Senate Report: Rice, Cheney OK'd CIA Use of Waterboarding
WASHINGTON - Top Bush administration officials gave the CIA approval to use waterboarding, a controversial interrogation technique, as early as 2002, a Senate intelligence report shows.
On July 17, 2002, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, who later became secretary of state, said the CIA could proceed with "alternative interrogation methods," including waterboarding, when questioning suspected al Qaeda leader Abu Zubaydah.
The decision was contingent on the Justice Department's determining the method's legality. A week later, Attorney General John Ashcroft had determined the "proposed interrogation techniques were lawful," the report said.
The same techniques also were used in the interrogations of Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the first person charged in the United States in the 2000 attack on the USS Cole in Yemen that killed 17 U.S. sailors, and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the suspected mastermind behind the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States.
The release of the report, prepared by the attorney general's office at the request of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, details and declassifies the advice given to the CIA regarding its interrogation techniques.
The techniques again gained the endorsement of the Bush administration in spring 2003 when the CIA asked for a "reaffirmation of the policies and practices in the interrogation program."
In a meeting that included Vice President Dick Cheney, CIA Director George Tenet, Ashcroft, Rice and their legal counsels, "the principals reaffirmed that the CIA program was lawful and reflected administration policy," the report said.
President Obama has called waterboarding -- which simulates drowning -- torture and last week released a series of Bush-era memos on interrogation tactics.
One memo showed that CIA interrogators used waterboarding at least 266 times on Zubaydah and Mohammed.
In a 2008 interview with ABC, Cheney defended the practice of waterboarding, now banned by the Obama administration, particularly in the case of Mohammed.
"Did it produce the desired results? I think it did," Cheney said.
"Khalid Sheikh Mohammed ... provided us with a wealth of information. There was a period of time there, three or fours years ago, when about half of everything we knew about al Qaeda came from that one source.
"So it's been a remarkably successful effort," he said. "I think the results speak for themselves."
More recently, Cheney said some people are more interested in reading terrorists their rights than protecting the United States, a dig at the new administration.
Cheney this week called Obama's release of the Bush memos "disturbing" and said the administration is sitting on other CIA memos that show that the interrogations helped stop terror attacks.
"They didn't put out the memos that show the success of the effort, and there are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity," Cheney told Fox News on Monday. "They have not been declassified."
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81 Comments so far
Show AllGod, just look at that scuzzy oil wench! I wonder if she waterboarded her crew on board the Exxon Tanker "Condasleeza"?
No heart. No Soul.
Stink, Stank, Stunk!
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Condy probably has something to plea bargain with. A trial might give us a look.
Condaleeza Rice is very much living up to the sobriquet minted about her by Jello Biafra, "Condasleeza Rice.
Condottiera Rice
"Did it produce the desired results? I think it did," Cheney said.
"Khalid Sheikh Mohammed ... provided us with a wealth of information. There was a period of time there, three or fours years ago, when about half of everything we knew about al Qaeda came from that one source.
"So it's been a remarkably successful effort," he said. "I think the results speak for themselves."
I guess he's referring to the fact that bin Laden is still at large and al Qaeda probably has more resources at its disposal than ever. Every time Cheney opens his mouth, he confirms that the Bush regime was not only the most corrupt, unlawful and irresponsible administration in American history, but also the stupidest.
"So?"
It's still illegal.
War crimes are defined in the statute that established the International Criminal Court, which includes:
Grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions, such as:
1. Willful killing, or causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health
2. Torture or inhumane treatment
3. Unlawful wanton destruction or appropriation of property
4. Forcing a prisoner of war to serve in the forces of a hostile power
5. Depriving a prisoner of war of a fair trial
6. Unlawful deportation, confinement or transfer
7. Taking hostages
The following acts as part of an international conflict:
1. Directing attacks against civilians
2. Directing attacks against humanitarian workers or UN peacekeepers
3. Killing a surrendered combatant
4. Misusing a flag of truce
5. Settlement of occupied territory
6. Deportation of inhabitants of occupied territory
7. Using poison weapons
8. Using civilians as shields
9. Using child soldiers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime
It would be more useful to list the war crimes from a treaty the United States is a party to.
