UN: Tasers Are A Form Of Torture
“Stun Guns” Are Under Fire After Six Deaths This Week; Rallies Held Demanding They Be Banned
(CBS/AP) - A United Nations committee said Friday that use of Taser weapons can be a form of torture, in violation of the U.N. Convention Against Torture.
Use of the electronic stun devices by police has been marked with a sudden rise in deaths - including four men in the United States and two in Canada within the last week.
Canadian authorities are taking a second look at them, and in the United States, there is a wave of demands to BAN them.
The U.N. Committee Against Torture referred Friday to the use of TaserX26 weapons which Portuguese police has acquired. An expert had testified to the committee that use of the weapons had “proven risks of harm or death.”
“The use of TaserX26 weapons, provoking extreme pain, constituted a form of torture, and that in certain cases it could also cause death, as shown by several reliable studies and by certain cases that had happened after practical use,” the committee said in a statement.
Tasers have become increasingly controversial in the United States, particularly after several notorious cases where their use by police to disable suspects was questioned as being excessive. Especially disturbing is the fact that six adults died after being tased by police in the span of a week.
Last Sunday, in Frederick, Md., a sheriff’s deputy trying to break up a late-night brawl tased 20-year-old Jarrel Grey. He died on the spot.
“I want to know what he did that was so bad,” the victim’s mother, Tanya James, said. “Did the deputy think that their life was in danger? Did he have a weapon?”
The death came just weeks after Frederick police used a Taser to subdue a high school student.
Black leaders held a rally Tuesday calling for the department to ban Tasers, at least until there is a clear policy on how they are used. The NAACP says it appears the sheriff’s office is using Tasers routinely, rather than as a weapon of last resort.
Also this week, in Jacksonville, Fla., in two separate cases two men died after being stunned.
One suspect, who fled a car crash and tried to break into a nearby home, struggled with a policeman, prompting the officer to tase him three times. The man continued to fight, and tried to bite the officer, while he was being tased. He was later pronounced dead at a hospital.
Another man died Tuesday after a Jacksonville officer pulled over his car. When the officer approached it, the man took off running. When the officer caught up with him, during a struggle, authorities say the officer used his Taser to subdue the suspect.
After being placed in the back of the police car the suspect became unresponsive. He was taken to the hospital where he was pronounced dead.
Last Sunday, in New Mexico, 20-year-old Jesse Saenz died after Raton police used a Taser to subdue him. Police say Saenz was struggling and fighting with them as they attempted to take him into custody.
Saenz died after being transported to a county jail.
In Nova Scotia, a 45-year-old man who was jailed on assault charges jumped a counter and ran for the door as he was being booked. He died yesterday, about 30 hours after being shocked.
And in Vancouver, where Royal Candian Mounted Police have been criticized for their use of a Taser against an irate airline passenger at Vancouver Airport last month, 36-year-old Robert Knipstrom died in a hospital four days after police used a Taser, pepper spray and batons to subdue him.
Police earlier said Knipstrom was agitated, aggressive and combative with officers. The cause of death has yet to be determined.
More than a dozen people have died in Canada after being hit by Tasers in the last four years.
The reported incidents this week did not have cameras documenting the use of the Tasers, but in British Columbia, a tourist’s video camera recorded the death of a man tased twice while in custody at the Vancouver Airport last month.
That horrifying video shows Robert Dziekanski, a Polish man who spoke no English, become increasingly agitated. He was shocked twice, and then died.
The stun guns were denounced at memorial rallies in Vancouver and Toronto for Dziekanski.
Among the 1,000 people at the Vancouver rally was Paul Pritchard, who shot the video of the confrontation at the city airport.
The crowd gave a hero’s welcome to Pritchard, who said he “saw the life drain out of a man’s face” and heard “blood-curdling screams.”
A rally in front of the Ontario legislature in Toronto drew several hundred people, including Bob Rae, a Liberal candidate in the next federal election.
Rae said the events leading up to Dziekanski’s death must “never, ever be allowed to happen again.”
The prominent - and sensational - reports of deaths following the use of Tasers has increased attention to their legitimacy, and prompted a bold defense by their manufacturer.
Taser International, based in Scottsdale, Az., released a statement following the Vancouver Airport incident saying no deaths have ever been definitively connected to what the company describes as: “the low-energy electrical discharge of the Taser.”
That’s 50,000 volts.
“The video of the incident at the Vancouver airport indicates that the subject was continuing to fight well after the TASER application,” Taser International said. “This continuing struggle could not be possible if the subject died as a result of the Taser device electrical current causing cardiac arrest. [Dziekanski’s] continuing struggle is proof that the Taser device was not the cause of his death.
“Specifically in Canada, while previous incidents were widely reported in the media as ‘Taser deaths,’ the role of the Taser device has been cleared in every case to date,” Taser said.
The devices are used by about 12,000 police departments, often in chaotic situations.
Retired police officer Paul Mazzei told CBS News correspondent Joie Chen, “Minus the Taser, they would have to use an impact weapon like a baton, possibly pepper spray or in some extreme cases of violent behavior they might even have to use deadly force to control that individual.”
In fact, in New Mexico earlier this month, the parents of a suicidal woman who was shot to death by Bernalillo County deputies two years ago are suing, contending that the police should have used Tasers instead of firearms.
Brittany Wayne was killed in her bedroom 23 seconds after police arrived.
And in Utah, a patrol car’s dashboard camera caught an officer tasing a driver who refused to sign a speeding ticket. The officer is now under investigation, accused of being too quick on the draw.
