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For What Did They Die?
It is autumn, and the air is crisp and cool at night at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, D.C.
It gets very quiet at The Wall around midnight. The tourists have gone home, and are all tucked into bed.
A homeless Vietnam veteran patrols the black granite panels. He tells us that he has cancer and is having a hard time getting any benefits from the Veterans Administration. He lives in a mission that houses those who have nowhere else to go, but the doors don't open until 11 p.m.
He sees my interest in Panel 3-East, the third panel to the east of the apex of the memorial, and he asks if I was there at the Ia Drang Valley battles that contributed 305 of the names that are on that panel. I nod, and he grows animated. "Oh, I know these guys well. Or at least I know their names." He begins calling the roll to prove it: "Henry T. Herrick, John Geoghegan, Willie Godboldt, Travis Poss, Carl Palmer, Wilbur Curry, Thomas C. Metsker . . . ."
Twenty, then 30 of the names trip off his lips. "I tell people about them when they ask."
So do I.
We slip a few bucks into his hand for something to eat and he wanders off into the night, heading for the mission and a cot where he can rest his head until 7 a.m., when he and the other homeless are shooed out to begin another day of waiting for something good, finally, to happen to them.
I hope that he lives long enough to collect some benefits and get some medical help from the VA, although given the 6- 8-month backlog in processing veterans' claims, there's no guarantee that he will.
I stand before Panel 3-East and slowly scan those names, remembering their stories, their hometowns, their wives and children, remembering, too, how and where they died and what it all means.
Did they die so that a brother veteran can die waiting in line for a little help from the nation that sent them all off to war in the prime of their youth?
Did they die so that four decades later, an American president and his cronies could start another needless war in a far-off land, a war that to date has dragged on almost as long as the one they fought in Southeast Asia?
Did they die so that wounded veterans of that war could come home to a lot of "Welcome Home" greetings and a lot of "Support Our Troops" bumper stickers, but facing the same fight that America's veterans have always faced when they try to get treatment and benefits from our Army and our Veterans Administration?
Did they die so that an administration full of draft dodgers and draft avoiders and almost bereft of anyone who ever wore a uniform or heard a shot fired in anger could prance around presenting themselves as wartime leaders?
Did they die so that 10,000 craven politicians could stand on bandstands and make speeches full of empty praise for those who protect and defend this country and make empty promises of how they guarantee that our wounded, our new veterans, will be treated better than their fathers and grandfathers were when they came home from their wars?
The men and women who wear the uniform today are, many of them, on their fourth or fifth combat tours in Afghanistan or Iraq. They and their families do all the suffering and sacrificing for the rest of us.
Meanwhile over in the Pentagon, the bean counters run their computers and come up with the good news: The economic meltdown in America, the growing ranks of the unemployed, the complete lack of work or prospect of a decent future in the rural and urban backwaters of a great nation make for a boom in enlistments in our voluntary military.
If you sign on the bottom line because you have no other alternative, no other way out of nowhereville, are you really a volunteer?
The bands will play, and the old veterans will march proudly and the politicians will run their mouths this Veterans Day, just as they do every Veterans Day.
And the 400,000 dead of World War II and the 40,000 dead of Korea and the 58,260 dead of Vietnam and the 4,500 dead of Iraq and Afghanistan will rest silent and uneasy under the modest white marble tombstones that a grateful nation has provided them free of charge.
Across town, an old and ailing veteran of one of those wars will line up tonight for a cot in a mission and wonder whether he can live long enough to collect from the bureaucrats what we owe him.
On Army posts around the nation, the battalions and brigades and divisions are either just coming home after a year or more at war while other battalions and brigades are just saying their goodbyes and heading back out on their third or fourth or fifth deployments.
"Where have all the flowers gone?
Gone for soldiers, every one.
When will they ever learn?"
- Posted in
56 Comments so far
Show AllFace it . . . the dead of Iraq died for nothing, absolutely nothing, unless you think that overflowing toilet called George Wanker Bush's ego is sufficient reason to be blown out of this life.
"the dead of Iraq died for nothing, absolutely nothing"
Of course they died for something: they died so the wealthy investment class could get much wealthier: those of Haliburton, Blackwater, oil investors like the Bush family, and the entire defense industry. That is something, isn't it?
