I had a thought about you trashing personal property, just to get on a plane. For 4.60 and a free 9x12 envelope from the post office, you could mail yourself anything that can fit in that priority mail envelope. It beats losing the items forever. You could mail it on your way to the airport or I suppose even at the airport, but it sounds like maybe you need to avoid doing that. At least you have more of a chance of keeping your things. I just accept that fact that anything written on the internet is being read. I live with a long time political activist, so we are sure all the phones are bugged no matter whose name they are in. We all play a lot of music. I think awareness is key, and comes before action - and no, I don't think enough people are aware.

Knowledge is power. Research for your self then put aside and Forget political tags and ideologies.
Let's not elect a politician help get Ron Paul a Statesmen with integrity elected learn what we learned check his record and you will know he is the only one willing to restore a true Constitutional Republic. Yes, he's is only one man but when good people ask other good people to serve they will if they know their effort is for the common good. Now For this to happen we must do our part by telling 6 people we know that trust our opinion. Tell them to look up Ron Paul and if what he is saying makes sense regarding our Freedom ask them to tell 6 more people. United we can evolve American politics if we elect the peoples president. The talk stops now the people have been locked out of the process far to long join the 60,000 Grass root effort who have had enough. Help us get him on the ballot across the nation then once we have a Statesman elected as President it just a stoke of the pen to restore our constitutional rights. Only Ron Paul will end all the draconian executive measures. that the present administration has implemented and been rubber stamped by the democrats.

I take no pleasure in communicating any of the following.

Americans, if you are to be effective in restoring truth and freedom to your nation, then you must realize first that so long as you DO NOTHING BUT TALK OR WRITE then the inexorable march of fascism in America will continue.

I know that this is another inconvenient truth (ICT) for you to read. But there are more.

ICT 3: Elections will not restore your freedoms, you already lost two elections to chicanery, there is no democracy in America and your votes are meaningless; nothing more than myth to satisfy appearances. The 2008 election will change nothing, for your system, your 'grand experiment' has failed. It is not the parties who are elected who run America, that's just a dog-and-pony show; a lie you seem incapable of realizing.

ICT 4: Tears and crying in the context of this article are an indication of loss and powerlessness. Those tears state what is plain to all beyond your shores: you are a beaten people. If you were not beaten, there would be no tears. There would be a surge in national spirit and you'd revolt, but you'd have done this a few years back. You have lost that window of opportunity.

ICT 5: There will be no uprising in America. No revolution. The German people never revolted; they did what Americans are doing today, they cowered in fear, they wailed and sobbed and wrung their hands while they waited for the door to be kicked in. This apathetic behavior changed nothing. The World revolted against the tyranny of the Nazis. The World freed the Germans, the Italians, and the Japanese from fascist imperialism.

Americans are a beaten people. The World will most likely have to come and strike off your shackles.

ICT 6: All it's going to take now is for America to invade another nation without due cause, and the world will then be put in a position where it has to take action or have freedom snuffed out of existence and the complete enslavement of the human race for the foreseeable future will shortly thereafter become an accomplished fact.

The historical precedence is plain here. The problem is: America is truly a rogue nation that really does have WMD in the desert.

ICT 7: American Mythology (the nationalistic pap you suck from the teat of patriotism) has paralyzed your spirit. To throw off this yoke, you will have to throw off the mythology you believe to be true about what America is today, for America is not what you think it is. It is not the land of the free, it is the land of the fee. The same thing happened in Germany; the ideology became a mythology and then was used (corrupted) to paralyze an entire population.

ICT 8: I don't think the World has any stomach for a war with America.

So, what does that mean?

ICT 9: The human race is fucked.

Thank you, assholes.

As an ousider looking in, a couple of points bother me. The Catholic Church appears to have been very supportive of the Nazis in their rise to power, and also helped GWB to power in his last election ( On a single issue ). Also, I was always taught in Scotland that the only person who can put you down is yourself. Those who govern by fear will also die by fear. It is appaling that anyone cannot be themselves for fear of being listed. The Mafia are like Monks compared to US of I's executive - on Your tax dollars. Are you Freemen or Slaves ?

Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) Poem about Nazi Germany
Rewritten for our era.....

When the Administration came for the Muslims,
I remained silent;
Because I was not a Muslim.

When they locked up the gays,
I remained silent;
Because I was not gay.

When they came for the immigrants,
I did not speak out;
I was not an immigrant.

When they came for the progressives,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a progressive.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Maryam Mehdi

I notice how uncomfortable those who love this war are whenever there is an anology made between what this administration is now doing and comparing this to the time when the Nazis took over in Germany in 1933. I too was uncomfortable when I was told I had cancer but I dealt with that by removing the tumor with surgery. This country needs major surgery today because of the cancer the members of the coup now in control has inflicted upon us. The gift our Founders bequeathed to us, The Constitution, is the necessary surgery we need to heal ourselves. Steve, USN, Ww2.

"Being rebellious and starting a revolution are two different things"

Most definitely. My point though is that saying "we're a republic, so deal" is kind of moot when you consider the founding principles of the more progressive of the people who founded the republic. I'm sure Paine and Franklin are turning in their graves.

"Maybe that's the better message - there's more to life than collecting junk, especially plastic junk and disposable everything."

Amen to that. :)

Being rebellious and starting a revolution are two different things - we don't need more violence - besides, we live in a police-state and would get creamed.

As for buying junk - people who have unsatisfying lives have to fill in that hole with something. Just like all the vicarious adventures enjoyed by TV fans - I prefer the real thing. Works for me. But a lot of poor people don't know anything else and don't believe they can ever have a decent live - they've been programmed for failure, and I've watched their families berate them for 'dreaming' about things they couldn't have. Sure glad my own parents told me I could do anything - I believed them. Maybe that's the better message - there's more to life than collecting junk, especially plastic junk and disposable everything.

Fellow commondreamers, I think that we are in real troubles, a fascist state is a troublesome neighbour, and the more powerful, it's the more dangerous; these regimes are aggressive and prone to war. As the burmese case is showing these days, only the inner forces of a country can change its own way (leaving aside a military invasion) and USA's people looks rather ill suited to the task, because it's very ill informed. Common USAlanders have no idea about how their country has demolished democracy in the third world, so they don't have glimpsed the real character of their own government.
The "writing on the wall" appeared almost fifty years ago, in the farewell speech of President Eisenhower ( not exactly an alarming leftist) but USAlanders refused to wake.
Even today I hear only scattered voices for the change, but I don´t see the political mass movements needed to produce such a change, I don´t see the wide and resolved movements that changed regimes in Argentina, Chile or Poland.
I´m afraid that only a major political earthquake could end this situation, but I´m also afraid that such a cataclysm will be costly for the rest of the world too.
Anyway, this doesn't prevent me of enjoying the springtime.

Machi

According to Herbert Marcuse's "An Essay on Liberation", a principal means by which Monopoly Capitalism controls the people is by means of Consumerism. The principle is that by linking the purchase of material goods to the satisfaction of sexual and aggressive needs the people become a stabilizing force in the society since they NEED the consumer society to meet their instinctual drives, albeit indirectly.

Thus, what one would want to do is to break this link between consumerism and the individual. At one level, this link is already being broken due to the widening gap between rich and poor (the poor are not getting their consumer fix). But we can accelerate the process: STOP BUYING. This Christmas do not buy anything; Make all gifts by yourself out of local materials, if possible. They need us to keep buying in order to maintain control. They need grotesque waste in order to absorb the people's intellectual and moral predispositions. But with a widening disparity between rich and poor they are digging their own grave.

Organize the churches to morally attack consumerism. Don't attack the Bush/Cheney fascists directly, just attack consumerism. The effect will be the same, and one avoids the political risk to oneself and one's friends. STOP BUYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

armybrat:

Repeat after me:

"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty."

Thomas Jefferson

Source: http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl64.htm

Keep on whining though, it's good for the soul. ;-D

I wish all those screaming for 'impeachment' would stop cluttering up commentaries. We have a representative government, not a democracy. That means that our representatives make all the decisions - the only thing we can do is elect (ha! fat chance!) different representatives. So long as the media controls most voters - or the crooks count the votes - there isn't going to be much change, except for the worse.

Repeat after me: We have a representative government and our representatives are in no way beholden to us (We the People) for anything but re-election. So stop whining. There is only one way to change our government - elect representatives who want it to change. Everything else is a waste of time - including revolution, which leads only to death, destruction, carnage, chaos, and more tyranny.

#
millercopter October 13th, 2007 5:54 pm

Save the deer

Eat the rich
-----------

millercopter,

I agree with your philosophy, but I have to take a pass as I simply cannot stomach swine ;)

Save the deer

Eat the rich

dolkar: I agree we need to be preaching impeachment.Nancy impeachment is off the table Pelosi's excuse there isn't enough time is wrong. Starting impeachment will stop these criminal'sfrom bombing Iran and any other criminal activity they may want to startHarry Reid and nancy impeachment is off the table Pelosi who are in Bush's pocket must be replaced by men like Jim Webb and Russ Feingolornothing will be done about the war or anything else.I never in my 81 years thought I'd ever see this great country turned over to a bunch of idiot's and moron's and we have the corrupt Supreme Court to thank for that all of them should be impeached also

Seeing all the wonderful American fighting spirit in places like this helps me in one way: it proves I'm not alone.

