Twitter
StumbleUpon
Facebook
Delicious
Digg
Newsvine
Google
Yahoo
TechnoratiBailout Isn't Just For Wall Street Anymore
WASHINGTON - After a bruising battle to get it through a doubting Congress, the Bush administration's $700 billion Wall Street rescue plan to purchase distressed mortgages and other bad assets has morphed into something else entirely.
Today the Emergency Economic Stabilization Plan, signed by President Bush on Oct. 3, involves the government taking direct equity stakes in banks, and at least one bank used the money to buy a rival. The taxpayer money's also expected to be used to buy stakes in life insurance companies, and may soon even go to help two struggling Detroit automakers merge.
In short, what once was disparagingly referred to as bailout for Wall Street now looks like a broader bailout of all sorts of troubled businesses. Some lawmakers and outside analysts question whether that's serving the public interest as intended - or whether it's becoming a taxpayer-financed giveaway to favored firms.
"I could say I told you so," said Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, who helped lead a revolt against GOP leaders and sunk the $700 billion plan on its first pass. "It was so open-ended and we put so little accountability into it, they can basically do whatever they want to with the money."
Lawmakers in both parties worried when the Treasury Department announced on Oct. 14 that $250 billion of the $700 billion plan would be used to inject cash directly into troubled banks. That pushed Treasury's previous emphasis on purchasing troubled mortgage assets to the back burner.
Some $125 billion was used to take equity stakes in the nine largest U.S. banks, and now lenders across the nation can ask, through Nov. 14, for more. At least a dozen other banks have done so.
In an interview with McClatchy, Massachusetts Rep. Barney Frank, the House Financial Services Committee chairman, who shepherded the legislation through Congress, disagreed that the plan has morphed beyond its original intent.
"Buying equity was always in the plan," he insisted. Still, he said he'd hold a Nov. 18 hearing to look at some of the developments that are troubling other lawmakers.
Among them is the fact that Pittsburgh-based PNC Financial Services used some of its $7.7 billion in taxpayer money to purchase Cleveland-based lender National City for $5.8 billion on Oct. 24.
That raised a question: Did the taxpayer money spur more lending, as the plan was intended to do, or did it just let one strong bank, PNC, get stronger by absorbing a weaker rival?
Some experts think that's just fine.
"I think it is very positive if it's a healthy bank buying a weak bank, and it's an all-stock deal," said Bert Ely, an expert on banking regulation. PNC's purchase of National City was in the taxpayer interest because it promoted an orderly and needed consolidation in the banking sector, he said.
However, on the same day as the PNC deal, the American Council of Life Insurers confirmed that Treasury was considering giving cash to some big insurance companies whose failure could pose risks to global finance.
"The purpose (of the rescue plan) is not to sell life insurance policies," Frank acknowledged, noting that Treasury hadn't told him that it might take stakes in insurers, too.
Yet another concern is that banks that receive cash from the government were allowed to continue to pay dividends to shareholders. That raises the prospect that taxpayer money will be funneled not to new lending but to well-heeled investors who buy bank stocks.
That's unlikely, the Bush administration insists.
Ed Lazear, the chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, said on Thursday that he isn't worried that banks will use taxpayer money to pay shareholders because it's in their own interest to lend.
"So if they take that money and simply pay interest on it or pay dividends on it and don't lend it out and make money themselves, that's not a very good position for them to be in," he said.
Now, in perhaps the bailout's strangest twist, reports this week said that negotiations to merge General Motors and Chrysler hang on the government providing cash injections into the carmakers' auto-financing arms. For that to work though, the auto-finance arms first must convert themselves into commercial banks to be eligible for taxpayer loans.
It's all a far cry from Treasury's sales pitch of September - that the rescue plan would provide a two-for-one, rescuing banks and homeowners in one fell swoop.
"It really highlights that if you are not working from a set of core principles, you can drift. And this rescue package has drifted," said Vincent Reinhart, a former top Federal Reserve director from 2001 to 2007 and now a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative research group.
John Coffee, a law professor at Columbia University in New York and adviser to Wall Street regulators, said the government missed an opportunity by taking equity stakes in banks without attaching requirements that they use the bailout funds for new loans to spur the economy.
"If we could do this all over again . . . you could have conditioned the loan (plan) on how the proceeds could be used," he said. "Some banks are still hoarding the money . . . and others simply are not interested in lending in areas where they classically lent, like construction lending, because they see a major recession coming. . . .
"Before this is over that we're going to have casinos in Las Vegas reconstituting themselves as bank holding companies" and applying for government loans, Coffee warned.
Other experts are more forgiving.
