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TechnoratiNurses to Sue Over H1N1 Shots
They object to state mandating health workers be vaccinated
ALBANY -- Lorna Patterson is willing to take on New York's top health official for her right to be flu vaccine-free.
![[Vials of Influenza A(H1N1) monovalent vaccine are pictured on the labelling collection table at Sanofi Pasteur plant in Swiftwater, Pennsylvania, in this recent photograph released to Reuters on September 29, 2009. A group of nurses in Albany plan to file a lawsuit against state Health Commissioner Dr. Richard Daines to prevent the mandatory vaccination of New York's health care workers with the H1N1 flu virus. (REUTERS/Sanofi-Aventis/Handout)]](http://www.commondreams.org/files/article_images/vaccine.jpg "vaccine.jpg")
The registered nurse in Albany Medical Center's emergency room is among a group of nurses who plan to file a lawsuit against state Health Commissioner Dr. Richard Daines to prevent the mandatory vaccination of New York's health care workers with the H1N1 flu virus.
"It takes away our freedom of choice," Patterson told reporters during a news conference Monday. "Our health is being affected."
The deadline for the state's health care workers to receive the swine flu vaccination is at the end of next month, though some employers have moved that up to the end of this month.
The four nurses will file a lawsuit against the state this week to prevent the forced vaccination, said their attorney, Terence L. Kindlon.
"This is a significant civil rights issue," Kindlon said. "We think people are being forced to do something by the government."
If Patterson and Kathryn Dupuis do not receive their shots within the next two weeks, they will likely lose their jobs in the emergency room at Albany Medical Center. Patterson said the vaccination was rushed into production in a matter of months and that its effect has not yet been properly studied.
Patterson said the vaccination could be dangerous for people, including pregnant women, and that more time is needed to understand its effectiveness. She said she is not willing to risk her health and does not think it is fair that she should lose her job.
Outside of New York City, 91,000 FluMist doses -- the inhalant form of the vaccine -- were delivered by the end of last week. Health care workers are at the front of the line for those to receive the first round.
A similar suit filed last week in New York City names Commissioner Daines and Jeffrey Kraut, chairman of the state Hospital Planning and Review Council, and contends it is beyond the state's authority to mandate getting the vaccines. Kindlon said the New York Civil Liberties Union and other groups may file similar legal action in the coming weeks.
Daines has said that vulnerable people and those who haven't been immunized come to hospitals and that they need to be protected from the possibility that medical workers carry the virus. The commissioner has said health workers in hospitals, clinics and other settings must be vaccinated by Nov. 30 or risk losing their jobs.
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control estimates it will have provided states with 186 million doses of the H1N1 vaccine by January. New York officials expect the state to receive 6.7 million doses for upstate and 5 million doses for the city.
New York is the first state to mandate flu vaccinations for health care workers. The nurses preparing to file the lawsuit have already collected more than 400 signatures of health care workers against the forced vaccinations and are helping plan at rally scheduled for this Wednesday at the Capitol.
85 Comments so far
Show Alltexas agie, take your shovel and dig a bit deeper. you've obviously only scratched the surface re: rumsfeld.
dope.
"It takes away our freedom of choice," Patterson said.
Right on. To hell with your patients that you will infect when you catch it from another patient. You have the right to decide whether or not you will be protected against flu.
Nurses typically don't go to work sick. A nurse could still "catch it from another patient" or from someone outside the hospital and not get sick due to the vaccine and yet still "infect the other patients" by being a carrier. Nurses getting vaccinated won't keep you any safer. If nurses are mandated to get this and in a year or two when the unknown side effects start coming, who the hell is going to take care of you then?
RIGHT ON FRIEND! You called it. Thanks for hanging tough.
if, as egg2001 suggests, the vaccine manufacturers are free from legal action, this becomes even more sinister than doing a bit of research - yes, i'll suggest it again - on a certain former secretary of defense's connection to a certain flu vaccine manufacturer, along with the millions of dollars of stock investment in said company.
instead of spouting and spewing, zmann, go get your flu shot. if you've not already done so, they've made it rather convenient to do so: there are flu shot drive thru's for the lazy americans who can't get out of their car.
take a survey of health-care providers and ask one question: are the swine flu symptoms as serious as what is being touted by corporate funded msm? yes or no, please. it's an amazing marketing scheme, fear-driven, to increase corporate profit.
until america becomes united (never), we will always allow the corporation to succeed. in the guise of two parties we stay divided, living in a world of both free thinkers and the uninformed (ignorant).
Dope, "on a certain former secretary of defense's connection to a certain flu vaccine manufacturer, along with the millions of dollars of stock investment in said company."
If you are referring to Rumsfeld, he was never associated with a vaccine company. The company he is associated with makes an antiviral which is not at all the same as a vaccine. The rest of your screed also shows that you have no idea of what you are talking about.
"instead of spouting and spewing, zmann, go get your flu shot. if you've not already done so, they've made it rather convenient to do so: there are flu shot drive thru's for the lazy americans who can't get out of their car."
Ok, since you're being rude, jackass, I would get the vaccine, but I'm so broke I don't have the $30 to go get it. I had a horrible experience with flu 3 years ago, I was so sick I couldn't sleep for 5 days straight because I was so congested I couldn't breathe easily enough to sleep.
And FYI, I don't have a car, don't even have a driver's license, and I plan to never, ever get one. I enjoy using public transit and walking.
To egg2001---
Now that you mention it, I recall driving somewhere in some rural area a few weeks ago and hearing on my car radio that producers of the flu vaccine(s) were going to be held free from any liability by government sanction. If you die, your Estate cannot sue. Or if it does attempt to sue, the conclusion is foregone. You lose.
This vaccination issue takes on far larger proportions, don't you know. Like Sen. Feinstein exonerating the telecoms retroactively for their Fascism.
