Presidential Hopeful Pushes Impeachment At Dartmouth Forum
Hanover, NH - A month ago, a Channel 3 News poll found Vermonters favor the impeachment of the president and vice president by a margin of nearly two to one.
Monday night, the leader of that initiative in Congress spoke at Dartmouth. Rep. Dennis Kucinich, a Democrat from Ohio, is running for president. But the forum in Hanover, N.H., was not just getting into the White House — it was about getting the current occupant out.
“Our constitution is in trouble,” Kucinich said. “Are we supposed to wait for George Bush and Dick Cheney to attack Iran before we take action? We can’t wait. They’re already rattling the sabers of war against another nation. They lied to get us into a war against Iraq. They’re lying to push us into war with Iran. Why should we wait?”
Kucinich has sponsored two resolutions in Congress to impeach Vice President Dick Cheney: H. Res. 333 and H. Res. 799. He said he’s drafting an extended version relating to President Bush. It’s an issue that has divided Democrats. But more than a hundred people who gathered for the forum were on his side.
“There’s slowly a building groundswell of citizens crying for impeachment,” said Dan DeWalt, a Newfane selectman who led the initiative to get impeachment on the Town Meeting Day ballot in dozens of towns across Vermont. “What we’re trying to do here tonight is get the folks who come here who are skeptical to change their minds; and get the folks to come here who believe in it to call their congressmen. Because ultimately, the only people who can impeach are the House of Representatives in Washington, DC.”
But the House has no plans to do that. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat from California, said the issue is “off the table.” And Rep. Peter Welch, a Democrat from Vermont, said taking up impeachment would be counterproductive.
“As a tactic, it will unite the Republicans and divide the Democrats,” Welch said. “We saw that last week when Representative Kucinich brought his motion up on impeachment and all of the Republicans voted for it. They’d rather debate impeachment than the war, the economy, or children’s health care.”
But impeachment advocates criticized congressional Democrats for their stance.
“If Congressman Welch were working to bring war to an end, if Democrats were willing to cut off funding for the war, or actually had a game plan that would succeed in the next year, he might have a point,” DeWalt said.
© 2007 WCAX News
D.K.
How is he not the favorite?
It’s excusable for people to not know who he is (in light of the MSM’s effort to make him invisible)…
But to be aware of him, and still think that Hillary’Obama’Edwards is a better vote because it gives the Dems a better chance to win the office is:
A) compliant, and maintains the status quo.
and
B) Lacking independent thought.
Feel free to continue the list….
Good point Freedumb. I was wondering why the word Kucinich is taboo on “democrat” site dailykos. Pathetic.
Let’s hope Kucinich keeps picking up steam. The people NEED him. Period. End of story.
http://www.kucinich.us
Even though he is right and is in lockstep with the majority sentiments of the people he wishes to serve in the White House, DK has been successully sold and is viewed as a vanity candidate — not a serious candidate.
I think it’s just another remarkable example of the primary voters being swayed by the superficial packaging of the candidates in MSM election coverage.
Really no other way to explain it. There’s also the superficial element of DK’s physical stature, which reminds people of the disastrous Dukakis. Just another continuation of the nonverbal, cliquish nature of these elections.
I don’t think the UFO thing or the anti-assassination (would not assassinate Osama BinLaden) thing is a serious impediment.
But, hey, we went through this already with Howard Dean in 2004. If the MSM wants to portray you as marginal, you will not win the primary. The “scream” incident was pathetic, but also very instructive. Shame on us if we didn’t learn from it.
Maybe the only way to have an independent voice in the race is a Perot type or Bloomberg type figure who can self-finance and pay his way into the big game as an Independent.
DK as Dem candidate appears to be doomed due to primary voter susceptibility to superficia.
Dennis is one of a handful of US politicians who are not afraid to hold Bush and Cheney accountable for their crimes. And like the abolitionists before the Civil War, they need money. Progressives have some; it’s not all in the hands of the fascists. Let’s all cough up some cash for Dennis and see what he can do.
Are we supposed to wait for Congressional whores to stop taking coroprate payoffs before we take our taxes and our freedoms back? Kucinich is the relief valve for the one or two percent who want real change and still think it will come through the system that was bought and paid for by multinationals before they were born. And if they don’t change tactics with direct confrontation and sabotage, it will be still shilled for by corporate appointed, media annointed candidates after they die.
If you donate money NOW to DK’s campaign it will be DOUBLED due to matching PUblic contributions!!!
:>)
I really don’t get it, I come from Kansas/Missouri where almost everyone is Republican. I am trying to get them to vote Ron Paul in the primary but most just don’t want to vote at all in the primary because they can’t stomach having 4 more years of war (not because of the slaughter of Iraqis, torture, loss of our rights etc., but because of what the war is doing to the economy, talk about self-centered ignorance…) however most of those Republicans will vote either Clinton or Obama in the general election or whomever is the Democratic nominee, Obama seems to be, believe it or not, more popular than Clinton among Republicans in Kansas.
I now work in California and there most people would prefer Kucinich yet they just don’t think he’s electable, so they will vote either Clinton or Obama in the primary just to avoid another Republican President. As a matter of fact almost every Democrat I know throughout the country prefers Kucinich on the issues as well as his perceived incorruptibility and his courage, he’s like Bobby Kennedy , yet they think he can’t be elected, so they will vote Clinton or Obama in the primary.
Kucinich could win the primary if this impeachment thing was put on the table that’s why the Democrats don’t want to impeach not because they love Dick but because they’re scared of Dennis.
It’s time all of us show those people who’s electable and who’s not, vote Kucinich if you’re a registered Democrat and Paul if you’re a registered Republican, this will show them who’s boss, WE THE PEOPLE.
FREEDUMBFIGHTER: How is Dennis not the favorite? One reason. The polls. The last year of the election polls ought to be outlawed. Just think what a difference that would make! What we have is a fixed, horse race where the candidates are hand picked and, in my opinion, the polls contribute to this perdition of our democracy.
Kucinich is the one person in my life I have found to BE ELECTABLE. The garbage, ‘Oh, but he won’t be taken seriously because…, If I thought he could win I’d…., VOTE for Kucinich, donate to Kucinich, listen when he speaks!
Cnn hosting last debate, Kucinich, 6 minutes total, 5 questions total. Then Blitzer, has the audacity to try and cut him off as he is speaking about impeachment, Dennis just kept on, he finally received applause. Does this tell you anything?
Call, email the House, 50 times a day, your Rep. and especially Pelosi, now with H R 799 we have more to keep it ON THE TABLE.
Or don’t vote, which is truly assanine, use your vote, if Kucinich is not on the ballot, quoting someone great on this site or Alternet, I wish I remembered the users name, whomever you are I am giving you the credit and Thanks!, “I have my pencil,
I have it sharpened
I have a shrpener, in case
I will write it in”
It was a way to get us to do the right thing , do not settle, unless your apathy has allowed you to give up. That is an easy thing for many to do. Another thing that is simple, “I have my pencil…..
Kucinich ‘08, as CITIZENS choose who you honestly think should be, not could be President in all the ways we need our President to represent us.
Dennis is the equivalent of Paul Wellstone….I only hope he can pull off a miracle and get the Democratic nomination in the next few months. It also might be a good idea for him to travel only by bus for a while. He is the ONLY Democrat who even has a shot at getting my vote.
Kucinich is not electable because the corporate world controls the Democratic Party, not any nice liberals online at commondreams. It is as simple as that.
Whether or not he ever becomes president, he’s fighting hard against a fascist US. Stop trying to calculate his chances of winning and do what you know is right.
“As a tactic, it will unite the Republicans and divide the Democrats” Welch said
This gets to the core of what’s wrong U.S. politics. Describing the upholding of the constitution as a “tactic” tells me that all parties in the US legislature believe the bush line that the constitution is just a goddamned quaint piece of paper. No wonder the Democrats are happy to continue the occupation, spying, and torture. Do any of you really believe that the next US president will be any different? I think that the next one will be cosmetically different with a different name, different face but will inherit the same powers, will have the same backers, will pursue the same policies.
I think the main difference will be you the “leftist community”. You will fall largely silent. You don’t want the Republicans to “get back in” (as if they are ever out). Take for example Iran. When was it decided that Iran was the “enemy”? I hear much about what is to be “done about Iran”. Who decided that something “had to be done”? It seems, that was decided behind closed doors without public participation, by the two big parties. Meanwhile my sources tell me that the wages of ninety-five percent of you are stagnant while forty plus million of you without healthcare realize that the “invisible hand” of free market economics isn’t quite as useful as a hand up when you are in desperate need.
