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TechnoratiObama Administration Backs Bush White House on Cheney Interview
WASHINGTON - When it comes to the Bush White House's decision to withhold from the public Dick Cheney's interview with FBI agents investigating the CIA leak case, the Obama administration says its predecessor did the right thing. And it's fighting hard to do the same.
On Wednesday night, in another move that puts the administration on the side of secrecy over openness, Obama's Justice Department filed a memo supporting its ongoing opposition to a lawsuit requesting the release of the Cheney interview. This memo included a declaration from Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who said that if the Cheney interview is made public it could cause public officials in the future to not cooperate with criminal investigations.
Breuer, who heads the department's criminal division, noted:
As a general matter, the non-public nature of law enforcement interviews can be a significant factor in securing the voluntary cooperation of witnesses. Indeed, it is not uncommon for prosecutors and law enforcement investigators to inform witnesses that, subject to applicable statutes, regulations and rules, they will attempt to maintain the confidentiality of information provided. A non-public interview can be particularly important in gaining the cooperation of senior-level White House officials given the public role of such witnesses, the sensitive nature of the subject matters that may be discussed, the potential politicization of these sensitive issues, and the possibility that whatever matter is being investigated ultimately may not warrant any law enforcement action.
In other words, top government officials may only cooperate with a criminal investigation--that is, submit to questioning without being subpoenaed--if they are promised confidentiality. Now what sort of public servant would a person be if he or she refused to help the FBI during an investigation? But Breuer claimed this is a real threat to future investigations:
A White House official's reluctance to submit voluntarily to an interview or share certain information in an interview could hamper an investigation in several important ways....A law enforcement investigation based upon interviews subject to an expectation of confidentiality also benefits from senior officials more inclined to provide identifiable leads, name percipient witnesses, offer credibility assessments of the accuser or other witnesses, and even articulate inferences, insight or hunches that can be invaluable to a law enforcement investigator. A law enforcement investigation could lose these potential benefits if the senior official believes his or her statement will be subject to public disclosure.
But Citizens for Responsiblity and Ethics in Washington, the public interest group that filed the lawsuit seeking the Cheney interview, points out that "Cheney was never promised confidentiality, as Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald confirmed in a letter to Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA), then Chairman of the House Oversight Committee." That is, Cheney participated in the investigation voluntarily without the cloak of confidentiality. If he could do so, why won't future officials? Melanie Sloan, CREW’s executive director, notes, "It is astonishing that a top Department of Justice political appointee is suggesting other high-level appointees are unlikely to cooperate with legitimate law enforcement investigations. What is wrong with this picture?"
The Justice Deparment also filed a declaration noting that because the Cheney interview covered "confidential deliberations" he held with other senior administration officials, its disclosure "could chill future internal discussions about matters of national importance, thus limiting...full, frank, and open discussion." This separate declaration also maintained that the Cheney interview can be withheld because it also covered "confidential communications" he had with Bush. This is the argument that the Bush administration routinely used, such as when it opposed the release of information related to Cheney's energy task force.
By fighting the CREW lawsuit--adopting arguments made by the Bush administration--the Obama administration is demonstrating that even as it encourages greater transparency in government operations, it still is reluctant to yield secrecy that applies to White House actions. For instance, it is still seeking to block the release of White House visitors logs. Cheney, no doubt, is appreciative.
83 Comments so far
Show AllI still believe pappa Bush/Chaney/Rice, Wall street and their CIA buddies, have aways been in charge. Bush Jr. was the puppet to throw rocks at. Obama is playing the puppet game as well, and afraid to dare disobey, and will go as far as the gang allows him to.
here's a suggestion, cynical. adjust your setting to flat list-expanded. then adjust the second setting, that would be date - newest first.
it might help you understand the situation a bit more than your apparent confusion is currently allowing.
Its bad enough that your vote doesn't count in the Presidential election, then to see that the electoral college vote doesn't count either. so why bother to vote at all..I don't plan on voting ever again. Demoncracy???Its phony as the copuntry's we are fighting against, and critizing.Bush & cheney should have been prosicuted a long time ago as well as his cronys. anyone that holds office and doesn't "SUPPORT THE US CONSTITUTION " should be gone..
this won't count either , who cares what my opinion is I'm gone..good bye,
Bring America Back !!!!...........It is fascinating to observe just how many of the Neocon Culture of Corruption got their power thru the Department of Justice !
***They are in complete violation of their Oaths of Office, to preserve, protect and defend the US Constitution.
***Instead, they fall into lockstep and become lackey Policemen for the King in Power !!! Their misplaced devotion is to the King George or the King Barak and to hell
with our Nation--and we middle Americans who populate it.
