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TechnoratiIsrael Finally Admits Using White Phosphorous in Attacks on Gaza
After weeks of denying that it used white phosphorus in the heavily populated Gaza Strip, Israel finally admitted yesterday that the weapon was deployed in its offensive.
![[The incident being investigated is believed to be the firing of white phosphorous shells at a UN school in Beit Lahiya on January 17. (Mohammed Abed/AFP)]](http://www.commondreams.org/files/article_images/UNschoolPhosphorous.jpg "UNschoolPhosphorous.jpg")
The army's use of white phosphorus - which makes a distinctive shellburst of
dozens of smoke trails - was reported first by The Times on
January 5, when it was strenuously denied by the army. Now, in the face of
mounting evidence and international outcry, Israel has been forced to
backtrack on that initial denial. "Yes, phosphorus was used but not in any
illegal manner," Yigal Palmor, a Foreign Ministry spokesman, told The
Times. "Some practices could be illegal but we are going into that. The
IDF (Israel Defence Forces) is holding an investigation concerning one
specific incident."
The incident in question is thought to be the firing of phosphorus shells at a UN school in Beit Lahiya in the northern Gaza Strip on January 17. The weapon is legal if used as a smokescreen in battle but it is banned from deployment in civilian areas. Pictures of the attack show Palestinian medics fleeing as blobs of burning phosphorus rain down on the compound.
A senior army official also admitted that shells containing phosphorus had been used in Gaza but said that they were used to provide a smokescreen.
The Ministry of Defence gave lawyers the task before the attack of investigating the legal consequences of deploying white phosphorus - commonly stocked in Nato arsenals and used by US and British forces in Iraq and Afghanistan - inside the Gaza Strip, home to 1.5 million Palestinians, and one of the most densely populated places in the world.
"From what I know, at least one month before it was used a legal team had been consulted on the implications," an Israeli defence official said. He added that Israel was surprised about the public outcry. "Everyone knew we were using it, and everyone else uses it. We didn't think it would get this much attention," he said.
Because Israel is not a signatory to the treaty that created the International Court of Justice in The Hague, it cannot be tried there. Any country that is a signatory to the Geneva Convention, however, can try to prosecute individuals who took part in the Gaza operation as culpable of war crimes.
Despite a denial when The Times first reported the use of white phosphorus, an army spokeswoman said yesterday that the military had never tried to cover up its deployment. "There was never any denial from the beginning," she said.
CHANGING TUNE
January 5 The Times reports that telltale smoke has appeared from areas of shelling. Israel denies using phosphorus
January 8 The Times reports photographic evidence showing stockpiles of white phosphorus (WP) shells. Israel Defence Forces spokesman says: "This is what we call a quiet shell - it has no explosives and no white phosphorus"
January 12 The Times reports that more than 50 phosphorus burns victims are taken into Nasser Hospital. An Israeli military spokesman "categorically" denies the use of white phosphorus
January 15 Remnants of white phosphorus shells are found in western Gaza. The IDF refuses to comment on specific weaponry but insists ammunition is "within the scope of international law"
January 16 The United Nations Relief and Works Agency headquarters are hit with phosphorus munitions. The Israeli military continues to deny its use
January 21 Avital Leibovich, Israel's military spokeswoman, admits white phosphorus munitions were employed in a manner "according to international law"
January 23 Israel says it is launching an investigation into white phosphorus munitions, which hit a UN school on January 17. "Some practices could be illegal but we are going into that. The IDF is holding an investigation concerning one specific unit and one incident"
Source: Times database
82 Comments so far
Show AllThe IDF never said that it wasn't using phosphorus. It said that it was using it legally.
Arabs always make a lot of accusations.
Arab propaganda ministries pump out accusations by the truckload. The world is full of shills, who are ready to promote them to the global public. It's the nature of the business, that the Ministry of Propaganda doesn't know which accusations will achieve traction. If "the Jenin Massacre" seems to be catching on, then they pour everything into promoting it. "White Phosphorus" is this year's "Jenin Massacre."
The process is similar to that of a pop star- wannabe. They try to get their songs heard, in the hope that one will catch on. They do not know in advance, which one it will be.
How the Arabs promote their needs is irrelevant. The topic of this article is that the IDF used WP illegally against innocent civilians, in a densely populated city. That you ignore the evidence and parrot the Israeli propaganda to the contrary is morally reprehensible.
That you are here shilling for the IDF indicates that Israel has its own propaganda juggernaut that surpasses anything the less-organized and poorly-funded Palestinians can generate.
Your effort to marginalize the Battle of Jenin when Israeli troops abrogated international law and entered a Palestinian city on Palestinian land and killed 56 Palestinians is clearly the product of a depraved mind. Murder is murder, no matter who conducts it.
Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in their moccasins - Native American proverb.
Wrong
" Commander in Chief Ashkenazi's words: The allegations of the IDF using WP [white phosphorus] are false."
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,,ISR,4562d8cf2,49705109c,0.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0114/p07s01-wome.html
It is illegal to use phosphorus in populated areas, and Gaza is one of the most densely populated in the World.
It's ok to defend Israel, but to defend IDF's actions in Gaza is something entirely different, add to that your blaming the victims for making accusations and your assertion becomes despicable.
