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Technorati"They are proselytizing not on behalf of the Constitution of the United States . . . but rather on behalf of some sort of fanatical view of end times. And they are using our army to affect that." -Former Ambassador Joseph Wilson
Last August the watchdog group Military Religious Freedom Foundation foiled a Pentagon plan that would have allowed the shipment of "freedom packages" to soldiers and Marines in Iraq. The parcels were put together by the fundamentalist Christian ministry, Straight Up, and contained Bibles, proselytizing tracts in English and Arabic, and the apocalyptic "Left Behind" computer game, in which Christian Tribulation forces convert or kill infidels-nonbelievers, Muslims and Jews.
On May 1 the Senate approved the promotion of Brigadier General Robert L. Caslen Jr. to Major General. Currently the commandant of cadets at West Point, he will become the commander of the 25th Infantry Division. He is also president of the stridently fundamentalist Officer's Christian Fellowship, whose vision is a "spiritually transformed military, with ambassadors for Christ in uniform, empowered by the Holy Spirit."
General Caslen was promoted despite the Defense Department's recommended disciplinary action against him and several other senior military leaders because they had "improperly endorsed and participated with a nonfederal entity while in uniform" by participating in a promotional video for the Campus Crusade For Christ's Christian Embassy, an evangelical organization that ministers to Beltway politicians and sponsors weekly Bible studies at the Pentagon.
According to the DoD Inspector General's report, one of the generals involved "asserted that Christian Embassy was treated as an instrumentality of the Pentagon Chaplain's office for over 25 years, and had effectively become a 'quasi federal entity.'" Arguably, he believed his participation in the video was in the line of duty.
Considering both the Pentagon's evangelical proclivity and a 2006 Pew survey which found that of the major religious groups in America, evangelicals have the most negative views of Islam and Muslims, the U.S. sniper who was recently caught using the Quran for target practice in the Baghdad neighborhood of Radhwaniya might be excused for thinking the book was a legitimate target upon which to perfect his craft . . . excused for thinking he was acting in the line duty.
And is it any wonder that with evangelicals and fundamentalists at the very top of the military's officer corps -- to say nothing of their Commander in Chief -- that an enlisted Marine was passing out Christian "witnessing coins" inscribed in Arabic at a checkpoint in Fallujah? One side of the coin asked, "Where will you spend eternity?" An evangelical favorite, John 3:16, was on the flip side.
Sheik Adul-Rahman al-Zubaie, a tribal leader in Fallujah who was outraged by the Marine's proselytizing said, "This event did not happen by chance, but it was planned and done intentionally."
While the Marine's proselytizing is not the official policy of the predominately Christian force occupying the predominately Islamic Iraq, it was done "in the line of duty" with a wink and a nod from his chain of command. Think Abu Ghraib!
From Fort Jackson, the Army's largest basic training facility, where trainees are encouraged to attend Campus Crusade's weekly "God's Basic Training" programs, to the U.S. Air Force Academy where students are pressured to attend the Crusade's weekly "cru" (short for crusade) Bible study, American military personnel are, as Campus Crusade's Scot Blom gloats, "government paid missionaries" when they complete their training.
As the demands of fighting a perpetual war against "radical Islam" begins to strain both the military's resources and the country's resolve, the Pentagon has begun outsourcing larger chunks of the war to private contractors. Predictably, our "government paid missionaries" have become more expensive and much less controllable or accountable.
The Bush administration's favorite contractor, Blackwater, is the most powerful private army in the world. It commands thousands of mercenaries in Iraq and Afghanistan, has over a billion dollars in government contracts, and enjoys complete immunity from prosecution for its theater of operations' conduct.
Blackwater's founder, Erik Prince, a staunchly conservative Catholic, has also served on the board of directors of Christian Freedom International, a crusading missionary organization operating in the overwhelmingly Islamic countries of Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan and Iraq. Prince envisions an evangelical "end time" role for his warriors: "Everybody carries guns, just like Jeremiah rebuilding the temple in Israel -- a sword in one hand and a trowel in the other."
No one in the last decade has contributed more to end time, apocalyptic evangelism than John Hagee, a televangelist seen by millions of viewers weekly and pastor of the 19,000-member Cornerstone Church. Hagee preaches that in order to bring about the Second Coming of Christ and the Rapture of true believers, Islam first has to be destroyed.
In a 2006 interview with National Public Radio's Terry Gross, Hagee told her, "Those who live by the Quran have a scriptural mandate to kill Christians and Jews." He went on to claim that there are 200 million Muslims waiting for the chance to attack Israel and the United States. From his pulpit, Hagee makes it clear to his congregation and the radio and television audience what they can expect from American Muslims if such an attack ever took place: "While American Muslims live in America, 82 percent are not loyal to America and are not willing to fight and defend America."
In his book, "Jerusalem Countdown - A Warning to the World," Hagee warns that the war between Islam and the West "is a war that Islam cannot and must not win."
John Hagee is not just a mad evangelizing prophet. He is the mad evangelizing prophet who is courted by a war president, a hawkish presidential candidate and members of Congress from both parties. His Islamophobic bilge has trickled down from Capital Hill, through the labyrinthine corridors of the Pentagon, and into the chamber of a sniper's rifle and the hand of a Marine guarding a checkpoint in Fallujah.
Officers in the military are expected to lead by example. Enlisted personnel are expected to follow that example. If the recent incidents at Radhwaniya and Fallujah are not just the acts of renegades, then the chain of command seems to be working the way it was designed.
