm sure that he has millions of dollars that he will be lavishly spending on himself. Nader is just waiting for the right moment. (for those who are confused, those statements are meant to be sarcastic).
Anyone who doubts Mr. Nader's sincerity but doesn't doubt Mr. Obama's is a paradigm to logic.
unrepentant Nader voter
A paradigm to logic? Thank you, I appreciate the compliment. It is, of course, quite logical to disparage a man whose only public effort in 30 years has been to split the Democratic vote so Republicans can continue to rule in their ruthless, greed-induced narcosis.
Perhaps you meant it as an insult, which may prove my hypothesis that people who admire Nader don't really think, and can't reason their way out of a paper bag.
Patriots defend the constitution!
sierra7
"....30 years has been to split the Democratic vote..."
What adulterous garbage that line is! Give it up for Pete's sake!!
Those that vote for an "alternate" candidate like Ralph Nader in most cases would not have voted at all......Those that still stick with the fact that Nader gave the vote to Bush are just crazy and not very well informed at all.
I'm a registered non-partisan voter...have voted both parties over my 78 years and now hold no hope whatsoever for a "reform" candidate to stand on truly progressive issues...
There is not too much difference in the Dem/Repub parties except for some "nuances."
We are ruled by the historic money dominance and are too timid to take to the streets and stage a true "democratic revolution." At least not yet, not yet!!
Most of the anti-Nader "ranters and ravers" can't hold a candle to this man.
The idea that Nader split the Democratic vote has never been suggested by any informed person. Go out and try to find a Nader supporter who would vote for any of the corporate whores the Democrat party has offered had Nader not been running.
When you get tired of looking, take a nap and with a little luck you could wake up with a clue.
jonabar
Ridiculous. There has been no shortage of Obama critics here. Not that there should be. It just isn't true.
I would have liked to see Obama writing a letter like this, or speaking out somewhere, instead of remaining silent. Even worse, his handlers suggest that he supports Israel, as does his choice of Biden and his choice of Clinton. Obama is disappointing to many of us even before he takes charge. I'm afraid he's going to be a big disappointment to the many voters who hoped he would truly bring change to US politics . . . .
Relevancy please?
How is this in any way about Obama?
And it is a mistake to assume that a vote for Obama was necessarily a vote against Nader. Nader is a man who's opinions I largely share. He is also a man for whom I harbor great respect.
That doesn't mean he would be a good president.
I personally think he would make a lousy President even if he were a serious candidate.
I still support him though, and support his letter, and will work to try to get many of his ideas into law.
Why would he make a lousy President, reasons please? Your posts here have been unusually clear and substantiated but that is just an unsubstantiated claim, care to fill it out? Thanks!!!!
Regardless, after G.W. Bush, Nader would have been a massive improvement.
After Bush, my dog would have made a great president; that doesn't mean I would have voted for him, since I like having him home.
Nader, OTOH, I wouldn't vote for if he were the only candidate on the ticket. The man has no historical sense and can't seem to confront, uh, reality.
Patriots defend the constitution!
It is very clear that the genocidial Zionists who govern Israel and an ever larger part of the United States have absolutely no intention of ever complying with the United Nation Security Council Resolution 242 so the only choice remaining to the world body as a whole is to repeal United Nation General Assembly Resolution 181.
The first step is to nail Israel down as to where it thinks it's border are, it is true that if Israel refuses to specify it's border it's not a real country. ALL other countries have specified their borders though some of course are disputed by two parties like Inida and Pakistan in the Kashmir region. I would prefer that Israel specify it's border at the 1967 green line as the U.N. demands so a 2 state solution could happen and everyone could live happily ever after, but as the party that is currently recognized a state in the conflict the onus in on Israel to specify it's borders.
So here is your challenge Zionist supporters where are Israel's borders and show me either documentation aside from vague biblical injunctions or a solid argument as to WHY that should be the case.
Notice the Zionists fear to touch this one, very instructive, I guess there is no talking point in the Hasbara book about where Israel's borders are eh? Afraid to go solo and do your own research apologists for Israel's well documented crimes against humanity?
24 hours now and still no Zionist shill will specify where Israel's border is, telling isn't it? I remember some other countries whose idea of a border was flexible, the USSR, Nazi Germany... SIGH!
Shucks, since you all are so forceful, I Googled Ralph Nader Investments, and found an article by Salon.com and others detailing Ralphy's money in Occidental Petroleum, Raytheon, and more. Real Ugly Reading. Google it. Pretty darn simple-'Ralph Nader Investments' dig Occidental, or did he dump it finally? What a HERO!