"It said that it was using it legally. "
You mean its similar to the extermination of jewish people in nazi germany ... it was legal by nazi standards.
Who is this JJ clown?
I hope this article (and the many other accounts documenting the use of IDF WP against civilians) then convinces you that the IDF did use WP illegally. Ergo sum, the IDF lied.
Lied. Spelt L.I.E.D.
That Arabs make accusations is irrelevant. Your point is?
Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in their moccasins - Native American proverb.
Yes Pan, I'm sure the German's did feel they were right. It's all because of IDEOLOGY! If one models their actions after their belief system, i.e., Muslims are evil, then atrocities can be perpetrated upon others without threat of reprisal.
Jesus broke those codes when he said: "Love the Lord your God with all your mind, heart and soul; and your neighbor as yourself."
If we ever evolve to the point where we can live in the "NOW"-- that is by looking at the human being next to us and knowing that they are the same as you or I, worth the same as you or I, loved by God the same as you or I,-- then we will have heaven on earth, and no more war.
Pan
All my life I was horrified by the bad guys torturing bombing razing homes taking others lands humiliating others interrogations on a daily basis ,most books and historys were of a war of agression and occupiers ,I always knew we were on the right side and we and our allies might get out of control but always were the good guys.I can never see that again it is as if WE ARE THEM becoming them to a degree. When the Israeli story is told they are right again and again . Did the Germans think the same way.
Justice and Liberty for All
White phosphorous ain't so bad... It stops burning when it hits bone...
If it kept burning after it hit bone??? Now that would be a war crime...
The IOF is obviously continuing its vile practise of shooting children in the head, as the large number of such injured and almost brain dead children attests to..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/4279102/Bullets-in-the-brain...
Bastards..
True 8 months deliberation might feel like a long time. When I used the phrase "hasty" I meant the short span of time passed since the pictures from the concentration camps made their way to the newspapers. The western governments was influenced by compassion of the Jews and a collective feeling of guilt. UNSC should, like Justitia appear blindfolded and neutral. It was not. So they gave the zionists something that was not theirs to give away. How US and Soviet managed to create a majority in the Council I don't know, I guess quite a few arms were twisted. Anyways This is a very good example of what Plato called "Tyranny of the majority" when the democratic system fail to recognize the rights of a minority. In this tragic event, the Palestinians.
Step right up folks and get your free "get out of jail card"
Look at that, matching pictures too:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/2009125143226707260.html
Actually, there was one more video (in 6 parts, clips) that I had intended to include and momentarily forgot. This is a Channel 4 (UK ?) investigative report on msm news coverage of the present Israeli state or regime war on Palestine, since it started Dec 27, 2008, and while I haven't yet viewed beyond the first clip yet, what I gathered from the description indicates that this should be important for resource. The links to the videos were obtained from Uruknet Jan 24th, and I'll quote that piece, given the whole is said to be by Channel 4. Uruknet provides no source link to an original copy of the article, as if this one at Uruknet is the original, but the different text in the page for the videos also says the report is by Channel 4, so I guess it really is.
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m51188
QUOTE:
Is what has been presented on our screens and in our papers a true reflection of events on the ground in Gaza? And how do these reports differ to those aired in other countries?
With reporters unable to enter Gaza, attempted media manipulation from both sides and strict regulations governing what images that can be shown on British TV, Jon Snow asks a range of journalists from at home and abroad about the challenges of getting the full story.
Featuring images that haven't before been aired on mainstream television, Jon also examines the difference between the coverage at home and that in the US, Europe and the Middle East. He compares the coverage available on terrestrial channels with satellite TV and the internet and investigates the extent to which some British Muslims are by-passing the mainstream British media and looking elsewhere for their information.
To what extent does the choice of news outlet affect opinion of the conflict?
END QUOTE
"Unseen Gaza High Quality: Part 1 of 6" (9:46), posted by TheWayToJunnah, Jan 23 2009,
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=UeezoWRu1FU
Part 2 of 6 (8:07)
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Wod2ycln0AQ
Parts 3, 4 and 5 (all 9:46)
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix3bpbNXJSo
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=PRhgQESUhmo
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=BSiymcMlHgc
Part 6 (1:26)
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=3sd4TMw9wEE
I guess there was a little technical trouble with squeezing part 6's short length into the first 5 clips (joking).
The reason for including, above, the links for all 6 parts or clips of the video is to help prevent youtube user confusion, for there'ss another set with dthe same base for title, that is, "Unseen Gaza", and the above one has "High Quality" added to the title. I started getting the other set mixed into this above set this morning and prefer to make sure to have an integral set of clips for this apparently very important video.
To really put a finishing touch on these posts of mine, in this CD page, I'll include a link to an extensive essay, "The Business of War", which is excellent and by Wade Frazier. The essay is relevant in terms of the wars of the U.S. and Israel today, and if not in absolutely every respect, then still in many of the important ones. This includes war-time propaganda, i.e., deceptions, lies, ..., and racket, extreme violence, and more.
