US Most Armed Country with 90 Guns per 100 People
GENEVA - The United States has 90 guns for every 100 citizens, making it the most heavily armed society in the world, a report released on Tuesday said.
U.S. citizens own 270 million of the world’s 875 million known firearms, according to the Small Arms Survey 2007 by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies.
About 4.5 million of the 8 million new guns manufactured worldwide each year are purchased in the United States, it said.
“There is roughly one firearm for every seven people worldwide. Without the United States, though, this drops to about one firearm per 10 people,” it said.
India had the world’s second-largest civilian gun arsenal, with an estimated 46 million firearms outside law enforcement and the military, though this represented just four guns per 100 people there. China, ranked third with 40 million privately held guns, had 3 firearms per 100 people.
Germany, France, Pakistan, Mexico, Brazil and Russia were next in the ranking of country’s overall civilian gun arsenals.
On a per-capita basis, Yemen had the second most heavily armed citizenry behind the United States, with 61 guns per 100 people, followed by Finland with 56, Switzerland with 46, Iraq with 39 and Serbia with 38.
France, Canada, Sweden, Austria and Germany were next, each with about 30 guns per 100 people, while many poorer countries often associated with violence ranked much lower. Nigeria, for instance, had just one gun per 100 people.
“Firearms are very unevenly distributed around the world. The image we have of certain regions such as Africa or Latin America being awash with weapons — these images are certainly misleading,” Small Arms Survey director Keith Krause said.
“Weapons ownership may be correlated with rising levels of wealth, and that means we need to think about future demand in parts of the world where economic growth is giving people larger disposable income,” he told a Geneva news conference.
The report, which relied on government data, surveys and media reports to estimate the size of world arsenals, estimated there were 650 million civilian firearms worldwide, and 225 million held by law enforcement and military forces.
Five years ago, the Small Arms Survey had estimated there were a total of just 640 million firearms globally.
“Civilian holdings of weapons worldwide are much larger than we previously believed,” Krause said, attributing the increase largely to better research and more data on weapon distribution networks.
Only about 12 percent of civilian weapons are thought to be registered with authorities.
© Reuters 2007
Should be 0 percent, but we can work on that.
Welcome to thunderdome.
There may come a day when they are needed, desperately.
Goat, you are so dumb.
Unfortunately, while the USA has the most number of guns per person, they also have the least number of brains per person. This is what makes them truly dangerous.
All the corporate media has to do to get them to use their guns on each other is to “catapult the propoganda”, get some hysteria going, and presto…that annoying demographic is gone..Are the old ruining your Med Insurance company’s bottom line? No problem..Rush Limppaunch will go on a rampage about the eldrly and presto..no more old sickos around to screw up your profits.
Kids gettign to uppity and protesting? blamo, gone
Dear Mr Bush and company,
Please take note of this article should you and your Blackwater buddies decide to impose your image of Dumbocracy on US citizens.
Sincerely,
Rebel, with a cause
That’s nuts,
Why would normal people need guns?
I have perfectly good life without having any.
I am concerned that the world has added 235 million firearms in the last 5 years.
I have never owned a firearm, never will, but the Constitution grants our citizens the right to bear arms.
So, I will stand with my fellow citizen to fight to ensure that right is not taken away.
Remember that we now have an administration that is trying to take away some of our other Constitutional rights and we are outraged and fighting back. The right to bear arms is no different.
I know it is a tired statement, but it is true. “Guns don’t kill people, people do”
When it comes to gun laws, they need to start enforcing the laws we have. The only thing that I would add is that if a gun is used in crime that there is ten years that must automatically added to the sentence, if the gun is fired, 25 years.
I consider myself to be normal Vets, but if I didn’t have a gun and was well trained on how and when to use it, on two seperate occasions when I owned a service station, I would have been a dead normal.___ I fired first and I won.
Don’t ever get lost in traffic at night in Newark, Philadelphia, Trenton, Houston, San Francisco, Detropit, Chicago and many many other American cities, and not have a weapon. It is a ‘damn shame’ but that’s how we have evolved and that is reality.
I sincerely wish some of the school’s administrators at Columbine for just ONE example, had been WELL trained in the use of firearms and had them available. I’m certain many of the parents of those slaughtered innocent children wish the same. I realilze guns are a highly debatable issue, but until our society grows up and joins the human race, I will have a gun in my home,___ several weapons.
All those guns _might_ be an asset if they were in the hands of people comitted to building community and class solidarity and making sure the capitalist bosses know who is really boss.
But unfortunately, they are largely in the hands of racist, neo-confascist NRA’ers or the sociopathically greedy “libertarians”.
Really PJD, have you conducted a scientific study on the gun issue, or are you just writing an opinion?
I personaly know many decent people who own guns and none fit the description you just cited. Blahhhhhh, blahh.__ Rave on and show all how ignorant you are on the subject.
ug another article about gun ownership.
i’m a gun owner and i take offense to “normal people shouldn’t have any” or “we will make it zero”…no you WON’T! there’s lots of legal gun owners here in the US. sorry it’s a right we have or least we still have it. the existing gun laws need to be enforced.
time and again i mentioned the violent shows and movies - i even wrote to a journalist who had written an antigun article about it. she said “shows don’t kill”. always the same stupid articles about the number of guns, how about the root of the violence instead?
seems to me that the right wingers want to hit the 1st amendment and the progressives, the 2nd. the gun crime here is NOT commited by the legal gun owners. Tell me, people who want to take the guns away, are you going to protect us then? or just go “aww that’s too bad” when someone gets killed?
Lots of guns but no revolutionary class consciousness . . .
“But unfortunately, they are largely in the hands of racist, neo-confascist NRA’ers or the sociopathically greedy “libertarians”.”
more bullshit. i don’t see such opinions any better than the dumbed down right wingers. no proof or evidence just personal opinion based on prejudice.
so the public has a right to bear arms. i guess a personal nuke must be included in this right. after all it does not stipulate the size or power. after all a militia should be able to fight on an equal basis against the government.
My question, regarding the world wide distribution of small arms, would be this: Who kills the most people with firearms, governments or civilians?
Follow up questions might be: When was the last time you ‘trusted’ your government to do anything based on the common good?
When was the last time you thought your government was interested in protecting you, from any catastrophe, be it the result of military action, environmental degradation, recovery from a natural disaster, or medical condition?
Gun violence is a major burden on the state, with all its attendant health and criminal justice problems.
The interesting dimension of this for me is that the argument in favor of guns is that people have the right to defend their personal freedom. If your freedom is under attack, you are prepared. The train of logic then goes that the existence of these guns should act as not only a deterrent, but also as a sort of antidote to anxiety.
In fact, it’s the opposite. More guns means more violence, not less. The US is a violent and fearful nation compared with all other industrialized countries. So, the stated objectives of gun ownership have not come to pass.
It seems the stated reasons for the epidemic of gun ownership are not the real reasons, and that gun ownership is no longer beneficial here.
The upside of gun ownership for hobbyists is massively outbalanced by the downside costs to our society.
That our gun laws are as they are is just a sore reminder of the insanity that is allowed to persist when there is a power imbalance tilted to a special interest.
Jaded Parole: Not Yet, anyway….
I for one am a liberal and progressive with a few assault rifles and some boxes of ammo stashed away. It’s very important that people like us don’t bury our heads in the sand, and that we are ready, if need be to stand our ground and protect our communities from whatever the burgeoning fascist regime has planned. I hope I never have to use them, but it Is my responsibility to care for them and maintain proficiency.
Another stupid comment by one who is obviously ignorant. TERRY-B, there are adequate laws against having bombs and or machine guns. Grow up! If I’m ignorant about any specific subject, which all of us are, I try to not make a fool of myself and write ignorant comments about it. It’s alright for me to ask questions about thngs I don’t know about, but that’s me. Suit yourself if you wish to look foolish.
terryb–good observation. It’s a reason I kept my Anti-Armor field manual. PJD–I was once an NRA member; do I conform to your stereotype?
IMO, the militia of today would need to look like Hezbollah in many respects, not just weaponry.
Esarge–I trust you’re working on training a militia “fire team” that would be far more effective than just your holding-out as an individual “partisan.”
i thought the original amendment was for a militia to protect themselves against the government. if that is no longer a problem, then why have guns at all? is there a stipulation in the amendment?
“All those guns _might_ be an asset if they were in the hands of people comitted to building community and class solidarity and making sure the capitalist bosses know who is really boss.”
That speaks volumes about what your methodology is, for building ‘community’ and ‘class solidarity’. You use guns to threaten people into it. Either yours or the ones you want the State to use on your behalf to do so.