***Their DOJ rulings, positions, and self-preserving rhetoric are unrational, unconstitutional, and untenable. ! Obama's Holder is no better than Bush's Ashcroft. There was Giuliani, Spitzer, Fitzgerald., and a host of other Puppets of their Kings.
Just like the FBI, the entire DOJ is a worthless department of Government, and they both need to be reduced in size to where they are just a fingerprint processing factory.
Obama is a one-term pony, and we need to get a strong Progressive to push out in front of the 2012 Pack.
Kucinich anyone ????
A short letter to America---from one of your "native born prisoners of war".............
All of these comments seem to be the heart felt emotions of people who are fed up with the status quo, want change, but do not seem to know how to define 'change'.
America has never been anything but a Plutocratic Oligarchy and will remain that way until 'the people' either give up the idea of a 'democracy'---or make the changes necessary to finally have a 'democracy'.
The only way to eliminate the Plutocratic Oligarchy is to eliminate the 'profit' for the participants. Take the money out of the 'high office holders realm' and the people who run for high office will be there under the proper motivations, not the influence of the people with money who want the politics to be their choices not the peoples.
Another problem is the lack of accountability. People vote for the candidate of their choice, believing that the next election will serve as a control measure--i.e. term limitations, but after the election they have no control over the actions of their candidate in the period between elections. This is illogical since all 'other' federal employees, including the military members, have regularly scheduled 'fitness reports'. If an employee fails two of these within a specific time period they are 'terminated for cause'-------and someone who is serious about the job is found to replace the one who wasn't.
If your high officials even appear to participate in criminal behavior, then they should be held in the highest accountability; one can reasonably expect criminal behavior from a 'criminal' but if it is exhibited by the elected officials it should have a higher significance and treated as such. Presently America has some of the most serious international criminals in history, roaming freely and at will, and often receiving large sums of money for public appearances----and speeches. This is insanity.
The primary purpose for observing the mistakes one makes is to prevent the repetition. America has made it the National Theme/Mantra to repeat the same mistakes---and it seems as though the national pride is measured by the number of times the same mistake can be repeated.
There is no 'separation of church and state', and the "Religious Right" being based in and from tax exempt organizations has played a major role in the repetition of many of the mistakes that has made the USA into the rogue nation it is now known as. And feared as.
Your lack of responsibility for your actions is a result of your arrogance.
This alone has caused the world to fear the USA more than any other super power in history. You do not keep your treaties, you lie, you steal, you turn on your fiends and allies with ease and a total lack of conscience.
You will make war based on lies and deception, shed 'oceans' of inncent blood in the process, and then go to insane lengths of logic to justify it; or blame the victim.
On an individual level, most Americans are decent people (contrary to my past rhetorical remarks), but as a "nation" they seem to 'worship' mediocrity and choose the sleaziest people imaginable for their 'heroes', their elected officials, their movie and music 'stars', their TV evangelists, even their sports 'heroes'. The will make these people fabulously wealthy with this 'worship', and then, when they are revealed to be the 'sleaze puppies' Americans make excuses for them---or as with M Jackson, take the level of worship "up" another level or two.
America, you are the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, most of it was stolen from the Native Americans, and you have never made a proper reconciliation, in fact you tax them more (63% collectively) than even the largest corporations, many of whom have destroyed your environment.
When I was a child, just fifty years ago, we could still drink the water, and eat the game, and when left alone live as our ancestors had for thousands of years----not any more.
Air and water---even the water UNDER ground is polluted, in many cases deathly polluted.
These are just a few of the problems that America has largely brought upon itself.
America the world is watching you. They expect much from you because you have bragged about being the 'best' for so long now, they wait for you to deliver on your claims----they have been disappointed lately.
There still may be some time for America to change--but there cannot be that much time left; for the world cannot possibly tolerate America much longer.
It really is all up to you...........
Good Luck America, you need it.
Cheney's outting of CIA Agent Plame Is Likely TREASON.
Even if there is a legitimate doubt
WHY is Obama Covering Up
for the Bush-Cheney Criminals?
All of the information needs to be made public.
SIGN THE PETITION
Calling for a
congressional select committee
and an independent prosecutor
to prosecute the Bush-Cheney criminals.
http://ANGRYVOTERS.ORG
Over 250,000 have signed
Join them and call yourself a patriot
Humbaba has it right "Aiding and abeting high treason are we now?
What's 'changed' so far?"