"I think Treasury's thought is that whatever risk they may run by creating confusion about the program is outweighed by the risk of failing to plug the holes in the financial dike, on a case by case basis, as they seem to be emerging. This is not an unreasonable judgment," said Robert Litan, an expert on regulation and banking for the Brookings Institution, a center-left policy research center.
There is no playbook for getting out of financial crisis like the current one, he said.
"This is like the New Deal on speed, or on Internet time. Treasury is trying to do its best to stop each potential crisis as it pops up," Litan said. "Another metaphor, Treasury's decision-making reminds me of 'whack a mole.'"
74 Comments so far
Show AllThere is no surprise in these corrupt companies using our Bailout tax dollars to pay for executive bonuses, junkets, and to buy each other out. No surprise at all. That's what dishonest people do; what people not held accountable do. They've learned that most Americans won't act to stop it. They're not going to jail and they know it.
So how do we start stopping it?
We start by "un-electing" those Senators and Representatives who voted "yes" for the Bailout. (It doesn't matter their party!) The Constituent Response Team has put together a Bailout Vote Map ( http://www.constituentresponse.com/congress ) that makes it easy to find out how your Senators and Representatives voted. Check it out -- and then tell all your family and friends about it, so they can find out how their Representative and Senators voted before they cast their ballot on Tuesday.
It would be good if people learned what the government has learned. They surely know how to manipulate the masses. Isn't about time we changed this for ourselves peacefully?
http://www.economy-and-the-law-of-attraction.com/Abe_On_World_Financ.htm...
@ Cosmobilly:
You have writ many very fine things above!
~ just one of which:
"We are the vehicle, the conduit of God's will. If it is to be, it will be up to us. Only when WE learn to identify the beast for who/what it is, and learn how to construct our collective power in the appropriate way and to un-deceive and re-inform the multitudes, will true change take place.
This will be achieved more through a spiritual (not religious) awakening and a raised consciousness that transcends material-based wealth and power, which in turn will need to be manifested into our Law and our social infrastructure. "
--well done!
Luv ya! :)
xx
I think there has already been an awakening. I mean how many people supported the bailout? You are right we are the conduit of God's will, isn't about time we use it? There is nothing wrong with prosperity what matters is how prosperity is gained! Prosperity doesn't come about by being squandered. It doesn't come at the expense of another.
http://www.economy-and-the-law-of-attraction.com/Abe_On_World_Financ.htm...
Bailout is an euphemism for robbery. So from now on when someone robs the local bank I guess we should call it a bank bailout!
"New deal" someone said, but faster, in the article. Nah, Reaganomics on stereoids. More and more and more floating up. The Bail Out bill killed the New Deal, Kucinich said on "Building Bridges", WBAI wbai.org 99.5FM radio, NYC about two Mondays ago.
It's all a huge scam. They just GAVE $213B to Umqua Bank in Oregon (owned by major clearcutting family, and which had been doing just fine). In exchange, taxpayers supposedly get $52B in equity. Why only $52B???
The CEO says they'll be able to use it to buy out troubled banks. Why should he and the Umqua stockholders be selected to be enriched? Why not give the money at least to the troubled banks??? Or better yet, why not give the money to the mortgagees??
Or even better, how about a free market and letting the banks fails and then no more mortgages for those who were in debt to the failed banks? Wouldn't that be the best for the economy? No more huge payments for millions of people, we could save and spend.
Carol
All of what is happening is no good there are no words to express what is going on all we can do is PRAY.
MAY GOD BLESS US ALL FOR ONLY HE WILL GET US OUT OF ALL THIS AND THAT IS A WAY IT IS!!!
As in divine intervention? NOT.
We are the vehicle, the conduit of God's will. If it is to be, it will be up to us. Only when WE learn to identify the beast for who/what it is, and learn how to construct our collective power in the appropriate way and to un-deceive and re-inform the multitudes, will true change take place. This will be achieved more through a spiritual (not religious) awakening and a raised consciousness that transcends material-based wealth and power, which in turn will need to be manifested into our Law and our social infrastructure. It is a vital and necessary step in human evolution, which we will likely not achieve until after considerable more growing pain. We must endure, learn and grow through this. That is the only way - in other words, wouldn't God surely remind you that if you give a man a fish, he eats for a day, but teach him how to fish, he eats for a lifetime?
Suggested readings:
The Creature from Jekyll Island - 21st printing
Tragedy and Hope
.Teach him that the Democratic Party is pretty damn fishy and we might become a better nation!
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Meanwhile, atheists can send messages to their Representatives while voting.
