What Is This 'Iranian Provocation' BS?

The whole incident was made up to give Bush leverage on his mid-east trip. What better way to make a point than to put Iran speaking from a defensive position with the disclaimer of being the agressor. If Bush without this false flag 'provocation' he would be slammed by the press & leaders of other countries in the region. Of course he is not going there to really discuss options with enemies, so much as to back-slap & celebrate with his friends the subjugation of that ole meddlesome Iraq.

Three countries, since 2000, have threatened to stop trading oil in US dollars, and change to another fiat currency:

Iraq-invaded
Iran-trying to figure out how to invade
Venezuela-on the US shitlist

Do the math. Little speedboats don't attack US warships (or any other warships) in the confines of a narrow 21 mile wide straight when, if that is really the intent, they can do it very easily with the land-based missiles they DO possess.

I thought the tiny speedboats racing around the Navy ships was kind of humorous. I half expected to see a dude water skiing behind one of them.

Iran has the world's 3rd largest oil supply. Iraq has the number two. Any more questions?

To the Brian Petersons and beingfor real etc - the US should not have a military presence in the Persian Gulf, this has nothing to do with "homeland security" in the US, but quite a lot to do with power and greed, and also bullying.
The Cole incident had nothing to do with Iran, neither did 9/11, but they had quite a lot to do with Saudi Arabia, and Al Quaeda - but of course that doesn't matter, because Saudis are your friends and Iran is the bad guy.
Good point sjc_1 about the Iranian airbus shot down by the Vincennes in the same area (I actually made the point earlier, but I think it does no harm to keep repeating it), because I think there is a large proportion of Americans who refuse to listen to the truth, or simply ignore the atrocities carried out by their own nation (and I don't think that the UK are blameless in this either).

First of all I am very tired of 30 and 40 year olds talking about the Vietnam War, am I to believe they read a book on it or something? Has anyone remembered the Cole incident that was just a small boat with a bomb in it which killed many crewmen and damaged the ship. Even if you don't care about American servicemen (kids from poor neighborhoods who have no where else to go) you should care about a Navy ship costing maybe a half a billion dollars don't you people pay taxes. I say if a speedboat comes to close blow it away I guarantee after 2 or 3 speedboats they will quit.

Remember, a U.S. missile frigate shot down and Iranian commercial jet more than 20 years ago from the same Gulf region. I would think that hard feelings still simmer from that incident.

The country with the world's strongest military is ALWAYS shopping for war in order to enrich the war profiteers. Who will rein them in?? At least put sanctions on the rogue country, for Gawd's sake. They kill millions of civilians --- that's a blatant war crime!!

This is the real scoop about the white boxes:

Two US sailors were talking about their girl friends when one of them remarked," I really like to get into her box."

The Iranians on speedboats who were monitoring the conversation, and whose English knowledge was insufficient to grasp the actual meaning, thought the sailor needed some white boxes. Out of kindness, they then dropped some white boxes in their direction in the water.

Have any of you viewed the tape yet? I have been around Iranian accents my whole life, and the man on the tape threatening the forces WAS NOT IRANIAN, there is no way. That is possibly the worst impression of an Iranian accent I have ever heard.

Also, what happened to the white boxes the US claimed they were dropping into the water that caused them to have to take "evasive action."

Gulf of Tonkin II

Reaper madness,

You need to go back to the promise land with your not-so-smart but irrelevant and off-topic posts. What does punishing a wrongdoer, no matter how barbaric, have to do with the war issue under discussion here?

You would probably make more sense if you talked about how your folks are killing the Palestinians everyday. Destroying Palestinian homes on the heads of their occupants is certainly much worse than the single incident you mentioned in your post.

Would you please take your Israeli propaganda elsewhere?

the US doesn't provoke.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655#Compensation

qwijibo January 9th, 2008 9:38 am

You see this attitude?

He'll continue to believe what he's told to believe. A rather presumptious and preconcieved opinion before any evidence has been presented, other than - "Well, the Navy said so."

Just like the Navy told us about the Golf of Tonkin...

So he will believe anything they tells him to believe. Cause appearently, mere speculation and accusations count as evidence by his standards.

"Are the accusers now the holy ones?"
Arthur Miller, The Crucible

Supposidly we're in a judgement system of Innocent untill proven guilty, or proponderance of evidence.... claim "Iran Provoked the US on Monday." So what has the Government done to prove it's accusation and claim?

Nothing. Within minutes of the accusation, what did they do? They failed to present any evidence - and instead immediatly jumped into talking points, propoganda, and denouncements against Iran. With the corperate media right there to catapult the propoganda, and a pre-programmed public there to buy right into it.

I tell ya, short memories, and absolutely no critical thought whatsoever, let alone any kind of predictive/forecasting skills for the future.

They had that Neo-Con author on Steven Colbert last night... saying something like "Before we went in, we didn't realize occupying Iraq was going to be so tough."
(a Nation of 40 million the size of Texas)

The Neocons knew. Despite the propoganda and marketing that it would be quick, easy, and not permanent... any invasion of Iran would have to lead to the inevitable - a permanent imperial presence in Iraq.