It doesn't matter if the US is a party to the ICC. If the crimes took place in the territory of other ICC member countries, then the US is subject to ICC jurisdiction for crimes committed in those territories, regardless of the US's own membership status. So that includes kidnapping, rendition flights, and torture which either occurred in or transited the ICC member states. That includes Germany, Italy, Spain, United Kingdom, Portugal, France, or any of the 105 ICC member countries.
"Co-operation by states not party to Rome Statute"
"One of the principles of international law is that a treaty does not create either obligations or rights for third states (pacta tertiis nec nocent nec prosunt) without their consent, and this is also enshrined in the 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties.[74] The co-operation of the non-party states with the ICC is envisioned by the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court to be of voluntary nature.[75] However, even states that have not acceded to the Rome Statute might still be subjects to an obligation to co-operate with ICC in certain cases.[76] When a case is referred to the ICC by the UN Security Council all UN member states are obliged to co-operate, since its decisions are binding for all of them.[77] Also, there is an obligation to respect and ensure respect for international humanitarian law, which stems from the Geneva Conventions and Additional Protocol I,[78] which reflects the absolute nature of IHL.[79]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_Parties_to_the_Rome_Statute_of_the_I...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition
So if the UN Security Council refers the Bush & CIA torture people to the ICC, the ICC would have jurisdiction? Too bad we have a veto then...not to mention that idiotic Hague Invasion Act.
I keep thinking of Sy Hersh's comments about Cheney. The man is a Machiavellian master. Condi & W were despicable, but Cheney is the puppet master. Put Cheney and Addington togeather and you have the contemporary equivalent of Darth Sidious and Darth Vader.
Cheney is going to fight this to the death - it's not only about him, but how his administration is going to go down in American history. Cheney could be synomous with Mudd, as in Dr. Samuel Mudd.
The photographer, Stefan Zaklin, has gotten at more truth than any patty-cake Senate investigation ever will. Truly, one picture is worth a thousand words and the gestalt of Condoleeza Rice fairly reeks of evil. Even her smile (?) is suspect. Who more fitting to name an oil supertanker after?
Poet
I heard on msnbc, that one argument for the legality of these"tactics" is that they could be used on terrorist-who are not soldiers. So, does that make them not human? If you read our constitution all the rights are afforded to HUMANS not just soldiers.
It's funny, when I was as young as 8,9 and 10 yrs old, I would see the news and the problems going on in the world and some must have had to do with immigration because I remember thinking then and for years to come including the present, that THE CONSITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES WAS NOT JUST WRITTEN FOR AMERICAN CITIZENS BUT WAS WRITTEN FOR ALL HUMAN BEINGS. yes, that's the way I viewed it even as a little girL. That was in the 60's , into my teen years in the 70's etc. The constitution talks about HUMAN RIGHTS...
Some people also do not think about the fact that many of those picked up on the streets of Iraq were just by standers, or young people who have not had the experiance to make a decision of there own. They are advised by their elders. They were put in Gitmo and just being there is torture enough. But what about the fact that there were no real trials to judge these people,to see evidence of what they may have done or why?
But no matter what- the torture thing is beyond excuse... I say let's have Cheney and his cronies go through and then say whether it is torture or not...
Ah!!they would run out of this country so fast....
I would recommend "Toward an American Revolution"...Fresia..Learn about the Constitution and who it was really meant to benefit.....very enlightening!
Truth is, we need A NEW CONSTITUTION...for us....the average citizens who are not part of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, INC.
100 million USans bowed at the voting booth in Nov 2008 for Darth Viper to continue prancing on their backs, long after he vacated Washing-town. They could have instead voted third party and shook the elite establishment. Well-shaken it will do the bidding of the people. The people advocate a sensible foreign policy like that practiced by say.. more than 9 out of 10 states on the planet? No. Let's not consider those. We better bow and kiss our masters' feet now.
Now the desperation to keep the memos under wraps becomes completely understandable. No wonder the desire to "look ahead" and the unsustainable argument about the "efficacy" of torture. The principals of the Bush administration can hear the footsteps -- trials and their own disgrace in history.
