US Military Escalation Gets Underway In Pakistan
The US government is considering direct military intervention in the tribal areas of Pakistan, risking an escalated conflict with Pashtun nationalism in the name of crushing al Qaeda. An essay in last week’s Washington Post, a front page story in today’s New York Times and reports from the Real News Network all confirm that a decision to intervene is near. The Times confirms that as many as 50 American personnel, whether special forces or CIA, already operate clandestinely inside the Pakistani border.
Democrats have called no hearings nor raised significant voices of opposition to the unfolding plan. In New Hampshire last night, Sen. Barack Obama repeated his endorsement of unilateral US military intervention in Pakistan if “actionable intelligence” exists. His Democratic rivals did not dissent.
The consequences of the possible escalation are extremely unpredictable. The alleged al-Qaeda militants are embedded in complex tribal networks in a remote mountainous area. Military action could inflict severe casualties and damage to these traditional communities and inflame anti-American sentiment across Muslim Pakistan. It might accelerate the disintegration of the US-backed Musharraf dictatorship which currently possesses nuclear weapons. Musharraf and the Pakistani military have steadfastly opposed direct American intervention for the past five years.
Speculation is rife that US support for the ill-fated return of Benezir Bhutto to Pakistan was based partly on an understanding that she would endorse and legitimize an expanded US presence in her country. If neither the American embassy nor the Musharraf regime could save her from death at a public event, it is unclear how successful American special forces will be in the wilds of South Waziristan.
There is virtually no public discussion of the implications of American support for a military dictatorship that imprisons Pakistani lawyers while harboring anti-US jihadists. Instead of enforcing the existing Leahy Amendment [1997] which bans military assistance to human rights violators, the US has spent approximately $10 billion in five years supporting the Musharraf regime, alienating a majority of Pakistanis, and lending credence to the claims of Muslim extremists. Having contributed to, or at least failing to have prevented Pakistan’s fall into chaos, “senior officials” quoted by the Times now are blaming al-Qaeda for plotting all along to achieve “the big prize, creating chaos in Pakistan itself.”
It is ironic that Democrats like Obama, whose campaign was built around questioning the intelligence justifying the Iraq War would now be arguing for a preventive war in a sovereign country if evidence gathered by intelligence sources is merely “actionable.”
The further irony is that the “war on terrorism” is escalating without meaningful discussion or dissent in the midst of the most open and democratic of American processes, the presidential debates.
Congressional hearings and questioning by the presidential candidates might stall, circumscribe or prevent the escalation. An alternative policy of reducing US military assistance to Pakistan and demanding the full restoration of civil liberties there, while seeking diplomatic de-escalation in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and Palestine is being ignored in the march towards a wider quagmire.
Tom Hayden is a former state senator and leader of Sixties peace, justice and environmental movements. He currently teaches at Pitzer College in Los Angeles. His books include The Port Huron Statement [new edition], Street Wars and The Zapatista Reader.
Oh Yeaah ! Bring ‘em on . The Viet Nam War stated with a handful of advisors . Kosovo , Aphganistan , Iraq …Iran…Pakistan…Saudi Arabia…I’ve given up berating imperialism ; now I’m cheering. Go Blackwater and army recruiters ; there’s still lots of flag-body-wrapping zombies in America to sign up.
Well, we obviouly really didn’t accomplish the ‘mission’ in Iraq, and the war in Afganastan has been another waste of time, lives, money and American credibility, Pakistan may be the key for spreading democracy. Then there is always the opportunity for digging out Osama bin Laden.
This is a dangerous step and will have serious implications not only for the friggin U.S. but for Afghanistan and India as well since a restive and destabilized Pakistan is a nightmare for the neighbours. This death dance between the U.S. and Al Qaeda is endangering the entire world. Osama should just bomb the friggin Whitehouse and be done with it. Hopefully he will spare the rest of us !!
Too much sorrow and insanity. The global chess game continues at the expense of millions of innocent humans. Mercy.
The world is watching the never-ending threats of the US bully and who will be attacked next. The United Nations is worthless in preventing wars, genocide, and imperial takeovers of weaker nations for their resources by powerful nations. Whether it is in Sudan, the Congo, Palestine/Israel, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, and Iraq, these people are literally are on their own. Unlike wars of the past where alliances were honored and countries united by fighting the aggressor nation/s, vulnerable sovereignties like Iraq have to go it alone. I admire the brave Iraqi resistance fighters taking on the biggest military force in the history of the world. They’ve paid a steep price for defending their “homeland” from the destructive killing machine of the United States.
