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Afghanistan for Dummies
I'm going to ask for my money back. I've seen this Afghanistan movie before. The first time, Vietnam was in the title.
As in an early scene from the Vietnam version, U.S. military officials are surprised to discover that the insurgents in Afghanistan are stronger than previously realized.
And our protagonist, Gen. Westmoreland - sorry, I mean McChrystal - sees the situation as serious but salvageable. As Westmoreland did with President Lyndon Johnson, McChrystal is preparing to tell President Barack Obama that thousands of more troops are needed to achieve the U.S. objective - whatever that happens to be.
As in Vietnam, uncertainty about objectives and how to measure success persist in Afghanistan. Never has this come through more clearly than in the fuzzy remarks of "Af-Pak" super-envoy Richard Holbrooke who has purview over Afghanistan and Pakistan.
On Aug. 12 at the Center for American Progress, a Washington, D.C., think tank, Holbrooke tried to clarify how the Obama administration would gauge success in Afghanistan.
John Podesta, the center's president who was President Bill Clinton's chief of staff and served as head of Obama's transition team, waxed eloquent not only about his friend Holbrooke but Holbrooke's team; really spectacular, impressive, multidisciplinary, interagency, truly exceptional were some of the bouquets thrown at team members.
Holbrooke said his Af-Pak squad is "the best team" he'd ever worked with, adding that "Hillary" - the Secretary of State whose last name is Clinton - personally approved "every member."
It may indeed be a good team but that doesn't change the fact that it appears to be on a fool's errand. Each member has considerable expertise to offer, but no one knows where they're headed.
The whole thing reminds me of the old saw: If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there. (Or you might say Holbrooke's team finds itself in a dark place peering into the distance looking for a light at the end of the tunnel.)
Pressing for Answers
To his credit, Podesta kept trying to get a clear answer from Holbrooke about the overall objective in Afghanistan, as well as seeking some metrics to judge progress:
"There is increasing concern here at home and in allied capitals abroad about the cost of winning in Afghanistan, and to what end-goals we should aspire ... I hope to focus on ... our objectives in Afghanistan and how we measure progress."
Holbrooke was as smooth - and vacuous - as Gen. William Westmoreland and his briefers were in Saigon:
"We know the difference with input and output, and what you are seeing here is input ... the payoff is still to come. We have to produce results, and we understand that.
"And we're not here today to tell you we're winning or we're losing. We're not here today to say we're optimistic or pessimistic. We're here to tell you that we're in this fight in a different way with a determination to succeed."
In an apparent attempt to get Podesta to stop asking about objectives and how to measure success, Holbrooke tossed a bouquet back at the Center for American Progress for doing "an extraordinary job of becoming a critical center for our efforts."
For those who may have missed it, Podesta's Center surprised many, including me, by endorsing Obama's non-strategy of throwing more troops at the problem in Afghanistan. (The charitable explanation is that there is something in the water here in Washington; less charitably, the Center may have feared losing its place at Obama's table.)
Holbrooke's flattery, though, did not deter Podesta, who kept insisting on some kind of cogent answer about objectives and metrics.
Podesta: "From the perspective of the American people, how do you define clear objectives of what you're trying to succeed as outputs with the inputs that you just talked about?"
Holbrooke: "A very key question, John, which you're alluding to is, of course, if our objective is to defeat, destroy, dismantle al-Qaeda, and they're primarily in Pakistan, why are we doing so much in Afghanistan? ... if you abandon the struggle in Afghanistan, you will suffer against al-Qaeda as well. But we have to be clear on what our national interests are here....
"The specific goal you ask, John, - is really hard for me to address in specific terms. But I would say this about defining success in Afghanistan and Pakistan. In the simplest sense, the Supreme Court test for another issue, we'll know it when we see it." (Emphasis added.)
Holbrooke almost chokes on the words as they proceed out of his mouth, and then takes a very visible gulp of air. Up until this point, Podesta has been bravely suppressing any outward sign of frustration with Holbrooke's malnourishing comments on U.S. objectives and measures of success.
After the "we'll know it when we see it" remark, Podesta pauses for a few seconds and looks at Holbrooke - as if to say, and that's it? Then, like a high school teacher ready to move on to the next ill-prepared student, Podesta utters a curt "okay."
"Know It When You See It"
The Supreme Court test involving "know it when you see it" refers to a phrase used by former Justice Potter Stewart 45 years ago. Frustrated at not being able to define pornography in an obscenity case, he gave up and fell back on the "know it when you see it" formulation.
