For Bill and Hillary Clinton, the ultimate American dream is eight more years. Yet how do you think they would react to having dozens of partisans at their rallies sporting large signs calling for EIGHT MORE YEARS, EIGHT MORE YEARS?
Don’t you have the feeling that they would cringe at such public displays of their fervent ambition which the New York Times described as a “truly two-for-the-price-of-one” presidential race? It might remind voters to remember or examine the real Clinton record in that peaceful decade of missed opportunities and not be swayed by the sugarcoating version that the glib former president emits at many campaign stops.
The 1990’s were the first decade without the spectre of the Soviet Union. There was supposed to be a “peace dividend” that would reduce the vast, bloated military budget and redirect public funds to repair or expand our public works or infrastructure.
Inaugurated in January 1993, with a Congress controlled by the Democratic Party, Bill Clinton sent a small job-creating proposal to upgrade public facilities. He also made some motions for campaign finance reform which he promised during his campaign when running against incumbent George H.W. Bush and candidate Ross Perot.
A double withdrawal followed when the Congressional Republicans started roaring about big spending Democrats and after House Speaker Tom Foley and Senate Majority Leader, George Mitchell, told Clinton at a White House meeting to forget about legislation to diminish the power of organized money in elections.
That set the stage for how Washington politicians sized up Clinton. He was seen as devoid of modest political courage, a blurrer of differences with the Republican opposition party and anything but the decisive transforming leader he promised to be was he to win the election.
He proceeded, instead, to take credit for developments with which he had very little to do with such as the economic growth propelled by the huge technology dot.com boom.
Bragging about millions of jobs his Administration created, he neglected to note that incomes stagnated for 80% of the workers in the country and ended in 2000, under the level of 1973, adjusted for inflation.
A brainy White House assistant to Mr. Clinton told me in 1997 that the only real achievement his boss could take credit for was passage of legislation allowing 12 weeks family leave, without pay.
There are changes both the Clinton Administration actively championed that further entrenched corporate power over our economy and government during the decade. He pushed through Congress the NAFTA and the World Trade Organization (WTO) agreements that represented the greatest surrender in our history of local, state and national sovereignty to an autocratic, secretive system of transnational governance. This system subordinated workers, consumers and the environment to the supremacy of globalized commerce.
That was just for starters. Between 1996 and 2000, he drove legislation through Congress that concentrated more power in the hands of giant agribusiness, large telecommunications companies and the biggest jackpot-opening the doors to gigantic mergers in the financial industry. The latter so-called “financial modernization law” sowed the permissive seeds for taking vast financial risks with other peoples’ money (ie. pensioners and investors) that is now shaking the economy to recession.
The man who pulled off this demolition of regulatory experience from the lessons of the Great Depression was Clinton’s Treasury Secretary, Robert Rubin, who went to work for Citigroup-the main pusher of this oligopolistic coup-just before the bill passed and made himself $40 million for a few months of consulting in that same year.
Bill Clinton’s presidential resume was full of favors for the rich and powerful. Corporate welfare subsidies, handouts and giveaways flourished, including subsidizing the Big Three Auto companies for a phony research partnership while indicating there would be no new fuel efficiency regulations while he was President.
His regulatory agencies were anesthetized. The veteran watchdog for Public Citizen of the Food and Drug Administration, Dr. Sidney Wolfe, said that safety was the worst under Clinton in his twenty nine years of oversight.
The auto safety agency (NHTSA) abandoned its regulatory oath of office and became a consulting firm to the auto industry. Other agencies were similarly asleep-in job safety (OSHA) railroads, household product safety, antitrust, and corporate crime law enforcement.
By reappointing avid Republican Alan Greenspan, chairman of the Federal Reserve, Mr. Clinton assured no attention would be paid to the visible precursors of what is now the sub-prime mortgage crisis. Mr. Greenspan, declined to use his regulatory authority and repeatedly showed that he almost never saw a risky financial instrument he couldn’t justify.
Mr. Clinton was so fearful of taking on Orrin Hatch, the Republican Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, that he cleared most judicial appointments with the Utah Senator. He even failed to put forth the nomination of sub-cabinet level official, Peter Edelman, whose credentials were superb to the federal appeals court.
Mr. Edelman resigned on September 12th, 1996. In a memo to his staff, he said, “I have devoted the last 30-plus years to doing whatever I could to help in reducing poverty in America. I believe the recently enacted welfare bill goes in the opposite direction.”
Excoriated by the noted author and columnist, Anthony Lewis, for his dismal record on civil liberties, the man from Hope set the stage for the Bush demolition of this pillar of our democracy.
To justify his invasion of Iraq, Bush regularly referred in 2002-2003 to Clinton’s bombing of Iraq and making “regime change” explicit U.S. policy.
But it was Clinton’s insistence on UN-backed economic sanctions in contrast to just military embargos, against Iraq, during his term in office. These sanctions on civilians, a task force of leading American physicians estimated, took half a million Iraqi children’s lives.
Who can forget CBS’s Sixty Minutes correspondent Leslie Stahl’s tour through Baghdad’s denuded hospitals filled with crying, dying children? She then interviewed Mr. Clinton’s Secretary of State, Madeline Albright and asked whether these sanctions were worth it. Secretary Albright answered in the affirmative.
