Hill Briefed on Waterboarding in 2002; In Meetings, Spy Panels’ Chiefs Did Not Protest, Officials Say
In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA’s overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.
Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.
“The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough,” said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange.
Congressional leaders from both parties would later seize on waterboarding as a symbol of the worst excesses of the Bush administration’s counterterrorism effort. The CIA last week admitted that videotape of an interrogation of one of the waterboarded detainees was destroyed in 2005 against the advice of Justice Department and White House officials, provoking allegations that its actions were illegal and the destruction was a coverup.
Yet long before “waterboarding” entered the public discourse, the CIA gave key legislative overseers about 30 private briefings, some of which included descriptions of that technique and other harsh interrogation methods, according to interviews with multiple U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge.
With one known exception, no formal objections were raised by the lawmakers briefed about the harsh methods during the two years in which waterboarding was employed, from 2002 to 2003, said Democrats and Republicans with direct knowledge of the matter. The lawmakers who held oversight roles during the period included Pelosi and Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.) and Sens. Bob Graham (D-Fla.) and John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), as well as Rep. Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.) and Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan).
Individual lawmakers’ recollections of the early briefings varied dramatically, but officials present during the meetings described the reaction as mostly quiet acquiescence, if not outright support. “Among those being briefed, there was a pretty full understanding of what the CIA was doing,” said Goss, who chaired the House intelligence committee from 1997 to 2004 and then served as CIA director from 2004 to 2006. “And the reaction in the room was not just approval, but encouragement.”
Congressional officials say the groups’ ability to challenge the practices was hampered by strict rules of secrecy that prohibited them from being able to take notes or consult legal experts or members of their own staffs. And while various officials have described the briefings as detailed and graphic, it is unclear precisely what members were told about waterboarding and how it is conducted. Several officials familiar with the briefings also recalled that the meetings were marked by an atmosphere of deep concern about the possibility of an imminent terrorist attack.
“In fairness, the environment was different then because we were closer to Sept. 11 and people were still in a panic,” said one U.S. official present during the early briefings. “But there was no objecting, no hand-wringing. The attitude was, ‘We don’t care what you do to those guys as long as you get the information you need to protect the American people.’ ”
Only after information about the practice began to leak in news accounts in 2005 — by which time the CIA had already abandoned waterboarding — did doubts about its legality among individual lawmakers evolve into more widespread dissent. The opposition reached a boiling point this past October, when Democratic lawmakers condemned the practice during Michael B. Mukasey’s confirmation hearings for attorney general.
GOP lawmakers and Bush administration officials have previously said members of Congress were well informed and were supportive of the CIA’s use of harsh interrogation techniques. But the details of who in Congress knew what, and when, about waterboarding — a form of simulated drowning that is the most extreme and widely condemned interrogation technique — have not previously been disclosed.
U.S. law requires the CIA to inform Congress of covert activities and allows the briefings to be limited in certain highly sensitive cases to a “Gang of Eight,” including the four top congressional leaders of both parties as well as the four senior intelligence committee members. In this case, most briefings about detainee programs were limited to the “Gang of Four,” the top Republican and Democrat on the two committees. A few staff members were permitted to attend some of the briefings.
That decision reflected the White House’s decision that the “enhanced interrogation” program would be treated as one of the nation’s top secrets for fear of warning al-Qaeda members about what they might expect, said U.S. officials familiar with the decision. Critics have since said the administration’s motivation was at least partly to hide from view an embarrassing practice that the CIA considered vital but outsiders would almost certainly condemn as abhorrent.
Information about the use of waterboarding nonetheless began to seep out after a furious internal debate among military lawyers and policymakers over its legality and morality. Once it became public, other members of Congress — beyond the four that interacted regularly with the CIA on its most sensitive activities — insisted on being briefed on it, and the circle of those in the know widened.
In September 2006, the CIA for the first time briefed all members of the House and Senate intelligence committees, producing some heated exchanges with CIA officials, including Director Michael V. Hayden. The CIA director said during a television interview two months ago that he had informed congressional overseers of “all aspects of the detention and interrogation program.” He said the “rich dialogue” with Congress led him to propose a new interrogation program that President Bush formally announced over the summer
“I can’t describe that program to you,” Hayden said. “But I would suggest to you that it would be wrong to assume that the program of the past is necessarily the program moving forward into the future.”
Waterboarding Used on at Least 3
Waterboarding as an interrogation technique has its roots in some of history’s worst totalitarian nations, from Nazi Germany and the Spanish Inquisition to North Korea and Iraq. In the United States, the technique was first used five decades ago as a training tool to give U.S. troops a realistic sense of what they could expect if captured by the Soviet Union or the armies of Southeast Asia. The U.S. military has officially regarded the tactic as torture since the Spanish-American War.
In general, the technique involves strapping a prisoner to a board or other flat surface, and then raising his feet above the level of his head. A cloth is then placed over the subject’s mouth and nose, and water is poured over his face to make the prisoner believe he is drowning.
U.S. officials knowledgeable about the CIA’s use of the technique say it was used on three individuals — Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks; Zayn Abidin Muhammed Hussein Abu Zubaida, a senior al-Qaeda member and Osama bin Laden associate captured in Pakistan in March 2002; and a third detainee who has not been publicly identified.
Abu Zubaida, the first of the “high-value” detainees in CIA custody, was subjected to harsh interrogation methods beginning in spring 2002 after he refused to cooperate with questioners, the officials said. CIA briefers gave the four intelligence committee members limited information about Abu Zubaida’s detention in spring 2002, but offered a more detailed account of its interrogation practices in September of that year, said officials with direct knowledge of the briefings.
The CIA provided another briefing the following month, and then about 28 additional briefings over five years, said three U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge of the meetings. During these sessions, the agency provided information about the techniques it was using as well as the information it collected.
Lawmakers have varied recollections about the topics covered in the briefings.
Graham said he has no memory of ever being told about waterboarding or other harsh tactics. Graham left the Senate intelligence committee in January 2003, and was replaced by Rockefeller. “Personally, I was unaware of it, so I couldn’t object,” Graham said in an interview. He said he now believes the techniques constituted torture and were illegal.
Pelosi declined to comment directly on her reaction to the classified briefings. But a congressional source familiar with Pelosi’s position on the matter said the California lawmaker did recall discussions about enhanced interrogation. The source said Pelosi recalls that techniques described by the CIA were still in the planning stage — they had been designed and cleared with agency lawyers but not yet put in practice — and acknowledged that Pelosi did not raise objections at the time.
Harman, who replaced Pelosi as the committee’s top Democrat in January 2003, disclosed Friday that she filed a classified letter to the CIA in February of that year as an official protest about the interrogation program. Harman said she had been prevented from publicly discussing the letter or the CIA’s program because of strict rules of secrecy.