The problem is that Pelosi and Reid said they couldn't get anything done unless we gave them TOTAL POWER and the White House.
NOW They have TOTAL POWER and still refuse to
Enforce Federal Laws on Treason and Torture
or defend our Constitution.
Keep pushing them. Embarrass them at public appearances.
SIGN THE PETITION
Calling for a
congressional select committee
and an independent prosecutor
to prosecute the Bush-Cheney criminals.
http://ANGRYVOTERS.ORG
Over 250,000 have signed
Join them and call yourself a patriot
Is it too early to start impeachment proceedings?
perhaps it is the redundant nature of your posts.
lino July 3rd, 2009 5:32 am.............Please learn to use this forum...who knows to whom you reply?
The Obama admin. is not acting unexpectadly, but the following piece should be read and understood by everyone. This following piece is short, but tells readers more about the real Obama administration than this article about the administration covering Cheney's backside.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14181
I don't know the author of that article, but expect and believe that he's not lying. Afaik (as far as I know), Obama has given only cause to believe what this other article conveys.
Obama has not provided reason to believe otherwise. He might think he did, but nevertheless didn't.
And some jerk at CD cut my CD account; some jack ass did. I had to create a new account because of this jerk, who's evidently a pervert, pro-Israel and anti-Palestine, or something of the sort, because I posted nothing disparaging of CD and never side with the so-called state of Israel-U.S.-Canada-Europe.
And I'll be cut again, after which I'll have to find an anon. online pass-through or -thru, for there are some.
If CD cut my account, then it was not for any legitimate reasons and there was no warning. They ban you as they [please]; no process of justice, no trials, no possible defence, they just ban you as [they] bloody well please, which makes it awfully odd that CD would ever pretend to be for human rights and real justice, to begin with. But CD, like a lot of other Americans, likes to [pretend] an awful lot. Pretentiousness is behind the website and these people think that they can fool most people, but that's only in the USA, where more than half of the population is dumb, anyway. Try to similarly pretend among an educated and intelligent populace, and CD will be absolutely [nothing]; fast. I only use it because it's used by enough other USA'ns. Otherwise, CD would be pointless. There are plenty of other websites providing articles from other sources, though not all allow reader comments.
That's the only real attraction at CD, that it permits reader comments; except when it, the "crew", decides to ban readers from posting, like in my case, and with no explanation whatsoever.
That CD would ban me or anyone without any notice [and] explanation should be a warning to others means that it's not a trustworthy website. It's only "be lucky, don't post what we, in biased terms, don't like, and you can continue posting, but if you so much as begin to write against our personal preferences, then you'll be banned, only you won't know about it beforehand, for we neither forewarn nor explain about our actions, because we're for humnan rights, [ours]; not yours, but ours".
I may well be banned yet again because of this post, but know that CD is clearly not [honest].
Either this, or some virus, say, was inserted without CD maintainers knowing about this. I read, briefly, and only some months back, that hackers have the ability to insert virses, etc, without website maintainers knowing about this.
But, I suspect that my suspension is deliberate. It's most likely intentional; only, these so-called huamn-rights supporters never explain their actions ... against human rights. So, to hell with human rights; I'll treat them as ... how ever the f*ck I please, too; but don't let me know that anyone I ever reach out to help is of CD, for I'll let the s.o.b. receive what he or she is about to receive if I didn't intervene. No, I don't forget.
I'll only respect human rights so long as they are respected, and when they are not respected and should be, then I get pissed off, say.
A lot of people, like HRW, f.e., pretend to be for human rights, but aren't, or are, but only in half-assed terms. HRW is, at best, half-assed. But HRW is not alone. Amnesty Intl is also often wrong, f.e.
USAID? Forget about it. It's part of the government of the USA, anyway. Peace Corps? We've plenty of reports that tell us that while volunteers were truthful, etcetera, the PC was not really used for good purposes; CIA-manipulation, etcetera.
Can we trust anything that comes from the government? Not really.
glad you are back Mike,
I didn't know you were cancelled.
We all live in a cyber-submarine a cyber submarine
they are screwin with my email too!
Mike Corbeil July 3rd, 2009 4:47 am...........Same thing happened to me on CD...four times now...best I can tell is because I mention 9/11 too much. No doubt CD is not a truly open forum like ICH. Just proves that just about ANYONE can be bought. You have my sympathy.
Are you guys getting emails when you lose your accts? I'm often obnoxious on here, and have written a couple of strong emails to CD staf, and I've never been banned or even warned. One thing you might consider--if you don't know the source of your acct problems--is that it's a) some fluky accident, or b) possibly your isp. I do know some peoples' ISP's can harass them from time to time if they don't like where they traffic.