Bill Clinton is generally viewed as one smart politician, having been twice elected the President, helped by lackluster Robert Dole, having survived the Lewinsky sex scandal, lying under oath about sex, and impeachment. When is it all about himself, he is cunningly smart.
But during his two-term triangulating Presidency, he wasn’t smart enough to avoid losing his Party’s control over Congress, or many state legislatures and Governorships.
It has always been all about him, Now he sees another admission ticket to the White House through his wife, Hillary Clinton. EIGHT MORE YEARS without a mobilized, demanding participating citizenry is just that-EIGHT MORE YEARS. It’s small wonder that the editors of Fortune Magazine headlined an article last June with the title, “Who Business is Betting On?” Their answer, of course, was Hillary Clinton.
Ralph Nader is a consumer advocate, lawyer, and author. His most recent book is The Seventeen Traditions.
Great article Ralph, please say you’ll run if the Hildabeast gets the nomination…Pretty please? The thought of not voting or voting for a Rep is nauseating…
Every two minutes (as long as the AFSC video)$619,000 is spent on the Iraq war. Thats a lot of solar panels (national security), health care, education, infrastructure…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnq6cD5jk1Q
send it to ten people to send it to ten people…?
There are so many myths about Clinton it is hard to know where to begin and Ralph Nader has done an excellent job here. He basically was extremely fortunate that the right wing opposition was split into two parties in 1992 or he would never had beaten Bush’s father. Even as a sitting president he could not obtain 50 percent of the vote in 1996. He is directly responsible for Nafta and the loss of millions of jobs and most of all he is despicable as a person as the current campaign is proving once again.
I want all potential candidates to run and speak their minds.
However, the Presidential Debate Commission is owned and operated by the two major parties so none of them will be allowed into the debates unless we work to expose this fraud.
Clinton supposedly used his presidency to build a “Bridge to the 21st Century.” Perhaps Bill was as dyslexic as Bush, which might explain how that bridge has been crossed, and we now find ourselves in the 12th century, at least in terms of our legal principles.
It’s a sorry situation when our best hope is to get back to the good old days of Clinton. But with many troubles building, the chance for some major changes for the better are truly possible. By the by, Chomsky on Book TV tonight at 9 Central.
Nader is a real national treasure. Thanks for telling the truth Ralph.
And a big “boo!” to all you Nader nattering nabobs!
An A+ for Ralph Nader on this article. Clinton also gave China, ‘Most Favored Nation’ trading status.
As the “lesser of two evils”, which is really a ridiculous saying, I voted for Clinton twice. After the 12 years of the Reagan/Bush nightmare, I thought we might actually get a real liberal in the Oval Office. By the time 2000 rolled around, I voted for Ralph Nader and encouraged other progressives to do so. (no regrets, whatsoever!)
I wish Ralph was running now, since Kucinich is out, but “the Fix is in.”
Bill Clinton has more unkind words for Obama than he ever did for the Republicans who attacked EVERYTHING he said or did for eight years in the White House. Perhaps he really was a political ‘Houdini’ mesmerizing the audience with the ‘illusion’ of populist legislation while catering to the ruling elite.
Oh, and Clinton’s passage of the 1996, ‘Telecommunications Act’ which gave the corporate media monopolists even more power to buy and control media outlets within the same city, etc. Any wonder why Dennis Kucinich was marginalized from the start?
Way to go Ralph. maybe citizens can stop the second Clinton juggernaught. The big problem this election is that we have three candidates that are virtually the same in their policies. No one is talking about “single payer” health insurance anymore (since Kucinich dropped out), or campaign finance reform, or major education reform, or IRS reform. So what we’re left with again is “bush-lite”.
There’s only one thing worse that 8 more years of Bush: 8 years of Clinton (or another Republican)
Great piece Ralph.
Hopefully you’ll run. We need SOMEONE to vote for!
Look pardner, hav`nt you lived long enough, and spoiled enough. You have contributed nothing to the betterment of the American people, however you continue to put your nose in to the ruination of everything you touch. Beginning with the Corvaire. You`ve been a spoiler all your sorry life, Will you please take a header off of something very tall. That surely will be something good you can finally do for your country.
Nader’s got it right.
I’ve long thought the Lewinsky “scandal” was Republican retaliation for Clinton’s success passing NAFTA.
And I think that’s the key to understanding Clinton’s presidency. It was all about attracting BIG BUSINESS away from the Republicans & into the Democratic Party.
Hence sHillary, whose agenda differs only slightly from GW’s.
Two parties, one playbook: who can pander most to corporate interests and sell it best to the taxpayers.
deTocqueVille warned that the American Democratic Experiment would succeed until the people figured out how to vote themselves money from the Treasury. Well, it wasn’t the people who figured that out, it was the Robber Barons, and they’ve spent over a hundred years perfecting the RIPOFF.
People are just now starting to wake up to the legacy of Clinton and Bush. In another ten years they may start acting on it.
Great article. Clinton suck. The only Ralphs I’ll vote for are Nader or Wiggum.