But I wonder if protest websites that just vent feelings and brilliant opinions, like this one, don't squander more energy that they create.
Where does all this beautiful reform energy go? Does it ever get organized?

How would anyone know from here, if it did?

In France, the internet websites for political protest lead to something pretty darn quick. When France's National Assembly tries to pass laws that screw the farmer or poultry sector, for instance, affected Frenchmen use their internet to organize themselves. They gather and march 5,000 barnyard animals up the steps of their capitol, into their lawmakers' chambers and make the animal vomit on the chamber floor. And the gendarmes don't dare interfere!

I actually saw this happen several years ago while I was in Paris. And the elected officials, red-faced and tails between their legs, instantly dropped the offending bill.

What is it that allows this kind of democracy to happen in a country with a long history of rule by corrupt elites, but not in a country that started out historically better, as a democracy?

Is it something in the French wines, maybe?
Or is just that Americans don't drink enough of their own (not too good) wine to begin with?

A vintner's question, perhaps.

Just today I read in the norwegian newspaper "Klassekampen" about how the chinese want to get a firmer grip on Wall Steet.
Maybe Nostradamus pophecy will come true - your leaders are certainly levelling the ground.

A chinese-style government are probably the plutocracys wet dream.

Actually Salia, what I think is that when Iran shuts down the strait and oil becomes rationed, people are not going to be able to get the foods they are used to having. They will have to eat local which is harder than it sounds. Having a stockpiles of things like coffee and sugar and canned goods is simply smart given the distances food must travel in this country.

PJD, annemarie and forextraader are spot on in their criticism about Wolf.

And I would like to reiterate PJD's point that no one in the US is being disappeared as they were in Argentina. Yet Americans cower. Land of the brave? or Land of the conformist?

My name is Richard Charles Hagan, I live in Largo, Florida....I write under Richard Paine

Confusion and fear, divide and conquer....prepare for the end....Holy wars, Armageddon and His return (and won't whomevers God shows up be proud of what mankind has made of themselves and the planet)

Confront what? Your fears. Fear a panic or distress caused by real or imagined, impending danger, pain etc. Many people, many fears, if you can learn to understand your fears, you can control or conquer them. The only thing to fear is fear itself...FDR at the time of WWII

Terrorism ....the use of extreme fear
Confusion...perplex, bewilder, mix up the mind, make indistinct, confound

And so we cry because we don't understand being confused and afraid....why aren't we being taken care of in a proper manner? How could this happen? What do we do now?

Run, hide, knuckle under, just put up with what is going on, wait and see, take a stand deer or otherwise, be afraid and confused? Lots of choices, at least for a while, what is it though that you really want? And what are you willing to pay for it?

For myself, a Constitutional government of soveriegn individuals might be a nice start. Peace, love and understanding .... Utopian? Well I'm not the only one. Fear not....understand!

>The US people disgust me! They are not deserving of nationhood!

PJD, we're not all a bunch of self-serving, ignorant pigs. This is what patnval said:

"I haven't given up on this country, but I intend to survive this disaster and be around to help put the country back together.
I am fortunate enough to live in a place where my actions don't seem strange or out of place. Many here are doing the same thing. One friend has added an addition to her house to accomodate refuges, military desserters and what have you and to use as a meeting place. Another is laying aside seed and canning more food than he will consume in a lifetime. Another is stockpiling coffee, sugar, aspirin etc. Yet another is mapping out wildcrafting areas in our county. None of us are rich. In fact, we all live within a few dollars of the poverty level. But we are smart enough to see the writing on the wall."

This is one of the ways solidarity manifests in the US, especially in more rural areas - figure out a skill, and tell your neighbors. There are plenty of problems here, but what patnval is talking about is not one of them.

I do agree with you that the time to be out in the streets en masse is long past due - but even there, one of the reasons that people don't do this is because of the constant threat of arrest or torture. While I personally think that people need to overcome their fears in this regard, the fears nonetheless are valid. What we need are cultures of mutual support (such as is found at times in rural areas) and collective resistance (such as is found at times in urban areas.) I share your frustration, but sharing information and international solidarity is going to carry us all much further than pointed contempt.

Patnval & Nanoo,

Are you guys for real? You really believe there's going to be kind of mass starvation? In that case may I advise you not to let anybody around know about your stockpile of food as hungry people with guns may come visiting you, and you may not be able to shoot them all.

The situation you are preparing for may happen only during a revolution, but perhaps not even then, because in a revolution people tend to help one anther, fighting the same foe.

With the government we got we'll probably never face shortage of foodstuff. They can always get what they need by force of arms. Look at Iraq.

Buying gold, not silver, is a good investment if gold shoots up to over US$1000.00 per ounce. It is now at US$748.00 per ounce for bullion.

well, I've seen a photo of a lakeside taken for real estate purposes 10 miles away from the crash, around the time it happened, and it looked pretty fine to me. A little fog and drizzle is not usually reason for a plane crash. It is it really likely that left-wingers die by accident or in assassinations while the likes of Reagan survive a shot to the head at close range at age 79, and never have their planes go down? Just lucky I guess.
As for the one who is "disgusted" that patnval bought a gun for self-defense and meat provision, rather than armed revolution, I believe history shows that violence is a very effective tool for oppressors but rarely useful to those who want justice. organized resistance is indeed important, but so far we have not found a way to organize it well enough to get around the censorship of the corporate media and the complacency and ignorance of the masses around us. But if enough people are waking up, the tool I suggest for forcing Congress to do what's necessary (starting with impeaching Cheney and his sock puppet) is--let's test someone else's theory about censorship of this site--a general strike. I believe I have been advocating it on this site as well as others. It would need to be planned well in advance and include no WORK, no going to class for students, and most important no BUYING ANYTHING.

"Wellstone and his family went down in a plane crash in fine weather 3 weeks before the election"

Sorry to throw cold water on your theory but the weather wasn't good, it was foggy and drizzling, IFR conditions and on an instrument approach. Both pilot and co-pilot also had serious competency issues.

patnval,

In practically any other nation if the face of such crisis, people would be in the street, calling General Strik&s (typo deliberate - banned phrase on this site) and through mass collective action and solidarity, shutting the system down.

But, like a typical USAn you bought a gun - not for popular armed resistance, but to hole-up and hunker down, and shoot your food or any intruders. Every man for himself!

Such a anti-solidaristic mentality guarantees complete social collapse - a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The US people disgust me! They are not deserving of nationhood!

Excellent article, and many excellent comments.
Though I do have to say to Northa--of course it was just a coincidence that Wellstone and his family went down in a plane crash in fine weather 3 weeks before the election, and a replican took his seat, and it was equally coincidental that another popular contender went down in a plane crash 3 weeks before the previous election, opposing Ashcroft. And of course the Reichstag fire was accidental as was that terrible day in 2001 when four different planes somehow went off course and two of them took out the twin towers in NYC...oh no? That wasn't a coincidence, that was the result of deliberate planning by evil men somehwre in Afghanistan? A CONPIRACY, you mean? All right, let's get this straight: accidents and plane crashes and downed ships that benefit the ruling class can never be the result of conspiracies by that ruling class, but conspiracies ARE possible as long as brown-skinned, non-English speaking people are the plotters. Have I got the rules right yet? If not, please correct.
And patnval, you are thinking the way I am, although I have not yet settled on the land as I am trying to decide between staying in WV where we have been for decades and know people, and where we can directly fight the Coal monster--and moving th New England, where a much higher percentage of people "get it," where local activism seems like more than tilting against windmills--or, in this case, tilting FOR windmills. Settling yopurself to survive the coming crash and help those around you survive is not only useful for you and those you care about--it also allows you to withdraw participation in the unsustainable economy and model the alternatives to fossil fuel dependence, etc.

We're fast approaching the end of the world, as we've come to know it. When the US economy totally collapses, it will be a good sign. From the ashes of the present rotten & worn-out economic system, a new one that is fair, just & good for the people, will be forged.

---------------

"What chiefly governs the [U.S.] military budget is the need to spend enormous sums of money in a useless way. The allegedly powerful Pentagon is simply a receptacle for wasteful expenditure, just as a city dump is the receptacle for the refuse of a city."
Walter Karp

============

"The United States has only one party - the property party. It's the party of big corporations, the party of money. It has two right wings; one is Democrat and the other is Republican."
Gore Vidal

===================

"The United States is a society in which people not only can get by without knowing much about the wider world but are systematically encouraged not to think independently or critically and instead to accept the mythology of the United States as a benevolent, misunderstood giant as it lumbers around the world trying to do good."
Robert Jensen

==================================

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/

dreamertoo,

I, too, believe the Democratic takeover of Congress in 2006 was a big deal, and I too, get criticized for it.

I have even higher hopes for 2008, and I believe that 2008 (with the presidency at stake too) is a far bigger deal than 2006 was.

patnval, good for you that you bought yourself a rifle. Lots of deer where I live and it sure saves on the food bill. I'm trying to save up extra supplies myself, more so than other years. Next big one on my list is to get a hand pump and pipe for my well should the electric power go off. I think it would be wise if we all tried to practice are own homeland security.

dahni-I do not fear for myself, and I do not weep for myself... You wrote already what was to be my comment. I spend time crying seems like every week watching DemocracyNow. The women in Congo getting raped, people in Burma slaughtered, the mid -east the on going tragic events. Then there is my fear and tears for the Earth its self. The clear cutting going on around me and more senseless highway development and the list grows on and on. The anger of seeing Columbus Day on every calender. The knowledge that far too many US citizens don't seek the truth or justice.