The suggestion that The State could create a "disease" and then impose a "cure" is no longer Science Fiction. Today it is weapons-grade Ft. Detrick Anthrax shutting down the Congress right after 9/11/01. Don't blame dem Arabs for that one. Whatever you may think of the Twin Towers implosion, the anthrax thing was in inside job, big time.
At this level, any attempt to separate right-wing and left-wing proletarian concerns about Public Health is merely
lies and propaganda. White people have been using germ warfare at least since they came up the Missouri River and gave away small-pox infected blankets to the Mandans in the early 19th century. Worse, go back another couple of centuries and the unclean of Europe wiped out half of humanity in the New World merely by showing up.
Ain't America (which ain't America) a great country, or what.
We are the disease. I'm beginning to think that developing Alzheimer's might be a blessing given our present condition!
-30-
Is Baxter Labs doing something about world overcrowding?
German Soldiers to Receive Different Swine Flu Vaccine Than German People
According to a newspaper article, the German military has ordered it's own special vaccine for it's 250000 soldiers. Different from the serum which the civilian population will be vaccinated with, the more compatible vaccine for the soldiers will not contain any contended additives nor will it contain any mercury preservatives, has been reported by the Bielefelder "Westfalen-Blatt" under reference to military sources. Its about the Serum Celvapan manufactured by Baxter.source
For anecdotal evidence on flu prevention see:
www.vitamindcouncil.org "Noteworthy News", Sept 2009 special report. The bio of the physician who runs the website will reveal a scientist as well as a social activist.
it seems to be a clear public health issue. I think it's perfectly reasonable to insist they get vaccinated.
You have swallowed the corporate line completely. The whole pandemic - legally, financially, and militarily - was set up under Bush. You should no more trust this pandemic than you do WMD claims. They are looking for control here via an "emergency" they are doing all they can to create.
The vaccines are untested. A lawsuit was filed to halt distribution because the FDA failed to test all four vaccines, breaking federal law.
http://www.naturalnews.com/027205_vaccines_swine_flu_the_FDA.html
MEANWHILE
http://www.bmj.com/content/vol339/issue7723/press_release.dtl
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/doi/10.1136/bmj.b3675
"Hygiene and physical measures, such as handwashing, wearing masks and isolating potentially infected patients, are highly effective in preventing the spread of viral infections (including influenza) and should be given higher priority in national pandemic preparation plans, argue researchers in a study published on bmj.com today.
In 2007, Professor Tom Jefferson and colleagues showed that physical interventions, such as handwashing and wearing masks, gloves and gowns are <<>>in preventing the spread of respiratory viruses. However, the current mainstay of pandemic interventions still seems to rest on vaccines and antiviral drugs <<>> supporting their [vaccines] widespread use, especially against a seemingly mild threat like the new H1N1 (swine flu) virus."
H1N1 vaccines have not been proved safe or tested for efficacy and the CDC and FDA are setting up to track their "adverse events." If it is anything like 1976 when corporations still had liability and were not rushed so there was more reason for those vaccines to be safer, many people will die.
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/recommendations.htm
No adverse events accompany hand washing and masks and other preventive measures.
And independent scientists say the vaccines are dangerous:
Shiv Chopra , Canadian Food and Drug Safety official. A video on the foreign protein in vaccines that the body can't handle and self-attacks to try to get rid of. The first part is in French but it switches very quickly to English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J0vhNwBgjE&feature=PlayList&p=CF3B916768B8D783&index=11
"The vaccines far more deadly than the swine flu; mass vaccinations a recipe for disaster."
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/fastTrackSwineFluVaccineUnderFire.php
"The 2009 pandemic strain is milder than the seasonal flu; the most authoritative evidence on flu vaccines is that they are ineffective, and could have a range of adverse side-effects arising from production contaminants and adjuvants; the live attenuated vaccine intended as a nasal spray for children is genetically unstable and risk generating a more dangerous pandemic virus if mass vaccinations are to proceed"
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/swineFluVaccination.php
"New vaccine formulation contains thimerosal and beta-propiolactone a potent cancer causing chemical."
Prof. Joe Cummins
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/CSLPandemicSwineFluVaccine.php
According to [Professor R.F. Garry's] findings, ... the Pandremix vaccine contains ... one million times more squalene per dose than in (4). ... This appears murderous to me.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14851
Wodarg says the swine flu vaccine contains animal cancer cells ... He also told the German press that the widespread fear of
the pandemic was an “orchestration,” stating, “It is great business for the pharmaceutical industry. Swine flu is not very different from normal flu. On the contrary, if you look at the number of cases it is nothing compared to a normal flu outbreak.”
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/09/08/Another-Shocking-
Warning-About-Swine-Flu-Vaccine.aspx
Side effects of the vaccine can be far worse than the actual swine flu virus, which typically causes only mild symptoms,
requiring just a few days in bed.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/09/08/Another-Shocking-
Warning-About-Swine-Flu-Vaccine.aspx
Dr. Fauci admits that they have no idea what will happen when they mix the three viruses from the vaccines together or when they are given sequentially. When he was asked if the results of the studies would be reviewed by the health authorities, he answered, “yes, except for those done by the Novartis company.” ... this vaccine has been fast-tracked, meaning that many of the usual safety precautions ... will be overlooked by the regulatory agencies.
http://weeksmd.com/?p=1966
Contamination of the vaccines - viral contamination in as many as 56% of the samples.
whole organisms, nucleic-acid fragments, pathogenic viruses to mycoplasma, in a large percentage of vaccines.
Studies have shown that the offspring of some 58,000 women vaccinated with the contaminated vaccines had a 13-fold higher incidence of brain tumor development than those not exposed to the vaccine.
Until 1992, the poliovirus vaccine was also contaminated with simian cytomegalovirus. A recent study found that over 70% of cases of stroke are related to this virus.
http://www.thenhf.com/vaccinations_125.htm
300% increased risk of developing multiple sclerosis in 3 years of the hepatitis vaccinations.
http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/abstract/63/5/838
if an individual has had 5 consecutive flu shots, his/her chance of developing Alzheimer's Disease is 10 times greater than if they had one, two or no shots.
http://www.nitrf.org/fudenberg.html
A poll of 60 virologists revealed the following:
"Will the virulent version of the virus appear?