“When you serve on intelligence committee you sign a second oath — one of secrecy,” she said. “I was briefed, but the information was closely held to just the Gang of Four. I was not free to disclose anything.”
Roberts declined to comment on his participation in the briefings. Rockefeller also declined to talk about the briefings, but the West Virginia Democrat’s public statements show him leading the push in 2005 for expanded congressional oversight and an investigation of CIA interrogation practices. “I proposed without success, both in committee and on the Senate floor, that the committee undertake an investigation of the CIA’s detention and interrogation activities,” Rockefeller said in a statement Friday.
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a former Vietnam War prisoner who is seeking the GOP presidential nomination, took an early interest in the program even though he was not a member of the intelligence committee, and spoke out against waterboarding in private conversations with White House officials in late 2005 before denouncing it publicly.
In May 2007, four months after Democrats regained control of Congress and well after the CIA had forsworn further waterboarding, four senators submitted written objections to the CIA’s use of that tactic and other, still unspecified “enhanced” techniques in two classified letters to Hayden last spring, shortly after receiving a classified hearing on the topic. One letter was sent on May 1 by Sen. Russell Feingold (D-Wis.). A similar letter was sent May 10 by a bipartisan group of three senators: Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) and Ron Wyden (D-Ore.).
In a rare public statement last month that broached the subject of his classified objections, Feingold complained about administration claims of congressional support, saying that it was “not the case” that lawmakers briefed on the CIA’s program “have approved it or consented to it.”
Staff writers Josh White and Walter Pincus and staff researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.
© 2007 The Washington Post Company
Well, that erases the last ounce of mystery about Pelosi’s refusal to launch investigations of the duplicitous duo in the Whitehouse.
Did you think she was some angel?
Further evidence of the lower level of human beings who now occupy roles of power — (forget roles of leadership). The “lower order” now runs this country — and seeks to run the world — all of it — regardless of the means.
Go Cindy Sheehan!!
Crush Pelosi!!
Jungleboy:
Nope; thought she was a short-sighted, political opportunist, not an “evil-doer.” My bad.
She’s just another cheap war whore. She wouldn’t have the job she has if she weren’t.
Cream is not all that rises to the top. Think scum.
How did both parties and two (maybe 3) of the three branches of government manage to have such unconscious wigged out leaders? We voted for them.
So much for our educational system since about the mid-1950’s! So much for a Yale history degree. Yawn.
Soooo…..
I would assume there is still no delusional hope by CD readers of a strong stand by Democrats in Congress to support the constitution and defend Americans’ liberties. With a political party so corrupted by corporate interests and led by complascent or perhaps just spineless leaders one wonders how long it will last as a viable voice for common people who over the years have put their faith in it as the party to buffer them from political wrongs.
What a sad commentary on our political state of affairs in Washington, DC.
We’re in DEEP doodoo, period.
Beyond what her handlers and the “congressional source familiar with Pelosi’s position on the matter” say . . . .
Here’s a transcript of Pelosi’s interview with Chris Wallace, 7 October 2007 (second set of questions; the first set addresses SCHIP):
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299943,00.html
excerpt:
WALLACE: It’s been disclosed this week that the Justice Department, after publicly declaring torture abhorrent in 2004, secretly, a few months later, approved the — in combination — the use of head slapping, water boarding and exposure to extreme temperatures.
The president now says that the leadership, the Congress, was fully informed, and that this is not torture.
First question: Were you ever briefed about this policy or the secret Justice Department memos?
PELOSI: Well, in order to know if I’m briefed about it, I’d have to be briefed about it now. What exactly is the president talking about? Yes, let me get my credentials right out there. I’m the longest-serving member of Congress on the intelligence committee, both on the committee and ex officio as a leader. So we have been briefed on some tactics used by the administration.
We, too, are now fully briefed . . . .
But I’d have to see what we’re talking about here, because this is — all I know is what I’ve read in the New York Times.
Way to go Willybill!
I will sign and send.
Democracy - [Gr.,=rule of the people], term originating in ancient Greece to designate a government where the people share in directing the activities of the state, as distinct from governments controlled by a single class, select group, or autocrat. The definition of democracy has been expanded, however, to describe a philosophy that insists on the right and the capacity of a people, acting either directly or through representatives, to control their institutions for their own purposes. Such a philosophy places a high value on the equality of individuals and would free people as far as possible from restraints not self-imposed. It insists that necessary restraints be imposed only by the consent of the majority and that they conform to the principle of equality.
Development
Democracy first flourished in the Greek city-state, reaching its fullest expression in ancient Athens. There the citizens, as members of the assembly, participated directly in the making of their laws. A democracy of this sort was possible only in a small state where the people were politically educated, and it was limited since the majority of inhabitants were slaves or noncitizens. Athenian democracy fell before imperial rule, as did other ancient democracies in the early Italian cities and the early church. In this period and in the Middle Ages, ideas such as representation crucial to modern Western democracy were developed.
Doctrines of natural law evolved into the idea of natural rights, i.e., that all people have certain rights, such as self-preservation, that cannot be taken from them. The idea of contract followed, that rulers and people were bound to each other by reciprocal obligations. If the sovereign failed in his duties or transgressed on natural rights, the people could take back their sovereignty. This idea, as postulated by John Locke, strongly influenced the development of British parliamentary democracy and, as defined in the social contract theory of Jean Jacques Rousseau, helped form the philosophical justification for the American and French Revolutions. The idea that equality of opportunity can be maintained through political democracy alone has long been challenged by socialists and others, who insist that economic democracy through economic equality and public ownership of the major means of production is the only foundation upon which a true political democracy can be erected.
English settlers in America faced frontier conditions that emphasized the importance of the individual and helped in breaking down class distinctions and prejudices. These led to a democratic political structure marked by a high degree of individualism, civil liberty, and a government limited by law. In the 19th cent. emphasis was placed on broadening the franchise and improving the machinery for enabling the will of the people to be more fully and directly expressed.
Since the mid-20th cent. most political systems have described themselves as democracies, but many of them have not encouraged competing political parties and have not stressed individual rights and other elements typical of classic Western democracy. With the collapse of one-party Communist rule in Eastern Europe, the fall of authoritarian dictatorships in Latin America, and the end of some one-party states in sub-Saharan Africa, however, the number of true multiparty democracies has increased. Despite the increase in the number of countries holding multiparty elections, however, the United Nations issued a study in 2002 that stated that in more than half the world’s nations the rights and freedoms of citizens are limited.
