HighKarate,

I know this is a frustrating time, but please don’t yell. We already know you’re serious about your opinions.

Here’s a math word problem for you: If Train R is going west toward the Grand Canyon (1 mile away) at 90 miles an hour and the engineer has disabled the brakes, and Train D is on the same track going the same direction (1.1 mile away) at 70 miles an hour, and the engineer has disabled the brakes, how long before either train gets us to Washington DC?

Since none of us blowhards can say why to vote for someone other than a Democrat (to your satisfaction, though I think several have to my satisfaction), thank you for doing it for us:

Conscience is a perfect reason, thank you. If you know a vote for Nader or the Greens would make your conscience rest easier, why do we need to even continue the discussion? Maybe to find out what 100 other reasons you’re talking about? I think there are at least that many, and apparently so do you, so why are we arguing? If the Republicans are against us, and the Democrats are with the Republicans, (as demonstrated by vote after vote after vote after vote after vote…Ric Abreu’s 14 are only a small start) who is for us? I will happily vote for someone powerful who believes what I believe, wants what I want, and acts as I act. If there is no one powerful like that I will vote for someone who is with me and for me, and thus make them powerful. Yes, it may take some time. But it would happen faster if everybody in the country would vote both their conscience and their desires, and if we all worked for what we really want it could happen amazingly quickly.

What does it say about someone who refuses to ask for what they want? What does it say about someone who refuses to work for what they want? What does it say about someone who instead works for a group who has said they will work against what that person wants?

(And yes, you got it right. To reach DC one of the trains would have to turn around. And quickly, cause we’re comin up to that cliff fast. )

How original. DPA argument #1 "THE REPUBLICAN TROLL"

highkarate displays the basic right wing tendency that is the hallmark of a Democrat. Democrats cannot fathom the existance of anyone being to their left or someone being opposed to Democrats on principle. In their minds anyone not supporting a Dim must be a Pug or shouldn't exist. Only Dims and Pugs should exist.

They think Democrats deserve votes and anyone that thinks otherwise is secretly trolling or isn't entitled to have a point of view. They think only people who support the sellout Dims should be allowed to post. They aren't far from becoming anti-free speech fascists.

The "Republican Troll" argument is really no argument at all. Basically its a clever attempt to change the subject and put Democratic dissenters on the defensive. It's a red herring, it's weak and decrepit and it lacks any rationale. It's what you say when you have nothing good to say about Dims except they aren't Pugs. Wow, like that really says a lot. Nice try.

K-Delphi, Ric Abrieu, Errol, -

NOT ONE OF YOU BLOWHARDS CAN SAY WHY HOW WHERE WHEN IN THE HELL VOTING FOR NADER IS BETTER THAN VOTING FOR OBAMA.

YES VOTING FOR YOUR CONSCIOUS IS GREAT, IF YOU ARE LIVING IN YOUR PARENTS BASEMENT, OR ARE NOT RAISING KIDS, OR FOR A HUNDRED OTHER ISSUES.

TELL ME WHY VOTING FOR NADER NOW....NOWWWWWWWWWWW, AND GIVING MCAIN/PALIN A GLIMPSE AT THE WHITE HOUSE IS A GOOD IDEA?

NOT ONE OF YOU PEOPLE CAN TELL ME WHY THIS IS A GOOD IDEA!

YOU ARE ALL DISHONEST AND A BUNCH OF CIRCLE JERKS. Y'ALL GO ROUND AND ROUND AND SAY THAT ALL OR EVEN MOST OF US ARE DEMOCRATS OR ARDENT OBAMA SUPPORTERS WHEN WE SAY TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT WE WOULD RATHER HAVE SOMEONE LIKE NADER IN OFFICE, BUT THAT RIGHT NOW THE ONLY RESPONSIBLE CHOICE IS TO MAKE SURE THE MP'S OF THIS WORLD DON'T GET ANOTHER TERM IN OFFICE.