The same phrase was used by a similarly frustrated official, former Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, in December 2002, just three months before the U.S.-U.K. attack on Iraq. Unable to come up with any specific evidence of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, but determined to rebut Saddam Hussein's claims that he had none, Wolfowitz quipped, "It's like the judge said about pornography. I can't define it, but I will know it when I see it."
How is it that we let people get away with that kind of rubbish when it means people - Iraqis, Afghanis, as well as Americans - are going to get killed and maimed?
But Holbrooke's "we'll know-it-when-we-see-it" measure of success is just the latest sign that the Obama administration has been playing the Af-Pak strategy by ear. The President himself seems generally aware of this, given his readiness to give wide latitude, not clear instructions, to Holbrooke and the generals.
An early hint of the disarray came on March 27, a little more than two months into his presidency, when Obama showed up a half-hour late to the press conference at which he announced a "comprehensive, new strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan."
No explanation was given for his lateness, which required TV talking heads to reach new heights of vapidity for a full 30 minutes. I ventured a guess at the time that his instincts were telling him he was about to do something he would regret.
It soon became apparent that Obama's 60-day Afghan policy review lacked specificity on strategy. The President tried to make up for that with lofty rhetoric - kudos to the alliterative speechwriter who coined the catchy phrase "disrupt, dismantle, and defeat al-Qaeda."
More important, the President also took pains to assure us that: "Going forward, we will not blindly stay the course." Rather, he promised there will be "metrics to measure progress and hold ourselves accountable."
(Yet the key "metric" appears to be what Holbrooke blurted out on Aug. 12, "we'll know it when we see it.")
The Wrong Man
In Holbrooke, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have picked a loser. It is bad enough that he does not seem to have a clue about how to measure success toward U.S. objectives - or, at least, cannot articulate them, even before a friendly audience.
Perhaps Secretary Clinton and President Obama were also unaware of his well-deserved reputation for logical inconsistencies, not to mention the delight he takes in bullying foreign officials - the more senior the person, the better.
A former Foreign Service officer who worked on the Balkans confided that he believes Holbrooke actually prolonged the Yugoslav civil war for several years by pushing a policy of covert military support for the Muslim side.
It should come as no surprise, then, if Holbrooke ends up playing a role in deepening the Af-Pak quagmire, if only by adopting a belligerent attitude towards the Pashtuns and also the Pakistani government - not to mention rival U.S. officials.
In sum, Holbrooke will probably prove more hindrance than help in working out a sensible U.S. strategy and objectives. Worse, he is not likely to serve as a much needed counterweight to the generals, who may well succeed in persuading Obama to give them still more troops for an unwinnable war.
George Will Favors Pullout
Surprisingly, one of the new voices urging a troop drawdown in Afghanistan is conservative columnist George Will, who showed his human side in an op-ed appearing Tuesday in the Washington Post, "Time to Get Out of Afghanistan."
Will starts and ends the piece with references to a young Marine who had just lost two buddies. To his credit, Will avoids the customary quote from the poet Horace - "Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" ("How sweet and fitting it is to die for one's country") or anything like it.
Will says, in effect, that syrupy sentiments and faux appeals to patriotism do not apply in present circumstances. He would probably be the last to draw this connection, but he has begun to sound like Cindy Sheehan, who has been trying for over four years to get George Bush to explain to her the "noble cause" for which her son Casey died in Iraq.
Will ends his article with a heartfelt appeal for substantial troop reductions now, "before more American valor...is squandered."
Kristol Clear
On Wednesday, the neoconservative editors of the Post compiled a series of rebuttals to Will's column in a section entitled "Where Will Got It Wrong," including a lengthy excerpt from a blog post by leading neocon theorist William Kristol, who attacks Will for sentimentality when "it would be better to base a major change in our national security strategy on arguments."
Not surprisingly, given his enthusiastic support for the invasion and occupation of Iraq, Kristol advocates "a surge of several brigades of American forces" in Afghanistan and a determination "to support a strategy, and to provide the necessary resources, for victory."
Alongside Kristol's blog post was an op-ed by Post columnist David Ignatius, another enthusiastic supporter of the Iraq War. (Like so many of his neoconservative colleagues who are such fans of war, Ignatius never wore the uniform. His writings do not show any awareness of what was going on in Vietnam as he pursued his studies at Harvard.)
Regarding Afghanistan, Ignatius concludes that "this may be one of those messy situations where the best course is to both shoot and talk - a strategy based on the idea that we can bolster our friends and bloody our enemies enough that, somewhere down the road, we can cut a deal."