Bibliography
See H. Laski, Democracy in Crisis (1933, repr. 1969); R. A. Dahl, A Preface to Democratic Theory (1956, repr. 1963) and Democracy and its Critics (1989); M. I. Finley, Democracy Ancient and Modern (1973); C. B. MacPherson, Democratic Theory (1973); J. Mansbridge, Beyond Adversary Democracy (1982); B. R. Barber, Strong Democracy: Participatory Democracy for a New Age (1984); P. Green, Retrieving Democracy: In Search of Civic Equality (1985); F. Bealey, Democracy in the Contemporary State (1988); T. E. Cronin, Direct Democracy (1989); M. H. Hansen, The Athenian Democracy in the Age of Demosthenes (tr. 1999).
The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition Copyright© 2004, Columbia University Press. Licensed from Lernout & Hauspie Speech Products N.V. All rights reserved.
To willybill:
What is even more disgusting is that we’ve financed all this with our tax dollars!
I must say I wasn’t that surprised by Nancy Pelosi’s behavior. But Jane “Homegrown Terrorism Act” Harman??!
Jane “The destroying of torture tapes would be a bad idea” Harman??
Woah.
There is no wiggle room with regard to torure. Either you support the intentional infliction of pain in order to break another human being-or you do not. It’s that simple.
Pelosi needs to go. There is no excuse of any kind that will be sufficient. I am-and always will be-completely and totally opposed to torture; and I don’t care what the stakes are. Opposed. Period.
I support Pelosi, she was in that room alone without any advisors, unable to take notes and who knows how this info was piled on and it all occured right after 9-11.
Ok so maybe some waterboarding did go on- the government should fess up to it and also just plain admit once in a while that they were wrong. Wrong because of the history of this country NOT doing that and providing a day in court and we do not dissappear people. We need to get back to that and it can only be done if we admit we were wrong.
Pelosi should start the ball rolling- I’ll call her office tomorrow- 202-225-3121.
Pelosi has a nice pear.
Pelosi is a piece of shit.
That’s why they call them “Vichy Democrats”
Hey! stop insulting the good names of scum and shit.
they both have their place in the universe.
Unlike politicians.
I look at this photo and just cringe! The Chimp’s smirk says, “I have you in my pocket.” And, what is Ms. Pelosi’s awareness of this situation? Well, she looks ecstatic…or?
Secrecy for national security? Or, to repel full responsibility in case shit hits the fan?
What clouded these peoples’ thinking on this? Smoke screens, mirrors, slight of hand, or valium in their drinking water?
This is yet another horrifying view of our government at work.
“…waterboarding — a form of simulated drowning…”
WRONG!!! Waterboarding is a form of CONTROLLED drowning in which the victim can’t breath in without ingesting water into the lungs and gagging, producing suffocation, intense pain and terror, and near or complete death.
The Washington Post is simply parroting the regime spin by calling it “simulated” drowning.
The deliberate infliction of physical or mental pain or suffering for the purposes of punishment or coercion is torture by definition. Bush lied when he said “This country does not torture.” It certainly does! And it is done on orders from the top.
Bush is a war criminal and should be tried and punished. Impeach Bush & Cheney, and indict them plus Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle and the rest of the neocon PNAC gang for war crimes!
Long past time to get rid of this treasonous bitch
Well, we can all take another moment now to
HATE NANCY PELOSI!!! UGH!!! HATE! HATE!
and all the other Democrats (Dummycrats, Vichycrats) too.
But a bit of perspective would seem warranted. 2002 was, by definition, months after 9/11/2001.
It took a lot of us far too long to catch on to the real meaning of “waterboarding” and understand that it is not “simulated drowning,” it’s actual drowning, just usually cut short.
It took a lot of us, most of the country in fact, far too long to recognize how wrong and how dangerous our response to 9/11 was.
Not me, mind you. I was out in the streets for peace and reason the very day after. But most of my fellow countrymen were pretty slow on the uptake about all this.
So, I’m not too surprised if Pelosi & Co. missed their cues, too. I’m more interested in what they are doing today, and I’m not satisfied with that, either.
I really would like to see Cindy Sheehan defeat Pelosi and take her seat in Congress. Unfortunately, due to Cindy’s insistence on running as an independent instead of challenging Pelosi in the Democratic primary, I don’t think there is very much chance of that happening.
Abbybwood..Not to get picky, but it’s more likely we have financed this with our children and grandkids futures..if indeed they have any. I think most of our tax bucks are going to pay the interest that the Rothchilds et al have been burdening this country with for close to 100 years. Or should I say, “financially raping our country with for….”?
As an aside, isn’t it possible for the voters in Pelosi’s district to RECALL bush’s concubine? Hey, Cindy, let’s jump on that!
This proves the values of our culture are totally corrupt. Nobody in power will speak against such vile practices, nor protect those the law is designed to protect. And why not? Because they are afraid they will lose votes: they listen to basest among us, the ones who think foreign countries should be nuked, the ones who celebrate “heroes” who torture and abuse and saw off heads. They think they must curry favour with such people to be elected, and since to be elected is all they care about, they curry favour with vigour. We should beware of what comes next - the voters who deliver power will be happy to persecute immigrants and liberals and leftists.
What a damn shame, a few years ago I thought she would be a good president. __ I’m easy, and wasn’t as informed as I am since finding Common Dreams.
WHAT A 4 PLUS DISGRACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How long will it take to get her out of the position of Speaker and OUT OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES..
SAN FRANCISCIANS RISE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“In fairness, the environment was different then because we were closer to Sept. 11 and people were still in a panic,” said one U.S. official present during the early briefings. “But there was no objecting, no hand-wringing. The attitude was, ‘We don’t care what you do to those guys as long as you get the information you need to protect the American people.’ ”
Of course, we’re using 20/20 hindsight now, but can we really rely on folks who are so willing to give up on the Geneva convention protocols knowing that they are then giving the green light to the enemy to do the same?
Character matters. At least, it should.
Character? In this Congress? In this government? Well, maybe Byrd, Ron Paul, Kucinich..Ted kennedy (not sure), Leahy, Sanders. Don’t we vote these folks in because they know more than the average bear? As our reps, aren’t they there to see what we do not and cannot perceive? Aren’t we supposed to depend upon their judgement and integrity? Does “panic” forgive that dive into immorality? Not in my book. AND, when things calmed down, they could have come to their moral sensibility and rescinded what was done in such panic and haste. Did they even do that? And, even when they put forth any effort, bush’s friggin signing statements voided any progress. And they continued to keep silent. Wait a second, President bush..what’s going on with these signing statements. This is not acceptable….nothing…silence! Despicable behavior! NO EXCUSES!
Ok folks, we need to disseminate this information EVERYWHERE. It does not surprise me that the MSM did not mention any of this. So we need to do it! I am sending a copy of this article to everyone I know.
Send copies of that picture with Bush and Pelosi to everyone you know too. I wonder if Bush is a getting a little side action with Pelosi and Laura knows nothing about it??
I was in a panic on the days after Sept 11 too.