COME ON! YOU GUYS ARE EITHER REPUBLICAN TROLLS OR THIRD PARTY POSEURS WHO DON'T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT ANYBODY OR ANYTHING. NOT ONE OF YOU HAS BEEN ABLE TO TELL ME HOW YOU ARE WORKING WITH A THIRD PARTY AT THE LOCAL LEVEL ANYWAY, WHICH IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE DOING.

IF YOU THINK THIS A PLACE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS WITHOUT OFFERING ANY SOLUTIONS OR IDEAS YOU ARE ENTITLED TO THAT.

SO WHY DON'T YOU TELL US WHY YOU ARE HERE? WHY YOU THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO CONSTANTLY BASH OBAMA AND OFFER NO OTHER SOLUTIONS.

I HOPE OBAMA WINS SO WE CAN ALL RELAX A LITTLE AND FIGURE HOW WE ARE GOING TO HELP THIRD PARTIES WHILE HOLDING THE ADMINISTRATION ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT.

AND OF COURSE IF MP WINS THEN YOU CAN ALL HAVE A FIELD DAY AND DISCUSS THE END OF THE WORLD OR PARTY WITH THE TROLLS IN YOUR UNDERGROUND BUNKERS. WHICH IS PROBABLY WHERE YOU MOST FEEL AT HOME.

Within the framework of the American two-party system, mass hostility to the incumbent Republican administration has no outlet except the election of the Democrats, even though the Democratic Party has fully supported Bush’s policies, both before and after the nominal opposition party won control of Congress in the 2006 elections.

On Wednesday, both the Democratic candidate, Barack Obama, and his Republican opponent, John McCain, cast their votes in the US Senate for the Wall Street bailout, giving Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson nearly unlimited authority to supply at least $700 billion in federal funds to banks and other financial institutions by buying their worthless mortgage-backed securities. The bill which Obama and McCain supported also includes an additional $150 billion in tax cuts, mainly to business and the wealthy.

The bill was passed in the face of massive popular opposition, which Obama and the Democratic leadership of Congress, in particular, treated with open indifference in their rush to bail out their allies on Wall Street.

read more:http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/oct2008/usel-o06.shtml

wow, ric abreu, the "dims" did all of that by themselves??? they are fucking amazing. and so are you. why not provide all of us with a list of what the repulsicans have done for us over the last eight years? go ahead, include any international events, through today, that you feel might be relevant.

hang in there, ctrl-z. it is indeed difficult when dealing with blocks of stone.

Herbalist-

I don't see how an article who's only point is that Nader has maybe helped the Democrats take progressives more seriously is an important point right now. As with most of the other posts by so called progressives who are voting for Nader as a protest vote, it seems to be a vote for their own benefit. As you point out, it gives you another choice, or as others point out, they can't live with the fact that Obama will continue for the most part war and atrocities not unlike what is happening now. While this is true, it is false logic.

HOW IS A MCCAIN/PALIN PRESIDENCY GOING TO MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR THE PEOPLE ALL YOU NADER SUPPORTERS ARE TALKING ABOUT? IT SEEMS THAT A VOTE FOR NADER RIGHT NOW IS JUST A SELFISH WAY TO WASH YOUR HANDS OF ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR GOVERNMENT AND IT'S POLICIES, AS IN...HEY, DON'T BLAME ME, I DIDN'T VOTE FOR THAT GUY.

Errol, Ric Abreu et al-

STOP SPENDING ALL YOUR TIME ON COMMON DREAMS YELLING ABOUT OBAMA AND GO OUT AND DO SOMETHING FOR THE THIRD PARTIES. THEY NEED YOUR HELP ON THE LOCAL LEVEL. THE ONLY PEOPLE YOU ARE DOING A FAVOR FOR HERE RIGHT NOW IS THE REPUBLICANS. GO BUILD YOUR BUNKERS AND STOCKPILES AND SIT AROUND PLAYING CARDS TALKING ABOUT THE END OF THE WORLD AND HOW YOU IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. GO TO SOME LIBERTARIAN SITE, YOU WILL FIND FRIENDS THERE.