Amid a growing outcry, civil rights groups are urging police to put down their Tasers until more research is done.
“The danger of Tasers is that they seem safe, they seem easy and therefore I think it’s natural that police will be inclined to use them much more quickly than they would ever use a gun,” Amnesty International USA Executive Director Larry Cox told Chen.
CBSNews.com producer David Morgan contributed to this report.
© MMVII, CBS Interactive Inc.
Sadly, tasers are also a weapon that all too often kill and all too often are used for little reason, other than a frightened cop loses it. If a person wishes to be a police officer, they should have the strength,training and fighting ability, to handle the nasty and often dangerous job. We don’t allow just any to become a Navy Seal for example. What happened to the use of billy clubs, five cell flashlghts and pepper spray when absolutelly necessary?
And why did this post come out in the bold font?
The media and community should be allowed to post the names of the law enforcement officers who kill using “non-lethal” force so that the community can publicly shame and hold them accountable.
30,000 people die everyday of hunger while tons of food rots, and the most powerful leaders of the developed and often obese nations do nothing to stop it. Our leaders are guilty of torture, and so are we for letting them get away with it.
Good editor here. It was corrected.
Technology run amuck again.
I was surprised to learn that shock devices are also used as a means of controlling dog behavior. Extremely sadistic. If I ever encountered someone with a dog wearing one of these I would take it off the dog and put it on the human and crank it as high a charge to their neck as possible.
Getting lost or upset should not be a death sentence. I think that an ‘animal control’ net would be more prudent or a nice cup of tea.
The weapon of choice should be heavily training the police how best to talk with the suspects, to connect on a human level wherever possible.
Here’s the state of the art. Nonviolently armed people at a soup kitchen have told me stories of how a pair of them have disarmed combatants in a knife fight. Guys living on the street carry weapons so they don’t get robbed by the other desperate people. It’s a whole nonviolent rigamarole on how to approach them, what arguments to appeal to, what vibes to cultivate, when to put your hands simultaneously on each combatant’s shoulder, how to slide your hands gently down the combatants’ knife arms until you’re gently but firmly holding the wrist so the guy still holds his own knife but he can’t use it effectively…
If the cops had enough training, they might resort to Plan B, extreme violence, 50% less. Oh, and with better nonviolent training we might even have one less suspect or sometimes one less cop killed someday. I’m not saying that two cops could pull the knife fight trick off, because that requires true nonviolent guts. And preparation.
Any cop who can’t take someone into custody without using electrocution needs to do something else for a living. They want the big retirement package and the big pension; they elect to be a cop-let them do the big job, as well.
Cops have been taking people into custody for years prior to the invention of the tasers, without electrocuting and killing anyone. They still can; it’s called a little good, old-fashioned, police work-and it doesn’t involve electrocution. Cops should be ashamed of themselves for these statistics.
They are literally killing people to make their jobs easier.
The makers of tasers and the people who have used them resulting in death should be arraigned for manslaughter.
That’s all there is to it.
The taser’s should be banned.
But clearly, a policeman should not be able to wield a taser against a person except in self defense.
This means that the tasered person would have to have wielded a gun, a knife, or a taser against the police.
The knife, the gun or the taser have to be brandished.
If not, then it’s manslaughter.
The victims need to sue. The state needs to prosecute the cops who committed manslaughter.
And a class action suit needs to be brought against the manufacturers of tasers for false advertising resulting in many deaths.
Well, you know the old saying about power corrupts. I just watched a short video which was from a patrol car camera. The cop pulled over a drunk riding a lawnmower down the street.
The drunk was good natured, finished his beer and tossed the can over his shoulder. The cop said he would cite him for littering, so he said he’d pick it up. He then got the urge to pee and stood up on the riding mower to do so. The cop told him to get down immediately. The drunk said he would as soon as he finished. The cop said he’d spray him if he didn’t get down immediately. The guy said, “Just give me a second.” The cop stepped up to him and sprayed him directly in the face from about a foot or two with mace or pepper spray, twice. The guy fell screaming off the mower and the cop pounced on him to cuff him.
In my opinion, the spraying was gratuitous. The guy was not belligerent, in fact he was a rather good-natured drunk. Had the cop been a bit more patient, he would probably have stepped off the machine and put his hands behind his back.
Listening to cops talk humorously about tazing people and how they react is just another symptom. I guess it is “fun” to be able to walk up to someone and, by just pressing a trigger, have them writing in pain at your feet.
Some people are put in a position of unendurable pain and told to be still. When they move to reduce the pain, they are perhaps tazed, or put in even more extremis, then arrested for “resisting” arrest, or not following the orders of a law enforcement officer.
We now seem to be in a state where, “Why argue with them when you can zap them,” seems to be the standard.
I know one thing, if a cop tells me to shit, I’ll ask him what color he wants. That is especially so if the cop is armed with a taser, a gun, or a can of pepper spray. If I think the cop is wrong about an arrest, I’ll let the judge figure it out.
Can you imagine the police using a taser on a legal demonstrator? Cindy for example. I can imagine it. Ban them, __ forever.
The Taser is marketed as a non-lethal weapon. The manufacturer continues to claim this. The police departments and other civilians have accepted the claim, invested in the weapons and distributed the weapons with instructions on use. This maunfacturer’s marketing is most at fault. The product needs to be pulled. The frequency of deaths is certainly statistically indicative of a deadly defect in the product. I guess the sales had to reach this level before the frequency of deaths could reach public consciousness. And if the claim is that the deaths are not connected because the Taser is being used on many people every day, then the next conclusion must be that the use of the weapons is being significantly abused.
