The sixth year of the Iraq war begins this week. The war is now the second-longest in US history - longer than any except Vietnam. So far, 1.6 million US troops have served, more than a third of them for two or more tours of duty. Almost 4,000 US service personnel have been killed, and 60,000 wounded, injured or contracted a serious disease. Many survive with severe multiple injuries ("polytraumas") that in previous wars would have almost certainly ended in death.
One-third of the 780,000 troops discharged so far have been treated at veterans' hospitals and clinics, including 120,000 treated for mental health conditions and 68,000 diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder. This year alone the Department of Veterans Affairs expects to treat 333,000 returning veterans. The majority of these veterans will be eligible to receive lifetime disability compensation - 228,000 have already filed applications.
These statistics lay the foundation for the enormous financial cost of the war. Iraq is already the second-most expensive conflict, after World War II - a war that mobilized 16 million Americans and a massive nationwide war effort.
So far the federal government has spent $600 billion on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (government accounts make it hard to separate the two). However this figure is just the "burn rate" spent on combat operations, such as transportation, equipment, supplementary combat stipends, and paying the 100,000 contractors employed to support the war effort.
That $600 billion figure ignores four major costs. First, there are additional war-related costs buried in places such as the non-Iraq defense budget. That budget has grown by $500 billion cumulatively since the beginning of the war. An estimated one-quarter of that growth is indirectly related to Iraq, including the increased costs of dealing with manpower shortages - recruiting and retaining soldiers and Marines.
The Department of Labor reimburses contractors for insurance, and even pays out benefits if they are injured in a war zone. Every week more "hidden" costs come to light: for example, the Globe reported recently that the largest private contractor in Iraq, KBR, has dodged paying hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes by employing its workers through a shell company in the Cayman Islands.
Second, the $600 billion excludes the cost of providing medical care and disability compensation for veterans. Advances in battlefield medication mean the survival rate in Iraq is much higher than in previous wars: a ratio of seven troops wounded in combat for every death compared to 2.5 in Vietnam and Korea.
We will be paying out disability benefits for decades to come - the peak year for paying WWII benefits was 1993. We pay out $4.3 billion a year in disability to veterans of the first Gulf War, even though that conflict only lasted one month. Given the intensity of combat and the high injury rates, close to half the current service members in Iraq and Afghanistan are expected to qualify for long-term disability compensation.
Third, the $600 billion does not take into account the cost to "reset" the military - to replace equipment and restore personnel to prewar levels of readiness. In a recent survey, over 60 percent of senior military officers said US forces are weaker than five years ago. Partly this is due to deteriorating equipment; vehicles and weaponry are being used up at six to 10 times the peacetime rate, but not being replaced nearly as fast. Tactical aircraft are now 24 years old on average - the oldest since World War II. Congress is outraged that the Air Force awarded a $35 billion contract for refueling tankers to Northrop Grumman instead of Boeing - but no one seems to blink at the huge sum itself.
On the personnel side, it may take decades for the military to recover from the influx of low-quality recruits. In order to meet basic recruiting targets, the military has been forced to lower standards for physical fitness and education, and to turn a blind eye to criminal records.
On top of all this, the cost of the war will be multiplied because we are borrowing all the money needed to pay for it. Instead of belt-tightening and sacrifice, this war has been accompanied by tax cuts for the rich and rising deficits. So we must add to the war cost all the interest we will be paying (much of it to foreign governments) to finance the borrowing binge.
Taken together, the budgetary costs to the federal government are likely to mount to nearly $3 trillion in today's money, (assuming the United States remains in Iraq in reduced capacity through 2017). Of course this still doesn't count costs the government doesn't pay - like the value of a spouse or parent who gives up her job to become a full-time caregiver to a wounded veteran, the money veterans pay to seek private medical care or the loss to our economy from the death and disability of so many young people.
Beyond that, the war has weakened our economy, increased oil prices, and made it more difficult for us to fund road projects, schools, medical research, and other vital needs. Apart from the oil companies and a handful of defense contractors, the war has not stimulated the economy. This is because so much of what we spend in Iraq every month ends up in the pockets of Filipino and Nepali subcontractors in Iraq, and on fuel, laundry, and local housing costs - which have almost no benefit to the US economy.
Perhaps most painful to consider is the opportunity cost: the money spent on the war could have fixed Social Security for the next 75 years or provided health insurance to all American children. As we enter the sixth year of combat, the public is entitled to know what the war is costing. The cash cost of each month we continue in Iraq is $12 billion - but the full cost is easily double that at around $25 billion. For $300 billion a year the question is whether the best use of that money is to keep our troops stationed in Iraq for years to come.
Linda Bilmes, a former assistant secretary of commerce, teaches public finance at the Harvard Kennedy School. She is coauthor of "The Three Trillion Dollar War: The True Cost of the Iraq Conflict."
© Copyright 2008 Globe Newspaper Company
Delicious
Digg
StumbleUpon
Newsvine
Facebook
Google
Yahoo
Technorati
64 Comments so far
Show AllI really wish this was a moderated forum.
The thread hijacks are getting a bit absurd.
Bane Richter railed "The luddites are acting to destroy social security, the environment, health care, education, rights, and countless other quality of life necessities."