No no, you're far too modest - YOU are the hero.
I'd tap out too. If I was wrong. Do not feel bad.
Ralph's letter is meant for the American people, encouraging them to write to their Congressional representatives. While he addressed it to the war-criminal-in-chief, that's just a rhetorical device.
Despite all of the vitriol I read here about Ralph, his letter demonstrates his leadership skills. In this case, he is leading by example. It's worth spilling some ink and voicing your outrage to Washington too.
It's puzzling to read the Ralph hatred here. Maybe the hatred is a cover for shame. For instance, some leading Democratic Congressional representatives have voiced support for Israel's attacks, unlike Ralph.
You've got Nancy Pelosi cheering on collective punishment of the Palestinians. Last I heard, collective punishment is a war crime under international law.
President-Elect Obama can't be bothered to voice an opinion, it seems, even as people get blown to bits using U.S.-made Hellfire missiles. Wow, what a contrast to the $850 billion Wall Street bailout when Obama lept into action to help the fraudsters.
The Democratic Party loyalists are still afraid of Ralph, and this issue - criminial U.S. support for Israel as it commits crimes - is one reason why. The Democratic Party seems more loyal to the state of Israel than to its constituents at home.
Those still obsessed by the election challenge that Ralph posed should read this sad personal account of the DemGreens that mucked up the electoral proceedings of the Green Party, which seems hopelessly mired in bureaucracy.
-TIA
There's actually hardly any vitriol here against Nader - there's just old Arizona Joe, posting inane and repetitive smear after smear, taking up space and making it look as thought there is a bunch of hate for Nader.
Thanks, webwalk. You are correct. It's just one guy doing multiple posts. He seems to be upset because Nader invests in funds, and some of those funds purchase defense industry stocks. That's probably the case with most funds, actually, and it's a general problem - not particular to Nader.
I guess I was thinking of the past Nader hate I've seen in comments on Common Dreams.
I still ask generally, though: Why are elected Democratic Congressional reps not addressing the behavior of the state of Israel? Supposedly, U.S. weapons sold abroad are prohibited to be used for anything other than national self-defense. Why don't Congressional Democrats cut off aid and weapon sales to Israel, for starters? Sure, the answer is that that would cut the military industrial complex money flow. Still, the leadership on this issue by Congressional Democrats is the opposite of what their constituents want, and quite frankly, it's disgusting on the whole.
-TIA
Mr. Nader makes many excellent points. He speaks his conscience.
What if Israel was blockaded and economically sieged by land, air and sea? What if the children in Israel were suffering from hunger. What if Obama's daughters were trying to sleep in Gaza today ...
The media never mentions that the over 90% of the people of Gaza are not indigenous to Gaza. They originate from Ashkelon, Asdod, Beer Sheba. Their ancestors were ethnically cleansed through terror into this tiny strip that CNN referred to as the "Strip of Terror".
The plight of Palestinians is not much different than that of our own Native Americans. To justify our centuries long ethnic cleansing, we dehumanized and demonized them. This made our job easier. As a kid growing up, my favorite shows were Rin Tin Tin and other westerners where Indians were portrayed as animals who always screamed, enjoyed "scalping" white people, and raping white women. And we simply were exalted when the Blue Cavalry showed up to liquidate these "rapists and murderers".
We were trained to look at a static time-slot and removed from historical context. No where did we ever mention that we were committing a determined and calculated ethnic cleansing of an indigenous population under the pretext of fighting evil. The only good "Injun was a dead one"!
The Palestinian story is not much different. Palestinians today are the Native Americans of the Middle East. In fact with Hamas in power, it only makes it easier for Israel to do what it wants. There are the Masters and the Slaves. There is the Enslaver and the Enslaved. There is the Occupier and the Occupied. And it is not difficult to figure out who is who in this equation.
Building peace is far more difficult than making war. The 1993 handshake between Rabin and Arafat had brought hope to many on both sides. Israel has shed enough blood and brought about enough wanton destruction to make any future peace efforts futile. Maybe this is what Israel is trying to achieve.
Excellent post!
Yes, the people "of Gaza" were mostly FORCED there by "ethnic cleansing" during the creation of Israel, see Robert Fisk's article about this:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/12/30-13
And yes, the "mainstream" media NEVER point to this simple historical truth.