Just a thought.
Skip_Townes July 3rd, 2009 9:11 am..It's a possibility, but in my case I doubt it. The rejection comes directly from the CD site in various ways. I AM in n.central Florida...a VERY conservative, Evangelical area. Windstream, my ISP does filter searches...so obvious as to be ludicrous. They have the worse, most monitored search engine I have ever experienced. But I do not believe they are filtering CD...if so, why not ICH?
good question. i don't know. have you emailed a note to the staff to ask what the situation is? it might help. the people who run thise site are pretty good eggs, and I just don't see them banning at the drop of a hat without firing some sort of warning shot first. the iran discussions on here were about as fierce an infight as i've ever seen on cd or any other progressive site for that matter, and i don't know of any of us who took some of the strongest positions opposite the staff who got banned or even scolded.
Aiding and abeting high treason are we now? What's 'changed' so far?
Obama is good. He speaks of transparency in government while he points to a blimp in the sky flashing "CHANGE!" then, as you look up he tosses a fist full of sand into your eyes.
George C. Brown - As an Obama voter (and monetary supporter), I am growing increasingly concerned about some (maybe many) of the actions not matching the words, and too much concern over appeasing the obstructionists (read: Repug-
licans, or GOP [Greedy Old Parasites]). But especially on this issue, I have but one word: BOOOOOOOOOO!
Perhaps it is about time to start thinking about revolution!
A good many of the responders have seemingly hit the nail on the head - - it's beginning to look like politics as usual.
We deserve better!
I always though Obama was just "another face". I guess I was right after all.
There's oil in Iraq, there's probably oil in Afghanistan. The sleezes will go for it no matter what.
In America, there's no point in being rich without desperatly poor to lord it over and do you bidding, no matter how disgusting.
I'm abroad and am watching this with great interest. This is the stuff of most European "social revolutions". Better than TV.
Good wishes, and we'll be watching with interest to "pick up the pieces, as it were".
I do wonder, with all your yanks talking tough, how Cheney is still alive. Show biz I guess.
Cheney is still alive because he is now our first true cyborg. Cheney will live forever and continue to poison us with his hate ad infinitum. Will you be our John Connor?
Can you smell it. This is the clear smell of political corruption coming from the highest places. When you get a whiff of it in the future, you`will know exactly what it is and not being fooled by the pleasant odour of political cover up.
PaulWM
Let's have a real investigation into the events of 9/11 to reveal who the real criminals are. That is something that could really change the world.
http://www.ae911truth.org/
I believe part of the reason they will not pursue warcrimes charges against Cheney/bush is because that will open the door to the TRUTH about 9/11.
It critical for the elites and their puppets that the "Official Version" is never a subject for debate.
I guess that there are many of us who now believe that Obama's job is to protect all those who were involved in 9/11 and the crimes that followed......How many times do you have to hear Obama say, "I do not want to look at the past, I only want to deal with the future........
For the Average American, the bottom 60% of the population, that future is working for minimum wages and being forced to take out some form of health insurance for them and their families....For the other 40%, the future is: baseball games and football games, restaurants, good cars, $300,000 homes, college for their kids, and vacations in Europe.
Soldiers, who feel guilty about killing innocent unarmed civilians, return home and commit suicide......Generals, who feel good about killing 1.5 million Iraqis, come home and become Members of the Boards of Directors of companies like: General Electric, Bechtel, Mobil Exxon, Lockheed Martin Etc......
If a robbery or murder were committed in 1975 and the criminals who committed the crimes were found in 2009, The states and federal government are bound by "Law" to bring those criminals to trial and present the evidence....
Concealing Evidence of a crime is a crime: World Trade Center #7 was brought down with explosives, The Pentagon was not struck by any Boeing 757.....by concealing the video tapes and by destroying the evidence of explosives, that is a crime.
Kidnapping after paying ransom for individuals is a crime......transporting individuals from one country to another without due process is a crime....holding individuals without just cause is a crime.......torturing prisoners is a crime....killing prisoners is a crime......destroying evidence is a crime....
President Obama and his administration are now guilty of "Obstructing Justice".....
The problem is that neither he nor his adminsitration is working for the American People.........The "Rule of Law" no longer exists and The Constitution of the United States has been rendered useless....