I apologize for the yelling but none of you NADIRS debate any of the issues, it seems you are just here to unload your personal anger and angst on the good people of CD. While this is fine, none of you have been able to offer up any good suggestions as to why voting for NADIR in this presidential election is a positive thing for the progressive movement.

I would love to have a guy like Nader, or McKinney, who I know is not a guy, or a Kucinich, but you people need to save your energy and do something in between elections and especially at the local level.

COME ON NOW, WHAT IS YOUR DEAL? ARE YOU PEOPLE JUST TROLLS? PROGRESSIVES NEED TO STICK TOGETHER, WHAT IS WITH ALL OF THE NONSENSE?

WHERE IS YOUR HEART, WHERE IS YOUR SENSE?

DPAs. Flat Earthers. Some are leaders of thought, and others are laggards. Eventually the truth will come out and become conventional wisdom. People will eventually look back and affirm that this was a time when the oligarchy was cemented under the two-party rule and we became a fascist state.

That is when the reboots and madly diseased of the world will finally catch up; when what we say becomes conventional wisdom. It's already is common knowledge among the more enlightened. Some folks can't see the light until it hits them in the face. Don't waste your time with these fools. By the time they catch up things will have already evolved.

The reason 3rd party candidates like Green Party Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader aren't viable is because the overwhelming majority of Democrats who are lead by the likes of Nancy Pelosi continue to vote for them no matter who badly they sell us out. You need to look in the mirror, those of you voting for Dims, if you want to see a good reason why things are the way they are. Wake up.

yes, let's bash the democrats while we can. of course, we should always bash the repulsicans. however, in this whole tirade of comments regarding a third party, not a single fucking word about a viable third party candidate, exclusive of ctrl-z, who, as i, wonders why we only hear from a non-viable third party candidate at each election cycle. if you people want a third party, get off your asses now, go recruit your VIABLE candidate now, lay the groundwork, then perhaps we can have a future discussion about a third party. think, people. don't just spout.

This telling us that “all Americans” believe such and such is to condition us into believing that we are alone in thinking that things must be wrong and are thus subjected to subtle peer pressure to conform to the view that is being espoused. Its prep work for more and more encroachments on our vanishing liberties.

Erroll October 5th, 2008 4:51 pm:
“The bumper sticker that Obama supporters should be displaying on their vehicles: OBAMA 08: THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS.”

If I wanted evil, I'd vote for Cthulhu. Why settle for a lesser evil?

As for voting for a third party (in my case I'm voting for the Green candidate: Cynthia McKinney) I don't want on my conscience that I helped put someone in office that continues the massacres in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia and wherever else we have our volunteer military fighting poor, brown people. Killing those people to help the corporations maintain their hegemony over the world. Even if one of the two evils makes it into office (and they surely will), I still have to live with myself and I couldn't/wouldn't knowing I helped put them there.

Today I drove under a bridge as a train thundered overhead on an overpass. The train had dozens of tanks on it. I thought about how militarized our country is becoming and how both Wall Street parties (Dims/Pugs) are in perfect agreement on this issue. The Pugs wants to focus on Iraq and the Dim wants to focus on Afghanistan.

Only a fool would deny that both parties are for war and ever larger military budgets, bailing out the wealthy criminal Wall Street bankers and further curbing civil rights. Fools are always in abundance. I cite the posts above as evidence. Don't argue with a fool unless you want to become one. Whatever.

[turdpartytroll]

The only way out of the Duopoly nightmare caused by lesser-evilists and Demopologists is to go into your voting booth on Nov 4 and do the following:

Close your eyes and chant Ralph NADER's name three times while pressing the button next to his name. Then he will appear and use his MAGIC POWERS to end war, dismantle capitalism, and give you your very own pony!

[/troll]

And why does he have to use magic? Because no matter how many of you idiots vote for him, he's not going to be President.

Voting third party is like making a wish. Only fools and children think it's actually going to accomplish anything.