And they succeeded. Social Security is for all intents and purposes dead at this point. With the coming depression, there is absolutely no way that the Federal government will be able to meet its Social Security obligations from tax revenues, and with the dollar in a death spiral, there is no way that it will be able to borrow the needed funds either. The final possibility is simply to print the money, but that will only further erode the dollar and leave those on fixed incomes (i.e., social security beneficiaries) with nearly worthless paper. Either way, social security is in critical condition, and it's only a matter of time before the family decides that it's more humane to pull the plug than it is to keep the brain-dead body in a vegetative state.
I just read a previous article claiming the Iraq war (crime) is not the cause of our current financial problems. Thus if anyone is still following this thread, here is related material.
Article:
The War and the Recession
by Dean Baker
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/11/7603/
And a response to this nonsense:
Comment: Is this spin city or what !
Baker: " Naturally, people are looking for an explanation for the cause of the recession, and many have turned to the Iraq War. This view is wrong. The war is a drain on the economy, but it is not the cause of the recession. The recession is due to the collapse of the $8 trillion ($110,000 per homeowner) housing bubble."
This is standard corporate media propaganda found in nearly every newspaper and TV news presentation in this absurd nation !
DUH ! The "credit crisis" was brought about by the Iraq "war" via policies designed to compensate for war spending.
From Nobel prize economist Stiglitz:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23286149-2703,00.html
Stiglitz: " The spending on Iraq was a hidden cause of the current credit crunch because the US central bank responded to the massive financial drain of the war by flooding the American economy with cheap credit."
It could be said that anyone who deliberately obscures the "war" issues is an active participant in the war crimes.
It strikes me now as entirely within reason that the invasion of Iraq with too few soldiers (remember General Shinseki) was a deliberate action to mire the U.S. down and enrich petroleum companies, the MIC and their sundry allies in and out of government. Consider the pirates and killers of the Republican party, consider their greed, their stupidity, their bone rattling, empty-headed religious fanaticism. Consider the armed heist (totally legal) by the government of its citizens, leaving the average American closer to being broke or nearly so. The invasion and occupation of Iraq has turned out to be the greatest mugging in the history of the world. If you feel proud to be a human being today, you need your head examined . . . and your soul.
riverman101
"dingbats with low logics ASSUME i’m for the death penalty… NO WAY!!!"
"the only hopr before destruction is to require all voters to be in the top 1 % of logic intelect.."
Uh, OK. But judging by your writing skills, it seems clear that you are ruling yourself out of the vote...
"abortion is against natural law and nature.. and pain will come… same as dumbing down people to vote for the evil to enslave the world.."
Is this an example of what you consider good logic? Abortion is against natural law? OK, fine, animals do not perform abortions per se...but then again animals do not perform any type of surgery. So I guess what you are advocating is like in the natural world...so, what happens when an animal has children that it cannot support...IT EATS THEM. If that is not the natural world's equivalent to abortion, then I don't know what would be - or do you advocate the eating of newborns?
(Of course, cannibalism a la Soylent Green may be the only solution - we seem headed for a future where humans and bacteria are the only living things left on the planet)
Ralph442; I agree with Siouxrose; Excellent comments.
With the money this Republican/Democrat duopoly has spent on murder and mayhem, every individual in the US could have received health services without paying a dime. If anyone saw the '60 Minutes' segment a few weeks ago about the volunteer weekend hospital in Tennesee, it was a real tear-jerker. People literally begging to be treated. I wonder how many of them were Christian funDUMBentalists believing in George W. Bush as their latter day Saviour?
an additinal major cost is missing in this article. the high oil prices are atleast in part due to the fiasco - if we assume just a 10 dollar premium per barrel, surely it is more, us citizens are spending an extra 200 million a day for oil alone. 1100 dollars a year for a family of 4.
RALPH 442: Excellent posting.
"lizard March 17th, 2008 12:45 am:
Obama didn’t put his hand over his heart
Obama has said Americans need to stop thinking they are better than others.
Obama said it was the mentality of the people that allowed for the Iraq war
Obama’s pastor is an objectionable radical
Obama’s wife obviously has a problem with America
Obama has had contacts with various other radicals
C’mon. You don’t see that there’s a chance he might do some good?"
Your list makes me want to add, "C'mon, don't you see he can't get elected?" I hope he can, lizard, and I much prefer him to Hillary, but your list is exactly the catalog that will send my fearful, independent friends to McCain this fall.
Re Linda Blimes article:
An Eastern teacher once (in effect) said: "If humanity continues to squander money in such ruinous, selfish ways, money can, and will, be withdrawn."
I pondered long on that concept.
Yes of course, I see such obscene squandering, -such as that by the USA leadership on it's imbecilic wars, but I haven't yet got my head around how 'money can be withdrawn'.
But maybe 20th Century history affords us an example of how such a thing might work? - Severe crashes of the economy, wherein money just ends up as a wheelbarrow full of meaningless bits of paper, - similar to the situation which occurred in Germany's Weimar Republic: "Hyperinflation ...Circulation of money rocketed, and soon the Germans discovered their money was worthless."
Iraq: *Got money to burn? GW Bush has. But it's YOUR money he's burning!*
This woman (circa 1923) also had money to burn. Back then, money was then worth *less* than firewood, -so she burnt the money instead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic
This Wiki page gives a good portrait of how a society can break down under mis-rule. Hitler had his own method, whilst "devil's spawn" GW Bush has his own way...