Pakistan may just be our own Waterloo if we wage war against them. Remember one thing Tom, from our childhood days in the school playground when the classroom bully kept provoking us while the other kids watched and we were so scared and intimidated because we knew he’d beat the heck out of us but we kept backing up while he verbally harrassed us (as the other kids watched) untill finally, we could’nt back up anymore as our backs were against the wall and there was no place to go but forward, right for the bully’s jugular, so to speak, and with an instant rush of adrenalin, giving us courage, beat the crap out of him, surprising the bully, the crowd, and ourselves. In fact, the punk offered to buy me a carton of milk in the school cafeteria the next day. I declined his offer. I apologized for giving him a black eye, and said we can be friends, but if he ever bothered me again, which he didn’t, or if he harrassed the weaker kids as was his habit, then I would intervene on their behalf and double his black eyes. (his older sister was sure sexy). He changed for the better.
Enough rambling. When national sovereignties are ignored as official policy, we resort to barbarism, with “Madison Avenue” type of reasoning for armed aggressive behavior. Perhaps we need to be “humbled” as Germany and Japan were in WW2. It sure looks like it.
How conveniently ambiguous the phrase “actionable intelligence”; how abused, historically. Obama does not represent change.
Fifty or so advisers–we know all too well what that number actually represented in Southeast Asia and Central America when it was used. We also know what it leads to.
This may be a good move, as it could start another conflict which would last until the election and insure that we will get another Repugnant administration to protect us from evildoers. Since we had to give up smashing Iran, this should work fine.
Somehow I always felt that there might be another big event that would spur the Bu$h administration into another attack elsewhere in the Middle East. A lot of us thought it would be Iran (which of course is still a very probable scenario) But now with talk of intervention into Pakistan, a supposed ally, all hell could break loose. It kind of makes you wonder who was really involved in Bhutto’s assassination. This is very dangerous indeed. Could this be part of a well planned agenda to continue Bu$h’s War on Terror??
Got US Imperialism?
“The consequences of the possible escalation are extremely unpredictable.”
The consequences of this escalation (the intervention began some time ago when the US and Pakistan, primarily through the CIA and ISI — but also with uniformed military special forces — cooperated in the destabilization of the former Soviet-puppet Afghan government by creating the mujahadeen movement in the 1980s) are absolutely predictible: just look at Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine for starters.
Cosmicharlie,
You never can tell.
I don’t think the US has the resources available for an invasion, but the CIA might be wanting to remove Musharraf carefully, so as not to let the nukes fall into the wrong hands. Removing Musharraf is seen as a way to calm the country down; but I expect the public will smell the rat and come to blame the US for interfering again in the affairs of a sovereign nation.
“It is ironic that Democrats like Obama, whose campaign was built around questioning the intelligence justifying the Iraq War would now be arguing for a preventive war in a sovereign country if evidence gathered by intelligence sources is merely “actionable.””
Yes, ironic. It would be even more ironic if it took an Obama to finish the job started by Bush–namely, bringing the empire to its knees.
I’m stunned to hear Tom Hayden, of all people, describe these sham “debates” as the “most open and democratic of American processes.” C’mon Tom … there MUST be a better way to make the point.
The MSM is now gushing about “hope” (which has become just another four-letter word) and the defeat of the “politics of fear” (check out Charlie Rose’s nauseating caucus night coverage). But the fact is that all the candidates are unwilling to challenge the GWOT because they know that if all else fails, the fear and loathing card can be counted on every time.
Perhaps Musharraf might see the U.S. as his only way to stay in power (or alive) and be convinced he needs to ‘invite’ the U.S. in to help stabilize Pakistan, or least thats the lie given to the MSM to disribute.
What an infinate blood and treasure pit lies inside the Beltway.
Moderating me again?..OK CD…Bye Bye….Gutless bastards!
What strange bed-fellows these two countries (the US & Pakistan) are!? A military dictatorship in possession of nuclear weapons; with known cells of extremists thriving along the Pakistani/Afghani border; a major civil and human rights violator; etc…
And here’s the US subsidizing them with billions of dollars yearly.
This is an ally?
Go figure…
“defense” contractors and their shareholders are drooling again.
Leave it to Bu$h the inferior and his diplomatic geniuses to determine that the one thing Pakistan needs is more military personnel, especially a competitive force to the existing military dictatorship.
If Musharif lets the US in, his military will literally kill him. End of story.
And Barack needs to be exposed to the blow back of his words about attacking Pakistan. This just makes him another Bush lite, just like Clinton. Jeez! What a mess!