They didn't die for me, they didn't die "serving their country." They died serving the greed of the plutocracy that hired them. They chose a hazardous occupation. The thing about choosing to kill people for a living is that sometimes the people you are trying to kill fight back. Oops.
Whether they died or not, US military personnel did not serve their country in Korea nor Southeast Asia nor Grenada nor Kosovo nor Panama nor Iraq and not even really in Afghanistan. Men and women of the armed forces in these places served the country's rulers as military men and women have served their country's rulers in non-defensive, aggressive wars throughout history: to add to the power and wealth of the rulers.
Most often in such aggressive wars, the rulers are not just the king, emperor, czar, or president who lead, but the wealthy class behind them that will callously send the the common people to kill for them and die for them. The ruling class are no different than the capos of the mafia that send their "soldiers" out to break legs, heads, and bodies. Those that volunteer to be soldiers for the military or the mafia, are murderous thugs. No more, no less.
The answer to all the questions as to what they died for should be a resounding NO.
"Where have all the flowers gone?
Gone for soldiers, every one.
When will they ever learn?"
This is the real song of the Viet Nam era.
I've read several firsthand accounts of various wars. The thing that stands out is that, contrary to all the tripe politicians tell us, when it comes down to it and a guy is in actual battle, he's there for the guy next to him and for his buddies. There's no honor, no Go America!, it's just "me and my buddies". That to me says far more than all the filthy mythological crap we get from history books and politicians. AND...this feeling is universal. If you read German or Russian accounts of WW2 for example, the soldiers say the same thing. I got the impression that a majority of German soldiers in WW2 would have shot Hitler dead if they had the chance.
I think that is fairly accurate, though many wish to serve their country too. But it is absolutely accurate in a fire fight. Good thing Nixon didn't visit Nam.
How pathetic "we" really are - some company run by bank robbers gets "cancer" and receives undeserved billions in "benefits" before the market closes, yet our Veterans have to wait 6-8 months just to be treated like a human.
Oh, I mean, the big story today - some little douche bag wins millions playing f**king cards, or was it that Brittany's kid doesn't have a stomach ache anymore...
They died that there be no war no more, nowhere, never, not even one.
As a recovering Republican conservative turned Democrat, I can tell you that it's going to take more pain and suffering until people really wake up from ignorance and realize that their shoot first and ask later attitude along with their self-centered ignorance is what is hurting them and each other. I for one became sick and tired of being a fringe warmonger as I realized how this thinking ended up dragging my wife and two daughters into misery and poverty. Even today I still stutter in fear asking myself what if my wife were not so kind to reform me out of my misery? I fear that some things will get worse before they'll get better. Obama will try to temper down the mess in Iraq but don't expect the rightwing media or even the ignorant masses to look at this kindly. Hang in there folks. We've got a rough storm to ride.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
"Hang in there folks. We've got a rough storm to ride."
Good point. It is going to get worse before better for certain.
Sioux Rose
TERRANCE: One of the greatest demonstrations of spiritual humility comes from admitting you were wrong, and are able to change course. Further, it takes great courage to admit this in a forum. I am slowly working on my companion, who raised by very rigid rightwing conservative parents, carries a good many unexamined prejudices. Do not forget the parable of the Prodigal Son... the one who was lost, but regains a sense of purpose and direction is treasured by Creative forces.
Hi SR,
That's interesting. I got to admit though. Getting people to admit they're wrong is the toughest challenge in this country at least compared to just about any other country I think. They only learn the hard way and that's when it's too late as I was forced to find out. And I admit, on some nights I still don't sleep well having that psychological fear of "what if my wife didn't bail me out of my misery and reform me?" nightmares even though it's less frequent and my wife is still working to keep me less worried and overcome the trauma. Even my two daughters get so worried about my health and well-being that they'll give up going to their friends over for some play time all too often. I'm getting a feeling that people are afraid of what's to come once they admit their mistakes and so do everything they can to desperately cover up only to make matters worse. As Thomas More pointed out, what's likely to happen is things will get rougher and worse before there's a turnaround for the better. I just hope that more innocent people are not dragged into this mess.
P.S.: I need to get some info on Prodigal Son.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
The ultimate of conspiracy theories!!!!:
The current economic disaster is an intentional policy of the moneyed classes to loot the treasury and as a bonus, provide cannon-fodder for our upcoming imperialistic adventures.