______________
C-D posters: Thanks for some good and thoughtful writings above, - but I can't include some 'rants' from Riverman101 in the accolade list.
Mr Riverman, here's a tip, ( -feel free to ignore it!) ;) If you go round calling C-D people names, such as idiot or 'knucklehead' they will likely not read your writings?
When I am reading through the posts on C-D, if I now find yours, I tend to skip past them, (unread) because I don't like reading emotional rants wherein I or others get called silly names, just because you happen to hold a different viewpoint from us.
Is *respect* a useful concept in human relationships?
If the *non-reading* of your posts is what you seek to achieve, then fine, -you are succeeding in your objective. But if you wish to have your posts read and considered by others, maybe tone down the emotional 'rant' aspect?
And... if you wish to see what *Really Good Writing* looks like, check out pieces from our friend Vox Clamantis!
Here's a brilliant piece entitled "Spiffer" from his blog:
(~ I might wish I could write as well as he!) :::
http://www.voxclamantis.com/pages/spiffer.html
xx
U-C-D
If my math is correct: $3T for the Iraq fiasco works out to $30,000 for each US household (approx. 100M US households.) If instead of investing in war, the country spent $30,000 to install an array of solar collectors on each residence, there would be enough charging capacity to provide every one of them with free electricity with enough excess capacity left over to power an electric commuting vehicle.
Consider how much more secure (not to mention financially stable) our nation would be had we spent the $3 trillion that way.
It's a shame the democrats are incapable of fielding viable candidates. All we get are second rate clowns unworthy of a vote. It's now so bad that blogging, which once provided a means for soothing our wounds, no longer has that power. Among other things, we've lost the ability to recognize and appreciate wit and sarcasm. The war will go on, and the economy will continue to go down. McCain, as president, will see to that.
Gail, Ghawar-Shucks,
I feel silly, sorry Ghawar; I do that too, make a sarcastic post and it gets taken seriously-well, I've not lost my sense of humor and am laughing (at myself) right now!
Great Monday Morning!
May we stop IslamoFascism wherever we find it's creeping insidious presence; in our marinara, on our dog's minds, or just hanging in the air, still, deadly, then creeping closer.
help mr wizrd heeeeeellllllllp!
Not sure if it was mentioned above. In looking at this huge debt the USA is in how many years will it take to pay off? Can the USA stop all fighting some place in the world for the next 10 or 20 years? If not what kind of BANANA republic USA will be left? They start to piss off Russia then think they can start and win another cold war? With what? Afraid the USA is toast even if impeachment is done it is to late. I remember what OBL said in I think it was his second speech. I will not hurt you physically but I will hurt you finacally. I guess he was right and that was pre Afghanistan and Iraq invasions.
"Riverman: Killing babies as a form of control of the population is very natural. It occurs in many species. We are able to do the killing before birth, that is the only difference. Your “logics†are wrong. Even if abortion were as dangerous as you say it is, it is still up to a woman to chose what to do with her body. You seem to not recognize this."
I see it differently lizard. To me Progressives should be on the side of life. Unborn life, anti-war, anti-death penalty, pro health care, etc., To me it is the death culture and greed that have caused decline. I would not end abortion completely and would certainly not criminalize it. Rape, incest, and a serious health risk to the life of a mother are reasons to retain it's legality. Women do have to be the judges in these circumstances. I do not believe that Progressives should support abortion beyond these circumstances, and I personally do not. I believe that it is a mistake for Progressives to do so and I also believe that abortion is mostly responsible for the crippling of the Progressive political agenda. Progressives should separate themselves from radical feminism and return to a less ideological and more reasoned approach. Ideological slavery does not serve the interests of Progressivism.
riverman: I realize you basically use this site to preach you simplistic anti-abortion, anti-feminism, antidemocratic agenda. These rants hardly ever have much to do with the thread of the article. Do you realize how tiresome and shrill your arguments are?
If you do not like abortion don't get one but stop telling others about how many children them should have. We all know that most of the right leaning fundamentalists are against any type of birth-control other then abstinence, which is really no birth-control at all. That would be like saying if you need to loose weight 'stop eating' .... but we must eat. Of course their will be no children without sex .... but people have sex just like they have food.
If simple, cheap, non-harmful and effective birth-control was allowed to be developed abortion rates would drastically drop. So in effect many fundamentalist are indirectly causing more abortions. They are obsessed with sex with most of their so called 'morality' consisting of controlling sex. Basically sex is bad. Look at the Catholics. God could never lower himself to sex, therefor Mary was a virgin and the baby Jesus wasn't produced form this 'messy' thing. In there texts Christ is never married and has no brothers and sisters. The Catholics used to be the dominant anti-abortion crusader but with the pill, Row vs Wade, and the 60's so called sexual revolution the right wing fundamentalists came on board. This gave them some moral base other then their traditional anti sex ravings.
They became righteous 'right- to- lifers' protecting the innocent unborn child. In reality it is easy to champion for someone who doesn't yet exist but once that person is born it's another story. Given their fundamentalist right wing political leanings they would never approve of a socially equitable laws and institutions that would give equal access of healthcare and education to all. If said child were born a socially marginalized neighborhood he would have to fend for himself as best he could. If and when he transgressed the 'legal' system would be waiting there like a vulture to 'protect' society. A few more 'strikes' and he might have a permanent residence (along with the other 3 million) in our gulag for the underprivileged.