I was panicking from a realization that this was to be Bush’s burning Reichstag and my countries descent into Fascism would begin in earnest. Someone other than Barbara Lee in our opposition party should have been entertaining the same fears.
My fears were a bit exaggerated in that it is taking a bit longer than I imagined back in 2001, but it is happening just the same.
Anyone ever see any old movies about the Gestapo? Or read any books about the Gestapo? If you wanted descriptions of what ‘waterboarding’ is, that’s all you had to do. Waterboarding was a Gestapo torture … uh, ‘enhanced interrogation’ technique.
Exactly how little imagination do you have to have in order not to grasp that being tied to a board so they could easily hold your head under water until you were drowning is not a wonderful thing to be doing to another human being? Nancy Pelosi and the other top Dems sat in a room, listened to this, did not object. And at the very best sat their silently while the Republicans asked for more and worse torture.
Its time to abandon the Democrats. They’ve long since abandoned us, and also anything decent or good about America. Its easy to do. First, switch your voter registration away from Democrat. Then find another candidate who believes in what you believe in and start working for their campaign. And don’t vote Democrat!
I am surprised that no one has mentioned that the most appropriate reaction to this news would be to send a contribution to the Cindy Sheehan campaign.
That picture with Pelosi and the monkey suggests that there is a finger involved somewhere. The monkey has a shit-eating grin and Pelosi looks like an orgasm could be near. Perhaps this explains why she loves him so much. I wish she would just blow him…Maybe THAT would receive some attention from the media. Murder, torture, human rights, veterans care, etc., surely doesn’t.
PJD,
I am sure that the Cindy Sheehan campaign is all over this one. We should send this information out to other people and ask that they too contribute to Cindy’s campaign.
Amnesty International has a film on ’stress positions’ called “Waiting for the guards.”
http://www.unsubscribe-me.org/waitingfortheguards.php
Too bad they didn’t have a teaching aid for Pelosi and the other Dems so they of such little imagination could actually understand the pain and agony that WE, US, OUR GOVERNMENT is inflicting on people TODAY, RIGHT NOW, in OUR NAME!
To donate to Ms. Sheehan’s campaign, go to http://www.cindyforcongress.org/. There are ‘donate’ links at the top and bottom of the page.
Daniel David: “”
I completely agree.
willybill:
Where are we supposed to send your suggested ballot to?
Thanks,
Dory
The Democrats have been in bed with the GOP ever since Reagan, so why did everyone on the left decide to start bitching about it NOW? Could it be because Republican ideology was o.k. with them as long as it was working?
We were cleverly and carefully conned, but enough of us voted for these people to put them into office. And if there’s one thing politicians like to do, it’s get put into office. So, if we hadn’t been so easily conned iin the first place, none of this would have happened. But now we know. Some of us do, anyway.
So what do we do now? Maybe the first thing we need to do is realize that we’ve all been tortured, psychologically, for years. We’ve been subjected to a clever fear campaign designed to make us think that there are terrorists behind every Bush (sorry, I couldn’t help it). We’ve also been subjected to a campaign designed to jack us into a state of depression, basically by taking important things away from us, like jobs and health care and social security and civil liberties and so on, until we can barely think straight enough to go to Walmart and buy something we don’t need in an attempt to stave off our depression. Oh, and as an aside, when people get really scared and/or depressed is when they are most subject to turning to religious fanaticism as a way out, and no one is easier to manipulate than a frightened and depressed religious fanatic. Just ask Osama Bin Laden.
And once we understand that we’ve been subjected to a campaign of torture, maybe we should just stop putting up with it. Maybe we should just stop rewarding our torturers. Maybe we should stop voting for them and stop buying the products they sell.
And, yeah, I’ve said this before, but maybe we should spread the word about Kucinich, because he’s the one we should reward, he’s the one who was never involved in our collective torture and/or depression-causing attacks.
Dory..Apologies…somehow the bottom was cut off…ignotzle@windstream.net
One foul Skank…..the Republicrate is nothing more than a female Lieberman…
A nation of sheep, led by a cartel of whores controlled by Israel/big business. Welcome, to the REAL Evil Empire.
Harman’s objection was pretty weak, and sometimes I wonder if she’s really a Republican. As far as Pelosi is concerned, I used to think she was OK, but the more I find out about her, the more negative my opinion. The US is a plutocracy and she is a firmly entrenched plutocrat therein. I wish Cindy Sheehan the best of luck in replacing her.
That being said, I’ll say this in their defense. Consider the political risk that any elected official in the US, at any level was exposed to, who opposed the anti-Constitutional crap that went down after the WTC buildings did and then judge them. Remember the bird droppings and road dirt impregnated flags flying from the nation’s SUV’s, the lapel pins, and the bumper stickers advocating war, praising colors that didn’t run, supporting the monkey currently occupying the White House, etc. It seemed to me that practically everyone was indulged in that hysterical and mindless outpouring of nationalist fervor, and those who weren’t kept their mouths’ shut.
Speaking out against the crap would have been tantamount to treason, of being in league with “Osama bin”. In such an environment, should anyone today be surprised by the cowardliness then displayed by the greater part of the political establishment in the US. Can you really blame them? Are you old enough to remember? It seems so long ago.
Gee, I guess having the FBI & Wild Bill Donovan’s OSS guys bring the “Brightest” and “Best” Gestapo agents and lesser known war criminals to the US to work for us and train our guys after WWII wasn’t such a good idea after all.
Are those Jackboots I hear trooping down the street?
Bbb..But they said it could never happen here. Americans are “Different”, Americans are “Special”. They got the knowing of Freedom.
What nobody mentioned was our definition of Freedom: The capacity to do anything we want to any man, woman, or child that we want – especially people of color.
1609 - 2007, and going for the short quick drop from the scaffold.
We did this. Americans did this. Just like we got this place from Genocide. Just like we built this place with human slavery. We did this to ourselves. Yes, some of us “dissent”, in one way or another, to one degree or another – but never in the numbers or with the energy it takes to defeat an oppressive Ruling Class. Empires & Police States are like that. Americans simply turn their faces away. Just like they will turn their faces away when the trucks and the cattle cars start departing, with full loads, to the MCA gulags in West Texas. No one protested Stalin’s Gulags or Hitler’s Death Camps (and they didn’t have a population of 300 million to cull from). Besides, the protesters were already in the Camps. The rest knew better.
When the wine is bad, throw it out.
Peace.
In the recent Russian elections Putin’s United Russia won a majority of parliament but all but 12% Communists were allies of United Russia. How horrible I thought, but then a previous poster pointed out that essentially the Democrats are not an opposition party- just a few holdouts are actually opposing the government. We are probably in a similar proportion as Russia in spirit. The Dem Congress has been more worthless than my wildest dreams- we should really stop expecting opposition party behavior from them.