I think it is pretty obvious that Ralph Nader is quite an accomplished individual even outside of running for POTUS.
A Clinton presidency is nothing more than a back door surrender to corporate government and endless war.
Good on you, moonraven. And I’d like to know if a vote for Hillary means getting two for the price of one? Does that mean twice the disaster? I’ve never voted for a Clinton and never will.
Ralph, you really laid it out. Thank you. Are you still considering a run? I’m considering Edwards, but I would actually vote for Ron Paul over a Clinton. At least he’s honest. One thing that does impress me about Obama is that he’s keeping his cool with their racist attacks. I just wish he wasn’t so stuck to the corporations. I’ve had enough of that.
kathyodat
Funny, I seem to remember Nader as the spoiler who helped get Bush elected.
The Democratic Leadership Council ( “DLC”, so-called “New Democrats”) has prioritized party interests to become compatible with Republican/business interests.
DLC controls the Democratic Party since Clinton I in 1992.
Both Clinton I and II are Founders of DLC (1985).
One reason for no “checks & balance” accountability upon this tyrannical Presidency is due to this incestuous relationship between DLC and Republicans.
“The Third Way” summarizes the philosophy of DLC.
http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=87&subsecID=205&contentID=895
“ … “New Democrats” in Congress have built a reputation as the “go-to” group in Congress on the critical issues of pro-growth, security, and personal responsibility.”
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=103&subid=110&contentid=3869
“Chair of the DLC’s American Dream Initiative: U.S. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY)”
http://www.dlc.org/index.cfm
gerix,
I think it was the other way around. Gore/Lieberman took votes from Nader.
Please, Ralph..Give me a reason to vote.
gerix January 26th, 2008 1:49 pm…Please, that’s an old dog that doesn’t run any more. Harris, Jebb Bush, Gore and SCOTUS gave bush the election.
gerix, you remembered wrong. John Kerry cost John Kerry the election, along with a little assistance from vote tampering.
Cheers.
“gerix January 26th, 2008 1:49 pm
Funny, I seem to remember Nader as the spoiler who helped get Bush elected.”
Even funnier, I remember a document called the Constitution that, until Republicans and Clintonites discarded it, made it a patriotic right to run for office to stand for the people….that is until the Republicans and Clintonites started using corporate polls to label all other candidates “spoilers”…except them.
Some people know what it means to be an American. Gerix, you are not one of them
What Clinton did was support and pass the major bills that couldn’t get passed under Bush 1st: NAFTA, Welfare “deform”, deregulation of financial industries, etc.
Bush 1st was too obviously a plutocrat to get the above right-wing agenda passed; his fellow plutocrats needed a “good-ol’boy” in the Democratic Party to pass these laws in order to demoralise, disenchant and disburse progressive groups.
Remember, Clinton watchers in Arkansas used to observe that he was great with his enemies and easily disposed and ignored his friends.
The guy wanted to be liked by the powerful and he was disinterested in the powerless.
In politics, the best thing to be was Clinton’s powerful enemy.
Just look at Clinton and Bush 1st romping around together after they retired.
He was granted a Fulbright Scholarship because he knew how to suck up to,and charm the pants off of the powerful ex-Senator Fulbright.
He was always the putocrat’s poodle.
Last, for some strange reason, Ralph didn’t list Clinton’s intervention in the Balkans.
Places like Kosovo, are run by mafiosi thugs he put into place. In addition, Kosovo possessed one of Europe’s largest and oldest mining compounds which is now privatized.
So, the Clinton’s intervention in the Balkans was somewhat about controlling mineral extraction complexes.
Instead of “Blood for Oil”, Clinton orchestrated a NATO incursion into Serbia and Kosovo for minerals.
Though he was instrumental in getting the Serbian president tried for war crimes, he did it under the auspices of the Euro court.
Smooth.
And when Serbia’s ex-president was able to put up a spirited defense implicating the US in war crimes, ethnic cleansing, supporting terrorist organizations (Albanian Liberation Front) and demonstrating that the US and European media were the lying lapdogs that they are, he quietly and conveniently passed away.
The cruder Bush adm., instead, had their Iraqi puppets sloppily judge and execute the ex-leader of Iraq.
I quess the difference between Clinton and Bush is that Clinton sucked/sucks up to the economically powerful and when he waged foreign wars, they were limited, efficiently murderous affairs that used a small amount of our military resources and personnel.
And he didn’t saddle us with a huge Homeland Security bureaucracy.
I am proud to say that I never voted for Clinton, nor will I vote for that snake of his wife. Ralph did not spoiled the elections, the US citizens did.
Ralph Nader is too much a decent person to become a US president. I believed in Ralph and voted for him in 2000 and 2004; it is too bad that the ignorant USAns did not vote for him, that is why we are in this mess
today. Please, Ralph, go as an Independent and take Bill Moyers as your VP.
Tom Phagan: If you would quit watching Fox News, you would know what Nader has done for this
country.
DLC — the Republican wing of the Democratic party –with more than 40 “blue dogs” who consult with the Bush and GOP leadership!!
If that isn’t betrayal, I don’t know what is???