Robert Weitzel is a contributing editor to Media With a Conscience. His essays regularly appear in The Capital Times in Madison, WI. He can be contacted at: robertweitzel@mac.com
64 Comments so far
Show AllIran is about to become a Christian nation, probably against their will, in the very near future.
These missionaries in uniform try to make up for in effrontery what they lack in brains, knowledge, and even guts.
Were they given the advantages of WWII veterans we would all benefit. They are wise beyond their years for having seen the worst in humanity and are ripe for understanding the accumulated wisdom of the human race.
This is the last thing that neocon policy makers want. Once she understands you won't fool her again.
The ruling class cannot continue without the continued ignorance of average voter.
holmie2, I feel sorry for you because you are so deluded. May Allah have mercy upon your soul. Allahu Akhbar.
holmie - Thanks for the homily.
Does that mean I can get somebody else to pay my parking ticket? And which brand of Christianity exactly do you have in mind? Everyone distorts Scriptures; the Scriptures themselves are distortions.
Well, at least, you're hanging out in the NT. I suppose that's progress. Good luck with that. Peace.
I must defend and warn about this Jesus who many have slandered and flippantly talked about on this board. Despite your hatred, this Jesus created, sustains, and loves you to the point of proving His love for you by laying down his life and suffering at the hands of fallen men. Why did he have to go to the cross? Because God the father laid down laws that men potentally had the ability to follow and to show our love for Him. We rejected His laws and broke them. God, who is justice personified as well as love, had to fulfill the penalty of the law which was and is death(not only physical, but biblical death also means seperation from God). Before Christ, believers sacraficed animals for their lawbreaking as a temporary satisfaction of the penalty of sin(breaking Gods law). But then according to His wisdom and timing He sent His only begotten son(who is the perfect reprentative of the Father) to die once and for all. He took the wages of our sins upon Himself(who knew no sin) and payed the price in our place for our sins. So now whoever puts their faith in what our Lord had done shall be given the gift of forgiveness and eternal life. When one truly puts his faith in Jesus their comes a moment in time when one is Born again, or born of the Spirit. At that moment and forever you are a new creature and are no longer seperated from your heavenly Father. Do not be like these men---Jude 1:10
"Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them." OR ---2 Peter 3:16
"He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction." If you choose not to believe and put your faith in idols(money,intellect,fallen men,fame,self rightousness, etc...) it is better for you to just say, "I don't understand Christianity". I dare you to find out what Christianity is truly about for yourself. Peace and God Bless!!
Jesus, the bleeding heart liberal hippie, was the antithesis of the military.
"Imagine no religion."
Yes, then people would be left to fight over racism, nationalism...a brand new "ism." Humans are humans and we are contentious creatures. To say religion is the CAUSE is overly simplistic. If "no religion" is ideal, why did the communists kills millions?
If there was only a magic wand that could put all the world's religious nut bags in one place where they could fight their battles to their heart's content while the rest of the planet laughed. Unfortunately, the nut bags want to drag the rest of the world along with them to their own version of Ragnarok, The Rapture, etc.
Wonderful posts here. And while it's fun to talk about the pros and cons of religion, I don't think any of it will do any good.
What we need to do is work on eliminating the NEED for religion. When the day comes that technology allows us to provide food, shelter, and education for all, religion will fizzle away just like astrology.
prophet of peace June 10th, 2008 5:33 am:
"If people could understand that western organised religions are just a tool of the ruling elite to subdue the masses and keep them under control."
Agreed.
"The creator being is one of love, the so-called god of the western christian religions is not a god of love but a demon who demands worship, subservience and sacrifice."
The WAR GOD of Judaism, YAHWEH is the demon god. Christ preached peace and love and that God is Love. Having said that I am agnostic.
"Those who think that they are killing for god are seriously brainwashed and have been horribly misled as the killing of another is wrong, obscenely wrong and will taint their soul."
THOU SHALT NOT KILL. Period. Got it?
" ... and any god who asks for the killing of another is not a good god but a perverse and sick demon."
Again, this is the Judaic war god Yahweh.
"We have been and are still being lied to by those who control society and many are going along with it and it seems incredible that people can be so ignorant to not see what is going on."
Maybe not ignorant. Maybe in denial. It seems so unbelievable to so many that our "leaders" are so horribly evil, in spite of historical precedent domestically -- union organizers murdered, veterans demand pensions murdered, political opponents murdered. It goes on and on, and people refuse to acknowledge our evil regime.
If we don't wake up soon and realise that we are all one, not just humanity but one with all there is then soon the way things are going we won't have any world left to live with. I for one hope that we do wake up and can bring an end to the rule of the darkness who are the ruling elite and bring true peace to the world through love, equality and respect for all.
You speak TRUTH.
-- Kent Shaw
Religion and war go hand in hand. Now we are conducting modern day crusades to bring Christianity to the hapless heathen Muslims. They must certainly appreciate our efforts. About as much as we would appreciate an invasion by a few million militant Islamic troops on our shores attempting to bring us freedom through Islam.
Imagine no religion.
st.john -
"Involution is the Origin of Spirit's idea into the Subjective Mind or Law of creation."
All mind is subjective, and it's human, as far as we know - animals and plants may have "mind", but we haven't yet bothered to find out
There is no Law of Creation. That is religion, and mainly biblical. There are however, well-developed Laws of Physics, Chemistry, etc. It is one of our duties as human beings to discover those and live happily within them. Any religion that rejects science is bunk.