What is the process for dumping the speaker of the house?
WillyBill, my signature is on its way to you. Your referendum is brilliant! Thank you!
I suggest that everyone send it, along with a link to this article, to Keith Olbermann, Thom Hartmann, Randi Rhodes, RFK,Jr., Amy Goodman, Rachel Maddow, Ed Schultz, and your congressional representative. And include it in a letter to the editor of your local newspaper!
Disgusting. Deplorable. Is this why they won’t stop it? Because in a very real sense they own it.
In fairness, many of us were not panicked by 9/11. Many of us tried to prevent what was coming. All my representatives, one congressman and two senators, voted not to give Bush the power to invade Iraq. I hope that those who needed 20/20 hindsight the last time won’t need it the next time.
Long before “back then” waterboarding and things like it were ALREADY outlawed by world treaties the US had signed….So the Dimocraps care neither for international law nor The Constitution, obviously and yet again. When you vote, keep it simple—-OUT WITH ALL INCUMBENTS….
The headline says it all. No wonder impeachment is off the table and during the next year will never be on the table.
So Bu$h the inferior, Shotgun Dick, and Piss ant Pelosi are all war criminals due to approving waterboarding. We need to go down the entire list of Presidential successors to see if the town constable of Woodboro Wisconsin has to prepare for the oath of office as President.
That assumes of course that some day soon the Constitution is the law of the land. I am not holding my breath.
Ladies and gentlemen, how about we take this opportunity and use it as a Green Party advertisement?
Yesiree, I mean hell, the Demos have allowed themselves to be dragged so far right true progressives have been left well outside without a voice.
Screw’em. Let’s pump some umph into a third party. The demos just want our votes, but they’ll never give us what we want.
You know, sanity, decency, etc.
The problem with voting out the incumbents is, first of all, who you gonna vote for that will change anything?
And secondly, it’s nice and all that we educated and progressive elites know and care about this and have a forum such as this one, but there are, I don’t know, about 300 million or so people that don’t know, don’t care, are too preoccupied with more important things (to them, like Christmas shopping or where their next meal is coming from), or are just plain cynical after having seen this shit over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over……again.
So what happens when EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM BASTARDS are miraculously voted out of office (thereby proving that our democracy really does work)? THEN can we get down to the business of dealing with the real issues that affect everyone’s live to the greatest degree? Those being, of course, our unquenchable addiction to fossil fuels and the environmental and social havoc that it causes (i.e. peak oil and global warming) and the capitalistic system that has comodified every-fucking-thing on this planet, including our souls, while it preaches the doctrine of infinite consumption.
The problem with this is, WE LIVE IN A VERY FINITE WORLD.
I’m all for doing the right thing, but the reality is, nothing short of divine intervention is gonna save us.
May God bless the whole fucking world. We’re gonna need it.
This exposure of what we already knew about Pelosi—that she supports hideous, ugly crimes and rejects the rule of law and Art. 6 (2) of the Constitution—will help Cindy. Yeah!
I’m with you, John F. Butterfield. I wasn’t panicked. (My only point of confusion was why there was so much panic.)
What is worse, and still unsaid, is that the last people you want in power are those that, months after an event, can still be so panicked that they cannot think clearly.
Naturally, I don’t buy that cheap excuse; but, if that’s the argument they want to make: take it at face value, and they still come out losers.
Either they are despicable torture-approving royalists, or they are easily-discombobulated ditzes. Does either description appeal to anyone as qualifications for holding office?
The overwhelming majority of members of Congress ought to go.
Jack37
NO!
We must keep a few, like Kucinich and Feingold!
I’d rather move the former to the White House, but, never out of office altogether. (I limit myself here to wanting Kucinich in the White House only because Feingold isn’t running.)
Einstein said it best: “You can’t solve a problem with the same mind-set that got you into the problem in the first place”.
That means the problems with our democracy will not be solved democratically, and global warming and peak oil will not be solved technologically.
Eying the tight faced tart by his side, the pursed lipped pervert president whispered,
“dontcha jis love power? makes me all tingly inside”.
“oh Mr. President” replied the giggling tart, “you’re such a naughty boy”.
Yes, I am ashamed of what my country is doing. And yes we the taxpayers have made it possible and even to the point the next five generations ( if the world lasts that long ) to pay off this debt. What can a handful of non-violent people do ? Sign Willy’s thing yes. We have avoided “hanging” with democrats but only to give those few votes to the republicans. How about if we go to the democrat’s stuff and get our people elected in that party ? Grassroots this and do it, what have we got to lose ?
Perhaps I’m mistaken, but I appreciate getting pictures of opposite-party politicians side-by-side like the pic. of Pelosi and Bush in this article. I have a feeling that the (sickening) great enjoyment Pelosi is expressing, and Bush’s usual dumb-look of joy, just seeming less excited than Pelosi appears to be; well, I have a feeling that this provides some real signal or message to carefully be considered.
Of course to understand the message requires knowing the context, but we know what that is in this case.
So, my hunch is that they both know to be extremely criminal, liar, etc., and at least Pelosi, if not also Bush, knows that they’re both extremely ANTI-Constitutional, very criminal, frauds, etc. And they think they’re really getting away scot-free with their crimes, while pretending, to both themselves and the public, as well as many political peers, to be innocent, unaware of being criminal and anti-constitutional.
Iow, and while I’m not so sure about Bush, for while he sometimes speaks as a really smooth-talker, that seems to only be after he’s received some serious coaching on what he’s to say to the public; well, as for at least Pelosi, I cannot believe for a second that she’s not very aware that she is extremely criminal and anti-constitutional, while she surely, likely enough anyway, also believes that the power elites will keep her well protected from being held accountable and impeached, i.e., outed, tried, convicted, and imprisoned. After all, she knows she’s really working very much for the power elites and that they’re going to show her some real though criminal gratitude, favours.
It’s how organised crime works, and what the article is about IS organised crime.
And most cons know that they’re cons; most thieves know when they’re stealing; etc. And that applies to even the least bright of them all.
Bush might be somewhat of an exception; he’s awfully dumb. He sometimes seems bright enough, while of course criminal, for he rarely says anything that isn’t obviously criminal, well, when he sometimes seems bright enough when he speaks like a real smooth-talker; but, and again, I’ve only noticed him speaking that way after what struck me as surely having been real coaching so that he’s then very prepared for what he’s going to be saying. When he doesn’t receive, or at least appears to not have received this coaching, then that he’s awfully dumb “shines brightly”, that is, it’s (dark, but) strikingly obvious; like some real demons must’ve been trying to play a sick joke on the world in appointing him to the presidency of the world’s then sole superpower (for a little while longer, fortunately very little, I believe and hope).
Is that only a like (real demons …) matter though?