We need to keep pointing this out.
Mr Ralph Nader gained a tremendous Voice in America in the past couple of decades. Although he has a legion of rabid acolytes, they? you? are duped. He has splintered the 3rd party progressive movement. Nader is a Republican Tool. If not, ANYONE, tell me one heavy and progressive change for the common man he has made happen in the last 20 yrs......Whoa, drag, impossible huh?
He plays the stock market and he plays you.
Standing on a soap box in front of Fox News cameras slandering Obama don't qualify. But I know you Nader loving Obama Haters see this as the moral high ground....
Dogs in Heaven. Get Real.
Oh. Poppycock. So Nader plays the stock market. That makes him an "American", doesn't it. At least Obama would think so, no? As for getting real, that will happen on January 20, 2009, when Obama continues in the tradition of the Empire.
I notice I'm further insulted but not refuted factually one small whit, no attempt even.
For me, that is winning. Insult me, I care not. My allegations-simple facts, stand on their own. That is why I am not factually refuted regarding ANYTHING I've stated.
yeah, I read on nader's web site how he invented seat belts. Uh, gee, that is incorrect. Race car drivers used them prior, but who cares? He is a liar, and his followers are duped. Eat the seat-belt lie, one of Ralphy's favorites, but not the only one.
2000. A REPUBLICAN TOOL.
That's ok. I don't expect Naderites to counter with facts; facts require living in the real world, and neither Nader nor his acolytes care to do so.
I never thought much of him. His attackes on the Corvair notwithstanding, he's done damn little but posture, pout, piss and moan.
He's a running sore in the Progressive wing, keeping progressives from actually doing anything.
Patriots defend the constitution!
"I never thought much of him. His attackes on the Corvair notwithstanding, he's done damn little but posture, pout, piss and moan."
Except for a few little things like seat belts, airbags, clean air, clean water, and safer consumer products.
"He's a running sore in the Progressive wing, keeping progressives from actually doing anything."
What is Nader keeping you from doing?
"Patriots defend the constitution!"
That's exactly what Nader is doing.
foxwizard, gosh, you do have a way with words. I humbly submit my appreciation for your post. Though lacking your facility w/ the language, I am down avec your elucidations. Grazi.
What mindless tripe from an obvious paid troll of no substance.
Nader is arguably one of the finest Americans to serve unpaid for his country.
He tirelessly has gone to bat for the little guy bringing to light:
The FDA's ingredient food labeling
consumer rights
Improved Highway Safety
seat belts
air bags
anti-lock brakes
campaign reform
education initiatives
transparency in government
and the list would go on forever if I had time.
The poor guy has made absoulutely peanuts (a measely few mill) selling a few books; and has never sought to profit from his crusades.
He doesn't even own a car.
But "Redstate" Az southern joe who works for some sleezy smear group is bound and determined to blame Ralph for magellan's fund manager's choices in investing in defense companies that 99.9 percent of 401k retirement funds include without the knowledge of the account holder; since the funds buy and sell positions daily.
You mean after all your dirt digging on poor Ralph Nader, this is all you could come up with? And you can't even spin this turd into something believable?
Boy, you really are second-rate Joe.
Fortunately we are too smart and well read here on CD to believe azjoe's cup of crap. Good posting.
Yes hootowl, your intellectual and refined intellect shines with your words. Or, your 'cup of crap' reflects your heart, that which you project.
Complex? anais anin.
At least I'm not relentlessly digging for slime on a true American hero who has relentlessly fought on behalf of the poor and the environment Ralph Nader, like your useless ass azjoe. What good have you done fro anyone ever? Specific example please. Those that live in glass houses... And what you DO do cup of Joe? Dimocrapic party lobbyist, lawyer, corporate pr? Curious minds want to know...
I'll bite. You allege Ralphy "RELENTLESSLY FOUGHT ON BEHALF OF THE POOR" wow. I did not Know, especially having been gosh darn dirt poor these last three decades I'd a thought I would have known.....
Could you name just ONE gosh darn HUNGRY person he has fed? I feed hungry people, like who cares? but I do say, bring it on, since you you strive to be so arrogant......TiReD.
hootowl
Hello hootowl...you question my integrity and ask what I've done in your little world? Check Sir, I campaigned for Obama, Door to Door and for hours and hours on the phone in Nevada. Assault my heart, that is your right. I do hope though that Obama helps your world for the better.
Have a wonderful day Sir.