The essay's first draft was 1999 and I didn't see a date for completion or edits. Whatever the date for it now should be though, it seems like an essay that'll be valid for contemporary reference for ... too long ahead.
http://www.ahealedplanet.net/war.htm
VERY strong essay. And this is it for these four posts of mine for resource links in this page; or I hope this is all anyway. I still need to view the remaining five unviewed video clips of the bove 'Unseen Gaza' report.
For my last post for resource links in this CD page, this will be a current Jewish denunciation, condemnation, ... of the conduct of the regime of the state of Israel with its extreme crimes of war and against humanity.
"Absolutely Not in Their Name, Not in Ours",
by Michael Warschawski, Alternative Information Center (AIC), AlternativeNews.org, Jan 24 2009
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m51190
That is a relatively short article, and wholly good, a strong denunciation, but I'll only excerpt some of this piece and it'll be enough to relate to the links I'll conclude this post with.
EXCERPT:
Absolutely Not! Not in Their Name, Not in Ours
Ehud Barak, Tzipi Livni, Gabi Ashkenazi and Ehud Olmert--don’t you dare show your faces at any memorial ceremony for the heroes of the Warsaw Ghetto, Lublin, Vilna or Kishinev. And you too, leaders of Peace Now, for whom peace means a pacification of the Palestinian resistance by any means, including the destruction of a people. Whenever I will be there, I shall personally do my best to expel each of you from these events, for your very presence would be an immense sacrilege.
Not in Their Names
You have no right to speak in the name of the martyrs of our people. You are not Anne Frank of the Bergen Belsen concentration camp but Hans Frank, the German general who acted to starve and destroy the Jews of Poland.
You are not representing any continuity with the Warsaw Ghetto, because today the Warsaw Ghetto is right in front of you, targeted by your own tanks and artillery, and its name is Gaza.
END EXCERPT
The following two links are for perhaps (rather definitely) not thorough comparisons, but are very good and explicit comparisons between what the Hitler-Nazi regime did to the Jews and what the state of Israel has been, for around 61 years, doing to the Palestinians. The juxtaposition of the pictures (the video is moving or shifting stills) shown in the following two sources provide strong comparisons of similarities. I and some, if not many, other people didn't need these images in order to be able to realise that the regime of the state of Israel is at least equally as bad as that of Hitler was; at least equally as bad! However, the following two pieces are nevertheless good.
The video is 2:13 and posted by eshiboi, Jan 18 2009
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=VrnrkSorLfE
Norman Finkelstein's page is entirely of still pictures and very good quality they are.
"The Grandchildren of Holocaust Survivors From World War II Are Doing To The Palestinians Exactly What Was Done To Them By Nazi Germany ...", Jan 16 2009
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2510
Of course everyone knows that Prof. Finkelstein is Jewish, therefore not anti-semitic; although to be really anti-semitic would mean to also need to be anti-Arab. Semites are not only Jews.
I have other links to Jews protesting against the war and other extreme crimes of the Israeli leadership, political and military leadership(s), but will leave this post as is, to finish off providing resource links for this page at CD. It's easy enough to find Youtube videos and articles for Jews protesting against what the regime of the state of Israel has been long doing and is doing today. And Michael Warschawski's above article copied at Uruknet certainly is a strong statement; I'll repeat.
At this point, it doesn't matter what the Israel forces used. The fact that they levied such extreme damage against Gaza is outrageous enough and is a sign that the US needs to stop wasting taxpayer money on military aid to Israel for a change. Israel can defend itself all it wants to but bulldozing a defenseless state is MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE !!
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
Phosphorous is rightly banned as a weapon. We know from Vietnam how it indiscriminately maims people, but often does not kill them. As used in the photo, a huge wave of phosphorous shells will rebound around behind walls and into buildings, and will maim almost anyone in the area.
Continuing from my prior and first post in this page at CD:
Re. the following piece, I read another article yesterday, or else the day before, at also, but not by, Uruknet, and really wondered if any real efforts had been made to verify that the horrific criminality of the IDF described indeed or really happened, or if it's false propaganda; but the following is reported by a source that has struck me as usually, or else always, while only based on what I've read from the source, as reliable. Still, I wonder how much effort was made to verify the reports of witnesses and so on. Otoh, I'll include links to a video or two or ... further below, for these provide for the following piece being credible.
"Report: The IOF troops executed many detained civilians during its war on Gaza",
by Palestinian Information Center, palestine-info.co.uk, Jan 24 2009
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m51174
QUOTE:
GAZA, (PIC)-- The Palestinian center for the defense of prisoners on Saturday revealed that the IOF troops kidnapped during their aggression on the Gaza Strip about 300 Palestinian civilians, some of them were executed by gunfire or tank shells.
In a statement received by the PIC, the center explained that the IOF troops, during the war on Gaza, used a number of Palestinian citizens as human shields to protect themselves from Palestinian gunfire in blatant violation of all international norms and conventions.
Different Palestinian eyewitnesses told the center that the IOF troops executed prisoners individually and collectively.
The eyewitnesses reported that the IOF troops executed children and women individually when asking them to come out one by one from their homes, adding that in some cases, the IOF troops put a number of Palestinian citizens in one house and then shelled or opened fire extensively on that house.
According to the eyewitnesses the IOF troops also detained Palestinians in a house and then ordered Israeli bulldozers to raze it to the ground over the detained citizens.