You may recall that President Johnson followed a similar strategy of trying to bomb his Vietnamese enemies to the bargaining table. Worked like a charm, as is well known.
Counting the tragedy in Iraq - as well as the one in Vietnam - this is the third time I've seen this movie.
[To see a clip of the exchange between Holbrooke and Podesta, click here for The Real News, and view segment 1:53-2:05.]
- Posted in
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53 Comments so far
Show AllAnyone care to answer WHAT EXCUSE we used to invade Afghanistan?
After we were attacked on 9-11, Dick Cheney and the brain trust wrote up a wish list of those they'd like to attack in response. There was some super secret evidence that the attack had come from Afghanistan. We were not allowed to see it because that would cause the color-coded terror alert to go to red. So, Deputy George showed the evidence to our good friend Tony the Poodle, who pronounced it good. The rest is rubble.
Yeah.
We were gonna smoke 'em out.
"Excuses" don't matter.
We're an empire now. We act, then the rest of the world can see what happens. We speak, and all must believe.
You lefties have absolutely no recourse for dealing with us. You are like mosquitoes on the back of an elephant.
You paraphrased that insane notion a little incorrectly:
The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do
(from an un-named Bush aide in an article by Ron Suskind)
Might does not make right and the rest of the world does not have to believe a thing other than try to stay out your way and bide their time until they can thank you properly for your wanton destruction and lack of humanity. All empires fail and the payback is a bitch.
So you don't see it now?
Point to the metrics of success.
Oh, it's all just voodoo wishing.
Ooga booga.
nevergiveup -
The sole excuse (justification) for the invasion of Afghanistan put down in writing by Congress in its 2001 authorization for use of military force resolution was to bring to justice those who attacked New York and Washington DC on September 11th. Period.
There is nothing about spreading democracy, stabilizing the arc of radical Islamic instability, preventing a domino effect that might topple the civilian government of Pakistan, advancing Afghan womens' rights, suppressing international heroin trafficking, nation building, oil/natural gas pipelines, or anything else. The 2001 AUMF is noteworthy for its specific, limited scope. It's all about retaliating against those who took part in the 9/11 attack, or any individual, group, or government who "harbors" those particular evil doers.
Perhaps that partly explains why Holbrooke, McChrystal, and others do a vague, linguistic tap dance about defining what the new, revised objectives of the US military presence in Afghanistan are. If those who want a deeper military involvement articulate those mission goals, then the Obama White House would have to go back to Congress to seek a new authorization for use of military force resolution.
That's how the separation of powers, and our constitution's system of checks and balances, was designed to work.
Bill from Saginaw
Bill from Saginaw September 2nd, 2009 12:54 pm............All the more reason to re-investigate 9/11 and get to the source of the problem.
Like Ray McGovern says: "This is the third time I have seen this movie". As long as the banking, military, congressional, corportocracy, determine America's foreign policy; the movie will be repeated over and over and over again. What O Bomb A is doing in Pakistan with the drones and killing civilians in Afghanistan is an Obamanation to say the least. The abomination is this: BR has sold out his country and the his own people and as another CD article said; we have the same foreign policy that Bush had, nothing has changed. " Johnson tried to bomb his Vietnamese enemies to the bargaining table". Enough said.
Good article by Ray McGovern comparing how the military today believes, as in Vietnam, they they can practically see the light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately, while lauding Will for his stance in calling for troop withdrawal from Afghanistan, Mr. McGovern failed to note that Will also called for in his op-ed a continuation of the air war against the Afghans which will [no pun intended] not exactly confuse Will with being the Gandhi or the Daniel Berrigan of the right and nor will it ever [justifiably] win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people.
T'is indeed a good article, but the one thing I noticed is something that you too mentioned. The idea that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I thought they've misidentified where they are, they're not in a tunnel at all; they're in a bloody cave.
The saying that went around during the last stages of the Vietnam war was "That light at the end of the tunnel is the headlamp of an oncoming train."
There are two ways to get out of a tunnel, and there is also a chance that the light at the end of the tunnel is a safe exit. On the other hand, in almost every cave there is only one way out.
This cannot stand: "In Holbrooke, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama appear to have picked a loser." - - just picking the wrong people; an employee problem one would assume - - why is this guy always making excuses for Obama. It is important to note as Erroll did in passing that George Will is advocating drone strikes, missile strikes and aerial bombing - - this is the Clinton strategy used so effectively against Yugoslavia where the US liberated Kosovo after killing a few hundred (thousand) civilians (the troops were underground and unscathed) without the loss of one US soldier - - not one. Holbrooke was also one of the architects for the slaughter in Kosovo under Clinton.