Reaper, you are looking around the wrong blog site. Go shove your head inside the Dickster's ass and you will most likely find the atmosphere more agreeable. Who the hell are you to pass judgment on other societies? Sure, there are things that Iranian society tolerates that are appalling but, if you are an American, we hardly have ideal conditions stateside. Moreover, where's your self-righteous indignation with respect to Saudi sexism and Israeli racism, for example? I hope Iran and Saudi Arabia and Israel will improve their human rights records but that's their business, not yours. How many lives of Iranian innocents are you prepared to annihilate to save themselves? Killing people appears to be more acceptable to you than tolerating a diverse world where societies have evolved in ways that are not 'American'. Frankly, many people in the world think that the 'American Way' stinks. And, by the way, Lindorff's excellent article brings home the utterly absurd excuses the war criminals in DC to whack Iran (in order to protect and please the Israeli Likudniks).

I have just read a report on the missile attack on the USS Stark, by an Iraqi Mirage armed with Exocet missiles. There are a few things which strike me as very wrong.
Following the attack Sadaam Hussein apologised for the "mistake" and promised to compensate the dead sailor's families. The Reagan administration took no further action against Iraq, but instead took a far more robust stance against Iran, resulting in destroying oil platforms and sinking Iranian naval craft.
This was because Iran felt it was OK for them to target Iraqi and Kuwaiti tankers (Kuwait was an ally of Iraq at the time).
So, the US had fully supported Iraq against Iran, and could not bear to see Iran gaining the upper hand.
At the time of the Stark incident, there were at least nine US naval vessels in the Persian Gulf.
This current situation all dates back to 1979 and the hostage crisis, something which would never have happened if the US had kept their noses out of Iranian politics.

Reaper,
The reason why your country sucks is because is full of idiots like you (just look at your government). Best place in the world to live? hahahahaha, you obviously have not traveled outside of your state, hahahahahaha!!!!!

The handwriting is on the wall, it is clear that this country is about to attack Iran, whatever the reason. We must support impeachment immediately and prosecute war criminals.
And it is essential to stop the corporate control of our government and the media.

In reply to Reaper and his/her ilk, I would say that you have a very distorted view of Iran
Firstly, I do not condone everything which Iran's theocracy does, or the words of it's leader (which incidently have been misquoted/taken out of context).
Iranian women do not wear the Burka, and do not have to cover themselves from head to foot (this happens to women in Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, and they are our allies). In fact it is common in Iran to see women wearing make-up, and loosely fitting clothes. The Chador (long dark cloak) is usually worn by more devout or fundamentalist women, whilst jeans and colourful clothes, topped off with a flimsy scarf, pulled well back (roosarie), is the clothing of choice for the majority.
Women can go out alone, and do not have to be accompanied by a male relation, and I would say that it is far safer for a women to go out at night in Iran, because the penalties for sexual crimes are so harsh. Because of the ban on alcohol in public, and the harsh treatment of drug offenders, you don't have a problem with drunken, threatening behaviour, which is sadly commonplace in the UK.
In Tehran there are large parks (with classical music playing through speaker systems, which is pleasant but kind of strange), where people walk or cycle.
When Iranian people see a Westerner, they are very friendly and will want to find out where you are from, what music you like and which football team you support. Iranians love Western music and films.
I would not choose to live in Iran, but I would imagine life to be far worse in some of the neighbouring Arab countries. Iranians do not hate Americans, but they do hate the actions of the administration, and who can blame them?
Iran has not attacked another country for hundreds of years, and does not raise it's children to be suicide bombers.
Just one last point to the Reaper, remember the USS Vincennes - it shot down a full Iranian airbus over the Straits of Hormuz, this was an act of war by the US, but no action was taken by Iran.

Yahoo news says:

"TEHRAN, Iran - Iran accused the United States on Wednesday of fabricating video and audio released by the Pentagon showing Iranian boats confronting U.S. warships in the Persian Gulf."

All I can say on my part, whether you like it or not, is that they're a bunch of murdering bastards and thugs with a lot warships operating thousands of miles from their own coastal waters.

If a (scowling and bearded) Persian seagull fouled the deck of the USS Dark Side cruising the Persian Gulf...the US and Israeli media would scream 'Procovation'! Academic bioterror experts from Great Britain would issue dire warnings about the genetically-engineered bacterial threats emanating from Persian seagull poop. A US-Israeli-French vaccine company would win a hundred zillion dollar contract to innoculate hundreds of thousands of 'Coalition troops' against the bioterror menace of Persian Seagull crap as well as Persian duck doo. An act of war or a Monty Python dress rehearsal?
The administration is desperate to give our eternal ally Israel the war it wants.

No one is saying that Iran is a lovely, democratic society, or that it doesn't brutally repress women. However, that doesn't justify planning to attack the place. In fact, women have more freedom in Iran than they do in Saudi Arabia, and I don't hear right wing calls for an invasion of Saudi Arabia.

It's all nonsense. I spent two years living in China, which is a brutal, repressive country, where hundreds of millions of people live lives little better than slavery, but of course there is no interest in the US in going to war with China to promote "democracy" and "freedom". In fact, we're busy selling out the one part of China that is genuinely free: Taiwan.

So let's at least drop all the hypocrisy. The Bush/Cheney gang want a war with Iraq for oil, and for domestic control purposes. Anything else is lies and propaganda.

Dave Lindorff
http://www.thiscantbehappening.net

The USA is a very sick country run by a very sick regime. A country of religious nutcases and greedy psychopaths. How long would a Cheney last in a democracy with a real justice system.