So “Dennis” is probably the best Democratic candidate, if the US were a democracy where you voted for those who would serve your interests. You know it’s not. “Dennis” will lose of course. (You can see this from the moon) All his support will be folded into the status quo. And we’ve seen this movie before. I wait with baited breath to see whether Dennis supports Hillory or Obama. Then we can look forward to the announcement that the incredibly lucrative contracts to support the Iraqi occupation are far too complicated to bring to term. No fear though, the ninety-five percent of you who’s taxes haven’t been slashed can earn your healthcare by killing other poor people in Iraq or Iran.
It’s not enough to impeach Bush & Cheney. After that, we’d have to start on Congress.
Putting tongue firmly in cheek, I suggest that we give all Congress members 30 days to decide whether they want to stay in office and submit to DAILY drug and alcohol testing for the rest of their terms. It would give those who do 30 days to “clean up their act” and it would give those who don’t 30 days to find funding for a lifestyle that can no longer be financed by the government and corporate teats. In either case, it would most certainly clean up Congress.
Then we could start on the judicial branch and the Pentagon.
And then on all the corporations with which our country does the military/industrial shuffle.
Oh, and jlock123: you have no sense of humor.
Kucinich layed down at the ‘04 DNC and played dead. He’s going to do it again at the ‘08 DNC. The Democrats will run out the clock as they have for the last year and change nothing. The Democrats will vote for nuking Iran (if there’s even a vote) and then insist that you vote for Hillary or Obama to continue the good work. That leaves us with the Question of whether the Bush Crime Family intends to step down. Better than even money says, “No”. That leaves Martial Law and suspension of elections during “the time of Emergency”. Yeah Toto, we ain’t been in Kansas for a long, long time.
It has taken us 50 years to get here. National Security Act of 1947.
Peace.
“Anybody but MSM”
I am full of politics; I hunger for Justice!
As with what lead to DK being dubbed unelectable… just start saying he IS, to anyone and everyone. If you don’t need reasons to discount him, then you don’t need reasons to count him!!
The press and media people are fully aware DK is absoluutely correct. There is the problem, they either fear, or are bought, and they refuse to tell the truth and the average citizen, or vast majority, are unaware of the real truths. The vast minority who read and comment here are just that. ___ The vast minority.
Yes DK stepped aside in 04 because he was a MEMBER of the PARTY! He might be the only one left who still believes in the Democratic Party. He has helped keep peace, impeachment, and unviersal health insurace in the debate. What did he keep in the 04 debate?
How many people have YOU guided to this (or similiar) site?
I’m done voting for the lesser of two evils. I want to vote for a decent person. One who is not owned. I just don’t give a crap anymore we haven’t had a democracy since JFK was murderd. It’s not just about who you vote for. The whole thing is rigged, it’s fixed like a pro wrestling match. Our news services are owned and paid for infomercials, for and by the ruling elite.
Have a good day!
I have a “Dennis Kucinich for President” sign prominently displayed on my truck. Sadly, the most asked question is, “Who the heck is Kuck-in-Chick?”
The tendency for people to vote according to MSM polls is something that I have long recognized, accept as being true, but in my heart have always failed to understand. People say to me, “Oh, you voted for Nader? Why did you waste your vote?” How can we call ourselves a democracy when the prevailing sentiment is that if you don’t vote for the winner you have somehow failed. What is this, an election or a pop quiz? And I always wonder, how long is it going to take for people to realize that every president elected is an absolute incompetent who damages the country more than he serves it. Yes, that includes Bill Clinton my opinion. Indeed, in my heart of hearts I believe it was the repulsion for Bill Clinton’s oral sex in the White House that pushed the country in a more conservative direction in favor of the Repubs. But I know, that’s ancient history now, right? Hmmm…..
I intend to keep my sign on my truck throughout the next failing presidency, or even the one after that, just to be able to say out of spite, “Don’t blame me, I voted for Kuck-in-Chick”
Dennus Kucinich is a courageous leader who is fighting for our Constitution—-our endangered Bill of RIGHTS!
Alas, it says a great deal to me that even progressives on this site mutter and hang their heads saying they KNOW he is the candidate who best represents their stands on the issues of our time, own but….. What does it say about US as a people, that we have the closest thing to a champion asking for our support, and we whine that old refrain….”Yes, but he can’t win….”
Winning isn’t all that this is about, my friends. It’s about making your voices heard. VOTE YOUR HOPES AND DREAMS—we are being offered a chance to do that much. How can the Universe get behind us when we aren’t even willing to fully commit to our own dreams and aspirations? Talk about putting up obstacles. We are our own worst enemey!
If you don’t get behind a man who offers us a chance to unravel the hideous web of violence, deception, greed, and distortions, than you have NO RIGHT to bitch and moan about this godawful state our country and our world. You don’t trust the MSM right? So why then are you willing to believe that he is unelectable? If he is so ridiculous. why do you suppose they are so determined to keep his message from wider decemination? I’ll tell you why. Because he is dangerous, just like Wellstone. He won’t be silenced.
He is shning his LIGHT into the dark corners of this cabal, and their minions in Congress. DO YOU WANT REAL CHANGE OR NOT???????
Let go of your self defeating thoughtforms and start believing again that you DO have power to make change. And stop complaining about the lack of choices….those statements only show how totally you have bought into the propaganda you so despise. WAKE UP!!!
“if you don’t vote for the winner you have somehow failed”
EXCELLENT!!
Yes, most people still do not grasp the concept of “concensus by majority” rule 9i.e. Democracy)
But the DO unsderstand Victory Culture…
Kucinich first
and if the Fakeocrats go corporate (only 100% chance of that)
then Nader
Lesser-evilism is the scare tactic used by our corporate masters to ensure that we only select among their candidates
We will not take our country back as long as we continue to play their game. It’s gone way beyond the Wal-Mart Witch, AIPAC Edwards, OBomba Obama, etc.
We need a revolution !
RESIST !
Don’t give them your soul ! Please stop playing lesser-evilism
Kucinich 2008
Nader 2008 (after the corporate Dems finish marginalizing Dennis)
GO DENNIS! step out on the party and go independent!
ostrogoth; Excellent! Excellent!
starofthesea; Excellent! Excellent!
Left of Left; Absolutely! Very well said.
liberal with an attitude; Never say ‘never’, but unfortunately, he wants to stay in the DP.
Define the word YOU DUSTINCHICAGO? WHO are you asking? Personally, I know af at least 110. If that would multiply by the same ratio, ___ we’d soon be the majority.
I am voting Kucinich in the primary, they way I figure it, if he wins, great, I just gave a big middle finger to the military industrial arms oil complex that wants more war with defenseless third world countries and the rich chickenhawk neo-cons who want to suck our national wealth dry and send it to Zurich, Dubai and Shanghai and destroy the middle class not only in America but around the world.
If he loses than so what, Clinton or Obama will have the nomination and they’re both exactly the same so who cares!
Logically there is no reason not to vote Kucinich in the primary, by voting Kucinich you’ve got everything to gain and nothing to lose!!
How about this for a bumper sticker:
Kucinich–Right the First Time!
If you care anything about rectitude and have any regard left for the US constitution please call your representative in Congress regardless whether he or she is a democrat or republican and berate them for not impeaching Bush and Cheney. The damage done by Bush and Cheney is incalculable. Tell them that one of the major reasons Congress stands at 11% in the polls is that it is not doing its constitutional duty to impeach when the chief executives have so clearly stepped over the line, not once but many, many times. Call Speaker Pelosi’s office too–sorry I don’t have the number, but you can get there through the congressional switchboard.
–Rep. Peter Welch, a Democrat from Vermont, said taking up impeachment would be counterproductive. “As a tactic, it will unite the Republicans and divide the Democrats,” Welch said. “We saw that last week when Representative Kucinich brought his motion up on impeachment and all of the Republicans voted for it. They’d rather debate impeachment than the war, the economy, or children’s health care.”–
Ah, contrare, my friend, “They” would rather discuss the war, the economy, and or children’s health care, than impeachment, because the controversy over the other issues would end once and for all. And why, pray tell, would impeachment divide the Democrats? The American people are sick of this Cheney and Bush, and elected the Democrats to office to clean up the mess!