Or not - but in the dim recesses of my feeble mind........
But I could be wrong !
Curmudgeon- You're making me laugh! I hope you're wrong too!
Laugh while you can, hamster. Curmudgeon is correct on this point. Try going to other websites such as Global Research, Infowars, Online Journal and start weighing more of the available information.
They died for the military industrial complex and the corporate masters. The good news is the corporations are losing interest in America for growth in the rest of the world. The bad news is the reason they are losing interest is all the money is gone and all the borrowing has arranged it so that all of us will be working for nothing from here on in.
I'd like to suggest to you that they may have died because of them, but certainly not for them.
Joseph L. Galloway made me cry. How will we get our gov't to stop war? Alice Walker had some nice words on DemocracyNow today. The show is up online until tomorrow's show goes up. Aaron Glantz was on at the end of the 2nd segment (of two). The transcript is already online www.democracynow.org.
Jeevee
Excellent comments, all. I wish everyone in the U.S.A. could read them, as well as the article. We ALL need to pray for courage, whether or not you believe in God.
"We ALL need to pray" - I completely disagree. For 99% of the people who might pray, praying means praying to a god, means praying to "the" God, means praying to the God of their own religion, means buying into the religion's Us versus Them mentality. And Us versus Them leads to WAR. We need to all STOP praying.
Please feel free not to pray.
Thomas, another thing I could have said about you is that I like your Texas humor. I've spent some time in New Orleans where I bumped into a lot of Texans and I got to really appreciate the humor.
"Please feel free not to pray". LOL
"Please feel free not to pray" reminds me of the bumper sticker that said "If you don't like abortions, don't have one." It could as easily have been framed, "If you don't like abortions feel free not to have one."
There are more ideas that could be framed in the same way: "If you don't like homosexual marriage, please feel free not to have one."
Never-the-less, humor aside, I agree with Kane Jeeves position that religion sets people apart leading to war and praying indicates religion - if not, then what would be the purpose of prayer?
Furthermore, prayer to solve a problem distracts the mind from finding a reasoned solution to the problem. Therefore, prayer is counter productive.
"If you don't like abortions, don't have one."
I agree with most of your examples except this one, the obvious problem being that so many people think abortion is murder.
yes STOP PRAYING and start doing something for real. It's time to stop kneeling to a nonexistent being and talking to the air above your head. "pray" give me a break!
did they die for this?
http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=66754
God bless you.
as if sitting in front of a computer screen, pretending to be a know it all is any better? aren't you praying to a plastic screen hoping for enlightenment? you sure act it.
Your comment is rude and ill-founded. I see no one here who pretends to "know it all," just people expressing opinions.
just so you know my opinion is right.
Perhaps it is, but then that would be my opinion if I think so. Meanwhile, rudeness and rude assumptions weaken any case your opinion may have and is unlikely to open the offended person's mind to wish to give fair consideration to your opinions.
Oh, and doesn't the "you know my opinion is right" that you wrote here mean "you are pretending to be a know it all" which is what you accused goddlessrant of?
Get off your knees, get on your feet, stand up and start working. What can you make locally? Can you make food? Can you organise a local group to do useful things for your community? Those who who survived on BS in the recent past will be mighty hungry in the near future. Start learning new skills, how did your grandparents do things? They never prayed for courage, they prayed for rain or sunshine or a less miserable prick for a landlord, boss, priest etc. Just get going at it, the fear will dissipate and the need for courage will recede as well. The mess in the USA is a result of bad leadership for the ordinary folk and extraordinarily lucrative leadership for the elite wealthy.
Above all else no more going to war, it is not good for people.
Jeevee:some of us don't pray but your sentiments are welcomed.
"If you sign on the bottom line because you have no other alternative, no other way out of nowhereville, are you really a volunteer?"
I'm sick of this one. The quick answer is "yes", but the longer answer is a question: Will you please submit one iota of evidence that this is the *only* reason a significant number volunteer?
"Only" reason...come on, life is not that simple. But you can't possibly deny that lots of young people (and not so young)--from poor rural areas or depressed urban neighbourhoods--with very little prospects for decent jobs, enlist because they have very little other choice. Nothing could be more obvious.
