Must everything be for fucking profit?

The cost of development for these vaccines is probably far in excess of the profit. If you think this is some drug company trying to make money check the statistics for the 1918 flu epidemic.

Total deaths were estimated at ≈50 million (5–7) and were arguably as high as 100 million (7).

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol12no01/05-0979.htm

The conditions of War and the shipping of Troops and goods of World War One caused the Spanish Flu more than anything known. Over 2 percent of the USA population died. It is still a mystery virus and it ended suddenly with no vaccine.
http://virus.stanford.edu/uda/

Since it seems to be most predominant in young people and children....I don't know what to say.

Because parents will no doubt be guilt tripped into vaccinating their kids. It could even be seen as child neglect to not innoculate.

That is an extrememe scenario. I know. But a possible one. And the fact that it is brand new and not really human tested. It is a big risk at best.

Market driven. No doubt. Snake oil? Who knows?

The article is sloppy with lots of typos and some bad grammar. The typos surprise me because ABC News is supposed to at least give the appearance of being authoritative.

Notice, too, the downplaying of the autism issue:

"Although there has been little evidence to support their claim, detractors -- including the comedian Jim Carey -- believe that vaccines are at least partly to blame for the sharp rise in autism in recent decades."
Why not mention Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who has been writing about the mercury-thimerosal/autism hypothesis for years, instead of a comedian? And since they brought it up, why couldn't ABC tell us whether this vaccine contains thimerosal?

Hey, how about a vaccine for a non-existent illness? Millions could receive it, they wouldn't get sick, and, voila! see, we kept you well. Sort of like a New Cold War, pun intended. We kept you from being "invaded" by the Red Plague.

Really sloppy journalism, people.

-30-

Just get yer dam vaccine! Right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMqYlnAiIUU

Was the Swine Flu pandemic ... manufactured?

I read that Germany is giving one vaccine to the public and another vaccine to their army. And I believe the vaccines we're getting do contain thimerosol. Who knows what is in the German army vaccines? The Americans are far more cavalier about treating our cannon fodder as guinea pigs.

readytotransform, it's not that children and young people are more likely to catch the swine flu, but more likely to die. I read that the flu itself is not particularly virulent, but it does weaken the immune system, and the great majority of deaths are occurring from secondary infections. So it's important that if people start to recover, and then fever and symptoms return to immediately see a health care professional. That explanation would fit in with the victims being young. Children are fragile; they can go downhill very fast. Young adults are frequently uninsured, and may well delay getting treatment until they are too sick to recover. As is often the case with meningitis (although meningitis is often a very fast moving disease). It was also suggested that seniors, with years of exposure to flu viruses, may have partial immunity. But they also have Medicare and probably wouldn't wait to see a doctor.

I don't know whether the govt is stupid or in cahoots with the drug industry or both. I've certainly heard some amazingly ignorant statements from elected officials on various topics.

When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson

It would have been nice if they had encouraged people to make sure to ask if the vacine has thimerosal in it, but we must do it ourselves.

I haven’t decided if I am going to take it. So far work hasn’t said anything about if we will be required to take it, but who knows they may say something at the next inservice this month. I know one thing if I have to take it in order to keep my job I am going to make sure to ask if it has thimerosal in it and make sure that they give me one that doesn’t have it in the vacine. Let’s just hope that they are honest and don’t say it doesn’t have thimerosal in it when it really does.

You know, In all my 60 years I've never have had a flu shot and never will. Let 'em try to make me. However, I just this morning was talking with a co-worker about her grandbaby. She's around 18 months old. Seems she was ok one minute and the next her fever spiked so high that she turned blue from lack of oxygen. Called the squad and sent her to hospital. Diagnosis - swine flu. But she was back home that night. She's now at home with her family...everybody's quarantined. Got me to worrying about my own little 2 year old granddaughter.

What in the world was that, you suppose? Was it really swine flu? If so, that's scary. I told my daughter that I don't think it's a good idea to give babies and toddlers flu shots, not to mention anyone else. But, she's gonna listen to her pediatrician, I know.

Baxter Pharmaceuticals is responsible for making a lot of the Vaccines available in the USA.

Just over a year ago they "Mistakenly" manufactured and shipped a vaccine that included the LIVE bird flu virus.

Had this been issued to the public MILLIONS of people would have died. Fortunately researchers in a Czech lab discovered its nature before it was used.

Baxter was also responsible for Contaminated Blood Thinner Heparin and for the issue of contaminated Blood Plasma which lead to many thousands of people being exposed to HIV.

Americans should NOT be concerned however as the United States Government works diligently to ensure firms like Baxter are immune from lawsuits via Legislation.

To trisha---

You write:

"She's around 18 months old. Seems she was ok one minute and the next her fever spiked so high that she turned blue from lack of oxygen. Called the squad and sent her to hospital. Diagnosis - swine flu. But she was back home that night. She's now at home with her family...everybody's quarantined."