Isn’t that WHY the US uses Tasers? BECAUSE they torture. Isn’t that what the US is all about, torturing people? Isn’t that why Cheney/Bush are still in office? to continue to torture the world? Isn’t that why Congress does nothing to help anyone for healthcare, housing, education or even to hold hearings on the worst administration in US Hisotry because they’re there to torture and terrify people? Isn’t that why Canada uses Tasers because the PM up there is a Bush wannabe? and if you’re a BUSH wannabe then you have to torture don’t you? And isn’t it all just so the rich in the US can make more and more money away from everyone else by keeping people terrified on all levels so that they can keep on keeping on doing what they’re doing to everyone but themselves, torturing them all? Canada may outlaw the Taser but I doubt it; it makes too much money. And the US definitely WON’t outlaw the taser becaues so many people just LOVE using it for the stupidist reasons anyone can imagine…
Simple solution___Make the taser so that the person delivering the shock to the victim gets about half as much of the fun electricity himself. Much safer procedure.
Tasers,Pepper spray OC 10%,Mace, all these “non-lethal” weapons would probably kill me.As a heart patient with a cronic pulmunary disorder i.e.(asthmatic bronchitis).If i was a demonstrator ,at a peace march,for example,and i happened to stumble out of the “free speech zone”it could be a death sentence!It would be better for me to be “sapped” by a”Billy club”
then the alternative” non-lethal “electro chemical” control.
I guess that soon we will experience the microwave weapons, “Heat Rays” “Pain Rays”and “Extreme Noise” crowd control techniques.Water cannons seem to be inefficient lately.What will they think of next?
The Right of free assembly.What ever happened to that?These airport,and individual arrest incidents are just as scary.What ever happened to communication with the alleged suspect?
Our homeland security, our prosecuting attorneys, our local police, our Blackwater mercenaries are wholly out of hand when they can summarily arrest, restrain, taser, even execute on their own recognizance without giving the subject any protective paraphernalia of legal framework. Depending on the law to punish a law enforcement officer is silly.
Glocks, Tasers, lasers, armored personnel carriers with mounted 50 mm’s, F-14’s? Should we add Orwell’s “Soma vapor guns”? The power is not the technology; it’s the people.
People need to rise up and assert that power in situations so important as the armed police attack upon an unarmed citizen during the U of F Kerry presentation. This is a life and death matter for democracy.
The point isn’t whether or not the suspect was following Emily Post or Roberts Rules of Order, or being impolite, immature, etc. The point was in that silent secret decision by someone to silence him/her. Who made it? Why did the Decider believe s/he had more right to call for silence than Andrew Meyer (Gainesville, FL) had to ask what some feel were impertinent questions? What if Meyer had died?
Our valorization of politeness or of the voice of individuals in “authority” (in this case, in uniform) is precisely the issue. Who gets to be the Decider? I’ve been teaching people who’ve become cops for 40 years. Do I know the personality type that wants to be a cop? You betcha. I recommend that, wherever you go, pack a Taser and make friends of others who will join you to defend your constitutional rights.
The whole public should arm themselves with Tasers and shoot when accosted by out-of-control authorities; they do not all put on righteousness with their uniforms. We should band together to protect each other. Police would think twice before firing their “non-lethal” Taser. If I kill one, I should be entitled to the same defense the police have been using. It’s the victim’s fault if s/he dies.
Arm, arm, and out. It’s good for the corporation that makes them–and their stockholders.
I wouldn’t mind water-boarding a few survivors. Taser ought to manufacture a Water-boarding Kit. Everyone should have one in case a neighborhood thug gets out of control. Be sure to U-tube the incident and send it to the world before your video’s censored.
It is possible that a taser could be used in LIMITED situations as a better alternative than shooting someone, but it is now the device used in place of reason or more limited coercion to secure a suspect or just disable an inconvenient person.
This isn’t as black and white as we might want it to be. Tasers are better than bullets, on average. It would be better if they had a lower level of electrical shock, such as “dog training ” devices, which are nowhere near as severe as those produced to “control” humans, and your dog still loves you afterwards.
But remember, the cops and the military-fascist police state we have amongst us thinks “erratic” humans are potentially far more dangerous than dogs. We aren’t talking about “training” here.
Tasering uses the same technology as does those gizmos the physiotherapist puts on your leg or shoulder to “exercise” a weak muscle. Electrical impulses are not inherently evil. But when it comes to “public and police security”, TASER INC. has cranked up the dial to “POTENTIALLY LETHAL” levels. The only exercise the cops and the manufacturers have in mind is one of complete success: total submission, even if that means forfeiting your life.
Please send all US police trainees to England for training in Human relationship and Common sense.
Bottomline, law enforcement has become far to militant, and its only going to get worse. Black Water will becoming home to a theater near you and yours soon! Law enforcement can not wait to start reqruting Bush’s little well trained helpers. For the most part they do as they want to whom they want without accountability. If you think the courts will help, think again! I have sued law enforcement four times and won every time. But having said that, If you don’t have $20,000 for legal fees and willing to spend two years fighting, then forget it. Even if you win, nothing happens to them. They will just begin harassing your family next. Remember, law enforcement and the courts walk hand and hand. Be honest, have you ever ment a cop you could trust, especially with a taser?
It’s time for the Taser to be restricted, if not banned outright. There ia enough evidence of misuse to do nothing.