Or, you could stop waiting on politicians or dieties to get you out of this and get off your rear and start working.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
...Meanwhile, our lovely bright star, -Ms Melanie Klein- gives further insight into George 'Calamity Jane' Bush's breathtaking insanity. - here's the link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/31/useconomy-banking
As ever more wheels fall off the careering idiot's Presidential blunder-bus, the dying Bushie bedlamites and troglodytes still aim to do as they have always done: Rob the poor, and hand obscene amounts of riches to their rotting bedfellows.
Satan's-little-helpers (the neocons) don't understand that on the larger scale of things, every ounce of this Judas silver will come back to haunt them for an eternity.
Karma is no respecter of man-made pomp and titles, and will ensure George 'War-thog' Bush & Co, will be washing dishes and cleaning the toilets out back of Hell's kitchen for many a long year...
An (albeit imperfect) Obama will apparently try to clean up some of the disgusting messes made by those ghouls who at present haunt the Gray House. ~ Phew, -whadda job, cleaning that stench from America's Augean Stables...
I envy him not!
But at least he will have a better chance than that decrepit old fool John Inane, and his feral trophy, - Ms Sarah Polecat.
_________________________________
Some here at C-D argue that Obama isn't the man for the job and wish for a 3rd party candidate. ~ Yup, I would've preferred soul-imbued Dennis Kucinich myself!
~ But when you are trying to (analogously) steer a huge ship into dock, it takes a lot of time, -no over-hasty movements are sensible / possible.
The move from 'Here' (this current desolate neocon mess) to 'There' (what we progressives would mainly like to see occur) is a damnably slow and frustrating process!
Like it or not, we have to move the American 'ship' forwards with *all* folk on board, - and that includes the poor wee Foxed-duped things who lack the requisite IQ to be able to distinguish between diabolical neocon lies and a hole in the floor.
So a 'middleman' (or woman!) is called for, - someone who can appeal for support from all but the most dead-headed, dead-hearted individuals.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Americans differ so widely: from the highly creative and intelligent thinkers, through to those who can only viscerally 'react', with a tricolor rag and a Kluxian noose in each hairy paw.
It takes a special and very perceptive kind of person to appeal to such a wide spectrum, but only one thus gifted can ever hope to turn America around and move it forward, and en route try to heal multifarious social rifts and cure various (self-inflicted) international wounds.
The tyro Obama is just one small step on the ladder of ascent. Others will come after him, and eventually the USA can get to where it is *supposed* to be, viz: a genuinely _civilised_ country, embodying all the good principles we treasure, -those often discussed here in our 'common dream'.
Happily, [know it or not] 'the Gods' broadly agree with our Progressive outlook! I feel sure there are 'unseen hands' at work who have helped tweak the various factors which have helped the noxious neocon's downfall.
Now, -under President Obama, a few 'uplifting times' can begin to roll, and we can begin anew with the turfing-out of the ship of fools, a few of whom were mentioned in Kevin G. Hall's report above.
~~ Onwards and upward m'dears! :)
U-C-D
xx
(Ps: to the clamorous '3rd party' fans speaking of "pabulum", - as mentioned in previous posts of late, did we mean pabulum, or *pablum* here?) ;)
Did you not notice that Obama played a big role in helping to create this mess? That he fully approved of letting Paulsen and Bush give away $800 billion of our money in any way that he choses to do so? That Obama flew back to DC specifically to not only vote for this but to twist other arms to make sure it passed? That he's since been saying all sorts of nice things about Paulsen and how wonderful he is?
Apparently the key to being an Obama supporter is not paying any attention to what he really does.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
Where I disagree the most is that we have to have some bottom lines: some point where we say even if this candidate is better than that candidate, we still can't vote for either of them because they support endless wars, corporate economic policies such as this bailout, and other issues. The fact that so many well-intentioned people have no ethical bottom line is mightily distressing. What do they have to do to lose your vote? http://www.counterpunch.com/gonzalez10292008.html
wow...tks progresiveparty for the link, all the primary issues thoughtfully explained, in depth, & documented by Matt Gonzalez Independent candidate for Vice President.
wild;)
progressiveparty,
What do "they" have to do? NO, NO, NO - it is what do YOU have to do!?!?
How can it be made more obvious? UCD correctly put it into perspective and yet you still flail against reality to assert what is at this time merely a hopeful vision. Can't you 3rd party posters figure out that the majority of folks simply disagree with you? It may be your thinking that they are all stupid, but maybe they think the same of you! As the old cliche goes, Rome wasn't built in a day. You must continue to fight and argue for your cause, but don't expect a simple wave of your hand and a few words to change the tide all in one fell swoop.