If we EVER wish to regain the image of "the good guys in the white hats" in the world, we need to bring these fanatics to justice and make an example of them that the world will remember.
First of all, it is ridiculous to believe that most of the world is unaware of the serious abuses that took place in abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and other places during the Bush years. Next of all, it is even more foolish to believe that torture is the only way we could have gleaned the information we needed to keep our country safe.
Not only would prosecutions make this disgusting chapter in our history less likely to happen again, but it will show the world that Americans are not just "all talk" when it comes to human rights.
Rice & Cheney ok'd torture.
Cheney ok'd (helped in) bringing the WTC's down.
Rice & Cheney ok'd the Iraq War.
That is one million dead Arabs.
Hurry Obama, catch up fast
or have AIPAC on your ass
Paul Wellstone's plane crash.
PW was an emerging Populist threat.
Tom Eley of the World Socialist Web Site provides the most telling assessment and compelling evidence of clearly impeachable war crimes contained in the Senate Armed Services Committee's Torture Report:
"The report provides evidence that the White House ordered the torturing of alleged terrorists in an attempt to extract statements linking Al Qaeda with then-Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. This fact establishes a direct connection between the violation of domestic and international laws barring torture, the preparation of an unprovoked war of aggression against Iraq, and a conspiracy by the president and his top officials to deceive the American people and drag them into war on the basis of lies. It underscores that the adoption of torture as a tool of foreign policy is part and parcel of a turn to dictatorial forms of rule and the assault on the democratic rights of the American people."
There can be no doubt that the United States, under the control of this ruling-elite ‘corporate financial Empire’ which hides behind the façade of its two-party, ‘Vichy’ sham of democracy, aided by an equally ‘Vichy’ corporatist media, has now become as much a perverse empire as the Holy Roman Empire carrying out the Inquisition, the Nazi fascist empire, or the Stalinist Empire.
Ordinary Americans, in order to preserve their mortal souls will have to rise up against this global empire more compellingly and more effectively than ordinary Germans did, or risk, by their passivity, also becoming akin to “Hitler’s willing executioners”.
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
It's even worse.
Those with the motive, means and opportunity to lay the plans for nineleven also were in charge of the torture program, the ADC exercise on that date, and the "war on terror". Pick up one of those dvds and connect the dots.
This country will be safer when those people and their teams of thugs are effectively and appropriately dealt with by the justice system.
Most massive debacle, heinous fraud, murder and looting in history.
I trust the Obama administration to make good on their oaths.
You'll never believe what someone from Fox News said about torture...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEtFMj6ZiHM
Cheney said: "Khalid Sheikh Mohammed ... provided us with a wealth of information. There was a period of time there, three or fours years ago, when about half of everything we knew about al Qaeda came from that one source."
Cheney does not mention that waterboarding achieved this "wealth" of information.
If one reads the other article on this topic by Robert Parry (recently re-printed here at CD), Cheney's statement can be seen as, at best, a half-truth. Parry claims that most of the information was gleaned by FBI rapport-building techniques, not the harsh tactics that CIA interrogators insisted upon later.
One should be very careful when listening to the snake Cheney.
Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in their moccasins - Native American proverb.
.
Cheney, Bush, and the rest of their NeoCons Administration should be charged with War Crimes and tried at the International War Crimes Court at the Hague.
,
The Nuurenburg trials are the standard that must be met! If it was good enough for the Nazi's and the rest of the world it's certainly good enough for a few thousand American and Jewish war criminals. The person that leads the prosecution of the criminals should be the President if he does not lead he is a war criminal!
“Top Officials Knew in 2002 of Harsh Interrogations,”
This of course included both House and Senate Intelligence Committees who were kept informed on a daily basis of our interrogation techniques and their results, and who also approved of these measures.
Since both committees were bipartisan, we should expect to see some well known politicians from both parties revealed in a complete disclosure.
Did they know that one guy was waterboarded over 250 times? What exactly did they "know", and what could they actually do? What did they "approve." I'm no republican, but these generalized accounts of "knowing", offered as justification for full criminal treatment for all that "knew", are bothersome in a McCarthian sort of way. How much time, effort and money should be devoted to this sidetrack from investigating and prosecuting those who were in charge and gave the orders? We should not be proecuting these ersatz abettors, rather we should be enlisting them in our pursuit of truth. What do you propose, that we vote for Ralph Nadir?
