3300 lobbyists and 300 million citizens. What are we going to do about it? Are we still in the schoolyard with the bullies running recess?

I think so.

With so many Americans without healthcare and a government plan that would still leave millions without healthcare are not those who lobby against singlepayer systems terrorists?

"There's nothing wrong with different interests trying to advocate their position"

Actually, there is something very wrong about it when those interests are in direct conflict with the interests of the nation's purportedly sovereign people and are both bribing and intimidating the alleged representatives of that people contrary to the democratic will.

It's not just wrong. It should be a criminal offence in any just society. But who ever said the U.S. was a just society -- or even a true democracy for that matter.

Could the discrepancy between U.S. "freedom and democracy" propaganda and its reality be any more blatant? I suppose anything's possible in the "land of the free and the home of the brave." There appears to be no limit, or at least none that is actually enforceable by the people themselves.

White House:"You're not going to get health care legislation without involving the hospitals, without involving those that provide medications, without talking to groups that represent doctors or patients or seniors, nurses, what have you,"
*********
If Washington listened to the above it would be great, but it's all about the below Wall St. interests.
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Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) at No. 3, spending $13 million

Pfizer in the No. 6 spot, spending $11 million.
&
Blue Cross Blue Shield

AARP

American Hospital Association

American Medical Association

Eli Lilly

each having doled out between $7 and $10 million this year.

A little research quickly shows anyone how absolutely hopeless it is for us to expect any real reform regarding healthcare. We don't stand a chance against the lobbyists and senators who are in their pockets. It is common knowledge that there is a "revolving door" which exists between the Congress and K Street. These individuals are constantly "exchanging places" as elections take place.

For example, take a look here at the contributions Max Baucus (Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee) received from special interests related to healthcare during this campaign cycle. You'll have absolutely no doubt whatsoever where his vote will go and who he is really fighting for. And guess what? It ain't YOU!

He has filled his coffers with money from healthcare and insurance companies as you can see from the list below. It is a list of the amounts of money he received from his top five individual contributors and his top five industry contributors during this election cycle.

INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTORS:
Schering Plough Corp. $76,200.00
Goldman Sachs $47,900.00
KK&R Investment Corp. $47,000.00
Amer. Intrn'l Group $46,750.00
Aetna, Inc. $45,250.00
----------------------------------------
TOTAL: $263,100.00

INDUSTRY CONTRIBUTORS:
Securities and Investment $842,150.00
Lawyers/Law Firms $685,604.00
Insurance $552,575.00
Pharmaceutical and
Health Products $506,313.00
Health Professionals $497,641.00
----------------------------------------
TOTAL: $3,084,283.00

GRAND TOTAL: $3,347,383.00

We need to understand that it is the special interests who are literally paying for the votes of our representatives through their "lobbying" which should be more accurately termed "bribery."

When Max Baucus convened a group of supposed interested and involved parties to discuss healthcare reform, certain individuals who backed a "public option" were deliberately excluded. Does this give you a hint about his real intent??? There can be no hope for anything like a "public option" (the very best option) when we have a congress full of two-faced people "on the take" like him.

The average American's voice doesn't have a chance in the face of this unfair system of paying for votes, which is exactly what lobbying is all about. I firmly believe that lobbying should be declared a criminal offense and labeled for what it really is: BRIBERY!!!

How could anyone possibly be so naive as to believe that this man could ever honestly represent the PEOPLE (which he took an oath to do) with over three million dollars from lobbyists dripping from his fingers as a "bribe" to do their bidding?????

The information provided in this posting is available as it relates to all of our congress personnel at www.opensecrets.org.

What would this nation look like if it was of, for and by the people? Now there's a fantasy for you! You are right on, nevergiveup. The game is rigged. Surprise, surprise! This
apple is rotten to the core. It should be cast onto the compost heap of history, to be recycled into a hopeful new seedling, nurished organically, free of the toxic chemicals of corporatists and banksters. They are like an infestation of aphids, sucking the life out of the people. What would be analagous to insecticidal soap? A tax/credit revolt? Staying healthy?