Yes, I have met many police offcers anyone could trust. We seldom hear about those types in the news because they do their very stressful job properly.
I’ve also met police officers who are as mean and heartless as Cheney and some used steroids to build up their arm strength. They were usually so pumped up, they were as dangerous as a pit bull with it’s nuts snagged in barbed wire. Put a taser in their hands and they’d taser Mother Terrisa or their own mothers.
Kem Patrick, when one of your good cops wittiness a bad cope doing something wrong, do they turn him in and step forward to testify at trial or do they DO THE RIGHT THING? Get real, when push comes to shove they will not cross the thin blue line and you know it! Its the very culture they live in. Bush would make a great Cop!
At one time police officers were part of the neighbourhood and would often let things slide. But now it is more about them against us and since they have the power, it is always going to be us.
ROFLMAO!
Now, they might be able to get rid of the damn things in other countries, but don’t hold your breath for it to happen here. The U.S. Sheeple WORSHIP the “heroes” in blue, (or whatever). The murderous drones are SO pathetic, I GUARANTEE you in 10 years the fools will be lauding mail carriers as heroes. They KNOW they were lied into invading a country 1/50th their size,…They KNOW the ones they deem “our boys” have murdered well over a million human beings and still they call them “heroes” who defend our country from the evil “terrorists” that are fighting a war the only way they can because, (unlike the U.S. Sheeple), they can see how we’ve chapped our lips kissing Israeli ass while they, (Israel) commit constant acts of genocide and terrorism. SO fat chance the drones will take tasers from the hands of this decades “heroes”. “Support our troops” is their mantra. Yeah, teach another little coward how to properly water board some poor sap that will tell ‘em anything they want to hear to stop “our boys” from carrying out “our” president’s edict to torture them because they are, after all, “Enemy Combatants”. The same cute-ass trick with semantics another one of their “heroes” named “Ike” did from ‘45 to ‘50 when he called German POW’s “Disarmed Enemy Forces” to keep the I.C.R.C. from bringing his crimes against humanity to light. Drooling fools, you can pat yourselves on the back all you want about how benevolent you are to the rest of the world but you ain’t no longer fooling anyone but your own sorry asses thanks to the internet. But hey, given time, you’ll dumb-ass yourselves into letting doughy pigs like McCain sell that to the corporations too.
Sadists are attracted to jobs that confer authority - police have been abusive and sadistic since they were first invented. Take away their guns and tazers and their attitudes would change - and the sadists would stay away in droves. Works in Europe. We even used to have some decent cops in this country, back when I was a kid - before the fascists took over. But back then, inequality was not as great as it is today - it always takes abusive sadists to keep the poor scared and beaten down - until they revolt. Then we’re all screwed.
The law is trained to fight the enemy and the enemy is everyone that’s not in law enforcement. It’s that simple.
It’s a culture with in a culture. They rarely live amongst us and they have other law enforcement types as friends. They are for the most part social pariahs.
Instead of “peace officers” we now have sadistic power trippers with portable punishing devices.
Tasers, torture, spying, denial, constantly fudging the number of Iraqi dead: When criticizing George W. Bush, there is too much to choose from. It all seems to dilute itself.
So maybe we should just extract a few items to concentrate on.
The two I choose are torture and denial of the number of Iraqi dead.
W’s condoning of and lying about torture makes him less than an ordinary American.
Do you remember what he said when the last big Johns Hopkins, Columbia School of Nursing,
Lancet numerical study of Iraqis killed by his war came out? “That study has been found to be flawed.”
Characteristically, he wasn’t specific, didn’t use evidence. But his toadies explained that the study was based on sampling.
So, W, the next time you have a blood test, tell the doctor to take it all.
Hey IMAGINEUSA, the question was, “Have you ever met a cop you could trust”, and I answered it truthfully. So don’t tell me to get real. ___ I’m about as real as they come.
Bush would not make a great cop or a great anything, to pollute the police forces of America by suggesting such is outragious. There are many very fine police officers and I have seen them in action, where they will prevent the wacko type cops from bullying civilians. Do cops report abuses? You bet they do, their internal investigation units are very tough. It depends upon where one lives, all cities, counties or states are not the same in that respect.
You want to argue with, or be rude here, knock yourself out. Don’t write me any of your ’superior’ sounding crap, this is a decent forum and a site for exchange of civil opiniions.
Some of you who have blogged on this thread who may call yourselves Progressives, are sick minded, pitiful souls.
I know many police officers who I would trust my life and my family’s lives with. I once witnessed one who dove into filthy, ice filled water during blizzard conditions to pull a child out. He dove down three times in the twelve foot deep pond and finally managed to save the kid, two hours later he was back on the job, stopping people who were violating traffic laws, writing tickets and serving the public __ a “lousy pig”.
We don’t see the cops who risk their lives to save others, who respond to family disputes and end up in the hospital when one of us “good” drunk citzens, shoots or stabs him. We don’t see the ones who stop a crazy nut from drying a baby in a micro-wave oven. We don’t see the ones who prevent a drunk driver from killing an innocent family by risking their lives to stop him. We see the ones on TV, who are caught being brutal for no reason.
Some of you are just spewing out incredible, ignorant crap, and have no idea of what being a police officer is all about. Sure there are bad apples in any society, any workplace, there are a FEW here at Common Dreams. ___ As far as tasers go, they should be outlawed.
So once more the United States is out of step with the rest of the world.