Thanks for proving libertarian critiques of what you rest your ideas upon…threats and violence. We offer you real cooperation and an open hand, you offer everyone else threats and jails unless they act to satisfy your ideas.
“Don’t ever get lost in traffic at night in Newark, Philadelphia, Trenton, Houston, San Francisco and many many other American cities and not have a weapon…”
So you are saying your are even afraid to DRIVE in a city without a gun? That is paranoid, and may I humbly suggest, maybe a bit racist, nonsense. Have you ever even actually lived in a city? I walk, and ride the bus, quite unarmed through the poor neighborhoods here in Pittsburgh all the time without any problem.
I even has some white suburbanite once tell me to stay out of the Capitol hill/Eastern Market area of DC - a tony neighborhood of congressional aides and lobbyists. Apprently, this person only feels safe in their big SUV going to a shopping mall or a wal-mart.
There are shootings of course, but they are almost always associated with gang members settling scores. Strangers, especially white ones, minding their own business are safe.
And statistics have shown that the homicide rates in rural counties the south plus Wyoming and Nevada are often higher than the distressed city neighborhoods.
Also I’ve found that ther are many urban neighborhoods where people look out after their neighbors to a greater degree than the suburbs - where you could die and rot in your house for a year before your neighbors, absorbed with their lawns, neighbors checked up on you.
“seems to me that the right wingers want to hit the 1st amendment and the progressives, the 2nd”
To be fair, some on both sides are working against both. McCain comes to mind on the right, attempting to place caveats on free speech when it comes to campaigns, and also supporting gun limitations and even registration if I remember correctly.
I just read the article and my first thought was, “Thank GOD!!!” We’re protected!!!
I was a little concerned about the sanctity of the Constitution, of all of us losing our rights…now, I’m like, YEAH!!!! Let’s get out there and hit the streets! We have back up!!!
i think you are all missing the point.
quoting the article:
“Weapons ownership may be correlated with rising levels of wealth…”
that says it all right there. it’s no coincidence that the nation w/the most small arms has the most nukes, subs, planes, bombs, bullets, spies/spyware, prisons, prisoners, cops, crime, illegal wars, etc. obviously as individuals & as a society, we spend way way more than anybody else on guns. note the connection b/n wealth and wasting money on this crap. you get it? who has the wealth in this country?
and we are more insecure, unhappy, and unhealthy than other countries w/comparable national wealth. and far more violent.
but we got our guns. idiots. do you ever stop to think that rich people want you poor schlubs to have guns? i know you think you are gonna take out blackwater when they come for you (what a laugh), but you got no education, no health care, no prospects, are always fighting about gay marriage and abortion and WHAT ELSE? gun rights. the guvmint can’t build levees or any of that crap, but let’s make damn sure they don’t get our guns!
so you got your guns. and no solidarity. think there’s any connection b/n the way you finger your gun as you look at your neighbor and the way the US pushes the button when it looks at the middle east?
“That speaks volumes about what your methodology is, for building ‘community’ and ‘class solidarity’. You use guns to threaten people into it. Either yours or the ones you want the State to use on your behalf to do so.’
Surely, you can’t be so ignorant of the history of class conflict - where until “socialistic” measures like the New Deal and the Wagner Act, the bosses had everything and the workers were slaves. This is a history we will soon be repeating.
Recall, from history, the the rail yards of 1877, Haymarket, Homestead in 1892, Matewan, Ludlow, Sacco, Vanzetti, Joe Hill, Frank Little, Fannie Sellins, the imprisonment of Eugene Debs, the Palmer raids, Harlan, etc, etc…
Didn’t think you did…
“so you got your guns. and no solidarity. think there’s any connection between the way you finger your gun as you look at your neighbor and the way the US pushes the button when it looks at the middle east?”
Well said!
canuckchuck, LOL, I have to agree.
What a scary country.
What are Americans so afraid of? Or is it just part of bullying? I have never owned a gun because I don’t want to kill anyone. I might get one for defense, however, with all these sociopaths running around ready to kill someone. I’d aim to disable them and not to kill them, if they were threatening me with a gun.
I guess I was born in the wrong country……..(sigh)
PJD. I didn’t write what you implied. I wrote, don’t get lost in any large city at night and not have a weapon. I don’t do that.
However, I grew up in Philadelphia, 54th and Walnut after moving from an address near Schoolcraft and Grand River in Detroit.
Seven years ago a good friend of ours, who drove tour buses For STARR Tours out of Trenton NJ, took a party to downtown Philly to a restaurant and his bus was shot full of holes. Luckily, no one on his bus was hit. I will stand by my statement, getting lost in many neighborhods at night in most large American cities is taking your life in your hands. Racism? Why did you bring that up PJD, I didn’t.
Then you blithly state: Strangers, especially whites minding their own business are safe. UMmmm,any racist undertones in that comment PJD? With your racist opinion, I guess those three African American kids who were lined up against a wall and executed in Newark last week in broad daylight, wished they were white. I bet they also wished they had been packing a gun.
Those types of crimes are daily occurances in our large cities PJD. Haven’t you heard of the numerous daily gun killing in New Orleans, Houston, Philly, Chicago, LA, Pheonix, etc. in the past few years? Talk to some good city cops and get yourself educated. Well PJD, you often have your head stuck up in the wrong place of course, hard for you to read the newspapers I suppose.
funny how some of you read an article about “gun culture” and said: here they again, trying to take away MY gun.
I pity those who are so insecure that they can’t sleep without having a gun within reach. The USA is an extremely immature and wild nation, let by a bunch of ignorant, arrogant and dishonest bastards.
The guns in the USA are symbols of the fear and ignorance of it’s citizens. Guns are relics of the past and will soon be relegated to history.
A couple of points.
Any study is only as good as the data. So, in determining number of guns in a country per person, how good was their data in say Colombia? Or in Iraq? I had to laugh when the spokesperson said that we think some areas are awash in guns but this story shows its maybe not true. Maybe its just that there aren’t good records of how many guns there are in Colombia?
Second, I happen to have a great deal of respect for the Second Amendment. We’ve thrown out some key pieces of it, but I like the general idea. The general idea was that the power of force stayed in the hands of the people. Remember, this was written by radicals who truly believed in democracy. And also remember this was written when there was no standing army. So the entire concept of this admendment was that guns stayed in the hands of the citizens. When the citizens felt they needed defending, they took their guns and formed a militia to do the job.
The key concept is that the power of force stayed in the hands of the people. There might be one sherriff. But most of the time he needed deputies from the community or a posse formed to use force. So, if the community didn’t like the way he was using his office, they could vote with their feet and not supply him with the force he needed to do what we was trying to do.
Also, I grew up in an area and a time that was awash with guns. East Tennessee in the late 60’s / early 70’s. Pretty much everyone hunted and almost everyone had guns. The violence rate between citizens in this area was almost zero. At the high school I went to, I’d say a huge percentage of the male students had access to guns at home. But during my four years there, no one ever resolved a fight by going home and getting a gun and coming back shooting.
Its not the gun that kills. Its the person behind the gun. Someone has to pick up the gun and aim it and pull the trigger. If all you do is try to make the gun illegal, someone who still wants to kill someone will either get an illegal gun or find some other tool to kill with. The key is that you have to somehow do something about the fact that there are so many people in America these days who are perfectly willing to pick up that gun, aim it and kill someone.
To go back to the article, I’d bet in East Tennessee when I lived there it was actually more than one gun per person in the society. Given the number of hunting weapons I saw in most houses, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was 3 or 4 or more per person. But it was also a very safe place to live.
Shooting at each other with the weapons of today is just a technologically sophisticated way of throwing rocks at each other, just like the cavemen did.
Our technological abilities have far surpassed the evolution of our brutish natures, and we may yet end up back to throwing rocks at each other.
Power actuated fasteners are useful in construction. A big industry wants to continue to sell arms and whether the argument for or against guns leads directly to qualities within ourselves that are in need of disarmament, gun fans on the left and right should note the carnage of recent history is surrounded by a whole load of guns. First person shooters can keep the alleged entertainment value of shooting safely in fantasy land, or conversely, add to more real world gun violence.
Making a statement like that. Goat must be a Republican. Keep the weapons out of the civilian homes then they will come in at will.Then Mr. Goat what will you do?
Almost nobody I know has a gun. I’m sure that my friends are not a representative sample, but if there are 9 guns for every 10 people and I know hardly anyone with a gun, then someone must own more than one. I guess once you own a gun, you need a second one to protect the first one or something like that.
I would ask someone I know why people have multiple guns, but since I don’t have any friends with guns, I’m not sure who to ask. I guess I must be weird. Oh well, it could be worse. I could be a normal American and then I’d have to buy a gun.