These testimonies proved that the IOF troops committed organized war crimes against civilians during their aggression on Gaza.
The center appealed to all concerned institutions around the world to pool their efforts in order to bring Israeli leaders and soldiers responsible for these crimes to justice.
END QUOTE
"Video: Gaza villages Wiped off the map", (8:21), posted by wotdoesitmatter, Jan 21 2009
("Another excellent report by Jonathan Miller. Telling the story of destruction and killing in Gaza.")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hjyq2FzRBo
"Gaza: The Killing Zone: Israel-Palestine", (10:09), posted by JourneymanPictures, Aug 13 2007
(there's a link for the full film, which is at booserver.com)
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&NR=1
"Israel's 'Colonies': Anna Baltzer" (4:01), posted by redrose222, Oct 21 2008,
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=-rCBJjCiLGc
THAT video link was obtained from the following article, which includes a little bio. on Anna Baltzer.
"Video: What You Need To Know About Israel's "Colonies"", by Anna Baltzer ICH, Jan 16 2009
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11810
QUOTE:
Anna Baltzer, a young Jewish American, went to the West Bank to discover the realities of daily life for Palestinians under the occupation. What she found would change her outlook on the conflict forever. She wrote this book to give voice to the stories of the people who welcomed her with open arms as their lives crumbled around them. For five months, Baltzer lived and worked with farmers, Palestinian and Israeli activists, and the families of political prisoners, traveling with them across endless checkpoints and roadblocks to reach hospitals, universities, and olive groves.
Baltzer witnessed firsthand the environmental devastation brought on by expanding settlements and outposts and the destruction wrought by Israels Security Fence, which separates many families from each other, their communities, their land, and basic human services. What emerges from Baltzers journal is not a sensationalist tale of suicide bombers and conspiracies, but a compelling and inspiring description of the trials of daily life under the occupation. Anna Baltzer is a Jewish American graduate of Columbia University, Fulbright scholar, and two-time volunteer with the International Womens Peace Service in the West Bank, where she documented human rights abuses and supported the nonviolent resistance movement to the occupation.
Extracts of Witness in Palestine: A Jewish American Woman in the Occupied Territories, written by Anna Baltzer.
END QUOTE
The last line has her book's title hyperlinked, and after viewing the video, I was moved to check Youtube for more videos with or by her and there are more. There are some specifically on or based upon her book, 'Witness in Palestine'.
"Israel Hits UN School in Beit Lahiya (good report English)" (9:59), posted by wotdoesitmatter, Jan 19 2009
("Excellent report by Jonathan Millar (sic) reporting from Gaza and the UN School in Beit Lahiya where Phosphorus bombs and artillery struck, killing two children and injuring many more people. I've added a few photographs ...")
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=KmT0MjlPpRo
My posts for this page will be continued with one or two others, for additional resource links.
IDF soldiers dismember people with bulldozers (Rachel Corrie) and shoot peace activists in the head (Tom Hurndall) and regularly shoot Palestinian children and surprise, surprise, all of the enquiries Israel holds into these atrocities end with the soldier being found innocent. Pure farce. Israel tells so many lies about so many things and is so morally bankrupt that it is incapable of comprehending truth of any kind even if it smacks it in the face. with such a debased society there is only one way to go ... further into the sewer of humanity.
Olmert will protect Israeli soldiers from prosecution for war crimes. After all . . . they were just obeying orders.
"Obeying orders" was not considered mitigating circumstances in Nûrnberg, neither is it by ICC. The same in the Fourth Hague Convention. Israel might chose to ignore the crimes, but the soldiers can be arrested and prosecuted in any other country.
"Poet January 25th, 2009 9:11 pm
Left unsaid but of telling importance might be this addendum to the headline "Israel finally admits using white phospherous in the attacks on Gaza"
...because of the incessant and accurate reporting of alternative media like Democracy Now, Common Dreams, and Al Jazera made denial of such pointlessly ridiculous."
CD does NOT do any reporting at all; it only provides copies of articles from news media agencies and articles by individuals, some being opinions, expressions of views, and then some are analyses, like the one by Scott Ritter and posted at CD yesterday, but while having been originally at TruthDig.com, f.e. DN and Al Jazeera are only two of plenty that provide good news reporting, yet this is not to say that they're always good or right, for they're not always good and right; they also make mistakes, and sometimes express views that are questionable, if not outright wrong. They're humanly run and "to err is human", but that means that it's important to be [careful]. CD too often posts junk and should try to replace this content with qualitative articles, while maintaining the postings of such articles, when they are posted.
Uruknet's not bad, being good,providing copies of articles from news sources and people presenting views and analyses that we never see here at CD, but Uruknet also behaves in bogus ways now and then. And there are many other websites serving not a news organisations, but as portals, which is what CD basically is.
=================================
With that said, I'll post some links to some articles that aren't specifically related to the Times, UK, piece, but which are nonetheless about the same Israeli war on Palestine.
Israel has NOT been respecting its most recently declared ceasefire.
"The Israeli army opens fire at resident homes in southern Gaza",
by Ghassan Bannoura, IMEMC.org, Jan 24 2009
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m51178
QUOTE:
The Israeli army opened fire at resident homes and farm lands located at Al Faraheen village located in the southern part of the Gaza strip on Saturday.