Heavyrunner wrote:
Not only are Bush and Cheney evil, they are idiots. Yes, Cheney too. Their policies are destroying our country.
The U.S. will never dominate Central Asia. It isn’t going to happen, period, and the attempts to do so will only result in tragedy and sorrow for our nation and people.
They’ve already lost. China has a pipeline to transport oil from the Caspian Basin, and so does Russia.
Trying to get a secure pipeline through the rugged and impenetrable geography of the big mountains of south Central Asia is an unparalleled boondoggle. And that is the real motivation, by the way, for the Reichstag fire attacks of 9/11/2001 so the U.S. Army could be employed to implement the idiotic pipe dream of a pipeline through Afghanistan and Pakistan (the tribal areas) to the Arabian Sea so Caspian oil could go to U.S. linked multinational oil conglomerates instead of China and Russia.
Impeach, convict, indict, convict,and imprison these fools.
Do you know that the head of the heroin mafia in Afghanistan is the puppet president Karzai’s brother?
Yes, Halliburton and C.I.A. linked heroin and opium traders are doing great. So in Bush’s warped mind, all these catastrophic blunders are big successes.
For your reading pleasure about how Pakistan got nukes in the first place. There’s a remarkable article “For sale: West’s deadly nuclear secrets” on the front page of the British Times today. Very enlightening stuff.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3137695.ece?Submitted=true
mr. hayden , i am glad you are sounding the alarm , i hope that it falls on all the right ears. it is good to know that there are still a few good men , such as yourself and george mcgovern , who still care and have a strong desire to help our nation. thank you.
Tom, there is no such thing as the war on terror, but there is a war on all who oppose US imperilism. May I suggest reading Prof. Michel Choussadovsky’s article of 12/30/07 tittled,
“The Destabilization of Pakistan”. Go to www.globalresearch.ca and read the article, as well as F William Engdahl’s article tittled, “Bhutto’s Assassination’ Who Gains?” as well.
I always knew that Tom Hayden was a complete publicity hound fool, but “the most open and democratic of American processes, the presidential debates”? Hayden has now graduated from imbecile to lunatic. Congratulations!
Everybody understands that we need to control the Middle East oil resources or change our consumerist way of life sooner rather than later.
” …New Hampshire last night, Sen. Barack Obama repeated his endorsement of unilateral US military intervention in Pakistan if “actionable intelligence” exists. His Democratic rivals did not dissent….”
“It is ironic that Democrats like Obama, whose campaign was built around questioning the intelligence justifying the Iraq War would now be arguing for a preventive war in a sovereign country if evidence gathered by intelligence sources is merely “actionable.”
Notice how Hayden’s careless interpretation of Obama’s answer to the question, “What would you do?” — specifically asking what Obama would do if actionable intelligence showed bin Laden to be in Pakistan — first is transformed into a case of “unilateral US military intervention in Pakistan” and then, recklessly, is further transmogrified into a Cheney/GW doctrine of [illegal] “preventive war in a sovereign country” Hayden places words in Obama’s mouth which he never uttered and which ironically serve to further acts of injustice.
Uncorrected, these careless interpretations, these falsehoods, will lay a foundation for more illegal acts by the current regime.
mr. hayden , from the moment dick cheney made his public announcement that barak obama was his eighth cousin ,i smelled a rat. why did cheney make it public knowledge ? and knowing the clandestine nature of those people and their fascination with numbers, i also had to wonder about the number ‘8′,did it have some secret significance ? in any case your revelations concerning obama , hold no element of surprise for me. the war is expanding and escalating , because that was the intention to begin with , of the bush/cheney crime syndicate. i don’t know what we will do about pakistan and i can only suggest that i wish you , would assemble a think-tank of the few good american men and women , who are not part of the scheme of the new world order. i believe you are on the( for lack of a better word) , good side , and i look around and still see the jimmy carters and george mcgovern and a few more men and women that are not so easily bought and don’t owe their allegiance to some secret and evil club. together make your voices heard , because we the people and the media have been gagged and bound.it is a necessity to impeach not a choice. the bush camp ,once upon a time were the builders and the architects , but they have degenerated into being just ‘the executioners’ and the ‘destroyers’
Having the world’s strongest military (at the taxpayers’ expense) doesn’t give a country the right to bomb and kill millions of people for war profiteering.
I guess this will sound like a dumb question, but I’ll ask it anyway. Why is the U.S. allowed to get away with it?
Read Oded Yinons plan for the Middle East, written in 1982. Seems we are following a policy is to destabilize the Middle East and break up the various countries into little pieces as Yinon recommended Israel do. Divide and rule.