Right, the whole Af/Pak team is top-drawer, the best and brightest. I think we've seen this movie before.
Arrogance tends not to know its limits.
first off george will is a strange and odd little man who makes anal retentive seem like a xgamer going for a world record on a skateboard
i'd like to grab his nose in a vice grip
he makes cardboard seem luxurious
his afghan article is full of shit and delusion. in that article his main point is hinged on the notion that we are in afghanistan to bring democracy to the heathens who live there
even cheney is rolling his eyes at that one
he never mentions the oil or the gas in the region, the geopolitics of killing off the resistance to nwo in russia and china, he never talks about the heroin pipelines that the military is protecting
why anyone listens to that 60 year old virgin i can't understand. must be the same folks who thinkof newt gignrich as an intellectual...
we are in afghanistan to create oil and gas pipelines, steal oil and gas, attack russia and china, oh yeah there is this whole thing about dominating the world
full spectrum dominance as the army calls it
Great comment! I'm still laughing.
long before there was the 9/11 - over ten years ago - i used to argue with friends , though they kept laughing at me for making up things:
anyway - i used to tell them certain things that turned out to be true although my observations were only guesswork as I said:
1) "that grand wall street of yours that america brags about? i suspect that it is all mostly phantom value wealth...there are too many of these fancy-sounding terms that smell like snake-oil...and i believe it's going to collapse like a pack of cards some day" - the ones that studied economics in columbia university just laughed and told me i know nothing...
2) "i think the USA really wants RUSSIA as a grand trophy for Russia's immense natural and geographic resources ..and i think the USA has always lusted after RUSSIA - and would love to surround her , render her impotent , so that the USA can dictate , and then take over with corporations...etc."
they laughed of course
3) "I think that the USA wants to be sure to ALSO encircle CHINA because china has every potential to one day become the world's greatest economy and power and that's something the USA can not accept...one way of doing it is to ensure that the USA tries to PREVENT russia and china from reaching their FULL potentials as sovereign states - and by the USA inserting itself in the central asian region to keep its fingers in the pie".....
they all laughed at me .
i think they were wrong.
You can say that Afghanistan is primarily about oil and oil pipelines. That's certainly part of it. What Afghanistan is really all about is penises, testicles and testosterone. In polite, or "elite" circles, the euphemism "National Honor" is employed. But it's still about dicks and balls: Obama's, McChrystal's, Hillary Clinton's and every other strutting little Napleonic MoFo hiding out in the bunker and egging everyone else on to charge the machine guns with nothing more than a swagger stick.
Very well said~!
this reminds me of that movie series "ALIEN"...
the SECOND installment - AlienS -
showed the "american corporate mercenary flag flying"
GUNGHO band - sent to "find out" or "pacify" what's wrong in the planet far away when the "colonists" suddenly went out of touch...
and these gungho band - bedecked in their boom-boom gear were so excited and courageous..until they met the "enemy" Aliens...
as Ripley the woman warned all of them - NOT to go there ...
that's one part,..the other part are those that sent the people to the alien planet - the corporatists - so confident in their technology and dollars .....
in their different ways - UNTIL they met the "enemy" -
both sides were GUNGHO at their power., feeling "AT HOME" in their power.
the same way with Washington AND its grand army of Gungho, macho , "comfortable in their SKINS of WEAPONS" americans...
are basically what the great German poet and dramatist Wolfgan Goethe described:
"THE COWARD IS COURAGEOUS IN THE SAFETY OF HIS OWN HOUSE".
THAT' is basically waht american "foreign policy" really is...
it's "safety" is based on surrounding and bedecking itself with GUNS, BOMBS< AMMUNITION< DOLLARS,
but when in the TRENCHES with the "enemies" that IT CREATES
they are ALL of them COWARDS.
AN observer wrote somewhere in another website - someone steeped in the affairs of the region:
"ALL THINGS EQUAL - if the Afghanis (taliban, alqaeda ,tribes) were put one to one against US americans - without our drones and helicopters and bombs and jets..just on equal terms...
"we would be in deep trouble....the "war" would be over in the first moments...we'd be NO match for these warriors".
nay -- the THOUGHT of it would make americans TREMBLE - at HOME..and never dare to set foot in those foreign lands....
Maybe George Will is beginning to doubt the imperial adventure in Afghanistan because his guy did not get elected to the White House this time. Maybe in about three years and about seven months from now, he will again support the invasion of Afghanistan.