Extremely likely—————–none
Likely—————————-5
A 50/50 chance—————– 14
Possible————————– 38
Not at all————————–3
What the virologists are doing personally
Stock Tamiflu or Relinza——–14
Stock above plus antibiotics—- 6
Stock food, water and power source—-5
Get pneumococcal vaccine——3
Nothing—— 30
Hand washing, mask, etc—— 3
"Notice there was no mention of taking the swine flu vaccine."
The British science magazine, The New Scientist
http://weeksmd.com/?p=1966
The pandemic itself has been questioned, the data has been, and the alarmist, over-restrictive and harmful reaction have been.
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/pandemic-0411.html
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/339/sep03_2/b3471
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090904071704.htm
So far swine flu has killed 495 people world wide while the regular flu kills about 500,000 a year.
At this point I don't think that the science is good enough and am going to wait to see what develops.
I guess that I just don't trust my government to tell me the truth.
Imagine that.
Talk about conspiracy theorists, the tea baggers have nothing on this guy! I never know whether to laugh or cry when you have someone deliberately distorting and cherry picking facts and doing such a poor job of it. It is obvious that his first bits about hand washing and masks are true to the extent that they go, but vaccinations are also part of the game. Sneezing or coughing, even with a mask, expels virus particles into the environment. Vaccination reduces that tremendously.
The vaccines are NOT untested. They just haven't been tested to the same extent that older vaccines, made the exact same way, have been.
CSLPandemicSwineFluVaccine is not exactly a reputable source anymore than RedStateNation.com is.
Oh! and you believed the WMD story too, lol.
Exactly.
And how could progressives possibly support having people be injected against their will? Great democratic response.
They create an emergency, whether WMDs or a flu, and the government moves to get rid of rights through that means - and taking billions in the process. No one should have fallen for "terrorism" as an excuse for the Patriot Act, and the left needs to not fall for "disease" to accept martial law edicts which are worked into state and federal laws around the country right now and must be nullified. The NY move to make vaccines mandatory arises out of such laws.
Oy. I'll repeat a question I asked once before when people were fear mongering about the government: If you're so convinced the government will harm you (or your children) with this, why in the hell would you support single-payer health care, and trust the government to cover all of your health care costs? And I know nearly all of us on here support that.
Zmann you share a common misconception about a single payer system. This does NOT necessarily mean government- run health care, but rather government-funded. There's a big difference. In Canada, as you might know, many doctors choose to be free agents with independent practices. Canadians actually have MORE choice about their health care than Americans do, and Canadian doctors have much more choice in treating patients than American doctors do. Docs there are free to treat a patient according to what they feel the patient really needs. A Canadian goes to the doctor of his or her choice, swipes his or her health care card through the machine, and voila! The government health fund is billed. There is no reason why American single payer can't operate on a similar model.
Here's a startling fact-- the US government treasury now contributes the $3,076 towards the health care costs of every American citizen. In addition to that, the insurance companies extract almost $4,000 MORE per person from employers and individuals, for a total of $6,719 per person. The Canadian treasury kicks in $2759 per citizen, and individuals contribute on average around $1,100 more per year to pay for everything not covered, for a total health care cost of $3,917 per person. Everyone in Canada is covered for all essential medical services. No one loses their home or goes bankrupt because of medical bills.
In other words, it's just a lie to say that this country can't afford universal care. The US government already pays for it! We just don't get it. There's a hole in the American health care bucket, and the money falls right through that hole into a gated community where stockholders and CEOs of health companies live in luxury while providing no health care services at all.
You can find an excellent article and jaw-droppingly clear chart about medical costs in the US and 4 other developed countries at
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/74912.html
You should check out the Physicians for a National Health Program website, which is loaded with information
www.pnhp.org/
Single payer legislation will be voted on by congress for the first time ever this week. I have to leave the house for an appointment, but I will post about the pending legislation when I can get back to the computer....
I'm sorry I gave you that impression and you felt you had to write such a long post correcting me, but I know how single-payer works. I was just making the point that if you think the govt will intentionally harm you via vaccination, what's to prevent it from not fully funding health care if we get a single-payer system, leading to possibly worse problems than we have now?
If people honestly believe the CDC and HHS will deliberately harm them, why trust the government to have anything to do with health care?
Even in countries that have a single-payer system, there is always and must always be a political struggle to keep the system properly and fully funded. That is the nature of democracy. Assuming that we haven't simply entered an era where voting systems are so computer rigged that a vote in actuality is meaningless, the fact that politicians are dependent on voters, and voters are fiercely protective of their health care systems, has kept single payer systems fulfilling their missions-- (everywhere but here)-- to provide equal coverage for all medical necessities for all citizens.
Should distrust all government control. That should be separate from whether there is a system that uses tax dollars to free us form corporate control over health care. But the current bill is dangerously full of controls over people's lives AND is totally corporate, too. Worst of everything. The right is right to fight the controls. The left is correct to want people covered. But no one should be forced or penalized for not participating. The system should just be available if they wish. And doctors should not be controlled either.
Don't get me wrong man, I hate the current health insurance "reform" bills currently in Congress. Insurance should not be used to pay for health care, period. Prof. L. Randall Wray has some very wonky, but excellent, explanations of this.
http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com
/2009/10/health-insurance-diversions-part-2-we.html
http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com
/2009/10/healthcare-diversions-part-3.html
zmann, the point is, we can't get single payer or even get anyone in government - including our President! to even mention it because the corporations don't want it. We needed a stimulus bill that actually bailed out the states. We didn't get it. We spent all our money bailing out banks. We needed a mortgage relief bill that actually helped homeowners. We didn't get it. We got a bill that instead gave money to the banks to set up workout plans. They didn't carry them out because they could make more money on foreclosures. It's not that the government can't do it right. Take Medicare. But they won't. Instead we get Medicare Advantage sucking up money that would be better spent by Medicare.