Do not these so called 'right-to-lifers' condone and support capital punishment the very institution that put christ to death.
Are not these same 'right to lifers' so quick and gun-ho to support almost any nationalist war that is drummed in their simple little minds by their 'religious' and imperialistic political leaders.
Are they not prepared to hate anyone who has a different name for god other then their own.
Are they not willing to see countless billions of dollars spent on conquering (think enslavement) of weaker countries with rich undeveloped natural resources while not providing proper health and education to our own citizens.
Are they not like the nazis boasting themselves up by putting the disenfranchised down, like the homosexual, the welfare mother, the muslin (instead of the jew), the poor and the drug addicted. These are the things the shock jocks and TV evangelists are always ragging on while they secretly do the bidding of their powerful and wealthy corporate masters.
A personal note: I have been a strict vegetarian for about 40 years. I believe in compassion, and understanding for all. I believe in AHIMSA, Ghand's attitude of harmlessness to all creatures . I believe in the commandment that thou shalt not kill..... But I do not go in to supermarkets, or McDoanld's and scream at people for eating or buying meat. For me it is wrong and I will not do it but for others it is their moral choice, their karma. If and when they are willing to change is up to them. Likewise I do not believe in abortion for me and have chosen not to have children but I have sympathy for people that must practice some family planning in an overpopulated world where the income disparity is so great.
So riverman please look within your own soul and see how you can become a better asset to the human species without your elitist, misogamist, anti choice
rhetoric. Remember what the famous back author James Baldwin said: "What kind of man are you white-man that you need a 'nigger'?"
What kind of men are the right-wing fundamentalists that they need an abortionist for their own moral uplift????
Mundane economic theory eg Benifit cost analysis and opportunity cost theory dictate that it would have been definitely more economical to buy Iraq Oil at then market prices of around $40 US a barrel...As opposed to destroying Iraq and leaving the US economy in ruins eg OIL = $111 US a barrel, real infation 8%, public + private debt 70 Trillion, M3 money supply at 14.5% etc etc...What a major fuckup...
Re: peaceman
Completely right about Chomsky, Zinn, Johnson, et al. But unlike the second world war, who can go up against the U.S. and it's massive arsenal of nuclear weapons? Even an inkling of a challenge to American hegemony would be dealt with in the harshest of terms. I'm afraid that change must come from within the borders of the U.S. by an enlightened and rational citizenry. I doubt though, that I will live long enough to see that day!
Re: Kernel March
I also agree with your point of view. While I don't believe the Clinton years were ideal, at least our military engagement was limited. But the MIC continued to grow under Bill Clinton, universal healthcare got tossed out the window and the stage was set for the War Party to take control. Having said that, I agree that the chances of a third party candidate garnering even 10% of the vote is a longshot, but as 'tailcap' mentioned, it may take another four years of Republicans in power to finally get Americans to wake up to the propaganda they're constantly fed by the right-wing MSM.
Re: tailcap
Right on! The Dims and the Repugs are of the same cloth. The Duopoly is just an elaborate ruse to give the Ameican public a false sense of democracy. What good is democracy if we continue to listen to our enemies for advice?
Obama didn't put his hand over his heart
Obama has said Americans need to stop thinking they are better than others.
Obama said it was the mentality of the people that allowed for the Iraq war
Obama's pastor is an objectionable radical
Obama's wife obviously has a problem with America
Obama has had contacts with various other radicals
C'mon. You don't see that there's a chance he might do some good?
Riverman: Killing babies as a form of control of the population is very natural. It occurs in many species. We are able to do the killing before birth, that is the only difference. Your "logics" are wrong. Even if abortion were as dangerous as you say it is, it is still up to a woman to chose what to do with her body. You seem to not recognize this.
You can say what you like about the Dems being the same as the Repubs, but the fact of the matter is that when Clinton left office we were in the black, and now we are into the red in a big way.
Great article by Linda Bilmes! What a telling piece that she had published in the Globe.
My take is that the wealth of the middle class has been slowly siphoned off the backs of every working American.
We read about the multi-year billion dollar record profits to the oil companies and military contractors, yet our Congress sits idly by.
Hope to see more exposure in the press about the war profiteers, then Americans can vote with their dollars at the pump!
It's a very Adam Smith idea - but hey it works!
A swell idea ~Spencefi~.
I have an idea for reminding the Dumbocrats in Congress about impeachment that will affect their pocketbooks. I don't know why I'm not seeing this advocated everywhere... Whenever they send me a request for money, I return the request with a penny or two taped to it. I tell them I'd have given more money to reelect them, but first I need them to uphold the Constitution and start impeachment proceedings. When they do, they'll get the rest of my contribution. I always put a stamp on the envelope, so at least I'm not costing them postage. If every patriotic Democrat did this, they'd have to do something. They need to know that we are out here. We are not wearing tin hats, we are using our logical, moral, and yes, patriotic brains to come to the conclusion that impeachment is ALWAYS on the table.
The powerlessness of the American people seals our fate. Too many are just not up to the task of making valid decisions in a complex and ever changing world. When their pain becomes too great they will react with emotion and violence further damaging their fates. America's first attempt at democracy appears to be a failure. What a waste...