Of course 1. the US corporate media is backing the Bush administration's assertions that Iran is "provoking" the US and 2. since there is no justification to attack Iran because of a "nuclear threat" the Bush hawks are trying another tact to "justrify" an invasion. Does anyone remember the Vietnam Gulf of Tonkin lies by the US? This is the same. More aggression, more criminal, more immoral and unethical actions by the US government and its corporate media.

A significant majority of US citizens share the US right's paranoia of external threats (e.g. "evil empires" controlling world energy supplies) and contempt for the US left because the left fails to share the paranoia. What the right fails to realize, and what the left fails to articulate, are the three key deterrents to such external threats: 1.) rule of international laws and treaties, 2.) balance of power, and 3.) guerrilla tactics by large populations. Pointing these out collapses the right's argument and erodes its support. It's still relevant that the right has no legitimate argument.

SOP:

Women are probably a bit safer in Iran than in the US. They cover themselves from head to toe and only go out with their husbands or fathers. In America they go out by themselves wearing make-up, and half naked in sexy clothing. Is that your basic neanderthal oversimplification, or what?

Both societies have their horror stories, but American women live in a secular society with equal rights to men. (At least until the christianofascists take over.)

Its ironic reading this article a day after a neocon aligned friend (my boss) at work told me all about how the Navy should have sunk those little boats and how the liberal media will make it all the US' fault!

There are still a of lot folks out there who think Iraq is going just fine and we need to "open a can of whoop-ass" on Iran. I don't know why. Its crazy.

stellar January 9th, 2008 1:50 am

Reaper Madness: I see you are very concerned about the treatment of women in Iran. But I think you should worry about women in the U.S. who cannot walk outside or shop or go out in public without fear of being kidnapped, raped, and killed.

I am very worried about women in the US. Would you please provide us with some statistical proof for your claims. For example, is is statistically safer for a woman to go shopping in the US or in Iran, Europe, South America or wherever??

Completely mad ("naive and ignorant") Reaper.
You base your comments regarding Iranians as being "barbaric", "ignorant", "stone age thugs" because of stoned women's blood on their hands. Following your logic would naturally lead one to conclude that Amerikans with your concentration camps, torture sites, judicially sanctioned murders, not to mention the blood of 600,000+ murdered Iraqi men women and children on your hands, (and that's just recent history) have not even swung out of the trees yet.
Those of us who live in more civilized parts of the world are appalled at your morality and your sanctimonious chatter. "Best country in the world"? More like beast country in the world.
We all just hope y'all grow up before too many more of us have to die so you can supposedly defend your sorry excuse for a nation.
Myself and most of the people I know wouldn't emigrate to your country for love nor money. We know that a lot of people like you live there. If we ever did, we'd eventually have to stone you in order to move Amerika closer to civilization.
By the way, since you KNOW you live in the best country in the world (for twits like you I suppose), please inform us as to how many of the other 100+ countries you've checked out during your extensive evaluation of our planet and its peoples - you pompous ass.
gWb

It must be painful to be in such a deep state of denial, like the reaper. To come up with that weird
'stoning' story is just one deluded statement, taken out of uncle dick's wet dream collection. For
the ignoramuses like you obviously fancy to portray yourself as:
Stoning is the method of choice in the 'old testimony'. Amazingly so, Christianity, Judaism and Islam
share the same background. The old testimony. So who the hell do you think you are, that you proclaim unsupported crap like this, huh?
I guess the atrocities perpetrated by your glorious fellow christians in South America, Africa and partially Asia are okay, because you must like the conversion program of the christian church (not so long ago) where you either convert to christianity or die. Millions didn't want to change their believe and died. And what about the women in the US? Get some statistics from respective department
regarding violent crimes against women.
You are the personified hypocrisy. Blaming another religion for the same shit your own has smeared
all over its face is ludicrous to say the least. Troll go home and join dickie under his blanket.

For the 'incident' with Iran there are things to be considered that shed light on the whole situation.
You got to be David to take on Goliath. We all know that. We know as well that David won.
Iran decided a while ago not to modernize its Navy for a very good reason. Do You remember what
happened to the Spanish Armada? Do You remember what happened to the German Navy? There is
no naval match for an insanely armed american navy. But there is most certainly a way to vaporize
Goliath's navy with hundreds if not thousands of missiles. The Strait of Hormuz is about as wide as
the Channel between england and france.
The article about the Sunburn missiles is three years old. Three years in which Iran and undisclosed
other countries went shopping to Moscow on a regular basis. China knows as well that they don't
have a chance trying to out number the american flotilla. They invested in missile cruisers, carrying
hundreds of those SS-NX-26. One of those ships can take out a lot of enemies before it will be sunk
to the bottom of the ocean.
The american navy seems to be bait in my eyes. cheney wants to provoke the Iranians into using their
missiles. After the bloodbath that will occur he has the approval of the lesser mentally gifted part of
the american population to nuke Iran out of existence.
cheney is willing to sacrifice the lives of (guilty or not) thousands of sailors to justify seeing the mushroom clouds over Iran with his own eyes.