Maybe George Will is beginning to doubt the imperial adventure in Afghanistan because his guy did not get elected to the White House this time. Maybe in about three years and about seven months from now, he will again support the invasion of Afghanistan.
Long Live Ray McGovern!
He is one Christian that I wholeheartedly agree with. His experience with Army intelligence and the CIA give him insights like few others.
I love to hear his voice as well (interviews on D Now, Flashpoints, etc.), too bad we don't see him on PBS Newshour, for example. In fact, he should have a daily or at least weekly segment on Newshour. However, I do know why things like that never happen.
Death to Ray McGovern and all the Obama apologists.
Where is your evidence my violent friend? Killing your allies will do you no good. No wonder the Left is doomed.
McGovern is not my alley; he is my enemy. He has no complaints about Obama except he has "chosen a loser" - - poor choice. Who are your allies? DK seems rather mild. There are people, innocent people, being tortured, blown to bits, having a gun stuck in their face, driven from their homes by US military - - as we speak and write. I'm afraid I have no patience with politics. I really wouldn't kill McGovern but would rather throw him into one of his CIA friend's secret prisons.
If McGovern is your enemy, you have very few "alleys" left my friend and you stand rather isolated. He is not a socialist nor an atheist, and I may not agree with everything he says however he is my ally and I believe he is a great person. I don't have time or space to give a lecture about democratic and political theory, but in our system McGovern is a strong ally for the Left. Sorry to break the bad news.
What you say is quite true: I have very few allies, I am rather isolated, McGovern is your ally and you believe he is a great person - - I totally agree with you. Furthermore, I believe he is a strong ally of the Left. I am not of the Left/Progressive/Liberal crowd nor the Right nor the Center. McGovern is a perfect example of the Left, impeccable. You, my friend, are also a perfect example of the Left, perfect - - arrogant, foolish, delusional. Do you give lectures about democratic and political theory and "our" system (what system is that?) - - have you got a book out or are you on the lecture circuit - - are you a Political Science professor or high school teacher? Since you don't have time or space to give a lecture about democratic and political theory, do you have a webpage where we could learn from you? Maybe you can tell us peasants "how a bill becomes a law." You're not breaking any bad news, my friend, it is right before your eyes.
"Long Live Ray McGovern!
He is one Christian that I wholeheartedly agree with. His experience with Army intelligence and the CIA give him insights like few others."
I second the praise. What a great American is Ray McGovern. We loyal citizens who want to save America's reputation salute Ray, for his candor and bravery. As witnessed by the violent post of some pentagram nut earlier, Ray is a great patriot also to be commenting on an aspect of the truth that MSM won't usually touch. The propaganda drones try to blame CIA for torture, when in fact it is commonly tolerated at the Pentagon. "I am shocked, Shocked, that torture is going on at CIA!" they say in Rick's Casino in Pentablanca land.
I learn something important about the machinery of government every time Ray posts.
Ironic, isn't it? That since the representational government has failed to be accountable to the citizens like the founders intended, that the only checks and balances left, are the Shadow Government like CIA that was set up to empower government!
Crazy World!
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Ray: every sentence which Holbrooke or Podesta spoke is the language of a Colonial Viceroy.
I quote your fine contribution: "On Aug. 12 at the Center for American Progress, a Washington, D.C., think tank, Holbrooke tried to clarify how the Obama administration would gauge success in Afghanistan".
That is vintage Colonial Viceroy! A sane person would posit: "what counts is how the Afghan people gauge success in Afghanistan". My hunch is that most of them would say: Our success is when you frigging Yankees are all gone".
All Holbrooke or Podesta can come up with is we, we, and more we. That is a sure-fire prescription for disaster in Afghanistan because the people of that country understand very well that the re-election of US presidents and congresspersons is infinitely more important to our rulers than their lives, well-being, and freedom from foreign occupation.
Seems we have a rerun. BO needs to learn that LBJ cost us the oval office in '68 and '72. He can kiss 2012 away if he stays the course.
What Obama is trying to do now is getting by without troop increases by employing more "security" firms like Blackwater and Wackenhut - who have as of today been accused of serious misconduct in guarding the U.S. embassy in Kabul. Obama has essentially given up and thrown in the towel when it comes to the U.S. policy in Afganistan. Mercenaries are paid to kill period. You have given up any pretense of nobility and good intentions once the war is turned over to these thugs -which they are - who are not trained in any way except to fire a gun. When Obama policy fails, they always go back to Bush policy - although sometimes it's hard to tell the difference, which is more drone attacks and Blackwater mercs. But that will not win over the hearts and minds of the people in Afganistan.