So that's it, that's the only good thing you've done for the world ever and you have the nerve to insult Ralph Nader, wow, just wow. Let me tell you about sleeping in a tree sit with rain and a 70 mph wind some time.
Here it is - Nader's 2008 public disclosure form:
http://www.buyingofthepresident.org/docs/warehouse/Nader_2008_Presidenti...
As of 2008, Nader has "between $50,001 and $100,000" invested in the Fidelity Magellan Fund, earning income of "between $1001 and $2,500" on this investment. (Same figures for his investment in Fidelty OTC Fund, which as near as i can find does not hold any Raytheon stock.)
The most recent listing for the Magellan fund:
http://content.members.fidelity.com/epropdfframe/0,,HRMNTH%7C316184100%7...
states that the Fund holds $97,600,000 of Raytheon stock, amounting to 0.507% of the Fund's holdings.
Quick math: 0.507% of Nader's $50 - $100,000 investment in Magellan, means Nader holds a few hundred dollars (out of his personal wealth of $3.8 million) in the Raytheon Corporation.
And you are correct, it is listed in his public disclosure form as "retirement" investments. Money this tireless worker is setting aside for his final years of relaxation, of course he will never relax, he is in his 70s now and still working hard.
AND: Throughout his entire professional life, Nader has GIVEN AWAY 50% of his pre-tax income, to the watchdog organizations that carry out the work he began, on all the issues you have highlighted.
AND: This gifting INCLUDES the investment income that he generates.
What an evil man.
webwalk
So you say Nader only has a HUNDRED GRAND in Cluster Bombs? Wow, I sure stand corrected. Only dozens of children are maimed via that money, not the scores I presumed.
Sorry I miscalculated the amount of death he invests in. Thank you again. What is a lousy tenth of a mill? How many bomblets in childrens hands explode for that amount of money? Enough?
Checkmate. You kind of walked into it. If you want to get it on, think more before you post against me and for death. Because if you defend maiming children, even just a hundred thousand dollars worth, it is on.
No, you are being purposely stupid.
Nader has less than $100,000 in the Magellan Fund.
The Magellan Fund has 0.507% of its money in the Raytheon Corporation.
So, as i wrote and you ignored in order to fling a big number at me: Nader has A FEW HUNDRED DOLLARS invested in the Raytheon Corporation.
You're not stupid, you're just obnoxious. Checkmate, fool.
webwalk, you said nader had "less than $100,000" in the Cluster bomb Fund, which means up to $100,000 in the world. So I quote you and you ridicule me. You ridicule the facts I quoted? Well Sir, they are yours.
Hey American Hero, I quoted you to yourself, and you laid into it....see any problem with that thinking????
Thanks, fool, for clarifying your desperation. You are free to desperately resort to whatever distortions turn you on.
You call me a "fool."
Thank You so Much. From you, A Zionist creep, I'll take it joyfully. Bring it on hater of Palestinians. Bring it on. Because I am Arab. Gotta a problem with that?
Indeed, Mr. Nader speaks loudly against cluster bombs. Any implication that he "supports" the use of cluster bombs is nothing less than a lie.
Ban the Bomblets!
By RALPH NADER
http://www.counterpunch.org/nader03172007.html
hoytdoublas
Nice loyalty. But you did not Google 'Ralph Nader Fidelity Magellan Cluster Bombs!' Hey, no sweat! I would not either if he was my HERO! My balloon would get punctured. Keep your belief system safe. But if I may ask, have you Googled those keywords? Analyzed the data?
Here it is - Nader's 2008 public disclosure form:
http://www.buyingofthepresident.org/docs/warehouse/Nader_2008_Presidenti...
As of 2008, Nader has "between $50,001 and $100,000" invested in the Fidelity Magellan Fund, earning income of "between $1001 and $2,500" on this investment. (Same figures for his investment in Fidelty OTC Fund, which as near as i can find does not hold any Raytheon stock.)
The most recent listing for the Magellan fund:
http://content.members.fidelity.com/epropdfframe/0,,HRMNTH%7C316184100%7...
states that the Fund holds $97,600,000 of Raytheon stock, amounting to 0.507% of the Fund's holdings.
Quick math: 0.507% of Nader's $50 - $100,000 investment in Magellan, means Nader holds a few hundred dollars (out of his personal wealth of $3.8 million) in the Raytheon Corporation.