Don't invest your hopes into the Green Party. If You would have witnessed the rise and fall of the german 'Die Grünen' (The Green Ones), You would know what I am talking about. It is the system
that corrupts the people, no matter what denomination. Power corrupts, more power corrupts more.
The real solution is to refuse to participate in this whole election scam. Even if the repiglicons 'win'
the (maybe) upcoming elections through this, it will be apparent who is to blame for the end of
the world as we know it. If You don't vote, You don't waste Your vote.
Time is of the essence. Some people here are projecting things quite far into the future. Let me
reassure You, chainsaw dick can have somebody play with photoshop as long as he wants.
The ice in the Arctic is not coming back. Instead the estimated 700 Billion tons of methane will
surface and go airborne.
Go wikipedia for Asphyxiation and You will end up with methane, because it replaces oxygen in the
atmosphere. Can You think of a hundred meter high layer of methane covering the planet from
the ground up.
So the solution to this is immediate impeachment of all members of the EOP, followed by a complete
funding stop for the 'troops' and an international effort to at least to try to contain the methane like the Russians do 'right' now.
How prepared are You to die in say five years from now? And with You all Your offspring and their offspring. No oxygen depending life form will survive.
Under this light the whole idiotic election crap and cheney's Iran wet nuke dreams are not only frivolous, but more so the last nail into human mankind's coffin.
In the Sunburn article from '04 something else caught my attention:

"The US Phalanx defense employs a six-barreled gun that fires 3,000 depleted-uranium rounds a minute, but the gun must have precise coordinates to destroy an intruder "just in time."

Where do You think those 3000 depleted uranium rounds per minute will end up? With a half life
time of some Million years You will need a radiation suit for at least one million years to walk around
in Iran.
Probably just in time for the civilization that will evolve after we became extinct.

I agree, for the most part, with Dave Lindorff, particularly wherein he says, "we will not be getting the real story".

What really happened and precisely how, and what are the lies and truths in the words quoted in the article here over the past few days or so and quoting from U.S. military officials; or are they all lies? Or, which of those words are not lies?

I wonder if they lied when saying one of the crews of these Iranian military boats (I assume military anyway) threatened (over I believe radio) and then U.S. sailors were readying to strike.

I could believe that it's another lie, but haven't read or heard anything about Iran commenting on this incident or story one way or another. However, Iran has held trying to defend its rights and avoid war with everyone; esp. the U.S. And U.S. military, political, and corporate leaders lie a lot and are psychopaths.

So, what's true and not in this U.S. military account?

Reaper Madness: I see you are very concerned about the treatment of women in Iran. But I think you should worry about women in the U.S. who cannot walk outside or shop or go out in public without fear of being kidnapped, raped, and killed. So if you are more aggravated with customs in Iran than the numerable murders of innocent women in America you should pack up and hgo live in Iran and attempt to change their society.

The bilderbergers don't wantwar with Iran,
so because they control our leaders,

. • .
.• •. {therefore}
it isn't going to happen.

_____ O u r __ D o l l a r s ______
¿_¿__ O U R __ F U T U R E __?_?

And the 'planned' elimination of the middle class and any representational or organizational control of our destinies (independence from the control of international corporations = money + energy)

EVERYONE NEEDS TO LISTEN TO THIS, MAYBE THREE TIMES

The Bilderberg Group - Rulers of the World

This is not a "conspiracy" -- it is a fact of history -- with 60 years of all gov't leaders being members of this secret cabal (interlocking 'directorates' amongst them with Trilateral Commission, IMF, CFR, & davos)

SYNOPSISInterview on KPFA's Guns and Butter Wednesday, November 28th, 2007-- with investigator and author, Daniel Estulin, on his book, "The True Story of the Bilderberg Group", which describes an annual gathering where the European and American political elite, and the wealthiest CEOs of the world, all come together to discuss the economic and political future of humanity. Highly secretive, the press has never been allowed to attend, nor have statements ever been released on the group's conclusions or discussions. Also discussed are the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission.

Ever wonder why the EU didn't participate in Geo the inferiors War in Iraq? Because their string pullers knew that their peoples would have rioted (lots of mid/central Easterners), at hundreds of millions strong, and that would interfered with "their" plans.

They've clearly setup the de-industrialization USA (and the globe's) economy of for what the BILDERBERGERs call "demand destruction", through destruction of our economy (and savings). The money is not lost, but simply re-distributed (as was done in 1929). Poor people (subjugated & threatened) are so much easier to control. Ergo (end game is not end of bin Laden, but us), get ride of middle class

Regardless of your belief, they're committed to destruction of our form of gov't (nation states & borders), that work for us with constitutions and human rights and return of owner/servant class structures = oligarchy

Not to worry, they have and will own our leaders -- until ONE WORLD GOV'T (not ORDER) HAPPENS.

They've been working systematically like recent consolidation of EU (planned US+Canada = N. American Union), since the people of 550 yr old 'Venetian Black Nobility' -- but not the through 'all seeing illuminati eye', but by co-opting the leaders of countries and corporations to become their collective agents of change.

! Talk about being REALLY committed !

Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »

"Oil thats is, Texas Tea"

Iran's next

"Remember the Maine!" The Gulf of Tonkin Incident. Not very creative, these corporatists, are they? But just as Rove's SOP has been successful time after time, perhaps a variation on the same scenario will work again. I hear that Bush is visiting the Middle East to convince (my guess would be bribe and threaten) various governments to go along with the long-planned attack on Iran. Think the jerk will pull it off? I hope not.

Dear Reaper, what you say is true but totally misses the point. We are "over there" to dominate our suppliers of oil, not to reform their customs. The same kind of crap that you refer to happens in India and hundreds of other places that you've never heard of. Fortunately for them they're not sitting on "known petroleum reserves" so we take no interest in them. To profess otherwise is to be truely naive.

Hiphopcrazy! It's the only way to go!

What? An attempt at balanced reporting? What year is this??