“I really like all these “tolerant” people informing us as to how rednecky and racist NRA members are. It kind of reminds me of certain ignorant people who I have heard explain how ALL blacks are lazy or how ALL Mexicans steal. Real intelligent…”
Not too bright yourself, Seventh Son, when you try to draw an analogy like that. Doesn’t it occur to you that there is a fundamental difference between ones racial group and an organization one belongs to voluntarily? Would you, for example, say it’s unfair to call Republicans pro-war, anti-choice and homophobic? Personally I think characterizing NRA members as only rednecky and racist is quite generous.
Thank You COMarc . . . .
Sorry Folks but this “Liberal” will stay armed and will protect myself and my family as needed. The rest of you can dial 911 and wait 20 to 30 minutes for help to get to you.
Any police officer will tell you that they do not prevent crime . . . They investigate crime. Even TV shows illustrate that the police come after the crime has been commited. There are plenty of nut cases out there running around, so when one knocks down your door you tell him how you know the problems that he has faced and understand him. Meanwhile if someone like me lives near by, you might get to know them just in case that 911 call really does take 30 minutes.
Kem,
it is not racism to understand that race is a factor in things. Racism-denial IS a form or racism, as sean Gonsalves wrote on this site a couple weeks back, as the behavior of the Jena high School administrators in Louisiana demonstrate.
You should consider that maybe you had some pretty unlucky bad experiences, and it might be coloring your views. I lived in a number of years near rough neighborhoods in Pittsburgh, spent a lot of time in a lot of other rrough areas, and never had a single problem.
Also, you need to put the the sensationalist newspaper and TV stories in perspective. That same day that someone gets shot, several died in car, motorcycle and pedestrian accidents, dozen’s had heart attacks, many others succumbed to cancer, etc… And that people who get shot was likely involved in criminal gang activity. So, for law abiding citizens, who would have no interest spending any time in the roughhest areas anyway, the risk is prety damn small.
Dear Mendo,
And, you have actually had your door knocked down a couple time already, right?
Turn off you goddam paranoia inducing TV’s!
KEM PATRICK says” Don’t ever get lost in traffic at night in Newark, Philadelphia, Trenton, Houston, San Francisco, Detropit, Chicago and many many other American cities, and not have a weapon.”
Well I’m not sure about Detropit, but I did live in San Francisco for 20 years and I don’t recall anyone getting killed because they were lost in traffic without a gun. There were alot of people who got killed lost in traffic with out a car (we call them pedestrians or bikers) but I believe that if you are lost in traffic and you shoot one of the other drivers it just makes the traffic worse. So in San Francisco we generally thought that was a bad idea. However, as I said I’m not sure about some of those other places especially Detropit.
My son and his girlfriend took a road trip across the United States in her day glow green VW van about 5 years ago or so.
They were in Florida and got lost in Miami looking for a restaurant. While stopping to check their directions a policeman pulled over and approached their van.
He noticed the out of state plates and wondered about why they had stopped. They explained they were lost. Then he said, “Do you have a gun in your vehicle?” And my son exclaimed, truthfully, “No!” The policeman said, “Well, you should!”
As a Libertarian, I have this to say, “Guns don’t kill people, Republicans do.”.
http://www.libertystickers.com/guns_dont_kill_people_republicans_do.htm
As stated above–people should be able to have access to tanks, nukes, bio weapons-microwave weapons-anything that the government has.
The Nra is against trigger locks,
its against gun registration
it is against banning canned hunts(where domesticated or old circus and zoo animals are let loose and shot at close range)
they are complete aholes–in the 60s their president even said that it was ok that innocent civilians died to protect the right.
Until humans can manufacture bullets from their rear ends, gun possession isnt a right.
“Do you have a gun in your vehicle?” And my son exclaimed, truthfully, “No!” The policeman said, “Well, you should!”
I assume they were white. They would have recieved a completely different treatment at the hands of the cop (especially if they did have a gun) if they were black.
A gun is a gun, but I wonder how many of the 38 out of a 100
Iraqis have an AK-47 vs. the 90 out of 100 Americans. Don’t
know if Finland has a citizen army, but otherwise I would bet
most of their guns are for hunting. Doesn’t mean anything to
me when US citizens have 3 times as many guns as the police
and military - I’m sure the “killing power” of police and
military is substantially more. I am not discounting the
amount of gun violence that takes place in the US.
Bottom line, not good, but the statistics really don’t
explain what’s what. It’s easier to assess what maybe
should be done with better information.
The luggage of this US Army Major affirms the point of this article.
Bullets in US major’s baggage in Chennai, India
By Our Correspondent
Chennai, Aug. 28: A US Army major on his way to Paris was briefly detained at Chennai airport when 20 rounds of ammunition was discovered in his baggage. The CISF in charge of airport security seized the bullets, but later allowed the American officer to continue on his journey to Paris.
Major M. Richard, 50, of the US Army arrived at the airport early Tuesday morning to board an Air France flight to Paris from Chennai. The security personnel attached to the Central Industrial Security Force, who carried out a routine baggage check, found that he was carrying 20 bullets in his luggage. “There were 15 .22 calibre bullets and five 9 mm bullets. When questioned, the US officer pleaded ignorance, saying he had no idea how the bullets happened to be in his luggage. He later claimed that he had a valid gun licence and had carried the bullets accidentally,” airport sources said.
The CISF seized the ammunition from the major and detained him briefly for questioning. “He claimed that he had come to the US consulate in Chennai in connection with some work and gave an apology letter saying that he had carried the bullets by mistake,” the sources added.
The security officials decided to let him fly to Paris, but without the bullets. “Usually we allow people to fly even if they are found carrying bullets after verifying the details furnished,” an airport official said. Maj. Richard left for Paris by a 1.30 am flight.
“It is not clear how he managed to land in Chennai with bullets in his bag,” the official added.
The seized bullets were later handed over to the airport police by the CISF.
I wouldn’t be without my legal carry weapon. It’s better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.
Dialing 9-11 is after the fact.
So let me see if we’ve got this right. Not only is the military-industrial-mediaplex (MIMP) arming the armies of the world and making obscene profits that way from tax payers’ money, but they’re also massively arming civilians and taking away more of what’s left of hard-earned cash.
Talk about setting up The War Game to play off all sides and finance never-ending profits. The MIMP has got to be severely trimmed down. It doesn’t belong in the world we want to live in.
The day I first visited America is indelibly printed in memory. I walked into immigration at Los Angeles international airport and saw an armed policeman standing there, pistol on his hip. It made me, quite literally, stop and change my viewpoint of America as civil society in a single instant. In the previous 25 years of active social living in my own country I had never seen an armed policeman. It told me one thing immediately: I have arrived in a dangerous uncivilized place, where reason does not prevail over force.
It’s a few years later now, I see no reason whatsoever to revise that conclusion from any viewpoint at this time. America is a fearful immature nation of warmongering, murdering, hypocritical barbarians whose pretense to being a civilized peace-loving society has not just worn thin, it has been exposed as the lie it truly is.
Of all nations, America is the most corrupt nation and society, because it pretends to be a peaceful, peace-loving and god-fearing friend to the world. None of this is anything more than pretense; the packaging of lies with illusions that pretend to truth, but which in reality reveal the most dishonest and duplicitous nature of the Duperpower, worshipping Mars the God of War, for all that America claims to do otherwise. America’s economy is dependent on war. America is a militant nation. These are demonstrable irrefutable facts.
Other nations, smaller, smarter, wiser and far more honest have long since found ways to live in peace in the world. These are the examples worthy of the honorific Super power; the power of reason , compassion and civil social intelligence. The American Way, the American Model, the American Dream whatever you want to want to call it is a dismal failure; nothing to be proud of, nothing to emulate or share with the world. From America’s claim to be the first to fly, to the perception created through American mythology of the Founding Fathers as “sole inventors of democracy” when they drew upon the wisdom and reason of Deganiwida, Hiawatha, the Greeks and others, American lies are simply that. The Iroquois Nation, one of the greatest civilizations on earth had it right when it came to civil society, and Americans in their base and barbaric ignorance labeled Iroquois democracy and sophisticated culture “savage” and broke 400 years of peace, replacing true civilization with persecution and perfidy. Committing this act of barbarity was not enough, to add insult to injury (and though freely and generously offered) America then plundered the ideas of the Great Peace of the Six Nations in one of the most debased acts of plagiarism ever committed in order to accrue to its early nationhood some semblance of honor to cover the gross treachery of a childish nation. What a shameful barbaric and dishonest act. Perfidy and persecution; the true American Way.
