Iraq Says Civilians Killed In US Raid
BAGHDAD - U.S. forces engaged in an hours-long gun battle with militants during an early-morning raid in the Iraqi capital’s Shiite Muslim district of Sadr City on Sunday. American officials said as many as 49 people were killed in the fighting.
The Iraqi government said many of the victims were civilians and protested the action. The American military said that all of those killed were “criminals.”
A freelance correspondent for The Times said he saw the corpses of a woman and two small children. The wounded included two boys, 8 and 11, who were interviewed in their beds at Imam Ali Hospital by The Times. Another man said his 18-month-old son was killed, as well as a neighbor’s son who was the same age.
U.S. officials said the forces did not capture or kill the raid’s target, identified as the leader of a kidnapping cell that is part of a Shiite militant movement called the Special Groups — a splinter group of the Mahdi Army militia no longer following orders from radical cleric Muqtada Sadr. American officials believe the splinter group is trained, funded and supplied by Iran through its Revolutionary Guard forces.
The White House declined to comment on the clash in Sadr City.
The fighting followed recent incidents in which U.S. forces killed 15 civilians in an attack on alleged leaders of the insurgent group Al Qaeda in Iraq, and Western private security contractors shot and killed 17 Iraqi civilians, inflaming anti-U.S. sentiment.
In two raids this summer on Sadr City, American soldiers killed more than 50 people.
In parliament Sunday, Iraqi officials discussed the possibility of placing restrictions on U.S. military operations in Iraq when theynegotiate the terms of the United Nations resolution that authorizes the U.S. presence here. The resolution comes up for its annual reauthorization before year’s end.
Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki issued a statement demanding that the U.S. not use such overwhelming force in pursuing targets, and that it further coordinate its efforts with Iraqi forces. He said the government would conduct an investigation of the Sadr City incident.
Iraqi government spokesman Ali Dabbagh, speaking on CNN’s “Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer,” said that such attacks were “not creating a good atmosphere.”
“We have today, again, one more problem created.”
In Najaf, Sheik Salah Ubaidi, a spokesman for Sadr, who has called for near-term rapprochement with the U.S., said: “We denounce these acts. We have no option but to denounce. We have grown tired from the many denouncements we have made.”
The Iraqi Interior Ministry, which oversees the Iraqi police force, said 13 civilians were killed and 69 wounded. The U.S. military issued two statements in which the total number of dead grew to 49 from six. Officials did not explain how they arrived at the casualty figures or explain the discrepancy between their total and that of the Iraqi government. A military spokesman said there were no U.S. casualties in the incident.
According to the initial U.S. account, ground forces arrived in Sadr City, a Mahdi Army stronghold, and began clearing buildings where their target was believed to be when they came under fire from machine guns and grenade launchers.
The soldiers called in airstrikes that killed six assailants, American authorities said. While leaving the area, they said, the forces were targeted by a roadside bomb.
In a subsequent account, the U.S. said the ground forces had returned fire in the initial attack, killing an additional 33 people. American officials said ground forces had continued to come under fire as they left the area, and that 10 more combatants were killed in that fighting.
In both accounts, the military said it was “unaware of any innocent civilians being killed as a result of this operation.”
Iraqi witnesses gave a mostly similar account: Combatants in the neighborhood began firing on the U.S. troops, and a battle raged for more than two hours across several blocks in the neighborhood, damaging apartment buildings, a bakery, a power generator and several cars. Columns of black smoke rose into the sky.
But the Iraqi witnesses’ details about casualties differed widely from those provided by the Americans. “The pilot shot me when I crossed the street to buy bread,” 11-year-old Ali Ahmad said from his hospital bed. “I have been hit by shrapnel in my chest.”
“I was going to buy eggs for breakfast, then I was hit by a helicopter,” said Murtada Naim, an 8-year-old who was also interviewed in his hospital bed. He appeared to have suffered wounds to his chest and hand.
Ismail Mikilf Hassan, 47, said his toddler was killed when a missile hit his house, and that his 19-year-old son, who was in the hospital, had been wounded by shrapnel.
“The missile penetrated the ceiling and hit inside the room,” he said. “I have a 1 1/2-year-old baby — he was killed when his belly was opened. My second son is lying there on the bed and his belly is filled with shrapnel. I do not know if he is going to live or die.”
