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Obama's Border Plan Looks Similar to Bush's
PHOENIX -- President Barack Obama's plan to send as many as 1,200 National Guard troops to the US-Mexico border appears to be a scaled-down version of the border security approach championed by his predecessor.
A US Border Patrol agent stands near the border fence between the United States and Mexico on May 2 in Nogales, Arizona. US President Barack Obama is to send up to 1,200 more troops to the joint border with Mexico and ask for 500 million dollars in extra funds to battle drug-trafficking, a US official said Tuesday. (AFP/Getty Images/File/John Moore) The 6,000 troops who were sent by President George W. Bush to the border from June 2006 to July 2008 were generally credited within law enforcement circles as having helped improve border security, but restrictions placed on the soldiers were denounced by advocates for tougher enforcement who are now leveling similar objections at Obama's plan.
Some law enforcement officials along the border said they worry that Obama will repeat Bush's mistake by limiting the troops to support roles, such as conducting surveillance and installing lighting, rather than letting them make arrests and confront smugglers. They also believe the scale of the force - one-fifth of the size of the one sent by Bush - is too small to make a difference along the length of the 2,000-mile border.
Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever, whose jurisdiction includes about 80 miles of the Arizona-Mexico border, said 1,200 soldiers might make a difference in a smaller portion of the border. "But if you spread it across the border, it's like spitting into the wind," Dever said.
Under the Obama plan, the troops will work on intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance support, analysis and training, and support efforts to block drug trafficking. They will temporarily supplement border patrol agents until Customs and Border Protection can recruit and train additional officers and agents to serve on the border. Obama also will request $500 million for border protection and law enforcement activities.
Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard, a Democrat who has prosecuted rings of drug and immigrant smugglers, said the planned deployment was a good first step, but believes that the president's plan should evolve to include more troops and more authority for the soldiers.
"I'll take what we can get," Goddard said. "Again, I don't think this is the final response."
The Mexican government issued a statement saying it hoped the troops would be used to fight drug cartels and not enforce immigration laws. Mexico has traditionally objected to the use of the military to control illegal immigration.
When Bush sent the National Guard to the border, the troops performed support duties that tie up immigration agents, who then had more time to arrest illegal immigrants.
The troops under the Bush deployment didn't perform significant law enforcement duties. They installed vehicle barriers, operated remote cameras, repaired vehicles, worked as radio dispatchers and performed other duties. Troops who manned mobile observation towers had used binoculars to search for and report border breaches.
The effect of the troops was felt by the smugglers and would-be border-crossers during 2006 in Palomas, Mexico, a smuggling hub south of the village of Columbus, N.M., where a buildup of border agents, surveillance cameras, vehicle barriers and troops were credited with reducing smuggling traffic.
Vendors in Palomas reported a significant drop in the number of backpacks they sold to border-crossers for carrying their food, water and clothing in during their walk into the United States. "There are not many people because of the soldiers that were put on the border," vendor Elisco Hernandez Gonzalez told The Associated Press two months after the Guard was sent to the border.
Republican state Sen. Russell Pearce of Arizona, the author of the state's new immigration law, said he fears Obama will repeat Bush's mistake in not giving the troops the power to confront violent smugglers and other armed criminals along the border.
Pearce was disturbed by an incident in 2007 where National Guard troops backed off and called in federal agents as gunmen approached their post near the Arizona-Mexico border.
While supporters of the decision said the Guard members did as they were supposed to, Pearce questioned the point of having troops on the border if they can't confront such dangers. "It was a welcome-wagon role last time," Pearce said. "They weren't allowed to do anything."
T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, a union representing 17,000 agents, said he doesn't see the broad outlines of the Obama plan as a solution to border violence.
"People shouldn't be surprised if the violence continues," Bonner said. "They shouldn't expect that the announcement of up to 1,200 National Guard members will send a shock wave of fear in the cartels and that they will start playing nice."
Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu, a major in the Arizona Army National Guard who served as a commander in Yuma, Ariz., during the 2006 deployment, said Obama's plan is welcome news that will help confront border security weaknesses, but it doesn't go far enough.
Babeu, who wasn't speaking on behalf of the National Guard, said the visible presence of armed soldiers is an effective deterrent for illegal immigration. "They're not given law enforcement authority, but the fact that they're there, keeping watch, 24/7, has proven to be the most effective solution for border security," Babeu said.