Yada, yada, yada. And of course, congress will "demand" an investigation to investigate the possibility that the investigators chosen to investigate the potential for wrong doing were right headed in their suspicions. Of course, Leahy and Pelosi will want to get to the "truth" by giving immunity to all participants in the alleged enhanced "interviewing" techniques and those that approved them.
Oh, the pliability of the english language is just amazing.
I've got a better idea. Disagree with everything that comes from government on the general assumption that our government has been usurped by criminals. The burden of proof is on the government from now on. Talk is cheap.
"Susan Sontag’s principal gifts to our civilization were not that easily packaged, but were a brilliant, non-stop commentary on contemporary art practices and their effects on our emotions. She did get off one sound bite in an interview on television, which was to me a stunning sermon in and of itself. She was asked what she had learned from the Holocaust, and she said that 10 percent of any population is cruel, no matter what, and that 10 percent is merciful, no matter what, and that the remaining 80 percent could be moved in either direction."
-Kurt Vonnegut
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
Hey, what's half nothing - i.e. why is Osama still out there, if Cheney and the CIA learned so much? This is an ABSOLUTE NON SEQUITUR...Atrocity for nothing, and the kicks are free...?
Are the CIA so senile they can only torture people (generally by proxy)... Who can believe there was no commando out there good enough to catch AQ, especially as they trained them themselves? Do the seals just save captains..?
Either torture works (experts disagree..), and they know it all and have been complicit, or TORTURE FAILED, and they learned next to nothing, or misleading disinformation which lead them astray and intoxicates them still...
In both cases, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Pearl, Rice, Woo et al must go to today's new Nuremberg (Just remember Prosecutor Jackson and those seventy armies it took to take him there, and all their dead...).
At History's bar, let them stand!
INDICT IMPRISON NO BAIL TRY CONVICT FINE BANISH
WHEN WE DO THE VAST WORLD POPULATION WILL CLAMP FOR US
May I remind ALL that there are many other courts that take international law cases? I know of two but I am sure there is more than that. Now forget about CONGRESS. We the 3 to 5 million that are not inane to the political games and the horrors inflicted on us and the worlds populations during the BUSH BUNCH OF THUGS rule and reign can when really connected file with those courts and bring charge against those mentioned and have trials. Now just drop the need for our CONGRESS to do our biding that just is not going to happen for the reasons stated. But there are good courts of law with good sane and sound judges NOT ON THE TAKE that will take those cases from us.
We have that power given us in our CONSTITUTION but little is stated about the powers of the people. Good read.
Dwight Baker We The Peoples Advocates WTPA we are providing the only HOPE in saving our great nation. So JOIN IN and ENLIST to serve with your VOICES being heard and your VOTES being counted and moved along to our lobby group in Washington DC to power push the peoples needs, wants and wishes in our cities, states and Federal Governments.
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What's making me sick about all of this is the Right's claiming that this was necessary and made us safe, that they thwarted potential attacks on the US as a result. Even if this were the case, since when do we condone torture?-- especially since Bush told us "The United States doesn't torture"-- and the US was involved in prosecuting Japanese for the "water cure" used on soldiers in WWII.
Good point. Mainstream USA has become a sick society. I've had NeoCon neighbors who applaud the suffering of others and applaud the use of torture. Republican evil is so palpable I just resolved not to live by them anymore.
We have lost our way..... We are lost.... If 20% of the population feels this way, then none of us deserve to sleep under the blanket of Liberty .....
This whole last ten years is a Godddam Greek Tragedy.
What's needed badly is another Sons Of Liberty group to tar and feather conservative Tories who advocate such evil behavior by government. We should pull down their houses like we did in 1775.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
It doesn't matter if information was successfully gathered using torture or not, it is not the kind of technique to be used by a society trying to maintain the moral highground. I think it speaks well to the quality of pastor Ashcroft is, if he initially agreed to use torture. As with many of the "religious" personalities in government, schitzophrenia runs deep: Right to life - pro-capital punishment, torture and use any means to obtain information - love thy neighbor(love thy enemy, also), wage war while claiming to be peaceful, love the jew - hate the arab, grab for all the money - it is easier for the camel to go through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to get into heaven, etc.