Yes, I'm a trouble-maker. but I'm still part of the "One", whatever you perceive that to be. Interesting that your first move is to cut me out from your herd.
With all due respect, your construction will topple like a New York crane at the first real challenge.
All that said, I hope you continue your task as a Seeker. Peace.
Mohandas Gandhi: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
I love this quote, filled with wisdom and clarity. Of course, it does not speak of ALL Christians, but identifies a crucial disparity between what people profess to believe and how they behave in expressing their "true beliefs".
I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john
"christian extremists fighting muslim extremists."
Wrong. Iraq was not filled with "extremists" before the US came there. It was a country ruled by a SECULAR dictator. I have many friends in Iraq, and that country had a feminist movement decades ago, little sectarian strife, and very few extremists. There had NEVER been a suicide bombing in Iraq. The Christian fundies CAUSED Muslim extremism in Iraq.
Good morning, all.
SHAWN: I've been around! Just less time now that I am co-raising an amazing grandson. John Dean's book in my view is a MUST read... because it so powerfully explains the mindset of all those that seem "unteachable" from a progressive standpoint.
ST. JOHN: Wise words, particularly the ideal of teaching BY example. (It is a slower process than the Pavlovian reward-punishment paradigm utilized by orthodox institutions.)
STEPHEN V. RILEY: I find your posts intelligent, too. Thank you for the compliment. I look for common elements in varied religions, and have participated in Bahai rituals, Hindu rituals, Buddhist rituals, and I very much relate to the Unity School of Christianity as per its more metaphysical interpretations of Biblical scripture. The story of the heavens and the basic "twelve-fold" design makes the most sense to me; however, I don't think one belief system is necessarily mutually exclusive to others. For me, Truth consists of finding the common elements found in them all. That the Creative force of the great Infinite = love, is bottom line; and yet suffering is also very real. Hence the Shiva-Vishnu: creation coupled with destruction, as per the cycles of not only nature but of politics, economics and the vicissitudes of our own lives is an astute perception given experience on this polarity planet.
WHAT FOOLS: I had no idea you understood the progression of the Ages. Thanks for bringing it up. I have elaborated on this abstract concept more than once in this forum.
Has Hagee done any military service? Could it be that like the Other Bad Mannered Fat Boy he just talks a good fight?
Is God too helpless to speak for himself; or is he still not there. It seems amazing that an omnipotent creature needs a mouthpiece like the lowlifes we see preaching as if they had a direct conversation with God every morning.
When Jesus admonished his followers "not to throw pearls to swine," he meant don't waste time preaching to the unreceptive.
To my knowledge he never instructed his followers to only preach to Jews. All were beckoned into his Kingdom, I believe.
Guy was pretty open-minded actually.
If people could understand that western organised religions are just a tool of the ruling elite to subdue the masses and keep them under control.
The creator being is one of love, the so-called god of the western christian religions is not a god of love but a demon who demands worship, subservience and sacrifice.
Those who think that they are killing for god are seriously brainwashed and have been horribly misled as the killing of another is wrong, obscenely wrong and will taint their soul.
We are all one and what we do to others we ultimately do to ourselves - the darkness know this and have infiltrated all aspects of society to lead us on a downward spiral. The ruling elite who control our societies across the world have been using religion, along with the political system, media and the financial world to divide us as it is easier to control us when we are divided, this way they maintain there control and wage wars which are akin to the Aztec blood sacrifices - and any god who asks for the killing of another is not a good god but a perverse and sick demon.
Too many people are 'asleep' and have fallen under the spell of the darkness and actually believe that the 'religion' they follow is right and any actions, even the killing of others, is justifiable as 'god' decreed it to be justified.
We have been and are still being lied to by those who control society and many are going along with it and it seems incredible that people can be so ignorant to not see what is going on.
If we don't wake up soon and realise that we are all one, not just humanity but one with all there is then soon the way things are going we won't have any world left to live with. I for one hope that we do wake up and can bring an end to the rule of the darkness who are the ruling elite and bring true peace to the world through love, equality and respect for all.
Namaste.
God must have a sense of humour. I am convinced she does.
America, the most religious of all developed nations is full of people spouting Jesus mantras (by the way he taught acceptance and love) on one hand and war, mayhem, violence and murder on the other. Are Americans, on average, really so simple minded that they do not see the irony let alone the complete contradiction of all for which Jesus ever stood? America's christianity has nothing to do with Jesus and everything to do with backward, barbaric, vengeful Biblical Christianity. God help us at the hands of the crazies who are running the most heavily militarised nation in the world.
@medusa June 9th, 2008 10:16 pm
"st.john - if involution precedes evolution and involution is the idea, then who or what is having the idea? Sounds like "[un]intelligent design" to me."
Involution is the Origin of Spirit's idea into the Subjective Mind or Law of creation. I don't have a quick, short response to your question. If you are genuinely interested in an answer, you may research it in The Science of Mind. The answers to such questions, while simple, require the commitment of the seeker to make a radical inquiry into Truth. From your question, I feel that you may be just discounting what I have offered in an authentic attempt to guide people to a body of information that does offer rationally-based study of the widest possible inquiry. The New Thought/Anient Wisdom "movement" includes many similar disciplines which are very open to including all existing spiritual paths. What this branch of spiritual inquiry is most interested in is elevating consciousness to the recognition that we are all One, regardless of our surface differences, and the Power that created us is available for us to use in creating a world that works for everyone. The most effective means of "converting" someone to you way of life is to demonstrate in your life how your way of thinking/living/believing is more desirable than theirs. Coersion through force or manipulation may result in short-term change, but over time the converted will rebel and any gains will be lost.