Do you think if we didn't already have Medicare or Social Security we could get it today?? This is what our country has become. Eisenhower warned about the military industrial complex. 50 years later our problems have gone way beyond that. Congress is inhabited by 535 elected officials and over 12,500 lobbyists bearing gifts. And they switch places so often (the revolving door) you can't tell who's buying and who's selling (perfect example: Billy Tauzin). We're screwed.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
I would say the stimulus bill did help out the states quite a bit, at least as far as education is concerned. From what I've read on it, the stimulus money prevented many teacher firings and school closings. Other parts of the stimulus also included what the director of the Center for Community Change called "the biggest welfare spending in a generation", all the billions spent on food stamps, unemployment insurance extensions, etc. It had far too many tax cuts and should have been much larger, but it did help out a bit.
And the HR676 vote is scheduled for later this year, you never know, we might just pass it.
zmann
The Food Stamp portion is slow getting out into the economy, even now. Good article on the problems below. (not just here)
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/101209dntexfoodstamps.3f85eae....
I don't know the schedule of the food stamp payouts, but different programs were scheduled to come online at different times, like the Cash for Clunkers program. I think it would make more sense for the food stamps to be doled out over a period of a year or two, rather than all at once, to help the people who use them save money over the long run.
Well said. The distinction between govt. and corp. does not exist any more. All this is better explained in an upcoming documentary by Alex Jones.
http://www.infowars.com/trailer-4-fall-of-the-republic/
You make a good point. However, some here, me included, do not trust the gov't to provide health care without strings, particularly in the current milieu.
I can't say that the gov't is deliberately trying to kill us but it is quite likely they are taking orders/advice from those who do or from those who want more tax dollars to meet their quarterly profit goals. There are also reports of UN officials, WTO execs referring to us as "useless eaters" True? I don't know.
I do know, however, that a few years ago, flu vaccine was sent to Eastern Europe from one of the big drug companies. The Czech Republic tested it and all vials were contaminated with live avian flu virus. Error? Sometimes they just want to sell vaccines. The cervical vaccine was almost forced upon Texas teens.
Oh, I know there can be contamination, sometimes deliberate, of medicines. For example, after the FDA made Bayer take its HIV-contaminated hemophilia medicines (I don't remember what they're called) out of the American market, it dumped them on Africa.
However, from my understanding, this vaccine is no different from the regular flu vaccine taken by millions each year, except it protects against the H1N1 strain...and all the reports of dangers from flu vaccines are from nearly 40 years ago. I doubt vaccines are remotely the same now as they were back then.
Doesn't your understanding come from media and government wanting you to think just that?
The vaccines are rushed, untested, unknown and this context.
Intentional harm.
http://www.naturalnews.com/026503_pandemic_swine_flu_bioterrorism.html
Depopulation.
http://farmwars.info/?p=1355
It's not like they haven't been killing people for a long time with vaccines. Look at what they are doing here already and think if they might not consider harm here.
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/lanctot.html
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Moore has shown beyond all question that his knowledge of vaccines is very little.
The vaccine were NOT untested and unknown. They were produced similarly to regular flu vaccine and the components are well known.
Before the measles vaccine, more kid in the US died of measles than actually get sick now. Before the polio vaccine came along, there were hundreds of kids crippled for life. Now the only ones you see are those born before the vaccine was made.
This business of vaccines being evil is symptomatic of the anti intellectual movement that has gripped our country since Reagan and is largely responsible for the fact that we are no longer innovators and have lost our place as a major economic power. These people who hate the US are always the first to complain when people who live in reality are unable to set things right.
So, the smallpox vaccine didn't help the world at all? The polio vaccine, how about that?
If an HIV vaccine is ever developed, should it be refused?
How about when the blood supply was tainted with AIDS and the govenment knownly allowed it to be distributed for a period of time until an uproar about it broke in the news....
Homophiliacs were infected by the thousands and whole families where devestated by that decision. Hemophilia is just in men and 80% of homophiliacs where infected at one point the highest percentage of any group at that time.
That meant granfathers, grandson, fathers, unlces, male babies and every male memeber of those families died.
Repeat: a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Obviously nicholas has no idea what he's talking about. First, the blood supply wasn't "knownly (whatever that means) allowed to be distributed." When people learned what was causing AIDS, and developed tests that could identify contaminated blood, the contaminated blood was taken out of circulation.
And homophiliacs (whatever they are) were not infected by the thousands and there is no way in this world that whole families were killed. nicholas has no idea at all what hEmophilia is all about. Just because it is inherited on the X chromosome doesn't mean that every male in a family is going to become hemophiliac. It is inherited from the mother, not the father, dope. So only half of a carrier's sons will become hemophiliacs. And half of her daughters will become carriers.
More lies. From you. The contaminated blood supply was in fact distributed by the Red Cross AFTER they knew AIDS was a blood borne pathogen but no test had been developed to do mass testing. And many hemophiliac families tragically were paid out MILLIONS in settlements by processors of clotting factor because those corporations too knew they were selling a defective product that could lead to the deaths of 10,000 of patients and relations so the corporations could maintain income stream.Try not to be sick as you read about literally blood money:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VBF-43NPR41-B&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=... They didn't disclose the company's inability to offer clean medicine and let the families make informed consent. They instead denied all and conducted themselves criminally to keep the knowledge from going public. Many families lost more than one or two family members, not just hemophiliacs, but their partners to AIDS. Any one remember the name Ryan White?
I remember all this quite vividly because I lived outside DC at the time, the second highest per capita HIV infection locus. I worked in a hair salon mixing with many members of the gay community. There was so much to be angry about. General indifference of the medical community initially, the realization amongst gay doctors and patients that it was blood borne at least 2 years before anyone outside that community took that infection vector seriously. Then once the public at large started seeing HIV/AIDS as a public health problem, the fallout that ensued, blaming the initial victims, gay men, etc for the inaction and harm that was in fact perpetrated by entities like NIH,CDC,Red Cross.