The world says ban land mines. The U.S. says NO.
The world says end these aggressive imperialist wars. The U.S. said NO.
The world says stop global warming. The U.S. says NO.
The world says stop waterboarding,tasers, and other forms of torture. The U.S. says . . .
NO, apparantly.
My friends, first, I am not a Taser employee, however I do live in the community where the company is located. What I am telling you is strictly fact, not emotional opinion. When the taser first came out, the founders gave a presentation at a community event. They showed a video of each of them standing in a child’s wading pool filled with water, being tasered, to show that the weapon was not lethal. They were knocked down, and then were able to get back up after a short period of time. Just this past week I spoke with a person who was offered a job there, she told me that as part of the hiring process, you can be tasered so that as an employee you know exactly what the product does. She volunteered. Do you think the company would do this if they feared they would kill an employee and face a law suit?
My undedrstanding is that the Taser was welcomed by law enforcement because it gave them a way to stop someone who had a gun or was fleeing, etc., WITHOUT USING LETHAL FORCE (A GUN). I am just asking those of you who are feeling that the Taser should be banned to do some research on how many times a gun was NOT used and the perpetrator was subdued without being wounded or killed.
This is just a question….could it be that some people who died after being tasered had other things going on, like drugs. I am just suggesting facts be considered….
A lot of what is in the posts has more to do with negative feelings toward police than facts about the taser itself. Perhaps some law enforcement people are mis-using the weapon. Like those idiots in Florida, tasering a student who was just speaking to Kerry.
If someone wanted to, they could use the taser to scare someone, to put them in pain….if they have them in Gitmo.
Think about this, given the choice would you rather be shot point blank with a gun, at say 6 feet distance, or take your chances with the taser?
KEM,
We share many thoughts and I also want people to see that the majority of our police forces are really in service to the community.
Did you happen to read my comments about the tougher portion of compassion owed the police that beat-up Rodney King (here)?
As I believe that much is underneath the anxiety of authoritarian figures, some of which is also being discussed elsewhere on CD. I’ll get back with you on that, when discovered.
Namaste
KEM,
For link to ‘anxiety of authoritarian figures’, go here
Namaste
As far as I can see, no body has mentioned that a “lady’s taser” is being prepared for production and sale to private persons…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/17/wtaser117.xml
Obviously this Flash Gordon futuristic weapon needs a little tweaking.
There is no doubt that a non-lethal weapon that temporarily disables a potentially dangerous individual without killing them, can bring law enforcement into a new era.
Apparently, the Taser Gun is not this special non-violent disabling weapon.
Seems like a great idea but this new space age Taser weapon must be removed from the market immediately and its inventors should go back to the drawing board for further testing.
But despite the fact that it has been so outrageously misused and is not living up to its advertised potential, this is still a good idea if it can be modified to do what it is supposed to do, disable potentially violent criminals peacefully and without deadly consequences for either the law enforcement officer or the perpetrator.
KIM PATRICK, Why don’t you run for Sheriff as I did in 06 on a campaign platform of reform, accountability and transparancy. I was assaulted, arrested (for the first time in my 57 years), and harassed. My home was invaded by 9 Sheriff depuies at night who held my wife and I at gun point for over an hour while they tore our familys home apart. They even arrested my kids. They harassed my supporters and set at the end of our driveway and harassed our guest. Yes, I will win my 5 million dollar law suit we filed but thats not going to help the little guy without money. The days of the good old beat cop are gone and by the time you discover that it will be to late. They will be kicking in your door and assaulting your family. By the way, no one in my family had even had a traffic ticket before I ran for Sheriff.
Here is a prime example of the abuse of power and tasers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH_qVJfaYZA
honorthebor..I think we can bring it down to this: What did the officers do before the advent of Tasers? Would the victims they Tasered have been shot or handled with whatever means was available at the time…restraint, billy clubs, sheer muscle or maybe even psychology? Would the six people that died that week have been shot or subdued? Due force is the key.
I wonder how many cops would volunteer to be tasered knowing that they have killed some people?
I also wonder how many would use a taser on someone they know, a friend or a relative?
My bet is they would not in either case and that is why they should be banned.
“Resisting arrest” is cop code for “We kicked the crap out of him”.
You must be a cop , you seem to know it all; or do you get your opinions from stargazing?
I’d bet the employees who work for the manufacturer and have to be tasared to get a job there, don’t get zapped with 50,000 volts. I also bet they don’t get zapped several times over a two minute period __ as we witnessed a woman on the TV news, who was whacked several times by a cop, who looked to me like a Nazi SS prison guard.
Another kid died today from being tasared, of course the manufacturer says it has not been PROVEN the taser jolts killed him. It probably never will be proven, he did die however, after being tasared several times. Of course the gang of cops who were attempting to subdue him, could have blown his brains out with a bullet. Or, better yet, they could have taken him down with pepper spray, a billy club and strong arm violence. A good swift kick in the groin, or a stick in the eye will disable any man long enugh for handcuffs to be used, even if they dislocate a sholder or two, at least they don’t have to kill him.
I’d run for the office of sheriff, but don’t think our community wants a 72 year old sheriff with one eye and half blind in the other, who has trouble walking more than 100 yards before his knee gives out. I’ll sit here and write comments like the rest of us. It keeps me occupied and I learn things, that are more productive than playing Trivia.
No two ways about it tazers are torture. I know my body couldn’t sustain a jolt of electricity like that.
What I fear most is this weapon being used on those accused of inciting violence by speaking the mind.