Certainly the US would not still be in Afghanistan if it were not for dreams of pipelines and control of Central Asia. However, I think we should pay attention to the wonderful opportunity Afghanistan offers the warmongerfiends to perfect their newest unmanned killing machines. Remotely controlled and robotic killing machines are the future (at least in their disturbed minds) and the warmongerfiends are undoubtedly overwhelmed with excitement when considering the possibilities. With targets in such a remote area with little chance of the production of accurate recordings of the attacks by "unfriendlies," the warmongerfiends can somewhat surreptitiously test new generations.
What's worse, it looks to me like all the new movies are glorifying this for young kids. From the cartoons to the HBO movies stormtroppers chasing "peace terrorists" in mechanized armor suits save the day.
When is the Hitler Youth going to get cranked up again, I wonder? How about the gas trains? Well, we have everything else already:
Blitzcreek: Check!
NSA Blimps over the fatherland: Rodger!
SS warentless phone taps: Check!
Brownshirts/Blackwater Check!
Pilotless Buzz Bombs: Rodger!
VP Death Squads: Check!
Torture: Check!
Gitmo Concentration camps: Check!
I.D. Required for everything: Check!
Your papers are not in order........
Yep, we're almost ready for der Fuhrer to declare world war and launch the V2's against those inferior Islamic races!
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Do most Afghans see us as allies or as occupiers, given their experience with the French,British and Russians? Do our drones that kill many civilians win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people? Maybe Bill Kristol should volunteer to fight in this tragc war.
Occupiers. Not only that but the more religious also think we're blasphemous because the Christian is a person who worships a prophet as if he were God.
Bill Kristol volunteer to fight a war? Bwa ha ha ha! That man's the poster boy for the chickenhawk brigade! No, no, no, Billy's far too manly to engage in the mundane role of actually fighting for the freedoms he holds so dear. Other mother's sons should be proud to give their lives to save his most valuable arse.
Isn't the elephant in the room regarding 'outputs' really just the fabulous profits the mercenaries, private contractors and arms merchants have raked in (and which the purveyors of oil want to keep raking in, not to mention drug$$$$$$ as lebeau remarked) as a result of this otherwise disastrous enterprise? I mean why would a capitalist empire be there so doggedly spending blood and treasure if there weren't some major return on investment to be made? Anyone know of a good source for a graphic that shows profits for the biggest moneymakers in Afghanistan? Yeah, I know, bringing 'freedom' and 'democracy' and all that is more in keeping with the standard PR, much like in Vietnam, but if that were the case, wouldn't there be a heckuva lot more 'democracy' and 'freedom' being employed in the process both at home and abroad? Not to overstate the obvious, but the trouble with the Machiavellian means of war is that sometimes the lack of transparency/accountability/valuing of human (and all other) life indelibly colors the ends (or 'outputs') with that same lack.
I have never believed that the people who lost their lives, and the people who lost their loved ones---all innocent---on 9/11 deserved that terrible day.
It is hard for me not to point out that the USA did deserve the attack, and the ones before it, and the ones that are next.
Mr. McGovern is lauded as a 'good american' a 'good christian' and many other wonderful accolades, but in reality, he is still a member of a failed empire. As a former member of the CIA---and now a 'crusading christian', and ' Steering Group member of "VIPS" ---and a widely published author; but he fails to address the obvious.
The USA is a failure as a 'Democracy' and has been from the beginning. They have not won any of the wars they have 'started', and for all of the 'wars they helped start', they can claim no victories either. They cannot keep their word, they will go to insane lengths to justify the same actions they condemn in others.
The absolute lunacy that 'democracy' can exist along side of Islam, is so absurd; but Mr. McGovern does not mention that either.
The 'strategy for Afghanistan' that should be adopted is the same 'strategy' that should be adopted for all 'foreign affairs'---a very simple concept that the USA has not tried yet; and most likely will not. That 'strategy' is very simple, straight forward, and encompasses the only true form of leadership; that of example.
When the USA truly is a perfect example of how a nation should conduct it self, how it should take care of its own people before those of other nations; how they should live the example that they claim they are---but have fallen very short of, and in some areas are dismal failures. If the USA were indeed the example, the other nations would send their 'delegates' to the USA, and PAY the USA to teach their delegates 'the wonderful news---heaven here on earth--the greatest nation on the planet and in the history of the planet.'---and how to accomplish the same for themselves.