It's only money. We can print lots of money ___ and we do.
Heckuvajob, George!
"One UK economist warned that the world is now close to a 1930s-like Great Depression, while New York traders said they had never experienced such fear."
"JPMorgan to buy Bear Stearns for $2 a share" down from $150 this time last year. A penny on the dollar...
Gail March 16th, 2008 7:37 pm
arkiteckton,
The Democrats have more amunition than the 380 tonns of high energy explosives that were left behind and unguarded by the military in Iraq for “whomever†to steal. As far as I’m concerned, there is no legitimate excuse on earth for the Democrats to have refused to “impeach†Bush and Cheney!
What those on Capitol Hill refer to as “bipartisanship†could also be construed as incest; the donkeyphant congress we’ve been witnessing over the past several decades.
For the most part - they are two wings of same party!
Understood, though I admit I don't *entirely* understand it. Do you suppose that a lot of it is that it simply became so expensive to get re-elected that Democrats in the House and Senate became slowly but surely more and more corporate friendly, less and less interested in taking on challenging tasks since those might disturb the universe that elects and re-elects them, and less and less responsive to people without money and power?
arkitekton March 16th, 2008 6:53 pm
"Gail: More than enough. I do think it’s interesting, sad but interesting, that the Democrats, with overwhelming ammunition in this regard, don’t relentlessly go after the Republicans on national security, of which leaking classified information is an important subset."
arkiteckton,
The Democrats have more amunition than the 380 tonns of high energy explosives that were left behind and unguarded by the military in Iraq for "whomever" to steal. As far as I'm concerned, there is no legitimate excuse on earth for the Democrats to have refused to "impeach" Bush and Cheney!
What those on Capitol Hill refer to as "bipartisanship" could also be construed as incest; the donkeyphant congress we've been witnessing over the past several decades.
For the most part - they are two wings of same party!
"We ain't seen nothing yet" if the Bush-Cheney bunch launch an attack on Iran.
Costs, deaths, destruction, a military draft in the U.S., war profiteering ... you name it ... all will be aspects of our reality.
We are in very dangerous times.
Food for thought in the articles:
“Will Bush, Cheney attack Iran? When and why?â€
PopulistAmerica.com
Populist Party of America
http://www.populistamerica.com/will_bush_cheney_attack_iran_when_and_why
“Military Draft Needed for War With Iran and Syria?â€
PopulistAmerica.com
Populist Party of America
http://www.populistamerica.com/military_draft_needed_for_war_with_iran_a...
Tailcap__You state that you will not vote for a Dem, much less a Repug. That is your privilege, until the dictatorship is completed. You did not give me an answer on when you expected a 3rd party to be able to take control. That is understandable, as it could be 20-50 years from now. My point is to elect a Dem to stop the bleeding and then go to work on another party if that is the only answer.
You must be very young if you cannot remember that our country was in good shape when the Repugs took over in 2000. No endless war, a budget surplus, 1/2 the debt we now have, respect around the world, constitutional law upheld, government agencies funded, etc. Anyone saying there is no difference is refusing to face facts.
All Dem haters can throw their votes away if they please, but do not complain when McCain and the same criminals finish the country off. What good is your 3rd party then? You all know it would take a revolution to completely change the country back to what it was a century ago, and that might not be so great either.
Let's see if the "your comments are awaiting moderation" comes on again.
Nader, Chomsky, Parenti, Zinn, Vidal, Chalmer's Johnson and the other independent THINKERS are correct when they say we don't have a representative government. We have an oligarchy and military establishment given more and more power over civilians by the soul-less politicians in DC. This country may have to suffer the same fate as Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany before we change course and accept peaceful solutions to simple problems. Only time can tell. The world is tired of the American Bully proscribing about everything under the sun.
"Why? Because the Republicans have been leaking on us for past seven+ years. Have you been pissed-on enough?"
Gail: More than enough. I do think it's interesting, sad but interesting, that the Democrats, with overwhelming ammunition in this regard, don't relentlessly go after the Republicans on national security, of which leaking classified information is an important subset.
arkitekton March 16th, 2008 6:12 pm
"In other words, to bolster his commitment to the endless occupation by asserting that increased attacks will be because of terrorists trying to influence the US election, rather than because violence is still out of control in Iraq, McCain is leaking classified information?"
Why am I not surprised?
arkitekton,
Why? Because the Republicans have been leaking on us for past seven+ years. Have you been pissed-on enough?
mikepeters March 16th, 2008 12:10 pm
“Ghawar†Islamofascism is a hateful ‘neocon’ rascist term used by pigs and the Nazi’s of the Middle East, izrael.
MIKE,
It was a joke! Have you lost your sense of humor?
I did post this on another thread, but am thinking it might not be bad form to post it again, here. It's on McCain's "surprise" trip to Baghdad:
from msnbc.com:
(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23658239/)
*Ahead of the trip, McCain expressed worries that insurgents might try to influence the November general election with increased attacks in Iraq.
"Yes, I worry about it," he said Friday in Springfield, Pennsylvania. "And I know they pay attention, because of the intercepts we have of their communications."*
In other words, to bolster his commitment to the endless occupation by asserting that increased attacks will be because of terrorists trying to influence the US election, rather than because violence is still out of control in Iraq, McCain is leaking classified information?