"The Power Elite" call us "Conspiracy Theorists"........Look what "They" have accomplished in Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan........over 6 million people killed, over 60,000 American Soldiers dead and millions maimed for life..For What????? The United States was never attacked by any of those nations and none of those nations was ever a threat to attack the United States.....
But, the United States now has a national debt of 12 TRILLION DOLLARS and the People of the United States still do not know why Iraq and Afghanistan were attacked when the money trail for 9/11 led back to the United States, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan...(See Philip Shenon, "The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Commission")....
Shame on "Them" !!!! Shame on us for being so stupid!!!!!
Could not agree more !!!
PRESIDENT OBAMA
What ARE you doing? I voted for you. I cringed and protested through the last three years of the Iraq War. I was hopeful... not so much that you would fix the economy, I think that is in the toilet anyway.
But that you would do what's right. You are there to protect the constitution. You are there as a public servant.
Cheney and Bush shoved their oversized egos down the throats of the whole world. Nooooowwwww, they are going to get away with it?
Plllllleeeeeaaaasssee tell me it ain't so!!!!!
I want to puke. They broke the law, international, human law... they KILLED THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CHILDREN JUST TO GET THEIR HANDS ON IRAQI OIL. IS IT THAT IMPORTANT FOR THE US TO BE THE BIG STICK? IS IT THAT IMPORTANT THAT WE KEEP OUR LIFESTYLE OVER THOSSE OF PEOPLE IN OTHER NATIONS?
If there really is supposed to be a new way, a new beginning, JUST DO IT.
PUT THESE PEOPLE IN JAIL. THEY ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW!!!!!
It's really not a matter of "us keeping our lifestyle." It's a matter of what I call the Creepy Corporate Cabal, e. g., the oil companies, the arms manufacturers, keeping their lifestyle. The rest of us would be perfectly happy if our cars and houses ran on alternate, cheap, renewable energy and people didn't die in illegal wars, but the Creepy Corporate Cabal isn't willing to take THEIR lifestyle down a notch or two so the people and the planet wouldn't suffer and would actually greatly benefit.
Bush cheated himself into office. Obama cheated himself into office. Both were aided by this moneyed group, and both would never have made it into the presidency otherwise.
We can expect this to happen again in 2012 unless drastic action is taken, and I don't mean voting a third party candidate. That never works and it's based on wishful thinking. We must be realistic, especially with this latest in-your-face coup by O-treasonous.
PUT THESE PEOPLE IN JAIL. THEY ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW!!!!!
---------------------
No, they're not above the law. The ARE the law. These people rule like Kings, the hallmark trait being that law is an ad hoc expression of the ruler's will, not any codified set of moral or ethical principles.
We've all been suckered in this game at one time or another, and fingerpointing accomplishes nothing. Grab your hope and place it where it belongs: with your own people, not with your masters.
PRESIDENT OBAMA
What ARE you doing? I voted for you. I cringed and protested through the last three years of the Iraq War. I was hopeful... not so much that you would fix the economy, I think that is in the toilet anyway.
But that you would do what's right. You are there to protect the constitution. You are there as a public servant.
Cheney and Bush shoved their oversized egos down the throats of the whole world. Nooooowwwww, they are going to get away with it?
Plllllleeeeeaaaasssee tell me it ain't so!!!!!
I want to puke. They broke the law, international, human law... they KILLED THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CHILDREN JUST TO GET THEIR HANDS ON IRAQI OIL. IS IT THAT IMPORTANT FOR THE US TO BE THE BIG STICK? IS IT THAT IMPORTANT THAT WE KEEP OUR LIFESTYLE OVER THOSSE OF PEOPLE IN OTHER NATIONS?
If there really is supposed to be a new way, a new beginning, JUST DO IT.
PUT THESE PEOPLE IN JAIL. THEY ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW!!!!!
Seriously, does anyone feel any different than in November of last year? This is teh same America it was then, at it'll be the same America for the forseeable future: unless we do our part to change it.
Yes, Obama rules very much like Bush. Old news. Moving right along to trying to get a damn country back.
Shame on the DOJ, shame on our President and shame on us for allowing this to happen. Accountability - what happened to that, anyway? If we don't hold lawbreakers accountable, we are complicit in their acts, and we don't deserve to have the Constitution we so routinely desecrate.
I regret to say that I was once one of the children of the Corn. I stopped reading the Nation and listening to David Corn several years ago, when I began to see through all of this abhorrent mendacity being peddled via a complicit corporate media, and which is ruining this once great country of ours.