I didn't know the extent of its presence in the U.S., thanks. Gotta love what happens when conservatives are running the government, huh? Nothing but the bottom lines of business are in mind.
It isn't just men, but it is very rare in women (1 in 100,000,000). It takes only 1 X chromosome carrying the defective gene for it to show up in men, but 2 defective X chromosome genes to be expressed in women (the normal gene compensates). So, as with colorblindness, fathers donate the defective gene to their daughters, and on average, 50% of their grandsons will be hemophiliacs.
On the tainted blood story, an excellent book and movie by the same title is "And the Band Played On". A horrific indictment of the Reagan administration which allowed the HIV epidemic to run rampant.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
I saw that movie years ago, HBO was running it. Great film, and very sobering.
I didn't know women coulds be hemophiliacs, thx.
cassandra
Well said!
zmann you are fighting a losing battle in defending the establishment which cares nothing for you. Join the people will you!
All pharmaceutical medicines and medical devices are manufactured by corporations. Where do you draw the line in refusing to take them?
I agree with the later posters starting with OleManRiver. This country is run by the corporations, and we know how much concern they have for our well being. Thimerosol is linked to autism in numerous studies, but the information is heavily censored by the MSM and ignored by government agencies. It's still being widely used.
Our "democratic" government is simply the enforcer for the corporations. "1984" just slid in from behind without anyone noticing. A few people squalled about this civil right and that civil right being deleted, but their voices went unheard. In some regards, we have more in common with the right wing running around in the hills than with the common herd who are so clueless. At some point in time, we may even find ourselves joining forces. What better way to set aside differences than to face a common enemy?
Right now a lot of people are angry. But it isn't about freedom, it's about losing their piece of the pie. Even a 25% unemployment rate (and most of the unemployed people I know aren't being counted) means 75% are working and keeping their homes. So they are still a minority. Minus the ones who bought into those exotic mortgages and went underwater. But I believe that a majority of Americans, much as they enjoy the allusion to pitchforks, won't fight for their rights. They don't even know their rights.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
"Thimerosol is linked to autism in numerous studies,"
This is a major talking point with the conspiracy theorists, but it is not true. The studies that have been done show that autism is just as likely to occur in vaccinated as unvaccinated kids (studies done in Denmark where everyone's medical records are available). A study done in California over a period of years that included changing from thimersol containing to noncontaining vaccines for kids showed that there was actually an increase in autism when the thimersol was dropped. Actually what it showed was that the rate was increasing year to year and the presence or absence of thimersol didn't make any difference.
There have been no controlled studies reported that show any relation between vaccination and autism. The studies that do show anything show that there is a very strong genetic component which has nothing to do with vaccination.
SHILL ALERT:
Texas Aggie needs to git along to his corporate tethering post.
Texas Aggie, there are studies linking mercury contamination to autism and thimerosol is mercury laden. Go to the internet and look at the signs and symptoms of mercury poisoning and do a side by side comparison with the signs and symptoms of autism. The seasonal flu vaccine that was offered at my school employment had an 'I do not have any known allergies to thimerosol or mercury' as a statement on the waiver. So I did not take the shot. That was in there because they chose to use it as a preservative, after they know all the harm it does. That's why they wanted us to sign a waiver. If they truly believed or could prove it was harmless, there would be no need for a waiver. Ironically, the manufacturer and clinic chose not to directly disclose the vaccine contained mercury, instead couching it in terms those of us who read between the lines could catch it. Oh and Denmark's vaccinations? They actually demonstrate what we are saying about the vaccine preservative, because EU governments banned mercury preservatives long ago.
Back to your autism allegations. Yes, there no doubt is a link to genetics as well. But families also share environments. And what cannot be explained are families that had no prior history of bipolar, schizophrenia, and other "linked" mental conditions now have children with these conditions as well as autism. And what explains all the cousins that live in certain regions of the country have 4 or5 times these rates particularly autism vs cousins, that are spread out through other regions, manifesting much less? ENVIRONMENT is something families frequently have in common. It is going to take years of ongoing study to extract data that separates environment from genetic causes for autism; how convenient for corporate apologists. Yet another argument for single payer universal health care. Imagine the pressure on corporations to clean up their acts once people realized companies were socializing the costs for them to maintain profits polluting our environment and genetically mutating our DNA without our consent.
You are taking talking points from your corporatist college lab world and no doubt feel pressure to make sure the buttered side of your bread lands up. Run along to some other site that can swallow your arguments whole, that aren't as familiar with the background as we are.
Here is an article by Robert F Kennedy Jr. contradicting your claims, Texas Aggie: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/
Sioux Rose
TEXAS A--hole: You're an authoritarian schill here to denigrate the opinions and FACTS of those who don't happen to march to your narrow-minded, my-government-is-always-right manifesto. Why don't you go to a right wing site and enjoy like-minded company?
And where's the link to said studies, genius propaganda boy?
Sioux Rose
BE FOR KIDS: I had a plumbing problem at my rental unit today and while the plumber and his assistant showed up, we all started talking politics. They were union guys and told me that the Jacksonville union was no longer accepting plumbers. And there had been some "apprentice" style endeavors going on prior, to teach new people the trade. (The economy forces those with gigs to jealously guard them.)
The plumber began to say we should all stop paying taxes, insurance, even property tax. He added that if enough people did this, marched on Washington, THEY would get it. (I didn't dare ask if he was a disgruntled Republican, but I live in a very conservative area.) This was ONE example of something YOU often point out in this forum. Indeed, progressives, who, after all are getting stuck with rising living costs in every direction, and blue collar workers have a lot in common. And as KIVALS has often pointed out, the social issues have been used as decisive wedges to divide us, so that the elites can conquer by making sure that the "little people" all fight and argue (hello Fox "news") among themselves.
This guy sees what's going on... I think more and more people are getting it.
Here in Florida all vehicle registrations just doubled.