Everyone who had anything to do with the planning and execution of these inhumane treatments need to be investigated, and charges filed, followed by vigorous prosecution. That goes for the actual torturers all the way to the Commander in Chief. Anyone left out will be free to do it again!
From the lowest level ass-covering bureaucratic to the top officials that ordered and knew of torture policies all need to be punished for inhumane war crimes. This needs to be done for any number of reasons; one, that it is what any nations that claims to have any morality or credibility in the world needs to do.
But secondly because in the future when the republicans rig other elections they will be in power again and we know that each republican regime becomes more brutal less humane than the prior republican administration; therefore, it is a no-brainer that the next republican administration will torture, murder, rape and kill any opposition provided they can get away with it. Therefore, if we do not punish the low-level participants it will simply happen again and again and again and again.
But nothing will happen to them. Perhaps if she had given him a .... Oh never mind - it's too repulsive to contemplate.
Joe
Remember when Rumsfeld was so surprised there was any wrong doings at Abu Graib. Then there were several military investigations (ASS covering missions), then after years of investigations it was determined all the torture was conducted by a few bad apples from the West Virginia national guard. And America believed it!
Torture must be punished. This is a no brainer for any civilized nation. But wait isn’t war profiteering a war crime and isn’t destroying a country and killing millions and ruining many more millions lives some type of crime also? Isn’t it a crime to run secret prisons and contract the torturing out to others? But then isn’t a crime to use illegal wiretaps to imprison innocent citizens? Then we don’t want to get into the illegal and illegitimate backroom politics that created the financial fiasco we are in, but those are crimes as well.
Yes, we need to prosecute those that tortured and those that ordered the torture to take place. But when “We The People” supposedly twice elected the most incompetent, corrupt, foul, vile, leader ever to be elected in any democracy we own it to our posterity and to the world to prosecute the bush cabal for all their crimes. We also need to make sure the republicans can no longer rig the elections.
Water boarding has always been torture, it was torture in the 1st century it was torture in the 6th century it was torture in the 13 century it was torture in the 20 century. Only since these crazy American hating, liberty hating, freedom hating, wingnuts stole our country in the last 5 elections has it not been considered torture.
These gutless, inhumane, spineless, worthless, subhuman’s, who’s only concern is to steal all the money the hard working citizens pay to the government. The bush cabal should all be tried and hung like the worthless filth they are. Any gutless inhumane bureaucrat that tortured another human should be executed beside their leaders.
However, this is somewhat sticky since we routinely torture and in many cases murder our own citizens.
What I remember is that at least one congressman said after viewing the Abu Graib photos and, yes videos, in a secure vault, that the public has not seen the worst of them yet. They have not yet been seen by Americans.
Taxi to the Dark Side showed video footage of a line of Iraqi detainees being forced to masturbate in front of guards, probably some of whom were female. I'm not sure I want to see anything worse than that.
Now that we know their ethics - who OK'd the Anthrax Mailings to push the USAPATRIOT Act through congress?
Now that's a great " foul - up " question !
And striking while the iron is hot ( > 2000 º F ),
… why not wonder who ( with the correct LACK of morality ) might have "accidently" demolished the WTC highly suspicious towers, and lied about everything so thoroughly in 2001 -- as we now absolutely do know that 2 planes alone didn't have what it takes ( by hundreds of Mega Joules of energy ) to " pull down " that job ( 3+ buildings ).
And then there's all of those trained professionals who testified to BOTH feeling and hearing massive explosions ( under their feet ), before seeing the buildings started to collapse. No matter what the " paid experts " would like you to believe, hundreds of ear-witnesses are infinitesimally likely to ALL have been wrong, especially as it's on the tapes as well.
Perhaps the "missing" hundreds of tons of nano-thermite high explosives, can be deduced from still active remnants recently found and independently scientifically verified and validated in WTC dusts ?