Now that I read what I wrote, I should have said, what I fear most is being tased for being accused of inciting violence by speaking my mind.
There doesn’t seem to be a line drawn on what constitutes the use of torture.
DAvid Morgan says: More than a dozen people have died in Canada after being hit by Tasers in the last four years.
The number has just increased to 20 in Canada.
There was also another man who was Tasered by the RCMP in Chilliwack BC after Robert Dziekanski was who is now fighting for his life in hospital. The one that was pepper sprayed, tasered and batton is in bad shape in hospital. We keep get updated as to his condition, but his name has not been released.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AfiKl8EOmBM
A bit later: “CTV British Columbia has learned from sources that the man’s organs are failing and that he has been put on kidney dialysis.”
Well we finally know the name of the guy who was pepper sprayed, hit with a baton and tasered in Chilliwack - Robert Knipstrom. You do know why we now know his name! In Canada, we don’t usually release the names of the dying:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071124/custody_death_071124/20071124/
Turns out he was not 29.
honortheBOR wrote They [the taser company] showed a video of each of the [founders] standing in a child’s wading pool filled with water, being tasered, to show that the weapon was not lethal. They were knocked down, and then were able to get back up after a short period of time.
It seems to me that the taser company of which you speak would benefit from huge positive publicity if they put that video on YouTube. It could even form the platform for a nationwide “I love tasers” publicity campaign.
But I think not. Why? Because the video of which you speak is a lie, and would be quickly exposed as such. I suspect that this video is kept under strict lock and key, and that no employee can borrow it to show their family and friends. Can you ask your friend if this is true?
I do not doubt that you believe what you have been told. But therein lies the rub. You (or your friends) have been told lies. Many people tell lies to keep their job. Just ask Scotty Mcclellan, former White House Press Secretary (2003-2006) for President George W. Bush.
Trust no-one.
Jack Escobar says: The media and community should be allowed to post the names of the law enforcement officers who kill using “non-lethal” force so that the community can publicly shame and hold them accountable.
Usually that isn’t done until actual charges have been laid against the Officer and/or the Officers in question have faced reprimand. Do you really think that it’s just a few bad apples?
einstein says: And a class action suit needs to be brought against the manufacturers of tasers for false advertising resulting in many deaths.
It gets worse! Taser is selling (or thinking of selling) their products to Americans for domestic use - Americans are holding Taser parties hosted by elderly women who look like they got their make-up tips from Tammy Faye saying that having a personal Taser makes them feel safer.
CTV British Columbia: St. John Alexander on how Tasers are viewed south of the border 2:11 (title of video on your right)
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071121/taser_kennedy_071121/20071121?hub=Canada
If there are no witnesses, whose to say that those good ol’ boys in Texas actually had a taser party involving a rubby or a Mexican or whether the poor soul just had a heart attack and died alone? You get a bunch of good ol’ boys still living at home because the jobs pay so little - they got lots and lots of frustration to vent - and they are just looking for an innocent bistander to vent it on. Then there is the increase risk of date rape if Tasers become available domestically.
It is not just death or torture one has to worry about with Tasers.
KEM PATRICK says: Can you imagine the police using a taser on a legal demonstrator?
Depends on how the initial inquiry into Dziekanski’s death goes - and how fearful the RCMP are that they are being filmed (which I think will be the standard after Montebello). Remember Sargent Pepper (Hugh Stewart - 1997 APEC summit). Seems that Taser wants to influence the outcome of any inquiry:
Taser manufacturer wants role in review process
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071121/taser_review_071121/20071121/
There should be an update on the Dziekanski case in a couple of hours.
bidobear says: Isn’t that why Canada uses Tasers because the PM up there is a Bush wannabe?
Harper is but no. Taser was sold as a safe alternative to the use of bullets and was originally only supposed to be used instead of shooting someone with a gun. However, the use has morphed into a means of subduing a suspect without the use of physical force - which is a whole new ball game. This is why Taser wants to be involved in the inquiry so that their lawyers can defend the company if it comes under attack.
johnny hempseed, you bring up a good point that some people are at more risk if a taser is used on them than other people. However, what are the risk factors, besides heart trouble, in which a Taser should never be used on a person? We don’t know.
Even the practice of trying the Taser out on Police Officers to show why you should not let anyone get their hands on your Taser is not representative of the general population because you are usually dealing with men in good health. Though I think there is a case of a Police Officer who had the Taser used on his person during such a demonstration who is now suing his own police force for injuries.
One of the key points of this article is that nowadays anything other than complete submission to a police force is an offense worthy of the death penalty.
Ken, you should run for Sherriff.
The key point would be that a sherriff doesn’t have to be a physical enforcer. A 72-year old sherriff who’s half-blind and who has trouble walking a 100 yards would be a wonderful way to make that point.
Many times, simple patience can be an alternative to violence. In many of these cases, the police officers could simply back off and wait for things to calm down. Often, they know who the ’suspect’ is, so why not just wait till tomorrow to go visit him and present a ticket or charges against them. Or if the person is in a contained area, who cares if they break some furniture for awhile. If a person is surrounded by multiple police officers and doesn’t have a gun, then let them rant for awhile. They aren’t going to hurt anyone, even if they had a knife if you just keep your distance and keep them contained.