We are also sick of the second-guessing which is really the line from the Bush Administration game plan. If everyone who wants to bring an end to this criminality in the White House is strategically wrong because they are so naive, then why, just today, has this administration announced the deal to occupy Iraq, just like we said they were planning to do? And further back, where are the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? When Bush and Gore ran for president, why did we the people vote for Gore, if we were so naive, and so wrong about what a Bush presidency would look like? It looks to me like some of the Democratic naysayers should just shut up! . . . and listen to the people and learn for a change.
the thought police is correct in displaying a fasad that we don’t have the human capacity as a country to vote for one who is aligned with everything we want which is what reflects on how we pick someone to represent us as a country and on the whole we are as benevolent as the next guy for reasons why Dennis is our man! I voted for him in the primary and i will do it again and cnn and fox cannot twist my right to my own thinking and I suggest everyone not to let the brainwashers work you but just stand beside the right person. Hillary hasn’t got a chance to Dennis. He’s right and he will be our next president!
Katiedid, I have another bumper sticker in mind:
VOTING FOR THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS ENDS WITH ME! I VOTE KUCINICH!
You know that would work if he is not the Dem Candidate, and we sign him in as an independent.
How about this for a bumper sticker?
~~BUSH SUX~~
Before we dismiss Dennis Kucinich as unelectable, we should think about this. Roughly 45% of Americans polled think that Bush should be held accountable through impeachment. 50% or so polled think that we should get our troops out of Iraq. Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate who goes with the numbers. I believe the numbers numbers are there. The people don’t know this because MSM hammer us with Hillary/Obama/Edwards. That is why they lead in the polls.
When I talk D.K. to others, some laugh. Some just blow me off. I just tell them that if holding Bush accountable and getting our troops out of Iraq is important to them. Then their man is Dennis Kucinich. He is the only one to support both.
OREZ_ENO — Good message. Keep that bumper-sticker and display it proudly. Hopefully more people will recognize the urgent message of “Kuck-in-Chick”.
starofthesea — It’s not the audience of this forum, or others like it, that need awakening. It’s the other 99% of America. I think you’ll agree.
birdflewunder — I couldn’t agree with you more (regarding your last paragraph).
KEM PATRICK; Coyotita; katiedid; and other bumper-sticker enthusiasts — I saw the following bumper-sticker on a small truck heading into Washington on I-66 the other day:
“Give me liberty, or give me death!” — Patrick Henry, 1775
“Don’t tase me, bro!” — Andrew Meyers, 2007
All — Be sure to watch the next “Defending the Constitution Town Hall Meeting with Congressman Dennis Kucinich”, Manchester, NH, Nov. 28th. Link to www.kucinichtv.com at 8PM. It’ll offer a respite from the soft questions and rhetoric that’s sure to be coming from the CNN/YouTube debate in St. Petersburg at the same time.
DONATE to Kucinich NOW, and the money will be doubled! Put your faith in Kucinich. Give your heart to Kucinich. Send money to Kucinich. Go for what’s GOOD. Let’s work together to save America. http://www.dennis4president.com/
Historically, at least, the party that impeaches the President, even seriously considers it, has been ultimately strengthened (1868, 1952, 1974, e.g.) I think the lack of impeachment in Congress HURTS the Dems, whether they know it or not.
I would vote for Kucinich if he ran as an independent and I’m starting to think that I might not vote period. The elections are fixed and I’m just sick of the american’s not caring or giving a dam–driving down the street in their huge SUV’s with their little tiny “support the troops or god bless america”. I always thought it should say “God Help Americans”.
That guy in the photo looks like he’s ready to stomp the venom out of the capitalist beast.
To say that Kucinich is not electable is to sacrifice one’s self to the beast. To support a hierarchy out of fear of it.
Up in Minnesota, I’m wearing my Kucinich hooded sweatshirt everyday. Everyday. I also started networking with friends/family by sending quality articles not found in the msm through email, urging them to forward said articles to more people. I have about 25 people on my list and haven’t recieved one negative response(although I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t read them and/or silently wish I’d stop sending). Nevertheless, I think it’s a good start in spreading knowledge that a lot of people are interested in but are too unmotivated and/or too busy to find. Most of these people have good hearts(like most humans on earth) and would love somebody like kucinich in office, they just need a nudge or two to get them pissed off enough to get involved in the process of change. And the process of change begins with becoming informed (TRULY informed). In addition, I’ve received some informative articles in return from other people on the list, which has been a great plus. keep networking.
Kucinich is very electable if you have the heart to go with your heart. Remember this is a man who refused to sell off a public utility in Cleveland, Ohio to private investors. The reason why the media portrays him as unelectable is because private interest of all sorts are afraid he might bring transparency, ethics, accountability and a fairer distribution of our nations wealth to her citizens. It is a known fact that what you say to yourself is what you believe. So if you say that Mr.kucinich should be our next president, then act on it. I don’t no about all of you but I’m voting for Kucinich without worrying about who might win or lose. If he loses we still could vote in a larger majority of democratic legislators to counter-act the effects of another Neo-con. The protection of our votes is the bigger issue. Unless congress protects everyone’s votes and everyone’s right to vote then it wont matter if Dennis Kucinich wins. Who will protect our right to prove it.
Peace and compassion to all
Everyone volunteer time to the Kucinich campaign. Convince as many of your neighbors as possible to vote Kucinich in the primaries. Make it a grass roots project. Leave the mainstream media out of it. Point your neighbors to various wikipedia articles such as the Fuel efficiency in transportation article. Convince them that we’re only fighting these wars because we’re entrenched in the wrong forms of energy, we’re addicted to petro-fired luxury and convenience, and that by increasing our self-sufficiency, we can take the big decisions out of the hands of these petro-criminals, and start living responsibly.
Oh please, quit infecting your and everyone elses mind with ‘he’s unelectable’. Quit trying to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Kill your TV set / ignore the mainstream media. Just get out there and support Kucinich with all your might. Follow your heart / faith and go for it.
I want to crawl under the table of humanity looking at the country (mine) that wants any of these monkeys except Kucinich for president. Will I feel sorry for them now or when the shit comes down for all this denial, lying, greed and violence? How can you have compassion for people who believe anything the TELEVISION says, no matter how foolish, superficial, useless and proven-flat-false?
Press on oh noble candidate! Your party (and probably this country) is not worthy of your clear vision abd determination. I sincerely hope you at least get to give a speech at the convention in Denver and I don’t care how obscurely they schedule it, will be watching C-Span (did y’all know you can watch C-span on the web?) and cheering every statement you make.
katiedid: YES on the bumper sticker!!! And all the best to the best: Dennis Kucinich.
Every day I get closer to voting for DK. This bouncing around and pandering by the “leading” candidates makes me sick. Dennis is clear and consistent in his message. Even if we don’t convict Bush/Cheney, we owe it to the world to go through the impeachment process. The lies and deception and then the incompetence are so great and unanswered that it has a negative effect on the world opinion of the U.S.
Starofthesea writes:
“Winning isn’t all that this is about, my friends. It’s about making your voices heard. VOTE YOUR HOPES AND DREAMS—we are being offered a chance to do that much.
**How can the Universe get behind us when we aren’t even willing to fully commit to our own dreams and aspirations?** Talk about putting up obstacles. We are our own worst enemy!”
~ A damned good post my friend!
If people don’t have the courage of their convictions, they will likely end up with yet another sordid mess as their next government, ‘another slice of nasty pie’, -such as the present cadaverous crew.
Backbone is needed, along with a healthy dose of inspiration, perspiration, sharing a little cash, and *vision*.
What great things were ever won, or invented, or achieved, by falling over or giving up at the first hurdle?
Maybe take some inspiration from this man Kucinich? He’s not crazy, he’s been in the political game long enough, so he knows full-well the obstacles he faces, (better than anyone here, I would hazard) and yet … he soldiers on regardless.
Like M. L. King, Mandela, Ghandi and so many others, he has the courage and willpower to just *keep on trying*, ~ it takes a BIG man to do that!
It occurs to me that the very least we can do is back this brave guy up to the hilt.
AND… such movements snowball! -the more people being courageous enough to put all their weight behind him, then *still more* will join with the trend. ‘Mighty oaks from little acorns grow’ etc.
________________
Re, bumper stickers and T-shirts, how about: *Vote Kucinich, not a Kuckoo!*
Or,
*Kucinich ain’t kuckoo!*
–summink like that!
The corporate media made the decision to marginalize Kucinich at the start, and their efforts are intensifying the more support he gets. CNN’s last Democratic debate from Nevada infuriated me so much that I sent off a scathing e-mail to them protesting their treatment of Dennis. Wolf Blitzer, Suzanne Malveaux and company were obviously given orders to ignore Dennis if at all possible, even though he got widespread applause each time he was fortunate to have the floor.