The first thing you need to figure out is that there is an entire system of power in place that needs changed before any one man can possibly make a sudden dramatic difference. The second thing you need to learn is how to take baby steps and set upon creating a new vision, a new direction, a new and uplifting momentum. This you will need to do through the identification, definition and promotion of viable proposals that excite and rally common folks, and which then can be used as a metric, a litmus test that helps identify true crusaders from false pretenders. (By my litmus tests, even most 3rd party candidates fail.) Finally, you need to realize that the power lies in our becoming and being wholly united. When WE speak with one enduring and pragmatic voice then the power will belong to us. That will scare the current wealth and power mongers more than anyone can imagine, far far more than acting as a bunch of idiots who can't get their shit together for anything, always busy bickering amongst themselves.
I know and agree that some reasonably decent 3rd party candidates/idealogies do exist, but you aren't looking at their ability to actually be effective. Sure, they may be of the right mind but that is not enough. You will be throwing them into the bull pit and they will get devoured. You need at this time a person that can play ball, and with whom the current forces will also play.
For others, do not expect Obama to make much more than small token changes. The current power structure will not permit that, even if he is actually the instrument of change you want to believe. At best his election will be but a small hopeful step.
For everyone, we must realize that we have a nearly insurmountable challenge before us. We will need to find the causes that unite us, to endeavor to give those causes vigor and purpose, to bring forth a formidable form of power that cannot be swayed from its ultimate objective - to unite humanity for the sake of our collective well-being, and the sake of our home planet.
Ours is a mission, a process that must be undertaken but which cannot be simply wished into place. There is no certain identifiable end, but rather "it" must exist as a common purpose and set of guiding principles. The history of our nation exists as a truly great example, in that we united this country under a common vision, with a core set of guiding principles. But then we forgot, and allowed our common vision to be eroded away. We succumbed to our weaknesses, gave power to the undeserving and allowed ourselves to be deluded. That is what must change first and foremost. We must first deal with core issues or we will indeed swing like fickle idiots from one thing or candidate to the next, ad nauseam. And we will continue to serve the will of the power and wealth mongers of the world.
Facts are stubborn things indeed.
"I know and agree that some reasonably decent 3rd party candidates/idealogies do exist, but you aren't looking at their ability to actually be effective."
Nader effectively gave the public a choice, on the ballot 45 states. Nader effectively set the Guiness World Record, recently stump speeching 21+ speeches in 24hrs (your Rep/Demo candidates wouldn't even think of that one!). Nader effectively argues & promotes various issues, publishing extensively for all to read, in depth arguments & warnings about important issues.
Just how effective have the Republican/Democrats been?
WAR....yes
TORTURE....yes
$700b swindle....yes
record campaign spending....yes
So vote for 'the circus' that buy the elections, or vote Nader who has honorably earned his way, to the top.
wild;)
.Facts are stubborn lack of optimism is worse.
I believe that only thirty percent of the colonialists supported the American Revolution, most of the wealthy fled to Canada.
When you say a majority of the people do not agree with third party or independent voters you show the need for the continued education of that majority, not the need to surrender ones principles and vote for a candidate and a party that does not truly represent ones wishes for this nations course.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, its the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead
Also, we arent bickering among ourselves, we seem to be responding to those folks lacking vision or politeness who castigate our beliefs without offering one single good reason to vote for a democrat other than he or she can win...who cares if that winning represents a victory for the status quo?
You correctly assess the nature of the battle, one which is against a huge mechanism in place for a very long time and one the controls the press as well as the government. Then you offer no realistic methodology for winning that battle. In opposition to that nothing those who support Nader or McKinney offer a differing path, one that will certainly not lead to victory next week, but one that will, eventually, lead there. You, on the other hand, offer only voting for a party that has repeatedly betrayed you, one that has sold itself to the corporate campaign check, silenced its black caucus and progressive wing precisely to increase those donations, one that has, as its nominee, a candidate who has prostrated himself to the same corporate entities that are ruining this nation, one that preaches expansion of a war we should be fighting very differently, one that refuses to consider nationalised health care...no thanks.
" I do not believe in a fate that falls on men however they act. But I do believe in a fate that falls on men unless they act."
G.K. Chesterton
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
.
In an interview with The Blade, Mr. Nader was asked who he would pick between Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain.
"I don't pick between tuberculosis and cancer," he said. "I don't pick between two politicians whose record and proposals are turning their back on the American people and who don't have the political fortitude to even defend people's interests for a living wage, full medical health insurance, and cracking down on corporate crime. So they both flunk."
.
Sounds great, but not much different from the comments made by a myriad of folks on this site, and none of them will be elected president either. It is hardly qualification for President, or proof that actions and words will speak with the same voice. Instead, it sounds like a line that could come from any comic.
You know, this whole situation, both domestic and global, would be different if more folks had a better grasp of the actual realities involved. Nader is a spoiler, not a victor. Nader is campaigning hardest in swing states not because he has an actual chance of winning there, but because he can have the greatest effect on the outcome.