Pelosi’s therefore a real and wicked sociopath, a very criminal one, but apparently nowhere as dumb as Bush. I won’t believe that she’s not like fully, more than enough, aware of her criminality, despotism, etc. She might be dumb enough to kid herself about maintaining strong voter support, and I sure hope she doesn’t retain that. If she’s re-elected and really elected, instead of through fraudulent elections, then the voters would do the world a favour by … suicide.
It’s awfully bad enough that extremely criminal people have been elected to public office and at high levels; it’s atrociously worse that such people have been [re]-elected, again and again; but it’ll be “Oh MY GOD!” atrociously, horrendously, terrifyingly, … HELLishly worse, yet, if they again get re-elected next time around. Damn! Duh! Etc.! They should all be imprisoned and MANY of them for the rest of their earthly lives; unless The People form strong-mass LYNCH MOBS and … trim out some of this EXCESS human population consisting of criminals who would otherwise need to be jailed for the rest of their earthly lives. Of course unless the latter option is applied, then the former minimally needs to be applied.
I’m against the death penalty, but would be able to sleep just fine with this criminals being shown to the EXIT DOOR from this world, too. It would not interrupt my sleep. But it’s in a sense always sad when the death penalty is applied, for humanity should be above committing crimes society or govt rules that the death penalty or brutal treatment, punishment is required. It’s [usually] not required, and that’s if it ever is; but if the U.S. federal govt and therefore Congress, Senate, and Executive Branch, as well as DoJ choose for it to be applicable, the death penalty, then they should also never be above the laws they enforce against others, either.
Anyway, I’m sure that I’d be able to sleep … just fine.
In the photo of Nancy and George, a caption should have said, “Let Them Eat Cake”.
You former Pelosi admirers, don’t feel bad. I was one too. The same goes for Barbara Boxer. She turned out to be a fraud, also.
It is all about money and power. They stay glued together the world over. Emma Goldman was way ahead of her time. She knew the score.
Come on, Daniel David, I want to hear your defense of the Democrats here and how electing more of them are going to solve all our problems.
“That picture with Pelosi and the monkey suggests that there is a finger involved somewhere. The monkey has a shit-eating grin and Pelosi looks like an orgasm could be near. Perhaps this explains why she loves him so much. I wish she would just blow him…Maybe THAT would receive some attention from the media. Murder, torture, human rights, veterans care, etc., surely doesn’t.”
mainconnector I had a similar impression.
Caption “50 years of sucking dick has finally paid off - I’M standing next to THE PRESIDENT!!!”
The RICO laws should be used to put most of the politicians in Washington in prison.
What are the swines at Democratic Underground going to use now as an excuse to keep voting Democratic?
And when are they apologizing to Ralph Nader?
The RICO laws should be used to put most of the politicians in Washington in prison.
NO WONDER IMPEACHMENT IS OFF THE TABLE.
IMPEACH PELOSI.
IMPEACH CONGRESS
IMPEACH BUSH
IMPEACH THE ENTIRE US GOVERNMENT
The three political branches of our government in the best vernacular I can think of are/is… bogus.
I agree, no wonder impeachment is off the table. Go Cindy Sheehan!
Perhaps we can start with a citizen’s award for the bureaucrats who have stood up to the adversity of politicians who lie, cheat, steal and now torture. I heard the reason that the NIE was released because if else career bureaucrats were going to leak it.
Ignoring Washington and legislating at the State and Local level makes sense. In my view, our futures are better served by concentrating our efforts within our States. The more we can do apart from Washington the better. It will not take Washington long to realize that they have been rendered mostly irrelevant in the minds and actions of the people. The sooner the better. The above does not preclude voting in the next National election.
One further idea: I believe that we should allow undocumented immigrants to run for and hold federal office to do the work that American Senators and Representatives refuse to do.
This country ain’t worth saving. We’ve been taken over by a bunch of Zionist-Neocons hell bent on a war economy based on torture, financial engineering, lies, insane support of Israel, and fear of Iran. Our only enemy in the entire world is Israel. Cut them off and hold Israel and the US accountable for their illegal actions against the world and the American people will be greeted as liberators.
Done deal. Peace
Ugh! How disgusting. That picture makes me nauseous. Oust Pelosi:
http://www.cindyforcongress.org/article.php?preview=1&cache=0&id=38
Bill Moyers had a program this weekend on how the media manages to badmouth female politicians.
This is what a number of people have done in this discussion- complete disrespectful fowlmouthed crap.
Pelosi made a mistake to agree with the waterboarding in 2002. She should have been smart enough to realize that the neocons were telling her things so that they could have her stamp of approval.
These politicians like Pelosi are afraid that they will not get reelected unless they are tough.
Bush has now finally proven that it is wrong to be tough.
Obama is flexible and hopeful and does not negotiate with fear but with rationale.
Pelosi should apologize that she made a mistake- she was out there supporting Bush in 2002 when everybody - except you and I - were doing that.
The picture tells the whole story. The dems and repugs are in this together and we’re f__ked.
See that faint yellow-brown line along the horizon? That’s the ring around the piss-stained toilet bowl we’ve been cast into. My advice is to invest in a good raincoat, ’cause its probably going to get worse before it gets better.
P.S. - This country is worth saving, the question is can it be saved in time? Seriously, go out and get that raincoat. You’ll thank me next time Dubya has a case of “the whiskey shits”.
If you wanted to cast someone to play the part of Satan in a horror movie, you need look no further than that picture. He cannot hide it, pictures do not lie.
Frankly, I’m surprised he photographs at all.
Seems to me the first original 10 BILL OF RIGHTS, we have 2 left, actually. Amendments II and VII. So we can pack heat and remain as litigious as all get out.
I have been doing all I can to rid us of the criminally insane in this administration, Pelosi, Mdm. Speaker, bitch, she should be so out of there. I view my Rep. as exactly that my representative, my voice as a CITIZEN.
If something does not change, yeah I know, it does not change but honestly I am gone, giving up citizenship, south of France, my 7 pooches, my cigarettes, yeah, yeah, and they can take my money. Not $1.00 of my money to fund any war ever, finis…
Dear America,
Please put down the Big Mac, turn off American Idol, get your fat lazy ass up off the couch, wake the FUCK UP and take back control of your country. The rest of the world is depending on you to save us from your fascist government.
canuckchuck,
You need to take that message to the MSM. Folks around here are very much awake and it ain’t just the coffee.
Oh, damn. The MSM wouldn’t touch your message with a ten foot pole… even cleaned up a tad. The MSM is, after all, part of the Matrix.
What to do, what to do….
Any reasonably intelligent child can understand the opposition (sic) party’s complicity in torture.
Waterboarding to get information from people involved in 911 and the war afterwards.
Not waterboarding the right people.
Nineteen Arabs with box cutters, right.