Americans are beginning to wake up to this to some degree, but they have only EDWARDS to tell them right now.
We need a national movement to a third party —
And we need leaders who will stop supporting the Democrats and move us there —
Those leaders were also intimidated by the steal of 2000, but they may be waking up now?
And, btw, the computer steals didn’t start in 2000, they go back to the mid-1960’s. See: “Votescam - The Stealing of America” [website and book] by Jim & Ken Collier who began to investigate the computer election in the early 1970’s.
Thank you Ralph Nader for keeping us all on track —
if only we would wake up!!!
endCapitalism January 26th, 2008 2:21 pm … Huh?
8 more years is a hopelessly inadequate response to the challenges we’re facing in 2008.
I’ve hung up my Democrat dancing shoes, and will either write in Dennis Kucinich or back the Green Party candidate, whomever that is.
When W.J. Clinton was first elected president, it appeared he was moving the Democratic party to the right to keep it viable for the future when the political worm had turned in favor of progressives. That turned out to be wrong, wrong, wrong. H.R. Clinton is no different, and farther to the right, than her marriage-of-ambition husband. If she gets the nomination and is subsequently elected, the Democratic party, as we have known it from the time of FDR, will be truly finished. It will have permanently fallen into the hands of yuppies and soft-shoe, crypto Republicans. If the nation is going to drive over a cliff in a BMW, better let a Republican be at the wheel.
I agree with all of what you are saying about BILL Clinton. But of course, since Hillary Clinton is a woman, then it must be her husband who is running and of course He will call the shots when She gets elected, is that the point of this article? It seems like more sexism to me. I think that there is enough to criticise Hillary about other than her choice of husband.
The Clintons sole legacy in leadership is their willingness to administer the coup de grace to whatever was left of progressive politics inside the democratic party. For that, both of them- war criminals to the bone- deserve the contempt of history.
Mr. Nader,
Count me in as one of your votes in the 08 election.
Rudyjo is right.
Had Nader not prevailed in his early 1960’s fight with the auto industry, you would not even be getting seat belts in your new car. His subsequent contributions to the working class exceed the combined contributions of all the past five presidents combined.
Unfortunately, Nader lost a few battles, the most critical being his push during the Reagan admininistration to get secure cockpit doors required on commercial aircraft. Ronny Raygun and Company determined that such a law would be too burdensome for business, thereby enabling the 9/11 hijackers to succeed.
Nice artical Nader.
moonraven how would you know, if you don’t watch it yourself? I wouldn’t know whats on fox.
By the time it comes to electing a Presedint it’s too late. there should be more effort to get green party members into congress.
get with your local green party chapter and find out when your states next election is.
Ralph Nader is right all the way, except for the eight years thing. We will have eight more years of Republicans because Hillary can’t win. The previous Clinton stories will resurface and the people will say we’d rather have the republicans than the Clinton duo. A true feminist will go it on her own instead of having her spouse do the dirty tricks. She has lost a rather large portion of independents who think they can stomach republicans over the Clinton duo.
That is quite a litany of bad government, and its the short list. I’ll try to print the post or at least take notes. However, the Clinton Admin in cooperation with Gingrich did do a little good. Mostly compromises on redundant or no longer croitical military bases, and the welfare reform helped balance the budget and bring some sanity to federal finances. Like a corrupt city politician, occasionally Bill delievered the goods.
The Dubya/neocon scorecard is, however, all bad. We broke Iraq and are now paying for it, and a “stagflation” recession is about the best we can hope for at this point. Vote the Republicans out and THEN raise hell with the Democrats.
It would be great if Obama or Edwards got the nomination. Someone to vote FOR opposed to abstaining or voting for the lesser of two evils.
Nadar hogwash, meant to add nothing to the discourse. Ralph, if it weren’t for your ego we probably wouldn’t be in war now, New Orleans would be a long way to recovery, we wouldn’t be spied on by our government, we would still have the respect of the rest of the world and there wouldn’t be a database with over 900 documented lies of our current administration. How can anyone like you who is directly responsible for our dire situation think that you are in any position to lecture us about any of our candidates? Piss off, and let us sort this out for ourselves.
Ralph Nader, as usual, makes some excellent points. However, I can not erase from my memory the fact that he bears significant responsibility for the disaster of the last seven years (with an obvious assist from Republican voter suppression, vote stealing and that horrific supreme court decision awarding the election to W. In a democracy we are too often stuck with the bad choice between a greater and lesser evil. Nader’s candidacy in 2000 made just enough of a difference to swing the election to Bush, thus ensuring that we got the greater evil. Nader used to say that there was not a dime’s worth of difference between GW and Al Gore. At least he no longer repeats that particular mantra.
A Nader/Edwards, or Edwards/Nader ticket just might work in the present climate. If the republicans win again with McCain, we’ll get more of the same with a good chance of another war with Iran (remember “Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran?). Also tax giveaways to the rich are likely to be solidified, if not increased. Sooner or later, though, the majority of Americans will wake up to these failed policies and, unfortunately, it may take 4 years of McCain (or another similar repug). It is doubtful that any republican president will win the presidency after that but, sadly, we may become a third-world country before that happens.