Corn is nothing more than a huckster of half truths. He'll stick his finger in the air and go whatever way the wind is blowing.
they will not throw themselves under the bus. they all belong to the same club.
as an increasing level of arrogance continues its oozing from his very pores, barackstar performs his balancing act on an ever-eroding base. his is the brightest, the shiniest, and the cheapest facade in the world's cheapest pop star culture.
in the game of politics, he is the consummate pawn.
If ten percent of the people (the elites) own ninety percent of the wealth in this country and ninety percent of the people own ten percent of the wealth who has the advantage. I would say that ninety percent of the people have an advantage in numbers to overturn just about anything but it will take all ninety percent on the same page at the same time minus any existing party affiliation. Anything is possible...
As frustrating as it is, there are just far too many of that 90% who truly are in the dark. They don't know what is happing before their very eyes. I have read a lot of posts on CD asking "Why don't we do something about it?" I am afraid the answer is, there just aren't enough of us at this time to effectively accomplish anything. If the entire 90% of people being literally screwed to death were actually aware of what is happining and actually cared enough to fight back, yeah, we could force major change. Unfortunately, that just isn't the case...at least yet.
The Pollyanna syndrome is a hard habit to kick...there is always a 'what if?' and 'why not?'
Yep, sold out again, just like Dems have been doing since Viet Nam era & before...
Whatever happened to that "equal justice before the law" garbage?
Whatever happened to, "Hi! I'm the FBI or DOJ! Sit down with us for a "voluntary" interview, or else face 'obstruction of justice' procedures"? You know, like the conversation any of the rest of us would be having with 'em when they come to our door with questions & investigations?
Wanderer - Well said!
I believe the term for describing such an exaggerated form of denial is known as "Renault Syndrome" - named after the corrupt police chief in Casablanca who uttered those very words.
Unfortunately since the case was opened before Obama became president, the Dept. of Justice, even if it doesn't agree, must still pursue it. Icky fact of change of administration. Some things continue just because of procedure.
Obama and Holder do not have to pursue or follow the legal arguments of Bush. Obama spoke of being in favor of transparency in government and being for accountability. Through his Dept of Justice and his changing colors he is showing us that he is a chameleon.
That's precisely the point; they are legally and morally obligated to pursue these issues to the full extent of the law--and they are openly saying that they aint gonna do it. What's your point?
Thanks for a bit of reality. I voted for Obama, and support him, but less and less each day. Personally I wish Kucinich was prez.
BUT it seems like so much lack of imagination on the part of all the knee-jerk Obama-haters on CD. It doesn't seem to dawn on them that maybe, just maybe there's something else going on that the public isn't privvy to. For chrissake, it's obvious Cheney is an outright racist, evil bastard, who hates the fact that a black guy is president. And yet Obama is defending him? Please. There's something else going on, possibly even something as benign as what Alhucema said - mere procedure.
It was admitted already what is goin on.
CIA director Leon, was told not to open "Pandoras Box"
In other words don't start the revolution.
This is the same projection that got you into hot water in the first place. I don't say that with any venom or ill will, either. I would love to see some elites take responsibility for their messes and do good for goodness' sake and all that. But I'm not going to rely on it,and it's no excuse for me to do nothing.
I'm not an Obama hater. That would imply that he actually mattered much in the course of historical affairs. He doesn't. He's a face, the pr spokesperson for a system, nothing more. For that same reason, I don't even hate Bush. He did precisely what he was trained to do.
At this point, we're the problem. You and me. It's up to us to answer our call. We know what's wrong, and we have a horde of ideas on what to do to stop it and several options for a new course. We have to overcome our learned passivity and do our part. It's the people's turn. We either answer, or we get what we deserve.
So do you all think that most D's think like the people who see through him(Ohpissbro)now? if not, when do you think they will wake to the reallity of their ploy(Corporationally- contolled- politicians)? As we have seen the proud repigs never give up on W till he was through--will the demons do the same--my money's on they will and the end will come.
Yes...the stage is set for real revolution... Cheer -Up, things will get worse...My concern is that as the angrier the people get our system is organized to violently suppress any resistance to the power of the state... as street demonstrations turn to violence no matter who starts it.
I feel most of us know in our bones that this Empire of death and lies is fallin apart and the reaction and suppression is gonna be big....
So my two cents says We sure need to think of ways to make our lives better without waiting for politicians to do it for us.