As a nation, America needs to get honest and straight not only with the world that truly wants peace, but with itself. However, that is going to be the most difficult of tasks for at every level of American society it is the lies America believes and teaches, and the lies you tell each other (and the world) daily to conduct finance, commerce, and diplomacy that make America the most base and corrupt nation on Earth today (Corruption Index aside; because it is incomplete). American society needs nothing more than a complete and humbling overhaul. Then you’ll be on the honest road to recovery.
The mythology America has foisted on the world and upon itself needs to be rewritten and then taught at the educational level. Pick up the pens and not the guns and start doing some honest assiduous fact checking of the mythology. Therein, find your courage, some sorely needed humility and atone for the stains you have placed on the annals of human history in the name of humanity’s highest concepts and aspirations.
Go back to the Six Nations and humbly beg their forgiveness and place the Peacemaker in his rightful place with the Founding Fathers and thus remove one of the first of the Great Lies of America. Then sit down and with an attitude of attentive humility and respect find out from this great people what you should do to still the prattle of the forked American tongue. Unlike Americans they do know truth; their oral histories are impeccable, unlike the words from so many American mouths and hacks.
No, I am not a Native American, nor a member of the Iroquois nation, but as one who came to know them and their place in history for what it is, they make me proud to be a human being. And I should be proud if I were ever born into one of those Great Nations to have such a heritage as what they had before the fledgling nation of the United States of America broke them. The situation they were in that lead to the formation of the Great Peace is not unlike that situation that America finds itself in today.
Herein, find some solutions that are more easily accomplished than curbing the MIMP. The seeds of rebuilding America lie in the things America destroyed, twisted, broke and stole. But who among you has the courage to embrace such truth and put it into action? And what do you really mean when you say “rebuild America”? Because, you know, the Mother of All Makeovers is what is needed, and perhaps that’s language America could understand today.
If we are to look to causes, then we must take into account that it is America’s Mythology that creates the problem America is to the world and real Americans. If America truly wants to earn respect and lead the world by example rather than claims that mock democracy (”Leader of the Free World” - Oh, yeah? Stole that election too did you?) and freedom then this is part of what you have to do. American Mythology–The Great Lies of America (not a book I’m writing)–is at the heart of the corruption of America, it raises a nation of liars, who then lie to its people, from Oval Office to evangelical priest’s pulpit (and that’s just for starters).
One of the reasons Americans cannot confront and manage effectively the liars (in Oval Office, Media, Commerce, and organized religion) Americans complain about is because you have–as a people–already accepted the many lies of your mythology. The history America claims to be so proud of, the very document which you trumpet as a singularly white-American invention and founding principles of your “great” nation, is a fiction used to manipulate American sensibility every day. So stop already. You want an honest society? Stop the lies, the lying and the liars. Now.
The benefits to be had are great. Truth blows the lies away, and the liars right along with them. Any long-lasting solution must confront the mythology and set it straight.
ibertas fugit and Kem have it right if the neo-con corporate fascists declare martial law, and the nicey, nice corporate Hilary Clintonesque liberals seize the guns, how are we going to fight back? Do you think Chavez or the Zapitistas want gun control? Smart leftists defend the 2nd amendment.
Hah! Thats what I’m talking about. A unarmed man is a subject an armed man is a citizen, let’s hope that when the time comes people will stand.
WILL YOU STAND?
This is the original intent of the Founding Fathers. The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. PERIOD.
“You cannot invade America, there is a rifle behind each blade of grass”
-Some Japanese General WWII
Find out how to become a rifleman http://rwva.org
Jim Barr: Why you need more than one gun…
Well I like to have one that will shoot 223, 308, 7.62×39, 30-06, 7.62×54R, 45, 38, 357, 9MM, 7.62×25…. I’m sure I forgot a few. See, you never know what kind of ammo will be available.
Enn, you are either incredibly naive or just choose to spout off. Are you telling me that in most countries policeman DON’T have guns?? Ok, I know in the UK the average police officer doesn’t, but they have swat teams and rapid response teams and access to enough of them. And to think you have arrived in an ‘uncivilized place’ because a police officer has a gun points to me of someone who had already made up his mind and is using any information possible (no matter how implausible) to support it.
You cannot point to any pre-1700 society and claim they are any less historically peaceful. Europe was home to some of the most barbaric explorers in the world, landing in places like Mexico and literally slaughtering thousands. Taking over entire countries because they could. The only reason we are blaming Americans and not Britons right now is because the colonies were able to fight them long enough so they gave in. Many citizens of what became the USA in the 1700/early 1800s were Europeans by birth, so while people may blame ‘Americans’ for the treachery to the native Americans, they were English, Spanish, and French. No one really mentions how the British and French treated the Indians during the Revolutionary War in these arguments, now do they. There is your history of violence. (It doesn’t excuse issues today though, that I will agree is purely an American item.) Of course, since the above mentioned groups were stealing land and misplacing natives for a thousand years before Independence Day, it might be a little ingrained into our genes.
It seems you have accepted the lies of your own country since you failed to mention the above facts yourself. The only difference between US and European conquests is they have had to give them all back already so they can cast a blind eye to their barbaric pasts. Look at the 1800s and how France and England invaded and sought to conquer and enslave the Middle East, South America, and Asia continents.
If America is as bad as you say, it must be the way we were raised.
Not to mention those peaceful Iroquios fighting wars and taking slaves.
PJD, I’m fully aware of what racism is. I happen to be a white male, some of my good friends are black, most of the men I represented as a Teamsters Union Shop steward were black or latino, we all got along just fine. The problems I had were with white men, all five were arrested and served long prison terms, two are still in prison for murder. Not my murder BTW. Yes, I was lucky, lucky to be armed and know how to use a weapon.
The problem is not guns, this country had armed citizens from the get go and our very first government insured it stayed that way. Someone says they don’t know if any of their friends own a gun. Most of my frieds don’t know I own a gun, or three guns. We don’t discuss home defense weapons. I’m not panarnoid about sleeping at night without having a gun close by, and if I drive I don’t carry and I’m not afraid. Unless one is running certain types of business, a gun at the business is probably not necessary.
If any here ever finds themselves in a situation where their lives, or their family was in mortal danger and they didn’t have access to a gun to protect themselves, they’d sure wish they had one andknew how to use it.
That cop in Miami was right. many foreign tourists have been robbed and or murdered in Miami. Because of that, car rental agencies stopped putting their little ID logos on their vehicles so the bad guys wouldn’t know the driver may be tourists and an easy mark for robbery. By the way, Detroit, is spelled differently if one makes a speeling eror and the edit don’t work rite.
The problem in America is not the guns, the problem is a flawed society, a society who has over the years, allowed our educational system to become a world wide joke. A society who allows excessive violence in our movies, video games, etc., and has put the poor and middle class into such a state of financial duress, so that both parent must work to just survive. Americans are a society where credit by banks and financial institutions was allowed to be given so easily. The neo-cons wanted us to be a buying society and we are.
We are no longer farmers, small business persons, craftsmen, seamen and good hard working people. Now inaddition our jos are being outsourced to other country’s. We have allowed drugs to become rampant. Hell, Mexicans are growing pot in our National forests in California, it isn’t safe to hike in the woods there. We primarily make our money from waging wars and sellng madness, like DU and other poisons. This subject is guns, but it should be ‘people’ and why we people don’t love one another like we should.
Most of them are handguns. We’ve got dangerous cars too, but we need a license to drive them.
We’re supposed to be a Christian nation so “pass the Lord and praise the ammunition”….uh, well, err…something like that.
That’s right Ezeflyer, the problem there is, if we had to register and license our weapons and our government evolved from a Democracy to facism, from there to a total dictatorship, they’d know where every gun was located. I sure don’t agree with the NRA on every issue, but I do agree with some.
Enn: I just spent an hour writing a response to what you wrote. I couldn’t post it here. I should have it bound and published.
I just want to tell you that I honor what you said and I thank you for saying it.
” I like guns
and guns like me.
I like guns
They made Am-er-ic-a free”
-D.I.
I’m not afraid of every day criminals. I”m afraid of cops….which in many cases is the same thing as being a criminal. I don’t like the idea of having armed law enforcement. I dont feel safe that they have guns. Why should I? Do they only shoot bad guys?
I am not ashamed of being afraid.What? Are we in kindergarten now? Saying people are in fear is the truth. If yer not at least worried, yer delusional. Fear is a survival instinct. If your not scared about where it looks like we’re headed, you’re way too assimilated into society. It’s getting scarier by the minute. Unrealistic fears are paranoia. But, civilization is an unrealistic unsustainable endeavor that at the moment looks kinda fragile (ya think?). Do I trust blackwater or the pigs to protect me when the shit hits the fan? Good luck.