The only solution I see is for the US empire is to break it up. It would bring sweet tears of joy if States would start to secede.

Poor babies.
I hope some of these "fearful' people aren't the ones who 'patriotically' rooted for the invasion of Iraq for the last 5 years.
Now they are waking up?
To this day I can't understand why everyone wasn't out on the street at the very beginning demanding a STOP to Bush's war on Iraq!

Yesterday I did something I never thought I would do. I went out and bought a gun. A rifle. Deer season is coming up and so it was not unusual to all those hunters in the store. They gave me advise on where to hunt, ammo, blinds etc.
I've never hunted in my life. Ever. I don't intend to start hunting. But you never know. The day may come when all that stands between my family and starvation is my ability to shoot a deer...
Well, I brought the gun home. My partner and I looked it over, read all the instructions on care and safety. I've started looking for a place to practice shooting.
I was surprised to find that for the rest of the day we were both sad and more than a little uneasy. She is a bit of a pacifist and yet she agreed that the time had come to own a firearm, before that right too is revoked. It's not the gun itself that upsets me, I've been around them all my life, it's the fact that I feel I need one.
Voting will get you nowhere. We all know who controls the voting machines. Someone on here mentioned savings. Let me tell you that won't help either. We have over 40000 in the bank yet can't get a mortgage for a 90000 house, even putting almost half the money down. Why? No idea. Lendingtree sent me a letter telling me that no bank would give me a mortgage. So we tried using only her name. She has good credit. No go. Tried a federal program, HUD, they wouldn't even talk to us. Names on a list...probably. Right now we are looking to buy land in a cash deal.
I talked to a friend after I had bought the rifle. He asked me if it was time to hunker down. Hell yes! We have waited so long to address so many problems that we are too late. The shit will hit the fan, probably in the spring. I intend to ride it out. We are going this morning to trade in our savings for gold and silver. Spendable in any economy. I've laid in a 6 month supply of food and am working on getting a three month supply of medication. I have talked to others and have begun forming tribes/affinity groups/trade partners etc.
I haven't given up on this country, but I intend to survive this disaster and be around to help put the country back together.
I am fortunate enough to live in a place where my actions don't seem strange or out of place. Many here are doing the same thing. One friend has added an addition to her house to accomodate refuges, military desserters and what have you and to use as a meeting place. Another is laying aside seed and canning more food than he will consume in a lifetime. Another is stockpiling coffee, sugar, aspirin etc. Yet another is mapping out wildcrafting areas in our county. None of us are rich. In fact, we all live within a few dollars of the poverty level. But we are smart enough to see the writing on the wall.
I am not a young person, as my grandchildren will attest. But as I have often told my children, youth and skill are no match for age and treachery. And that treacherous bastard in the white house will not be swayed by the youth of our country. Fortunately there are more elders than children in this country. Maybe, like me, they have seen that their complicity in the making of this shit heap is a legacy that will haunt their decendents for years to come. Maybe they will see that when the call for revolution went out and they failed to act, they condemned their children to a life WORSE than the one they have had. Maybe they too will buy a gun...just in case.
I used to tell my kids that violence was never the answer. I was wrong. Sometimes violence is the only answer in a violent world.
Every act of creation is an act of destruction. Often, destruction must occur before creation can begin. As we look our destruction in the eye, can we at least prepare for creation?

I'm addressing all those who have asked for suggestions as to what to do in order to change the status quo, from passive resistance to civil disobedience, to writing to your reps, etc, etc, etc. Forget it.

So long as you have the power to vote in this country, you will have no need for all those other alternatives. You CAN change the status quo simply BY VOTING.

But I personally will not vote; or more precisely stated, I am not foolish enough to throw away my vote. What do I mean?

The electronic voting machines (such as Die Bold, etc) that leave no paper trail can be easily hacked, so much so that even if 100% of the eligible voters cast their ballots for Mr Good, still Mr Bad will come out as the winner. That being the case, you may think that people must be stupid to have voted for someone like Lieberman, or you may rightly think that the election results were rigged, but you're still not sure, you've got no way to check and find out.

As I stated earlier, You CAN still change the status quo simply BY VOTING, provided you take action to see that all those phony voting machines are replaced. Additionally, you will definitely need the UN election monitors. Unless we do that, not only we are throwing our votes away, but are also giving the fascists the appearance of democracy: that the public has voted.

Honest elections are the true signs of democracy, and in a true democracy all you have to do is to vote. And if the election results are not to your liking, live with it. That's democracy. It is only in a fascist government that you may need to resort to other means to change the status quo. So what can we do?

Let's all write to our local district attorneys or whoever is in charge of the elections stressing that we will not vote unless the phony machines are replaced, and demanding that neutral election monitors supervise the election process. This is really the only advice we need, making all other alternatives irrelevant. Oh, one more thing: DO NOT RE-ELECT INCUMBANTS!

I've just put up a post on Seeking Utopia asking folk to nominate which animal specie they think should replace mankind after its demise following the nuking of Iran.

Call me cynical but its seems that The Snowball From Hell is running downhill and is out of control.

Humans have forfeited their right to be on the top of the animal hierarchy. We don't deserve to exist!

"I can't breath! Are we that far gone? Or is there hope that wwe can escape this fate? I want to cry. But I can't. There has to be hope. Somehow….."

In resistance, there is hope. Don't forget that all tyrants ultimately fall from their own bloat and hypocrisy. Stay strong, keep on.

Thanks keith, I'm with you.

MiMi: I can't breath! Are we that far gone? Or is there hope that wwe can escape this fate? I want to cry. But I can't. There has to be hope. Somehow.....

I do not fear for myself, and I do not weep for myself - I weep for all of those who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan and those who may die in Iran. I wept as I watched the bombs fall on Baghdad, I wept from shame and anger. Shame that a country as militarily powerful as the United States would deliberately bomb and destroy a country as weak and defenseless as Iraq, and anger because I could do nothing to stop it.

I think we all have to try to change our perspective, we have to start to see others in the world as an extension of ourselves. We would all of us, defend our own children, our brothers and sisters, our family from attack even if we were afraid to do so. We would sacrifice ourselves so that they might live. Instinct would overcome our fear. we must develop empathy and compassion for others, our brothers and sisters, our human family throughout the world.

The only thing that can defeat fear is love.

From They Thought They Were Free, Milton Mayer, 1954

Testimony from a typical German

"What happened here was the gradual habitation of the people, little by litle, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand or so dangerous that, even if the could understand it, it could not be released due to national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.

This separation from the people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and and so insesibly, each step disguised as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crisis and reforms so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.

You see, one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even talk alone; you don't want to go out of your way to make trouble Why not? Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

Uncertainty is a very important factor, and instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside in the streets, in the general community, everyone seems happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, 'It's not so bad', or 'You're seeing things' or 'You're an alarmist'

And you are an alarmist. You are saying this must lead to this, and you can't prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic.

And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly little more than a baby, saying 'Jew Swine', collapses it all at once, and you see everything, everything has changed completely under your nose. The world you live in - your nation, your people, is not the world you were born in at all. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibilty even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.

Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven't done. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.

What then? You must shoot yourself. A few did. Or 'adjust' your principles. Many tried, and some, I suppose, succeeded; not I, however. Or learn to live the rest of your life with your shame. This last is the nearest there is, under the circumstances, to heroism: shame. Many Germans became this poor kind of hero.

Once the war began, resistance, protest, criticism, complaint, all carried with them a multiplied likelihood of the greatest punishment. Mere lack of enthusiasm, or failure to show it in public was 'defeatism'. You assumed there were lists of those who would be 'dealt with' later, after the victory. Goebells continually promised a victory orgy to take care of those who thought there treasonable attitude had escaped notice. And he meant it, that was not just propoganda. And that was enough to put an end to all uncertainty."

"The only reason we're not living in a police state right now is because the American people voted a Democratic majority into Congress in 2006.

Okay, everyone read it out loud together!
(If the person next to you is saying, "no no no, it was blah blah blah", tell them to shut up and read.)"

Well. I guess somebody is going to tell me to shut up then.

1. Unless you're counting the percentage that voted with their feet, the american people as a whole did not vote. It's important to not ignore the people who are "apathetic" (read: angry to the point of being numb.) What happens when people stop being numb, you know?

"The road to happiness is paved with truth. The road to unhappiness is paved with bullshit."

2. The road to unhappiness is *not* paved with bullshit. What sort of pop psychology nonsense is that? Living involves both happiness and unhappiness, and if anything, having to struggle is what makes people push for change.

"Choose wisely; the next time you come this close, you may not be so lucky."

3. Sure. Who are you thinking of?

The only reason we're not living in a police state right now is because the American people voted a Democratic majority into Congress in 2006.

Again!

The only reason we're not living in a police state right now is because the American people voted a Democratic majority into Congress in 2006.

Okay, everyone read it out loud together!
(If the person next to you is saying, "no no no, it was blah blah blah", tell them to shut up and read.)

The only reason we're not living in a police state right now is because the American people voted a Democratic majority into Congress in 2006.