Your passion is obvious and well-intentioned - put that to work for the causes and not the man. The man will succeed if and only if the majority of folks understand and seek the same causes with the same deliberative conclusions. Otherwise, you and Nader are part of the problem, not the solution - you're the odd man out. It is not a catch 22 situation in that we can't change the man until we change the system, or that we can't change the system until we change the man. The president is part of the system. The neglected and unrealized part of the system is not who gets elected, but how WE realize and actualize OUR collective power in shaping the system in the first place. We did this to ourselves, and this type of thing just keeps the dis-ease that stymies us alive and well.
Unite first and foremost to become united. We don't have a chance in hell any other way.
Dang right Nader & his supporters are part of the problem!
And we will continue to be part of the problem!
When we vote Nader, it is well-intentioned for this country, the administration of it, the future direction, the accountability toward basic common sense SOLUTIONS.
I'll vote Nader, IN THE FACE of 'the circus' that insist on:
WAR,
BAILOUTS,
Trickle down theories,
Unregulated financial schemes
Torture
...but then reality is alittle hard to grasp for some.
Unite Obama supporters FOR more war...or haven't you heard that reality?
Unite McCain supporters FOR more trickle down economics...or haven't you heard?
wild;)
."Good people are so certain that they are right." Barbara Graham prior to her execution in the gas chamber, 6/3/55.
Nader/Gonzales are campaigning hard everywhere. For you to insinuate they campaign especially in the swing states because of some ulterior motive you excrete out of your partisan politics is a fiction only die hards and narrow minds believe. Today, in fact, Matt Gonzales is campaigning in Sacramento and Stockton, hardly in a swing state,huh!
Mnay folks believe that the Nader platform is superior to that of any other candidate in this race and vote for him because of that.Nader believes in his message and runs for office to make that message as public as possible. He could very easily devote his time to working in a corporate law office for a thousand bucks and hour but he doesnt.
You vote for your reasons and you slam those who choose to exercise their right of choice differently for reasons of your own. Make up all the stuff you wish, just remember or try to at least, that you do not have the right to control the actions of others in a voting booth, nor should you. Childish crap doesnt replace good citizenship.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
I could use some help paying rent for the next year or so while I finish school. It wouldn't cost billion, or even millions or hundreds of thousands. Anyone?
http://www.ryanhartman.wordpress.com
Send to ... sec_paulsen@ustreasury.gov
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
Ultimately Obama will have to answer for this and it does not bode well. It appears that the wheels are being greased to continue business as usual when it has already been exposed as license to steal. Since folks were using credit to inflate the wealth, what good will further lending do--it will just continue spiralling. As any kind of stopgap measure it will only accelerate a total meltdown. I see this as Obama's greatest liability for putting his stamp of approval on fairydust and demanding congress line up after following Clintonista advice looking to cover their own interests. Someone shoulda told him:
It is the economy, stupid.
.
Actually UNTIL Obama becomes a better Senator how can we expect him to become a better President? Actions are words...
VOTE NADER/GONZALEZ 2008… You’ll be glad you did and so will I…
.
Nannie: and so will McCain.
.
Voting for McCain or Obama will be a vote for politics as usual, according to Nader.
If people want someone who will sit in Washington, then they should vote for McCain or Obama, but if they want someone who has demonstrated over 40 years of volunteering for the American people, they should vote for him and his running mate Matt Gonzalez, Nader said.
"With Obama and McCain you get what you pay for," Nader said. "With us you get what you vote for."
.
So, now the next Obama myth is that somehow he doesn't know any better and its not his fault he got bad advice?
I suppose this might be the next Dem fall-back cover position to keep people from realizing Obama has gotten millions in campaign contributions from exactly the same people to whom he helped give billions of our money.
But, never, ever will the Democrats admit their leaders are just corrupt crooks who do what they are paid to do.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
Quit yer whining. This ain't a black and white world of good and evil and quit trying to pigeonhole people like a little sullen brat. I was tossed off Democratic partisan sites long ago for not lining up. Gotta say, your just as bed at demanding allegiance.
It really highlights that if you are not working from a set of core principles, you can drift. And this rescue package has drifted,"..
It was always intended to drift.
Paulson's Swindle Revealed
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21125.htm
For me the bottom line is simple. You can't have a stable economy when all the money ends up abroad, and the consumers no longer have good enough jobs to pursue the "dream". Recycling debt like gamblers in a casino until its worthless doesn't work, and the bailout just pumped good money after bad. We're broke.
As the early post above says, the climate change crisis will someday make all this irrelevant as we deal with refugees, shortages and rationing.
Still a few months left for Bush to declare Marshall Law as the millions of new homeless, jobless and foodless look for food and shelter.