On why ya need more than one gun:
Besides the excellent notion of being prepared to use whatever ammo is available,
I need at least one sidearm for close encounters/self-defense. I need a shotgun for close encounters/self defence and hunting. I need a hunting rifle for hunting. I need a bow for bow hunting. When (not if) it all comes crashing down, I’ll at least be able to provide food for myself and my community. There won’t be the local butcher shop , let alone costco. Plus, who will still be driving? Armed uniformed men under the guise of law enforcement.
Never thought I sound so much like my right-wimg evangelical christian father in law. But while he’s afraid of “the rapist/burglar” I’m afraid of martial law and or fascist law enforcement. He’s afraid of the rogue criminal element. I’m afraid of gridcrash, and the ensuing chaos. Are these unreasonable fears? Maybe. But I ain’t readin’ or hearing much promise for our situation right now. So I guess it won’t hurt me to take some basic handgun safety and firearms classes. Become as proficient with the weapon as possible. learn some skills. Learn to hunt and dress my kill. Tan hides. Etc. We ain’t in Safeway no more toto. If you think all we need is a good decent leader, you’re dreaming. They can’t tell us the truth because it’s too negative. Who would ever vote for such a negative person? So they can only lie and say that they’ll fix things.Blow smoke up our asses. And most believe it because it’s too scary to acknowledge where we really are. Chronic positivism. Chronic hope. What a bunch o’ shit. And…y’all know it. So, I can’t see how we’re going to be able to continue with this ” high standard of life” much longer. Just trying to be practical. Hell, most americans will starve to death when peak oil hits us just because they don’t even now how to get food other than by driving to a store and purchasing it. Or going out to eat. Next time yer in a resaraunt, really savor it because, you just never know how many 2000 mile dinners are left.
At least the cure for obesity is on the way.
When one Stupid kid who was clinicly ruled as a danger to him and others con get his hands on 2 handguns as wast 32 other innocent kids…..It might be time to revise our laws and ensure real gun control. I’m not saying the gov should take our guns away….but dam If anyone has a black out and the DMV finds out they treatin to take your licence away. Why are Gun Laws so lax and Car laws so stringent?
There is absoluly no reason SemiAuto Rifles should be legal…If you hunt with an AK your an idiot.
Silencers should be ilegal….If you ever need to shoot\ your gun it’s will aways be better to draw attn to your current distress (again if you hunt with a silencer your an idiot) unless you are doing something illeagle.
Classes should be manditory for licence….These should be fairly extencive with a big section dedicated to keeping guns away from children.
Keep gus off the street by fining those who “lose” their guns.
Thats my thoughts, anyway.
Not only do we have the highest rate of gun ownership, but also the highest rate of murder and crimes committed by guns. I would say that the statistics speak for themselves. Owning a gun does not prevent gun crimes. It seems to be encouraging them.
I’ve got six in my closet. Grew up on a ranch. 46 years and counting, still haven’t shot anyone.
“What are Americans so afraid of? Or is it just part of bullying? I have never owned a gun because I don’t want to kill anyone. I might get one for defense, however, with all these sociopaths running around ready to kill someone. I’d aim to disable them and not to kill them, if they were threatening me with a gun.”
LOL, you are right, you shouldn’t own a gun with that attitude. If you think in that split second when you are fearful for your life you are going to be able to think it through and decide to “aim to disable” you are naive and foolish and you would end up getting yourself killed in the process. Your best bet is to submit and hope the rapist/muderer/robber whatever is feeling particularly generous towards you…
Also, if you did manage to squeeze off a disabling shot, which I highly doubt you’d be able to accomplish, he would then sue your ass into the ground. You’ve watched too many movies…
I have owned guns since I was 19 and am trained in their safety and use. Rule number one in gun safety and ownership is “Never point a weapon at someone if you don’t intend to use it”…This is a surefire way to get killed. My Dad was a cop and instilled this in me, he also taught me hand to hand combat and self protection when I was a kid.
It would be wonderful if we didn’t have to worry about criminals but we do. I’ve been raped twice (prior to my purchasing a gun) and I don’t intend to have it happen again. Having a gun equalizes the situation for me at 130lbs. Honestly, what would you do if you came home one night to find a man in your house waiting on you? What if he had a knife? I walk into my empty house with my finger on the trigger of a gun inside my purse, I know what I WOULD DO….
Right on Girl….Maybe only women should have guns…I know way too many Boys who think they are men with guns… They scare me cuz they literaly think they are in some action movie…It’s stupid.
“Thousands of arms supplied to Iraq by the United States are believed to have been acquired by insurgents through rogue elements in the Iraqi security forces.”
Mmm, Thanks George W Terrorist-maker!
Mirf59 writes: “…The US is a violent and fearful nation compared with all other industrialized countries. So, the stated objectives of gun ownership have not come to pass.”
I agree along that line; -so many guns, and yet the nation of N. America seems riddled with fear. Coincidence? Or associated factors?
(And thanks Enn for yr worthy contribution here).
Kem writes: “This subject is guns, but it should be ‘people’ and why we people don’t love one another like we should.”
~ Agree!
A change of consciousness is sorely (urgently!) needed. A change of attitude, wherein we do not all constantly look at each other as potential foes, but more as potential *friends and neighbors*? Paranoia is all about fear, and a **fear-ridden society** is not a healthy one, it is, -in fact, quite sick.
Does owning a weapon ‘MAKE’ a person feel safe? Or that concept somewhat mythical / illusory? A friend of mine, -an attractive young female, once hitchhiked right across America, on her own. She merely carried a pepper pot for her protection, (and never had to use it!)
Is it a lie, -that bit on the bank note- which reads, “In God we trust?”
Should it now say, “Only in GUNS we trust” ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There was a little strip cartoon back in the Vietnam war era, it depicted (in the first four frames) some American soldiers travelling -quite lost, through endless dense jungle.
Finally they came upon a military base filled to overflowing with all manner of weaponry, and one of the GIs says, “Thank goodness, *civilization* at last!”
It seems our vision of what is *civilized* and what is not, varies quite a lot. For me, a truly civilized country (and thence world) is one where people are not armed to the teeth and ready in an instant to be *UN-civil* and blow each other to Kingdom come.
Yes, there are risks in this world, but I’m personally not afraid of death, and choose to be unarmed, AND live without fear, as that would diminish my quality of life.
“Violence is mis-directed energy” said Buddha.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Switzerland is often cited in this sort of discussion. It has a high level of gun ownership, and yet a very low rate of gun crime.
So we can viably ask why is it that N. America has so many guns, AND so much gun crime. I opine that it could be something in the emotional / mental make-up of N Americans which leads to such frequent gun ownership and thence the ubiquitous killings.
-And disrespect of *life*?
-And too many murders (and other fear-inducing stuff) broadcast in the media?
I think we need to look more closely at why we are so often SO fearful, and SO *AGGRESSIVE*! and all-too-ready to react so violently towards each other.
Therein may lay the answer to many of the questions we struggle with?
The horribly unimaginative American movies and television shows are full of guns and killing. European and other non-American movies and tv shows often get by with no guns or killing at all in them. Many Americans sit in front of the tv every night watching their closest “friends” run around with pistols. Of course they want to be like their heroic friends, so they get pistols too.
To: KEM PATRICK - You are quite right. If we had to “license” our guns, the government would know exactly where they all are.
But thanks to this administration, and the Democrat “going along to get alongers” and the “legal spying”, they can now read our every word.
Anybody wanna talk about something that’s REALLY dangerous???
Almost every word typed on this website.
the only person I ever knew got their door kicked open by thugs, the intruders were a DEA swat-type team with all the latest toys, s.a.w.’s levelled, screaming Get On the Floor! how much trouble would the residents (a mild-mannered christian couple and their adopted kid) have been in if the hair-trigger cops had even SEEN a gun anywhere near someone’s hand? heck, US cops will shoot you if you have a cell phone or a wallet in your hand — if they are scared enough or pumped-up enough. think you can outshoot a terror squad that crashes into your house fully armed and prepared at 11pm when you’re just having a normal evening and about to head off to bed after the late movie? yeah right.
the coppers in this incident were called in by a bogus “suspicion of drug activity” anonymous tip — probably placed by a vindictive boozy neighbour after a dispute over vehicle parking on a narrow street. it was all resolved, no one got hurt, the cops never apologised, my friends moved to another town. but it just kind of illustrates for me that this whole Rambo fantasy about using your gun collection to defend yourself against door-kicking invasions is just that — a fantasy. armed resistance happens collectively, commensally, by partisan/guerrilla struggle, not by individual home owners defending their mcmansions (or cult encampments — remember Waco anyone?) like microwarlords.