I am not "trying" to convert anyone to my way of thinking/living. I am offering a way that has worked for me and millions of others to the degree they were willing to practice the tools provided.
I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john
~ GALEN ~ ( at 8:54pm ) You've reminded me of my youth, with your parody of
____ WANTED!
____ Joshua benJusef
While I was just getting my own selective service "draft" card, and awaiting the lottery selection by date of birth, my activist Mom had been preparing a political statement twist for our home's front door Xmas wreath.
Much like most family's decoration, except it also had a present nicely wrapped upon it, with a simple message:
____ " Happy Birthday JESUS
____ Your number is 25 "
For those uncluttered by memories those Viet Nam years ( c. 1972 ), or not so quick on the subtle, my Mom was referring to the fact that even Jesus would have had to go to that war, if "his number came up" so to say.
Namaste
So many good posts by Souxrose, St John, and many others. The trouble is when it concerns religious matters, too many people do not bother to think, but just BELIEVE what someone they trust has put forth as truth.
Politics works the same for many, they have always voted for a certain party, and brag about voting a straight ticket. So much for any common sense and examining the issues and behaviour of anyone.
Now we have a mixing of religion and government which is causing a noxious stew that prevents many from any serious thought about what our country is really doing, which is leading us back to the dark ages.
Siouxrose, thanks for your usual profound wisdom. You are the one poster I always look for. Thanks for some excellent points by by StJohn, RobRoy, Sparkplug, kayacker, deepa, and TheLorax.
Many CD readers would be very surprised and impressed with the "revolutionary" Christian movements taking place in the U.S. today. These people of faith have discovered the God of total love, the God of peace, the God of radical forgiveness, the God of unlimited compassion, and the God of non-violence RATHER THAN the redemptive God of damnation, redemptive war and redemptive violence. These "new" people of faith have come to know the true mind of Christ.
Included in these movements is mainstream Protestantism with the Rev. Jim Wallis of the Call to Renewal movement and Sojourners magazine; the JustFaith movement within the Catholic faith; and the religiously inclusive movement founded by Rabbi Michael Lerner of the Tikkun community called the Network for Spiritual Progressives.
Contrary to the fundameentalist control freaks, great things are happening with religion in America and it is all in communion with an emerging higher global consciousness, bringing about a just, sustainable and compassionate world. It is about bringing the Kingdom of God here on Earth
These people of faith recognize the evil in the world is not the sins of the flesh but the sins of oppressive institutional religion and the sins of structural injustice emanating" from the unjust power of multinational corporations and the rigged "fair" trade policies that favor only the rich while oppressing the poor.
The new Christian spirituality is the spirituality of liberation. True Christain America has come to understand that you cannot have a discussion of Islamic terrorism without a discussion of American Empire.
Souixrose: Hey, it's been a long time! How have you been doing?
I noticed that you referred to John Dean's book "Conservativs without a Conscience." This is an excellent book to be sure, and if you have noticed, Mr. Dean makes frequent reference to a Canadian psychologist by the name of Bob Altemeyer. Mr. Altemeyer has done a lot of esearch on conservatives and Right Wing Authoritarians. He has a free online book entited "The Authoritarians" which may be found at http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/. I suggest you read this book as it has a lot of information on what motivates these "people."
I blame all this trouble on Zarathustra who started the idea of an eternal struggle between 'good' and 'evil.' This bashing of the Goddess began before Gilgamesh but it was that band of Arab goatherds from out of the Arabian desert that made a theology out of it after Taurus and at the dawn of Aries. The messager of Pisces has been misquoted and ignored in favor of egocentric greed. Now we are in Aquaries already and still spilling blood and raping Mother Earth. I'm starting to think that nothing of any value will ever come out of the Levant or that cruel, avaricious patch of scafflaws in the Eastern Mediterranean.
It is a sad amusement that the broken telephone version of Christianity that the Americans are trying to spread in the middle east will not be very well received by the people who still speak Aramaic (Jesus' mother tongue) and the militarized empire version of the bible will be far more commonly available than the earlier less lost in the translation they already study from.
By the way "sell your cloak and buy a sword " is only an idiomatic expression meaning to brace yourself for rougher times to come, and when one of the apostles says he has access to a couple jesus answers thats enough like he is saying it to someone who missed the point.
The question seems to be, "What does Christianity have to do with Jesus?" Very little, it seems. Conservative Christians passionately believe in Jesus, but they don't believe Jesus. Their brand of Christianity has as much to do with Christ as the Navigator does with Abraham Lincoln.
Although the strident voices get heard more than the quiet acts of people of conscience, there are millions of Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and, yes, atheists who share the vision of love, tolerance, compassion, peace and social justice enunciated by that radical, iconoclastic, left-wing, homeless rabbi nearly 2000 years ago.
The true conflict is not between one religion and another, but between the majority of the world's citizens who want to live in a peaceful, just world and the minority, drawn from all lands and creeds, who worship immense power, wealth and carnage.
As Jesus denounced the religious hypocrites of his day, the author of this article and the above comments have done likewise.
st.john - if involution precedes evolution and involution is the idea, then who or what is having the idea? Sounds like "[un]intelligent design" to me.
"spiritually transformed military, with ambassadors for Christ in uniform, empowered by the Holy Spirit."