I'd want to prop up the banks and install government people inside for the upcoming DEPRESSION/thinning of the masses, too.
Face it, you throw 850 billion into the air, some is going to come down and land in your back pocket. Thats why Barney Frank, Pelosi and most of the rest are backing this any way it turns out(unregulated)thats why they picked such a large amount...so all them and thier buddies could be filthy rich.
Yep, we been robbed.
Naw, it will be Obama who declares martial law and sends the troops and riot police out into the streets against us.
I already got one taste of that in Denver, so it won't surprise me.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
http://www.economy-and-the-law-of-attraction.com/Abe_On_World_Financ.html
The elites are pathetic. They want taxpayers to merge US automakers to keep the US auto industry competitive in the global market. This is wrong in so may ways: 1. the public treasury is already looted into the ground, 2. corporate welfare (upward wealth redistribution) only feeds the greed, 3. detroit deserves not a dime having ferociously pushed 3x oversized and 5x overpowered gas hogs amid ecological/economic catastrophe, 4. ownership of production should be dispersed among the local regions, not consolidated, 5. the global market is bogus since other nations markets are relatively closed, competitors are oversized, and global shipping is unsustainable.
Giant automakers should be put out of their misery, and auto production ownership dispersed regionally. Fewer cars should be produced, and should average 120 mpg to start. Strategies to protect local markets will be put in place. So we have a revolutionary plan. All we need is someone to commit more crimes to finally catalyze the general revolution. O'Bama is proven elitist enough for the role. He wants to surge the war on innocents, surge the grand theft, surge the ecological disaster, all the elements of the status quo, so it's probably just a matter of time.
I'm shocked — shocked! — to find profiteering going on in this unregulated establishment.
There's even gambling going on in the back room. Nope, actually that was right out in the front room for all to see.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
What does this do but demonstrate what is already known -- capitalism is a fraud, and the whole myth of free competition is being knocked out directly as the fiercely independent competitors run after public handouts like inmates in a labor camp running after crusts of bread.
This is needed to engrave on the minds of the public at large that it's not the poor who are the welfare cheats, but the rich & the propertied who have been stealing from the working class all along. It's worth a thousand historical or theoretical studies on capitalism: no need to go to the classic texts, the people are learning directly, without any theoretical interventions, from events.
Those who accuse abuse! LOL!
Bank robbers have come a long way since the old west, now they're called politicians. They have been doing this to us for the past 8 years and it started with the theft of our elections.
anastas: read Howard Zinn's latest articles (one is online at the Nation website), one of the first things the new gov't did after the first Administration was set up in the new USA, was take over the bad debts of some rich folks. I can't remember if it was bankers.
People used to rob banks, now banks rob people.
Actually it started with Regan, was maintained by Bush Sr, Slowed down a little with Clinton and greatly accelerated by Bush Jr. I think that's quite a bit longer than 8 years.
Rickster
All the bailout did was redistribute about $8000 from every citizen in America into the pocketbooks of select corporate CEOs. Probably the worst and most blatant example of a class warfare moneygrab I've seen in my lifetime.
"That raised a question: Did the taxpayer money spur more lending, as the plan was intended to do, or did it just let one strong bank, PNC, get stronger by absorbing a weaker rival?
"Some experts think that's just fine."
Huh???
What financial or economic "expert" thinks LESS competition in a market is "just fine?" So, what are these "experts'" views on monopoly?
"So if they take that money and simply pay interest on it or pay dividends on it and don't lend it out and make money themselves, that's not a very good position for them to be in," said Ed Lazear,chairman of the White House Committee of Economic Advisors.
However...
"Some banks are still hoarding the money . . . and others simply are not interested in lending in areas where they classically lent, like construction lending, because they see a major recession coming" - Prof. John Coffee.
Let me get this straight:
It would make sense for banks to lend out the taxpayer's money and (as candidly stated by Chairman Lazear) "make money THEMSELVES", but that only makes sense in healthy economy.
Therefore, some are doing what makes sense in recessionary times: they're keeping it for THEMSELVES!
It is this coup secured by Wall Street that has their counterparts on Bay Street and across the globe pushing their governments for similar "injections".
Anybody get the feeling that the GOP has engineered this bailout (and perhaps the crash itself) as one big free for all grab bag... so that they can buy up the competition, and monopolize the monopolies before they get booted from the White House?
YES.
Absolutely.
Hence the rush.
Who watches the watchers?
.Why do you fail to consider that, as a two party legislature, every decision is the responsibility of BOTH parties! I for one am sick and tired of party loyalty replacing common sense and logic.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
And Fox neocon Channel will blame it all on Clinton and Obama. And ACORN!
.