Honestly, what would you do if you came home one night to find a man in your house waiting on you? What if he had a knife?
I think I’d turn right around and leave the house, is what. but admittedly my house is deliberately set up so that it would be damn difficult for an intruder to get in by any door or window w/o leaving a lot of sign that I could read and respond to. tradecraft rather than armaments, in my case.
but why stop there?
what if he was lurking in the front yard? what if he was the taxi driver? what if he was the adult ed teacher who asked me to stay after class to discuss something? what if he was the guy I had just started going out with? what if he was my father or brother or uncle or the family priest? am I supposed to walk through every party, every meeting, every elevator ride, every date, every stroll in the park, with one hand in my purse and a finger on the trigger? totally understand the response (PTSD is living hell and whatever gets a woman through it is OK by me) but it hardly seems a generalisable solution…. see good book Her Wits About Her for many strategies women have used to survive, defuse, or avoid a sexual assault, with and without weapons.
OTOH an old feminist friend of mine used to say that every little girl should have a handgun surgically grafter to her hand at birth: “It could save so much trouble.”
Well, nothing like gun talk to bring them out of the woodwork.
So, has anyone changed their minds about Americans and guns? Do you really think Americans are gong to give up their guns?
I have two guns, a shotgun and a .22. Neither is considered assault weapons. When I was a kid, I was an NRA member and reached Sharpshooter level. I hunted and shot trap with my shotgun.
I haven’t picked up either gun in years. While I have some sentimental attachment to them because of their history with me, I’m considering selling them because I’ve lost interest in them. I’m under no illusion that they will help me against any army. Armies have guns that can shoot projectiles through houses and metal, mine can’t. Those who are reassured by their guns are living a fool’s dream. They are toys compared to military weapons.
That Americans are fearful is not in dispute. That they play out their anger with guns is a reasonable conclusion. That they are willing to do something rational about it is very much up for debate.
Let’s watch…
“All those guns _might_ be an asset if they were in the hands of people comitted to building community and class solidarity and making sure the capitalist bosses know who is really boss.
But unfortunately, they are largely in the hands of racist, neo-confascist NRA’ers or the sociopathically greedy “libertarians.”
Well that means then that statistically 90% of Americans are racist neo-fascists. And the polls are showing that isn’t the case.
Michael Moore owns a gun and belongs to the NRA.
My father who is a Democrat, owns one.
I don’t own one and don’t want one.
“Personally I think characterizing NRA members as only rednecky and racist is quite generous.”
I don’t know any NRA members, but Michael Moore illustrated in one of his books (Dude Where’s My Country? I think) that the NRA is out of touch with its own people.
As I’ve said before on this issue, I am on the fence about gun control. There are times when I feel that we should get rid of them all. But on the other hand, I can understand why many people feel a need to protect themselves. The local media outlets do overhype violent crime. They did it with those ids in Oakland who were assaulted. There are those who suggest that if they had a gun, the ordeal would have been nipped in the bud.
People also have to keep in mind that people who are victims of violent crime are often scarred by it. It’s easy to tell people “just get over it,” but unless it has happened to you, it’s hard to understand.
I always find this sort of discussion funny. The righties want to make out blacks as gun-weilding predators. But then the left does the same to white guys. As if every white guy with a gun is a racist, paranoid monster living in a compound somewhere. The white gun owner and the black gun owner most likely are just looking to protect themselves and their families.
I remember reading an article about gun buy-back programs where they interviewed a black police officer. He was against them because he claimed that the only guns they got were old useless ones from law-abiding citizens or they were just from people who were worried about their kids playing with them. He also said something to the effect that “the homies ‘aint givin’ up theirs.”
So let’s ALL demonize and cast aspersions on one another why don’t we? Let’s all engage in self-loathing too while we’re at it. VERY productive.
However, while I think that while gun control might be a great idea, I also think that it might be a sort of band-aid solution. I’ll quote “The Anarchist” Monson, a UFC guy (yeah I know, stone me)…
“We should put in place a system where greed is not rewarded, where no one starves or dies in wars for oil, where everyone has opportunity, access to free medicine, free schooling. Then you won’t have violence.”
So yeah, we can get make guns illegal, but if we don’t invest in our own people in a bunch of ways at the same time we’ll just figure out other ways to injure one another.
Another thing that concerns me is that if we make guns illegal, we may just create another illegal market, just like with drugs and prostitution. And then we’ll just have more problems.
Btw, I’m a life-long urbanite and haven’t ever been affected firsthand by violent crime. But I can see how someone who has might feel differently about gun control.
Eh, I’ll leave yas with a lyric, again I’m still on the fence…
“Nailed To The Gun” by Fight
Sig sauer, victim of a systems non-control
Devour, striking terror into every soul
Communication breakdown onto self destruction
Schizophrenic people breeding hate
Pessimistic thinking from a failed connection
Survival comes when we annihilate
Nailed to the gun
Nailed to the gun
Nailed to the gun
Nailed to the gun
Paranoia, termination sickness zeros good
Blind power, executing humans in cold blood
Degenerating children with an opiate bullet
Poison flows from words out on the street
Trapped inside the home that has become the prison
Dissin’ everybody that we meet
Nailed to the gun
Nailed to the gun
Nailed to the gun
Nailed to the gun
Locked and loaded, governmental loss to anarchy
Weapon goaded, magnum is gagging liberty
Cultural collision in an endless frenzy
Numbing minds with threats of violence
Hopeless to the dream of any decent future
Running on sheer fear and ignorance
Nailed to the gun
Nailed to the gun
Nailed to the gun
Nailed to the gun
Un-Common Dreams. What form of government does Switzerland have;___ is there a major drug problem in Switzerland and how good or bad are their educational programs;___ do they have a large and diverse racial mix with many different armed street gangs in every metro area and prison;___ how good or bad are the job opportunities;___ do they have problems with illegals pouring across their borders;___ do they have a fair justice syetem;___are the women beautiful like every place else?
have to agree with canuckchuck..
“Unfortunately, while the USA has the most number of guns per person, they also have the least number of brains per person. This is what makes them truly dangerous”
couldn’t have said it better myself..chuck..
and as the Gun lobby says..it’s the people not the guns..guns are for law bid’n citizens like Dick cheney, who shot his friends face off. after a cold one..or two..
Ah the second ammendment..the days of the ball and muskett..try a gunfight at the ok coral with a nice ak 47..use butter instead..
ekay1946,
Yes, times have changed. Unfortunately, Americans haven’t.
I am a progressive who supports gun ownership although my husband and I do not own guns. However, I do think we need tougher background checks and restrictions on who can own guns.
The reason this was enshrined in our Bill of Rights was because the colonists owned guns which they used to rise up against British tyranny. Should we have martial law here in the States because Bush or some of the neocon whackjobs decide to declare it I plan on calling up Kem or anyone else with a firearm to protect me from their tyranny. I think the founding fathers had a good point in this one as they do with the rest of the Bill of Rights. I believe they were thinking ahead.
dcbeltway,
I’m a “progressive” too (as if that means anything), and as I posted above, I do own guns.
Let me say this - don’t bother calling up Kem, he’ll be one of the first to go. His gun(s) will do nothing against military weapons.
Unfortunately, we, the citizens, have given up many of our rights over the years for comfort and entertainment. Neocons have just iced the cake.
Our founding fathers were thinking ahead. Unfortunately, we are not!
EKAY 1946: From what we have all seen so many times on the news for many years, I do believe when it comes to gun control, Americans display a great deal more common sense and BRAINS, than those wild eyed, rapid firing up in the air idiots, in the mid-east, much of Africa and areas of Indonesia. So when it comes to lack of brains, please speak for yourself. __You too Canuckie.
Kristina40. Good for you! Most have not had the training you have, but I agree with those who write, if one purchses a handgun, they should have to take an extensive training course on how to handle it. And another wrote, if you can’t hit a target with one or two shots, you shoudn’t be using a handgun. That’s right.
The best weapon for home defense is a short barrel 12 gage pump with an eight round loading tube, a sling and 0 or 00 buck for ammo. Be careful though, don’t accidently blow your neighbors house walls down.
“Why are Gun Laws so lax and Car laws so stringent?”
Because you own the right to possess a gun. You do not own the right to drive.
“Classes should be manditory for licence….These should be fairly extencive with a big section dedicated to keeping guns away from children.”
I’m less than certain that making classes a condition of a right is a good idea. I’m even less certain that ‘keeping guns away from children’ is a good idea, depending on what you mean by that. Teaching children about firearms and how to handle them, and allowing them to shoot them in safe conditions, goes a long way towards removing the mystique of firearms and teaching safe handling. Back in the day in my middle school, we took firearms education classes in public school and there was also a target shooting team.