Love the revolution, Baby
Clearly the Demopublicans see themselves as on the same team serving ruling elites' wealth and power worldwide via a trillion dollar military and endless covert and overt wars. Team players do not reveal the game plans and moves of team members since they are all in the Big Game together. As was clearly demonstrated by the Bush/Cheney/neocon crew, matters of law including the Constitution and Bill of Rights, international law and US treaty obligations are all irrelevant the moment they get in the way of or could cause any hesitation for any central goal. The Obama squad continues the "game" under the same assumptions and with the same goals. An oligarchy has seized power. So long as it suits them they will do some periodic dances known as political campaigns and elections, but via various mechanisms from easily manipulated electronic voting systems to creating enormous barriers for third party participation on an equal footing--consider the exclusion of Nader and other from even participating in televised "debates"--the ruling elites are assured that the "winners" will perform. They would never have been permitted to rise in the ranks had there been any doubt of their core allegiance to the US global empire project. A vast and faithful propaganda system keeps the majority of the population appropriately misinformed, while the show biz, bigtime sports, infotainment divisions distract and divert. As with empires of the past, the internal rot, ever neglected by the rich and powerful, will likely bring it down.
Or alternatively, since Cheney was reportedly running an international assassination squad out of his office, maybe he left a "Don't ever mess with me" note on top of his desk with a black hand print on it.
Doesn't this infuriate everyone? Aren't you all driven to the streets with signs now and demonstrations? Americans..what happened to your rebelliousness? Get out there in the streets and start screaming for what you want! Healthcare, employment, education, housing, war on drugs? Hah! Never happened..it didn't work..war on crime? Hahahah..we still got plenty of crime.. The people of this country are the ones I blame for the mess we are in...they are so easily distracted from the truth..like a kitten with a string. Republicans couldn't care less about any of you...Democrats? Only slightly better...they are pretty much controlled by the corporations as well but talk like they care.. Good luck everyone..watch your tv's..listen to your radios, gossip with your friends, buy lots of STUFF, to prove how good you are and don't worry..America is becoming a third world nation and dictatorship..your children will suffer the most, my children as well. Start listening and fighting for what is real! Your future is bleak America and you are asleep. Talk is cheap, take action.
The nation is going down the tubes at an ever increasing rate. Wall Street still makes the rules, Goldman-Sachs just gave out the biggest bonuses in the history of the company this year (courtesy of the taxpayers, i.e. you and me), and what is dominating the MSM news? Michael Jackson.
Well said!
godistwaddle:
WHAT KIND of person are you? Oh, I know you are one of the Obamaniacs and whatever HE does is perfectly O, K. with you? BHO says the Stimulus is working, are you? He also says the Stimulus is working, but can you tell me just how it is working? More layoffs last week and it will continue until there is no place left to lay off their employees. Please tell me what will you do then?
It seems to me that all those Obamaniacs would have been awakened by now. That man has turned around EVERY thing he promised when he was campaigning. (Not that he has ever stopped campaigning.) He is still trying to convince us that he knows what he is doing and it is the best for us, NO, NO, NO. He ONLY does things HE wants to and to hell with all of us. We can thank Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, and BARNEY FRANK along with him for all of our problems.
Until Bush and Cheney hang, no United States citizen should obey any law he would like to break and can without penalty.
YESSSSS! THEY NEED TO HANG. If they don't obey the laws of our land, why should anyone else? I agree. It seems to be the laws apply to only the poor and middleclass, the elite can do whatever they want, steal, lie, commit treason, perjury AND NOBODY HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE!!!!!!!!!!! (Unless sex is involved, we are very serious about that!) Of course not, they run big business and the govt and all the politicians so what can you expect? AMERICA IS BEING DESTROYED BEFORE YOUR VERY EYES PEOPLE AND WHAT ARE YOU ALL GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?...Watch some more TV.
marcie331 July 2nd, 2009 6:43 pm..........Years ago, Bush I told his secretary (I believe..or someone very close to him)......'If the American people knew what the Bush family has done to this country, we would be hung in the streets" That is a documented quote. May be found in many sources...the one I like most is this blockbuster article ...Go to Israelshamir.net and scroll down to Part I and II of the "collateral damage 911 pdf".......it will knock the head off your shoulders....
Long load and read, but well worth the time and knowledge.
marcie331: AMERICA IS BEING DESTROYED BEFORE YOUR VERY EYES PEOPLE AND WHAT ARE YOU ALL GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
You got it, marcie331 - but even particular CD-ers don't get it yet; don't want to maybe as they fantasize about the next election with the "better" candidates who will somehow deliver us.
The coup d'etat happened already. The sheople can bleat and stampede and run around the Washington Monument by the millions. It's not going to matter. We've all been had.
Time to start thinking differently now, soberly, rationally and not avoid looking the dragons and very real dangers in the eye and assessing the true picture.