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41 Comments so far
Show AllThere is no plan except to keep the flow of cheap labor coming.
The states will have to solve this unless the Fedral government starts enforcing the law. And the states will do it.
Help me understand.
The fact that people from Mexico are immigrating, legally and illegally, to the United States to find work (often low paying jobs that most U.S. citizens wouldn't bend over to perform) suggests that Mexico's economic development stinks or is "gamed for the rich".
It would seem the better solution to the issue of illegal immigration into the U.S. would be the creation of a fair and equitable economic opportunities in Mexico.
For one, we should end NAFTA, which severly exacerbated Mexico's economic problems at the expense of the peasants and the poor.
Joe
Wandering Wolverine
"to the United States to find work (often low paying jobs that most U.S. citizens wouldn't bend over to perform"
To begin with, this is a false statement. Its never been true, its simply a slogan put forth for years by the cheap labor camp. Ask the next time anyone says this, which jobs they are referring to. You will not get an answer because there is not one industry or job field in which its true.
"Mexico's economic development stinks or is "gamed for the rich"."
Absolutely. Their rich make our rich look like charity workers.
Think of the argumment put forth that NAFTA is responsible for much of this...Canada is part of NAFTA, but we don't have Canadians piling into the US. But we should end NAFTA because it benefits the citizens of none of the countries involved.
The discussion is always about the US and our side of this problem. I'd suggest we do look at Mexico that has immigration laws that make ours look like Sunday school rules, that is violating human rights of the immigrants passing thru trying to get to the US, that retains most of the money for the elite.
"It would seem the better solution to the issue of illegal immigration into the U.S. would be the creation of a fair and equitable economic opportunities in Mexico."
Absolutely. But is that not Mexico's responsibility? Are not their citizens their responsibility? When did Mexico become the responsibility of the US other than as a neighbor that we would help if we could?
"to the United States to find work (often low paying jobs that most U.S. citizens wouldn't bend over to perform"
You are absolutely correct. This is propaganda from agribusiness and the entities that make their money from illegal aliens.
People look at the jobs that illegals take and by justifying their presence here, they give a pass to the wages being paid by the employer. Well why should they pay more when there is an unending supply of what amounts to slave labor? If I owned a restaurant I wouldn't pay minimum wage for dishwashers and prep people or janitors. Why would I? I can get someone to do the job for cheaper and if you don't do it some one else will... as long as that someone can't get a real job in a company that checks ID.
This is a depressed supply curve. No matter what I pay, someone is going to do the work because there is no scarcity of labor and what is not scarce is not valuable.
If on the other hand, I had a job that needed to be done, like janitorial to keep my restaurant open, and I had a limited number of applicants, then I would have to pay more simply because no one WOULD do it for less.
The situation of illegal aliens taking jobs that pay badly is not because the jobs pay badly, it is because they are illegal and the employers can get away with paying badly.
Where I live, we are semi-agricultural. When I grew up all the ag jobs except the hard core land prep was done by high-school students after school and in the summer. There were part time jobs for local kids and locals to do things that now are all done by illegals. Houses were framed and built by local builders, but now a contractor can pay someone half or less what a framer used to make to build the house. It isn't that the job doesn't pay, it is that the builder doesn't HAVE TO PAY any longer.
If you have a society where the economy is a balance between labor and producers then the laborers can't charge too much or they put the producers out of business and the producers have to pay enough in wages to attract and keep workers. If you allow an unlimited supply of labor then the price for labor plummets.
We have a lot to do to fix the problem, but we have to fix our borders and get rid of our surplus labor to save those jobs for our laborers. At the same time we need to get rid of NAFTA and CAFTA and make sure that people south of the border can survive and thrive without coming here.
Closing the border is part of that and a very positive step for labor regardless of what Monsanto and the Ag-business people tell you.
Well said.
The reports as to how the transitory migrants coming thru Mexico has been well know for years and is even more documented now. They suffer kidnappings for ransom, robbery, and rape. Mexico's National Human Rights Commission reports that nearly 10,000 were abducted over six months in 2009. Almost 50 percent of victims said that public officials were involved in their kidnapping. _Amnesty estimates that six out of 10 migrant women and girls experience sexual violence.
"How labor gets treated in Mexico and how it gets treated inside the US is now quite intermeshed together."