The residents said that Israeli tanks stationed at the borders opened fire at their homes and farms; damage was reported but no injuries.
The Israeli Army embarked on its military offensive on Saturday, December 27th, 2008. For 22 days, homes, schools, mosques, UN centers, and media agencies were attacked by Israeli air, sea, and ground forces. Israel announced the unilateral ceasefire on Sunday 17th of Jan. 2009.
Today�s incident is not the first time Israel�s violate its cease fire, On Thursday, Israeli Navy forces opened fire at Palestinian fishermen just off the shore of Gaza City, injuring seven civilians. On day before, on Wednesday, the boats fired shells at the coast line, causing damage but no injuries.
The Palestinian Ministry of Health this week has placed the death toll in Gaza due to the military offensive at 1,330 with at least 5,000 injured. Doctors say that of those 1,330 killed there are at least 400 children.
END QUOTE
"it’s a ceasefire…just not on the beach, not in your home",
by InGaza.wordpress.com, Jan 24 2009
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m51170
QUOTE: "On the 5th morning after Israel declared a 'ceasefire’, Israeli gunboats began shelling, as they had on several mornings since halting the 22 day air and land bombardment of Gaza. The shelling, which began just after 7:30 am off Gaza city’s coast, injured at least 6, including one boy with shrapnel in his head".
I haven't viewed them at all yet, so I don't know what they're specifically about; but there are two videos in this above article by In Gaza.
ON another related, enough, topic, and I look forward to proof about the following: ....
Well, I'll place the additional links in a next post in this page, given CD allows no more than around 1,000 characters per post.
Good post, thanks for the link.
Left unsaid but of telling importance might be this addendum to the headline "Israel finally admits using white phospherous in the attacks on Gaza"
...because of the incessant and accurate reporting of alternative media like Democracy Now, Common Dreams, and Al Jazera made denial of such pointlessly ridiculous. Big Brother's memory hole has malfunctioned--let us send up a cheer.
Poet
Paul Siemering
before the first accusations about white phosphorus were raised, there was an ap photo in our local paper captioned something like Israel continues bombing of Gaza. but white phosphorus is a hard weapon to hide, and the photo showed the unmistakable white streaks. i took one look at it an said "my Goddess- they're using white phosphorus!"
imagine that
CNN is a Disney owned corp and is Jewish controlled. n'est pas?
Actually Disney was founded and run by a man of French decent who after World War II employed one of the most notorious Nazi war criminals as a technical advisor.
This technical advisor was an expert in rocketry, especially the early ballistic V-2 Missiles that were used against England. Misslies that were built at the Nazi facility at Penemunde, using slave labor from prisoners who were frequently worked to death and routinely exposed to toxic and explosive chemicals. This technical advisor was removed to the US under the auspices of Project Paperclip, which relocated many Nazi scientists responsible for the worst atrocities of human experimantation to the home countries of the winning side in WWII. These countries (US, UK, USSR) protected their new found technical geniuses from war crimes prosecution.
This technical advisor worked on the animated film 'Man in Space' which provided much of the enthusiasm for the US space program that eventually put a man on the moon.
This technical advisor is revered by many techno-philes as 'The Father of the US Space Program'.
He was Werner VonBruan. He was a war criminal.
So to have the US media echo chamber protect war criminals is nothing new.
Afterall, it has a long and grand tradition of turning monsters into heroes...
Walk in peace.
Wow, so you not only hate "the Jews" but Disney too!
JoeHope is a demented Israel stooge. I am on the local American Red Cross Board and a member of the IRC and the e-mail I received yesterday said that 79% of the world and 68% of Americans oppose what Israel did in Gaza. ASlso, Israel may be the most hated country in the world, as are its people.
Who are the 42% of Americans that support it???????????
That 42-44% that support it are also the ones who belive in angels and await with breathless anticipation for the 'Second Coming' of Jebus, and 'The Rapture (tm)', as advertised by that whacko author of teh 'Left Behind' series of trash paperbacks...
Walk in peace.
Jonah,
Do you deny that the IRC has issued a statement saying that Israel did not use WP illegally?
Here is a link to the statement that you can deny exists:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231866575577&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
"The International Red Cross said Tuesday that Israel has fired white phosphorus shells in its offensive in the Gaza Strip, but has no evidence to suggest it is being used improperly or illegally." -JP
-in other words they don't have evidence doesn't mean it wasn't done. By the way that article came from the Jerusalem Post. Foxes guarding hen houses?
Ric Abreu,
You are starting with the presumption of guilt, regardless of the fact that you have no evidence (or at least the Red Cross doesn't believe you do).
What's the matter with the Jerusalem Post?
A CNN poll found that 63% of Americans felt that Israel's war on Gaza was right. They say only 17% of Americans supported the Palestinians.
"The International Red Cross said Tuesday that Israel has fired white phosphorus shells in its offensive in the Gaza Strip, but has no evidence to suggest it is being used improperly or illegally. "
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231866575577&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Damn that Zionist Red Cross and their pro-Israeli propaganda!