Namaste
Deepa
The corporate media and Americans focused their attention completely on the "accused" of the Anthrax attacks. They completely ignored the US Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick, Maryland, where Ivins worked, except for a single sentence in The Washington Post: "At home to the Army Biological Warfare Laboratories, the facility ran a top-secret program producing offensive biological weapons from 1943 until 1969." When an American terrorist had access to this weapon of mass destruction and used it on his/her own people, then he/she would not desist from using it on peoples of other nations.
G.W. Bush in his State of the Union address on January 28, 2003 characterized Saddam Hussein as a threat to the US and the world, because this “cruel dictator” had used “the world’s most dangerous weapons” on his own people. So the inference is that he would not desist from using these weapons of mass destruction on others. The other accusation that the US President made was: “Saddam Hussein has gone to elaborate lengths, spent enormous sums, taken great risks to build and keep weapons of mass destruction. But why?” However, if the same question were posed to Bush and the Americans about the weapons of mass destruction produced by the US, what would their answer be? It would have to be Bush's inference about Saddam Hussein: “The only possible explanation, the only possible use…for those weapons, is to dominate, intimidate, or attack.”
"Actually, unflattering photos are used deliberately as an unconscious visual prompt to help mold consensus.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
The targets are who is portrayed in the most unflattering manner."
Ever since Condi became the darling of BushCo, and even before she mentioned him accidentally as her husband, every photograph I saw of her looked as friendly as a photograph of Cheney. I told my wife, "That woman looks like the meanest spirited person I've ever seen." Hundreds of photos at meetings, dinners, interviews, giving speeches; every photo showed a mean, petulant woman glaring at the crowd, the photographer, etc. Frankly, she scared the hell out of me. Still does. So does Cheney.
The camera does not necessarily lie.
True--her brow can be really menacing--but the chosen shot isn't a smiling one. I've seen them both.
Weird things were going on in the Bush administration. Yet I find it hard to believe that Condi and Cheney did not make sure that their asses were covered by their beloved President when they gave the green light for torture.
"Cherchez la Femme" will not do for this admirer of Hercule Poirot. I have a pretty good idea who gave the very first green light either directly to the CIA and Armed Forces or did so via underlings. Does that make Condi and Cheney less culpable? No.
Now here is an irony. While Scooter Libby protected his boss Cheney, Condi and Cheney may be called upon to shield their boss. Will they perjure themselves?
I know that it is dangerous to speculate but I do have a hunch that McCain, had he been elected, would not have released the torture memorandums. He would have "circled the wagons" and kept the lid on.
We owe it to our bumbling President Obama that the truth may eventually surface although I am not too sanguine about that. Bumbling? Yes because his handling of the aftermath of the release has developed into a gigantic debacle which may cost him the election in 2012. I think that Obama's intelligence is vastly overrated.
Deepa
What is being revealed now about the TORTURE carried out by the CIA with the active support of the White House and the top government officials is only what has already been known to the world.
The documents released in June of 2008 by the Senate Armed Service Committee (SASC) confirm that the top officials in Washington have approved the methods used in SERE resistance training to be used on prisoners under US custody. The SASC released a new set of documents that throw additional light on the origins of US torture policies.
Mark Mazzetti reports:
"The documents provide new details about the still-murky early months of the C.I.A.’s detention program, when the agency began using a set of harsh interrogation techniques weeks before the Justice Department issued a written legal opinion in August 2002 authorizing their use. Congressional investigators have long tried to determine exactly who authorized these techniques before legal opinion was completed."
It is now evident that the top officials of the Bush administration not only discussed in the White House about torturing “enemy combatants”, but also gave a formal legal authority to use torture methods on them.
Read:
“The Origins of Aggressive Interrogation Techniques: Part I of the Committee’s Inquiry into the Treatment of Detainees in U.S. Custody.”
http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/supporting/2008/Documents.SASC.061708.pdf.
http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/supporting/2008/Documents.SASC.092508.pdf.
Mark Mazzetti, “Bush Aides Linked to Talks on Interrogations,” in The New York Times (September 25, 2008).
Joby Warrick, “Top Officials Knew in 2002 of Harsh Interrogations,” in The Washington Post (September 25, 2008);
Jan Crawford Greenburg, Howard L. Rosenburg and Ariane de Vogue, “Sources: Top Bush Advisors Approved ‘Enhanced Interrogation’,” ABC News (April 9, 2008).