Paul - originalfaith.com

Clinton, Obama, McCain, Romney, etc. all want war with Iran. They have the primaries set up so that it does not matter which of the "top candidates" wins. Voting Green is the only real choice this election.

http://www.gp.org/

There was also the USS Stark -- which was attacked by Iraq while under Saddam (with a French built Exocet missile). But back then Rumsfeld was shaking hands with Saddam and the French and other Europeans were helping him out. A "good guy", then, apparently. Funny how winds change.

I happen to remember the USS Stark because it was once docked in Duluth, Minnesota, on Lake Superior. I met some of the crew and they let me sit at the controls and get some photos. Still have them.

Their is an Middle Eastern country that did attack an American ship, and caused the death of 39 American sailors, and got away with it. The ship was USS Liberty.
The country? Well we know what country that was,Israel.
and for The survivors of the 1967 attack on the USS Liberty have been beating their heads against the wall for 40 years trying to get some attention and publicity

As Jack Nicholson said" Go sell crazy somewhere else were all stocked up here!"

Look for attack on Iran around April.

Folks, I'm supporting Republican Ron Paul. Whomever emerges on the Democratic side (sans Hillary) will be better than whomever wins the Republican side (sans Ron Paul... who wants the troops home NOW!)

Remember what the Republicans did to Democrat Cynthia McKinney in Georgia? I say its time for Democrats, Liberals, and Progressives to reciprocate in the Republican Primaries. Whatever we can do to continue to keep Ron Paul's pro-Peace message heard! (have you been watching Faux News squirm?)

Reaper madness,

If any of this were about democracy, it would smell differently. Bush Sr. restored the Kuwaiti oil monarch to the throne. We have an unholy alliance with Saudi Arabia, despite the (supposed) fact that most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi. Opium production is back in full-swing in Afghanistan, and Iraq apparently had nothing to do with 9/11 and no WMD's.

This is no mission to spread democracy, and it never was.

I've got my own ideas on how to spread democracy. The first step is to show a little at home. Being a constitutional republic, with winner-take-all and cannot recount votes (despite the fact we can count them in a single night), having no habeas corpus or presumption of innocence, a president with more signing statements than all past presidents combined, warrantless eavesdropping, secret prisons, Abu Ghraib, etc. -- we're not exactly the best country around to export democracy.

In any case, democracy is probably the ONLY political system that comes from within. It requires an ongoing social consciousness, love of freedom, etc. or it dies. Unlike tyranny, fascism, corporotism, etc. democracy can't really be forced from the outside.

The picture you painted of Cheney landing on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier...omg, was he wearing chimpee's flight suit? I imagined him standing near the edge of it, shaking a fist at the Iranian naval vessels!

You are so right, David, about the media not picking up on this incident. I saw (or heard) it once. It really hits home when you switch the geography, and this situation needs to be seen from your point of view.

What with the all-consuming U.S. primaries going on, that's where most of mainstream America's attention is focused. This is a perfect example of "The Shock Doctrine." For days now I've been saying that "someone" needs to keep an eye on Cheney/Bush Co. Thanks David. Who in the MSM is doing that? God damn fascists! Hasn't anyone learned from lessons of the past that this would be the perfect time for C/B Co. to do something insane, like attack Iran?

Arrgghh!

I am so glad to read of so many who see through this bull and express it, I dare say that a large share of us here are taking actions to express to the right people our collective displeasure. I am pleased too that the above person pointed out that we all need to be doing something more than expounding on what we don't like. Today I read of another congressman who has taken a stand on impeaching Cheney, He is from Maine, and he has written Conyers who leads the Judiciary Committee responsible for impeachment. Today I called my Congressman Rick Boucher of Southwestern Virginia, (AGAIN) tomorrow I intend to call Conyers office and urge getting the impeachment started, next day I'm calling Polosi's office,(gonna tell her to clean off part of that "TABLE" to make room for IMPEACHMENT because we the public are sick of these two thugs running our country in the ground and missrepresenting me (US) to the world) every week I'm going to make several efforts to pressure some official to do their job. Everyone please do the same, and urge your friends to do the same, I am one person, you are one person, we are two, our friends add more, and it multiplies. WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE !!!!!!! FOLKS THERE ARE MULTITUDES OF VERY INTELIGENT, AND CONCERNED CITIZENS, LETS DO EACH OUR PART AND TAKE HEART !!!!! WE ARE THE PATRIOTS OF TODAY !!!!

Unfortunately for the reaper, he can not see the argument being made. What would he think if another country was on *our* coast? Huh? And is he going to liberate all nations from the outside? Or create the conditions for them to change themselves. I can tell you, that attacking Iran will move them farther into behavior that neither he nor I like. Or does he think we can occupy and rule Iran? I'm pretty tired of his kind of crappy thinking.

For those of you who think impeachment is appropriate but have not signed up:

www.wexlerwantshearings.com

Please,

Bill

"Boxes were thrown into the water from Iranian speedboats."

USA has thousands of atom bombs. Isreal has hundreds of atom bombs. Iran has- boxes!

I'm scared! GW Bush, please protect us from Iran!

With all of the lies being floated out there by this so called administration, who's to even say if these were really Iranian vessels. Come to think of it, where were the American vessels, relative to international waters, or Iranian boundaries? They may have been the old swift boaters gearing up for action against anything non-neo/con! Could be just a Tonkin the doughnut time again!