Detainees, dirty bombs, hanging chads, naked Iraqi prisoners, Katrina, torture, signing statements, Guantanamo, Diebold, extraordinary rendition, Copper Green, black prisons, coalition provisional authority, undisclosed location, unmanned predator, 9-11, yellowcake, war on terror, Tora Bora, Iraq war, WMD, Enron, posse comitatus act, Abu Ghraib, Halliburton, the green zone, Falluja, Blackwater, anthrax, enemy combatants, depleted uranium, USA Patriot Act, shock and awe, warrantless wiretaps, national intelligence estimate, preventive war, embedded reporters, operation anaconda, axis of evil...

Thanks George.

The bumper sticker that Obama supporters should be displaying on their vehicles: OBAMA 08: THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS. Not exactly the best reason to give one's vote for someone running for president.

As Jesse Jackson put it in his article some weeks days ago:

“We need the leadership Barack will bring. However, the burden of fulfilling the Dream, mending the broken promise, falls on all of us. I recall the story of a meeting that labor leader A. Philip Randolph had with President Franklin Roosevelt regarding a long list of discriminatory practices blacks were facing in society and the workplace. He clearly presented the case to the president, who listened carefully and responded. Roosevelt said: "I can't just give you the rights you seek. I wish I could. I agree with everything you've said to me. Now go out and make me do it." Barack will set the tone. He will provide the vision and inspiration to move forward. But it is up to us to do the work, to demand the change that must come if the Dream is to be fulfilled. We must make it happen.

Positive activism has always been the key component in the creative tension that leads to change. The tools are ours - demonstration, legislation, litigation - and each has a place in the work of building a just, equitable society. It is the effort of committed citizens engaging in positive activism that helps make a president great."

Also:
Fear defeats more people than any other one thing in the world.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

So as June Jordan put it: "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or if we wait for some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek."

Be kind to yourself. Take heart. Then organize, organize and organize

Unemployment is now at least 11% when measured properly--not the way the US gov does.

After the Wall Street Givaway Act and others of similar ilk, and adding the likely increase of Corporate and consumer debt, the daily overseas borrow amount will increase to almost $5 Billion--double today's.

Oil has pulled-back to just under $100/bbl, but the damage the higher earlier price coupled with the continuing historicly high price continues to drive a positive feedback loop within the economy--less purchasing power leads to lower sales, leading to layoffs and business closures which leads to less purchasing power, leading to lower sales which causes futher layoffs and closures which leads to less purchasing power..... It's a downward spiral in an already damaged economy that has few reserve resources to use to bootstrap itself up.

The hedge funds' and their bank allies' massive Bear Raid on the financial sector which blew the Housing Bubble to smithereens, eliminating over $4 Trillion in less than 6 months It's possible another $2 Trillion could go by year's end. This will reinforce the positive feedback loop mentioned above. The wreckage is massive and the lawsuits will be aplenty. The DOW has yet to "correct" in the same amount as its teat the housing bubble, which means it could easily be at 7500--or lower--come January 20, 2009, and the same goes for the other exchanges. Rooting the systemic problems from the system will cost another 2-3 trillion at minimum.

The overstretched military annually uses the same amount of oil as Sweeden, and maintenence of the whole Empire and the national security state will be about 1.4 Trillion for 2007-08, and likely more for 2008-09. This is another drain on the economy and contributes to the positive feedback loop.

There will be no chance of an economic recovery until Big War and Big Money are put in their place. The downward spiral of the economy has just begun. In essence, we are at October 1929, for camparison's sake. And the global warming wild card has yet to be laid on the table. The only tools to fix the mess are not in the box of either main presidential candidate, which is to say that things will be worse by 2012. Current and potential immigrants are already voting with their feet--leaving and not entering. If your job is in the discretionary side of the economy, odds are you won't have that job by 2012 and will be lucky to have any job.

The future is very dark. And anyone saying it isn't is lying to you or is very ill-informed. Nation writer Bill Greider's analysis and suggested ideas are a place to start looking at what our future discourse ought to include.