I'd say its better here. Workers across the board have some alternative. But the Transnationals know no boundries and in essense, I think you are right. Because they abuse our workers just as much as they do the cheap labor they bring in up to a point. The cheap labor is abused and exploited far more for the obvious reasons and opportunities.
Obama's entire maladministration looks similar to Bush's
Very glad you are still with us after all the flagging that was going on!
"The real violence is not in Arizona as the anti-immigrant folk would have you believe it is, but in Mexico itself. The US has militarized not only The Border this side, but the other side, too"
Opposing illegal immigratiojn does not mean they are anti-immigrant . Thats cheap labor talk.
Our border isn't militarized. If it were it would be shut tight. We simply have a few guardsmen on the border. 1200! Whoo-Whee!!!
But, you are certainly correct that most of the violence is on the other side of the border. Thousands killed over the last year. But it has begun to spill over.
"despite Calderon always yapping about how ALL those arms come from inside the US form private sales. Not true. Some of the arms actually come from the Mexican military"
Quite true. It seems they are getting arms from the military, from our side of ther border and from all over the world. Wouldn't be surprised if units of the Mexican military were working for the Cartels anyway. They bought some of our border agents, so why not.
Calderon is simply trying to deflect attention to what they are doing in Mexico to these illegals and who is getting all the money.
The AFL-CIO has shown themselves to be pro illegal immigration in working with business and replacing American workers with illegal workers as members as policy. Could you expand on what you know about "the AFL-CIO membership work force of La Migra.."
"T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, a union representing 17,000 agents, said he doesn't see the broad outlines of the Obama plan as a solution to border violence"
Because its no different than Bush's plan.
"Bonner said. "They shouldn't expect that the announcement of up to 1,200 National Guard members will send a shock wave of fear in the cartels and that they will start playing nice."
I would expect they are laughing their hind ends off.
We certainly agree the War on Drugs is a joke. But if we don't stop the illegal crossing, it will indeed expand and escalate. Considering what we do know about the Cartels presense in every major city, it may be too late in any case.
"Militarizing immigration control and militarizing the 'Drug War' are two separate things yet they always seem to merge themselves together, too. Trafficking networks for drugs were built upon the network of trafficking networks in prostitution and that in trafficking of labor, too."
I think thats certainly true. Though I've got to admit when I saw young girls at a factory just 35 miles from our home, that had been forced to stay on the factory property, abused (used) by the guys in charge, the men and boy's that had been there over a year and had less than a hundred dollars average apiece the deputies told me later...
Frankly. I'd turn the Marines loose on these human traffikers in a heartbeat. These people are sub-human.
Thanks for the union thoughts.
In case one has not figured it out, Obama is Bush's meat puppet.
There is no there, there. Obama is a empty suit.
This latest stunt only prove he is a tool and shill of the ruling elite, again.
Good Grief.
An empty suit with pockets full of corporate cash.
Obama's Patriot Act looks like Bush's Patriot Act. Obama's Wars look like Bush's Wars, and so on and so on. Obama is following Bush's steps, but that should be no surprise. Obama and Bush and their political parties are funded by the same corporations.
I've lived in Sheriff Bobo's county for fifty years and I can't say things have changed much. There's a standing wave of paranoia about illegal immigration, a standing wave of government determination to put the kibosh on it, a standing wave of dope smugglers and a standing wave of military sounding "operations" to scuttle the law of supply and demand. A ounce of Mexican grass cost ten bucks in 1960 and is up to sixty bucks today, about the same rate of inflation as Budweiser. A lot of our local tradesmen have no "papers." They do good work and frequently get paid more than they ask for.
The Anglo establishment in Phoenix is busy again whomping up a problem where not much of a problem exists. Patterns of employment and the flow of money are organic and centuries old. For Mexicans it's always been hard times. They just do what they have to do and they haven't got time to be afraid of formaldehyde-soaked zombies like John McCain or fat pricks like Joe Arpaio.
It's business as usual down here. Arizona and California publicly despise Mexicans, but generously decline to legalize and tax marijuana and cocaine and thereby effectively pump buckets of money into the Mexican economy. God knows they can use it. The border town murders, almost always between narcotraficantes, are painful to see. They are competing for our business after all, and when business is brisk the death rate goes up with it. An occasional Federale, the victim of one or another US mandated "crackdown," gets caught in the crossfire.