To argue with that is the same as to argue that women become prostitutes because they really feel like doing that, and could be lawyers and accountants if they felt like it.
"But you can't possibly deny that lots of young people (and not so young)--from poor rural areas or depressed urban neighbourhoods--with very little prospects for decent jobs, enlist because they have very little other choice. Nothing could be more obvious."
I'm sure it is true for some small number, but this is the problem, without any numbers it's not "obvious" that so many join for this reason. I think you and the author are merely *guessing*, in the direction that fits with your world view. Try to look at a little more critcally.
"To argue with that is the same as to argue that women become prostitutes because they really feel like doing that, "
Ridiculous, as if it's a foriegn idea to you that many who serve think it's honorable to do so.
"little other choice"
As your name says: get real!
You do have choices:
You can choose to kill people for a living.
You can choose to not kill people for a living.
Options to not kill people for a living include: not volunteering. If you need to eat and can't find a job, go on the street and beg, sleep in a mission or under a bridge. After all, when you are done killing people in some far off land for the rich bastards, the rich bastards will leave you to quite possibly end up homeless on the street anyway. At least if you choose the street instead of the gun, your conscious will be at ease, and you'll still have all your body parts and your sanity.
If there is a draft, cross a border: their are dozens of countries in the world where the leaders don't kill for profit.
Or choose jail to avoid killing instead of killing and deserving jail: aggressive wars are a crime under the US Constitution and International Law.
Or go underground and help start a revolution against those that would have you kill others for profit. That isn't treason, that is what Jefferson said we should do: if the government doesn't work, change it.
To go to a illegitimate war is to choose to become a hired killer. To make such a choice is not brave, not heroic, nothing to be proud of - that choice is cowardly and despicable.
And the dead will pile up in Afghanistan if Obama doesn't wake up soon. No good reason exists for that war either, unless you think Osama Bin Laden is still hanging around.
It doesn't matter if binLaden is hanging around any more. The collateral damage of waging a diffuse "war on terror" has dissipated any good will toward America in the world, and particularly in the middle east. The time for "going after bin Laden" with the backing of the world, or to any good effect, is long gone. It doesn't matter if binLaden is dead or alive. There are many replacements for him, and they will continue to multiply as long as we keep up our belligerent and malignant intrusion into their lands. The only answer is to get out of the middle east now. As a bonus we get to spend all the money we're throwing away there to put americans to work here rebuilding our infrastructure (i.e. minding our own damn business).
"Al Queda" started out as a label on a file at the CIA. Al Queda, a creation of the CIA. And yes, the CIA will always be able to come up with replacements.
Jim Swanson, Los Altos, CA
www.bushleagueofnations.com [For FREE downloads of entire book]
In his farewell address to the nation on January 17, 1961, Dwight Eisenhower, America’s 34th president, presciently warned America against the growing power of its military-industrial complex, and I believe he would turn over in his grave if he knew how incredibly more dominant and dangerous that military-industrial complex has become.
America’s increasingly concentrated corporate media should be added to that powerful complex, thus making it the “military-industrial-media” complex.
America’s total military spending is more than the combined total of the next 14 most militarized nations, at least 10 of which are members of NATO or close friends of America.
This and much more is discussed in, “The Bush League of Nations: The Coalition of the Unwilling, the Bullied and the Bribed – the GOP’s War on Iraq and America,” by James A. Swanson (2008, CreateSpace Publishing, 448 pages).
Regarding America’s finest, set forth on pages 399-400 is a detailed “Six-Point Plan to Support America’s Troops.”
As a gift to patriots everywhere, the entire book can be downloaded for FREE at http://www.bushleagueofnations.com. Please pass along the good news.
I ask for nothing in return, except that you consider using my book to help restore and build America.
Please stay engaged. Electing Obama was the easy part.
In the words of Eisenhower, "Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
Jim Swanson, Los Altos, CA
www.bushleagueofnations.com
They died in Vietnam so that a collection of corrupt military-industrial corporations, military executives, and other special interests could make a fortune. They died in Iraq for the same collection of criminals. If they were "serving their country," they'd have stormed the White House and reclaimed the government for the people.
If they were "serving their country," they'd have stormed the White House and reclaimed the government for the people.