Abu Qassim said his young son also was killed. “This should not happen!” he said. “Are these children from the Mahdi Army?”
Meanwhile, Iraqi police said three people were killed and three injured when a mortar round hit their car as they traveled through east Baghdad on Sunday evening. Police also said they found the bodies of six men, who had been shot to death, in the capital.
Times staff writers Usama Redha, Raheem Salman, Saif Hameed and Wail Alhafith in Baghdad and Alan C. Miller in Washington, and a special correspondent in Sadr City contributed to this report. christian.berthelsen@latimes.com
© 2007 The Los Angeles Times
Were these Blackwater mercenaries?
We are uniting the Iraqi people…against us.
Were these Blackwater mercenaries?
No they weren’t, but it is irrelavant; they were Americans.
This has been going on for the past 4 years, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed, and millins left homeless and distitute by our brave boys, so that I can be “free”, whatever that’s supposed to mean…
Just spreading freedom and democracy.
U.S. air strikes in a Shi’ite stronghold of Baghdad early on Sunday killed two toddlers, Reuters TV footage showed, in clashes that police said left a total of 13 dead and 69 wounded. The bodies of the toddlers, one in a nappy, lay on crumpled blankets in the morgue of Imam Ali hospital in the poor district of Sadr City.
Well, citizens of America, this is being done by your military on instructions from your leaders in the name of your security.
I’ll put it plainly. It’s time to kill your leaders.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbNIU2KEz4g&mode=related&search=
Stinger,
Excellent lecture! Thanks for the link.
The US military is dropping bombs on civilian areas of Baghdad once again, and the US population just sleeps on… Hey! Hey! USA! how many kids have you killed today?
Just a thought here. One reason the GIs who returned from Vietnam were reviled was because they operated in the government “war machine”. Protests against the atrocities committed by the military in Vietnam were probably secondary to protests about so many Americans dying in Vietnam, another “war of choice, sent there by a draft.
Yet, what if these guy come home to be reviled because of things like this latest — the countless murders of innocents in Iraq? It’s really hard to have a blanket “patriotic” feeling of “God Bless the Troops” when they’re killing innocents.
If the military would subject these guys to courts-martial instead of making excuses and trying to cover things up, Americans could embrace those who come home with clear names.
Oh, well, if we weren’t there at all, there wouldn’t be a problem. It’s been an illegal war from the beginning.
The first report on I heard on this raid, irrc, said that “we” had entered Sadr City looking for the mastermind of a kidnapping ring that targetted US SOLDIERS, which I thought was very odd since no US troops had been kidnapped recently as far as I could recall.
I can no longer find that report, but most reports indicate that this was an attempt to capture a “high level target” kidnapping ring, controlled by those dastardly Iranians … this LA Times story adding that this is run, In Iraq, by a splinter of the Mahdi Army that is no longer under Moqtada Al-Sadr’s control.
I really want to know more …. such as EXACTLY who are these kidnappers targetting and why… and why do we “give a damn” about this ring now, when kidnapping has been rife for years now.
About 6 months ago, irrc, 3 American soldiers disappeared … and as far as I’m aware they remain un-found though the identification papers on two of them were found and, irrc, they were presumed dead …
But I also recall another raid (or two) into Sadr City trying to capture the people who allegedly kidnapped these soldiers … raids which were also occasioned by air strikes being called in and civilian deaths.
This seems significant to me because it suggests to me that these raids into Sadr City are, in essence, self-interested “revenge” raids … rather than serving some larger tactical purpose.
A raid intended to capture ONE individual that results in dozens killed and wounded, mostly civilians, from airstrikes on a densely populated ghetto seems TO ME to represent questionable and likely skewed priorities.
Interesting how little news there is coming out of Iraq these days ….
1. I agree that the Dems haven’t done all they can. And it is true they can’t break a filibuster. We need to elect enough, probably 9 and 10 for sure next election. And for sure a Dem Prez no matter who. The Supreme court is on the verge and one more conservative on it can undo everything that is still intact. And that will last for another 20 years. I don’t contend this is more important than lives being lost isn’t the most pressing issue, but it is important to realize that one more wingnut judge and they will overturn not just Roe v. Wade, but Social security, medicare, most large social programs. Remember Social Security only survived by a 5 to 4 vote in the 30s despite a court that at that time was liberal. Think of the damage that could be done, millions of seniors in poverty, no healthcare for them. Medicaid, Schip. If you don’t think that the right wingers won’t push for all of this as they become more and more emboldened, you are wrong. If you listen to right wing talk, their overall objective is to totally overturn the new deal of FDR, the new society of the 60s and 70s of the war on poverty, medicare, etc.