Also, read “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing The Realm” by an Israeli Think Tank written in 1996. Richard Perle was credited as being head of ther study group that read the report (Douglas Feith also participated). Same guys who were involved with infamous PNAC report along with fellow neocons, Cheney, Wolfowitz, etc. The IASPS online version has been edited to sanitize it, but legitimate copies are floating around.
Some extracts:
“Work closely with Turkey and Jordan to contain, destabilize, and roll-back some of its most dangerous threats. This implies clean break from the slogan, “comprehensive peace” to a traditional concept of strategy based on balance of power.
“Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening,containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right — as a means of
foiling Syria’s regional ambitions. Jordan has challenged Syria’s regional ambitions recently by suggesting the restoration of the Hashemites in Iraq. This has triggered a Jordanian-Syrian rivalry to which Asad has responded by stepping up efforts to destabilize the Hashemite Kingdom, including using infiltrations. Syria recently signaled that it and Iran might prefer a weak, but barely surviving Saddam, if only to undermine and humiliate Jordan in its efforts to remove Saddam.
King Hussein may have ideas for Israel in bringing its Lebanon problem under control. The predominantly Shia population of southern Lebanon has been tied for centuries to the Shia leadership in Najf, Iraq rather than Iran. Were the Hashemites to control Iraq, they could use
their influence over Najf to help Israel wean the south Lebanese Shia away from Hizballah, Iran, and Syria. Shia retain strong ties to the Hashemites: the Shia venerate foremost the Prophet’s family, the direct descendants of which — and in whose veins the blood of the Prophet flows — is King Hussein”
Although they do not touch on Pakistan, we appear to have adopted Yinons and the IASPS strategy for the entire region, if not the world.
How nice for Israel that our interests have converged, war is expensive, so if we are willing to do it for them, and still give them billions in aid, its a nice deal for them.
As for the nukes, this is a red herring, but playing it up can justify the use of force and regime change. How are they going to deliver nukes to the US anyhow. And if anyone manages to take out a city or 2, we just wipe out any suspects (no trial required). Those people in power do not have a suicide wish.
Frankly, India has more to risk than us, so perhaps thats the plan, destabilize Pakistan and try to induce a nuclear war between India and Pakistan with India making a preventive attack out of fear extremists have control over the nukes. Given that those in power are neo-Malthusians that idea might not be so far-fetched
It will be interesting to see how Pakistan plays out. 2008 may be an interesting year.
Bin Laden was killed by Sheik Mohammed, at least according to Ms. Bhutto in an interview she did with David Frost. It’s funny, but she dropped that bombshell in a matter-of-fact way while answering a question during the interview, and Frost didn’t even blink. Personally, I would have fell out of my chair, had I been in Frost’s position, and then said, after I got back up, “What! Bin Laden was killed? Do you know this for a fact, or are you just guessing? How do you know this? Who told you? Details, please, Ma’am!”
If Sheik did murder Obama, then Obama has been dead for at least 6 years, since Sheik has been in prison since 2002.
Does anybody know when it was that Bush and Co. started saying that they weren’t really all that worried about Obama? I have a memory of Bush saying something like that a while back, but I don’t remember exactly when. Was it before or after 2002?
Hear, hear, prariegirl’s rebuke to Hayden for putting words in Barack Obama’s mouth.
The US cannot occupy Pakistan, but any president would be willing to authorize some kind of military action under some circumstances. Obama said “if we had actionable intelligence” and didn’t explain what that meant. So, it really does not seem to have been meant as an endorsement of anything the US military is about to do.
Hayden is right to worry that it could be spun that way. Where he is wrong is to spin this as his own attack on Obama, who certainly was not “arguing for a preventive war”.
How come Obama only makes audio tapes and no video tapes, by the way? I think he’s dead, and BushCo and the CIA resurrect him when it’s convenient, for the fear factor.
it is not hard to see the attraction that barak obama holds for the old guard of the new world order . URANIUM , the africans own most of easily mined uranium in this world , much like the middle east has the most oil . the powers that be are wanting to deal with the africans in a big big way , barak obama fits the bill as the chosen one to deliver the uranium goods , much as george w. was the chosen one to deliver the oil (and the water,i might add) unless you want to do as the french have done and have a nuke plant for every community , you probably should not risk supporting obama . we never supposed airplanes would be used as weapons , what will they do with nuke plants ?