The road to happiness is paved with truth. The road to unhappiness is paved with bullshit. This is both an individual and a collective choice. Choose wisely; the next time you come this close, you may not be so lucky.

(For those that indicated an interest, Google BLOGGER provides an easy way for people to get started on their own websites. You can call Google for help.)

As a psychologist and a professor of social psychology, I teach students about how obedience to authority can be destructive, especially inappropriate and abusive authority, like the kind Wolfe is talking about.

God bless Wolfe and the patriots who stand up now.

Ever since ancient times, philosophers and religious thinkers representing various attitudes in different cultures have been searching for the truth as regards moral values, attempting to find criteria for what is right, what constitutes good advice. They described the virtues of human character and suggested these be acquired. They created a heritage ... which contains centuries of experience and reflections. In spite of the obvious differences among attitudes, the similarity or complementarity of the conclusions reached by famous ancients are striking, even though they worked in widely divergent times and places. After all, whatever is valuable is conditioned and caused by the laws of nature acting upon the personalities of both individual human beings and collective societies.

It is equally thought-provoking, however, to see how relatively little has been said about the opposite side of the coin; the nature, causes, and genesis of evil. These matters are usually cloaked behind the above generalized conclusions with a certain amount of secrecy. Such a state of affairs can be partially ascribed to the social conditions and historical circumstances under which these thinkers worked. Their modus operandi may have been dictated at least in part by personal fate, inherited traditions, or even prudishness. After all, justice and virtue are the opposites of force and perversity, the same applies to truthfulness vs. lies, similarly like health is the opposite of an illness.

The character and genesis of evil thus remained hidden in discreet shadows, leaving it to playwrights to deal with the subject in their highly expressive language, but that did not reach the primeval source of the phenomena. A certain cognitive space thus remains uninvestigated, a thicket of moral questions which resists understanding and philosophical generalizations. [...]

From time immemorial, man has dreamed of a life in which his efforts to accumulate benefits can be punctuated by rest during which time he enjoys those benefits. He learned how to domesticate animals in order to accumulate more benefits, and when that no longer met his needs, he learned to enslave other human beings simply because he was more powerful and could do it.

Dreams of a happy life of "more accumulated benefits" to be enjoyed, and more leisure time in which to enjoy them, thus gave rise to force over others, a force which depraves the mind of its user. That is why man's dreams of happiness have not come true throughout history: the hedonistic view of "happiness" contains the seeds of misery. Hedonism, the pursuit of the accumulation of benefits for the sole purpose of self-enjoyment, feeds the eternal cycle where good times lead to bad times.

During good times, people lose sight of the need for thinking, introspection, knowledge of others, and an understanding of life. When things are "good," people ask themselves whether it is worth it to ponder human nature and flaws in the personality (one's own, or that of another). In good times, entire generations can grow up with no understanding of the creative meaning of suffering since they have never experienced it themselves. When all the joys of life are there for the taking, mental effort to understand science and the laws of nature - to acquire knowledge that may not be directly related to accumulating stuff - seems like pointless labor. Being "healthy minded," and positive - a good sport with never a discouraging word - is seen as a good thing, and anyone who predicts dire consequences as the result of such insouciance is labeled a wet-blanket or a killjoy.

Perception of the truth about reality, especially a real understanding of human nature in all it's ranges and permutations, ceases to be a virtue to be acquired. Thoughtful doubters are "meddlers" who can't leave well enough alone. "Don't fix it if it ain't broke." This attitude leads to an impoverishment of psychological knowledge including the capacity to differentiate the properties of human nature and personality, and the ability to mold healthy minds creatively.

The cult of power thus supplants the mental and moral values so essential for maintaining peace by peaceful means. A nation's enrichment or involution as regards its psychological world-view could be considered an indicator of whether its future be good or bad.

During good times, the search for the meaning of life, the truth of our reality, becomes uncomfortable because it reveals inconvenient factors. Unconscious elimination of data which are, or appear to be, inexpedient, begins to be habitual, a custom accepted by entire societies. The result is that any thought processes based on such truncated information cannot bring correct conclusions. This then leads to substitution of convenient lies to the self to replace uncomfortable truths thereby approaching the boundaries of phenomena which should be viewed as psychopathological. [...]

When bad times arrive and people are overwhelmed by an excess of evil, they must gather all their physical and mental strength to fight for existence and protect human reason. The search for some way out of difficulties and dangers rekindles long-buried powers or discretion. Such people have the initial tendency to rely on force in order to counteract the threat; they may, for instance, become "trigger happy" or dependent upon armies. Slowly and laboriously, however, they discover the advantages conferred by mental effort; improved understanding of psychological situations in particular, better differentiation of human characters and personalities, and finally, comprehension of one's adversaries. During such times, virtues which former generations relegated to literary motifs regain their real and useful substance and become prized for their value. A wise person capable of furnishing sound advice is highly respected.

It seems that there have been many such "bad times" in the course of human history, and it was during such times that the great systems of ethics were developed. Unfortunately, during "good times," nobody wants to hear about it. They want to "enjoy" things, to have pleasure and pleasant experiences, and so any literature that relates to such times is lost, forgotten, suppressed, or otherwise ignored. This leads to further debasing of the intellectual currency and opens the gap for bad times to come once again. [Andrew Lobaczewski, Ph.D. Political Ponerology: The Science of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes]

recognizant...Thanks for telling it like it really is. Not much consellation, but you are not the only one out there is your situation. You have the guts to spell it out and I admire you for that. No matter who you try to 'explain' your situation to, they like to make you feel as if you planned this predicament and as long as it is your own doing you can certainly undo it and stop whining. Right? I once made less than $5,000 in one year and did not have the money that I owed in taxes. I ended up with a fine and Interest of #10,000 which took all of my refunds for the next ten years. And, the rich get the tax breaks, go figure.

The ENABLING Act was passed after the Reichstag building was burned in Germany in 1933. The PATRIOT Act was passed after 911. The affects were the same, lessening of ones rights. Do not let the same results happen again. Read the Declaration of Independence again.

Naomi Wolf IS flogging a new book: The End of America: A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot.

and as Political consultant Wolf was involved in Bill Clinton's 1996 re-election bid where she brainstormed with the Clinton-Gore team about ways to reach "soccer moms" and other female voters.

During Al Gore's unsuccessful bid for the 2000 US presidency, Wolf was hired as a consultant to target female voters, reprising her role in the Clinton campaign. Wolf's ideas and participation in the Gore campaign generated considerable media coverage and criticism. According to a report by Michael Duffy in Time Magazine, "Wolf [was] paid a salary of $15,000 a month…in exchange for advice on everything from how to win the women's vote to shirt-and-tie combinations." This article was the original source of the widely reported claim that Wolf was responsible for Gore's "three-buttoned, earth-toned look." The Duffy article did not mention "earth tones." The Time article and others also claimed that Wolf had developed the idea that Gore is "a beta male who needs to take on the alpha male in the Oval Office".----------

Yeah the "brave" and "outspoken" Wolf is flogging her latest book. yawn

Make sure I am on the list you bastards!

Coffeelover,,,,,

how to respond to a fascist takeover!?

thats a disingenuous question. there's plenty of literature.

if emails to congress dont work you take to the streets - you say no. you dont sya i'm discouraged from protest - protest marches are not a kind of newspaper story only with 10000 editors - they are an action - a clot to the wound - pressure - resisitance - refusal - you dont gather in the street to ask the king to step down - you fill the streets until his rule crumbles. let's go!

rucognizant,

You're right: many people won't acknowledge what's happening until it's happening to them ... but it's happening to a great many more than all the "economy-is-great, Dow-at-record-high" news coverage lets on.

In my neck of the woods, there are professional people and good, hard-working people of all stripes who have not been able to pay their mortgages (or other bills) for six, seven, eight months. These aren't even people who've become unemployed -- all the economic trends (the small ones that don't affect the privileged, like adjustable-rate mortgages and rising food prices and uncovered health-care bills) are stressing them beyond their ability to stand much longer.

I'm not an artist, but a writer, and my trade (profession/vocation/whatever) has suffered the same fate since the days of Reagan. For Pete's sake, some newspapers are even outsourcing local city council news coverage to India these days -- it's possible, as long as the meetings are broadcast on the Internet. This isn't a case of a rising-tide-lifting-all-boats; it's an equalizing tide bringing us down while others rise until we're all at the same level. And what's a boon to someone in Bangalore is a major downward move to someone in the States who grew up with strong unions, a decent minimum wage, a vibrant middle class, etc.

Rich M,

Actually, understanding some reasons that "9-11" (or in the rest of the world, "11-9") may NOT be an "inside job" is even more important. If USAns don't understand why people might be angry enough at the US to commit such an act, they don't understand anything about the history of US imperialism...

Look, if as many USAns showed up at a demonstration as those that will go to football game over the next two days, the war and the Bush regime would have been done with long ago.

What too many don't seem to get is that whatever you believe in, you (or someone else) must be at least nominally willing to die for. The right-wingers have the 'all volunteer' armed services. Who do the left-wingers have, with their majority tearful middle-class too afraid of losing their homes and (grand)children's educations? There are clearly those who are willing to sacrifice any and all of us. However, there are others who are willing to sacrifice little, if anything at all.

Since the '60s the middle class has always beeb about those who are afraid to lose what they have. Never understanding that what they have rested upon those who had little and nothing to lose. Think of all of us who are dying for no cause at all, that is, too much drinking, drugging, depression, anger, AIDS, cancers etc., even those of the middle classs like the Baltimore Frosts.