The electorate in the last 7 years has made the Dems extremely gun shy and the constant lies from prez and repugnets do echo across the land and it is unfortunate that this still resonates in the red states. I live in Georgia and hear the wingnuts exicited that this can occur in our lifetime; Roberts, Alito, Thomas, Scalia are licking their chops for just one more wingnut Supreme court judge and we can begin. Justice Breyer, liberal is 87, Ginsberg, Stevens, and Souter in their 70s DANGER! DANGER! DANGER! Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas, just licking their chops for one more wingnut
We must support the Dems and nurse them along no matter what!!! Don’t vote for any 3rd party candidates, don’t sign any petitions to get other candidates on the ballot in any state. THIS COMING ELECTION IS THAT IMPORTANT.
REMEMBER DIVIDE US AND THEY WIN!!!!!!.
In a war soldiers are captured. In an occupation they are kidnapped. Any questions?
Supporting the troops is the problem not the solution. Period!
I heard a commander in Iraq on NPR the other day talking about some of his men who were captured. (war?) He was very upset that his men could be tortured. Well, if their captors use water boarding or electric shock to the most sensitive areas of the body or are beaten and sleep deprived those are US approved interrogation techniques. So it can’t be torture. Right? I’m sure he has no need to worry.
re airstrikes: From Slate’s Today’s papers:
so, 1,140 times our personnel were “surprised” and “needed” to call in air strikes to “protect” themselves … gosh ….
It appears that the calculations involved in risking civilian lives have become routine, “business as usual” …
Disturbing.
the only troops i support, are the ones who have refused to partake in this illegal genocide any longer, and have defected. the rest can go to hell.
Increasing airstrikes isn’t a good sign at all, civilian casualties aren’t really as much of a concern right now to US agression. Some of these areas are tragically poor slums, which always lubricates the cost benefit analysis of hurtling gunfire and bombs into the midst of peasants.
oops again.
“American officials believe the splinter group is trained, funded and supplied by Iran through its Revolutionary Guard forces.”
Why does the press so willingly go along with the administration’s talking points? There is basically no evidence to back this up, and is probably untrue since our government has been so desperate to find any evidence it can. The press is doing a real disservice as usual
anney,
“One reason the GIs who returned from Vietnam were reviled was because they operated in the government “war machine”.”
The “GIs were reviled” is one of the Big Lies that goes unchallenged, except by antiwar soldiers & antiwar members. Soldiers who vocally continued to spout the line that we were winning (or had won) in Vietnam, or that Vietnam could’ve been won might have faced harsh sledding, but not the vets who came back and were thrown into the ash can by a grateful military-industrial complex . . .
Dichterfreund
That was my generation. A guy I dated in high school was shot down over Vietnam, was tortured and then killed, the first of our small class to die. Many vets certainly WERE reviled by Americans, at least those who came home when the antiwar fervor was at its height. By then, the country was in a rage that covered the government and the vets, too. There weren’t many local parades or “Welcome home, Hero,” celebrations for these guys.
I do agree that the Vietnam Vets were trashed by the government. Almost all of them had PTSD, and if they got any kind of treatment for it, they usually had to pay for it out of pocket, often referred for therapy by the courts after committing violence at home after they were discharged. The rates for divorce and domestic violence were very high among them. This group of Iraq returnees is faring just as badly, given their terrible injuries, depleted uranium illnesses, and PTSD.
I hate war, the killing, and what it does to combatants.
there is an enormous gap between not being feted, honored, and admired and being “reviled.”
Efforts to document abuse of returning Vietnam vets have turned up only a few (less than a handful) of cases … I think Snopes has a page on it … specifically, cases of vets being spit on and called baby killers, etc. simply have not been found and the “stories” have both the sort of “friend of a friend” attribution and consistency of certain details that suggest that instead these were “urban legends” … the vet, invariably, being attired in dress uniform, for instance, and thereby UNABLE to respond as they would have liked without “disgracing” the uniform.