We've all been had, and that's the place to start.
peace, cm
Sober thinking--the poor and the working and middle classes had better start some serious, deadly violence against the predator rich, or we are all lost.
The neo-nazis did it to us again. They slipped another repug in as a Democrat. Now we will have twelve years of the Dictators regime. Three Bush terms in a row, three terms of Attorney Generals siding with the war criminals. Impeach Obama and Eric Holder. Then add them to the list of war criminals. Trials and hanging in the future, but not under these buddy, buddy republicans.
God, that is so scary. Neo Nazis? You could be right, I hope your not. Our govt always loved Nazis, we hired them to come work for us after WW II. Read up on IBM's involvement with the Nazis, and grand-daddy Bush loved them too.
Grandaddy Prescott did business with the Nazis in violation of laws regarding commerce with the enemy. Of course after the war, he attempted the overthrow of FDR and very well may have succeeded without Smedley Butler blowing the whistle on the coup that was planning the overthrow. The whole Bu$h family is the living definition of evil.
Speaking of Bu$hes, I don't recall who here on CD posted the link http://www.scribd.com/doc/16970135/September-11-Commission-Report-Revised-December-2008, but I want to thank them! This is a long but very good read and IMHO is a very plausible theory.
FDR died before the war ended.
but prescott did attempt a coup - before the war.
Call him "the Beige Bush" from now on.
Poet
Pete Townsend could have told us this was coming decades ago:
We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgment of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie
There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
PaulWM
I know I'm nit-picky but Townshend, as in Pete, is actually spelt with an 'H'.
OBAMA SHAME ON YOU! i knew this guy was full of shit last july
when he back tracked on the tele com immunity bill then took
a bribe uh i mean campaign CON-tribution. i was going to
work on his campaign.france is looking better by the minute.
Although the outrage remains, the novelty or surprise of Obama emulating his nefarious predecessor is becoming so routine and predictable that it's a "Dog Bites Man" story.
Those of us who weren't enraptured by Obama in the first place aren't surprised at all.
· Yr Obd't Servant
What was unexpected is that, having fallen so far short of being an energetic advocate for change, Obama would also fall far short of being a pragmatic, or even opportunistic pol. Even the basest form of self-interest would have dictated holding Bush & Cheney & their various agents responsible before the country & the world. Idealism, pragmatism, and opportunism would all indicate taking the same path.
Saint makes a good point.
Obama strolled into an orchard laden with plump, ripe, low-hanging fruit. But he's gathering instead a harvest of nettles and thorns -- and planting the same.
Obama's credibility is very much like The Incredible Shrinking Man.
Unlike The Incredible Shrinking Man (wonderful movie), Obimbo reached the microscopic stage of shrinkage after only 3 or 4 months. He is already invisible to the naked eye.
More plain and utter bullshit. Obama continues to cement his position as Public Enemy #1.
Jim Shea
This is just one of the many ways Obama has betrayed the trust of the people who elected him. I wish I'd voted for Nader.
Obama = George W. Bush the 3rd
So Much for Change and TRANSPARENCY in Government
People, admit it, if you Voted for Obama, You Made a MISTAKE!
But in 2012 we have a chance to make amends!
Ron Paul for President 2012! Lets Stand Up for Freedom and Liberty in America
and a Peaceful World.
One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America
Ron Paul?? Yeah, right, that's what we need. Less corporate oversight, greater disparity between rich and poor, smaller contribution by the wealthy to the public coffers, no social safety net, increased capability of corporations to exploit people and resources, etc. That sounds pretty good to you? Granted, Obama is turning out to be a disaster, but at least he said many of the right things in order to fool us. RP isn't even PRETENDING that the country wouldn't be an oligarchy.
Oh stop already with this voting crap. Your vote is worthless as an Obama sticker on a Prius.
1st 2nd 3rd party, doesn't matter unless the entire system is flushed. The system has gangrene, time to amputate and cauterize the wound.
The corporate-shielded chief executive of the USA: The all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful, 'I'.
A dictatorship--in plain words.
Serves you right Mr. Corn for picking Obama and giving no voice to Nader and Mckinney ! I hope you fail for joining the betrayal scumbag apologists !!
Mckinney is in an Israeli jail. Still. Obama has done absolutely nothing to ransom her from those circumcised pirates.
Oh, look! A writer for The Nation is surprised at Obama.
"I'm shocked! Shocked! To discover that gambling is going on here!"
Here's looking at you kid!!
"Play it again, Sham."