This would be wonderful! Soldiers without weapons, loving their enemies,doing good to all, free of greed, and the lust for power over others, practicing non-violence as Jesus taught, etc.
Unfortunately, "Christianity" has been co-opted by hypocrites, wolves in sheep's clothing who preach war and spread violence. Bush and his ilk are something, but they are not followers of Jesus.
This will end as have all the other failed crusades....
Jesus did not instruct his apostles to convert 'everyone' to 'Christianity'. Actually, and a reading of the New Testament will confirm this, Jesus told his apostles not to preach to anyone except other Jews. It was not until after Jesus had died that the first gentile was converted when Peter recieved a vision assuring him that it was acceptable. Jesus was Jewish and practiced the Jewish religion. The apostles were Jewish. The 'Last Supper' was a Jewish celebration required by Jewish Law. Jesus died a Jew and while he was alive he never established a religion called Christianity to oppose the Jewish religion. The Christian religion that we know today evolved over a period of hundreds of years from the time of Jesus death and in fact is still evolving. Whether or not Jesus intended to establish such a religion is anyone's guess.
Bfranky, thanks for the book idea! It has been added to my list. I love anything satire.
From the alternative universe next door:
WANTED!
Joshua benJusef
Suspect is described as Middle Eastern, long hair, bearded, with blue or brown eyes. Frequently seen wearing tribal clothing indigenous to the Arabian peninsula.
Jeshua benJusef is a self declared prophet who's followers murder doctors, bomb and burn medical clinics, and have been responsible for multiple acts of mass homicide.
Suspect's organization has amassed millions of dollars in cash, artwork and real estate worldwide. Many politicians and government employees in nations worldwide profess open devotion to his cause, which is the overthrow of the legal government to be replaced by a theocracy based on his writings.
Christian fundamentalism is the modern equivalent of the Jewsish religious leaders of Jesus' time.
Jesus condemned those leaders in unequivocal terms as I am certain he condemns those who use his name to spread hatred and intolerance. How can I make that statement? My authority if the New Testament of the Bible.
There is no doubting what Jesus meant when he said 'love your enemies' - 'blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God'
The fundamentalists in the present US administration are operating under the guidance of the Old Testament which is not surprising as many of their colleagues are Zionists.
Jesus words to the Pharisees could equally apply to this current unholy alliance of fundamentalists and Zionists - 'Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell?
Bush a Christian? Hardly, his actions are the antithesis of true Christianity.
Sparkplug got me giggling on Jesus and dad thing.
CHRIST to JESUS
Christ is the eternal soul that manifested at that particular historical time to bring a message to the Hebrews of that time. Jesus, of course, was the human manifestation of Christ and delivered the message but the Hebrews did not take his words to heart and so Jesus brought the message to the rest of the known world surrounding the middle east at that time.
The message, of course, revolved around the Eternal God and father of, not just, the Hebrews but of all humanity. The fact of the Wise Men confirms that his birth was special for the world. Yet, he did not declare his own divinity but deferred to God the Father. A virgin birth is not that difficult as we know today and to put restrictions on God is presumptuous at best. That applies to the death and resurrection also. There can be no Christ and the Jesus of the Da Vinci code.
The message is the most important of what and who Jesus was and this is what Christmas should be about. Love God with all your heart and soul and your neighbor as your self. He said that was always the law even before his time. The rest of the writings were there because he knew the human heart. Why did he hang out with sinners and plain folk and not the religious leaders? The messenger and the message have put them out of business.
Celebrate or no; Christmas or any other form. There are many paths to the same place: God and no one has a lock on the right path. Jesus knew this and traveled and talked to many peoples. This is where the many mansions comes in. As for him saying that the poor would always be with us; the only reason is because of human avarice. Sound familiar?
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year with love to all.
Sandy and Tony 12/22/05
Shankari, A literalist will try to convert you but others who do not believe every word in the bible as absolute truth will not.
I've known some pretty mean and harsh Christians. I thought religious people were supposed to be loving, kindly, and forgiving. I really don't think it's a very helpful religion as far as improving a person's conduct.
If Christianity is so wonderful, then it doesn't need people running around the globe trying to force people to convert to their religion. Is it because they want the 10% of people's income for tithes? What is it?
Can you show me in the supposed words of Jesus how he taught intolerance??
Christianity is a problem for one main reason. The religion instructs its adherents to convert other people. In other words, it is intolerant of other's beliefs. As a result Christianity spends quite a bit of time running around the world telling everyone else they are wrong. People get tired of it. Christians used to accompany this by murdering anyone who did not believe. Non-Christians are second-rate idiots who deserve to be slaughtered and tortured. We always excuse Jesus and say that he taught Peace. He also taught intolerance. At some point the rest of us have to say that enough is enough. You can believe what you want, but leave the rest of us alone.
Lorax: You insist on saying "Christians and Catholics." Catholics ARE Christians. As are Quakers, Orthodox, Anglicans, Presbyterians and so on.
It makes you seem very ignorant about Christianity.
The people that killed the Iraqis and are occupying their land now want these oppressed people to convert to their religion. Talk about nervy. Sounds like what the imperialists did to the Native-American tribes. Some things never change.
My message to Bush is this: Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you're an asshole.
Jesus is cool but his dad is a bit of a prick.
"Religulous"
Opens October 3rd. Though no Maher fan here, the trailer suggests he covers all the bases.