While we’re in Pakistan, let’s see how much of bin Laden’s money came from the CIA. And while we’re at it, how about the connections between bin Laden, the CIA, the ISI, and 9/11? We really should know more about that, right Tom Hanks?
lillulu ,i noticed in the last year’s tape ,that osama’s nose was much wider and his eyes beadier,deeper set and closer together , than the original osama binladen , they have probably fixed those minor imperfections , by now.
nayoibi, yes, the man impersonating Osama in the video was heavier-set, had a different nose and a fuller face.
lilulu, the US gets away with it because it has the world’s strongest military.
figmentzenguitar , and they are all connected to the carlyle group…one big happy family , the terrorists are their offspring(their children)
yes , america had the world’s largest military…that is why prescott groomed his son to steal it . pakistan is no slouch either , they are packing some big guns and this could truly be called the largest nuclear arms race , the world has ever known , and we can thank bus/cheney for that , too. who can blame iran for having a desire to protect itself and who knows what the chinese are packing…korea seems to be kept at bay at the moment , only because they are investing heaviy in american property and businesses. it is the intention of the new world order to whittle the global population down to 25 million , only.
Of course how you look at Obama’s statement depends on what your definition of the word “actionable” is. Or not. Maybe what really matters is that there’s no way Pakistan is going to attack the US, so why start another disastrous war?
the epicenter of world power is shifting east and away from the western hemisphere , saudi arabia and it’s neighbors have been major players in all the events we have just witnessed and are likely to influence everything from now on out. thanks, in part, to the herculean efforts of the bush/cheney regime , the saudi’s have succeeded in keeping a low profile , laying low and not drawing much attention to themselves , the truth is they are in the starting line and they are very major players .
Either there is something very important that is keeping Washington preoccupied or in-line that we are unaware of, or, the politics of this Nation have become so entangled and corrupt that Congress is frozen in inaction. I suspect the latter but I worry about the former. Something is “up” and we need to dig deeper for answers.
doom n gloom , congress is filled with people who have sworn secret oaths to other allegiances other than just to the united states and all the rest of our representatives are justifiably terrified of them . one who defies the allegiance, knows and pays the penalty . it is going to be a hard row to hoe.. . need a whole lot of dissenters , to move the mountain .
And people call Obama some kind of sollution to this? He is leading the charge into Pakistan. We have to stop him now. Unless you want another I would have invaded Iraq even had I known there were no WMDs a la Kerry in August 2004. Obama was created by the media to be Hillarys air-bag or vise versa. It was a way of ensuring that a dem from the left would have to divide their vote if they went up against the DLC MRs Corporation.
Why more people dont see this is beyond me.
The truth is the U.S. and Pakistan have always been joined at the hip and this latest attempt to ’send in the marines’ has Musharrafs blessing. However, they would rather have this done without the media butting in. They (U.S. and Pakistan) would rather do this under cover and not have it announced in the Times !
The moment its exposed Musharraf and his boys have to pretend they are against it or risk mayhem. As usual MSM analysis is skewed and we all seem to swallow it judging by the posts. We already have 1000’s of troops in Pakistan (not 50 !!!). American drones have been hitting targets within Pakistan using intelligence provided by Pakistan these last few years.
Sibel Edmonds, the former FBI translator who has been under a Bush administration gag order for the past 5 years, has now begun to disclose some of the classified information she has been prohibited from revealing.
In the article, just filed tonight, Edmonds reveals details overheard on wiretaps she translated during her time at the FBI, just after 9/11. Her disclosures to the Times reveal a maze of nuclear black market espionage involving U.S. Defense and State Department officials, that resulted in the sale and propagation of nuclear secrets to Turkish and Israeli interests. In turn, that information was then sold to Pakistan and used by A.Q. Kahn for development of nuclear weapons. The secrets were subsequently proliferated to Iran, Libya, North Korea, and potentially al-Qaeda’s Osama bin Laden, just weeks prior to September 11th, 2001.
In late October, Edmonds had told The BRAD BLOG she was prepared to reveal the information to any major U.S. broadcast media outlet, after feeling that she had exhausted all efforts to see the disturbing information properly investigated by U.S. Government agencies. She had, in fact, spent years in classified interviews with high-ranking officials from the FBI, DoJ, 9/11 Commission and both houses of the U.S. Congress, in hopes of seeing accountability brought concerning the issues of national security, which the DoJ’s own Inspector General had described as “credible,” “serious,” and “warrant[ing] a thorough and careful review by the FBI.”