Kucinich is the worst nightmare for the Skull and Bones-type folk (Republican and Democratic) who’ve always controlled our government (Ron Paul rightly bashes the Federal Reserve and our flawed monetary system, favorites of the Skull and Boners, and is marginalized in the same fashion).
Maybe Dennis should consider running as a Green or some other party? I know he’s always ruled that out, but he must realize how ardent his supporters are and how necessary his vision is to the well-being of Americans and the rest of the world. The Skull and Boners have rigged the electoral system to virtually exclude any real third party challenge to their rule, so I think that fact might be playing a role in Kucinich’s refusal to become independent (the two major parties already have massive infrastructure, organization and money, something most third parties struggle with).
Again, our media show themselves to be nothing but propagandists for their bosses (the Skull and Boners) and unfortunately, most people are still at the mercy of the corporate media’s shaping of their opinions.
I just called Pelosis office and the secretary answered on the first ring. Everybody is burning up the phone lines I see. I wonder if maybe we are going to know what the Indians feel like? I hope not. The real protectors of Americas were slaughtered by the pilgrims.
I will never be a freegin pilgrim. We certainly, as recorded by our brutal history, have a severe payback coming to us. Bush whack is out there slapping potential opponents in the face. If anyone swings at him, that fights over right there. Then is when America will defend itself. The commander in chief was cold cocked the first 3 seconds. Let’s get this coward sent back somehow before he swings at mike tyson.
It’s way too late to switch parties for this race. It’s not possible folks. Listen to Bernie Sanders on Thom Hartmanns Air America Radio.com. Learn something about the Constitution.
It’s called brunch with Bernie Sanders, every Friday morning for like 5 years. Thom calls him Americas Senator. I completely agree. Find out why. He is one of the two independent party Senators in the U.S. Listen and learn, please. airamericaradio.com
With the exception of one or two negative posts, this has been a WONDERFUL thread of support for a real American Hero. And, yes, he is like Paul Wellstone.
Starofthesea:Possibly one of the most eloquent posts and pitches for D.K. that I have ever read on this site. Thank you.
Someone said something about “preaching to the choir” and I totally agree for the most part. However, some posters on C.D. have had to be gently nudged to see that Dennis Kucinich is the only hope we have. (I would love to see COMarc get on board–at least for this election cycle.)
It’s about heart, courage, integrity, intelligence, and on and on. I listen to him speak from his Soul and with honest passion then find it IMPOSSIBLE to take all the spewing rhetoric from the other candidates seriously. It’s like listening to actors giving speeches by rote with no real substance behind it; an I’ll say WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT ME TO SAY TO GET YOUR VOTE!
The primaries are about voting with your heart, soul, and mind; to do any less is “buying in” to the programming. THIS is the message that needs to be spread along with the name “Kuck-in-Chuck”
Let’s all pledge to get outside the choir box and work as hard for D.K. as he always has for us. Anything else is tantamount to bowing down to the corporate monster.
PLEASE send this man (Who takes NOTHING from corporate America) a $100 pledge that will be doubled. As we all have heard: “Money talks and bullshit walks”. Sad–but true.
While I appreciate and respect the sincere intentions of many of the people posting here, I must register my disagreement. Devoting your time and funds to Kucinich is largely a waste.
Kucinich’s campaign does serve an important purpose in educating the public about impeachment and the anti-war movement. Although he is dismissed as a fringe candidate by the media, Kucinich still gets more attention (and less derision) than Ralph Nader or any Third Party candidate. That he uses that attention to spread progressive ideals is a great thing.
Beyond that, though, Kucinich’s campaign can do very little. He has no chance of becoming the Democratic nominee, period. And, contrary to some of the posts on this thread, he would have no chance even if no polls were taken and even if he received fair treatment by every media outlet.
The Democratic “Party” is merely one of two factions of a corporate behemoth. It’s raison d’etre is to offer voters a kinder, gentler version of neoliberal capitalist/ corporatist hegemony. When the more unburdened and ferocious faction (the Republicans) pushes too far, when the public begans to doubt the whole structure of America’s socioeconomic system and starts entertaining “dangerous thoughts” that maybe there is a viable alternative, when people like Hugo Chavez start to look more and more attractive to more and more Americans, that’s when the Democrats swoop in, assuring the public that all of their anger and frustration is due to the big bad Republicans. Just elect us, say the Democrats, and we’ll make things better. And things do get marginally better, just enough to safely bury those “dangerous thoughts” deep enough so that the Republicans can return and plunder.
The cycle goes on and on and on…
Like it or not, Kucinich is a part of this cycle. I do think that he realizes and agrees with everything I’ve said but is either too afraid to make a permanent break or too much of a politician to give up his Congressional seat. Perhaps I’ll be proved wrong, perhaps he will make a formal break after the primaries. I really hope so.
The point is, Kucinish CANNOT win the Democratic nomination. The corporate masters would never allow it. If he somehow won a majority of delegates, the Democratic Party would probably cease to exist: breaking in two. That would be a good thing as the Kucinich faction could join with Greens and other progressives to build a true Second Party. But it’s not likely to happen no matter how much money or time anyone devotes to the Kuchinich campaign.
Reforming the cycle from within is pointless. We need to break completely with the Corporate Party (both factions) and form our own, genuine SECOND PARTY. It will take time, 10 years at least, for our party to be a major force. And it may fail in the end, but it is worth the effort. A man like Kucinich would be a great inspiration to lead the embryonic phase of this party by running for President as an independent and bringing progressives of all stripes together. I hope all of you encourage him to do so and I hope he decides to do so.
Otherwise, I and many progressives will be lobbying hard for the only other person in America with as much gumption and determination to run a for President as an unabashed progressive and use this campaign to begin forming a true second party. That man is Ralph Nader!.
All I know is that Kucinich is the only person in the entire field who represents my views, and it’s inconceivable that I would support anyone else. Playing winners is sport. Standing behind what you believe is how revolutionary change begins. So, which reality are you in?
“As a tactic, it will unite the Republicans and divide the Democrats,” Welch said.
Good!!!!!
It’s time for a house cleaning in the Democratic Party. Those who support Bush’s policies should be flushed out of the “opposition” camouflage.
The majority want Bush impeached. One reason the majority of politicians don’t reflect the majority of Americans is that the tent of the Democratic Party is too large. It’s currently run by crypto-neocons. If all the neocons got into one party, they could properly lose.
Nader08: I like Ralph too. Although I have been disabled for ten years and not working, I dragged myself out of forced retirement to do legal research for his website on the issue of third party access to the debates in 2000. I have voted for him every time he’s run, and I have defended him against vicious attacks by my progressive friends. I thought he said on Democracy Now a couple of months ago that he was watching Kucinich, and that IF Dennis ran, he might sit this one out. The Dems are not radical enough, but if “the people” demand change, it could happen. Unlikely, but possible. If we mobilized and took away corporate personhood, real thinkers might have a chance to win.
CELEBRITY ANS UN COMMON DREAMS—-Thanks for your kind encouragement. UN-Common Dreams— I finally got off an email to you but it may be in your quarantine center since my email address would look like SPAM.
Nadar2008—Sorry dear, but since you have already decided that Raplh Nader is your choice, it is hard to hear you say that no way, no how can DK get the nomination. EXCUSE ME????
I even get annoyed by progressives who say they’d love to vote for him, but refuse to get behind his candidacy because they’ve been listening to the MSM shills who make them believe “he can’t possibly win,”
Look I voted for your man in 2000, and would have in 2004 but caught the ” We just gotta beat Bush” virus, and voted for Kerry instead. So we fearful desperate Independent voters thought we were to be spared another 4 years of BushCo, only to see Kerry concede prematurely and leave the American voter twisting in the wind.
How many of us felt instinctively that something was terribly wrong with what we had just seen happen? It didn’t take long, following documentation of the work of election protection experts, to have my fears confirmed. Another illegitimate coronation/election had taken place.ANd with the active complicity of Bush’s Skulls and Crossbones “brother”.
Glad you have a candidate you can feel good about supporting. But guess what? So have allot of us and his name is Dennis Kucinich. And you know what? It feels really good to have someone in the race who inspires me. And while I agree with what you say about the controling interests of the current Democratic Party, what are they gonna do—expose how un-Democratic they really are? That would be a good thing! Then they would have no reason for existence.
If we find the people canot take the party back, we’ll talk about starting a new entity, but who says those DLC Blue Dog’s can dictate to the their party’s natural constiuents indefintely?