Most hospitals in the US are not equipped to actually "diagnose" swine flu; the "diagnosis" in the instant case was most likely observation of symptoms as opposed to microscopic or DNA structure or blood chemistry or antibody tests.

You write:

"Seems she was ok one minute and the next her fever spiked so high that she turned blue from lack of oxygen."
Simultaneous conditions while it is unlikely that the fever "caused" her to turn blue from lack of oxygen. I suspect a transient allergic reaction given your description, but as I have no idea what treatment she received at the hospital that enabled her being back home so quickly (if treatment is what did that...they probably put her on oxygen) this is just speculation on my part. Did they check her stool?

Also, if this was swine flu, any close relatives showing any symptoms? Quarantined how?

Most medical personnel are just as susceptible to Media-induced mass hysteria as is the general population, but worse, because they think of themselves as "professionals," their hysteria is self-reinforcing. Bill from the hospital for EMS and treatment will probably be in excess of $2,000. Good luck with that. I hope the bill doesn't include a swine flu vaccine shot, because if you already got that flu the shot is sort of worse than useless...

***
Moore---

You seem to have done some serious research here but it needs to be better organized in terms of providing sources and organizing the quotes.

Regarding the live polio vaccine you write:

"Also connected to these contaminants in the vaccines is the risk of cancers years later. Most are familiar with the contamination of both the live polio vaccine (OPV) and inactivated vaccine (IPV) with SV-40 oncogenic virus. As far back as 1959, Dr. Bernice Eddy proved that SV-40 was oncogenic."

This is news to me! I'm not disputing it, but my memory is that the big issue with the Sabin attenuated live virus vaccine back in the mid 1950s was that the Soviets had bought into it big-time and did massive vaccinations, but some batches caused polio because, as it turned out, the labs manufacturing the vaccine had not sufficiently attenuated (i.e., disabled) the virus. This scared the U.S.(and others) into going for the theoretically less effective Salk dead-virus vaccine. OTOH, while I have heard of Dr. Bernice Eddy although cannot recall why, my entire immediate family got the Sabin attenuated sugar cubes directly from Sabin and since then my father died of cancer, my mother was a breast cancer survivor and my younger sister died of lung cancer, while I have no idea if there is any correlation there as they were all heavy smokers (for example) and these were at least three distinctly different cancers.

Finally, I suspect that part of the hype here is because the guvment just paid out some billions to Big Pharma for two vaccines (aerosol and injectible) that may turn out to be worse than useless, so if people don't clamor for them and millions of doses rot unused, there will be some criticism, eh?

Certainly, the entire field of vaccines has become hopelessly politicized and is now profit-driven. Back in the three decades surrounding and including WWII, most people who studied this stuff gave little consideration to profit. They were scientists seeking serious solutions to seemingly intractable problems of disease. Merck and Eli Lilly et al were then "respectable" companies, not parasites on television telling people they should ask their doctors to prescribe feel-good drugs, like Viagra (covered by how many insurance policies?)
When I was a kid in the early 1950s I heard innumerable heated arguments between my father the immunologist and my maternal aunt who owned a rabbit-based pregnancy-testing lab about the SCIENCE of fighting polio. They knew it would require a vaccine. Even back then they knew antibiotics don't kill viruses; they may be useful in suppressing post-viral infections. Back then people were seeking cures, not profits.

From the evidence I've seen, our public health system has made nearly zero progress since then. Quite the contrary, we continue to use antibiotics in farm animals to fatten them up for market, thus increasing the mutation rate of pathogen resistance to them despite EVERYTHING that public health experts tell us. Ironically, our beef cattle may be healthier than the people who eat them (but then there is Mad Cow Disease, Eh!). In the past half century, on this score at least, we have not progressed; we've regressed. How's this bumper sticker: "Public Health is Socialism." Could that make people think? Or how about "Quarantine the Healthy"?

Trisha, you still there? I sure hope so.

Egad. Is this a great nation or what?

-30-

OleMan River:

You are correct about the diagnosis. After googling tests for swine flu, I discovered it takes 6-9 days for a lab test. So, the hospital was probably diagnosing by observing her symptoms, as you said. They just gave her oxygen. As far as anyone else in the household with symptoms... NOPE. The father works in my department here at work and he is not allowed back until the nurse gives him the OK. Nurse "Ratchet" sent 2 people home last week because she said they had what she determined as symptoms. Each department has been given antibacterial wipes and that hand sanitizer crap. Told to cover your cough with your sleeve and throw tissues in trash right away. I guess they're afraid someone will croak and they'll lose a penny.(I work for a BIG corporation).

There are many other risks of vaccines besides autism in children. They are maid of poisonous chemicals and can cause neurological problems and autoimmune diseases. Also, I don't think we should be thinking of about a pandemic in terms of how much it will cost. What about people DYING?
This article wasn't edited particularly well either.