Whatever happened to the simple "mind your own business?" Wanna believe a frog is God, knock yourself out, but stop trying to convert everyone to frogism.
... ribit... ribit... ribit...
ST. John: You offer a great deal to this forum, and I salute the SPIRIT in you. Namaste!
THE LORAX: You raise the key issue our Founders recognized coming so directly out of Europe's centuries-long tradition of killing/slaughtering "heretics." THIS nation was devised (as per its government) with a separation of church and state for very very important reasons, and yes, the reasons are not only being lost, they are being INVERTED. That the military is being Christianized is beyond the pale, it is such a living symbolic embodiment of an anti-Christ... so fueled with the false faith that in killing other/infidel some kind of religious glory can result is a belief most of us thought was vanquished with modernity and the teaching of history!
Yes, Lorax, the right to our own choices, a fundament of God-given free will would be eviscerated (as history has countless previous examples) by those who purport to translate "god's" will for us. These are the authoritarians that John Dean defines so aptly in his important book, "Conservatives without Conscience." And the very belief in authority to this extreme is itself the antithesis of what a free, independent, democratic/representative society requires. This probably explains why so much of the public is nonchalant as its long-won liberties are being erased, one by one, with nary a blinking of eyes or a gnashing of teeth. Yet!
TheLorax; You have made a black and white assertion much the same as the moronic evangelical Christians would. The word "God" as used by the Doukhobors is interpreted to mean "the power of love, the power of life, which is the source of all that exists" Many Christians do not believe that God is some guy in the sky that might send us all to hell one one day. The literalists I believe could very well be the plague but all christians are NOT like the wooden-headed literalists preaching damnation and hate.
DEEPA: I don't think Bush has a soul, but if he did, I wonder what he'd make of the Biblical teaching to get the board away from one's own eyes before casting blame on other? He has been personally involved with such high levels of slaughter, and yet he sees the murderer on skid row as a lesser sort than himself. Amazing dis-grace.
ACO: There are some great works on the part of some spiritually adept Christians to be sure, but what the institutional church has done and IS doing (at least insofar as the fundamentalist/evangelical sects, which have congregations in the MILLIONS!) too often endorses massive slaughter. IF only more so-called Christians FOLLOWED The TRUE teachings of Christ this world would be a better place.
The gap reminds me of something a construction worker once related to me--that geniuses write the blueprints (God-higher teachers), but everyday fools have to translate them into actual buildings. A lot gets lost in translation! How many historical events link the church with one massacre or another? How about the bloody conversion of the Indigenous? How about the burning of women? Not too many stood up against the Holocaust, either. And how about the Inquisition? or the lynching of Blacks out back AFTER the local (church) picnic? ORGANIZED religion has too often departed from the teachigns of its Masters and most of religious institutions have a lot of blood on their hands, a LOT to answer for!
ACO says "Just FYI–your bigotry and progressive conformity is part of the problem in this intolerant world. One can only hope you spend your days posting conformist trash while the Catholic Workers, Quakers, Mennonites, and other Christians who are part of "the plague" play the role of peacemaker…like Jesus taught…"
I am against anyone that attacks freedom in this country. Christians head that list because they are anti-freedom, as are Catholics. I am also against anyone that tells a Christian or Catholic that they can't worship the way they want to. I support a FREE nation. Freedom is sacred. It must be protected against all that would try to take it. It has been paid for by the blood of both the conquerors and the conquered.
If I was bigoted against Christians or Catholics I would want them driven out of the country. That is not the case. I just want them to mind their own business and stop trying to tell everyone else how to live. The 'plague' I'm talking about is the assault on American freedom by the Religious Right. Their ultimate goal is the establishment of a state religion, theocracy, and dictatorship. If you can explain how that is not an affront to freedom in this country, please do so.
This is almost enough to make me despair. How can you argue with people who possess the ultimate truth? How can you hope to change their minds? And how many American citizens possess this ultimate truth, and the tunnel vision that goes with it?
Thanks, Siouxrose. You are a voice of reason/truth in a world seemingly populated by the ignorant and dysfunctional. That may sound like a judgment; I mean it as an observation of discernment. In The Science of Mind, Holmes writes: "Evolution is a principle which, though invisible, finds manifestation in every form of life. It is the logical or necessary outcome of Universal Intelligence of Spirit; but evolution is an effect of Intelligence and not its cause. Evolution can only follow involution. Involution is the idea, while evolution is the unfoldment of the idea. INVOLUTION PRECEDES EVOLUTION AND EVOLUTION FOLLOWS WITH MECHANICAL PRECISION, PROPELLED BY AN IMMUTABLE LAW(CAPS in the original text)...the Law of Cause and Effect." I have read many spiritual texts, the writings of spiritual seekers both modern and ancient, and keep coming back to Holmes.
We are the Ones we have been waiting for (Obama used this term, but it did not originate with him). It is up to us to be the change we wish to see in the world.
I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john
WOW--thanks TheLorax for being so open with your bigotry and ignorance. For a second I thought I was reading a post on Human Events... Thankfully your post was short because I bet you could whine on for hours and hours about "the plague" that are Christians and Catholics.
Just FYI--your bigotry and progressive conformity is part of the problem in this intolerant world. One can only hope you spend your days posting conformist trash while the Catholic Workers, Quakers, Mennonites, and other Christians who are part of "the plague" play the role of peacemaker...like Jesus taught...