DK’s stands resonate with people, pure and simple, the traditional base of the Democratic party, not just us left field lefties. Hell, he’d be on top if he got half the media attention any one of the top three get. In fact, he’d be on top if he got half the coverage Fred Thompson gets.
I, for one, plan to express my hopes and dreams for the future of the human family by supportingthe man who’s own dreams seem to resonate closely with my own. And I think many million others, if they ever got to hear him, would as well. Real leaders bring out the best in people. He is so threatening because he actually offers folks a real choice and a chance to recover some hope for the future.
The goal of progressives these days should be nothing less than the destruction of the Democratic party.
The Democratic party actively supports many policies that are the dead opposite of what progressives believe. At best, what progressives get from the Democrats is some happy talk during campaigns when they think they need our votes. Then when they get elected they call us ‘idiot liberals’ and want to get us arrested for loitering if we even dare to get in their sight.
The Democratic party acts as a block on progressive politics. It sucks money and energy away from truly progressive campaigns into the useless black hole that is the Democrats. And the big lie that the Democrats constantly push that they are somehow an opposition manages to suck gullible voters away from progressive candidates into voting for pro-war, pro-corporate candidates who don’t give a damn about any progressive values.
Our first goal should be the utter and complete destruction of the Democratic Party. They need to go find their place on the scrap heap of history alongside the Whig party as parties that completely lost their reason for being.
The entire Democratic machine depends on being able to win. They use the fact that they can win to fundraise, and the Democratic party sycophants want the jobs that come with winning. If they stopped having any chance of wining, this fake opposition party would just implode. Their Republican wannabe candidates would go back to being Republicans, and their fundraising would dry up because who wants to bribe a loser.
And we can do it. If the people who truly want this war to end. Who’ve truly wanted impeachment the last two years. Who don’t want a government of the corporations, by the corporations and for the corporations were to abandon the Democrats and strike out on their own, the Democrats would constantly lose. Taking away even 10% to 15% of the Democratic vote would destroy that party in short order.
Then we could build a real opposition party that represents us.
That’s what we want. Who cares a flip about whether that party is called the Democrats or something else? You ain’t gonna change the Democrats from within because the Democratic Party is not democratic. I like Dennis, but he’s been beating his head against that brick wall for a decade now and all he’s gotten from it is a headache. If anything, the Democrats are far worse today than they were a decade ago. What has all this work to change the Democrats from within accomplished? Nothing! The time has come to destroy the Democratic Party. And we can do it!
Whichever candidates best represents your views,is the candidate you should vote for..I don’t buy the idea that just because you do not think a candidate as a chance you vote for the lesser of two evils.That is not democracy,that is a joke.And sad one at that!One that hurts our country.
I am voting for DK, because I believe he truly represents most what the people want in a president;I believe he as the honesty and the courage to do the right thing in face of the status-qou.
He will do what the majority of the American people want done..Which is to bring our troops home and to seek strength though peace,Universal healthcare and the elimination of NFTA and other so-called free trade agreements.
He is truly the candidate of the average American..Don’t let mainstream pull the same old smoke and mirror thicks..Vote your conscious.
Vote Dennis Kucinuch.
Let America just keep their eyes on Dancing with the stars…The democrats seem to be poised in that direction…maybe some of the millions of refugees who have lost their families and their homes in Iraq would like a time out to watch Americas favorates…I’m so discusted with this party and this populace, who can’t get out to vote, pay attention, or recognize when they are being sold down the river faster, faster than they can say osama obama, or sillary Hillary..
Been with D Kucinich since 2004. worked on his campaign in Santa fe NM, and I’m still workin’.. what else can I do..
CoMarc—I agree that what is called the Democratic Party is anything but. I know you have no time for it, and neither do I in its current incarnation. What’s in a name? We who support DK, I think, for the most part, do so IN SPITE of the fact that there is a D after his name.
We ARE attempting to re-define or recover the Democratic Party, not by mealy-mouth incremental reforms, but by revolutionary upheaval that DK represents. He exposes their lying ways, their corporate/military allegiances everytime he gets up in those debates and speaks the Truth.
Don’t under-estimate the power of TRUTH— and what it can inspire in the human spirit. We are all very disenchanted witnessing the Single party with two right wings circling us like vultures. So let’s take our party back, if we can. It’s been taken away from the real base, and it can be returned, and those within who don’t likewhat it can become can just change the letter after their name to R, which it might as well be anyway.
Saying Dennis can’t win is not being fooled by polls you refuse to believe. Its an honest look at the rules and structure of the Democratic Presidential nominating process.
Money … one of the first lessons I learned in politics was when I contacted a secretary of states office to check on rules on Democratic Presidential nominations. I was immediately told to go talk to the Democrats as they run that show. They could use any rules they wanted to use as long as they stayed under Federal limits. So, what do the Democrats choose to do? They choose to open their Presidential nominating process as wide open to big money as they possibly can make it. The Democrats could choose to use ‘clean elections’ rules like you see in say Vermont. They deliberately don’t. And by doing so they tilt the playing field strongly away from a grassroots candidate like Kucinich and towards the candidates back by corporate money.
Calendar … add to this the calendar. This thing is going to go down so fast your head will spin. It will likely be over by mid Feb, and if not by then, certainly by a week or two into March. You are going to see big state after big state come up on the calendar fast and furious. And this favors the candidates backed by big money because they just turn on and off big ad campaigns in the states as they come up. This seriously tilts the field against a grassroots candidate.
SuperDelegates … about 800 of the 4000 delegates who will come here to Denver next year won’t be elected by any primary or caucus. Instead, these spots are reserved for the Democratic party machine. This basically means that Kucinich needs 60% of the vote to win, while Hillary only needs 40% as you know these representative of the political machine will support Hillary over Kucinich. That’s Democratic party democracy for you, rigging the rules such that anyone challenging the power structure needs 60% to win.
For a comparison, look back at the Dean campaign 4 years ago. At this time 4 years ago, Dean had a rather solid looking grassroots campaign going. He had much stronger support than anything Kucinich has shown yet, he had grassroots supporters and organizers all over the place, and was raising some pretty serious money from small donations over the web. 4 years ago it looked like Dean might just sail to the nomination riding a new political equation that would overturn the power structure of the Democratic Party.
So, what happened? The Democratic power structure and the media double-teamed Dean and whacked him. In the weeks before Iowa, suddenly all the corporate media was running “can Dean win in November?” stories. And simultaneously Kerry started flooding the airwaves with his corporate money running ads suggesting the Republicans could never attack him because he was a vet (how that work out?). Meanwhile, the Democratic machine politicians got their machine in gear to back Kerry and kill of Dean’s campaign.
Dean got hit with the same things listen above. The combination of big money, a hostile corporate media, and the campaign calendar took him from front-runner to defeated candidate so fast his head was spinning. The combination of constant hostile media stories and Kerry’s being able to flood the airwaves with misleading commercials sent Dean down to defeat. And then the campaign calendar hit him hard and fast. While he was thinking about trying to recover from that first blow, the big states started coming up. Kerry had the money to flood them with ads, Dean didn’t. Dean couldn’t counter the combination of corporate media and corporate money in a Democratic process that favors both.
And this time it will be even worse. The calendar is even more compressed and front-loaded than last time. This thing is going to go down so fast your head is going to be spinning. It won’t seem like you have time to take a breath between the Iowa caucuses and Hillary being named the nominee.
And that’s what happened to a Dean campaign that was much, much stronger than anything Kucinich has ever shown. Kucinich doesn’t have anywhere near Dean’s fundraising. Dean raised a lot of his money from the same sort of small donations Dennis should be getting. But Kucinich doesn’t show anywhere near that strength. And Kucinich doesn’t show anywhere near the level of grassroots support that Dean was showing 4 years ago with his meetup groups and organizing.
And Dean still got crushed by the same Democratic Party machine. Dennis doesn’t stand a chance. This thing is going to start going down in a month, and its going to be over fast, and its already obvious that Kucinich is beaten.
I wish that wasn’t true. But that’s the nature of him trying to play in a game that’s rigged against him. The powers that run the Democratic Party have put these rules and systems in place ever since McGovern and Carter. The whole thing is designed to make sure that another McGovern or Carter can never, ever win the Democratic nomination again.
I’d love to be surprised and see Kucinich as the nominee. But I wouldn’t be a nickel on it happening.
Nader o8 and Co marc,
Get some help you people. Nader is great, I agree. Have you by any chance noticed however, HE ISN’T RUNNING. I’m not a Democrat, but how the hell are you going to help by blowing off the only SANE candidate in the race. Who are you going to vote for, Karl Rove?