The police in this country have become highly militarized, and nowadays view the use of force as the first resort. Back when a town only had a few sherriffs and deputies instead of a paramilitary force, they better understood how to defuse a situations without violence.
once, as a kid, i was lifting my english muffins out of the toaster…without even thinking, i swung around, slumped to the floor and yelled at my brother for karate chopping me in the back…it felt as if he damaged my spine…
what really happened was i had stuck a knife in the toaster to retrieve my english muffins and had received quite a shock…ok, i was about 10 years old and learned my lesson…a person being tased–electrocuted–is going to scream and struggle and writhe, they are not going to be subdued and lay still unless they are dead…screaming and writhing may get you killed if you get shot again…cops need to learn how to handle and de-escalate a situation, not shoot first and wish they hadn’t later…….
i’m sick of our police state and there has got to be a reason why there are so many angry people in our society…
KEM PATRICK—-I salute your attempt to steer the conversation away from the “All cops are pigs!” gross generalization. Of course there are qualitative differences in law enforcement individuals. To stereotype any group is a violation and folks should be called on it.
Let’s face it, the everyday behavior of the humane, decent responsible cop gets zero coverage by the media. Unless they do something heroic and it is captured on film, it is not gonna make the news. Like you, I have known cops who have done some amazingly selfless things, and I’ve known some that enjoy their power and may abuse it. but to paint all with the same brush is grossly inacurate and terribly unfair. We should be honoring and celebrating the good people in law enforcement, and making acountable those who aren’t. And for those who say a cop will never squeel on another cop, again, an over-generalisation. There is a peer culture, but there may be any number of reasons for the silence in the face of brutality. Some may actually be afraid themselves of being “fragged” in revenge.
Yeah COMarc, come to think of it, that sheriff in Maricopa County, Arizona doesn’t carry a taser or a gun. He runs a well kept jail too, doesn’t have a lot of repeat customers. They don’t like it and they usually don’t come back. His sub sheriff was a trim, and very attractive five foot two incher lady, Jadel was as nice as could be, unless she was provoked.
Thank you for the support here Star Of The Sea.
Hey Jade, I did that same dumb thing one day. I found myself lying on the floor on the far side of the kitchen. It didn’t hurt, but for a few moments I was not functional. Scared the crap out of me. I wasn’t a kid either, I was about 55 years old, talk about not thinking.
I have a very difficult time believing tasers are legal, we don’t even allow electric cattle prods used on people. Some people could have a heart attack with just a small jolt of electricity, and that one TV news program where the cop continued to zap that screaming woman was horrifying. He was clearly enjoying it too. Once she rammed her head into the side of an open car door, he could have killed her. Are we giving the death penalty for a person being drunk and guilty of a civil disturbance offense? ___ Apparantly so.
Remember, the Taser is just like the pain ray. It gets tested on healthy volunteers. Some of them, perhaps all of them, say it is no big deal.
Fast forward to a demonstration for, say, Civil Rights or a return of the Constitution. Thousands of people, people with cataracts, heart conditions, asthma, God knows what else. Start zapping them repeatedly, giving them long lashes of the pain ray. You are going to have dead people, blinded people, dying people. Those told to lie still and stop moving, are going to get hit again and again until they lose consciousness, because writhing in pain is usually an involuntary reflex. Those people will be “resisting arrest” because they didn’t stop moving.
Mass demonstrations seem to bring out the worst in “law” enforcement, perhaps because you, the enforcer, can get lost in the anonymity of a black uniform, shield, baton and Taser.
Repression has been getting more and more violent in the past few years. Probably to teach us all to stay home and not protest, because the gloves are off. Remember, the government also uses provocateurs to start up violence so they can react, or to demonize demonstrators. Just remember the Brownshirts and the Blackshirts. They could do just what Blackwater does, with impunity. Blackwater is teaching our law enforcement how to behave. Read some of the stuff that came out of New Orleans.
I fear that things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. Always remember, the government now has the “right” to storm your house, kick in your doors and come in shooting, if anybody seems to them to resist. They can do it in plain clothes, so you will not know if it is a robbery or not. This has happened because the bust address turned out to be the same number on the next street, for instance. Or another person of the same last name.
Even if you don’t get shot, having you and your family handcuffed and pinned on the floor while the cops vandalize your house, looking for (or planting) evidence, is not going to be assuaged when one runs in and yells, “Hey Charlie, wrong house, this is 32nd street. Sorry Ma’am.”
The scars will be there for life.
When they test or demonstrate the taser gun, It’s one shot on the several videos I’ve seen. When a cop uses it, they give multiple shots, every time the victem jumps or screams they get another jolt. It’s not humane, ___ or even sensible. t is cruel torture and our Constitution forbds it for one thing.
Constitution? Oh I forgot, we don’t have that anymore.
I’m sure with this announcement Bush will ask Congress for a few billion dollars to buy Tasers, and they will gleefully appropriate it.
greatbear215:
Cops have been taking people into custody for years prior to the invention of the tasers, without electrocuting and killing anyone.
COMMENT:
W/O electrocuting, except in an electric chair, yes. W/O killing anyone? Oh, there was plenty carnage before Tazers. Hey, when I was a kid, not many would run from a Law Enforcement Officer who had a clear shot because most of us figured the cop might shoot if we ran as lawmen did often shoot runners.
PaulK:
Nonviolently armed people at a soup kitchen have told me stories of how a pair of them have disarmed combatants in a knife fight.
COMMENT:
Told you, huh? Right…! Get back to us when you’ve done it yourself. I challenged my black belt judo instructor to disarm me as I wielded a rubber knife. He couldn’t, not w/o getting a cut or stab that would have been crippling. Taking a knife away from a skilled knife fighter with bare hands is damn near impossible and even if it can be done with extraordinary luck, who in their right mind would risk their life on the possibility of having extraordinary luck?