Six for one ?

They must be the pallbearers of democratic representation

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Somebody needs to relabel cans of insecticide as "Lobbyist Repellant"--Staff should then be instructed to don protective breathers and spray vigorously whenever a lobbyist crosses the threshold of their office door.

Betcha it wouldn't take more than a couple dousings before the lobbyists got the idea that they were not welcome.

Poet

This is an old story. The whoremongers wooing the whores! The only solution to putting an end to the most expensive whorehouse in the universe is outlaw lobbyists. Period! However, the trick is to get the whores (politicians) to vote against that which enriches them. That will be some trick! So we the people have no voice and it will be this way for a very long time. I suggest we all just sit back and enjoy the economic rape we have been experiencing and forget about universal healthcare and learn to get a kick out of the slaughter of Afgani, Pakistani and Iraqi women and children on TV. it is what Amerikkka does best. As for the whorehouse that is Washington DC? It's not going to change without a revolution.

"Americans for Stable Quality Care, a coalition supportive of the Obama administration health care plans and largely funded by the pharmaceutical industries, is spending $12 million over Congress' August recess to air an ad supporting Democrats' health care efforts. In addition to PhRMA, the coalition includes the American Medical Association, the Federation of American Hospitals, and the Service Employees International Union (SEIU)."

Hmmm.... Big Pharma fronts most of the money, while the doctors, hospital administrators, and unionized health care workers coalesce (at least temporarily) to support TV spots supporting something called "Democrats' health care efforts".

Last time I looked, the House and Senate versions of health care reform legislation were scattered all over the map. What was (maybe) inside was indecipherable. What was outside ("off the table") was what was clear.

No use of the public treasury to bargain lower drug prices from Big Pharma. No use, or at least narrow, highly ambiguous use, of a public health insurance option that would actually compete with existing nonprofit and for-profit private health insurance carriers. No Medicare for all. No transition away from an employment-linked, health insurance contract model for delivery of coverage. No mention of a single payer system.

Much as I agree with most of SEIU's progressive political agenda and PIRGIM's assessment of how the voice of the public is being drown out (that 70% of the population who favor a real national health care system with universal coverage), in my opinion what's different now is not the sheer amount of money sloshing around Washington.

What's different is that the money is all being spent on a vigorous, structured debate between the virtues of having far less than half a loaf, versus having no loaf at all.

Bill from Saginaw

There must be at least 60 (and more likely 6000) educated articulate unemployed and uninsured people in each congressional district who could be organized to lobby on behalf of the uninsured and underinsured. While they would not have a lot of "bribery" money to throw around they could be organizing to educate the electorate and their representatives.

We need health care equality. Congress and the people should have equal coverage. Why shouldn't congress people have only the same coverage that the grocery clerks, cab drivers, and hot spot waiters have. We access the same roads, schools, public colleges, just add to those hospitals, pharmacies and urgent care facilities.

Elmwood

Yup, Rep. Louise Slaughter, that's Democracy - er, correction, American Democracy:

We The People get meaningless 'town hall' pacifiers while the bankster's place-owning partners, Big Ins, Drug and Hospital, bribe as many Congresspeople and Senators as possible on both sides for insulting low amounts of money, thereby hedging their bets - either health care 'reform' is killed and they continue to obscenely profit on our health, or health care 'reform' is passed but with a guarantee obscene profits will still be enjoyed by all 'different interests.'

Vat a Democracy!

Rather than simply talking amongst ourselves, it seems possible to conduct internet “teach-ins,” about health care reform, a civil rights movement, the very most basic one, the right not to be left to die. “Teach-ins” have always been an important part of any social/protest movement, the point being to educate and persuade others to change their minds. We need to use the internet. There must be many sites where the same “town-hall” people, or like-minded people, people tending that direction or unsure, go to air their ravings -- and questions -- in comments. So far I have only been posting in response to an article on the healthcare struggle on Marketwatch – offering counter information, arguments, explanations and online resources. The majority of people posting are perhaps beyond enlightenment but it is important to remember that a great many people read comments for views and information and don’t post themselves. You can reach a lot of people, especially if you listen, keep it respectful and informative, and call people out when appropriate. It’s a public debate. And many of these people have never had anyone suggest to them an alternate idea, or the idea that they are being used, that they are acting against their own interests. In any case it’s important to think of ways to reach out to people and share information. We have a great mass communication tool right here under our fingertips.