Food costs are going up.
The insurance company is NOT reducing fees but announced it will cover LESS (by law!) in the case of major storms.
The gas company tank rental went from $40 to $100 and if I want it taken away, to try another company (it was there when I purchased the unit), I must pay them several HUNDRED to cart it off.
Property taxes are going up in spite of lower real estate values.
And we are in line for a "stick up" insofar as being LEGALLY required to buy health insurance if the latest bullshit passes.
The banks charge 18-20% on credit cards, but pay 2.2% on CDS
Credit card companies are shortening billing cycles and looking for every which way to charge MORE than their already usurous rates.
I know there are other items, but the list is BUGGING me today! In perfect synch with the plumbing issue, all around me, the shit IS evidently hitting the fan!
Well said SR!
"And we are in line for a "stick up" insofar as being LEGALLY required to buy health insurance if the latest bullshit passes."
Stick up is putting it nicely. I haven't been able to read more than the 1032 pages of the original bill and no one can get their hands on a copy of the B-Bill. It doesn't exist apparently, Max just jawbones it. But its a lot more than just the mandate obviously. Taxes straight up.
The people in America are about to get screwed royally if this bunch of scumbags get their dirt passed. Though I am still convinced I'm right about the decrease in racism, I'm also convinced to adopt your view of the increase in corruption by this bunch. They are beginning to make Bush's boy's look like pikers.
sr: you are getting the picture
say hello to the nwo
taxes and more taxes for the peasants - i mean citizens who get, as you note, get less and less while they pay more and more
i've talked to you about the rockefellers and their plan to control the world (right now they own the oil, food and medical fields to anme a few)
their plan - through any means possible - is to reduce the planet population by 80-90% - this is their stated goal
they are not fucking around - they mean it
vaccinations are a dangerous substance
len horowicz - http://www.tetrahedron.org/ - harvard educated and twice degree'd dr has investigated the cia and their use of chemicals, retro viruses and ebolas and cancers etc as weapons
he also makes clear the connection between aids and the cia
aids broke out in two places initially - one population was the gay men of nyc and the other was a wide spread population in central africa
both outbreaks followed widespread vaccines and innoculation against tb
then you consider the psyop that followed
1. queers were being punished by god for ass fucking
2. the niggers fuck monkeys
you couldn't imagine an uglier, more hateful project if you tried
and it was all paid for by the rockefellers
like i said - they are deadly serious about population reduction
the bank scam the h1n1 scam - its never going to stop until we recognize the rockefellers for what they are
and that is the most empowered group of psychopaths this world has ever seen
there is a really fucked gene in that family gene pool
the dynasty was started in the late 1800's by john d who made his fortune in oil - starting standard oil with the financial backing of the rothschilds debt machine
his mom was a pious quaker who never smiled and his dad was literally a travelling snake oil salesman who, at the time of his death, was wanted in several states for 9 rapes and 4 murders
its not the banks who run this country - it is the rockefellers
CIAIDS <<< that was posted all over san francisco in the 80's >>>
Sioux Rose
LE BEAU: I agree with you about some of the dots you connect. Rockefeller would obviously have a lot of help from things like the Trilateral commission, Bilderberg, the Carlyle Group, etc.
I don't think there is a direct desire to decimate populations, apart from a continuation of war and reprobate environmental policies. I could be wrong on that. Just as some people are incredulous when confronted with data that makes 911 appear a covert inside job, I may under-estimate the levels of depravity at work in those who have influence over policy practiced on a broad global scale.
YACHTIE posted some interesting data (*Collateral Damage website) a ways back, and it saw the Bush family as more influential than Rockefeller. No conspiracy theory is 100% true, but most have elements OF truth in them. I just received my copy of "JFK, Why He Was Killed and Why It Matters" and I intend to read it this weekend. I'm sure my eyes will be opened where they had been wide shut.
First they came for the health workers, and I did not speak out—because I was not a health workers;
Then they came for the pregnant women, and I did not speak out—because I was not a a pregnant woman;
Then they came for the grade school students, and I did not speak out—because I was not a grade school student;
Then they came for the college students, and I did not speak out—because I was not a college student;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.
(apologies to Pastor Martin Niemoller)
Guess who else used that today...
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200910130016
zmann, that's funny. Serves FOXNews right for masquerading as a news source.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
Health Insurance corporations are now saying they're going to RAISE rates after the people attempted to get some heath care justice...
That's a big F.U. to citizens.
Just like the H1N1 profit scheme.
Just like the Bailout profit scheme.
Just like the "war of terror" profit scheme.
etc...
It's called fascism.
Just say no to participation.
This vaccine has been rushed into production and the vaccine manufacturers' have been given immunity from civil tort liability. No mention of this in the corporate media.
The Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness (PREP) Act authorizes the Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (“Secretary”) to issue a declaration (“PREP Act declaration”) that provides immunity from tort liability ...
On June 15, 2009, the Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) issued a declaration extending the PREP Act’s liability protections to 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine.
Check out the CDC website:
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/slv/planners.htm
In 1976 the swine flu vaccine did more damage to people than the flu. Flu killed one person, vaccine killed 25. See 1979 60 Minutes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHLDmaqfA_8
This is an inadequately tested vaccine and that is the issue. If comprehensively tested and found to be safe and effective then the issue takes on a different dimension. As for now, I believe the nurses are doing the public a service. The H1N1 virus, or as it is known here, the hini virus, if similiar to the last vaccine we received for it in the 1970's, carries with it a risk of debilitating and deadly after effects. Thirty thousand people were adversely affected at that time. So the ethical and legal questions are complicated and serious.
Sioux Rose
It's a very slippery slope enforcing flu vaccination.
I don't agree with the school vaccination campaign either.
They start with the nurses, using the argument that they are on the front lines of health care and can act as unwitting carriers of the dangerous virus. Then they'll move to the next "mandatory" group. Just like forcing us to buy health insurance, or hamstringing the EPA when it comes to regulating all the toxic substances we are expected to stand up to... the whole thing serves big pharma or the corporate profit bottom line.