The DLC influence on Congress is clear. It’s a pansey congress.
While I appreciate the sentiments of peaceman, willybill and EndCapitalism regarding the roles Kathleen Harris, Jeb Bush and SCOTUS (and James Baker) in helping Bush steal elections… and Loserman and Kerry in helping the Dems lose it, the fact remains that Nader made their jobs SOOOO much easier. So if you’ve enjoyed the last seven years, you certainly owe a large part of your gratitude to Nader.
Here’s more from Wikipedia…
2000
“…Nader’s votes in New Hampshire and Florida exceeded the difference in votes between Gore and Bush.[28] Winning either state would have given Gore the presidency, and while critics claim this shows Nader tipped the election to Bush, Nader has called that claim “a mantra — an assumption without data.”[29] Michael Moore at first argued that Florida was so close that votes for any of seven other candidates could also have switched the results[30], but in 2004 joined the view that Nader had helped make Bush President.”
2004
“…In this campaign Democrats accused Nader of having his bid funded by Republicans who wanted a repeat of his effect on the 2000 election.”
I agree with Nader that “There’s too much power and wealth in too few hands.” but I’m too pragmatic to want the greater of two evils to win/steal an election because I cast my vote for the spoiler.
Here is a thought that would freak out Hillary/Bill …Romney/Rice ticket.
I think only Obama/Edwards could have a chance to beat that.
Thanks for the history refresher, Ralph.
A real serious issue here, ___ scary.
Strange, the MOST serious issue to EVER face humanity, is the rapid ice melt in Anarctica and no one bothers to read the article.
It is the economic system stupid, and they all support it.
Ralph Nader did a lot of very good things. The best thing Ralph Nader has done in a long time, __ is endorse John Edwards.
C’mon Ralph. Run again. So we can take votes from that lying bitch Hillary.
He told you who he is votng for Jess, that takes votes from Hillary.
Hey, Tom Phagan. I’ve got an old Corvair.
Want to buy it? Never goes under 70 mph.
gerix January 26th, 2008 3:25 pm I refer you to this link…
http://www.cagreens.org/alameda/city/0803myth/myth.html
Anyone that says Ralph Nader’s opinion is worthless is because he’s a “spoiler” and he “gave us bush” really needs to get their head on straight.
Almost a million registered Democrats voted Republican while barely any registered Republicans voted Democrat. It was close to 30,000 Dems or more who voted for Bush in Flordia. Even if you discount the fact that Katherlne Harris stole the election, the 500 votes needed would have been covered by every other alternative party. Anyone blaming the socialist candidate?
The Democratic Party have taken a play out of the playbook of their friends across aisle and smeared Nader instead of taking responsibility for running such a weak campaign and chosing not have any principles themselves.
Your boy Gore would not have been much better. We’d just be running our empire more subtly and we would have collapsed it just would have taken long. Nader is right, there is no difference between the two parties. One will just fall faster than the other. Think for yourselves and don’t listen too those idiots in the Dem party.
Kristina 40
Please don’t vote for a Republican. Here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to scrawl Dennis Kucinich’s name on the Diebold machine with a jumbo Sharpie pen and then set myself on fire.
Ralph: I didn’t need the reminder, but thanks for brining it up again.
Like BeForKids, if Hillary is the Dimms candidate, I will NOT vote for her under any circumstances. I will write in Kucinich or vote Green. The Dimms are a lost cause. They’re done. Stick a fork in ‘em……
Hey Vox, the Sharpie is good. I’m not too sure about the fire thing. I think we’re gonna need you for the revolution. Can you rethink that fire thing?
Thank, Ralph. Now please run on a ticket with Bloomberg so we can have another eight years of Republican disaster.
Okay Nader, you really really really messed us up by taking the election away from the man who is now a nobel prize winner instead. You still happen to be right some of the time.
Will Democrats finally vote to change politics? Place your vote and read some fiery commentary, for whatever it’s worth, at
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/26/152022/853/812/443635
3 good pieces on the Democratic Primary today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/26/opinion/26herbert.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/26/opinion/26wills.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-chait26jan26,0,7890763.column
I think you’re probably hot enough Kristina,__ forget the fire act and vote for John Edwards.
I’d pay money to listen to a Cynthia McKinney v Ralph Nader debate between candidates for the Green Party nomination. That would be so much sweeter than listening to the Evilcrats throw race cards at each other while debating who sucks up to corporate power more than the other.
If you like Republican rule, just vote Democrat. Same $#!^, but just with a different face. If you keep voting for evil, even the very slightly lessor variety, then all you’ll get is evil. If you don’t build an alternative to the Evilcrats, then all you’ll ever be presented on a ballot will be a choice between evil and a very slightly lessor evil.
Of course the Evilcrats are upset. This article does such a fine job of exposing the facts that even when a Democrat is President, we still just get evil that’s backing and promoting the corporate takeover of our nation.
If you want something different, build something different.