Why am I not surprised?
Ghawar March 16th, 2008 11:22 am
"But if a single child is saved from the horror of Islamofascism it will have been worth it."
Thanks, Ghawar, I needed that laugh!
tj is right. The occupations are hideously immoral/illegal no matter the agenda, and the agenda of resource control to feed capitalist enterprises are hideously immoral and dysfunctional market activities that are hugely destructive to societies. The damage of the war economy discussed in the article ADDS TO these damages, resulting in something truly astounding and this does not even count the destruction from general "laissez-faire" capitalist plunder. It's all so profound that many progressives have decided to totally reject any idea, policy or organization even remotely affiliated with the right, the elite, the capitalist. This is why we reject the Demok party, and why we are shifting all of our individual exchange/association away from all power centers and toward local communities.
Worrying signs
February retail sales figures weaker than expected
Crude oil prices at all-time high of more than $110
Dollar at record lows against yen and euro
Gold prices soar to $1,000 for first time
Third largest car manufacturer in US announces two-week closure
"Hard-working Americans are concerned," Bush said.
"They are concerned about their families. They are concerned about making their bills."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The harder we work, the more we do without, the more we sell our children into slavery the more our fascist overloards lie to us and make war on the innocent. It's time to quit. This American Nightmare isn't working. Plant a garden, read a book and hug your kids. We can be happy while watching this Colossus of Evil fall of it's own weight.
Kernel March 16th, 2008 2:55 pm
I understand the logic of lesseroftwoevilism I just no longer buy it. To me mainstream Democrats are basically Republicans. I was discussing the Dims refusal to impeach with a Democrat that is in her second marriage. She twice married Republicans. The second one is wealthier than the first. She basically gave me all the Republican talking points I'm sure her husband has drilled into her. She thinks she is independent and thinks for herself. When I brought up torture she said the DimWits couldn't impeach because Bush hadn't broken any domestic laws When I brought up the fact that he had broken domestic laws when he spied on US citizens she changed the subject. She said she would vote for Hillary. When I said that Hillary planned to keep tens of thousands of troops in Iraq and continue the occupation she changed the topic to health care. She said she was concerned with health care and liked Hillary's plan because her mother was ill and getting elderly.
Sounds like a Republican to me. Her real and only concern is money. The war isn't really that important to her. Not impeaching Bush doesn't bother her much. The destruction of our civil liberties won't keep her up at night.
I'm through with Democrats, period. I don't care if a McSame gets elected or not. If he does it could be a blessing in disguise. Maybe the people will finally wake up and stop voting for war mongers. If a Dim gets elected the war will continue under the kinder, gentler face of either a woman or a minority. Mothers will still be losing sons and daughters needlessly and our national wealth will continue to be squandered to enrich a small number of greedy bastards.
The part that really amazes me is how alike the two parties are and how deluded the people are that really think there is much of a difference. As long as people think like you Kernel we will continue the ever rightward march that we in. And people like you will continue to cook like frogs in pot of hot water who refuse to jump out for fear it's things will get worse if they do. Things may indeed get worse before they get better. That price is worth paying. Its about time to quit voting for the status quo candidates and support real progressives. The fact that Democrats refused to back Kucinich speaks volumes for who Democrats really are. They are Pro-war, pro-corporate and pro status quo. If they are not they will not get elected. Screw that! I'd rather not vote at all. And that’s my right like it or not.
I will not vote for either of the Democrats much less a Republican. Dump the Dims, change yourself, join a 3rd party, and help build it up!
It's not enough to say the occupations will result in an average $1000 added annual tax obligation (it could be $2000 or $4000) over the next five decades. Because Americans will just pay it. The capitalists will carefully adjust the economy to enable Americans to pay this bill so business as usual may commence. This includes jobs driven by the war, the VA jobs, the MIC jobs, and the jobs provided by the war profiteers' demands for luxuries and conveniences. Entrepreneurs and venture capitalists lurching at the opportunities to provide "better" battlefield medicine - what a proud pursuit! But it's not. All of the economic activity driven by the occupations is skulduggery. Amercans are forfeiting virtue industry for vice industry. This forfeiture will be kept very well hidden from view. The "public relations" psych ops strategies will be in full force to keep the truth out of the K-12 school texts, out of the university level texts, out of the media and out of the culture.
"For $300 billion a year the question is whether the best use of that money is to keep our troops stationed in Iraq for years to come."
Your heart and remaining-posters'hearts are in the right place but you're asking the wrong question . The question should be , " How much wasted money will be necessary to justifiably break the American Empire ( military ? ) and how much wasted money will be necessary to wake up to civil disobedience the currently-disinterested American citizens ? 300 billion per year or 300 trillion per year ? Whatever it takes to achieve to above goals is worth the expense.
All the number-crunching and hand-wringing is commendable but ineffective with a bully until he/she gets smaked back.
It is worth mentioning that the Federal Reserve discontinued the M3 report back in 2006 thus making it nearly impossible to know how many dollars are out there and hence the value of an inflating currency.