Maybe our left-wing recruitment slogan should be: "Those who are about to die--we recruit you."

cruxpuppy: I think you have Naomi Wolf confused with Naomi Klein. Naomi Klein just published her awesome book on disaster capitalism and she has never been a shill for Democrats.

It's taken me a long time to read all the posts here today. I feel like I may be too late to the party!

Bugs Bunny: Your post was very moving and compelling. I would add that this generation not only knew freedom (sort of), but many of us were asleep or didn't see the destruction of that freedom coming and didn't stop it before the situation became so dire. YES! Remember the children! And remember too that they will be asking us why we did not fight for them when we tell our stories of what it was like when we were "free".

Crux Puppy: Even though you have already been called on the carpet, I will add that you shouldn't be shooting the messanger. I too believe that what happened on 9/11 should be thoroughly investigated. But that we should not wait for that to happen. We already know the truth of how the government, and I mean EVERYBODY in government, used that event to cement the facsist nation we have today. "They", Repug and Dim alike, allowed the trashing of our Constitution, the rule of law, international treaties, our civil liberties, and our freedoms.

Frank: Terrific! I totally agree. How do we get on the "List"?

Eddie: you are on it! I call it community soveriegnty. Until we start to get some positive feedback from acting locally, we become impotant to act. Just knowing that your neighbors are with you is all it takes to keep you going.

Kegbot: Spot on! I saved something that you said on another thread that fits here - "Might as well get Gruppenfuhrer Giuliani in there and bring the boil to a head and let it explode. Prolonging the misery makes no sense to me. I'll take the fast road to fascism rather than the slow one. We're going there anyway. – kegbot" I believe that there will not be enough of us to actually turn this ship of state around until a major event that hits everybody personally happens. That could be the meltdown of the economy, marshall law, the incarceration of a huge number of ordinary citizens caused by a "red flag" event, or some other galvenizing event. I say bring it to a boil!

Yes, we can all plan for and support our candidates for the next election, if there is one. Yes, we can continue to protest. Yes, we continue to send e-mails, call, and write our Congress Critters. Sign petitions. And any other thing we can think of to try to have our voices heard. But about two weeks ago I had to face the fact that I am pissing in the wind. None of these tactics are going to have an impact until the MAJORITY of the sheeple wake up and stop shopping.

My plan: Stock up on the essentials to last you and yours for about 3 to 6 months. And don't forget the seeds you will need to share for a community garden. Transfer any money and IRA's you may have to a local credit union. Get to know your neighbors and local farmers. Support community action and mutual support systems and activities. When the shit hits the fan, only pay the bills that are essential for survival ie mortage, rent, utilities. It ain't going to be pretty folks. And it ain't going to be easy. But we all have to get into the same boat together and start bailing together.

I am an American happily living in London. I was at a meeting in Kraków a few years ago and decided to visit Auschwitz. It was a raining day, the camp was almost deserted and quite sombre. In the breakfast room of the hotel the next day, there were a few Americans at a nearby table discussing the concentration camp, and wondering if they would have the courage to stand up to the Nazi regime. I don't want to make too facile a comparison, but I was tempted to ask them what they are doing to oppose a government that believes in arrest and indefinite detention without charge, in inflicting torture on prisoners (some of whom are likely to be only guilty of being at the wrong place at the wrong time), in the other trashing of 'American' values that Naomi describes here.

I give lectures in evolution, and have one slide where I outline speciation, ending in two pictures, Bush and a chimp, in near-identical poses. When I give this talk to an audience in Europe, most of the time someone asks me afterwards if I would be afraid to show such a slide in the US. I don't think that the US is THAT bad. But it is still striking how much the US is seen as a place where criticism of the government, even the humorous comparison of the president with a chimp, is risky. So much for our wish to be seen as the 'land of the free, home of the brave'.

I believe that the ultimate solution is to avoid a unipolar world, and it is in the best interests of the world, ESPECIALLY the United States, for there to be a strong, confident, prosperous, vigorous Europe. And I will say this for Bush - he certainly made Europe a more independent voice.

Signed, Richard A. Goldstein

In the summer of 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald introduced the John Birch Society to the real assassins of J.F.K. at a masonic temple in Roswell, NM. They got the hots for each other after reading None Dare Call it Treason aloud in passionate whispers. A child was conceived on November 22 of that year on a grassy knoll in Dallas, TX. The child had a really long gestation, about 37 years or so, during which time his loving parents read him H.P. Lovecraft stories and Dan Brown novels. The freaky little bastard was finally born on 9/11/2001.

It's all true, I swear it, RichM, you lousy left gatekeeper.

I think it's important to do whatever we can - whatever is possible in our own lives at this moment. This is not the time to wish for a charismatic leader or worry about not getting on a list - just DO something. And if you can't do something, babysit for or loan your car to or donate $5 to someone who CAN.

If we are scared, they've won. We have to speak up and we have to support each other. We have become too isolated from each other. I think we need to actively, face to face, get involved where we live - in whatever needs to be done. We need to develop community and regional self-sufficiency. We need to travel less, stay home more and take care of business.

I think that's the right way to take back our power and our lives. The internet is a good tool but it shouldn't take the place of knowing the people where you live and having a strong sense of mutual support and community. The local food movement is an example of this kind of grassroots action.

Have you ever worked as a poll watcher? We definitely need some righteous poll watchers.

Do everything you can so when your children (or your neighbor's children) look at you with questions in their eyes, you can say - we are doing everything we can!

I am writing a blog for Wildflower Stew, an organization for living in harmony with the natural world, at http://goodwordswan.wildflowerstew.com

Wasn't Naomi Wolf the one that was totally obsessed with remaking Al Gore's image into an alpha male with earthtones? Naomi, the future of America does not depend on fashion statements. It deals with peoples lives and future, something you , the Zionist DLC, and the neoconservative Republicans don't get!! How did she get to be a multimillion dollar author anyways? Only in America for cripes sakes! As the song goes, "..we all know that crap is King". (with apologies to Don Henley).

V O T E ... ! ! ! In the last election about 1/2 of 1/2 of the eligible voters VOTED making it easier to steal the election.
Remember when the Iraqi's voted they were literally taking the lives in their hands and over 90% voted. Every one of us needs to find at least 1 person who is NOT planning on voting and get them to vote.
EVERY VOTE COUNTS as a memorial to those who have died to protect the right to VOTE!

Ok! I think we're on to something now.

BugsBBunny, your post is very powerful--Remember the Children!

Frank1569, I love your ideas! Things we can do in groups, plus things we can do on our own. I would gladly wear a T-Shirt saying "More Tax Cuts for the Rich" when I go grocery shopping. Plus a dozen other 'sound bites'.
Get some cheap tees, paint them up, and give them to your friends to wear on their weekend errands.

Wilsha, you're right. Marching in the streets doesn't work anymore. And we certainly have more power in our wallets than at the voting booth. Boycotts work. Cezar Chavez proved it in California.

Like you, I am no whiz at the computer. But maybe somebody can volunteer to start a website for collecting Resistance Ideas. Things we can do Individually, things we can with a Group, things we can do as a Crowd. Naturally, anyone who posts an idea will be offering themselves up to the Watch List --- but I agree that we should leap onto it instead of running away with it. A section of the website should promote Wilsha's idea about items and corporations to boycott and we can organize locally. A Boycott of the Month Club?

If somebody would set up such a website, they should post the address here on CD, and any and all similar sites. Let's hear from the creative among us and start the passive resistance. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
I'm not ready to take off the gloves yet. No police state for my grandchildren!

The 9/11 cultists are becoming a serious impediment to political consciousness on the left. It's not that their ideas are necessarily wrong (I'm open to many of them, myself; & certainly support serious investigations). Rather, it's that they are trying to commandeer the entire podium on the strength of pure volubility; and their shrill insistence is crowding out ideas that have far more fundamental importance.

The cultists are demanding that no ideas can be heard except theirs, & this attitude leads naturally to denouncing figures like Chomsky, Daniel Ellsberg, Amy Goodman, Naomi Klein, etc as "left gatekeepers" who (according to them) are really just "CIA shills and cover-up artists." We see some of that nuttiness here on this thread.

The basic analysis of what's so profoundly wrong in our society is the analysis of capitalism, corporatism, imperialism, & militarism. This analysis wouldn't change one whit, whether 9-11 was in fact an "inside job," or it wasn't. Even if it wasn't, the US govt is still a militarist & imperialist monster, the greatest of dangers to the planet. And certainly, even if 9-11 was not an inside job, that would prove nothing. As one sees by looking at Operation Northwoods, it's just the sort of thing the US government would very likely do, if it thought it could possibly get away with it.

The concepts & insights offered by the likes of Chomsky et al are exceedingly valuable, whether or not 9-11 was an inside job. Those insights & ideas should be learned, absorbed & assimilated -- regardless of what's turned up by 9-11 research. And for the cultists to start shrieking for the heads of the Chomskys & Ellsbergs -- this is insanely destructive, & utterly infantile.

No it couldn't happen here... but something else is. What they couldn't do for lack of the tecnology back in the sixties, they seem hell bent on doing now. Warrantless survaillance? No fly lists? Targeting whistleblowers or dissent from the party line et al...