The owners of the US only keep Nader around because they are pretty sure he will never win election to important office. If it ever looked like he would win something, or put a significant halt to the main agenda, he would be terminated. Same way for any independent runner for presendential appointment or popular front runner for party nomination. Planning for death by media assassination or real assassination would be afoot. The money junta that runs the US of I would not have it any other way.
ah, but what about a nader/mckinney or mckinney/nader ticket? either way, i will not vote for hillary clinton and I will not vote for any democrat who does not do the right thing by the american people.
Thanks Ralph! Nailed it again!
Rebel Farmer: The Dimms are a lost cause. BINGO!
hey gerix: what about the republicans who gave money to kerry and gore? are you going to criticize them? you’re pathetic … and a fool.
Ralph Nader is an American hero and a virtuous human being. I wish he had not remained outside the gates, but instead had stormed the Democratic Party and taken it into a new direction, like the NeoCons did with the Republican Party.
But he didn’t, and we are left with what we can get. The voters have spoken in this blind democracy, and even Democratic ones have left Kucinich out in the cold. They have left Gravel out in the cold. They are leaving Edwards out in the cold. And in the General Election, when Repukelicans and Indies can vote, I really believe Barak Hussein Obama, who is only a Lieberman-Democrat anyway so what difference, would lose big time.
So what does that leave? Another Repukelican or Hillary. We can dream that the people will wise up and vote Kucinich, or Gravel, or even Edwards. But it isn’t going to happen. And the Repukelicans are so very evil and stupid and blackhearted and divisive and moneygrubbing and warmongering and corpo-fascist, that I will hold my nose and vote for Hillary as the only one standing that may beat them, and is somewhat better at least. And hopefully she will be a better president than I expect.
And Ralph, don’t you say again that the respective candidates are tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee. We have learned the hard way that you were way wrong on that one!
Mr Nader. I find your comments refreshing as though I may not always agree with your outlook you are well informed, intelligent and considerate of all the facts.
I would ask you your opinion of Mr. Obama. After seeing his wife talk I have high hopes for him. I do believe he is, to his core a good individual. Would he not make a good leader?
My other question is. Perhaps it is George W. Bush who has created false hopes in America, false hopes in what a President
can really accomplish? We criticize the President for his broadening of the executive powers, and yet remain wide-eyed at the thought of our “own” version of the president enjoying those same powers.
The basis of the article is about Bill Clinton and his chief accomodator, Hillary, who never paused in support of his outlandish, insincere, manipulitive, deceitful, and trangulating ways. William Greider of the Nation also lashes out at the Clinton kool-aid cult and calls them as it is:
“We are sure to see more of Mr. Bill’s intrusions because the former president is pathological about preserving his own place in the spotlight. He can’t stand it when he is not the story and, one way or another, he will make himself the story.”
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?pid=274075
The Republicans are going to win again, unless we coalesce around a candidate that will unite progressives and liberals, whites and blacks, poor and middle class, north and south, and conservative middle America and coastal America. That man is John Edwards.
“Nadar hogwash, meant to add nothing to the discourse. Ralph, if it weren’t for your ego we probably wouldn’t be in war now, New Orleans would be a long way to recovery…” yadda yadda, gasbag bullshit, and generally more of the same Democratic Party blather.
All these Democratic cheerleaders who have crystal balls should open up shop with the card sharks and street hustlers, because that’s exactly what they are.
You folks who are spamming Nader (and by inference, those who voted for him) as spoilers, are really the dumbest fucks. Do you realize how much enmity you create? Do you think folks who voted for Nader and other non-Democrats are going to be swayed by your pathetic ill-logic? Or are you merely Republican proxies? Wouldn’t be the first time.
07/09/04 San Francisco Chronicle
“Independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader has received a recent windfall of contributions from deep pocketed republicans an analysis of federal records show.
Those writing checks to the Bush Cheney campaign have also “bundled’ contributions, gathering hefty donations for maximum effect to help Nader, a practice he has criticized in the past.”
Worse than this are the investments he has in weapons manufacturers, and invested money he has which is directly helping with the genocide in Darfur. I detailed these in a previous thread but got no, I mean zero, response to those delineated facts.
And when he was turned away from commenting at a debate recenty, that was going to be as a (paid) pundit for Fox News.
Any thoughts on these things other than name-calling?
I had a corvair, years ago. On a rainy day I braked around a corner and since it was a very heavy car and all the weight was in the back it immediately lost traction on the front wheels and skid into the driver side of an oncoming car, crumpling its front fender. If I had been going only slightly faster it probably would have killed the driver.
Without a complete redesign–weight redistribution, antilock brakes, etc.–corvairs could never have been made safe.
Fastest g/d car I’ve ever had, and the most dangerous. Unsafe at any speed.
Moonraven,
I normally enjoy your riffs, but “90% of the people who post on CD regularly watch Fox news”.??? What hat did you pull that ridiculous figure from? And from a realistic point of view, how, beside some extraordinary type of cyber telepathy could you possibly know what anyone watches, much less 90% of the people posting on this site?
pbk,
Forget it, she’s gone south on us, literally.
Thanks Ralph. I’m proud of my vote for you back in 2000. I wish I had a real candidate to vote for in 2008. Things don’t look good.