An interesting quick read is at:
http://www.d2z.org/causation.html
Causation: Why the US Dollar
Will Drop to Zero Soon !
one excerpt of interest...no pun intended:
" The War in Iraq, as well as the 130 other nations where the US Government has troops, is breaking the US Government, and earning that institution justifiable ill will all over the world. For economic and karmic ramifications, the US Government should withdraw the troops now. In any event, the economic catastrophe, when it comes will bring the troops home soon regardless, as the bankrupt empire will not have the funds to fuel the tanks. "
Patriot Power
patriot predator power
pump me up
pump me up
pave my way to pleasure towers
paper the walls with greed back green
polish the trophys and the purple hearts
publish the platitudes of patriot pride
print more greenbacks for the bear bankies to hide
pen new slogans like ‘don’t tread on me’
prime the pump for a new pearl harbor gate
pontificate on ‘neoliberal’ and liberate
ply the plebeians with plenty and pie
pray they don’t ever question why
tailcap__What is 300 more billion as long as Haliburton and the weapons manufacturers are getting most of it and helping our economy? Never mind a few deaths here and there,it is a worthy cause.
When do you estimate one of the 3rd parties will be able to get elected and take control? Might it be a good idea to elect a Dim to slow down the destruction while we are waiting?
Critically, foreign held debt is the cudgel held over the heads of the proletariat. Money that you owe yourself -- well, you could just get out your eraser.
Corporate welfare does come with sparse rivulets of trickle down, there is employment to be had, and some war money was the first year of payments for subprime victims.
Nothing throws the working class mob into a rampage more then belt-tightening. "Sacrifice" is simply vomited onto the middle class in defense of profits.
Work in a service job? Notice the fewer hours, hostile management? That's trickle down. Use that blue collar invective to defend yourselves. Wrath needs to be directed at big business, since it's the most dangerous terrorist, domestically and internationally. A monster by the way, that doesn't have a human face. It's the ideas, the mode of operation, the religion, that needs serious remediation. Beat 'em, don't join 'em - the payout will be huge.
The luddites are acting to destroy social security, the environment, health care, education, rights, and countless other quality of life necessities. Therefore, defense spending.
Going along with that set of lofty ideals, we need them tankers! More state of the art flying petroleum trucks, securing our ability to quickly bomb the shit out of anybody who messes with our quest for securing more petroleum.
Looks like the two unlikeliest prophets have turned out to be right. Saddam Hussein's ridiculous pre-invasion assertion that this would be the "mother of all wars" seems less silly now that there are other ways of assessing the damage. The bills for America's latest flirtation with kleptomania are going to be a lot harder to pay now that the government is sinking money into Wall Street bailouts. Some mainstream talking head from the financial world ventured the apocalyptic opinion on Friday that even if an "unthinkable" cascading economic collapse does not swallow us up immediately, we had better get used to being a poorer nation than before. A lot poorer.
Then there was George Bush's prediction that this would be a war "unlike any other." The truth of this was immediately, if not fully, apparent. Most wars have clear objectives. Most are competently waged. Most have an identifiable enemy. That Bush's war was different in these regards was confirmed in the opening months. But today the depth of his clairvoyance is revealed more completely. Most of our enemies are on our own side of the barbed wire. We are at war with our own arrogant rulers, our own predatory bankers, our own fear. The viciousness that in past eras of straightforward piracy was aimed at neighboring kingdoms has now burst inside us like an aneurism.
All those broken soldiers will join their grizzled predecessors on our street corners, together with a new generation of homeless people without jobs or a warm place to piss. Pickings will be poorer than fifty years ago for the dispossessed. There are going to be a lot of desperate, hungry, heavily armed, crazy, angry folks at large, in a huge society with rapidly diminishing resources and no experience with social chaos.
The mother of all wars. A war like no other.
While the M/I/I complex and Big Oil are stealing, raping and killing, their nationalistic shareholding middle class conservatives keep placing Big Business politicians in office to keep meager retirement checks coming and because Big Business criminals have made it synonymous with God and country.
Another Year, Another $300 Billion
by Linda Bilmes
Okay nice job pointing out costs which I believe are seriously underestimated. What is glaringly missing in this article is the conclusion.
Conclusion:
The two-party duopoly's stranglehold on our nation is bankrupting us. The Republicans launched the illegal invasion/war/occupation while the Democrats supported them by funding it. The Dims gave them every dollar they asked for. The Dims could have halted the war by not passing any appropriation bill that contained war funding. A simple majority can do this. Sixty votes are not needed. McSame wants another 100 years of war. Both Hillary and Obama, while making noises about ending the war, plan to keep many thousands of troops in Iraq fighting and dying to continue the dirty work of imperialism (training Iraqis, fighting al Queda, protecting bases and the embassy, enriching contractors, and of course collecting the precious oil). Both parties are morally bankrupt and need to be voted out of office. The sooner this happens the better.
Dump the "opposition party" DimWits, change yourself, consume less, support 3rd parties and help build them up.
The Stiglitz and Blimes estimate of $3 Trillion for the past five years in Iraq is an interesting point of departure.
More at: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/a...
Yet under the insane McCain plan supported by many others (perhaps both parties and Israel) the occupation could last 100 years costing $60 trillion.
With Iraq’s oil reserves estimated at $10 Trillion that means six tax dollars will be expended for every dollar of oil stolen. This becomes crippling public debt to sustain private profit.
But even the Stiglitz and Blimes estimate is limited to direct effects. Arguably, there are many other consequences that we are only beginning to understand or experience.