And the latest CNN poll showed 99% of the world population think that you are a zionist fuckwit. CNN, and the rest of the US MSM polls or opinions are as good as the poll calling you a fuckwit.
"f***wit"
Can't handle the truth, Horrified?
I don't know horrified. I agree with the poster. Of course Israel used WP. Have to. It is the only thermal smoke. In 2006 Israel lost several tanks to RPGs and ATMs that used thermal imaging. This time they didn't lose any tanks. Sounds like it saved some Israeli lives at the cost of some enemy lives. Not a bad trade. Note that it was all airburst not ground burst which they would have used if trying to do damage to ground targets.
Wow Johnnyshade, that's a really good trade. Let's destroy an entire area the size of Los Angeles and burn people alive if it saves a few tanks.
Where would Israel be if they lost a couple of tanks seeing as the US only gives them three billion dollars a year to arm themselves to the teeth?
It's posts like yours that warm my heart and give me hope for humanity...thanks.
Sorry, Israel admitted using it as a weapon NOT a smokescreen. You buy their BS, the world does not.
Horrified,
Please, would you bother to read the article before commenting?
Israel has admitted to using WP "in it's offensive", not "as an offensive weapon".
They are even investigating their own military to make sure it was properly used.
Israel maintains, as does the IRC, that it's use of WP was legal.
Your lies are getting really tiresome.
Are you even capable of debating without distorting the facts or inventing them out of thin air?
Aren't you ashamed to have been proven a liar so many times?
Seems the IMP (Israeli Propaganda Ministry) could afford to pay someone else with a few more brains than Joedope to post comments here. White phosphorus is very expensive so their budget only allows for minimum wage propaganda recruits.
BS.
I take it you mean Red Cross -ICRC ?
It is inconceivable that ICRC have said anything about the legality of IDF's use of Phosphorous. They have never, shall never and will never have any opinion on the legality of events during a war.
"If ICRC delegates in the field gather credible and precise evidence of violations, or if ICRC medical personnel corroborate reports by others, the ICRC would begin by discussing this with the party concerned – rather than speaking publicly – in keeping with our standard practices. We have not commented publicly on the legality of the current use of phosphorous weapons by Israel, contrary to what has been attributed to us in recent media reports".
http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/weapons-interview-170109?opendocument
This is the way Red Cross operates, and this is the reason neither side refuse Red Cross access to any sites they might wish to visit. (Untill present regimes in US and Israel )-Like the White Buses to Auschwitz at the end of WWll. Not even that time did they venture any opinion on what they witnessed. Must have been hard to keep silent, but it is a "Sine qua non" for the important work they do.
A bit of advice: Be careful who you call a Liar. You look so silly when it backfires.
Daga,
"A bit of advice: Be careful who you call a Liar. You look so silly when it backfires."
How ironic.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231866575577&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
"In some of the strikes in Gaza it's pretty clear that phosphorus was used," Herby told The Associated Press. "But it's not very unusual to use phosphorus to create smoke or illuminate a target. We have no evidence to suggest it's being used in any other way."
The Zionists plan for Plausible deniability is quite transparent., and so simple that it would only work with gullible acoloytes and retards. First the press is denied access to Gaza. Without credible eyewitness they will always find a person willing to rise sufficient doubt..and so yet another IDF atrocity is left to history...and the killers declared heroes and pure as snow. I don't know who this Peter Herby is, but as I (in vain) tried to tell you is it against the policy of ICRC to place any kind of culpability in a conflict. Still, when you manage to equate (read transform)
". We have no evidence to suggest it's being used in any other way."
to
"that it's use of WP was legal."
You are, as George Galloway said to Norm Coleman during his senate hearing--" remarkably cavalier with any idea of justice."
However the evidence is easy to find. Pictures of Gaza city in broad daylight Jan 3.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0114/p07s01-wome.html
and UN headquarter Jan 15:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5521925.ece
Further evidence:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/16/phosphorus-bombs-video-israel-gaza
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5519433.ece
My dear man: the discrepancy between your offensive language and limited intellectual capacity makes you look rather silly. My advice: Change attitude, change political orientation, change personality, and last but not least: change your underwear, you stink.
"I don't know who this Peter Herby is, but as I (in vain) tried to tell you is it against the policy of ICRC to place any kind of culpability in a conflict."
As it said in the article you didn't bother to read, Peter Herby is the head of the organization's mines-arms unit for the ICRC.
"In some of the strikes in Gaza it's pretty clear that phosphorus was used," Herby told The Associated Press. "But it's not very unusual to use phosphorus to create smoke or illuminate a target. We have no evidence to suggest it's being used in any other way."
"Herby said that using phosphorus to illuminate a target or create smoke is legitimate under international law, and that there was no evidence the Jewish state was intentionally using phosphorus in a questionable way, such as burning down buildings or knowingly putting civilians at risk.
The International Red Cross said Tuesday that Israel has fired white phosphorus shells in its offensive in the Gaza Strip, but has no evidence to suggest it is being used improperly or illegally. "
Facts are stubborn things aren't they Daga?
For the 3rd time.
ICRC is by it's very charter prevented from taking side in any conflict, and must NEVER make any comment on the legality of either side's actions.
And you use that characteristic of ICRC's MO as evidence ?