Who watches the watchers when the watching itself is secret? Why they do...they are the only ones who even know it is being done. When only some know ...then only they can be hired to do it. How do you fire someone when you don't know they were even hired nor the existence of their job itself?

Data mining! Call it the BIG LIST. Afraid of being on a list? Too late for that folks...what did you figure data mining was anyway? It is...the LIST. Though in it's infancy, data mining is the fascist's tool par excellance. Keep track of everybody and everything they do... automatically. Give that ten or so to build up the database.

Afraid yet? You shouldn't be. At least not quite yet. However that nursery school kid should be afraid. They were born into a database and will spend their lives in one. What data mining will look like in twenty years is pretty damn scary. Talk about never being able to get off a list! RFID (radio frequency ID) tags in your driver's licence anyone?

So here we are throwing books into garbage bins and worrying if this is still a free country (at least for yourself if not others) when you enter an airport. Yeah well.

Worse? That comes later though too quickly indeed. Who watches the watchers when all knowledge of their watching is secret? Who hires these people? Who? They by definition must be secret too. Whom do they report to but...themselves I guess.

Data mining is being done by private corporations and private individuals. Talk about keeping lists!!! Data mining is the BIG list and we are all on it. And when it is all settled in and purring along...does anyone believe that it won't be abused? Yeah right. I never hear anyone worrying about data mining being useful for insider trading.

Ask who would diminish their own rights and freedoms in their own country? Ask why would they do so willingly? If you have the big money and the all the influence that brings plus the real political power to do virtually what you want for real ...after a certain point democracy seems more like something the little guys might want but after all... you don't really need.

That power of course trickles down to those whose income and position depends on their working for you. When Mussolini's black shirts took over, to get a good job either you worked for them in some capacity or you lost out or maybe suffered retribution if you made waves.

So though we fear more and more... we are waiting too long, not making waves, saving our own skins ... and sacrificing our childrens instead. They will be the ones under the heel. We fear to find out we might get on a list knowing full well our children will not have that choice at all. So save your skins and thereby flay your children's. Either or.

There is only us to save our kids. Only we were once free and know what it was like. They were born survailled and will not expect freedoms they never had...like we still do.

So do nothing...and leave it be done to them. They are only your own children. Save yourselves, that comfy zone that is quickly becoming uncomfortable but not yet unbearable. Save that for te kids. They'll never know the difference having nothing to compare their lives with like us. We know what it was to be free. Well knew anyway.

Oddly if you don't rock this boat... you drown the kids. It's you or the kids. We are the ones who were born free and perhaps we were the last ones too.

So if you are getting scared ...remember the kids... because the freedom we lose... is really theirs. If we do nothing...all this will be done to them. Your children.

Gosh, have to dust off my Soviet era precautions and tactics again. I lived through it in the 1970s during the Brezhnev era and as a kid was told watch what to you say and do and to whom you say it and with whom you do it. So I am an old pro at this. Of course we did not have the internet. Our most intimate politically subversive discussions took place in cramped Soviet apartments over glasses of vodka and pickled herring. The good old days are back. We knew that Pravda (Russian for truth) was never truth, neither is Faux news.

Poka Tovarisch!

Fascism (the state), protects the economic system, capitalism.

There is an objective side to the coin and it is independent of all the players thinking. If you want to keep your privileged position, and you want capitalism to survive, then all the US based multi-national corporations must make maximum profits. Yes, we have "greedy" individuals in this equation, but that is not the driving force. The subjective sits on this objective truth, make maximum profits or die.

We are living in an epoch of change brought about by the introduction of digital electronic technology into production. The difference between the economic reality of this period of time and previous times is that every advance of technology into production now is labor-replacing rather than labor enhancing. The introduction of electronics into production replaces human labor. When production can increase without an increase in labor, the value of labor power – and the value of life – begin to fall toward zero. Employed workers globally are competing with a "robot" that is not paid wages. Thus, capital is able to drive workers in production like slaves, with extended hours, intense exploitation, and starvation wages.

The state institutions respond to this economic reality with callous indifference to human need. This leads to continued war and fascism.

The inevitable social response is already underway worldwide.The objective demands of people without the means for housing, health care, children's education, nutrition, the basics of life, is to demand society distribute wealth according to peoples needs, not maximum profit.

But at any rate, cruxpuppy, you criticism or either Naomi, Chomsky, or Chalmerrs Johnson is without merit. And these inane, nutty, obsessive, sophomoric, Sept 11 theories have done more to destroy unity among leftist youth, and a proper analysis of US imperialism than anything out there.

"I reluctantly foudd myself putting a hardcover copy of Tara McKelvey's excellent Monstering, an expose of CIA interrogation practices, in a garbage can before I get in the security line; it is based on classified information. This morning at my hotel, before going to the sirport, I threw away a very nice black T-shirt that said "We Will Not be Silenced" — with an Arabic translation..."

what spineless cowardice. Give me a break people! An Argentine, a Chilean, a Colombian, Nicraguan or Salvadoran or Guatamalan, Indonesian, Timorese, Burmese, older than about 40 years would laugh out loud at this article. A mother who risked her life dancing with her dissappeared son on the Plaza de Mayo under the gaze of the Junta would be filled with contempt at the wimpering spinelessness of these middle class Yanquis!

Reality Check! Up here the US, No one is being dissappeared, and I've heard very, very few cased of anyone losing their job. Some get tagged for harassment at airports. Well, don't fly! So, it appears the fascists are able to cow us with submission paralyse us with fear of losing our cushy middle class lifesytyle. Look in the mirror ny dear fallow USAns - and recall Pogo's dictum.

Fear is a toxic poison that paralyses people. All too often the fear is the product of an hyper-active imagination.

One can be cautious and fearless at the same time.

The bastards in power are very aware of the power of using fear to control the masses. Their days in power are numbered. Social democracy is in the pipeline. Ot's horror to the oligarchy.

Don't be afraid! Fear is the opposite of faith.

=====================================

"I swear by the God of my parents, I swear by my nation,
I swear by my honor that I will not allow my soul to rest,
nor my arm to relax until I have broken the chains
that oppress my people through the will of the powerful.
Free elections, free land and free men, horror to the oligarchy."

Oath used by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez - the Great,
(when he was 28) and some of his revolutionary friends.
-copied from Page 80, !HUGO! by Bart Jones

==========

The revolutionary path is bathed in light. Take the oath and do what you can! To be complacent is to be complicit.

—————————

"Almost anything you do [to help humanity] will seem insignificant, but it's very important that you do it."
Mahatma Gandi

===========

"Be bold and mighty spirits will come to your aid."
John Stuart Mills

---

"Be bold, but be sensible, for boldness is [often] a child of baseness." Basil King.

PJD, I just realized it! Damn! I've been itchinig to say that to Naomi Klein, anyway. I know she's Canadian, but she has a greater audience here. And if the shoe fits, Naomi Wolf.....

Your reflections on "disaster capitalism" in your recent book ...

er...wrong Naomi, cruxpuppy. You are thinking of Naomi Klein, a Canadian.

What next? Journalists of your stature skipping a chance to take part in panels at Harvard. I have trouble with some of these reactions of "regular" americans, given their great love of gambling and eating big macs. They know it is foolish but do it anyway. Privacy- Whats that? When did we ever have it or want it? Whats now lacking is decency. Ordinary human kindness- you know the kind that said to a guest; "may I help you with your coat?" or " Let me show you the powder room." Anyway, thanks for the report- It may not be fear your seeing. Rather, the awareness of being plucked, snookered. I call it "post self delusion". Check out the funeral scene in Huck Finn. It is a wake up call to all frauds. Note, all the republicans for the most part, sneaking out of D.C. I just hope we (the villagers) have enough tar and feathers.

Good for you Saila nd you too eddie.

I guess most Americans will be weeping all the way to the camps.

Well, not me. I will not go quietly.

I have seen the inside of the beast - as a federal civil servant and an Army Reservist. I know how susceptible the system is to monkeywrenching. Individuals, the more anonymous the better, have enormous capabilities for mischief. Why do Americans need to be led so?

The problem for many people is, who to trust? Many of your friends and neighbors have no problem with what is going down in the US. We wonder where the camp guards and brownshirts will come from in the new Fascist America. Spend a few hours at Free Republic reading the posts there. A lot of those folks go to sleep at night dreaming of nifty uniforms, running their own torture chambers and star-spangled red, white and blue swastikas.

We need to find our brothers and sisters and prepare them for the dark days ahead. Many of us already are good at what used to be called "The German Look." Be careful who you talk to, but by all means, start organizing - one neighborhood, one small town at a time.

There is a time to be polite and a time to understand we must get our hands dirty in order to save our society. When Patrick Henry said "give me liberty or give me death" he was not engaging in parlor rhetoric. A noose awaited him and every single member of the founding fathers should the revolution have failed. The stakes were well understood. How well do we understand what is at stake?

Many of us, however, still feel we can debate or vote our way back to the kind of country we were taught we lived in. I would simply point to the last six years under the current regime to make the point that these people are not going to go away without a push, like it or not. They control most of the media, they control the vote counting, they control most of the courts, they write and pass the laws we're forced to live under, they hold our mortgages and our jobs and they tell us there is nothing about our personal lives that they are not entitled to know and yet we are not to ask any questions of their activities.