Instead the USA is revealed with each new day, especially recently, as being the horrible and negative example to the world ; and the world now fears and loathes the USA.
Instead the USA strives to live the example of the following:
"If the USA were another nation, the USA would invade the USA to keep the world safe; and the would be justified."
Good Luck America, you really need it.
Many who died in the 9/11/2001 attacks were not innocent. 125 were employed at the Pentagon, which had been constantly waging war against Iraq for over 10 years at that point, with a death toll of hundreds of thousands, probably more than a million. Many others voted for the Bush-Cheney ticket, bring back much of the "leadership" that started the US war against Iraq. Those people were not innocent, they conspired to commit and abetted mass murder.
gde September 3rd, 2009 3:21 am......NONE of us were innocent. We ALL sat back...and continue to do so.....letting it all happen. Did you put your life on the line to try and stop it? We are sll guilty to one degree or another.
Sioux Rose
NATIVE SON: Excellen post.
KIVALS: Very interesting observation.
Mr. McGovern,
Sir, as always, you tell the straight truth here. I never have been able to understand the blood lust of those who cry for war, war, and more war, yet have never even worn a uniform, let alone been in an actual shooting war.
Even more amazing than that, why do those who have the power to continue or stop a war, listen to these "chicken hawks"? If the likes of Limburger, O'Really, Hannity, Kristol etc ever were to be critical of my love for America, I'd just show them my honorable discharge from US Marine Corps and my DD-214 showing my tour in Vietnam with 5th Marines. Yep, I am a vietnam vet. Would that that miserable war had not been fought also.
Our leaders need to go and read the booklet by General Smedley Butler "War is a Racket". The general was 100% right when he said that in the 1930's and his words are as true as ever today.
More people should have been with Ms. Sheehan picketing Oh-bomb-them on his vacation. We need to support the troops by bringing them home. Again, from General Butler, there are only 2 reasons for war. 1; to defend OUR homes. 2; to defend the Bill of Rights.
ENOUGH of these wars of choice. Enough of war!
I never got assigned to Viet Nam, but two of my friends who served in Viet Nam have died from cancers developed through contact with "Agent Orange" or "Agent Pink"....
The article does not mention Richard Holbrooke's attendance at Bilderberg Club Meetings (Created by the Rockefellers and, at times, directed by Henry Kissinger.) and nobody ever mentions the "Oil Pipeline" being constructed through Afghanistan. Articles on Afghanistan never mention that the United States, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan put the Taliban in power and when the Taliban reneged on the UNOCAL deal and gave the pipeline to Bridas Oil of Argentina, "The Power Elite" wrote "The Project For A New American Century" which included the "Invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan"......"The Power Elite" then stole the election of 2000 and inserted their team of "Evildoers"........waited to put together their "False Flag Attacks of 9/11" and OLE! "They have garnered profits in the "TRILLIONS" of dollars.
Since "The Power Elite" have control of all media including this, almost all Americans are denied the "TRUTH" and are not allowed to protest.....Our objectives in Afghanistan and Iraq are based on "The Carter Doctrine" written by Zbigniew Brzezinski, "Any time the "Vital Interests" of the United States are threatened, the use of military force shall be used." The United States has over 1,000 bases that function with OIL.......That Mr. Holbrooke is the only objective, to control the flow of OIL to the United States and its military bases.
War is a path best taken with little introspection. Profits are much too high to discontinue based merely on lack of strategy. Lives are nothing more than obstacles between the elite and their payoff. So the metric that no self interested politician will utter is sustainable profit. The operating cost in non liquid assets (human life) is inconsequential.
It's the accumulated wealth of the working poor that the elite are so hell bent on stealing by tearing flesh from bone.
We'd be much better off if we supported legislation that allows for unrestrained personal spending by all government employees until all the money is gone, and then allow them to borrow from China, until they have everything
they could possibly want...
OR
Support legislation that calls for public execution of any public servant who's approval rating falls below 50%. Now that's democracy!
We are about 8 years into the Afghanistan cauldron - 8 YEARS!!! This is one big tunnel if we have spent 8 years in it, searching for a light at the end of it (a locomotive, no doubt). In a couple of years we will break the Soviet Union's modern day record for military involvement in Afghanistan.
What exactly has been accomplished? The "official" Taliban government has been replaced by nothing even remotely resembling a democracy and which, other than in Kabul, has no real power.
Terrorism is on the rise and has been for 8 years - more Islamist militants are signing up every damn day.