Thanks Derek,

I guess I'm not very tech savvy. Switched to flat view: problem solved.

z -

i use the flat view due to the problems you cite. i like having the oldest at the top and then scroll to the bottom to see what's new. the best way (for me) is to address one's comment specifically to the person/handle, as I do here. having several conversations all over the place doesn't work for me. this whole thread is just one continuous discussion, imo.

ctrl-z: this reaching out to a third party is both fatalistic and idealistic at the same time. a new politics will never come into being if we continue to cling to the old. i know that third parties aren't "ready" due to a number of issues (mostly corporate power); but our not voting our consciences and aspirations will relegate them to permanent inconsequentiality.

today i finally got off my butt and gave nader $100, sheehan $50, mckinney $50 (i already donate regularly to the greens), and $25 to a real conservative congressional candidate endorsed by ron paul.

peace

Does anyone else find the "reply" function confusing?

It makes the forum non-linear. I used to being able to check the time stamp for when I made a comment and just read the comments that followed. Now I find myself jumping all over the page. I have a much harder time following other people's discussions as well. It seems to create redundant parallel discussion cliques. Plus, not everyone uses it, so some responses appear under the comment, and some appear later in the forum.

I am finding it more difficult to find out if anyone has replied to my comments.

Any thoughts? I like the concept in theory, but the application has problems. Can this be improved?

Face reality , folks.

A vote for Obama, is an understandable decision. Just stop acting like he's a big "change" agent.

He is as corporate as they come.

The only "changes" Ive heard him talk about lately, is how he is goin g to "have to scale back all those social programs"--and they were lame to begin with.

Why? Because of the $850 billion dollars that he voted for.

Ciruclar logic if there ever was any.

As has been abudantly pointed out by numerous previous posts, this is a bi-partisn mess up. Bill Clinton and his then Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin ( former Wall Street Bankster)assisted the passage of the Financial Services Modernization Act and Gramm,Leach, Blilly.

These two legislative abominations were the primary pieces of law that legalized the fraudulent dealings engaged in by the Wall Street boyz these past 8 years or so that have led to this crisis. Of course the Republican rubber stamp congress and Senate approved these perverse laws, but, like spectators watching a gang rape of some helpless maid ("We the People")on a pool table, the Democratic leadership cheered them on.

Nader/Gonzalez

or

McKinney/Clemente

in 08
Poet

coyotebreath--Since you insist

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_6143352http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2006/04/sca...

http://ca.rand.org/stats/economics/foreclose.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/05/17/BUVR10MDDO.DTL

http://www.chapa.org/?q=foreclosure_view_details/22

http://www.socialism.com/fsarticles/vol28no4/28405foreclosures.html

http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2000/0100bradley.html

http://www.propertycrossroads.com/foreclosure-scams-prey-on-the-elderly/

OI hope they work. If not, well, you'll just have to buy me a new pc. LOL

You should have proof-read your histogram. It shows the Democrats controlling the White House during the G.W. Bush years.

And at work today,,,,,

Even the Republicans were bashing Palin!

Can you say Loserrrrrr!!!!!???