Well, if Iran does not do anything (those cowards), we can ask Israel to attack us covertly and blame it on Iran. It's worked before, should work again. Not sure we want to do Iran right now or not, may be just keeping all options on the table. I think we may have a little depression first, and then follow it up with a nice big war to get us out of it (and just skip the New Deal II)

The only way to stop future wars and depressions is to eliminate the privately owned and foreign controlled Fed. Those who dare suggest this from a position of power or influence usually meet a nasty ending, so not much hope for this.

UN charter
http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/

In Article 2:

# All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.

# All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

Note: this is the highest law in the land in the United States. The US Constitution contains a clause called the 'supremacy clause'. That says that all treaties signed and ratified by the US government become the highest law in the land alongside the Constitution. The UN charter was signed by the US president (Truman or Roosevelt, I forget which) and ratified by the US Senate. So this isn't some feel good lefty stuff. Its the highest law in the land in the United States.

'If everyone here posting isn't involved in a group doing something'

Some suggestions.

Local Green party
Indymedia (www.indymedia.org ... look for something local)
American Friends Service committee
anything called a 'peace and justice center' in your area.
by now, there should be some local anti-war groups
Code Pink
Women in Black

Look around, there are many others.

Or, there's a story I once heard Rep. Billy McKinney tell in Georgia. Back in the early sixties, when the Atlanta PD was all white and very oppressive. One day, he got fed up and went out by himself and made a sign and started walking on the sidewalk outside police HQ. He was by himself, a one-person protest. Then, he heard tires screech and a car stop behind him. He kinda nervously turned around. What he saw was a local reverend who'd seen him, stopped his car and decided to join him.

That was the beginnings of the movement to reform Atlanta. It can start with one person. Maybe someone else is waiting on you to start something.

Billy McKinney ended up a state Representative in Georgia. Most famous for punching out an obnoxious Republican on the floor of the state house. :) And for a famous daughter who's running for President. www.runcynthiarun.org/

'wasn't one of the reasons that we went to war in Vietnam there supposedly were gun boats that attacked a U.S. naval vessel?'

Yep, that was the Gulf of Tonkin incident. At first, the issue could best be described as confusing. But by the time Johnson made his speech to the nation that evening, the people in the Pentagon clearly knew that there had been no attack at all. But that didn't stop the war-mongers from claiming their excuse to start a war that lasted a decade, killed at least 2 or 3 million people, and which collapsed the post-war economic system that had been relatively stable and successful for 20 years.

If everyone here posting isn't involved in a group doing something about this and isn't pressuring their politicians & local media to cover this story honestly then shut up. Seriously. There are people in countries much more dangerous than this one, facing worse odds against just as powerful forces (relatively speaking) and they get off their ass and participate in their democracy. This representative, liberal democracy is broken and won't fix itself. If you're here and realize the problem, do something about it and at least plant the seeds that can take the place of the institutions that put these crook politicians in each party into power in the first place. Again, if you aren't doing that then don't bother bitching here. IF we had a functioning democracy, which we don't, these politicians would have little power over us and they'd do as well tell them. They have power over us, logically, only because their power is supposed to be justified by making our lives better & making logical, humane decisions on behalf of the country or the region they represent. If they aren't they have no right having any power over our lives and you should do something about that.

What was old Mr. Adams quote ... something about not going abroad to search for monsters to slay.

I love the cries that those of us who oppose this crap are 'anti-american'. If you look back at what America was when it was founded, its clearly those who spend our treasure and spill the blood of our youth to go abroad in search of monsters to slay who are 'anti-american'.

The uncontrolled insanity of Dick Cheney just proves that there were no lifeguards in his gene pool!

I refused to waste one second of my remaining moments on this planet reading about some ridiculous charge of "Iranian provocation" in some US propaganda rag (US newspaper). When I originally heard this trumped up and hypocritical accusation against Iran during a "teaser" for a local news station, I knew immediately that the fascist iron triangle of Bush/Cheney, the MSM, and their corporate conglomerates were fast at work setting up another excuse for American imperialism of a country that is rich in profitable natural resources, but has never been a threat to the United States.

Thank you, David Lindorff, for nailing this one. As usual, it is the US government that is doing the provoking and then following up with propaganda--lies and distortions designed to manipulate weak American minds into another jingoistic and xenophobic frenzy. Of course, its Pravda-esque PR arms in the media are more than willing to play their part. Why? Because the corporate conglomerates that own all the media profit handsomely from psychological manipulations of American nativists with room temperature IQs and war.

Iran did not start this fight, the bullies in the US government did. They always do. Just business as usual, American style.

John Adams, the father of the US Navy, is probably rolling in his grave.

Despite constant political heckling and destruction of his re-election prospects by the war hawks, our second president, who built a strong Navy against Jeffersons wishes, refused to use it. Even though Napoleanic France was attacking and looting American shipping and Spain and Britain were encroaching on US borders.

Adams knew when the nation could not afford another costly war, and had the wisdom to put himself in political jeopardy with Hamilton, who had raised a huge army and was demanding to invade Florida for empire and glory. A world war was imminent.

Adams forced the peace delegation to embark for Europe, made a truce with France, and disbanded Hamilton's Army. Hamilton never forgave him and used the first instance of political party machinery to "swiftboat" a candidate.

We need another man like John Adams to save us from the mindless Warhawks.