Wake the hell up folks, the country has already been stolen.
Time to take it back for the sake of sanity.
its like i have been saying all along, Pelosi is on her knees in front of Bush, with Cheney on his knees behind her.
Any liberals just signing in to CD; don’t be discouraged this is merely the usual pack of marauding Hyena’s baying at the moon.
No you did not accidentally tune in to the Rush Limbaugh show.
These dem haters (Bush facilitators) salivate like Pavlov’s dogs every time an article on CD portrays the dems in a bad light.
This is the manna from heaven these howling ghouls wait for, a chance to show how stupid they are, by shouting incoherent slurs against the party that has the only chance of stopping the Republican maniacs and saving this country from a total right wing coup.
Yes, I proudly proclaim that I love Nancy.
I hate Gingrich, I hate Hastert, I hate Delay, I hate Cheney, I hate Bush, and I love Nancy.
In my opinion she is the best thing to happen to America since Betsy Ross, what a courageous daring lady, wrestling the Peoples House away from those thugs mentioned above. An incredible feat.
And she won this victory despite the fact that so many progressives have in frustration turned to a dead end, support for a third party.
Remember folks this woman voted against giving Bush authorization to invade Iraq.
“The president led us into the Iraq war on the basis of unproven assertions without evidence; he embraced a radical doctrine of pre-emptive war unprecedented in our history; and he failed to build a true international coalition.”
“I have absolutely no regret about my vote against this war. The same questions remain. The cost in human lives, the cost to our budget……”
Nancy Pelosi
I want to thank all of you - well I just woke up with a nightmare- why would i want to thank you- because you made me THINK about this whole topic. Pelosi wanted to get information and she is on the intelligence committee and the deal is that she must keep secret whatever she learns and now it is thrown back into her face that she remained silent and was told!!! The lie in the White House is ensnaring and infecting the others who are in the net too- then Pelosi said that impeachment is off the table- because she herself wants to be reelected and look tough- as I said- looking tough is no longer needed now that the toughtest looking is Bush and he got us into tragic waters. Now the irony- Pelosi hersoelf might be thrown out of office by Cindy Sheehan- who I think is not up to any Congressman job but she has won the prize for shear courage- This is a Greek tragedy coming to life before our eyes- The seriousness of the leader of the world, George Bush. starting this machine in motion due to a invitation by irreligious insane small number of people.
If this is true than Pelosi is complicit to War Crimes. She, along, with much of the Bush administration should be arrested. How very sad that women in politics have been just as awful as men. (Maggie Thacher!!)
The posters on CD make it sound like the democrats have an overwhelming majority in Congress. NOT
While it is true the dems have a firm grip on the House we barely have a majority in the Senate.
The Senate breaks down as follows;
Democrats 49 Seats
Republicans 49 Seats
Independents 2 Seats
The two Independents, Lieberman and Sanders have chosen to caucus with the Democrats giving them a slim majority of 51 to 49.
If Lieberman decides to throw his allegiance to the Republicans the Senate will switch to Republican control since the VP would decide a tie.
As we all know Lieberman is a true warmonger and if the Democrats push too hard to end the war or impeach the president Joe Momentum will switch parties.
Hello out there, these are the facts like them or not.
There is no way, no how, that it is possible to get anywhere with impeachment proceedings or a strong effort to end the war now. Hello, what is it about this equation that you have trouble understanding?
The votes are just not there.
And at the rate we progressives are going they may never be there.
Is it so difficult to contemplate that we need a larger majority in the Senate and a Democrat in the white house before we can begin unraveling the mess that Bush and his gang made?
You “practical people” who support the “democrats” need to stop talking to us as though we were children. It is your strategy that has landed us in this mess. Every bit of political energy people have has been poured into this black hole democratic party nonsense. You’ve all stood in the way of any kind of independent mobilization for years. And now that you’ve painted us all into a corner, you blame us because you can’t win a game with a deck that’s stacked to begin with.
We’ve told you motherfuckers for years that the DLC was consolidating its hold on the “democratic” party, making it an institition that responds only to big dollar donors, and you keep pointing us in that direction. Do us all a favor and get the fuck out of the way. Now.
Now, motherfuckers. Now.
Yes, Pelosi is no good. But can we please skip the sexist insults?
nancy has always been in bed with george w. if not literally,at the very least..figuratively.she ‘pretended’ her way right into the speaker of the house job,she is from a long line of elitists and people need to be more aware of the alliances of their candidates,before electing them to public office.cindy s. has all the right qualities,but i still have a problem with her accepting the challenge…without demanding the impeachment of the liar bush,first.election is not impeachment…our system is a broken one and ghouls occupy our highest offices…so tell me why cindy wants to JOIN them ?????????????
A nice pear is not an insult. That’s a compliment.
Get out of the way you immoral democrats the Nader people are taking over, maybe this time they might even garner more than 3% of the vote. Wow how impressive.
I guess we will stop talking to the dem haters like children, when they stop acting like out of control children throwing a temper tantrum.
BUSH 10 VOTES
GORE 10 VOTES
NADER 2 VOTES
Now would any of you stalwart Green Party members sacrifice making a statement long enough to cast a deciding vote in the general election or is it a statement of protest your more interested in?
We dems did our part to stop the maniac from taking office, did you Green Party advocates do anything besides help Nader drive this country off a cliff?
No of course not you could never condescend to vote for a dem those people are evil just the the repubs. So who is the facilitator?
When will you people learn that the democratic party can have candidates like Kucinich and Obama if we support these type of people.
The Republicans will never field a liberal and the Greens are going nowhere fast.
Currently there are no black members of congress from the republican party they are all democrats.
Abandon all hope and vote for a third party cannot win candidate, it is certainly your prerogative, but please do not complain when Rudy goes to war with Iran and start blaming the dems for not stopping him.
That photo is easily worth ‘1,000-words’ (as are similar, like Slick-Willie with Bush-41…).
“Good-cop/Bad-cop”…both ‘cops’, in the end. They have a legitimate-function to perform, but don’t assume it conjoins with YOUR-interests (other than in-appearance).
[The police also swear to ‘protect and defend’ the Public…but once they are addressing you as an ‘individual’, YOU (and their subsequent-behaviors/Actions) are ’suspect’.]
Nancy “Let Them Eat Cake– Off the Table” Pelosi isn’t bothered by waterboarding.
She only wishes she could waterboard all of those anti-war protesters who keep turning up on her lawn and diminishing her quality of life!