Bush played '' GOTCHA" again...
What say you America ?????
VOTE NADER/GONZALEZ 2008… You’ll be glad you did and so will I…
http://www.votenader.org/index.html
.
NO ONE seems to know with confidence the depth of the problem. I expect that the truth would start a real panic. The seven hundred billion is being provided to the rich to buy them time to get their assets and themselves out of the country. The rest is just public drama to hide their escape. It is plausible. It is consistent with their past criminal behaviors.
These are the real solutions:
Direct Democracy (like how the constituion was established only every day then forever).
Calorie Economics (which means human effort MUST be repaid in HUMAN EFFORT, eliminating the means to game people by cash or material.)
Thermal Depolymerization (The ability to recycle literally anything by feeding it through a pressure boiling process.)
Raised Field Agriculture (Lost Ancient Agricultural system that delivers crop yields on par with modern agriculture which though is sustainable, not environmentally damaging by chemical fertilizer and pesticide.)
Wind Power (Wind energy over America if well enough harnessed could offer 2X the energy that America consumes from all sources today. This does not account for Skyrise Wind Turbines which is my very own invention that I can not find the least help to bring to market.)
Geothermal Energy (Drill to the mantle, pipe some water to it, use the steam coming off it to spin the magnets past the wire coils of your alternator, voila, electricity.)
Wave, River and Tidal Hydro Power (More magnets spinning past wire coils...)
Conversion of solar energy by Heat Engine (aka Stirling Engine... Incidentally solar by photovoltaic and nuclear and biodiesel and oil from half empty wells ALL require more energy to deliver to market than they could possibly return, thus are energy drains and not in the least energy solutions.)
Regenerative medicine (The use of adult stem cells to grow limbs and damaged tissues and whatever's necessary to repair a person.)
Oxidative Medicine (The use of high levels of oxygen to dissolve ANY organism foreign to the human system.)
Chelation (The removal of heavy metal toxins from the body by EDTA.)
This is a list of every nutrient that people need, you can find vege sources of every of these on my blog www.lamegame.name.:
Vitamins
Biotin
Folic Acid
Niacin
Pantothenic Acid
Riboflavin
Thiamin
Vitamin A
Vitamin B6
Vitamin B12
Vitamin C
Vitamin D
Vitamin E
Vitamin K
Minerals
Calcium
Chromium
Copper
Fluoride
Iodine
Iron
Magnesium
Manganese
Molybdenum
Phosphorus
Potassium
Selenium
Sodium (Chloride)
Zinc
Other Nutrients
L-Carnitine
Choline
Coenzyme Q10
Essential Fatty Acids
Lipoic Acid
Phytochemicals
Carotenoids
Chlorophyll & Chlorophyllin
Curcumin
Fiber
Flavonoids
Garlic
Indole-3-Carbinol
Isothiocyanates
Lignans (phytoestrogens)
Phytosterols
Resveratrol
Soy Isoflavones (phytoestrogens)
Amino acids
Alanine
Arginine
Asparagine
Aspartic Acid
Cysteine
Glutamic Acid
Glutamine
Glycine
Histidine
Isoleucine
Lysine
Methionine
Phenylalanine
Proline
Serine
Threonine
Tryptophan
Tyrosne
Valine
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
.With all due respect, Mr. Kelley,
I understand that you are passionate about your subject, but you are spamming this forum. Please stop.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
well sioux i have read that of course no one knows, but some think it might be a thousand trillion--is that a giga trillion?? as it's all about hedging only half should be available for loss..whatever it does not matter as the worldwide gdp is only somewhere around 60 trillion..we are big time into dealing for park place and broadway hoping the other will land next pass..
ken
Quadrillion.
I suppose once everyone has had their snout in the trough, no one can be guilty of anything. I seem to remember reading somewhere just a little while ago something about the greatest rip off of the taxpayer in Usa history, a direct transfer of wealth from the lowest classes to the highest class. It still looks that way from here.
Probably not, but 5 bill doesn't go as far as it used to.
"Now, in perhaps the bailout's strangest twist, reports this week said that negotiations to merge General Motors and Chrysler hang on the government providing cash injections into the carmakers' auto-financing arms. For that to work though, the auto-finance arms first must convert themselves into commercial banks to be eligible for taxpayer loans."
Amazing. Aren't they already in line to get a separate bail-out package?
THE NOT-SO-INVISIBLE HAND:
HOW THE PLUNGE PROTECTION TEAM KILLED CAPITALISM
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/manipulation.php
Ali Baba and his forty dieves have already taken $70 billion for themselves and the rest is to be used to play monopoly with all the small banks for the benefit of our Fascist Dictator.