The left, quite frankly, will get what it deserves from being too nice and too worried about college costs or consumer baubles. I guess its really true - when you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose. As for your families being put at risk, the day some Fed comes for or threatens a member of my family will be the day they wish they'd never been born. And as for your children, would the neocon, PNAC view of the New American Order be worth living in for your children? Is it better to die standing than live kneeling as Stalin famously said?

This is not a pretty or pleasant subject but its one you must start thinking about. I for one, would rather die defending human liberty then live under a Dick Cheney kind of fascism. You? You still think playing with your toys and drinking imported beer is worth your slavery?

Reminds me of a movie. Americans like movies. Remember this one?

You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What will you do with that freedom? Will you fight?

Veteran soldier: Fight against that? No, we will run, and we will live.

William: Aye, fight and you may die, run and you'll live. At least a while.
And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to
trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one
chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take
our lives, but they'll never take our freedom?! Alba gu bra!

For Federal agents and anyone else interested:
My name is Keith Gottschalk
And I blog here: http://badamerican.wordpress.com/

The parallels between Germany in the 30's and the US are now clear. The United States is a troubled and dysfunctional country with a population that has been conditioned to be frightened and is therefore easily manipulated. Corporations and government work hand in glove in their own interests and not in the interests of the ordinary citizens. Sad to have to say it, but resistance may be a hopeless cause here. There are simply not enough of us who are aware of what is going on. The only hope is that when the big crisis hits and a state of emergency declared here, that the military opts not to support the fascists and supports instead anti-fascists. More likely the military will split between fascist and anti-fascist forces, and we will have another civil war here, a civil war more like the one in Spain in the 30's.

Naomi,
I say this reluctantly because of my great respect for your work, but you are in part responsible for the current political environment owing to your position of leadership. Noam Chomsky shares responsibility as well. Chalmers Johnson, in spite of the great work in his blowback trilogy, has failed in his service to the republic. All those opinion makers and commentators who have refused due dilligence in the investigation of the WTC attacks have earned this unpleasant distinction of having failed to confront a crime perpetrated against several thousand innocent people and the republic itself.

This moral failure has the consequences now apparent to many ordinary people who find themselves caught up in the malevolent grasp of an out-of-control state security apparatus the existence of which has been justified by one event chiefly - the false flag terrorist act of 911.

You have no excuse for your failure to examine the abundant evidence, in particular the destruction of WTC 7, for which there is no plausible explanation, even if you are swayed by the erroneous account of the collapse of WTC 1 & 2 supplied by a corrupt NIST investigation team. The collapse of those building violates the laws of physics and common sense.

Your reflections on "disaster capitalism" in your recent book describe very well the political consequences of disaster, the shocked and awed psychological state that renders masses of people vulnerable to the manipulation of "capital". However, you specifically deny that the disaster of 911 was a premeditated campaign of shock and awe designed to create a climate of fear and the political environment in which legislation like the Patriot Act could be approved. Anyone who knows anything about the uses of political terror knows that it is tool, a very blunt weapon, that is used to manipulate the political will of masses of people.

Because this egregious crime of a government against its people has gone unchallenged in any politically meaningful way, because you and others have failed to speak out, the people continue to be targeted by the victorious national security state in an on-going terrorist assault on liberty. The Patriot Act is terrorist legislation that justifies the targetting of unwitt6ing citizens because it destroys the presumption of innocence.

Until the crime of 911 is exposed and its perpetrators and apologists brought to light,. the fundamental reality of this nation will not be restored to its Constitutional foundation. The National Security State and the Constitutional Republic cannot co-exist.

Your moral cowardice (yes, that is what it is) in your public role as conscience of the people should make you toss and turn uneasily in your sleep. An entire nation has bought a big lie. We have not yet seen the whole consequence of this moral failure, but we will unless you and others who have the public ear stand up and throw off your own fear and begin to tell it like it is.

What we should fear more than terrorism are those people who conceal themselves and their activities from view and accountability behind the closed doors of the national security state.

Northa,
Well, you are somewhat correct by calling my statement a theory. But, I do believe in intuition, and my first intuitions have often been proved to be true. I am a Minnesotan and Pauls wonderful hope and tenacity were/are dear to my heart. That said, It is so obvious that Paul was the great thorn in the side of Bush/co, an impediment to carrying out the plan for a lifelong Repub government....the Iraq attack. 9/11 was an attack by somebody, while the Wellstone plane could or could not have been an accident. But in the world of Consciousness there are no accidents. Either it was the hand of God or Dick Cheney and friends. Stupid George didn't even need to know, Out of respect to your parameters, I will not suggest anything further without proof,....still, I think it will be revealed that Paul,family and staff were intentionally removed. Nuff said. Thanks for the reigns, but we shall not wear them forever.

eddievalgould,

Can I please ask why you said "they" took out Paul Wellstone? I think these boards are not a place where conspiracy theories should thrive. It was just a unfortunate event that Wellstone died but it was by no means planned. And for the record, neither was 9/11! The Bushies just used it as an excuse to justify their neoconservative program.

RichM,

Indeed, some of the participants here are hard to please. I can get you, for instance, to call me a Dem Party shill without ever mentioning the word Democrat.

You and some others here seem to think judges don't matter much. I suspect the lady who lost her pay discrimination suit against Goodyear Tire in the new
Alito-tilted Court last term would differ. And while you're bashing away on the keyboard, I suspect there are thousands of other people similarly situated with workplace discrimination problems now shut out of justice who would differ as well.

You're not telling your readers how to avoid the next Giuliani or Thompson judicial picking round, and I'm hoping some readers will wonder why not. After all, what is a "progressive" site for but to advocate for decent interpretation of our Constitution? And it's those lifetime judges who do that.

frank1569

I LOVE IT!

What the hack, capitalist is all we have for the now. Better to speak from whatever platform than non at all.
We are all on somebodies watch list, gotta get over that. May I suggest using your own name on everything you say and do. No more code names, leave a paper trail as wide and long as possible. Get to be known in your locale and then if something should happen to you everyone who knows you can talk about it, shout about it. Do not let them secretly take you away. They shot a volley across the bowe when they took out Paul Wellstone and many Senators and Congressmen became cowardly, I suppose fearing the same for themselves or their families. I admit for myself, being without children does help, but those who can and have the apptitudes neccessary need to face and make the music. It is a calling of the soul and it does It feel good...win or lose.
Recently, in my hometown, I resisted a very large jail expansion to be placed in the center of our downtown. It's size and placement and symbology were atrocious to any awakened, gentle being. I wrote letter after letter in opposition using language not heard in small town newspapers. Most citizens though opposed were silent, at least some for fear of retribution, but on the streets people would give me the thumbs up or tell me to keep on writing. Miraculously at the 11th hour the county commissioners mysteriously began to crumble. One goddess commissioner had resisted from the beginning and a second gentleman agreed, they were outnumbered 3 to 2 but at last a 3rd vote shifted and the others did follow and the whole jail project was shockingly abandoned. God's hand was definitely in the hearing room when it happened and the proponants were stunned. A $25,000,000 fete a'complete had unraveled.
I'm sure I've made many enemies and that the coppers will be watching me plenty, but if anything should happen to me the entire community will know why.
I believe the way is to not let them overrun you where you live. Don't know who said it but, "Think globally, act localy." is true. People will hear you and see you and take heart. Be unrelenting in your truth. People will find respect in you and then in themselves if you are humble, yet bold.
I know this is a small instance in a large confusing world. Yet, I have seen a crack in their armour and I know now more than ever that one can find joy and strength and further commitment via self-respect and then acting on it. Step into your vision and faith becomes Knowledge and always leave a large paper trail. The Naomi Wolf's and Medea Benjamin's, the Paul Wellstone's of the world are so brave, they are hero's, I love them. I pray we need no more martyr's, but perhaps we may.
Impeach, Impeach, Impeach!!!
I am a new writer to this site, and to some extent I'm preaching to the choir. Pardon my greeness with the process. Still growing at 63.

Did someone say it's confrontation time? Finally!

Do not fear this "watch list." Instead, let's overwhelm it. The more names on the list, the more ridiculous it becomes. For the extra gutsy, contact the Feds and ask to be placed on this "watch list" for your own protection. Who knows what might happen in the future - you may have a bad thought about the Loonitary Decider one day, and you want to be a good citizen.

Protesters: evolve. Stop with the '60s reruns - no one's watching. Find and implement new tactics and strategies, like "drive by" protests - say, at a certain Senator's favorite restaurant. A couple of vans full of protesters pull up, unload, do their thing and then split before the cops arrive. Variations on that theme are encouraged.

Think "The Art of War." Hit them where they are weakest and least prepared. The element of surprise is key - and a high level of energy and excitement will bait the media into more and more coverage.

Reverse protests: nothing grabs and holds an audience's attention like comedy. Imagine thousands marching on the Capitol IN SUPPORT of everything Bush: "More Tax Cuts for the Rich!" "No Health Insurance for Poor Kids!" "We Love War!" "Support Illegal Spying!!" "Torture Rules! The Constitution Sucks!" And when the media goes for the sound bite, be sure to support every Bush horror with a smile!

Just a few ideas to help inspire the still hopeful who are ready to take off the gloves...