“I’ve been raped twice (prior to my purchasing a gun) and I don’t intend to have it happen again.”
Good for you. You don’t owe any predator a fair fight, no one does.
You know for a fact that criminals are there when the police cannot be, and this is true for all but a tiny fraction of all crime.
For your defense, the only one you can rely on is you. Others would leave you as a sacrifice to their beliefs while claiming observing the reality of many violent crimes is ‘paranoia’. It’s not paranoia to own a fire extinquisher though most will never use it, nor is it same to own a firearm.
Sh@@, The Goat has agreed with me again, sort of.
“I’m under no illusion that they will help me against any army. Armies have guns that can shoot projectiles through houses and metal, mine can’t. Those who are reassured by their guns are living a fool’s dream. They are toys compared to military weapons.”
Unless I am mistaking you for someone else, haven’t you commented on Iraq that we cannot win because of those fighting us there are so numerous? They too fight an army with the weapons you describe, and in that case you argued it was a lost cause because of their numbers and tactics…with vastly inferior weapons.
Yet here, you say it wouldn’t make any difference. What the heck?
Jeez Kem, you’re sliding into libertarian land. Soon, you might even respect other people enough to quit supporting substituting your judgements for theirs by law. I know, that’s a long shot, but lookit chew, agreeing a couple times now.
#
KEM PATRICK said:
“That’s right Ezeflyer, the problem there is, if we had to register and license our weapons and our government evolved from a Democracy to facism, from there to a total dictatorship, they’d know where every gun was located. I sure don’t agree with the NRA on every issue, but I do agree with some.”
If you agree that a car is as deadly as a gun, then maybe you should lobby for eliminating their licensing requirements too. They know where every car is located also. BTW, ours is a kindler, gentler fascism.
“Unfortunately, while the USA has the most number of guns per person, they also have the least number of brains per person. This is what makes them truly dangerous.”
That in itself is a brainless, not to mention smug and unfair remark.
Guns are disgusting! They should all be recycled into something that will actually help the world! But the comments to this article show just how much stupid american scum comes to this website.
http://www.dreamingearth.net
Sure, guns are so disgusting you refuse to back laws supported by guns.
Don’t jerk us around, you just want to be in control of the guns you don’t find disgusting, for your own reasons.
“Stupid American scum.”
How lovely.
I go on a right-wing site, and feel like everyone wants to shoot me in the face for my views. I come on here and feel the same way simply for being American. I don’t know whether to laugh or kick something.
Btw, I don’t know if its as much a love-affair with guns as it is that people are made to feel that they need them as protection against rape, assault, robbery, and murder. Not that this sort of hysteria is a good thing, but I think we need to look at the larger picture.
He spelled american wrong, IWARRIOR, he must be stupid. Should have been American. (Laugh)
Dcbeltway and punkassbeeotch get it right with VERY different rhetorical styles. It’s not about hunting or house protection those are red herrings, it’s about the state not having a monopoly on lethal force. As an anarchist sympathizer living in an increasing authoritarian (U.S. citizen here) society the idea of mandatory disarmament now seems to me to be utterly foolish.
If the goons round up my friends because they are dissidents, gay, feminists (Handmaiden’s Tale anyone?), environmental activists or Muslim, what’s going to help more singing Kumbaya or a well sighted in .308 with a laser scope and some idea of how to use camouflage and sniper tactics effectively? I’m putting my money on the .308 thanks. And those who say we can’t win with small arms are foolish, the Zapitistas and Iraqi resistance know better. Some of you may plan to lay down and die if the fascists declare martial law, I’m not. I am glad I learned how to shoot a gun growing up in Norther Michigan, and how to sneak around in the woods and leave no trace as an Earth First! activist. Remember not all 2nd amendment advocates are right wingers.
While I am not armed now, to close off the option of being armed during the most corrupt corporate controlled imperial presidency the U.S. has ever seen seems the height of foolishness to me.
I was never shot in the face by a car, I was by a gun. A bathtub is dangerous too, so are skate boards, so are sexy women, should they all be licensed? Guns and cars are like apples and oranges Ezeflyer. I do understand the points you make, just have strong reservations. The crooks and street gang fellas will never register their guns if any laws were ever passed to do so.
Goat, I don’t label myself anything. I agree with some of the Repugs sometimes, and the Demos sometimes, I’m registered to vote as a Independent. If I am ever tagged as a liberal because I respect the Earth, care very much about the enviroment, love people and wish we would all get along, then I’ll wear the liberal tag with pride. I wish I could be proud to be an American, especially so as a disabled vet, but I cannot do so now. If people wish to own a legal gun and never abuse the privelage, learn how to use it safely and teach their children the same. ___ that’s fine with me.
Maybe if we all learned martial arts? It is possible to learn how to defend yourself against an armed assailant when you are unarmed.
I learned how to box from my father, not so I could be a tough guy, but to protect myself. There are times I feel a need to prepare to defend myself even if nothing happens.
A lot of people imo think that if they let their guard down, that’s when they’ll be attacked be it by some thug with a heroin jones to feed or Blackwater uniform as some theorize could happen.
But again, root problems need to be addressed. Good, take all the guns and melt them down to make a statue. I honestly would not have a problem with that. But if we don’t end the war on drugs, young guys in the inner cities are going to keep killing each other. If we don’t provide universal free health care while we’re at it, you’ll still see people getting robbed for Vicodan or Prozac. If we don’t provide free univeral education, we’re going to continue to see so many young people feel that crime is their only route towards self-sufficiency. If we start taking care of our own people, we’ll imo see the anger, resentment, and desperation end, and with that the violence.
Getting rid of guns might make it easier to combat and prevent violent crime, but it will still be a big part of our society if we don’t institute socialism in the right places alongside that. And will we really get rid of the guns? We could stop them from getting into the country and shut down the manufacturers. But again, an illegal market could just crop up. People make heroin right under our noses. What’s to stop people from making guns despite a total ban?
I don’t love guns. I’m afraid to hold one. I don’t love drugs either. I avoid people who use them. But part of me thinks that it might be better to try and cure violence instead of merely treating the symptoms and manifestations. I have a sinking feeling that if guns are banned, people will use alternatives or they’ll still use guns they get illegally, and then people will be killing each other over the illegal guns. You’ll have illegal gunmakers and gundealers trying to take each other out.
Am I just paranoid?
Yes, people like kem patrick are ignorant scum, people who “agree with republicans,” have no international scope, and are offended when the holy american empire is not capitalized in name. The same goes for the people here who support guns. There is a difference between people who live in america and identify as internationalists, who don’t buy into right wing politics, who have some scope about their principals, and those who are simply nationalist, regionalist, uneducated reactionaries. I am a vegan social democrat who practices nonviolence, doesn’t believe in the military, and truly believes in zero guns, not “my guns” (which don’t exist.)
IWARRIOR, tell ya what, for just a few moments, close your eyes and pretend that you own a service station. You are alone after eleven at night, it’s cold and raining and you finish your daily books and lock the safe, and as you leave the office a man runs out of the darkness at you pointing a hand gun. You are aware, that another such incident occurred last week and another dealer was killed as he left his staion.
Okay, now close your eyes and picture it, it’s not a movie,____ it’s for real.
You don’t believe in guns but your an expert at karate. So you scream out “Yaaaaaaa” and leap up and kick the murderer in the head. Yeah, sure____ that would work.
Well, silly me, I shot the guy in the face and then chased down his two buddies and held them until the police arrived. Two of them later admitted to killing the other dealer. The guy who was seriously wounded was the shooter. They were all only young guys who needed money for crack. Wish I’d not needed a gun though____ but I did. The other attempted robbery a year later was similar.
You try the kickin and I’ll calmly fire off two rounds thank you, it’s more effective in real life.
lo Q. Lellity. You call me an ignorant scum because I wrote I sometimes agree with some Republicans. You fu@@cking piece of s##t, you can go straight to h##l. I guarantee you, would not tell me that to my face.
well said mjolnir! for those who don’t like guns…don’t buy one. i’m glad to see that commondreams posters don’t just consist of mindless anti-gun people spewing the same old arguments against gun ownership. i know i had problems in chicago with crime. it’s easy for armchair pundits to sit and whine about guns and how scary they are and how much they hate them and how noone but the police should have them. ever had 5 gang members walk up to you and want to blow you away? no? have that happen and then come back with your “opinons”. i can sympathize with Kem Patrick. The karate/non armed option is just plain STUPID and realistic.
maybe it works in some BS hollywood movie. in real life, it gets you KILLED.
do people who hate guns even care about victims who could have been saved had they been armed?