Banks, Brokerage houses, and Insurers have still not been separated by regulation which is a big part of the problem. Further there's still a 600 Trillion dollar derivatives market which dwarfs the real economy. Derivatives are financial mechanisms, like being able to make money on betting that your companies stock will plummet (put option). They represent absolutely nothing of real economic value and provide the pretext to financial dominance by gamers scamming the system and the people.
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
Sioux Rose
Daniel: Are you sure it's that many trillion? The very existence of ONE such "derivative" is equivalent to a cancer eating away things of substance within the system within which it operates, but it was my understanding these derivatives were calculated at several trillion (bad enough).
.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec08/nader_10-14.html
Ralph Nader PBS Interview:
If you make the speculators pay for their own bailout, then there's a relief throughout America that there's some fairness coming out of Washington.
A 0.1 percent tax on security derivative transactions in one year -- it's going to be $500 trillion of transactions in one year -- is $500 billion. So that alone would make a sense of equity. And you wouldn't put it on the backs of the taxpayer.
England has that kind of tax, by the way, for years. FDR had it. We helped finance the Civil War with it. But after World War II, it was scrapped.
So people go into a store in all your areas where your show shows, and they buy necessities of life, and they pay 6 percent or 7 percent sales tax. Tomorrow, someone in Wall Street can buy a billion dollars of Exxon derivatives, pay no sales tax. That's where the fairness has to go.
http://www.nader.org/
Rolling the Dice on Derivatives
.
.
Nader is now focusing much of his campaign on attacking the $700 billion financial rescue package that he charged has benefited speculators on Wall Street but won't do much to put the country on solid footing.
"This is the final break of the Washington dam for any respect for the taxpayers' rights," Nader said. "In 1775 there were 13 colonies in America under King George III. Now there are 50 colonies under King George IV and it's the same awful message: taxation without representation."
Nader said he wants dramatic re-regulation of the financial markets and criminal prosecution of many Wall Street figures he charges cooked the books to show inflated profits. And he said he wants to "make the speculators pay for their crimes" by imposing a transaction tax on the sale of financial derivatives to raise money for helping stabilize the economy.
As he has in past campaigns, Nader said he didn't see much difference between the major-party candidates. Both, he said, support corporate interests and he was especially scathing of Obama.
Obama doesn't represent real change, Nader said. "This guy is the biggest con artist in our generation by far."
.
One can only hope that American public has finally learned its' lesson and puts Wall Street on a much shorter leash. It is also well past time that financial services and insurance be subject to the same sort of regulatory rigor as doctors. The consequences should things go badly is much too dire to be left to an unregulated group of greedy jerks.
Barton takes credit for saying "I told you so," when years ago citizens and consumer org's as well as some economists and law enforcement agencies were warning this exact thing would happen. They warned openly and loudly that if govt didn't stop turning a blind eye to the mortgage fraud going on in the entire real estate industry, we'd see serious economic damage. There is no way anyone in this industry or in govt can claim at all that they didn't see this coming a long time ago. Their failure to rein in the fraudsters when there was still time shows me they were in on it all along.
Joe Barton is a crock of shit. What does he think the Pentagon budget does year after year and doesn't he vote for that with dedication? What about his drive to privatize social security or have this country run off of nuclear power, and his very close ties to big oil companies (he receives some of the biggest campaign donations from oil companies compared to other Representatives)?
He is my representative and judging by his record of serving corporate interests I can only assume that his comment is due of timing: he is up for re-election. It would do his campaign no good to advocate the economic policies he normally advocates, especially when voters biggest concern is the economy.
He can talk all the BS he wants, I still am voting against him.
Ol' Franky is from Boston, a democrat no less. It goes to show how the people in this country are being played for fools.
USA folks are so struck with "fear" that they don't "feel". I have said it before and I will say it again, the government knows how to operate the "universal law of attraction", when will the folks of this country learn it?
http://www.economy-and-the-law-of-attraction.com/Abe_On_World_Financ.html
Taxpayers' bailout money being misused? Did I read it correctly? Could this happen in America, the Beacon on the Hill, the country that every other nation tries to copy? I feel myself going into a deep depression.
No matter. Soon, what with the coming ECOLOGICAL CRISIS and all, it won't matter anyway. Did you know we need two planets to sustain our current resource depletion? No?
Get yourself up to speed or people will talk. Read 'SAD'. Where?
www.dangerouscreation.com
So let's use the bailout to buy some "health" insurance companies. Then, since all of us taxpayers will be investors, we can get dividends off the profits that are generated by denying medical care to policyholders. Then, we can use those dividend checks to buy the medical care that is denied to us by our "health" insurance!
And as we raise medical prices, our profits will just rise and rise, yielding greater and greater health care for all.
See, it really can trickle down!!