SEQUOIABISON - Before you bash those fed up enough with the democratic party to try to work outside of it, why not ask why the democratic party is so incredibly screwed up? If you want to bring those people back into the ‘fold’, throw them a bone. Allow instant-runoff elections. That would allow a person to vote their principles first regardless of the party of the candidate, and would then allow them to vote with their practical side if they choose to do so, and many would do so by voting for a democrat as a second or third choice. This would do much to embrace the idealism of those people, and at the same time would eventually bring the Democratic party in line with something that could be regarded as morality and honesty. I for one am totally fed up with the democrats. I’m not saying that I like the republicans any more, far from it. Instead I am saying I am not giving my tacit approval for the Democratic party until they move themselves as a whole to something I could at least tacitly support. I don’t see that now. Maybe in the future, maybe for some individual candidates, but not now. Largely all that I see is hypocracy. They will have to earn my vote now that they have lost it. Call me an idealist, but I refuse to agree that my only choices in these matters is now and forever will be either the democratic party or the republican party. I am no longer playing along with that game.
IMPEACH PELOSI!
SEQUOIABISON
Sure there is. As to warmaking, it’s simple. Congressional leaders can refuse to bring any more of Bush’s demands for war funding to the floor for a vote.
And as for impeachment, all the House needs to do is issue Articles of Impeachment and a House vote with a simple majority of ONE to send the cited crimes to the Senate for a trial, where House members serve as prosecutors. There is time enough for the House to draw up Articles of Impeachment by the next election, though not enough time to complete a trial in the Senate.
But this is all we need from Congress, that the administration be criminally-indicted for the sake of America and history. After the Bush administration has left office, other agencies can prosecute the administration for war-crimes and other felonies.
Unsmilingly, she continued: “If they were poor and they were sleeping on my sidewalk, they would be arrested for loitering, but because they have ‘Impeach Bush’ across their chest, it’s the First Amendment…
I found that to be the most telling insight into Pelosi in an unguarded moment..
Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?…Are there no prisons..
SEQUIABISON:
Ideas and evidence matter, and I’m afraid that they aren’t on your side in your effort to slander the lefties who do not sublimate their principles to party politics.
A “Bush enabler” would be someone who supports Bush policies. Greens and lefties do not; Nancy Pelosi does.
Please … work with us.
anney
Once again you fail to mention the Lieberman factor, which Nancy is well aware of, if impeachment moves forward Lieberman quits the dems and moves over to the repubs.
The dems now no longer have even a simple majority no less the 60 votes it would require to move it from filibuster to actual vote.
Hello, deal with it maturely and face reality, the votes are not there a fact you might find hard to accept but this is the situation.
No amount of slandering the dems is going to change the direction of the country, the opposite is true, defection from the dems to a third party will definitely worsen the problem.
Stay true to your misguided beliefs that the war and the economy is a democratic party problem and wave goodbye to the America you once knew.
Support the party of Kucinich and Kennedy and Dean and Fiengold and Obama and maybe we might have a chance to start anew.
It has been charged that the facts are not on my side and it is time to hang Nancy.
Please tell me what facts you have that Nancy supported torture or any other charges you might have?
These accusations are just speculation and since it fits your preconceived opinion of this great lady who needs facts. Guilty as Charged.
Do you actually believe I would support a party that you guys portray as the Democratic Party. Sorry but I do not recognize anyone you guys keep slandering.
Every word you write condemning the Dems should be substituted for Repubs and then it might be recognizable.
And please do not try and push Nader on us, he is a self righteous lying hypocrite.
Do you really think I am that shallow that I would abandon the party of Jefferson, Jackson, FDR AND JFK because you guys are spreading false propaganda about the party?
Not a chance.
SEQUOIABISON
The factor YOU omit is that Nancy Pelosi has supported the Bush administration on every single Constitutional violation he’s committed. And I haven’t omitted the “Lieberman factor” at all from my understanding of how funding and impeachment work. He should never be counted on for anything at all by Democrats and they can do what they must without him.
The Democrats are the ones who need to face reality and deal with it maturely. They’ve abandoned their progressive base and will have to take their lumps for that decision. It means a loss of many many votes that they were able to garner in 2006 on the basis of promises to end the war and stop Bush’s criminal activities. Instead, they’re colluding in them now, and it’s visible for the whole world to see.
Wake up, and get real yourself! The Democrats have cut their own throats with voters, and none of the frontrunners has even spoken about restoring America’s Constitutional governing structure, which would mean an immediate cessation/voiding of all illegal administration activities, including “unitary executive power”. Why would anybody want to vote for Democrats when they can’t even bring themselves to talk about it?
As I’ve said before, the next election will be decided by the least-knowledgeable voters in America. We’ll all have to live with the next president, Republican or Democrat, and a continuation of the unitary executive powers Bush has grabbed and a wrecked Constitution.
Where are Batman and Robin when we really need them?
God told me, I’ve never told anyone before ” Little George, You are just the Profit Hero we need to End Time the World so My Only Son (aside: Wink Wink) can come back (he has been living in my Basement long enough now) …. So fight as many Wars as you can get away with and keep it all a secret (National Security) and you will be my Profit (Tool) to begin revelations (Revolution).
Well How am I doin Folks?
War and Peace,
President George W Bush
….. Hey, Who inserted those asides?
The way the drunken weasel looks at Pelousy says it all. A picture is worth a thousand words. She’s his b*tch, no doubt about it.
KEM — we went over this before, as with Superman and all superheroes,
The notion that defection from the Dems to a third party would ensure national disaster resulting from a Repub. reelection is far too pesimistic.
Defection may not promise speedy results though it has the great potential to peturb the ever-inward spiralling together of politics under the two-party system.
khaake- I agree “They will have to earn my vote now that they have lost it.”
Sequoiabison- you’re taking a play from the republican handbook (all blame, no substance) all it does is divide us. Our elected officials are supposed to work for us, if they can’t do the job they promised and were hired to do, sorry, but they have to go.
Sometimes when your best friend screws up the best thing to do is tell them, I do that with my vote.
Huh. Normally one would think there is a ruling party, there is an opposition and sometimes a bi-partisan consent to achieve the goal of getting the best for the citizenry.
What a nice dream that is. In reality there is no two parties, there is one big institution called
‘Government’ consisting of members that are well known for their lack of everything that makes
a honorable person. Not only that. Worldwide a disease is spreading that needs our immediate attention.
It is the growing mentality of the government worker to act in ways that implies that they are
indeed above their employers, the people, You, John Doe, me and everybody else.
Abandon the electoral system for it is always the precursor for total control of the citizenry.
Everywhere.
Or Green Arrow and Speedy.
Pelosi must be replaced! If you can help do it this would be a major help for America1
Lovely article from Harper’s:
Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man’s need but not for man’s greed »
Check out this excellent Harper’s article, about the bigger legal issues (the laws they fail to enforce and why):
Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man’s need but not for man’s greed »
Get Pelosi out.
Just another political nihilist like Hillary and Kerry.
Before this story broke lose, I gave her the benefit of the doubt-I’m hurting now.