Despite broken promises for hearings on her case by U.S. Congressman Henry Waxman (D-CA), support from Senators Chuck Grassley (R-IA) and Patrick Leahy (D-MI), and a number of mainstream exposés several years ago detailing aspects of her story before she was willing to break her unprecedented “States Secrets Privilege” gag order, none of the American broadcast media outlets took her up on her offer.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3137695.ece
Certainly looks like US of I, like the many empires of folly of the past, does not know the meaning of withdrawal, or de-escalation, or letting local re-organization take its course. When things are going bad, throw more wasted lives,money and energy at it. Another convenient surge front for the coming presidential elections. The Afghanistan Pakistan area will become a permanent battle ground, and more money for the military machines. Something to do with oil pipelines, surrounding Iran, and making sure the Russians and Chinese keep their hands off the oil. Its got nothing at all to do with terrorism or Al Quid, or the welfare of Pakistan or any other ethnic or religious group, that the US of I may be currently planning to exterminate. Its all about keeping up the power status, military strategic position and Carbon Emissions of the US of I and its cronies. I can see much slaughter and plunder of Pakistan coming in the near future. Bombs away on all the local villages. Level the mountains. Its all going to be a mess anyway, so the US of I wants to make sure that it owns what is left of it. Another gift of a failed state, ripe for invasion.
theytoldyouwhat
I just read the piece. Unfortunately my capacity to give any politician or ’service’ member the benefit of
a doubt is completely exhausted. This mounts up to be worse than anybody could ever imagine. We
are dealing with a conspiracy on behalf of the legislative all over the world. I knew that the Turks are
a very special folk. Remember the ‘incident’ of condemnation of genocide of the Armenian people
through Congress and the reaction of the Turkish government?
What we desperately need is an institution that can take on those cases of Genocide, ‘Blitz Kriege’ (Preemptive Wars), nepotism, corruption and embezzlement world wide. Apparently the ‘United’ Nations are incapable or unwilling (as they are all politicians of course) to come to terms on this burning issue. Nuclear proliferation = Mass Suicide, or can You be sure that the xerox of the xerox of the xerox of the blueprint to build nuclear weapons did not yet fall into some hands equally deluded as the ones in the dark house? The complicity of the US of UnA will make it necessary to smoke out
the whole nest of perpetrators, starting in the 1980ties, when Ronnie the Great couldn’t remember
what the Constitution is all about, much like our ‘hero’ today. So let’s get Sibel Edmonds a public hearing on that matter and make sure she gets a bulletproof helmet and vest. Then we drag all those
who are directly or indirectly responsible for this outrage of conspiracy to profiteer from selling deadly nuclear weapons technology out of their holes in which they must hide by now. As much as I am for
immediate global disarmament, as much I request that those who were involved in those deals get
the death penalty to clean house once and for all. Maybe we should go into Turkey, instead of
Pakistan. Because without the Turks there would not be a nuclear armed Pakistan, North Korea, or
Iran to be suspected to still go for some Fat Boy of their own making. Somebody mentioned “…how
they would deliver…” an A-Bomb without any sophisticated carrier technology. You will find out.
As of now it looks to me that the Bhutto Clan and the bushmeschpoke are brothers in arms. Dealing, stealing, lying, cheating, all the valuable trades of ‘good’ politicians.
There is something in the making in the background, something so unbelievable and ludicrous that it
gets ever more difficult to voice concern or dissent. What are we going to do about all this? Just sitting
in disbelief witnessing the end of ‘civilized’ days?
I believe all this is way too much for one single human mind. No comprehension possible, as those
people don’t know family, friend and neighbors when it comes to get to the dough, even if civilization
will go down the drain.
Time out.
mr. hayden , why would anyone back a candidate that the evil dick cheney had already laid claim and declared was of his ‘blood’ ? i guess people think that is no big deal,but ‘blood’ is a big deal to those inbred degenerate ghouls i know that it is. eighth cousin , the number 8 , house of death ,ruled by by the planet pluto, lord of the underworld . pluto the god of plutonium , uranium,death, destruction and nuclear power , etc..8,. it was no accident that cheney claimed obama as his “8th” cousin. maybe you and i are among only a handful of humans , that know the true nature and the cryptic talk of these beasts. i may be mistaken , but i thought i could read the spaces between your words and i think i know that you know……. what can be done… ?
my apologies, mr. hayden, i think i am grasping at straws.i know that everything dick cheney says is calculated and means something.the number 8 is a symbol of infinity of resurrection and is also the number attributed to pluto and plutonium and nuclear power.i know 8th cousin means something cryptic , but i would have to do a whole lot more research to even make a guess that had any weight to it . still , i almost liked obama until i heard he had drops of cheney blood in him and that he was in favor of nuclear plants . i know alot of people including some french people think that it is clean and safe.but i agree with the nuclear physicist that proclaimed it amounted to the single most insane thing man has ever done. i am old school and prefer my power solar, wind and tidal,unfettered , unfiltered,straight-up as it was intended.
they can’t even harness oil into a stupid tanker in a way where it would be spill-proof and dump-proof ,they are still spilling it all over the ocean, anyone who thinks nuclear power will always remain harnessed,is too much a fool ,to live .