I don't know what motivates your idiotic remarks. Whether you are a despicable racist or just a quarrelsome fool. In any case I've had enough of your kind.
Good day to you Sir.
Ahhh ... now i feel better. So the use of white phosphorous is essentially a smoke screen. It has nothing to do with chemical weapons and complete disregard for humanity. Zionists are not animals or serial killers after all. I can sleep well now. For a minute there I was disappointed with my Zionist soul brothers who have never failed to uphold the highest standards of integrity and morality. But now i feel better.
Ehud Olmert said the IDF soldiers who committed crimes will be protected by Israel. Not if I can get my hand on such cowards. None of them had better leave Israel, especially not for America. Perhaps we can find out who their relatives are in our countries.
So much hatred...
Well if you can't stand the heat...
What a wonderful symbol of Jewishness is Israel! Where could you get a better advertisement? I mean, when you see what they do you just want to rush out and sign up for Judaism, don't you?
And now they admit what has been shown all over the world on television. Aren't they gracious? And they are setting up defence teams to stop their troops being changed with war crimes. Gee.
On second thoughts, I don't think I'll join up. I still have some principles.
They don't!
www.dangerouscreation.com
this is no more a religious war than are the 'troubles' in ireland a religious war. our rulers however want us to believe the poppycock in order to prevent us from identifying with their other victims and -- the big issue -- their righteous struggles.
A senior army official also admitted that shells containing phosphorus had been used in Gaza but said that they were used to provide a smokescreen.
Yup..its common knowledge that burning Palistinian children provide the best smokescreens...
I think it is now safe to say that Hilter's Final Solution, and Israel's Palistinian Solution, are now morally equivilent. Only the total numbers differ, and the fact the Hilter only burned his victims AFTER they were dead.
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Israel is nothing if not consistent. They say, first of all, we didn't use it. Second, well, we did use it but it wasn't illegal. Third, "Some practices could be illegal but we are going into that." Fourth, we will come out of that the same way we went into it, continuing to lie as blatantly as humanly possible, just for the fun of it. ( It's but one of the charismatic tricks we've perfected by improving on those pedestrian propagandists in the Third Reich). Fifth, so what if it's illegal, screw you if you don't like it. Sixth, screw you if you do like it. And seventh, screw you even if you have no thoughts on the matter at all.
Those Zionists are so charming.
True. the Judeo-christian God is both petty and vindictive. But minitrue, my good man , we must focus here. The muslim God is supposed to be the cruel one , not our God . That why we have to kill his followers by the millions.
The zionists entity has again and again demonstrated that they don't deserve our support. Its only Raison d'etre" is a hasty and wrongful Resolution by UNSC ,the very same body they have (with impunity thanks to US) totally ignored ever since.
There was nothing hasty about that Resolution. Given that none of the now independent former European colonies in Africa and Asia were members, it is surprising that it actually took more than eight months to get the UN to approve of the partition of Palestine. They were unable to get an agreement and ended up with a temporary plan with a UN Trusteeship. Eight months is a long time for arm(s) twisting. I believe I recall reading that the Philippines Ambassador was under intense pressure to change his vote.
The Abrahamic God is one...Jewish, Muslim, Christian...and their paradigm is and has been one of war for millenia. The amount of killing and cruel acts committed in his name, for thousands of years, are among the great failures of humanity.
Swords to Plowshares, White Phosphorous Explosives to campfires and fireworks...
Isn't it time we gave the weapons manufacturers in this country an opportunity to make a living creating peaceful and productive items instead of weapons of mass destruction?
When is the U.S. Department of Peace I keep hearing about going to be created and begin implementing a total restructuring of our barbarian economy?
About the same time the "Ministry of Truth" starts inventing history?
The U.S. Dept. of Peace will come about when Dennis Kucinich is taken seriously. The MSM seem to think he is amusing when he speaks of a Dept. of Peace, or Universal Healthcare, or healthy lifestyle, green technology, supporting unions, etc., in other words those things that are good for humanity.
The arms manufacturers are in the same business as those who manufacture roadside bombs only one is a corporation and one is mom and pop. The end result is the same. We view roadside bomb manufacturers as terrorists, and our arms manufacturers as patriots; what hypocrisy! The time hopefully will come (probably not in my lifetime) when all arms (except for hunting)(I am not a hunter, but understand the need)will be outlawed and the need to kill one another will have been selectively bred out of us by that Intelligent Design from which we have all evolved. Bombs don't kill people, people with bombs kill people!
"Everyone knew we were using it, and everyone else uses it. We didn't think it would get this much attention," he said.
-Gee, everybody else is committing war crimes, so we thought it wasn't a big deal. The US does it all the time so what is the big deal? Right?
To the OS-DPAs (Obama-supporting Dem Party apologists) why hasn't Obama said a word about Israeli war crimes? Is not Obama's reaction EXACTLY the same response Bush would have given? Please elaborate on the not even a dimes worth of difference.
The Israeli government must be held accountable. Ehud Olmert should be tried in the Hague, next to Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld et al, for crimes against humanity.
I have been to Israel and have Israeli friends, both Arab and Jew, and they are peace loving people who do not support "their" government's crimes just as most Americans do not support "our" government's crimes.