I think there’s no one more honest than Dennis K. and I agree with him on almost everything, including impeachment. However, I cannot support his stand on illegal immigration. He won’t even acknowledge that the people who sneak over the border are “illegal” and he uses the cliche that “no people are illegal.” That is disingenuous to me and is no way to address this problem. He wants to grant blanket amnesty and continue the influx of undocumented workers and others. I prefer Ron Paul’s stance on this, which is far more based in reality and expresses the desire to recognize the needs and preferences of U.S. citizens, not the citizens from other countries, whose governments will not create programs that will stimulate jobs and economies, but instead push out their underclass.
whenever I see someone’s post implying that they would only vote for whomever was “electable” I could turn blue and faint. What on earth are you eating? Please! Vote for the candidate YOU want to be our leader and our example to the rest of the world.Vote for Kuchinch if you agree that he is honest and motivated by truth.I just cannot believe any of you are so dull and compliant to big government that you refuse to do what is right.
What we could all do is insist that DK and RP run together, then we would really win!
COMarc
stop saying Dennis can’t win.It’s only true if everyone keeps saying it over and over. like they been saying hillary is the front runner for 3 years. the people need someone who can represent them. so we need Dennis.
these ae not ordinary times. we need to overthrow the junta and we really really mean it. let’s all stop saying he can’t win and start saying he MUST win. forget politics.
remember the Mets. ya gotta believe!
by the way, I agree to disagree about DK’s stance on immigration, but RP would explain it to him.
When anyone tells me that Dennis Kucinich is unelectable my reply is: GEORGE BUSH IS IMMUTABLE PROOF THAT ANYONE CAN BECOME PRESIDENT!
So COMarc has explained why the democratic machine will never allow Dennis to “win”. He sounds very well-informed, unfortunately.
For these same reasons, would you say that Ron Paul cannot “win” the Republican nomination? I ask because the opening may be greater since republican voters don’t seem to be getting behind any of the jerks who are currently running (who are on tomorrow night in a debate by the way).
I prefer Dennis, but is there any chance that Ron Paul may have a higher chance at getting the R. nomination than Dennis has of getting the D.?
Support Kucinich.
Support impeachment against Cheney (bill currently in House Judiciary Committee).
Support Cindy Sheehan, which will pressure Pelosi to move impeachment forward.
bumper sticker - Impeach Cheney and save the world.
Once Cheney is on trial the world will be on hold and nobody will start anything stupid (like bombing Iran) until America gets a new President.
Does anybody do youtube videos? How do we reach da yungsters? Ignore the MSM, be creative in reaching people and let us know about it.
If Cheney and Bush were gotten rid of, and Pelosi were caretaker President, then the chances of Kucinich being elected would go way up.
I changed my vote to obama from dennis: Obama has a law degree from harvard and he worked sucessfully with the community organizing. He is youngand popular and is electable. Polls show he can beat all the Republicans. Zogby poll showed this week that Hillary can beat NONE!!! So we should all unite with Obama- not Jon Edwards who would be another white man in the office and he advised john Kerry not to apologize for that Iraq War vote and now he changed his mind on that- he is a trial lawyer and he is taking the public for a ride talking about all that support for lower classes while he made his money in hedge funds-
Next President is a multicultural man or a woman and Dennis does not have the votes although he has the great ideas- there is not enough votes.
CoMarc,
I agree that eliminating the democratic party would be ideal. I also agree, although I support him and plan to vote for him, that Kucinich is a long shot. That being said, as of today, I think that Kucinich being elected in 08′ is more realistic than eliminating the democratic party before next year’s elections. So maybe focus on getting Kucinich in the white house until the primaries, then, if kucinich loses, fire up some fresh plans for the future.
One thing that makes me leery of Kunicich(and others):
I never see them question the lack of coverage they receive amongst the MSM in their rare opportunities on/in MSM. I know nobody wants to look like a complaining baby, but this subject as far as domestic issues go ranks high on the list. The MSM’s stranglehold on candidate coverage should be a major talking point amongst progressive candidates, especially Kucinich. So I wonder why he doesn’t raise the issue.
If you are of the masses who get their “news” from network broadcasts (or worse, from Fox), you barely know that Dennis Kucinich was ever born, much less that he’s running for president. His positions? HR333? He might as well be running for office in Outer Mongolia. The networks cover the 2-man races in the Dems (Hillary or Obama) and the Repubs (Romney and Giuliani). If you watch really closely, you might see that there are other people on the debate stage, but they are never listed by name, nor are they given even a sound-bite of exposure. So, as the ignorant masses listen (if they listen) as the talking heads hold forth on the strategies of the “favorites” jockeying for lead position, nary a breath is spared on enlightening anyone on the candidates’ positions. Hence, I would guess that Kucinich’s candidacy is virtually invisible to most Americans. Were it not kept below the radar, he might catch fire with the population, because he truly is unique — he’s running on principle, and he puts his money where his mouth is.
“the polls contribute to this perdition of our democracy.”
If the already-too few American voters vote based on polls then they deserve all the Hitlers , Stalins , Pol Pots … that come down the pyke.
The American People need Kucinich. He is the only candidate so far that has the vision and the courage to introduce impeachment legislation and demand single payer health care. The others suggest that a person who is “electable” will not speak truth to power. Kucinich has the tools and the ability to heal this land.
COMarc made an excellent point about Superdelegates, which I neglected to mention. It’s true; superdelegates are Democratic party hacks (usually elected officials) who can tip the balance toward the “preferred” choice of the party establishment. While that is clearly Hillary, I’m sure there will be smattering of Obama and Edwards superdelegates. But don’t count on more than a handful ever supporting Kucinich (if that).
I am not trying to be pessimistic; rather, just pointing out reality. Our Corporate Party behemoth is very adroit at excluding anyone outside of the very narrow capitalist/ corporatist, imperialist ideology that constitutes “respectable opinion”.
The Howard Dean story is a great example; Dean himself honestly was not far from what is acceptable to the DC beltway. His supporters were far more radical than him. But the fact that he was able to drum up such support represented a real threat to the Democratic “Party” establishment, their corporate masters and media shills. He had to be stopped and he was, rather effortlessly.
Kucinich is not 1/10th as much of a threat to the establishment as Howard Dean was four years ago; ergo, they can ignore him and dismiss him as a “kook”; which they do. But if he becomes a serious threat, he will be squashed as quickly and easily as Dean was.
So, sorry abuelito. Saying Kucinich must win won’t make it any more likely. Nor will working heart and soul for him. As I said before, his campaign is useful in that it garners media attention and generates support for impeachment and ending the war. So, I encourage people to support him with that goal in mind.
His primary campaign could also be a very valuable foundation for an independent bid for the White House in the fall. Unlike Nader, he could say to his critics, “I tried to go the conventional way and was blocked; now it’s time to break with convention” I hope he does this, I really do.
pfutrell asks an interesting question on Ron Paul. Does he have a better shot at the GOP nomination than Kucinich with the Democratic nomination? Right now, I would say yes, partly because the GOP is so fractured at the top and its base is unhappy with all the frontrunners. Furthermore, as a libertarian, Paul is not as serious of a threat to the GOP’s corporate masters the way Kucinich is. Still, Paul’s chances are slim.
douglos, it is not clear whether Nader is running or not in 2008. He hinted at a potential run if Hillary is the nominee and many Greens and other lefties are urging him to do so. If he decides against it, I hope that some other unflappable progressive steps up; Kucinich himself perhaps. I’m sure the Green nomination would be his for the asking. Otherwise, Cynthia McKinney would make a great candidate.
Most importantly, remember, building a genuine SECOND PARTY and creating real democracy at the national level is a long term project. Our efforts will likely have little effect in 2008. But we should be looking at the Presidential election of 2016 and 2020; the midterms of 2018 and 2022.
And MOST, MOST, MOST importantly, we need to break entirely with the corporate shills who call themselves Democrats. Do not fall into the trap of lesser evilism; assuming they win the White House next year, in 2010 the Democrats will whine about how we need to elect MORE of them to enact progressive policies that President Hillary really wants. In 2012, they will say President Hillary needs to be re-elected in a landslide for there to be meaningful change. And so on, and so on. It’s a shell game.
The line in the sand has been drawn. No More! It’s up to us to build our own party and claim our own democracy.
If all scroll back and count how many here are going to vote for DK, you will see he is the winner. I sncerely hope he is our next president.