A nation that cares less about its people, one that markets war on false pretenses, is NOT one that gives a damn about public health. This vaccine renders the population a convenient guinea pig pool.
The correlation between inordinately rising autism rates and the cocktail of vaccines given to tiny babies is mortifying. Clean hands, a clean water source, and indoor plumbing have probably done as much in terms of eradicating old contagious diseases as the claims made by modern drugmakers.
The denial of health care that routinely leads to a net loss of lives into the thousands, added to those made obese by faux food fillers (diabetic for life!), added to those who waste away due to cigarette/nicotine addictions, added to those down wind of nuclear tests, or those drinking tap water near "clean" coal excavation zones, added to those exposed to covertly tossed toxic garbage... the numbers become staggering. HEALTH is NOT a priority to this nation, therefore any mandatory campaign MUST be held as suspect.
NICHOLAS: I'm with you!
How can anyone trust a government who has been so patently lying at every turn, with invasions, war, health care, financial bs...how can we trust this is not some sinister program to thin the herd? Nothing is better than soap...good nutrition and a happy heart...and governments who don't unearth the dead from the 1918 Spanish flu from the permafrost in Alaska for it's "potential" lab studies a few years back.
Sioux Rose
CONCERNED: I agree!
Years ago studies on heart disease were done ONLY on men, with results generalized (erroneously, as it turned out) for women.
The "one size fits all" approach is itself bogus. Some people are more sensitive to certain substances (foreign to the body and its innate chemistry) than others.
Take Tasers: however the tests were run, we can be sure they were not done on people with heart conditions! Getting amped with electrical currents is certainly good for no one! Some will respond more gravely than others.
I remember watching how once sprayed with pesticide, the typical insect will roll over and cross its legs. I figure it it does that to an insect, in some smaller way it can't be good for MY cells. Our bodies are made of what, about 20 basic elements? These are shared with the air, the sky, the earth, the water... and more and more are these PRECIOUS elements carrying the detritus of humanity's acts of illogic, greed, and aggression. The dead zones spanning off continental shelves added to the depleted soil, added to that island of plastic disposals on the "convenience isle of material madness" sitting out in the Pacific Ocean, these are a few testaments to the short-sightedness that would rather decimate the holy temple of the natural world, and then pay some imbecile in a lab coat to present us with a magic pill that makes it all go away, or prove nonhazardous, then do the right things at the outset. Bah, humbug to all the magic pills! Real health comes from taking care of our bodies, our food supply, and our precious natural world, THE GREAT MOTHER!
Ms. Rose;
"HEALTH is NOT a priority to this nation..."?
Really? Why just the other day a CEO was said to have told his executive staff that they needed to update their operating philosophy and acknowledge that money isn't everything...health could be 1 or 2%!
A vaccine might confer immunity for you and still leave you a carrier of the illness. Anyone remember "Typhoid Mary"?
The lies and myths surrounding vaccination in this country have been rampant. Our public health system is a national disgrace, so when a group of nurses opposes forced vaccination my ears perk up. My father was a research immunologist who respected nurses more than doctors. My experience with the vaccination debate goes back to the controversies over the relative merits of the Salk vs. Sabin polio vaccines. Our family got the Sabin sugar cubes---the oral live virus triple dose vs. the Salk injection (my father knew Sabin and got the vaccine directly from him). Because the State of Ohio did not recognize this and REQUIRED a Salk vaccination, I was threatened with expulsion from high school for refusing it. The only way out of expulsion was a religious exemption, which ought to tell you a lot about public health in this country.
I'm with nicholas101 on this one. A good public health system requires public confidence that the government will do the right thing based on empirical evidence, and today the empirical evidence tells me NOT to trust "my" government, let alone the Media stenographers who are almost universally medically ignorant.
A good place to start some self-education would be the writing of Laurie Garrett, such as "The Coming Plague... ." I read it about five years ago and it is a mind blower.
Meanwhile, be sure to sneeze into your elbow!
-30-
"A vaccine might confer immunity for you and still leave you a carrier of the illness. Anyone remember "Typhoid Mary"?"
Again with feeling: A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Typhoid and flu are totally different diseases. Typhoid is caused by a bacteria, Salmonella, that lives intracellularly and can cause chronic infections. Flu is caused by a virus that does NOT cause chronic infections. That means that there is no such thing as a long term carrier of flu.
You left out some significant parts of your polio story, namely that the Salk vaccine came first and it was a few years before Sabin developed a live virus vaccine. By that time, the laws about vaccine use were in place. By the way, it has now reached the point that the Sabin vaccine is causing more polio by reversion where it is being used than the wild virus is because the herd immunity is enough that the wild viruses are overwhelmed. Now a person is more likely to be infected by a reverted Sabin vaccine strain than by a wild virus.
"and today the empirical evidence tells me NOT to trust "my" government, let alone the Media stenographers who are almost universally medically ignorant."
Never ignore empirical evidence.
What the hell, don't health care workers always get immunized? This is very Glenn Beck-ish...he's been parading opposition to the vaccine as proof that the country is buying into his bullshit of the Obama administration being a Marxist regime, or something. This is for the safety of those they care for. If they have a problem with that, they need to choose a career that does not involve having the lives of others in their hands.
I see a parallel here with the law in most states that mandates that children must have certain vaccinations before being allowed to attend school. I don't want your kid infecting my kid simply because you refused to protect your child. There is a point where our individual freedoms must become subservient to the common good. These nurses want to have their cake and eat it too.
"There is a point where our individual freedoms must become subservient to the common good."
This is a collectivist philosophy, and has nothing to do with Liberty, or American Values. It is very unamerican and is actually more in line with Socialistic philosophy. So, if I were you, then I would crack open a book and start studying what exactly it means to have american freedoms, which basically boils down to a right to choose for yourself - not to have the government choose for you.