Imperialism and Christian religion are two sides of a coin. A Christian theology that affirms the salvific power of violence results in denigration of people, who are not part of the "saved community", permitting discrimination and ultimately violence. This reality is reflected in the violent history of the institutional church marked by Inquisition, Crusades, Slave Trade, Segregation and support to imperialism/Colonialism, to name a few. The collaboration of the church and the imperial power in violence against native peoples around the world is vividly illustrated by David Stannard: "At the dawn of the fifteenth century, Spanish conquistadors and priests presented the Indians they encountered with a choice: either give up your religion and culture and land and independence, swearing allegiance 'as vassals' to the Catholic Church and the Spanish Crown, or suffer 'all the mischief and damage' that the European invaders choose to inflict upon you." This is also very much evident in the violent history of the US.
The English Puritan revolution was justified repeatedly by biblical analogies drawn from the OT. Using a rather dubious interpretation of the book of Daniel, the revolutionaries saw themselves as "the Saints of the Most High," commissioned to execute judgment on kings and nobles. Oliver Cromwell drew a parallel between his revolution and the exodus and proceeded to treat the Catholics of Ireland as the Canaanites. He even declared that "there are great occasions in which some men are called to great services in the doing of which they are excused from the common rule of morality," as were the heroes of the OT. The Puritans of New England applied the biblical texts about the conquest to their own situation, casting the Native American tribes in the role of the Canaanites and Amalekites. In 1689, Cotton Mather urged the colonists to go forth against "Amalek annoying this Israel in the wilderness." A few years later, one Herbert Gibbs gave thanks for "the mercies of God in extirpating the enemies of Israel in Canaan." Similar rhetoric persisted in American Puritanism through the eighteenth century, and indeed biblical analogies have continued to play a part in American political rhetoric down to the present.
The presidents of the US in their "colonizing crusade" invoked the "Christian God". President McKinley said, "We're going into the Philippines to civilize and Christianize the Filipinos." He said: "I went down on my knees and prayed to Almighty God for light and guidance more than one night. And one night late it came to me: 1) That we could not give them [the Philippines] back to Spain — that would be cowardly and dishonorable; 2) that we could not turn them over to France and Germany — our commercial rivals in the Orient — that would be bad business and discreditable; 3) that we could not leave them to themselves — they were unfit for self-government — and they would soon have anarchy and misrule over there worse than Spain's was; and 4) that there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all, and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them, and by God's grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow-men for whom Christ also died. And then I went to bed, and went to sleep, and slept soundly, and the next morning I sent for the ... War Department map-maker, and I told him to put the Philippines on the map of the United States (pointing to a large wall map), and there they are, and there they will stay while I am President!"
Until 1933, 120,000 U.S. troops occupied the Philippines. "Pacifying" those "heathens" took longer than McKinley thought and brought out the brute in the soul of U.S. Christian soldiers. A frustrated U.S. general even ordered troops to kill every Philippine male over age ten. Fortunately, that order was not carried out, but U.S. troops did slay up to 200,000 Philippine men and women in three years, until overwhelming superiority in weapons and sheer ruthlessness overcame local resistance forces. Two thousand U.S. "Christian crusaders" died, as well. This bloody war on the Philippines lasted seven years, which involved massacres and the extermination of populations. The US had "civilized" and "Christianized" the Filipinos and established its control.
One critical citizen satirized McKinley's war: "G is for guns/ That McKinley has sent/ To teach Filipinos/ What Jesus Christ meant."
U.S. President William McKinley's words should echo with President Bush. Bush has confessed that he talks to God and hears His words. Like McKinley, Bush understands that the stars and stripes stand for inseparable U.S. commercial interests and pious purposes. The Christian zealots of the time praised McKinley's will in overcoming Satan (Phililippinos) with military force. Now the descendents of these zealots that counseled McKinley, win court battles to validate creationism and push Armageddon and Rapture as themes of U.S. Middle East policy. Few days after 9/11 President Bush called his war on terrorism as "This crusade." Here is the deeper significance of Bush's reference to the Crusades: violence was established as the perfectly appropriate Christian response to 9/11. George W. Bush is a Christian for whom this particular theology lives. While he identified Jesus as his favorite "political philosopher" when running for President in 2000, the Jesus of this Christian zealot President is not the "turn the other cheek" one. Bush's savior is the Jesus whose cross is wielded as a sword. George W. Bush, having cheerfully accepted responsibility for the executions of 152 death-row inmates in Texas, had already shown himself to be entirely at home with divinely sanctioned violence, while the majority of the US public is lustily cheering and praising at the WONDERS THEIR BLOOD-THIRSTY GOD IS DOING IN IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, SOMALIA, DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO, LEBANON, PALESTINE, and looking forward to THESE WONDERFUL DEEDS OF THEIR GOD IN IRAN.
How 'bout some popcorn, beer and porn in them packages.
ST JOHN: Wonderful post, I am aware of the resource you speak of.
Here on CD we often pose reasons why our not-so-elected "leaders" ought be impeached. A similar drive should be directed at the so-called religious leaders who DARE to endorse policies of DESTRUCTION, agendas based on hate, violent protocols intending to further divide and conquer what's left of the HUMAN family, a tree of planned and diverse branches.
When we read about history as younger souls, we had the benefit of context and objectivity and it was so easy to see the wrongness of a great many agendas. Now with "history in the making" we (most of us in this forum have the necessary objectivity to see through current events) it is stark raving MAD that persons who believe they are following the will of THE TEACHER OF PEACE instead use his name as a reason to MURDER those of other religious affiliations. THAT the religious leaders stand by and allow this, in cases ENCOURAGE this is the equivalent of treason to spiritual authority.