Don’t know about this election will probably stay home. The systems broken and completly rigged from the diebold voting machines to the corporate owned media to the lobbyist bought candidates. I don’t want to legitimize a broken system. Participating in voting I’m afraid would be giving my consent to this mess.
Good thoughts, well said Ralph Nader. You often go on a lot about the inconsequential stuff that can;t help too much but this time your correct. However, how will this message reach the ignorant public who thinks that the Messiah returns? Nothing you say here will stop this corporate election fiasco. Ralph, use it elsewhere and tell the world of American voting women who simply want one of their kind. I would vote for a woman but not this one.
__
Hi Ralph always great to hear from a true American hero in these times of great despair for all freedom loving, liberty loving, peace loving people worldwide. I agree the democratic party is far from perfect which is one of the reasons I voted for you 3 out of the 4 times you ran for the presidency.
I agree totally with your assessment of Clinton’s presidency. But compared with the tens of thousands of high crimes committed by the current Nazi administration it appears fairly benign. In my opinion the Nazi terrorist of the bush administration/republican party must be stopped soon or it will be too late. It may; like global warming already be too late and I will never vote for any republican ever again. And as soon as a viable alternative to the current Democratic Party emerges I will vote for that party.
However, with the incredible propaganda machine by the WMD’s ,War Mongering Ducebags ,.aka MSM, how can we possibly get 50,000,000 people out of their Lazy Boys?
Thank you for all you’ve tried to do to help make our country a country where all (99.99) Americans would have been proud to live in. Unfortunately we all know who the .01 percent of freedom hating, liberty hating, Nazis are and what they control.
It’s no comfort to know the record of the Clinton DLC Democratic party, but Ralph lays it out well. I’d just add Clinton’s environmental policy to the ugly list. All he did was sign an order to support a reduction in arsenic levels in drinking water. Clinton waited till the very last days of his eight years to sign it and then it was promptly overturned by incoming Bush.
Furious Dem supporters need to check the record. You look like fools when you post against Ralph. The record shows that it might just as well have been Poppy Bush during the Clinton years - the policies were the same!
If there’s no one to support, that’s cold comfort. But the public needs to wake up about this two-party thing. Don’t vote for candidates with a record of letting the people down. And by the way, that includes Edwards with his past war support. An apology is too easy, and too late.
Thanks Ralph for your 30,000 votes in florida just what W needed to start the worst administration of 8yrs any comment on that smart move????
The War on Cooperate
We made lot’s of headway tin 2008
We declared war on cooperate
The green backs were floating on an ocean of slime
with non entity persons pushing their bottom line
We closed yellow ribbons and colored them green
so the war machine would never be lean
as debt’s and the DOW rose above the mean
The dick of all dicks threatened the button of doom
while the have’s and the have mores bunkered in tombs
The apple pie sky puffed like turds from on high
while the pursuit of happiness just said goodbye
Say ; ‘Where did we come from
and when will we go?’
COMarc January 26th, 2008 4:54 pm
“I’d pay money to listen to a Cynthia McKinney v Ralph Nader debate between candidates for the Green Party nomination.”
You can watch one for free:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKHr-azwtso&feature=related
To hell with Nader! All he is is the left wing of the Republican party. While he talks about the D’s, he, as always, offers NO solutions.
All Nader, and his MASSIVE EGO, has given us is Bush!
He has ZERO crediblity within the labor and wider movements due to his gigantic ego and his disruption of any united approch to defeating the ultra-right. I dislike the Clintons, but on their worse day, assholes that they are, they’ve not brought down on regular folks the misery that Bush and ultra-right have done. Nader needs to crawl back into his hole and leave the rest of society alone. For his egotism and his disuity, I, like everyone I know in the labor mvoement, detest him!
As Sid Hatfield said to the Felts gun thug; “I wouldn’t piss on him if his heart was on fire!
“Eight More Years”?
Well, from the looks of it right now, we will likely have “eight more tears” of Bushism, since Obama swamped the South Carolina primary and Edwards came in a distant third. We will likely end up with either McCain or Romney as our next preident and we all better hope it’s Romney and not McCain.
I’m not surprised Edwards did so badly there in his home state, it is self evident that most of the voters in America are not well informed due to our sorry-ass MSN. That’s precicely why we have Bush as a president.
Madeline Albright the star of the Clinton Adminstration,
like Billary, she has investments in the Middle East, try google with her name and the middle east.
What Ralph is not telling us is Bill Clinton’s connections with Dubai Ports where Billy was a consultant for the take over of our Eastern Ports by Dubai Ports for a $1,000,000 Fee, the Story that Edwards and Obama are scared to talk about..
The story about how Billary is owed some $20,000,000
for his investment in Dubai Ports, the company that is helping the Arabs along with the Bush family Corporation, the “Carlyle Group”, in the purchase of our defense plants. Are they all scared of the Clintons?
Edwards and Obama should quit the race as incompetents.