Tom and Kerry were no-more ‘real’ as ‘leaders’ back in Port Huron or Detroit than they are-today…I knew them Then, and I sincerely hope others know them by NOW.
Be very-careful Whom you adopt as a ‘leader’/Opinion-setter…”know them by their Fruits”, only.
Tom&Kerry screwed-us once, and they’ll happily/profitably screw-us again.
“Quo Bono”, Tom?…you pissant hanger-on.
Further evidence that a vote for Obama is a vote for “change”!!!!!
If you want the keys to the castle in this country you have to pledge fealty to the twin towers of militarism and corporatism. All hail the anointed change-agents! God bless, Amurikkan democracy
judging them by their fruits , is what i’m talking about , too. even back in the day , while kerry was anti-vietnam , he still had his eye on the ladder and was a piss-ant whiner and a skull and bones , skullduggery . tom hayden(george mc govern), has not produced the toxic, genetically altered fruit of their contemporaries. unless tom hayden has secretly been teaching his students fascism , and i just don’t know it .
Militarism is what social systems based on profit and exploitation do when they have fucked up or are resolutely ignoring the real problems. Militarism puts a finger in the dike of consequences coming back at the profiteers/exploiters, and makes the system seem to work “just a little while longer.” It is war with reality, and nobody ever wins that. America is still mentally living in the colonial age—trouble is, nobody else in the world is still there, and nobody has any intention of being America’s shoe-shine boys and gas-pump attendants any longer. So how many thousands of our world-ignorant children are we going to waste, how many other countries are going to suffer like Iraqistan, before we learn? THIS IS EXACTLY WHY KUCINICH IS THE ONLY ONE POINTING A TRUE WAY OUT, and that in turn is why he is totally excluded. The last thing the colonial profit mentality wants anybody to know is that there IS another way….
It’s going to be the same old sorry way of fighting a clandestine organization whose roots go so deep they can’t be found by an Army let alone stamped completely out. That will never yield any results but another f…..up mess we can thank Bush and company for. It would be nice if our leaders were bright enough to find their way out of the wet paper bag they are stuck in. I don’t know if this ‘nation building’ crap was Bush’s idea or some other neocon fascist. But let’s face it, it’s not working!!!!! You can’t change people in the regions bad habits or centuries of tribal rule. They like it the way it is. So we have another war that’s going to be a complete waste of time and still more billions of borrowed money. I will be so glad when this kindergarten mentality gets out of the White House and we have a President with a brain.
First of all, the two-party system is a doomed sham. If you haven’t got it by now, you’ll never do. The two are the sole parties of the American imperialistic regime. Got that?
Second, the US is the number one rogue regime in the world. I have a hard time naming a country that comes close next. The US does what the US is.
There is, however, a bright side in the scenario of the US attacking Pakistan, which is, it may bring democracy to that country as an unintended consequence. If the US attacks Pakistan, Musharraf the president will be expected to defend his country and fight the invaders. If he fails to do that, he will be doomed by his nation, if he does, Uncle Sam would give him a one-way ticket to hell. Either way the dictator would be gone.
trollw/punches , i think what we are all dealing with is the proverbial “be careful what you wish for , you may get it.” ‘change’ is like the word ‘progressive’ …it can be progressively good , it can be progressively bad , change is not necessarily a good thing , change can also mean , a change for the worse ……………………………
mountaineer , the evil forces are operating on the assumption that there is no such thing as an “innocent ” human.
Hayden/McGovern receive copious-limelight because their ill-considered drivel serves ‘Interests’ diametrically-opposed to their espoused Viewpoints — and only because of the Dissonance-produced (and the much-needed ‘division’ of the Public, resultant and subsequent).
But then, most here ‘know that’…as surely you-do, nayobi…
I don’t know if this ‘nation building’ crap was Bush’s idea or some other neocon fascist.
[Other, but Yes, fascistic — and inclusive of all neo-Libs…]
But let’s face it, it’s not working!!!!!
[Wrong, its working-Brilliantly, and ‘Progresses’ like clockwork…]
You can’t change people in the regions bad habits or centuries of tribal rule. They like it the way it is.