Research actions leading up to Gulf of Tonkin resolution!

arvy,
you're probably right, it's more like rapid-fire mode now. it's only sad because one hates to see a good thing end. not that it's been all that good for the last seven years...

wasn't one of the reasons that we went to war in Vietnam there supposedly were gun boats that attacked a U.S. naval vessel?

Bush Derangement Syndrome has been diagnosed on this thread.

Excellent link Samski,

So, I guess one of the questions here is:

What the helll is the fleet doing bottled up in the gulf like sitting ducks?

A: Pearl Harbor. (let most ships there get hit and go down, so defense contractors can make the case for building new ones! Prelude to WWIII.)

Is this what you people want? Another World War? This VP must be put into a straightjacket immediately.

the above, as all my posts are, are just my opinion only.

pac

Crumbling definitely, but not so sure about the qualifiers. Slowly? Sadly???

this iranian provocation bs (i'm presuming that stands for bull shit) is just that. it is yet another event/spectacle designed to take mindless america's mind off of the impeachment processs. each and every time impeachment begins to gain momentum, yet another event occurs, making the press scurry around like the dumbasses they are, trying to outdo one another in sensationalism. slowly, sadly, america crumbles.

Correction,

Not iceland. It's Greenland and Antiartica that no longer show the millions of blue lakes melting on the surface of the fragile ice shelves and ice caps.

Mysteriously, the whole continent was blurry last I tried to use it. I can see why, too. No need to start a worldwide panic just because the ocean is going to be 20 feet higher in the next fews years!

We are in a lot of deep chit!

The above is all just speculation on my part.

pac

Navy in Gulf better bring sunblock:

http://www.rense.com/general59/theSunburniransawesome.htm

The Pilgrims and the Puritans (and the generations of tenure-needy scholars and teachers who made them "the beginning") built a wall into the American psyche---cross over it, talk to "the enemy," even attempt to take a different people's point of view and you get the stocks or, most of the time, far worse; for the object of the christian-capitalist game is to keep their own people terrified, confined, manipulated and working hard for elite profit. (In Israel they're called "settlers" as if Palestine is the old "empty American West," which never was, either---true insanity)....You go there to provoke them into doing what will then righteously entitle poor injured You to their resources. And if any of this were being done to you, you scream louder than anybody else on the planet. Yeah, Obama's gonna change everything. Please.

Was looking for website of past presidents biographies this morning, and Googled for bios, presidents since '64. The first one that came up on Google was guess who? Vice President Dick Cheney. The "Vice" was shadowed. Found that rather telling.

I saw the newscast about the Iranian boats harassing our ship. One flag was flying on one of the little boats, and the newscaster noted it, then said the boats were Iranian. My thought at the time was how anyone could put that little scene together, and stick an Iranian flag on one of the boats, then have the media raise the hue and cry of Iran trying to provoke us.

There's more to this guys,

I pointed out to Scott Ritter last year that Cheney and Haliburton were drilling natural gas and oil deep in Iran using the USarmy as intimidation to keep prices low. (see things our way or else.) Hal claims it does not violate the trade restrictions because they launder the money through a front company in the Cayman Islands. We told Scott to check google earth to see the fresh roads and drill sites leading from iraq into Iran; he did, and posted a subsequent article where he expressed his professional opinion as a former marine intelligence officer and UN weapons inspector that drilling was going on, on the wrong side of the border. Scott has the coordinates for anyone who is interested (if the VP hasn't blurred it already as he did the Naval Observatory in DC, Greenland and Iceland blue "mullians" lakes.)

The straights of Hormith are tight. To expect a third-world bunch of ragheads to stay out of international waters just because your warship flotilla is clogging it, is unreasonable.

It is clear to me that Dick Cheney is trying to manufacture another war-for-profit fleecing of the taxpayer. As loyal Americans, we should not be silent watching him suck the corporate congress into another war-profiteering scam.

The above is all just my opinion only.

pacplyer

"Gulf of Tonkin" was my first thought as others above have noted. Since shrub's thunder was stolen over the 'Iran will have nukes before I change my socks again' shit, now they trot out the old "they attacked our ships!' plan. I too want to see pictures of these alleged 'boats'. My very first thought was a bunch of small rubber Zodiacs pissing around our 'battle group' or whatever they are calling this idiotic and aggressive provocation. hardly a threat I'd bet. I liked the analogy above about having Iranian battleships about 15 miles off Florida or New York. Or occupying Texas or Cali....

"Aggressive", "threatening", etc. have no place in this discussion, at least not as regards the manner in which the Iranians approached the US Navy. It's common practice on the sea and in the air to approach the craft of another less than friendly nation when they come near your territorial space. It's not "prepare to die!" it's more like "Hi there. We see you. You see us. Let's not do anything stupid, okay?"

Have we not heard this story before around some gulf like Tonking or something like that? it feels like an old story to me, let's hope that it does not continue the same way.

Impeach the lying bastards.

http://www.farsnews.com/

OIL OIL OIL OIL OILY manipulate OIL prices OIL OIL OILY OIl OIL military spending....military budget...u do not use it u lose it...OIL OIL OIL...

In the 1930's Will Rogers said, of the US Navy patrolling Chinese waters: "Now, how'd you like it if the Chinese sent one of THEIR gunboats, full of THEIR marines, up the Mississippi to protect their laundries in Memphis?"

"The American corporate media will also be responsible though, for our domestic news organizations are playing the willing propagandists here as willingly as did Pravda or TASS in the old Soviet Union."