If you also see how many actually have posted, only count a person once, he will only win if Common Dreams people are counting the votes come the day of the election. That is not desire, that is reality. Money talks and the one with the most money, will usually win.
One good thng is, the Republican party does not have any money this time. The Democrats do.
We also are not certain there will be an election. We may have a self annointed King George. That also is not a desire, it may be reality also.
Yes Ronald White, America gets the leaders it deserves because from my perspective, the majority of voters tend to be sophomoric, while many of the sagacious voters, who tend to be in the minority, are so disgusted they do not vote at all. Whether it is a sports team,a horse race, a casino, or an election the average American wants to be a winner.
Support Impeachment!
VOTE FOR KUCINICH!
Yes, the world DOES need an independent icon that represents the will of the people rather than the crimes of the guilty.
However, if it is going to be Kucinich, then frankly speaking, he has yet to renounce publicly the Dumocrat party for what it is, he has yet to initiate a genuinely independent platform outside the loop of known to be bogus US “election” platforms based entirely on one of the two known to be corrupted representatives of corporate crime for profit.
Sure I like what he SAYS.
I´ll vote for him when he ACTS in line with those words and admits the obvious. The American peoples are NOT represented by the Dumocrats or Repugnants.
You have already seen for yourselves that the Dumocrat reps are in lockstep with the Repugnants and you know that you are not going to get even a semblance of a democratic process at the next sleazy little sideshow claimed to be an election.
So WHY precisely do you think the Dumocrats have a “candidate” expousing the rule of law? To keep you in the program that´s why. At the end of the day, the completely unelectable Kucinich will hand over his marginal votes to his masters.
How sickening that the needs of the many are being used to harness your rage in order that you do not do what is so evidently needed:
Reinstate the precepts as known and arrest, try, and thereafer render the full measure of justice on the necks of the known criminals among us as well as their willing accomplices in the initiation and continuation of the crimes against humanity that are being conducted in your name.
Precisely due to the fact that you will not rise up and do what your forebears have done.
It’s really TOOOOOOOOO BAD that this poor guy does not have a chance in hell.
There’s way tooooooooo much $$$$$$ backing Dick Cheney and his little boy George (who’se fast approaching his own prophetic statement about “. . . Laura and the dog”.
buckheaddad
this is not about doing the right thing, i.e. the peoples business, it’s all about getting re-elected. self serving assholes!
I would love to see Kucinich win the nomination, but their are two things to consider. 1-The MSM won’t let him become the nominee and 2-If he were to become POTUS, he may wind up like JFK. The powers that be are not going to have any president who is so much FOR the citizens of the U.S.A. and NOT for the corporations and “The Military Industrial Complex”!
THANK YOU COMarc and Beowolf for a point-on explanation of the Democratic Party and the Kucinich campaign.
For those progessive Democrats on CommonDreams, it hurts to hear the cold, hard truth about your party and how corrupt and unfair it is towards populist, grassroots candidates within its own party. How sad. How betrayed you must feel. Progressive Democrats are no more logical in their thinking than those who choose not to vote at all. Chasing a dangling carrot every election placed there by the Democratic leadership simply to keep your energies and hopes alive and corraled within the party is disgraceful and hurtful… but you continue to do it.
I embrace Kucinich not as a Democrat but as an individual who has vision and hope for our future. It is unfortunate that he chooses to place loyalty of party over leadership in a new direction for America. Until he breaks from his corrupted party and chooses, really chooses to lead a movement of independent thinking Americans in a new direction will I take him serious enough to throw my support behind him. It will be very, very interesting to see what happens after the corporatists select their party nominee by February. Will Kucinich be the leader we all wish him to be and denounce the party for what it is? Will he leave it or slink back into its cozy, warm folds again leaving progressive Democrats staring in befuddlement… again?
Ask people why they think he is a lunatic.
If its his ideology—one could reply that not only does that make them a lunatic as well (the questioner) but all of the other people and or organizations that have similar stances on how things should be organized.
they are all crazy cuz they want to do as little harm as possible?
People don’t have logical reasons for them concluding that dk and or gravel are nut jobs.
that dk and g are nut jobs trying to keep us from murdering more people should resonate well with people.
contraire to the nut job label—-they are arguable the psychologically healthiest cans. I think mental health needs major addressing to help push far left politics. look at the relationship dk would want to have the world and compare that to all the other cans——who would you rather have to deal with on a personal basis in real life?
would you rather have gb or dk for a brother, father, boss etc.?
I think we (as a society) have blown politics waaaaaaay out of proportion. these things should be mundane.
all this bullshit is, is systems for coordinating activity.
no f-ing big deal.
so why all the coercive institutions and hierarchies?
cuz the mundane coordination of activity has been hijacked by a tiny minority.
regardless of their intentions, benevolent or menacing, this aint no representative democracy.
If there’s anyone mean enough to knock the Marlboro out of the Marlboro Man, it’s that guy up there in the photo. Do your planet a favor and vote Kucinich in the primaries.
It’s hard for ordinary people to buck the system and vote for a candidate who represents substantial change, because they need to conform to the directions of the local representatives of the coordinator class in their daily lives. They’re afraid they’ll lose their social and economic security if they challenge authority. Hell, I’m afraid of that, too, but I’ll still vote for Kucininch because I don’t treasure what small measure of security I have. I’d rather take a chance on creating a better society.
And it’s the risk-takers who are portrayed as “nuts” by the
powers-that-be. Maybe we are a little, but at least we still have hearts.
Moe: “Hey Larry I have a great idea if our candidate does not get the nomination this year”
Larry: “What ingenious idea do you have now Moe?”
Moe: “Well Curly Joe and me were thinking if our guy is not nominated we are going to go and buy a gun and shoot ourselves in the foot”
Larry: “HUH”
Moe: “Yeah, we are sick and tired of all these other guys. Winning is not important, winning is for losers; so this time we are going to support a definite loser.”
Larry: “But Moe you did that last time, you said there was no difference between the two main candidates so you were going to support that Duopoly guy.”
Larry: “Do you remember how mad you were when the bombing of Baghdad started, you said we should have voted for the other guy, maybe he really was not as bad as the Republicans?”
Moe: “Yeah Larry I know, but like Curly Joe said winning is for losers; we only want to make a statement.”
Larry: “But Moe isn’t it more important to vote for the person who is going to do the least damage and not start another war, rather than cast a vote for someone who has absolutely no chance of winning.”
Curly Joe: “Nah that’s dump its much better to help the bad guy win and cast a vote for a definite loser than to waste a vote on a less war mongering main party candidate, ya see what I mean?”
Larry: “Sorry Curly I could not hear you, the bombs that Rudy is dropping on Iran are too loud, what did you say?”
Moe: “Don’t forget all those third parties that made a real impact, let me see, there was:
Anti-Masonic Party
Free Soil Party
Know Nothing Party
Whig Party
Southern Democratic Party
Constitutional Union Party
Populist Party
Bull-Moose Party
Progressive Party
Socialist Party
Union Party
Dixiecrat Party
American Independent Party
Libertarian Party
Citizens Party
New Alliance Party
Reform Party
Natural Law Party
Constitution Party
Green Party
Vote for the Democrat Kucinich first and foremost in the primaries. And whatever Democrat gets the nomination in the general.
Rudy/Huck will take us on a raft down a River of No Return.
As I suggested in my post on the Monday article ( I think it was by Bonnie Klein) about outrage, and as others have said, the Mainstream media (MSM)is going to be the biggest stumbling block to a wonderful candidate like DK. So far from the other posts no one has responded to my call of a formal “Declaration of Freedom from the Mainstream Media”.
I’m talking about a wiki- drafted document that people can sign and send via web and snail mail to: 1) The owners of the MSM corps. 2) Every member of Congress 3) Everyone running for the POTUS 2008 Beauty Pageant and most importantly 4)The head of every major corporation in the US.
I think there are enough people who have had it up to their eyeballs with the amount of influence the MSM has over our lives. It has been culpable in so many of the wrongs we have to deal with.
If enough people symbolically throw their TV’s, radios, over a cliff and stop reading the so called “standard bearer” newspapers completely, I think then and only then can you get The Powers attention. When CEOs figure out that their ad messages will go UNHEARD, they will take note.
Start now by trying to enlist as many of your like minded friends to turn off the tube. Don’t wait for the national campaign that’s aimed mostly at kids. Stop watching commercial TV. Switch over to the municipal channels or Access or Free Speech TV stations. Here’s the slogan: “If you won’t listen to the people, the people WON’T listen to you”. Keep your ads and your propaganda to yourself”.