Thanks so much for bringing this to our attention.
hey ralphie,
welcome back! instead of throwing gasoline on an already raging fire, how about a bit of discussion on the tva catastrophe, the disappearance of polar ice (thus the inhabitants of that region), the ongoing drought in the southwestern u.s., the soon to be waged water wars, the pilfering of billions of dollars??? ralph? ralph? heckuva job, ralphie.
Welcome back distractionary Zionist shills, get tired of the Hasbara scripted talking points so soon?
All my respect Hootowl, I like to get it on too, we just got to chill a bit. Best Wishes.
Hey Ralph,
Don't waste your keystrokes on the AWOL bushchimp. He probably can't read anyway; instead he just passively signs everything Dick Vader slides under his nose.
Only nineteen more days of this insanity and we retire the First "Son-of-a-President" to the dustbin of imfamous history!
Wow, we survived our first idiot president! Thank the Stars for term limits!
NO MORE NEPOTISM IN AMERICAN POLITICS!
Hey Ralph,
Don't waste your keystrokes on the AWOL bushchimp. He probably can't read anyway; instead he just passively signs everything Dick Vader slides under his nose.
Only nineteen more days of this insanity and we retire the First "Son-of-a-President" to the dustbin of imfamous history!
Wow, we survived our first idiot president! Thank the Stars for term limits!
NO MORE NEPOTISM IN AMERICAN POLITICS!
Letter to Bush? "there is only one president (AKA God) at a time" & Bush is it.
Better to shove it into a crack into the West Wall where the sun never shines.
Our Corporate Fascists will never come to their senses.
Good for Mr. Nader, ever speaking truth to power.
PS: The anti-Nader shibboleth that seeks to "out" Ralph as a venal, hypocritical crypto-plutocrat and silent partner in international weapons trade is on a par with Lyndon LaRouche's persistent claim that Queen Elizabeth II masterminds the international drug trade.
Except that I HAVE had occasional qualms about Her Majesty.
· Yr Obd't Servant
Well done Ralph Nader!
Yes, hold Bush accountable, he's the key one for us in the United States of America!
Yes, quote Eisenhower!
Yes, it's about cowardice! And lack of leadership!
Yes, speak "the rude truth."
What is Nader doing back on CD?
I'd noticed since the election Counterpunch was publishing a lot of his articles, but none on CD.
I thought they were done with him
I guess that was just wishful thinking...
FAR better Ralph than a Joe Lieberman wing of the Dimocrapic party Zionist apologist shill like yourself. More Ralph less Hasbara please! Thanks...
I'm delighted to have him back!
I suspect there was some kind of "palace revolt" up there in Maine, because it appears that CD's censorship of critics of Obama and supporters of Nader has stopped.
---USAn---
USAn, I wonder if the fundraising isn't going as well as hoped, and somebody up there finally figured out that permanently banning scads of regular visitors in one horrendous fell swoop might generate, er, a bit of ill-will and cessation of support from the banned.
They ought to consider amnesty-- a universal unbanning-- as a show of good faith. Just sayin'.
· Yr Obd't Servant
Now if we can just get the comments back on the page, not hidden where you need to click to read them...
No, no, no... I think the hidden comments is WHY they allow more freewheeling free speech now, out of sight out of mind, wouldn't want to scare the big yuppie "liberal" contributors by SEEING directly words like "general strike," "anti Zionist," and pro Green party right?
I am willing to trade a click to view the comments to be able to say "general strike" for which I was banned under the old system.
It’s instructive to look at the Hamas Covenant, to see how amenable Hamas may be to negotiations with Israel and the West. From the Preamble: “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.” From Article 13: “[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement ... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam ... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.”
Hamas looking for peace? No, looking for useful idiots in the west and even Israel is more like it.
Seems to me that Israels days are numbered. They are morally bankrupt and a third world power without the U.S. foolishly emboldening them. Israel will soon become the world's largest suicide nuclear bomber as the world finally calls their bluff. Bluto, shouldn't you be over there fighting? Or, aren't you a chosen one?
It's to our nation's detriment that the duopoly has rigged the electoral deck to prohibit third party candidates to gain any real traction in Amerika. As usual, Nader is exactly right in his analysis in his letter to Bush.
The letter should be addressed to President-elect Barack Obama as well. His seeming unquestioning support of Isreal shows he has been bought off by AIPAC.
Our nation has been on the wrong track since World War II, and Obama offers little hope for real and substantial change, his mantra about change we can believe in notwithstanding.
Term limits and publicly financed elections NOW.