There are many other risks of vaccines besides autism in children. They are maid of poisonous chemicals and can cause neurological problems and autoimmune diseases. Also, I don't think we should be thinking of about a pandemic in terms of how much it will cost. What about people DYING?
This article wasn't edited particularly well either.

My Mac fades out after too much time on CD, so I have to quit the Browser and start over, thus lost an earlier thread that is related to this topic, so I will attempt to post it here:

Ya know, Sioux Rose, at first I found your attack on Texas Aggie a bit over the line when you accused her of being "authoritarian," so after my upper tooth extraction earlier today I went back and read his/her comments and came up with this:

He/she wrote:

"You left out some significant parts of your polio story, namely that the Salk vaccine came first and it was a few years before Sabin developed a live virus vaccine. By that time, the laws about vaccine use were in place."

This is an authoritarian attack on my earlier post on the Salk/Sabin polio vaccine issue in the 1950s. He/she is accusing me of deception:

"You left out some significant parts of your polio story,..."

I could not leave out what I did not know, by definition.

Then I googled Sabin and read some long articles at Wikipedia, so here is what I have found so far:

* I remember being told that the reason the Sabin vaccine was not being used in the US in the late 50s was that it had disastified in the USSR due to a bad batch that did not sufficiently attenuate the live virus, thus causing polio. So far, I have found no evidence of this allegation on-line. Either I was misled half a century ago when I was in high school or this history has yet to be written. I would be part of it.

* It is a near-certainty that I and my family received the Sabin sugar-cube vaccine prior to its having been made legal. In other words, my father the biological researcher was so "certain" of the superiority of the Sabin vaccine over the Salk dead-virus vaccine that he was willing to make me---all of us---guinea pigs in service to Science. I do recall my father's statement that the Salk vaccine would require a booster shot while the Sabin vaccine would not. What I have read so far on Wiki would seem to support that view from a half century ago.

* It has been decades since I studied polio. It turns out that Texas Aggie may have a point regarding "wild" polio as a serious issue, while it turns out that polio vaccinations in Africa may be related to HIV. Texas A's presentation of the complications of things such as viral fragments found in vaccines probably will turn out to be self-defeating to those advocating vaccinations. Not because vaccination is inherently harmful, but because, as with nuclear power, humans tend to be really sloppy, esp. in the Capitalist system, where cutting corners increases profits.

"I wrote earlier that this issue of vaccinations, pertinent now to swine flu rather than polio, is too politicized. Thus, for example, Texas A accuses me of failing to distinguish between viral attacks and non-viral attacks when I brought up Typhoid Mary. He/she implies that I fail to distinguish between viral and germ attacks, while in fact vaccines exist for both. I was merely calling on an historical metaphor. Meanwhile, it is a truism that there may be more than one disease vector for an invasion by any given organism, until it is shown otherwise. Show me the evidence that persons vaccinated for virals cannot remain carriers.

Methinks you are correct, Sioux Rose. Methinks you sensed an authoritarian presence. Meanwhile, I think Texas A is a female who embraces Mars. You have invested in this thread. I hope you are still here and will comment. Today, the Sabin vaccine variants---the live virus---are the most used worldwide. Meanwhile, Texas A was right: the Salk vaccine was 1955; the Sabin vaccine 1958. I had not known that.

-30-

Damn it, Cee Miracles, it's Ft. Detrick!

-30-

BeForKids whom I have always respected, wrote:

"readytotransform, it's not that children and young people are more likely to catch the swine flu, but more likely to die. I read that the flu itself is not particularly virulent, but it does weaken the immune system, and the great majority of deaths are occurring from secondary infections. So it's important that if people start to recover, and then fever and symptoms return to immediately see a health care professional. That explanation would fit in with the victims being young. Children are fragile; they can go downhill very fast. Young adults are frequently uninsured, and may well delay getting treatment until they are too sick to recover. As is often the case with meningitis (although meningitis is often a very fast moving disease). It was also suggested that seniors, with years of exposure to flu viruses, may have partial immunity. But they also have Medicare and probably wouldn't wait to see a doctor."

I am 66. I think I am just recovering from some variant of a flu (virus). I experienced, literally, projectile diarrhea while eating almost nothing for days at a time. I have Medicare A and B and I haven't seen a doctor in at least 15 years. During this period of illness I isolated myself and bought food only as necessary and ate large quantities of Vitamin C. Now I'm told by my dentist that everything Linus Pauling wrote about Vitamin C is wrong! This is truly maddening because I've been sticking to his ideas for decades and so far I'm fairly healthy. Except when I disregard his admonition and smoke tobacco. (That is another extremely complex subject, perhaps to be addressed later...)

Now that I think I have already been infected, why would I want a government vaccine: I have my own antibodies. I don't need theirs. This is serious business. Let's get the CIA out of the health-care biz. We need a different way to address health care. Where is Laurie Garrett when we need her?

-30-

See http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2009/1021/1224257146987.html?digest=1 for info on GlaxoSmithKline vaccine.