The economic dominos effect of the mortgage crisis and other financial industry disasters came about through deregulated policies that were allowed for the purpose of pumping up an American economy being drained by deficit war (crime) spending that was compounding existing national debt and mounting trade deficits. No one knows how extensive these problems may be.
The dollar began to decline against the Euro just on the rumor that we were going to invade Iraq and has continued to slide. How many trillions have we lost via a devalued currency ?
Energy prices were increased rather than decreased as a result of the invasion and occupation affecting every aspect of the American economy.
Jobs have been lost to these declines and now the core economy of consumerism is being affected as well as a reduction in tax revenue resulting from a depressed economy.
War-related inflation and stagflation has set in with unknown long term consequences.
And what might be the cost of reparations to Iraq if America is ever held accountable for the death and destruction brought about by our aggression ?
In short this has become a very rapid decline for the American empire with more “blowback†yet to come, all engineered by a mad cabal of neocons and Whitehouse warmongers along with the help of a complicit Congress.
Considering that Big Oil and military industrial profits are at record highs this has become a terrible transfer of wealth from the many to the few !
"Ghawar" Islamofascism is a hateful 'neocon' rascist term used by pigs and the Nazi's of the Middle East, izrael.
Arabs are beautiful.
Keep your Final Solution Ethnic Cleansing ugliness where it belongs. In Mein Kampf.
Have a nice day. Khiam.
There is a lot of money wasted in medical research though. Usually on vivisection.
That's a war against the innocent of a different kind.
This article does even make the effort to cite the costs of the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan for the Iraqi and Afhghan peoples and their nations. Not to mention the rest of the world.
This omission could only have been made intentionally and consciously in order to highlight the costs to the US, hoping to wake up the sleeping US populace.
Such a tactical move is simply obscene.
As long as we ignore the central fact that these huge losses of US lives and treasure are being made in a quest of mass murder in order to control the planet's resources for our personal consumption and comfort, we are willfully in denial, i.e. ignorant.
It is truly sad to see Dr Blimes, who has done such great work with her colleague, Dr Joseph Stiglitz, take this tack.
The immorality of the US occupations does not justify an amoral response. In fact, it demands that the first point should always be that these invasions and occupations are immoral, illegal and counter-productive.
And, in the end, you cannot appeal to the "self-interests" of a nation (the US) that is so morally de-based and corrupt. Our ongoing denial of truth, morality and our history has made it impossible to recognize our most simple and direct self-interests.
As correct and necessary as Dr Blimes' numbers are, her ammoral approach negates any hope for changing them.
But if a single child is saved from the horror of Islamofascism it will have been worth it.
p.s.
And the estimated $2 Trillion debt to take care of these unfortunate wounded soldiers after they return will gladly be paid by future generations. They'll be more than eager to step-up to the plate and lavish government leaders with their hard-earned earned money so the elite can continue on their merry course of destruction and confiscation.
"Congress is outraged that the Air Force awarded a $35 billion contract for refueling tankers to Northrop Grumman instead of Boeing - but no one seems to blink at the huge sum itself."
Congress is outraged? Why would congress be outraged after shipping millions of jobs out this country over the last seven+ years? Hell, this contract will only destroy the lives of about 20,000-50,000 more U.S. citizens while the taxpayers footing the bill continue to live in a semi-comatose state in front of their plasma TVs.
No problem Congress! Most of the people in this country won't even take notice that you've screwed them again with corporate-friendly legislation. Relax!
So much money being spent on strategies of war.
So little money being spent on strategies of peace.
We have the power to change this.
"The art of government consists of taking money from one class of people to give to another," Voltaire. Dubya, Cheney, & Co. have perpetrated one of the greatest scams ever while at the same time, damaging the USA to a greater extent than any other regime that has occupied the White House. It will be many years before our descendants are able to repair the damage done by these sociopathic crooks.
How 'bout that reference to KBR offshoring its profits to avoid taxes. AS Smedley Butler and John Perkins have gone on record to show, there is nothing more treason-worthy than those who profit directly from war, and thus make war FOR profit. This disease has gotten hold of the US political system on far too many levels, an egregious cancer, its only cure is a fully awakened populace... but the arteries that would divest the public of its somnabulism are blocked by said disease. May GRACE answer the prayers of those who ask for justice for all...
We need to penetrate the republican party and influence their decision, their agenda. When we consider the enormous task that is to streer this country into good world citizen. One planet one world, no religion and no borders. I know that I am a dreamer but once the dream has stop then there is the sad reality of people coming home after the war in very bad mental shape. These soldier will occupy our street, homeless and without the proper support from this goverment. Sad, very sad. I am glad I am Canadian, I can always go back.
wexlerwantshearings.com
This site is the one that is calling for the truth, there is no truth coming from bush and cheney, clear skies initiative means tax breaks for the utilities and dump all the mercury into the air they want, as long as the RNC candidates get paid their campaign contributions and kick backs. You all have the morals of REPUBLICAN SENATOR LARRY CRAIG< who gets his jollies in the Minneapolis airports mens rooms, He's the Republican Poster boy why don't you speak about how bush and cheney support his effort to stay in office? you creatures are the lowest outhouse scum in on planet. You can't take your stolen riches with you when God calls on you for your on personal judgement day. God Bless you all, your going to need it
Ralph 442 for president!