It can't be all bad of course, a few individuals and corporations have become obscenely rich in all this futility.
We'll just keep slugging away, hoping for the best...
Success in Vietnam was the body-count; I wonder when that one will be used. With the amount of money wasted in the region, every man, woman and child could have been bought into some useless national army, with beautiful uniforms and fake guns.
Hmmm
So in the final analysis who wins when we finally leave Iraq, Afghanistan and Kuwait? Surely not the American people. We paid with lives, our livelyhood, our grandchildrens future via debt. Obviously the Oil companies made out famously. When Bush took office in 2000 oil was at $10 per barrel. Once the "war on terror" started, oil prices and profits never looked back. In 2000 the Afgan government had virtually eradicated the drug trade in their country. Within 2 years of bush sending in troops drug production had skyrocketed to record levels. Records kept being broken every year until late 2007. Clearly the Israelis are winning here. One by one their "enemies" (states standing in the way of their imperial expansion plans) are being reduced to ruble-literally. The people of those states being slaughtered by the millions -literally. Their youth dying via depleted uranium and other toxic wastes left on in ruble of every major city.
And yet throughout the entire war on "terror" none of our borders were ever sealed. the Mexican border was letting in 3-5 MILLION people per year. Canada was still an open gate. Our sea ports wide open to anything. Funny enough not a single "terrorist" managed to slip through this airtight defensive perimeter set up by our Commander in Chief who was so worried about us. We have spent 3 trillion on foriegn war for Israel and the oil/drug trade in the last 9 years. What did we the people get? Bankruptcy!
Ray McGovern's CIA for Dummies:
1. The CIA has specialized in overthrowing democratically elected governments in the name of preserving a favorable business climate for multi-national corporations.
2. The CIA has planted agents within american newspapers, wire services, and electronic media for the purpose of channeling disinformation and propaganda to the american people.
3. The CIA has trained countless police forces in methods of torture and repression to thwart political movements deemed not in the best interests of US multinational businesses.
4. The CIA has researched and cataloged numerous torture and mind destroying techniques (Google: Kubark) many of which are still being used by the monsters at Guantanamo, Baghram, Abu Ghraib, Diego Garcia, and other remote contract prisons.
Ray McGovern's CIA in short is nothing more or less than an organized crime ring which has operated to do all the nasty work that Presidents and their political party leaders don't want to dirty their delicate little hands doing.
Pipelinestan (with 3 projects suppossed to begin in 2010) is nowhere ready for feasible implementation and the multi-nationals behind it ar sicing their little toadies like Will and McGovern on the Obama adminstration because they are pissed.
Poet
and POET -- the most down-to-earth but POETIC way of saying it was said by General Smedley Butler, US MARINES, in 1933 speeches
after admitting his own "30 years of service to our BIG BOSS ..our supernationalistic Capitalism"...AND "i suspended my own conscience ....knowing that what we DO is EVIL"...
and he called US policies - including the "true purpose of our armed forces - to make the world safe for our Capitalism and our Cultural and Economic Assault".....
as "OUR MONEY RACKET. OUR WAR RACKET."
and "you can then say I was our Capitalist Racket's HIGH CLASS MUSCLE ENFORCER .....the CHIEF Enforcer for OUR GANGSTER Capitalism".
and THAT was BEFORE the CIA and the USA 's GANGSTERISM sprouted its present Hydra Monster - many-headed Gorgon Beast of Imperialism...complete with
"Standing Army", Mercenary Privatized War, CIA, FBI, NSA, and goodness knows what other secret organizations - as well as its "think tanks" and PRETEND "democracy" organizations like
"School of the Americas", Freedom Foundation, Heritage Foundation, blah, blah, blah.
i mean -- all the previous "empires" hold no candle to the completeness with which the USA practices ALL THEIR COLLECTED craven practices.
it is breathtaking in how it perfectly fits the ONE word
General Smedley Butler eventually described as US policies:
"EVIL".
PLAIn, PURE EVIL.
Teddy--
In an episode that deals with the Bonus Marchers on Washington during the Great Depression there is this wonderful clip of General Butler addressing the assembled marchers and encouraging them to stand their ground.
You can also see dauntless Doug MacArthur (then Army Chief of Staff) with the aid of George Patton and Dwight Eisenhower (then only majors) displaying the insubordination streak that would become more famous during the Korean War by disobeying President Hoover's direct orders and resorting to armed violence in clearing out the Bonus Marchers from their encampments.
You can view the entire episode at:
http://www.documentary-film.net/search/watch-free.php?&ref=167
Poet