But that means knowing your stuff and where you stand. That means being able to counter the lies and disinformation about universal health care but also confirming that the so far vague, inexplicable and complicated “Obamacare” is in fact a bad idea but not for the reason they think. “Obamacare” is a rip-off benefiting only Wall Street and the for-profit health care industry. The only workable and just solution is Medicare for all, a program everyone already knows and appreciates. Participating usefully in these online discussions perhaps also means being able to challenge their ethics (right to life?) and argue in favor of the moral as well as practical advantage of single-payer, more easily described as Medicare for all.

As for the “town-hall” meetings themselves, I am with Dave Lindorff – progressives should be disrupting these town-halls too:

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff08112009.html

So one humble suggestion is that you arm yourselves and spread out, locate discussions where you are in the minority (I pride myself on my very high negative rating amongst Marketwatch commenters), and conduct your teach-ins.

Why won't Kucinich, Sanders, or other progressive introduce a bill to take money out of politics, if only to bring the issue to the fore?

Trainer12: Number one, "don't mourn, organize. Number 2. Educate and hold teach-ins for the masses on healthcare, not health insurance. Number 3. Lobby your local Congressperson and US Senators in DC and at home in their offices during the recess, especially if they are brave and skilled enough to conduct a Town Hall Meeting. 4. Starting organizing and training for non-violent actions like the Baucus 13. We need more, larger, frequent and escalating actions, locally and in DC and in any location, especially at lobbyists, PR firms, pharmaceutical, for profit health insurance, American Hosptial Association State Affiliates. We need to put the spot light on the forces that be who are against any healthcare reform.
Number 5., Conduct house parties on healthcare with readings, showing DVD's such as "Sick Around the World", "Sicko", "Wendell Potter" on Bill Moyers Journal. Number 6. Organize and broaden the movement to all types of people. Number 7. Run people against all the "DINO'S", "Blue Dog Democrats" and Republicans who are against any reform what so ever. Number 8. Initiate or support single payer bills at the state level like in PA and CA. Number 9. Keep the momentum. Start with monthly, weekly and then daily actions.
Number 10. With each new person who we organize, make sure you give them a role and something to do. Sign a petition, write a letter to editor of the local newspaper, lobby, protest, call a legislator, fax a legislator, attend a rally, protest or participate in a civil disobedience action.

We should be laughing in their faces and demand to know why they want to get rid of what they have called a "free market"?

Then we should demand freer markets. FDA should lift their bans on the many natural substances that would compete successfully with pharmaceuticals. There are dozens, if not hundreds of these. Support the Access to Medical Treatment Act that would prevent state medical societies from removing the licenses af alternative practitioners by changing the standard for loss of license to ethical concerns and harm to patients. Allow anyone to have a Medical Savings Acccount. Why should you only get a tax break if you have health insurance?. And why in the world does the gov't prevent small businesses from forming groups so they can get group rates? Even if they could only afford a catastrophic insurance policy, it would be a plus.

No, it doesn't get directly to universal health care but can't you see that until you break the medical monopoly it won't happen? Anything we get will be worse and we will have these bloodsuckers on our backs forever, or at least until the country is so bankrupt that there is just nothing left. In the meantime, the above steps would be the death of the pharmaceutical industry as we know it and the shrinkage of insurance companies' influence. It would also result in a healthier population and vastly reduced medical care costs as natural medicine will win in a fair competition. Then universal coverage will be the natural consequence.

Regarding the 3,300 lobbyists working health care, don't forget the 32,000, about ten times more, that are working hard to screw you over in every other part of your life.

So the banks are too big to fail, the wars are too profitable to end, and the insurance lobby is too rich to allow health care policy to do anything except help them make more money.

No health care for the sick---not when the richest can get still richer.