I suggest that the CEO's of weapons manufacturing companies also be tried for crimes against humanity. It's time for the world to set a new standard by holding accountable those responsible for these acts of violence, including those who profit.
ratdog
We could not agree more. What part of illegal do these people not understand. After yesterdays missile attacks attacks inside Pakistan seem to indicate the new president is in total ownership of this war and already has blood on his hands. This is what results from the war profiters do not face any penalties for the crimes they commit. I really do not think the current people in power wish to prosecute Bush and Olmert for war crimes when they know full well they may like to use these powers as well. Next thing you know they will be saying that they need to fund these illegal wars for the sake of the economy!! Lordy it never ends.
If Israel obtained white phosphorous from the U.S. as part of its annual $3 billion in U.S. aid, it has violated U.S. law by using it, especially in civilian areas. Therefore, WE should be telling our members of Congress to suspend further aid to Israel pending a thorough, INDEPENDENT (U.N.?) investigation of the proscribed weapons used in Israel's assault on Gaza, which may also include cluster bombs, depleted uranium, and DIME (Dense Inert Metal Explosives which leave undetectable traces of cancer-causing tungsten in survivors' bodies).
But, like the needed prosecution of the Bush war criminals, this will most likeley never happen. Justice and respect for laws are only expected of the weak, not the dominant.
so these lying bastards continue their lies while confessing their lies
odd - now it is time to put a few more israelis into the gas chambers - this time for war crimes
so ironic to see the jews, victimized as they were by the nazis, become nazis themselves
time to start the prosecution
we need to save the palestinians from these heartless murderers
60 years of occupation is quite enough
and let's shut down the holocausts memorials
the israelis have milked that cow for the last time
and the slogan needs to be amended to read: NEVER AGAIN, unless we do it
which is the american slogan
how ironic is that
cheers, b
There is an old saying, 'you become what you hate' which applies directly to the State of Israel.
I forget who said this (Shakespeare?), but it seems highly applicable here, as well as in many US instances:
"Oh, what tangled webs we weave when first we practice to deceive!"
rosie2731
We all KNEW they used white phosphorus. They now admit they LIED about it when they claimed they did not.
Now they are claiming to have used it as a smokescreen. BOGUS. They were using Phosphrous by their own admittance BEFORE ground troops entered Gaza.
Why would they need a smokescreen?
They were using it in areas of the strip that Israeli troops never entered. Again no tactical reason for a smokescreen. One does not use a smokescreen willy nilly. One uses a smokescreen as one advances on a dug in position.
So when they used it on the UN compound (Only one of may places it used) are they claiming troops were advancing on that compound in order to attack its occupants, thus requiring a smokescreen to shield themselves?
GwNorth wrote:
So when they used it on the UN compound...are they claiming troops were advancing on that compound in order to attack its occupants...?
COMMENT:
Excellent observation, GwNorth. I overlooked this - now, thanks to you, it's obvious - perhaps many others overlooked it as well. This is the sort of thing that makes comments worth reading.
When they used it on the UN compound they said they were returning fire, which means they were using it as an offensive weapon not as a screen.
Also, there is no irony here?
Bombing and burning fellow human beings, mostly civilians, as if there is no God?
Or does God take pleasure in this wanton destruction?
Well wc652,
If you read the Old Testament pretty closely, you will find many instances where Yahweh tells the Israelites to utterly destroy a people that has offended Him. To destroy their villages, their livestock, gardens and trees, to kill everyone down to the last child. In one instance, the Israelites kept a few of the choice cattle to sacrifice to Yahweh and He punished the Israelites severely for breaking his commandment!
Most peoples' gods have evolved with time, but perhaps the Israelis still worship their unchanging, vengeful, cruel and unforgiving god of old, Yahweh, god of war and weather.
Paul Siemering
right on minitrue. how anyone could even tolerate that god, much less worship him, or even have a beer with him, is beyond me. you have his rules of engagement exactly right.
however this is also the diety of Islam and Christianity, so it's not
just an Israeli thing
Yahweh is a sociopath god. He tells his follower to kill his own son then at the last minute says "whoops..just kidding!" He demands that he always be first, he demands tribute and loyalty no matter how badly he shits on you...this is not a deity deserving of followers. The more people cast off the shackles of the Abrahamic religions the more likely we are to progress into a healthier future.
"Some practices COULD BE illegal." "The IDF is holding an investigation concerning ONE SPECIFIC incident."
Hardly an outright admission.
Why should we expect them to admit to war crimes??
What's wrong with using the very clear EVIDENCE??
("Wasn't us, must have been then Eyrannians" Livni, sometime soon)
Why? Their lying is clear and the purpose of it by this one lie, they have manipulated the whole press coverage.
The White phosphorus is a cover (Political smokescreen) for the illegal bombing of civilians and collective punishment... they know that the press would focus on the WP (it is seen on camera from great distances) and now they can debate if they used it legally or not and everything else, all the provable war crimes are forgotten in the heat of this debate. Any complication the press jumps on is a distraction from the other war crimes and as this goes on they will soon even admit (lie again) WP use was an "honest mistake" since this is now what we are debating and playing into the hands of the invaders.