The MSM depends on eyeballs watching all their shows, both news and entertainment, to make dollars. $$$$ are the ONLY thing these guys understand.
I know it’s hard but I (who probably could have been classified as a TV junkie) gave up commercial TV about 6 months ago and it has changed my entire life. I know I’m probably preaching to the CD choir but we have to persuade the people sitting disinterestedly out in the pews. Maybe we could make it a contest, who can stop watching TV the longest or something.
I don’t know about PBS shows. Of course they have their own form of corporate sponsorship. Any thoughts on this?
Just vote for Dennis. You know in your heart of hearts it’s the rite thing to do
I could wring Dennis Kuchinich’s neck. He’s lost my vote this morning, so I won’t vote at all.
How could he make such a stupid statement? Ron Paul is opposed to any government protections and benefits at all as well as opposing reproductive choice for women.
I give up. There’s absolutely nobody running now who cares about America.
Here’s the Plain Dealer report of his comments last night.
ike kay
I’d suggest you put your post in small letters. People won’t read posts in caps, no matter how urgent you may think it is.
anney,
It maybe be insane, but so is D.C. Even though Ron Paul is anti-choice and there is no such thing as a “free market” (an oxymoron, in fact), I’d not write off the ticket. The question is what Paul supporters (and Ron Paul himself) think of Kucinich.
The other question is how Kucinich is free to “pick” his running mate. I made accusations here on CD a few weeks/months ago that Gore’s “liberal” credentials are vastly overblown — one look at his running mate Liebermann (poster-child to the Republican-Neocon cause). And folks countered that Gore was saddled with Liebermann by the crypto-neocon DLC.
So how is it that Kucinich is able to “pick” his running mate, whereas Gore cannot?
Perhaps only if he — and Paul — are considering running as independents?
Ike kay,
You’re right that the impending environmental catastrophe makes all other issues seem moot. But I think they are all intertwined. The criminality of elected leaders in their waging wars of aggression and eroding civil rights makes it impossible to implement the radical cultural and economic changes needed to stave off disaster. We need to hold them accountable to at least send the message to aspirants to elected office that they’d better serve the people, as John Dean suggested. And they’d have to be accountable to us in order to effect the needed changes.
Paul Bramscher
Ron Paul has rejected Kucinich his running mate. It means Kucinich didn’t check with Ron Paul before saying it, not a smart move.
Why would Kucinich SAY such a thing? This is not the time for Republicans and Democrats to come together, but the time to restore the Constitution and the long-standing programs established to benefit Americans that Bush has trashed.
Anyway, you point about not being free to pick one’s running mate if one wins the party nomination is true. Kucinich surely knows this, and his statement leads me to doubt that he’s serious — he can’t pick if he remains a Democrat, and even if he could, Ron Paul is a horrible choice for him.
Anney was his comment more of an idealist statement and maybe lighthearted? To me it seems that way. I have discussed Kucinich and Paul running together mostly out of a dream/unity fantasy… to unite the country and as a way to get to the heart of the biggest, most important issues that face this country. The war, civil liberties, and global warming. The other issues are just details because if we are falling off the cliff that this country is pushing us off of, abortion, gun control, taxes, et al will be pointless. If we are in WWIII will we have time to put through abortion bills?
A Kucinich/Paul ticket would revolutionize the world, because it would be the biggest statement America could make. That statement is that peace and unity is possible, and that the people are again in control. What could be a bigger statement to the rest of the world (that currently frowns upon our Empire)?
What could be a bigger statement to the people?
With a bipartisan administration, we can begin to ditch the two party system, not to mention the ability to INNOVATE current processes. Who is to say that they couldn’t make it work?
Yes they are polar in some areas but in the biggest areas they are united, and those polarities speak to each group - repubs and democrats, so they would also have the best chance at not only uniting americans but getting the votes to do so.
To me, it’s an issue of giving the people what they want. Paul and Kucinich are the peoples’ choice outside of MSM. To ignore that just as many repubs love Paul as progressives love DK is not looking at the big picture. To give both parties of the PEOPLE - BOTH - what they want, would be the ultimate sacrifice for our leaders to make, and the most revolutionary thing to happen to our country.
This should show Kucinich’s dedication to the people. To me, this is an incredible thing to hear him say, and it gives me hope. Hope for the future, hope for the possibility of DK getting the VOTES needed (I can still hear those ‘unelectable’ grumbles but they are fading), hope for uniting the people and getting back our constitution (of which Paul supports too). I hope it can give others hope as well.
We all need it.
No, there’s no way the two could work together, and they have no reason to work together. They disagree on everything but impeachment and the war. I’m not interested in voting for candidates with such diametrically-opposed agendas. And for Kucinich to say such a foolish thing makes me believe he has no intention of campaigning seriously. He isn’t running for treasurer of the band. He was the only one I would have voted for, but no more.
I’m not willing to listen to excuses about Kucinich or any other politician anymore either. He said it, and I take him at his word that he thinks it would be a grand idea. I feel utterly betrayed by Kucinich.
IKE KAY — and others interested in F O R M A T I N G _ _ HTML _ effects
Let me introduce you to the hidden world of HTML textual emphasis techniques, which will hopefully empower you to consider something other than all capitals, so that your posting swill be more readable and thereby READ by more interested people.
T H E _ R U L E S
1._ Leave no more than one space between anything as parsing removes superfluous ones, and you can use _ under _ score _ characters to space things apart.
2._ every text change must be proceeded and followed with the escape characters, and have unique letters associated:
3._ The leading LEFT-SIDE escape character construction is use of
4._ The following RIGHT-SIDE escape character construction (which adds a new character) is use of
If you get curious, one can select page source (somewhere in browser pull down menus) and see the above plus a whole bunch of similar stuff, that you’ll need to filter through by using a search for some unique phrase in your post.
I suggest using a text only editor to pre-compose you BLOG entry, if it’s longer than 10 or so lines, as you’ll be able to see the whole message, prior to pasting it back into the edit window.
Good Luck, have fun, and don’t worry - as remember this is only text manipulation of text formating, not like you’re re-programming the operating system to make a zombie out of someone else’s computer.
Namaste
__ __ __ __ We must be the change
__ __ __ __ we wish to see in the world __ Gandhi
Anney I am truly sorry you feel that way. I always enjoy your insightful posts, and I don’t fault you for feeling betrayed by Kucinich.
I do hope that many people recognize that Kucinich is unlike any other politician in that his actions speak louder than his words. And this will be no exception, they are just words. His actions are what makes him the peoples’ candidate. He consistently votes with his conscious and he has demonstrated his dedication to the people. Everyone has a “dream ticket” and this is his because he is a peacemaker in every way. I personally cannot fault him for this but I do see how people can think it is foolish. I personally think it is gutsy and shows, once again, that he not only has his priorities straight (ALL the people of america), but also that has the biggest balls in washington.
Sorry,
But a Kucinich/Paul ticket (as unrealistic as it would be) would simply cancel itself out. There’d be more inside questioning going on then there would be moving the agenda forward.
What we need is a completely NEW direction in our political thinking not trying to mix oil with water.
I agree, newageartist, that it would be really hard to pull it off. I do believe it is possible but it would not be as efficient in progressing America. However there is just as much possibility of it being a complete conflict of interest, as it does bringing our politics UP instead of just left or right.
Kucinich will bring a new direction to America because he has the peoples’ interest at heart. I don’t care if he does it with Ron Paul, Al Gore, Bill Gates, or Eric Cartman. The fact is, this country needs Kucinich. Everything else is just details and it can play out however it likes and we’ll be better off, as long as it’s not the direction we are going now.
KEM PATRICK:
the “YOU” is for anyone reading this thread. Congrats on 110 referrals! I’ve only got 3 people to read this site (more than once).
What’s your method?
Impeachment is the only way to get to the bottom of this mess!
Before I vote for any of the media sanctioned candidates including Republican and Democrat, I’ll vote for Captain Krunch. What’s the point of voting for more corruption, more war, more killing, more greed driven nonsense.
HI DUSTINCHICAGO, to answer your good question, I have a BIG mouth. I also print appropriate articles about our sorry-ass Congress and elected King. I have 500 copies of the article printed at the local print shop. Then I sit at the local coffee shops in three different cities and hand them out while checking out the chicks. Pretty soon several people are discussing the articles with themselves or with me, and many then log onto Common Dreams. All of my neighbors, some who were former, very rabid Bush/Cheney supporters, now read Common Dreams. Of course they are no longer Bush fans and some are now registered as independents. That’s what I do, of course I&#