[Nonsense…they crave better, and thus are ‘fodder’/future-’terrorists’…]
So we have another war that’s going to be a complete waste of time and still more billions of borrowed money.
[That ‘borrowing’ is half the real-Intent — with actual-Results and recipients the other-half…]
I will be so glad when this kindergarten mentality gets out of the White House and we have a President with a brain.
[I hope you are VERY-young, then…]
– Click my Name, read the Truth.
ticonderoga writes: “If Sheik did murder Obama, then Obama has been dead for at least 6 years, since Sheik has been in prison since 2002.”
Of course ticonderoga means OSAMA, not Obama.
But in this we see yet another reason why Obama can’t win the White House. I mean, in addition to the fact that he’ll lose the entire (and grotesquely overrepresented) South. And that is that your typical decorticated American voter will go to the polls and ask how that terrorist ever got on the ballot. Then (s)he’ll mutter: “Rypical of the Democrats to nominate a terrorist”–and vote for the Republican.
Great article as usual Tom. Since you wrote it, there have been new developments off the shore of Iran…in alleged international water…Your next title might be “The Gulf of Tonkin Revisited”. Looks like Amerika is about to be scammed into another bloodbath with Mr. Amadinijad. Nice timing so the Republican neocons can break out the boogey men and tell us to “be afwaid…be vewy afwaid!!” Looks like their best hope for a win in ‘08. Keep up the good fight.
chunga , has shown me the error of my way. obama is lynne cheney’s cousin…still too close for comfort , for me.
Obama, Osama, or George, or any of the leading candidates, they all seek military solutions. The military is good at one thing — blowing things up, not solving problems. None of the leading candidates get this.
this last post , i will tell you..i attended quite a few parties with tom hayden ,jane fonda , abby hoffman , allen ginsberg and i could go on with the guest list….but the bottom line is this…..jane fonda is a rich mogul , but i know she hates what is going down and she hates all things bush , she is quiet because of the same reason all are quiet , fear , she had been warned and i guess she still enjoys living.THERE ARE THOSE THAT ARE COMPLICIT IN THE NEW WORLD ORDER SCHEMES AND THERE ARE THOSE THAT ARE QUIET , BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT ‘THE ENEMY’ IS ABOUT AND THEY ARE FRIGHTENED….i think tom hayden and george mcgovern , both belong in the latter group.
I think continuing to refer to the war as a mistake or as a failure, is to miss the point, and put ourselves in a position of weakness.
By saying the war is a mistake or failure, we assume that that what we are dong there is attempting to spreading democracy and freedom, or some other line we’ve been fed.
We are there to consolidate recourses, and redistribute the wealth of America and Iraq from the many to the few…And it is happening marvelously.
“By saying the war is a mistake or failure, we assume that that what we are dong there is…And it is happening marvelously”
Ain’t it, though. There have been few ‘mistakes or failures’ since JDR’s-time and throughout all-Wars, since [or Prior…Click my Name].
And, we are led to make a LOT of ‘false-assumptions’…
The ‘mistake’ is entirely on our-side, trying to apply ’sense’ to the conjoined actions/Interests driving our Country (and its ‘real’ or ‘revolutionary’ so-called Leaders).
Iraq, Viet Nam, and Iran/Israel&Afghanistan [since-Carter, not ‘Charlie’] has gone VERY very well for these assholes-in-charge, believe-me. And they are just-now ‘gathering speed’…[and you ‘can’t stay Neutral on a speeding-train”, can you?].
Enjoy the ride…!
“…jane fonda is a rich mogul , but i know she hates what is going down and she hates all things bush…”
Yeah, I once saw her ‘going down’ on something, also…but face-it, regardless the fun of name-dropping, Fonda, Hayden, and the-rest have deliberately-or-inadvertanly done a LOT of “damage to Our cause” — by thoroughly-alienating all those multitudes we NEED to oppose the sort of thing ‘Bush brought’ in-Spades (but which have grown since the 1800’s)…
Rebel Farmer,
The article you posted from the Times Online is highly disturbing. I fear there’s going to be a time soon that Bush’s mushroom cloud wishes will come true.
*sigh*
I wish the entire world would go on strike.. stop work, stop buying, get out in the streets and make a lot of noise. At this point what else can the little people do? I wish for the soldiers to mutiny.. I wish for the rest of us to do the same.
It seems that even me in my little day job is in some way contributing to this escalation. I feel personally responsible, which is more than I can say for our murdering, double-dealing and treasonous “leaders”.