Coffeelover

Too much to say - so little time.
Do You hear those mantra like repetitions on behalf of the republicon 'change' couple? The choir that tells the mentally most challenged prospective voters that the republicon party of mcpain & callin' has nothing to do with bush's repubs and that we all should get over the biggest f-up in the history of human mankind and move on with the oddest couple ever to appear on the political landscape.
Whereas mcpain is just pathetic, callin is so hypocritic there is only one word left to use. Blasphemy. Discussing this blasphemy a friend told me to imagine a guy that was married and had beaten his wife to death. When he re-marries and his new wife finds out about his past he then responds: 'That's the past. I have nothing to do with this any more. Let's just focus on the future.'
My take on all this is the following: The constitution has been discarded in 2000, when the PNAC took over the country after eight years of preparations. You will find out that mcpain & callin' are decoys, whereas the 'female' part of the laurel and hardy impostors will enable the repiglicons to rig
the upcoming 'american idol' style elections as they did twice before, only to tell the world:
'Well did You not see how excited the american people were about callin'? The voters wanted change and they got it.' That's the more civilized version.
George Noori had a caller last night that came up with this 'vision' (very close to mine): Bush will declare the state of emergency based on the economic crash that will occur in december. Whatever You voted for will be obsolete, even a newly elected pres. obama will see the white shambles only from the outside. Who in this by god abandoned world will stop this? Karma will. Karma is going to get all those weak minded earthlings. Real mushrooms will grow out of the repuplicons heads, as You can witness with other species on the planet. Skip the United in the States of America, the game is over. The powers in charge are certainly not a few million voters. It is called military industrial complex and all I can say is: Good Luck in ridding Yourself of those guys. Others tried before.

Forget about elections - the only vote You have is at the register

Glenn, Glenn, Glenn ! What the fuck has gotten over you man ? You correctly nailed both parties in the past and now you want to tell us that a Democrat in the White House and Congress controlled by more Democrats will change much? Most of the party is still stuck with the old guards who will see to it that nothing changes for the better and will even work with the GOP to make it so. Bill Clinton was barely lucky to get the Democrats to reform the Reagan tax cuts for the wealthy elite. Do you really expect today's Democrats to do any better? And what about Obama's recent flip flop to postpone repealing Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy elite? What the fuck is the matter with this author? And he was doing great nailing both parties !

Hypothetically, if the Democrats had lost Congress in 2006, because people decided to back third party candidates instead, would anything have been different?

Sorry, but I have to conclude , that the people who are "so upset" are just singing the middle class liberal well-intentioned blues.

And dont scream at me with caps and shit. There is no cal for it.

I only asking you to stand up for the principles you claim to hold dear.

Have ya heard the latest from the GOPathologicals? Now they're blaming the subprime meltdown on all those poor people and them minorities who couldn't afford a house but went ahead and tricked all those honest, upstanding real estate brokers and loan officers into selling them one anyway.

"For decades... there has been bipartisan agreement to use government power to expand homeownership to people who had been shut out for economic reasons or, sometimes, because of racial and ethnic discrimination... But it led to tremendous pressure on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — who in turn pressured banks and other lenders — to extend mortgages to people who were borrowing over their heads." Krauthammer, National Review.

See - if it weren't for all that pressure from both poor people and those who've suffered from racial and ethnic discrimination, the "financial services industry" would have never, ever even considered extending mortages to people who were borrowing over their heads. They were forced to do it, you see. Because of all that pressure. From the poor people. And minorities.

Search about - Dobbs, Coulter, the WSJ, FOX and the rest of the GOPropaganda machine - yes, even McCain - are doing their best to switch the blame from the uber-greed-a-holic bank robbers and their Congressional enablers and abettors to the all that pressure from irresponsible poor people and minorities who were demanding homes they couldn't afford.

Another new level of pathetic.

Wait a minute. How many people frequent this site?

What if everyone on this site (and other "progressive" blogs, if there are any--not including the people who run this one--but, they are letting me write this!)
;what if we/they all just decided that we were not goin to take this shit anymore. That we were ALL going to vote for a single third party candidate?

Think about it. I dont know how many people blog here, but--well, does anyone else? Very few people here seem happy with the status quo. Why dont we change it??

I'd like to paraphrase/repeat a comment already made by redgreen.

Greenwald wrote: "we have lived for the last eight years under virtually absolute GOP rule;"

What does "virtually absolute" mean? Is this meant to include when the Democrats act like the GOP? If Greenwald can change the colors on the graph, then he should change this to "six years".

Greenwald: "Democrats, who -- while hardly covering themselves with glory -- haven't had any meaningful power in this country for as long as one can remember."