KEM PATRICK:
I know one thing, if a cop tells me to shit, I’ll ask him what color he wants. That is especially so if the cop is armed with a taser, a gun, or a can of pepper spray. If I think the cop is wrong about an arrest, I’ll let the judge figure it out.
COMMENT:
Well hell yeah! I totally agree. I don’t wander around in the middle of a street while under the influence, I don’t threaten law enforcement officers (LEOs), don’t assault officers with fists or car, don’t drive drunk, start fights, brandish weapons, and I’ve got enough sense not to sass a LEO whose got the law and weaponry on his side. I suspect these are the reasons I haven’t been tasered, shot, whacked with a night stick, or thrown in the slammer.
urthsong:
The Taser is marketed as a non-lethal weapon.
COMMENT:
-Which is why law officers feel free to use them and citizens don’t give them proper respect. Tasers can be deadly but at the same time they can also be inadequate as a reliable defense against deadly force. They should be banned.
johnny hempseed:
As a heart patient with a cronic pulmunary disorder i.e.(asthmatic bronchitis)… it could be a death sentence! It would be better for me to be “sapped” by a”Billy club.”
COMMENT:
Me too, I’d probably survive a bullet in the leg, but not likely a Taser in the leg. As for the tear gas or Mace at demonstrations, that might do me too. I don’t go to demonstrations anymore.
johnny hempseed:
“The Right of free assembly.What ever happened to that?”
COMMENT:
Never got off the ground in the US or pretty much anywhere. Lawmen have been bashing skulls at anti-establishment political demonstrations throughout history.
honortheBOR:
Think about this, given the choice would you rather be shot point blank with a gun, at say 6 feet distance, or take your chances with the taser?
COMMENT:
With a gun pointed at them at point blank range, nearly everyone will freeze, the few who don’t are usually either extremely intoxicated, in which case a gun shouldn’t be pointed at them if they are unarmed, or they are armed and an extreme risk to the officer. It is quite apparent that there are many folks who are willing to take chances with the Taser, very few willing to take chances facing a gun, especially at “point blank range.”
COMarc says: One of the key points of this article is that nowadays anything other than complete submission to a police force is an offense worthy of the death penalty.
Though there is a certain amount of overlap between the two concepts, I figured it was about torture. If this is what you do to your own, then how much more do foreign “threats” deserve? The UN adheres (or purports to adhere) to the Geneva convention which is very anti-torture.
Jade, they used to hose down the place at night and every morning the cord of the conveyer belt would be lying in water and we needed to plug it in to start work. When one is young and in one’s 20’s one could be talked into doing that if one did not wish to appear chicken and if it would mean getting out of sweeping up at the end of shift. As careful as I was, I was usually a bit disoriented for the first half hour afterwards – though not so much that I couldn’t work.
KEM PATRICK says to starofthesea: I salute your attempt to steer the conversation away from the “All cops are pigs!” gross generalization.
Let’s include RCMP in that generalization. Const. Christopher Worden, who was murdered on October 6, 2007 was considered such a nice guy that even the people who he arrested liked him and respected him. It is possible that the well publicised deaths of Worden and Scott (a newbie to the force less than a month later) contributed to the tendency to show less restraint and a lowered tolerance for negotiating with those causing disturbances than even the usual practice. Seems that the number of Taser incidents increased after that point.
Think that there is a culture of not speaking out against the person covering your back or who has probably saved your life in the past. The RCMP have spoken out against the actions of their superiors, though, but that is too far off topic.
KEM PATRICK says: I have a very difficult time believing tasers are legal, we don’t even allow electric cattle prods used on people. Some people could have a heart attack with just a small jolt of electricity
It is mainly marketing – the Taser is marketed as safe and relatively painless. But “relative” to cattle prods leaves a lot of room. Taser strikes me as very protective of their product’s reputation as well. Unless one can prove it beyond doubt in a court of law that their product was responsible, they can claim that it is perfectly safe.
Taser manufacturer wants role in review process
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071121/taser_review_071121/20071121/
It sure puts a whole other meaning to “Beam me up Scotty” doesn’t it? Remember the laser gun?
Anyone who has been or is acquainted with the work of an electrician knows that you need to avoid electric shock. Being shocked electrically is like playing Russian Roulette. Once in a while there comes along one that will kill you or stop your heart. Law enforcement is just talking through their hats when they say that it is safe to use a taser.
A cattle prod, inserted into an anus, vagina or a mouth will get any confession desired, to avoid a second pressing of the button.
So sad that man puts his near infinite ingenuity to oppressing and creating pain in his fellow man when the same ingenuity could be used to make life fuller, richer, and more enjoyable to all.
Tasers do have their place… as a so called “no-lethal” alternative to shooting somebody… BUT that being said, Police are using them as a “compliance” tool which is wrong. The only time a taser should be used is when the “suspect” is violent with the police and the officer is unable to control them using normal physical restraint techniques. Someone should NOT have a taser used on them for questioning the police… refusing to comply with order or anything like that. Go onto YouTube and search Taser and you’ll see many videos of police mis-using tasers.
The National has a special on the Taser. If you think that you are disgusted enough already, you are not. Do you know what happened to the 4 RCMP Officers involved?
(link good for 24 hours)
http://www.cbc.ca/national/latestbroadcast.html
Didn’t they used to do the same thing to bad Priests?!