True. Jefferson said that if government doesn't work, change it. Instead of serving their country, US soldiers went abroad to kill innocent people for the aggrandizement of the killers that hired them.
Once upon a time a warrior was a true defender of his land and his king.
Once upon a time a soldier was an honorable profession and honestly worked to protect his homeland.
The Military has become a tool. It is a tool used by corporations to make money. There is no honor in it anymore. There is only a fool's honor.
The fool that stands in Iraq and thinks he is defending freedom while back home his own commader in chief is wrinting away as much freedom as he can.
The fool that thinks that the Marines are a brotherhood and that he'll be "taken care of" and won't be left behind.
The fool that believes he is portecting America from terrorists and that terrorists are always "plotting to get us".
Today's soldier is nothing but a pawn in a rigged chess game. He's nothing more than a disposable tool used to line the pockets of greedy cowards.
Sad Truth.
War is the preferred method of concentrating wealth and power. All War. All war is commercial expansion by force.
I listened to NPR today, D Rheem Show w/a stand-in, about the "genocide" in the Congo. The whole show, except for 1/2 sentence, was useless blather about the political/war lord clusterfu*k and what to do...send in the UN, train armies, make deals, etc.
The 1/2 sentence? "...Congo, the location of the largest non-petroleum cache of precious minerals on the planet..."
Never said the words "corporation" or "commercial interests" in the whole hour.
Oil in Iraq. Poppies in Afghanistan. Coke in Columbia. NG in Equador. on&on
Politicians would say that they died for our way of life. I say that they died for our lifestyle. It needs blood sacrifice.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Some wars come along that must be fought. Hitler and the horror of the Nazis comes to mind. But that is rare. The rest of the time, it is strictly for somebody's gain--$$$, or political, or geo-strategic, etc.--and people die for nothing. It's sad and tragic beyond description.
And little chicken-hawks like Cheney, Bushy-boy, Dumsfeld, Rove, Wolfowitz, et al, who get Daddy deferments, etc., send off other people's children to get butchered and maimed for their greed and imperialistic fantasies.
Cowards and tyrants.
I agree with Kane.
They died for the human being next to them, not any of the monsters who lead this "great" nation. And they died unnecessarily. How many deaths would have happened had no action been taken?
I'm a dependent of a Vet from Vietnam and I receive certain benefits toward my college education because one thing and one thing only.
Not because my father was there.
Not because he fought galliently.
Not because he did anything special whatsoever.
I get education benefits because he got cancer and is now 100% disabled. Yay for me....??
While these benefits are convenient I found myself, as a 16 year old high school senior, battling the government and trying to prove to them that I deserved said money. I was young and was intimidated by the local office, let alone the regional one. I'm still going through this process years later and have been trying to get benefits for at least 6 months now. in order to get these you need to be persistent. IT's a pain in the ass but it's life. If I can do it at 16, vets can do it when they return from war. they signed the paper to join the fucking thing, they can sign a paper to get money.
What aout the 100,000 or more dead innocents in Iraq and millions in Vietnam? Who builds a memorial to them? They are the real victims. Their countries invaded and left in ruins. They families and lives torn to pieces.
Who in the U.S. cries for them?
"Who in the U.S. cries for them?"
I do, damn near every day I do.
For the farmer and his kids dragged off to an internment camp, totally losing his farm and buildings in the valley below my childhood home. For the incinerated in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, in all those villages of Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia. For the cities in both North and South Vietnam leveled by carpet bombing with the people in them. For the people who died from the fire-bombing in the working class neighborhood in the City of Panama where the memory of a pretty girl still haunts me.
For them I cry. Alone. My voice crying in the bustling wilderness of citizens swept along in the "American lifestyle." They won't hear me here, but then, then don't really here me out there either. So-called "Liberal's" overwhelmingly elected the enabler to mass murder, Pelosi, in San Francisco instead of electing a woman who desperately tried to stop it.
If the people in the most liberal and supposedly most anti-war city in the nation fail to see how to stop the carnage and do, there will be many more millions of dead innocents to cry for in the future.
Not alone.
What about the 100,000 or more dead innocents in Iraq and millions in Vietnam? Who builds a memorial to them? They are the real victims. Their countries invaded and left in ruins. They families and lives torn to pieces.
Who in the U.S. cries for them?