The gated community bluehairs who are hollering their heads off because they don't feel safe and secure enough are also a standing wave. It would be unnatural if people like that weren't upset, It's really old age and death that terrifies them, but if they want to blame it on Mexico why should I have a problem with that?
Worry about the Gulf of Mexico. Don't worry about sunny Arizona. Everything's fine down here.
Looks like the effect is hitting NM, also. There's a whole bunch of conservatives that are now in power or about to assume power based mainly on immigration issues.
City council of ABQ just enacted almost the same law, city-wide. In a lifetime of living here I've never seen so mush diviseness. We pretty much used to tolerate one another.
Obama like Bush wants to keep the cheap labor flowing and lock in the support of latinos and the corporations. He couldn't care less about the people living on the border just like he couldn't care less about the people in the gulf suffering the effects of the gusher. He will only act concerned because his image people will tell him he must at least try and show some empathy.
I'm afraid you may be right.
How many machine guns must we sell to the drug lords to pay for 1200 guardsmen?
Sophisticated weaponry is not coming from the US. It comes up thru Central America. Why would a drug lord want a semi-auto AR-15 when he can get a fully auto AK-47 from Venezuela?
Any guns from the US are only what you and I could buy.
You're laughing! Feels good doesn't it. I'm sure that will be short-lived.
Have a good day, Sunshine.
So what are they smuggling? The DEA estimates 75% of it is marijuana. More people have died this year in Mexico than Afghanistan to stop people from smoking pot. Our drug laws have spawned a ruthless crime culture, both here and abroad.
These laws constitute a business plan for organized crime.
President Bush, aka Obama, has decided to fight fire with gasoline. gun em down at the border. Despite the lunatic rantings of the Dems and GOP, we are not all going to become pot heads if the stuff is legalized. If you have ever seen a pie graph illustrating abuse in the US you will see that pot, cocaine, and heroin together are s small sliver, while prescription drugs and alcohol are, by far, the biggest problem.
In much of the US you can grow much of your own produce even in an urban environment. I have friends who eat delicious fresh salads grown in a window box. And if we would quit poisoning the weeds and mowing the lawns we could put Safeway out of business. I sell organic produce in rainy Western Washington. You would be amazed how many educated adults don't know potatoes grow under ground.
Pay farm workers a living wage with full benefits. Yes, it would raise the price of veggies; you might buy ten dollars worth of seeds and eat better. First you need to blow up the TV, put your cell phone, ipad, etc, in a closet, lock the door, and take a look around. The unedited world is pretty amazing. Whats left of it.
I think it is important to treat all the neighbours the same way so please put up a fence on the northern border also and a phalanx of several thousand troops should be able to curtail that damn oil that seems to migrate through those pipelines from Canada into the US. Do you know how addictive oil can become? Some countries absolutely demand it on a regular basis and once you're hooked you've had it. I blame the Canadians for having such addictive substances under their land. You would think they would know better. The US should just march in there and confiscate it all. It's much too dangerous to leave in the hands of the lesser folk who dwell in the hinterlands of North America.
Mexico has a higher GINI then the USA.
Mexico has a lower Tax Burden then the USA.
The majority of Countries with GINIS lower then the USA have higher tax burdens.
Yet some people believe that by lowering taxes in the USA (So they are closer to Mexicos) and by helping to make the Rich richer (So the GINI More like Mexicos and the wealth trickles down as the money invested in jobs) the United States would be better off.
Does Mexico have a spending problem, or a wealth distribution problem?
Wealth doesn't trickle down. If you don't get it on the way up, it turns into Maybachs and private kingdoms.
"Does Mexico have a spending problem, or a wealth distribution problem"
They have a class problem. They have no middle class to speak of.
We shall turn you into a Socialist yet.
A bit of socialism never hurt anyone. :)
Then we have progress! Fellow CD readers , your collective efforts are not in vain!
You mean your 13 trillion dollar debt not enough?
How many Greeks try to sneak into the US for work?
Well my friend thanks to the efforts of our government and business elites we are certainly well on the way. And Mr. Obama is working overtime to achieve it.
I would call the middle class in Mexico the same as the upper 95 to 99 per cent here.
A lot more upper than middle.
But I could be wrong! I know, I know, its almost inconcieveable, but true.
Mr Coke, the Shower Posse. LOL
That will look great on your activist resume.....