This is a bizarre statement, especially from Greenwald. I understand why Bush has decided to ignore his co-equal branch of government. But why would Greenwald assert that control of Congress doesn't represent meaningful power? It's reminds me of when Democrats claimed to have no power under Clinton because of Congressional Republicans. So if Democrats have no power when they control the Presidency, or when they control the Congress, is the logic is Democrats have no power unless they control everything? Or would they still be powerless?

Pardon me if I sound like a one issue voter, but I decided on March 20, 2003 to vote against the neocons until they are banished from Washington forever.

The neocons are a cancer that has taken over the Republican Party and then the White House. The cancer reached its zenith at the success of the Iraqi invasion and Rick Santorum's (and others) campaign to cleanse the party of remaining moderates such as Arlen Spector.

The list of economic victims grows longer each month, and is probably about to include me, but that is secondary to getting our country and its values back from the cynical, lying neofascists now in the White House, and that includes their nominated replacement front man.

Obama isn't perfect, but I'm not taking any chances with my vote.

I like Greenwald's writing usually, but this Brooks stuff seems like just an appeal to the masses to see a part of the picture they usually don't pay attention to. It isn't new info its more reiteration with a reference to common thought of 'who wears a Brooks Brothers suit.' What's the difference between this and 'college boy?' Man, I don't know...But I am not convinced and I am not going to change my angry disbelief into a valid Democratic or Republican whore vote.

The nice thing about anger is that it is resolvable without hate and cynical aftertaste.

May Allah bless all of you.:)

perhaps incompetence should be clarified. bush/cheney are incompetent leaders, i.e. of the american people (we'll exclude the morons with their w'04 stickers that they have now replaced with mccain/pain-in stickers). their failures at any and every attempt to display leadership qualities makes them incompetent. other than that, as big mac and rich m state, they've been brilliant with their plan. first, put an idiotic asshole with an ever present smirk on his face in the #1 seat. backstage, put the plans in motion, just keep the idiot up front. sadly, they've taken american pride and turned it into american embarrassment. bush's smirk and swagger should have been disassembled way back when he called himself the governor of texas. even more sadly, this group of competently incompetent leaders have just milked us out of 700 very big ones. it gets sadder. these sorry motherfuckers have until inauguration day to complete their competency test.

Color the top bar RED!

Anyone who can't see a difference between Democrats and Republicans is a Difference Denier---a DD. You blend the parties together, use blanket statements and misrepresentations to deny any difference in Democratic or Republican philosophy or method of governance. You label anyone who spells out the differences, and sees a clear reason to vote for Obama over McPalin, a DPA. It's cynical.

Even Noam Chomsky sees differences. Here's a quote from him, discussing the lack of a post cold-war rational for continuing massive Pentagon spending, and how biotechnology (the next great boom) cannot fit under the Pentagon aegis:

"There are differences between the two political parties about what should be done. The Reagan-Bush types, who are more fanatically ideological, have their heads in the sand about it to some extent. They are a bit more dogmatic. The Clinton people are more upfront about these needs. That's one of the main reasons why Clinton had substantial business support."

And that's Clinton, who's a DLC/republican lite. Obama's to the left of Clinton!

So I guess Chomsky's a DPA too.

sham·ble /ˈʃæmbəl/ [sham-buhl] –noun

1. shambles, (used with a singular or plural verb)

a. a slaughterhouse.
b. any place of carnage.
c. any scene of destruction: to turn cities into shambles.
d. any scene, place, or thing in disorder: Her desk is a shambles.

2. British Dialect. a butcher's shop or stall.

[Origin: bef. 900; ME shamel, OE sc(e)amel stool, table < LL scamellum, L scamillum, dim. of L scamnum bench; cf. G Schemel]
___________________________________________________

Well, I'll be damned! You learn something new every day.

A shambles is a slaughterhouse . . .

I didn't know that. I always associated the word "shambles" with, for example, a small town cut down to toothpicks by a tornado but with the possibility of being rebuilt and improved. But since it's a slaughterhouse, then how much more apt can you be? When is the slaughter we visit upon others going to be visited upon us . . . and by our own hand?