"In dictatorships we are more fortunate than you in the West in one respect. We believe nothing of what we read in the newspapers and nothing of what we watch on television, because we know its propaganda and lies. Unlike you in the West. We've learned to look behind the propaganda and to read between the lines, and unlike you, we know that the real truth is always subversive."
dissident Czech novelist Zdener Urbanek

"Can anyone show me a picture of a 'Iranian Revolutionary Guard boat"?
A boat!?! Sure, boats are going to attack a Navy cruiser, destroyer and frigate. With what? Why no pictures? Why no identified sources?
The official said he didn't have the precise transcript of communications that passed between the two forces, but said the Iranians radioed something like "we're coming at you and you'll explode in a couple minutes."

My war started with an "attack by boats" that was fired-upon by our brave-Captains (killing, I believe, one Enemy-Whale in the Gulf of Tonkin, where we also 'didn't-belong') — and that-incident, too, lacked a "precise transcript of communications that passed between the two forces" [but how informative would that enemy-whale-song (or its death-throes) have been, anyway — even if 'threatening'?].
Like I said, Iran is 'in-pocket', and KNOWS there will be no-'war' (other than the sort of cooperative ColdWar/"good-cop&bad-cop" we played with the USSR for so-long…and so-Profitably).
All this 'noise' is just meant to scare-you [and, apparently, 'HAS']...

No one with half a brain is going to attack the world's superpower. The U.S. needs to quit its lying and nonstop propaganda. No one believes the U.S. government anymore. The U.S. government WANTS an oil-rich Muslim country like Iran to attack it and is frustrated because Iran won't, so they're going to go ahead, with Israel's help, and start another war.

Was Cheney really there on one of the aircraft carriers? Where did this info come from? If true, why the hell was he there when this incident was going down? Did he know about it ahead of time?

And, my understanding is that Iran has a load of Stinger missles (from Russia) that could take out the U.S. armada on their door step in about 28 minutes. Of course Iran itself would get vaporized. I'm beginning to wonder if Cheney is really trying to provoke Russia by getting into a spitting match with Iran. What with the missles the U.S. is trying to put on the Russian border and all.......

Oh, I almost forgot about the oil and gas thingy. Russia and China are making deals all around the globe for access to oil and gas. Particularly in Iran, South America, and Africa. I think the U.S. has demonstrated that they don't intend to share control over the oil and gas resources of the planet with anyone.

Just sayin' that provoking Iran is just part of this David and Goliath situation........

It's a good thing only 35% of the USA are BDF's the rest have the sense to see though the bull biscuits put out by the MIC, me thinks most who are war glory boys should get off their video war games, and stop watching Hollywood bullshit as well

Imagine if the Soviet Union had missles in Cuba . . . .

The Bush alarm clock goes off in the morning and the sleeping American population, is groggily groping for the Obama snooze button.

mikec January 8th, 2008 1:02 pm :
"we're not ALL sleepwalking. many of us are doing what we can."

"go to john edwards' site and read his six-point platform. concrete, clearly defined goals, not vague calls for "change." i'm not sure why the M$M isn't doing MORE to suppress him."

"it's easy to sit back wherever you are and snipe. what are you doing for YOUR country?"

1 Surely mikec, a reasonable person would infer that, of course, when I say "Americans" I don't mean every last one of them. I mean their totality, in a national sense.

2 Yes I've heard about Edwards' deathbed conversion to getting out of Iraq. It is a little late to be credible, don't you think?

3 Snipe? Why do Americans so often use military terminology? (assuming you are American) And why so defensive? Don't you think it sounds a little odd for people who invade and conquer nations around the world to be telling others at the same time to mind their own business? In case you missed geography class, we live on the same planet. The US has a major impact on all of us. At least your votes get counted sometimes;)

It must be difficult to be a purported ally of the great hegemon these days and to have to pretend to believe what issues from its halls of power and to make decisions consistent with one's own best interests but not obviously in contradiction of the propaganda.

The US's actions that McCain supports isn't hypocracy. The imperialist, we-own-the-world impusle has been indoctrinated in all of us USAns down to pure instinct. Even a profound cynic like me needed Lindorff's article above to remind me how absurd calling yesterdays incident a Iranian provocation was.

The right of the US State to threaten any other State with anhillation, for any reason, is axiomatic. To question it is to question the color of the sky on a clear day.

it's the same brand of BS that frames israeli military atrocities in occupied palestine as "retaliation"---a game of blame-the-victim, so that rachel corrie became responsible for her own death by terrorizing that bulldozer operator.

Question: What would be the U.S. reaction to massive Iranian warships a couple of miles from NY Harbor?

McCain, when asked what his "pet peeve" is, said "hypocrisy". I wonder how his hatred of hypocrisy would see this Iranian reaction to U.S. warships kissing their shoreline? How would his hatred of hypocrisy impact foreign policy in a McCain presidency?

Any time a writer sees through the propaganda of the corporate media and their militarist administration and Congress, as Lindorff does in this article, it is heart-warming. He describes the elusive obvious—what if we were on the receiving end of such militarism? Bravo!

jlocke--

1.) we're not ALL sleepwalking. many of us are doing what we can.

2.) go to john edwards' site and read his six-point platform. concrete, clearly defined goals, not vague calls for "change." i'm not sure why the M$M isn't doing MORE to suppress him.

it's easy to sit back wherever you are and snipe. what are you doing for YOUR country?