Some of the causes for the continuous inhuman behavior of the Americans, atleast I perceive, are: 1. American arrogance; 2. Ignorance perpetuated by the American arrogant culture: 3. This arrogant culture is based on the American belief in the US exceptionalism, innate goodness, and moral superiority.
As the Americans cintinue to believe these American myths, they continue to support the inhuman activities of their successive governments.
""They didn't put out the memos that show the success of the effort, and there are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity," Cheney told Fox News on Monday. "They have not been declassified.""
Right. There were memos that would have shown "the success of the effort", but because they were classified they were never leaked....I mean released.
I wonder what Valerie Plame would say about that.
I applaud you for bringing the name of Valerie Plame into the discussion of "Torturegate".
I would love to interview Cheney on the issue of whether the release of the torture memorandums by President Obama has damaged the security of our country. While he is holding forth I would continuously say : "Valerie Plame, Valerie Plame, Valerie Plame....."
Stone has it exactly right: torture is all about creating fear and acquiescence in all who know about it. Americans, by condoning it for others are also condoning it for themselves. Once you agree to it, there are no boundaries. That's the most important reason why it is wrong.
After reading the article, I recall the old spaghetti western with Clint Eastwood, "Hang 'em High". Just do it!
What does it take to know that an administration knows the methods it uses. Do we all have to be transported back in time to the actual events?
Of course that gang of thugs authorized torture.
Condo and Cheney can afford a lifetime of lawyers. In America, justice is a commodity.
Looks like Condi lies alot will be the sacrificial lamb for the evil empire. Bush, Cheney and the rest of the criminally, insane tell us waterboarding is useful and not torture. Bush and Cheney were COWARDS who used all kinds of shenanigans to avoid serving their country during the Vietnam war and they will let every one else take the fall for torture and Condi appears to be first on the list.
"Bush and Cheney were COWARDS who used all kinds of shenanigans to avoid serving their country during the Vietnam war"
You have that dead right. And cowards always run at the first sign of trouble. So.......................
So true, and yet right-wingers still refuse to see the hypocrisy of a team of draft-dodgers declaring an unjust war, while still pissing and moaning about Bill Clinton's "immorality".
Better icons of hypocrisy and immorality than Dick Cheney and W, the world has never known.
People who will torture others will also torture Americans. Condemn! Prosecute! Jail!
Everyone, please contact your Senators and your Representative and tell them how you feel. Contact them by email by going to VoteSmart.Org and put in your zip in the upper left.
Fear is all they have to sell. Lie to go to war. Torture to get false confessions. Free bonus, more "enemies". Bush told us they hate us for our freedoms. Who is the "they" of which he spoke since HE took us back to the time before the Magna Carta? They raised the drumbeat and charge against any who questioned them as traitors while they knew they mislead us. Why, they asked many, do you hate America? Seems to me that any who wished this great country ill could have had no better effects than those given to us by this crowd.
The price of these fear based untruths is too high in lives, treasure and rights. Contact Holder: BY E-MAIL: E-mails to the Department of Justice, including the Attorney General, may be sent to AskDOJ@usdoj.gov. Department of Justice Main Switchboard - 202-514-2000 Office of the Attorney General -202-353-1555 http://www.usdoj.gov/contact-us.html
Nice Picture of Dr. Mengela...err...Rice
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
So, let's start with Ashcroft. who determined the "proposed interrogation techniques were lawful."
He has some scores to settle after the improper hospital visit and with a little plea bargaining could do a lot of damage.
And was Gonzales, as the President's lawyer, at the meeting. of course, he was too stupid to understand what was going on, but his misinformation might provide a lot of leverage for prosecution.
Ms. Rice is breaking new ground as the first African American war criminal.
She looks like a mean, spiteful woman.
Maybe if these leaders were water boarded, too, they would decide that it is indeed torture.
Consolidated Rice-A-Ron is just another garden variety totally corrupt, power/money junkie. They've been a plague upon the human race from the dawn of civilization.
Actually, unflattering photos are used deliberately as an unconscious visual prompt to help mold consensus.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
The targets are who is portrayed in the most unflattering manner.