When people have been brainwashed/hypnotized/programmed/conditioned to believe religion ('god') is granting them a license, in the case of our military along with that of Blackwater, it IS a license to kill... they cannot reason, they are beyond reason. The one thing (apart from conscience) that makes it impossible for healthy people to kill is their capacity to reason. When religion disables conscience and reasoning and calls for killing the religion is a diabolical blasphemy.
Those of us who see through this debacle have to wonder at the convergence of those conditions that would bring this mass psychosis about. I have brought this point up many times... the conditioning of the population to see God as a punitive MALE strict father figure has been at the CORE of why these beliefs do not come under scrutiny by enough individuals. The economics of our times, the end of oil, the mismanaged leadership of the nation that's brought so many mundane problems into focus, have led so many to despair. Many want "an end to it all," and this may explain their fascination with End Times. To be told (and indeed believe) that the God of Creation is now calling for DESTRUCTION is an inversion of the Holy Will... and tragically enough people seem to accept this to MAKE IT POTENTIALLY so.
With media in the hands of those who are pro-war, and war being fomented by those who use religion (even if their true motives are fiscal & greed-based), the way to get the Truth that would set them free into enough minds & hearts is a most daunting task. Some times it doesn't seem possible to me that Darkness has co-opted the Light to the degree it has... there will always be sheep, always be persons without the intellectual tools for true discernment; but when the "leaders" use such persons for their own dark bidding, that is a sin against ALL.
It's hard not to get started on Christians. I always overplay my hand and lose credibility because they upset me so much.
I agree with Mordechai though. Christians and Catholics are the true enemies of America and global freedom. They are a plague.
I was raised in a right-wing Bible Belt family in Texas and I can tell you that many Christians will go out of their way to assure you that Jesus was not peaceful, that he was bellicose and war-like. This is partly because, since they consider Jesus and God the same thing, they believe the Old Testament God of smitings and plagues is also Jesus. And there are tons of these kinds of people in the US military, which is partly why I can't quite bring myself to "support the troops" without knowing more about who's being referred to.
The one thing that would make an overthrow of constitutional rule in this country possible, whether by Bush/Cheney or anyone else, is the backing they would get from this considerably large element of Christian fanatics in the military. It's not paranoia. Trained as both true believers and killers, they would not stop at anything in order to get rid of whom they consider to be "their" America's enemies. They lurk over us all like the Sword of Damocles and all it would take is a single incident, even a trivial one, to have them take down the rule of law and kill us all.
For all of you who are mystified by the dogma of the Christian Right(eous), and many other more progressive religious belief systems, I have a resource that addresses most of(I won't say all, because that is not known for sure)the religious, scientific and political issues that are raised here and elsewhere on many progressive sights. The Science of Mind by Ernest Holmes, a 20th Century writer, teacher, lecturer and, some say, Mystic, is a non-denominational exploration of spiritual teachings from almost all recognized traditions, East, West, North and South. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Buddhaism, Hinduism and almost any other you may think of. Dr. Holmes was an American from New England whose insatiable curiosity and questioning of all traditions led him to write this book, and then continue to explore its premises until his passing in 1960. It recognizes the validity of science as well as religion, philosophy and phychology. It even addresses the paradox of Intelligent Design and Evolution as co-equals in explaining the origin of life as we know it. If you are willing to explore this resource, you may be pleasantly surprised to discover that there is a rational, scientific approach to the quandary of religion versus science and politics.
I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john
Actually what these evangelicals don't get is that Muslims believe in Jesus and the Virgin Mary. They just don't believe Jesus was the son of God. Muslims view Jesus as an honored prophet and humanbeing. Muslims call Jesus, Isa peace be upon him and Mary, Mariam.
Regadless the actions of these evangelicals is sickening.
Just what Iraq needs ...more religion!
A hilarious satire about the Moral Majority and the extremists is "The Department of Homeland Decency: Decency Rules and Regulations Manual" just out from Crown Press/Three Rivers Press. The Department's motto: "You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide. You have nothing to hide if you have nothing to fear. So fear nothing and you need not hide. Hide nothing and you need not fear." It's available in bookstores everywhere.
To bad our own US citizens will not see much wrong with this picture.
"Sure I mean, who doesn't need Jesus" they will say.
Disturbing times we live in. When we bounce around from place to place trying to sell a "Story" to other nations. And kill all those who don't believe. It's funny to me that even Christians don't see how their religion is as backwards as backwards could be.
If you don't believe in my friend in the sky and his super cool home in the sky. Then you are not worthy.
All these teaching of all this love that Jesus spread when King James really doesn't have a lot of love in it. Mostly destruction and pain and chaos.
But that's what they way to happen. Bring good ol'Jesus back to us as fast as we can.
It's all pretty silly to me.
And the people that are willing to separate all those in the world from there special friends are even worse.
Jesus loves everyone but: Jews, Muslims, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, the poor, children of the poor, gays, the ugly, the fat, the different, women, the deaf, the blind, the short, the not so smart, the way to smart, the lower class, the underclass, the middle class, people with class, people with no class, kids who can't afford class, the sick, the destitute, the hungry, the thirsty, etc……………
Basically if your not a rich white guy. Jesus could give a shit about you and yours.
christian extremists fighting muslim extremists.
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in order to beat the terrorists, you must BECOME the terrorists.