The stories were repeated endlessly by right winger, John Birchers, etc. and certainly by vets (again, “a friend of a friend”) increasing their sense of having been used and abused …
Some apparently remain angry about that missing “welcome home” parade … but, I guess that’s what happens when there is no “victory” and peace negotiations drag on for years.
I urge you to do some googling … there have been similar “stories” about return Iraq vets …
oh, and many vets did come home to find that the world at home had changed drastically and that their spit polished shoes and buzz cuts were no longer “in fashion” … and yes, I gather many found that their friends and family really didn’t want to talk about it … but many vets didn’t want to talk about it either — again, perhaps not the reception they hoped for, but hardly “reviled” …
and there was guilt on the part of those whose circumstances included college degrees, lawyers, doctors’ statments, and the rest.
Many of those who ended up in Vietnam never questioned their “duty” to show up when Uncle Sam wrote them that letter … some enlisted in hope of getting better assignments and/or getting into officer training corps… but as in the All Volunteer Army, it was something to do, maybe an adventure, and it was a job not a calling or a cause … imho.
I just wanted to add that these stories were repeated and believed GENERALLY … and that the antiwar folks I knew and worked with believed and were embarrassed by these stories as well … I do recall some “vets” harrassing peace marchers on several mobilizations I marched in and I even recall a fist fight, maybe two.
I do suspect that vets who thought their service, their buff physique and uniform were going to be “babe catnip” on their return home were likely SERIOUSLY DISAPPOINTED …
Quite simply, the war was VERY unpopular… it’s not surprising returning vets made many people uncomfortable … it was hard to know what to say … but I’d say it was awkward, not hostile.
Are we to believe that the same bunch that was waiving VietCong flags and holding up “BABYKILLER” signs were INCAPABLE of insulting returning Vietnam soldiers. Except that one guy in Cleveland….
Give me a break. Soldiers should not be abused for going to places that the are ordered to go. Most of the military people that I know in IRAQ would rather be anywhere but there.
Susan
I met many Vietnam vets who’d been in combat as I grew older, and many did tell tales of “not being welcome” at home when they returned. They thought they were hated. This is different from actually being reviled, yes. But it was the feeling of almost every vet I knew.
Maybe it was survivor guilt. I also think their need for welcome and comfort and maybe just being appreciated after witnessing and avoiding so much death (many of them) was not met. And maybe it was the realization when they got home that the war itself was so reviled that they “took on” that additional burden of disparagement as though it were against them personally.
Sometimes years later an emotional breakdown would occur — I knew several guys it happened to, one in my presence. Some spiralled down into homelessness, just like the Iraq vets are now. If there’s any blessing in all this, it’s because there are, so far, fewer Iraq vets than Vietnam vets in our midst.
What I want to know is why millions of Americans aren’t demanding an end to this horrific war on Iraqis.
DON’T BUY ANYTHING BUT NECESSITIES IN NOVEMBER/DECEMBER. NO SHOP WINTER HOLIDAY, 2007!
STOP SHOPPING UNTIL TROOPS COME HOME!
PASS IT ON.
The US operates with an all mercenary army. Some joined years ago out of fear of poverty or naivete, but none has to be in Iraq now. Anybody “serving” in Iraq after four years of this genocide is a fool and a vampire. The more that die over there, the less we’ll have to deal with their maliciious insanity when they come back.
Iran revolutionary guard are the equal to the CIA. What they are doing in Iraq, the CIA is doing it around the globe. Why should we be offended by the existance of this group. The CIA is the biggest terrorist group in the world supported by american tax payer.
Iraq is supposed to be a sovereign nation with its own government and troops. So then how can it be that the Iraqi Prime Minister does not control the troops that are supposed to defend his elected regime?
Now I am beginning to see more clearly why the U.S. keeps its forces there - they can hit anyone anytime in order to try to ensure the U.S. favoured groups prosper and popular leaders the U.S. feels threatened by are either eliminated or kept in check. And lately it appears the U.S. has changed sides by buying off many groups of the Sunni resistance and systematically “degrading” Shiite militias probably in preparation for the U.S. attack on Iran.
.
Sickening
And to think this happens 24/7 in Iraq. The hatred we are breeding of American’s will last for a century.