Um - do I need a can of red spay-paint for the top bar in that graph? Or have I had too many beers today?

What "debate"? A debate would have included someone that didn't share the Dim/Pug framework of "support for the troops" (warmongering) and support for bailing out the Wall Street fat cats. Now that would have been a debate. Which of the two parties that are pro Big Business, pro war, and pro curbing civil rights amd pro tranfer-of-wealth-upwards "won" is irrevelant. In the big scheme of things a vote for the either is basically a vote for the SAME.

Those that do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it. Vote 3rd party.

FYI, on the original article at Salon.com, Glenn responded to feedback about the graphic by noting that he had indeed screwed up the colors, and corrected it.

Apparently CD imported the uncorrected graphic.

AS far as the article itself, it's a question of perspective. Glenn is responding to ludicrous GOP claims that the Dems, and not the Republicans, are responsible for setting up the financial crisis.

Certainly the criminal maladministration and its partisan supporters have been in the driver's seat for the past eight years, and have done everything possible to undermine and destroy the vestiges of the Compassionate state, and the civil liberties enshrined in the Constitution that facilitate bottom-up political action.

And it's fair enough to credit Democrats for feebly and ineffectually offering marginally more enlightened legislation that would have had a moderately more salutary effect on the economy and the lives of working Amerika-- how's THAT for a left-handed compliment, aka damning with faint praise?

But when one takes a step back, as I never get tired of noting, it is obviously the duopoly itself, the sum that is greater than its parts, which has hijacked the polity and sustained the Amerikan Empire through its present decadent phase. In that larger sense, the Democrats are equal partners in destroying the Compassionate State that began to emerge in the last century, and the constitutional republic envisioned and designed by the Founders.

In sum, Americans hate the way the country has been ruled,
-And where has the "opposition party" been?

The overarching reality of the country is that we've lived under unchallenged Republican rule and the country has virtually collapsed on every level.
-who can argue the Dims haven't been complicit?

DUDE WHERE IS MY IMPEACHMENT?

Sioux Rose

GIN: I was thinking the EXACT same thing: use the polls to present the ILLUSION that it's a close race, and then a little computer tweak here and there (to voting machines) does the trick. Not that Obama has shown real muscle or moral courage, but these neocon Christian theocrats want to OWN my body/sexuality alone with my bank account, while making war in the name of Jesus. Enough is a f--king enough!

I think the David Brookses are just paving the way for the GOP to steal another election. They want everyone to believe that "regular Americans" are simple-minded etc. and will love McCain/Palin to explain their wins in crucial districts. The "others" did it.

And basically only 113 years after the last of the Native Tribes were murdered off with the remaining rounded up & put on Reservations. Caesar's world not all it seems to be upon the earth?

One thing that ticks me off about Democrats and left/liberal commentators is the issue of competence. They tell us that Bush and his gang are incompetent and Lord knows that's true...if competence is measured by how well they serve the vast majority of Americans.
The Bush administration has been very competent at doing what they really wanted to do: Loot the Treasury, Shread the Constitution, Invade Foreign Countries, Enrich Their Friends, etc, etc.
What we are seeing now is not a failure of competence. It is a failure of Ideology...conservative ideology which has been ascendant in this country since the Carter Administration (yes,Carter...should we really call Carter and Clinton Progressives?).
It's the ideology that JK Galbraith characterized as an "...exercise in Moral Philosophy that seeks ever more justifications for Greed and Selfishness."
Inasmuch as Conservatism presents itself as a way to benefit all people, to unleash creativity and entrpeneurism and cause the "rising tide to lift all the boats" it is incompetent because it really can't do those things.
It is really a Fraud. It needs to be exposed as such. It's the Ideology, Stupid!

I am somewhat optimistic in that I believe that the United States (the people) will eventually pull itself/themselves out of this mess. The question I ask myself is; what comes next? The United States appears to be under going a transition phase (from/to) but exactly where the nation is headed after this phase is complete I have no idea. I wish you all good luck.