Has anyone read the October 2007 article by Garret Keizer in Harpers magazine titled Specific suggestion: General strike? He suggests Election Day, November 6, 2007. We need to do something that will make an impact. I am tired of demonstrating and writing and calling Congress. The news media is worthless. We can't count on elections. We do need a place to gather ideas. What about a general strike? How would it be publicized and organized? Any ideas?

One man's conspiracy theory is another man's truth.
"Conspiracy Theory' was created in the well funded, rightwng laboratories of Heritage Foundation & Cato Institute to dicredit liberals!
All detective work is based on theory..............then begins the work of proving the theory to be correct or incorrect!
Certainly enough theories of "plots" conspiracys, have proved to be true once evidence is collected. WHen th evidence is destroyed, spirited away, or not kept untouched, there;s the first clue that a conspiracy exhists!

superjls,
I am already being quietly 'popped off".............financially.!
7 years your elder I am now dependant on my SS income! Not able to go get a job cleaning houses or bartending as I used to do to get past the lean times in the art field ( they didn't begin until the mid 80's mind you when so many giddy ones were racking in profits from the stock market.)
There is NO WAY I can even afford to get to a peace rally, even one 60 miles away!
The BOTTOM line, I am running $436.00 in the RED; EVERY SINGLE MONTH. No luxuries, birdseed is a luxury, as is fabric softerner, air freshener, all those things we get coupons for that you can exist with out!
People shy away from hearing this! Why? "It must be my fault, it WOULDN"T happen to them!
Why? They don't want to think too hard about it, because then they'll realize they are headed for the same place!
I am not in tears..........I'm bellowing with outrage! I'm furious!
I worked very hard all my life, physical work and the highest mental work, 10/7........W, should only keep a schedule like I did.
And I was raising 2 children, a single Mother. When the children were out of the nest, when I should have been feathering MY nest in my 50's ( the horrible 90's,) with a retirement fund, I was marginalized, bounced out by the Regan Bush recession.
Although I had been well worth $25.00 poer hour from 1973 - 1989, the highest paid job I could get was $7.00 per hour. The boss expected $25.00 per hour work, for that in sweatshop conditions, based on viewing my portfolio! It gets worse!.........
I was hired to do a 1, ONE mural. and then laid off from my bartending job ( not my doing, our corporate diners were reorganizing and didn't come in for their $2,000. dinners!) SO when I owed the IRS the self employment tax, I didn't have it...............only $500. but I didn't have it. So they put it in "uncollectable" And there it stayed for 6 years UNTIL I was a DEAN DELEGATE to the Dem convention. 2004. TWO WEEKS AFTER BUSH STOLE THAT ELECTION TOO, they levied my $400. state property tax rebate!
If I were making laws..............No person who made $60,000. TOTAL, in 9 years, should have to pay 1 penny into income tax!
Mind you CLINTON was President at this time!
Yes you better believe you are being watched!
Now to the giddy single SUV drivers and madcap shoppers addressed by nyccat, you need to start connecting the dots! Your Parents & Grandparents knew how. Some of them actually saved money for several years to be able to have me come in and paint a mural in their home. WHo saves money for anything nowadays?
My problems start with my Profession: becoming OTHER! Look on any list, here is NO CHOICE for Artist on any list! The general population has forgotten how to support that very important, softening humanitarian, enriching, piller of society, ( indeed could this be part of what is wrong with AmeriKa today?) People would rather support little uglies from china! They're cheap, you can own a whole bunch of them for the money you would pay to an artist, for a painting, to keep a dying lifestyle alive.
The non-profits have stolen my profession.......................and given it to the kids! And what do they do with it? Already burdoned with $30,000 of debt thanks to the spendthrifts in office, how do they acctualize their creative self. Art is NOT a hobby. It is a lifestyle, an athletic event, just like Tiger Wood's golf game, with a much higher thinking componant ! ( Hey! I am good at hitting a hole in one!) Can Woods paint? That painting in 1/2 hour TV guy is a total fraud! Good Art takes more than 1/2 hour!
Please come to Downeast Maine Naomi Wolf! There are too many people here neither in tears or anger! Maybe you could open their eyes, I have been trying for 6 years!

Regarding "jobson's" comment, for many years I have been doing exactly what you suggest, putting my energy into political activism, even changing careers and obtaining an advanced degree in a field devoted to that very purpose. However, what I have found is that all the political activism in the world will accomplish absolutely nothing if people don't or can't back it up at the ballot box. If you doubt this, look at Burma.

Please keep in mind that democracy, as opposed to plutocracy, is founded on the assumption that voting trumps funding as a means of change. Even those with limited means can vote for change, whereas change through funding is slow and arduous at the grass-roots level. What we have right now is what Greg Palast terms "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy." It is time to begin seeing the big picture instead of planning to build another anthill.

www.raycarlson.com

Dem Party shill 'Daniel David' (1:12 pm) asks, "From what kind of president do you suppose we can get judges appointed who think like that?", hoping to get readers to scream "From a DEMOCRATIC president!"

The Democrats allowed Rehnquist, Scalia, Alito, and Roberts onto the Supreme Court without the slightest opposition. They didn't even seriously try to stop Clarence Thomas. When Al Gore ran for president in 2000, he chose Joe Lieberman as his running mate. The current Congressional Dems have hardly opposed a single Bush nominee for anything, supinely approving even the likes of Alberto Gonzales & John Ashcroft.

Of the 4 SCOTUS judges who sided with Gore during Bush v Gore, TWO of them (Stevens & Souter) were appointed by Republican presidents.

In the matter of torture, where is the evidence that Democrats oppose it any more seriously than Republicans? They went happily along with last year's Military Commissions Act. Kerry failed to even make an issue of Abu Ghraib in 2004.

There is no substance to the myth that Democrats occupy any sort of moral high ground. They are the junior partners of Republicans -- period.

Marching in the streets won't work, as long as we continue to march to the stores to buy useless baubles that we don't need. In fact, even when people march, the media doesn't cover it, so how does that help? Sure when I march in support of cancer assistance for the poor, I feel good for a moment, but unless it's covered how does that extend pass the people who are directly involved.

Sadly the only way to make a stand is to start a boycott site, or someway to communicate where we could join forces and decide together what product, company, etc that we will no longer support. Individuality hasn't work. Can't do anything one by one, no matter how much one sacrifices. One thing I do know is that most of us love to gather online and discuss our frustrations, so why not gather to come up with ideas that may work. I know that I have been schooled by CommonDreams.

We can't wait for a hero, or someone who says they will do this or that. We've done that too many times without much success. I'm not even concerned who the corps will pick for president because I don't believe much will change. In spite of this I will vote for someone who espouses my beliefs but I'm not going to hold my breath.

We are living in fear which is what "they" want, and I don't blame us, we truly have more to fear than fear itself. Live by the sword; die by the sword. In the case of Corporations they live by the dollar and that's what we must drain them of in order to get them under control. It's not over for us until we believe it.

I wish I had the expertise and following to start such a website, but I'm not even of amateur status. Perhaps I could learn but it would probably take a long time :(

key89, why not put one's efforts into poltical activism rather than electing tweedle dee or tweedle dum? I think some would say that people waste their money on funding political parties when they could be funding activism.

"To my great relief, Americans are smart and brave and they are unflinching in their readiness to hear the worst and take action. And they love their country".

It is also a great relief for me and I'm sure for the rest of the poster here on CD to hear that Americans are now awake and see what is truly happening to our country. As one of our presidents has said: the only thing to fear is the fear itself. So, let us not be afraid. Let us constantly, day in day out write e-mails to the White House and to all the corporate representatives in Congress as well as all corporate media and tell them bravely what we think they are, and what consequences they would face at the hands of this great people if they continue on their path towards fascism.

This nation will take their country back and once again prove to the world what America and Americans stand for: freedom, democracy, Justice, compassion, and peace. Americans will get rid of the putrid stench of Bush/Cheney and their minions.

If anyone wants to put my name on any list: I am Saila Peneman

The most important way to exorcise democracy from the phantoms of fascism is to exercise it at the ballot box, and to exhort others to do so as well. We can be reasonably certain that throngs of Americans will be voting in the next election. What we need, more now than ever before, is to convince those on the fence to participate in a system that, while not perfect, is open to change. Even a flawed democracy such as ours beats a police state.

Assuming a large enough landslide in next year's election and minimal electronic voting fraud, We The People could send a loud enough message to make elected officials less impervious to our influence than they are now. They need to be awakened from the corporate-induced illusion that they answer to corporate shareholders alone. But for this to take place, more of us have to recognize ourselves as shareholders in the American system. Our actions next November, or perhaps our inaction, will be the greatest single influence upon democracy in not only America, but the rest of the world.

www.raycarlson.com

Speaking of Ron Paul, he won the CNBC/MSNBC debate poll in every area questioned by about 85% leaving all the others in the dust. And CNBC took it off their website. MSNBC may still have it up. And he won by only recieving 6% of the time during the debate.

He may be anti-abortion and more for free markets, but he is for personal freedom, is a strict Constitutionalist and is against the war in Iraq, the IRS and the Federal Reserve. Which is why the establishment is doing it's damndest to marginalize the guy.

If the computer's aren't hacked (and I have every reason to think they will be), I believe when the actual votes start coming in he'll win the Republican nomination in a landslide.l

If you can't find the MSNBC poll, I'll post it.

We have to understand that "they" are more scared of us than we are of "they."

It would be interesting if the police start blowing the whistle on each other for constitution violations.