Vern,
Thanks for sharing that. :-)
BTW, Mr. Obama has a 64 percent job approval rating. I guess most people are comfortably numb.
Good point. And a good reminder not to kneejerk because it sounds good too.
True enough--ya gotta watch out for that subliminal messaging. Although, in the case of Condi, I personally think the photo does her justice.
Actually, I thought it was flattering for the worst Sec. of State in modern times.
Ouch!
Touche!!
Let's not forget that Republican presidential candidate John McCain reminded people during the presidential debates that some Japanese were tried and hanged for torturing American prisoners during World War II with techniques that included waterboarding.
What's right for the goose is right for the gander.
for original story go to:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/29/politics/main3554687.shtml
Jesus Hussein Christ
Thanks for the link. And the reminder.
But when the chips are down John McCain sides with his captors and quacks like a duck and ends up enabling Bush when he could have voted against him. He is a victim of the Stockholm Syndrome too.
The debates were pure political theater for all candidates except Gravel and Kucinich.
There is a civil war on the way here in the US. Can you feel it yet?
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
Saying John McSame is the victim of Stockholm Syndrome is not entirely true. If it were so would imply that John McSame was once a nice guy. He was always an asshole. Why else would he have been dropping bombs on civilians?
I don't know, David Letterman loved him and shares some of that misplaced macho with John. He was a Jessica Lynch poster boy for both sides. They milked the little cow dry on both sides of the Pacific. Crazy making for sure. Republican men are raised on the assumption that it is better to kill than to question. They are given guns early in life and taught to disrespect all life, not just Humans. They start out killing wild birds with BB guns and soon they graduate to pellets and 22's by the time they are 16 they have semi-automatics in their hands. They are very dangerous because they are simply not cerebral.
In addition McCain has always had trouble treating women with respect and like so many other Republicans he suffers from emotional loneliness. It was just easy to get rid of his blues by jumping in his plane drunk and dropping bombs on women and their children. He is the last one to think he has a social problem. Joe Biden was pretty clear that John goes after women when he is drinking martinis, citing his own wife as an example. They have no scruples at all.
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
Screw John McCain.
While bombing civilians over Hanoi he is shot down.
1. As a POW he makes videos difiling the US.
2. Returns a hero & leaves his wife & child-she was in a terrible wreck and he deserted her.
3. Marries the Budweiser Queen.
4. Becomes one of the Keating-5
5. Tries to continue the bush/cheney reign.
6. Last year Rick Davis his campaign manager is part of the eff up w/ Saashkavili, Georgia & Russia
7. Now is hooked up with William Kristol & is advocating more and more war. Then more and more war.
I voted for BO, who will do a lot wrong and some good too. This War-Pig would start world war 3, start it with Iran, do zero good-and irradiate millions of Arabs. That is a lesser evil worth striving for.
SCREW NEOCON-JOHN. I MEAN, LET'S FINALLY LET THIS OLD PIG DIE.
He'll die soon enough.
As charged.
Not that she doesn't deserve it --being the Bush family house servant and all--but watch them try to pin it all on Condoleeza. They always make the woman the whipping boy--recall Martha Stewart who actually did time for something that is like on grain of sand compared to these boys on Wall Street who sit at the Right hand.
Condoleeza always cowered and dissembled for her masters--now she still will carry their water.
Let them pin everything on Condi as they did with Karpinsky.
Karpinsky is pissed and is providing greta evidence on the administration and Abu Gahraib.
Nothing like the abused woman in the old boy's club thrown under the bus...
Anyone see the Karpinsky interview last night. It was very telling, she is fuming mad, emotional and telling the hard truths. She called out everyone from Cheney to Rummy, all of them. She says they are guilty for sure, they knew every detail of what was happening and stood by like cowards as the guards went to prison. This woman is a true American hero, standing up for our values, speaking out while surely facing enormous pressures not to.
“The line is clear. It went from Washington, D.C. From the very top of the administration with the legal opinions through Bagram to Guantanamo Bay and then to Iraq via the commander from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. And the contractors who were hired to do those things.” She said she and the other officers were essentially “scapegoated”
Guilty.