"I don't want your kid infecting my kid simply because you refused to protect your child."
Interesting statement. If your child has had the vaccine, then isn't he suppose to be immune? So that means that the chances of him getting sick after a vaccine should be virtually zero, but you don't seem sure of this. Obviously, you don't have as much faith in the vaccines as you claim if you are still worried about your child getting sick AFTER getting the vaccine.
If you choose to vaccinate your child, then that is you right, but what isn't your right is to tell me I have to do the same. Once you force your will on someone else it becomes fascism. I don't think we as Americans really want, or need, to go down this road.
People that don't understand what vaccines are and do should not be posting about vaccines.
Lesson for today:
1) No vaccine is 100% effective in all individuals vaccinated. It depends on the individual's ability to respond to the vaccine which can be affected genetically or by concurrent health problems.
2) People who do not respond completely are still protected if there are enough protected people around them to prevent the disease from becoming transmitted. Diseases are not transmitted if each infected individual passes the infection to fewer than 1 person.
3) Even people with what can be considered strong immunity will get an infection in the face of an overwhelming pathogen challenge, in this case a virus. The infection will probably not be as severe as in an unimmunized person, but that person is still sick and possibly spreading the pathogen to other people. This can be prevented by vaccinating almost everyone else as well.
I like your characterization of Americans as "I'm ok, to hell with you." That is just what the corporate titans want you to think. It means that the whole populist movement of the last century has been defeated by convincing the downtrodden to accept their yoke. Good on you. The bosses will reward you.
If vaccines prevent the disease they're supposed to
-and-
If your child is immunized
-then-
How can my decision not to vaccinate my child make your child sick?
-or-
Is it that you know the dangers of vaccines and only want other people's kids vaccinated?
People that don't understand what vaccines are and do should not be posting about vaccines.
Lesson for today:
1) No vaccine is 100% effective in all individuals vaccinated. It depends on the individual's ability to respond to the vaccine which can be affected genetically or by concurrent health problems.
2) People who do not respond completely are still protected if there are enough protected people around them to prevent the disease from becoming transmitted. Diseases are not transmitted if each infected individual passes the infection to fewer than 1 person.
3) Even people with what can be considered strong immunity will get an infection in the face of an overwhelming pathogen challenge, in this case a virus. The infection will probably not be as severe as in an unimmunized person, but that person is still sick and possibly spreading the pathogen to other people. This can be prevented by vaccinating almost everyone else as well.
People that don't understand what vaccines are and do should not be promoting vaccines. This includes newscasters, talking heads from hospitals and health industry, and appointed officials.
What you learned in virology101 at A&M doesn't change the fact that swine flu is an epic money making scam
1) Flu (and other diseases) can kill you.
2) Vaccines can kill you - even if it's relatively rare, (not to mention possible side effects).
Shouldn't I have the right to decide if I'd rather risk being hurt/killed by the flu, or a flue vaccine?
Sure, but then you shouldn't be a healthcare worker.
I feel the same way about this as I do about the whiny Christian fundamentalists who are in the reproductive health business but "don't believe" in abortion or even birth control, and refuse to provide medical services to women who need it. Get a different fricking job.
"Sure, but then you shouldn't be a healthcare worker." Or a teacher, or a cashier, or a bus driver, or anybody who has contact with people - that's what's next.
Or maybe patients should make sure they are vaccinated, or else take a risk, like everybody else?
I realize it's not always possible for all patients to get vaccinated, for one reason or another. But there could be other solutions to this problem, rather than mandatory vaccinations. If the vaccine was guaranteed to be 100% safe, that's one thing. But it's not. No vaccine is 100% safe. Who's to say that the potential risk I might pose to other people should be more important than the risk I have to take by getting vaccinated, no matter if I'm a nurse, or a school janitor? Since I might have to bear the consequences in the form of potential side effects, which could range from mild to severe, to death, it should at least be my decision. Besides, what about health-care workers who cannot get vaccinated, because they are allergic, or have some other conditions?
Erm, just about everyone a healthcare worker comes into contact with at their job is at risk for infection due to being weakened by some other medical condition. One need only take a look at hospital infection rates to know that. I don't think that compares with cashiers, teachers, etc.
And as for health care workers that can't or won't get vaccinated, simple, they shouldn't work with patients should a pandemic happen. But that could lead to a very dangerous shortage of health care workers just when they're needed.
I accidentally stumbled upon this:
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/24360
It might interest you, zmann.
I'll check it out, thanks.
Very well reasoned, mike77079. If you feel a vaccine has value for you, that its potential benefits outweigh the risks for someone of your age and health status, by all means get it. If you are vaccinated, it is irrelevant if I get a flu shot.
Nurses are a savvy group. They see all the marketing, profiteering, extortion, experimentation and hype in the health care industry. They have some understanding of epidemiology and public health issues. I support their right to refuse to have a substance injected into their bodies.
Joe
Brilliant post.
After your argument the only conclusion left is that forced vaccinations represent huge profit centers therefore it is very important to manufacture the case for them
If you do not take your responsibility to provide safe medical care for your patients then you do not belong in medicine. It is NOT about you, it is about patient care.
This is why nursing became what it is when it became unionized.
Being a professional nurse implied certain risks that were clear from your first class in nursing. You cannot now decide that you will pick and chose what you will or will not do to be a part of a healthcare system. I am sure Mc'Ds will welcome your right to be contagious. Oh..maybe they would like well people too. Darn.
According to your thinking, all those vets with gulf war syndrome are also at fault...
No, f*ck these corporations like Dyncorp and their modern day snake oil
No, vernn. The argument is that health workers are needed to be healthy so that the system doesn't collapse.
No-one is saying that anything is nurses' fault. You seem to be confused with the logic.
And not just that the nurses need to be on the job, but they also must be free of shedding virus on their patients, who by and large have reduced resistance to disease (or else they wouldn't be in the hospital in the first place) so that flu on top of whatever else they have is just that much worse.
trusting this government
is like trusting
a muderer with your life