I won’t apologize for sounding off in anger. This entire strng has been very civil until now. If any disagree with me, they may chide and even be sarcastic or rude to a point. But don’t call me names or tell me I’m scum for expressing my opinions in an honest manner. Ignorant is fine, I’m often ignorant on a subject. I try not to display it though. I can disagree with the Goat and he with me, we often do, but I’d mever call him scum or other such, as long as he is halfway polite to me, and he is. I only used Goat’s name as an example of fair debating. No offense intended there Goat.
Ok,
I never said that I myself was Shang Chi or anything like that. I box and know some self-defense tactics. I’ve watched some of Paul Vunak’s Street Safe videos, and he clearly demonstrates how one can disarm an assailant with a gun. It’s not just movie/tv/comic book BS.
Guys, my thing about martial arts was merely a suggestion. Again I’m not totally sure whether I’m pro-gun or anti-gun. Godlessrant, I too can sympathize with KEM PATRICK. I’m not bashing him. He’s a perfect example of what violent crime can do to people. Based on his experience, I can see why he stakes thr stance that he does. There was a guy on another thread (can’t remember his username) about gun control that claimed he saw a gang of teens harassing an old woman at a subway station. He said he wished he had a gun to scare them all off. He also IIRC said that he himself had been mugged.
Hey, if I had a gun, and someone was pointing a gun at me, you’re damn right I’d pull the trigger.
And don’t for a minute suggest that I am not sympathetic towards victims of violent crime. I think I have stated before that I have a great deal of animosity towards violent criminals. I myself have admitted that I have a violent streak, that I at time want to jakk some people up. I’m conflicted by it all the time.
Read my posts guys. I just got done saying that I’m not sure banning guns outright will fully solve the problem of violence in this country.
But at the same time, I can also see what the anti-gun people are getting at. I wish all the guns would disappear. I wish all the cocaine would get thrown into the sun also. I wish people didn’t feel the need to see hookers. Banning guns might help curb violent crime but it could also create more crime.
That’s why I think that we should (and I know, broken record time) try to kill the virus with socialist programs. We might not need to ban guns if we solve the problems that lead people towards violence.
If a gun were pointed at me, and I was unarmed, I really don’t know what I would do to be totally honest with you. If the guy wanted my wallet, I’d likely throw it somewhere and run. I mean, it’s not real streetwise to fight someone who is armed when you are not. Cops will tell you to just give the person what they want. The people you see on those police video shows fighting back over 50 dollars are rather foolish.
Plus I’m not one to frequent places where there is gang activity. Not that people deserve to be accosted by a bunch of gangbangers, but part of being streetwise means staying out of areas where you might be a target. But it also could be said that you’re not really safe anywhere.
Where did 5 gang bangers accost you godlessrant? I’m just curious. Was this in your own neighborhood or did you just find yourself in a bad part of town? And before people bash me for saying that, there are parts of every city where you need to mind your P’s and Q’s more than you would in others. It’s a sad reality. Yes, the media blows it out of proportion most of the time, and people can be needlessly paranoid about it all, and yes there are racial undertones to it at times, but still. If a place is a high crime area, I’m gonna stay out of there, and if I find myself there, I’m gonna watch myself.
Ok KEM I just read your other post. I got mad at the “scum” remark too. I for one don’t think you or godless rant are scum.
“Yes, people like kem patrick are ignorant scum, people who “agree with republicans,” have no international scope, and are offended when the holy american empire is not capitalized in name.”
I think that’s a gross generalization. I don’t completely toe the line either on all things liberal. Does that make me “scum”?
I don’t totally agree with KEM either. I can see how someone would be put off by the remark “than those wild eyed, rapid firing up in the air idiots, in the mid-east, much of Africa and areas of Indonesia.”
But I think KEM has been shaped by his experiences. I can see how someone affected directly by violent crime would want to carry a gun.
“The same goes for the people here who support guns. There is a difference between people who live in america and identify as internationalists, who don’t buy into right wing politics, who have some scope about their principals, and those who are simply nationalist, regionalist, uneducated reactionaries. I am a vegan social democrat who practices nonviolence, doesn’t believe in the military, and truly believes in zero guns, not “my guns” (which don’t exist.)”
Hey man, good for you. There’s nothing wrong with that. But I think calling people like KEM “scum” is unfair too.
thanks iwarrior, calling people “Scum” without even knowing a person? gimme a break. i don’t mind if people don’t want to own a gun, and that’s fine to me, but to call gun owners “scum” or redneck or fascist is disgusting. I’d really wonder how people would react if they had a dangerous situation to face without being armed and see if they still felt the same way afterwards. it’s easy to type here from the comfort of a keyboard, another to face streets in our major cities.
We gun owners are not some knuckledragging redneck goons drooling over 200 guns every night. I happen to take it very seriously.
No problem godlessrant. As liberal as I am, I think the Left puts off too many people. The Right demonizes certain people for sure. That’s why I get so mad when people on The Left do it. We can’t afford to alienate people. I expect better from people on our side. We need to look at where people are coming from. We’re all ordinary people here, and the same elites are all spitting on us from above.
I didn’t have any problems with your opinions either Iwarrior. In fact, I beleive you are correct in all you just wrote. If someone ever does point a gun at me and I have one, I’m going to attempt to fire first. First is best in a gun fight. If I didn’t have one, I’d run too. The problem there is, I’m 71 years old now. Sometimes you feel danger, the skin on your neck prickels up. When that happens,___ be very wary. Cops and those who work in dangeous conditions, like pilots, firemen, hookers, they learn to use their sixth senses.
“Where did 5 gang bangers accost you godlessrant? I’m just curious. Was this in your own neighborhood or did you just find yourself in a bad part of town?”
It was on the job believe it or not, in uptown chicago around montrose and broadway in the parking lot of the college there. They pulled out their guns. Not an experience i’d like to repeat - ever. Criminals like that would just laugh at the thought of unarmed people.
For those who do not believe in guns, i hope you are never harmed or accosted, really. But the scathing insults aimed at gun owners won’t bring you any respect either. Martial arts is fine, and i have trained in Jeet Kun Do, but it doesn’t stop all situations. There’s many reasons the 2nd amendment exists.
Wouild it be great if all guns went away? everywhere? it would be great if all weapons went away and we had peace. but this is not reality. until mankind can put away it’s hate, there will always be weapons. A stabbing is no more moral than a shooting.
hi iwarrior yes the Left puts off many people - me being one of them.
i happen to agree with many progressive issues, yet i’m constantly turned off by the 2nd amendment issue. Suddenly firearm owners are all fascist, crazed, redneck thugs. shame on you who label us as such! Are you any better than the right wingers? In your zeal for your progressive issues you do alienate those who might have agreed with your stances. Sometimes it seems that the far left and the far right are just about in common with their tactics and their thinking. I can’t call myself liberal because of this.
The day when law and order situation breaks down and that day may never come the only thing that will save you and your family will be your own arsenal.
let’s hope that day never comes but if it does that’s absolutely true! as much as pacifism is a great ideal, not all, hell not much of mankind ascribes to it yet!
I’m sitting on the fence with iWarrior on this. One thing I know is that you’re not going to defend yourself with a Remington against a steel and depleted uranium armored mercenary Blackwater carrier with mini-guns attached. People who picture themselves Bruce Willis-like in post apocalyptic America are really, really fooling themselves.
Corporations rule the world and gun geeks rule the USA.
If the bowling alley is closed and NASCAR ain’t racin’ go out and buy another gun.
Guns again. You know if we spent as much time trying to treat all our fellow Americans as we wish to be treated then maybe this country wpold be the lowest proporsion gun owning society in this world.
It is plain that those gun owners that are writing on here do not even want to try for peace and harmony amoung all Americans,
This business of not getting caught without a gun in traffic jams in cities. Methinks we are talking here of road rage? Road Rage happens to many many people that do not have criminal records.
And also we seemed to be talking about differants in skin and cultures. Just putting a negative twist on those two proved the originator thinks he is bettter then them.
Do I or have I ever owned a firearm?
Nope , I have been a law bidding citizen all but for one half hour of my 60 years.
That one half hour caused me to become punished for life. No I never spent a single minute in prison. I stood up and pleaded guilty for my infraction.
Luckily I can at least vote in my state.but I cannot serve on a jury I cannot hold certain jobs or even be an owner of a barroom.
When did that half hour happen? 42 years ago.
So my friend that wants to tack more time onto those who use a firearm. i didn’t use any type of weapon or threaten anyone and I am serving life in this country with no chance of being anything more then a seco