Dear Mr. Nader,
Please run. There are no decent candidates to vote for. If the right wingers give you money in hopes that you’ll divide the democrats, then let them do it. All the talk of Ralph Nader stealing the election from Gore is mere hogwash. It’s based on the assumption that if Ralph doesn’t run, then all the people who voted for him will vote for whatever stooge the democrats come up with. The fact of the matter is, that the low percentage of people who vote in this country (relative to a number of others) is no accident. This is because many voters feel there is no meaningful choice between the candidates offered for public consumption. The Democrats since Reagan have been following a strategy to move to the center to attract some of the conservative voters. In doing so, they have alienated many of the traditionally left-wing voters who haven’t any reason to turn up to the polls, to legitimize a system of voting in which they had no meaningful choice. If one wants to merely rubber-stamp the choice of the ruling class, by all means degrade yourself. I for one don’t want to be a party to the charade.
The powers that be seem to believe that people who don’t vote are ignorant or complacent and put their efforts into “get out the vote” campaign with a ragtag army of voter registration volunteers. Just fielding a few decent candidates like Ralph, who is saying something different than CorporateMan (or woman as the case may be) brings a lot of people out of the woodwork who’d have likely sat it out on the sidelines.
Please Run Ralph. People are counting on you to be the change. We need a third party candidate that can break the two-party power monopoly so society will have a wider spectrum of political choices. This is a much more worthy cause than Bush or Gore.
Varadarajan Mudaliar
Yeah Ralph run, and make damn sure the Republics win again.
ralph nader,
thank you for words of wisdom, all of your points are heart wrenchingly valid. especially the comments about US sanctions against iraq i remember sitting in a church in the 1990’s with other concerned citizens, listening to reports from voices in the wilderness, looking at photographs of emaciated children dying from disease that could have easily been prevented with medicine and proper medical staff. the clintons (i guess they’re one person at this point) easily could have negotiated with iraq and prevented this humanitarian nightmare.
i’m encouraged by the comment in the letter to the editor section of nyt’s this morning where a reader questioned the times decision to endorse clinton, based on a simple observation that if clinton wins we’ll experience 24 consecutive years of bush/clinton (i always extend this number an extra 8 years b/c i feel to some degree reagan on many levels was an incapacitated figurehead of the republican party and that most of the functional intelligence/military strategy - like iran contra - was orchestrated by bush the father - and his oilmen - hence 32 years). i was disturbed that the editorial board of the times just overlooked this glaring observation as they causally endorsed clinton (as they overlooked kerry and bush’s fraternity: 300 million people in the US and the 2 candidates for president are from the same fraternity from the same elite university ‘66, ‘68, which only includes 12 people a year. therefore out of 36 people in 3 years at skull and bones, 2 of these people would pair off in the general election of 2004). the elites dominate this country as they have since the declaration. yet despite the corporate rule in america, the symbol of our country, although directly tied to the elites, has not been a symbol of tribal rule via dynastic bloodlines. this is the covenant that was shredded by bush2 and it’s telling (but disturbing) that the american public would so willingly avoid this subject, especially when using ‘experience’ as a debating point when the editorial board endorses a president.
i’ve followed your career for 15 years. i voted for you and campaigned for you in 96, i voted for you in 00, i’ve seen you speak twice and i continue to follow your comments at your web sites and here at CD. i respect you as an intellect. why is a house seat or a senate run beneath you? and how would you interact with a bipolar congress (in other words how could you overcome raw political ambition dems/repubs) without a coalition in the congress — are those dems? and how will this mighty transformation of consciousness sweep away 232 years of precedence ? candidly i don’t think a 3rd party candidacy is an effective strategy. by voting green the best a person can hope for (unless they’re oblivious to history) is federal matching funds next time around and perhaps more recognition of the party.(which is good vote your conscience) it won’t necessarily effect the outcome of the election unless it hinders another (as many have noted above as a reason for you to run). also i never blamed you or the ideas of the left for the ascendancy of our leaders.
?? why would a run for a congressional seat be so ineffective ?? in other words why does it have to be the presidency (especially considering how ineffective this could portend without a sold base of support in congress, after slaying the dems i doubt they’ll be willing to be nice).??
i am donating to the sheehan campaign to see a fresh voice in congress who’s pro peace and i’m sending money to kucinich for his legitimate stands in the election and his voice in our congress. where is your voice Mr Nader? i can’t imagine anyone who’s steadfastly opposed evil who would not appreciate your voice in congress….
“Independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader has received a recent windfall of contributions from deep pocketed republicans an analysis of federal records show.
Those writing checks to the Bush Cheney campaign have also “bundled’ contributions, gathering hefty donations for maximum effect to help Nader, a practice he has criticized in the past.”
And I have posted proof that this was either A. False, or B. Done purposely by Republicans to discredit him and as an election calculation against Gore.
Quit flogging a dead horse and maybe people would respond to you.
The real people responsible for the Bush win in 2000 are the assholes who advised Gore to pick Joe Lieberman as his VP. Had the ticket been Gore/Nader they would have won hands down.
The debate with Cheney would have been a lot more interesting too.
“gerix January 26th, 2008 1:49 pm
Funny, I seem to remember Nader as the spoiler who helped get Bush elected.”
You know, the more time I spend here, the worse I feel and more I realize that things will not change by the force of our better nature. They will change because we are too weak to open our eyes, screw our courage up and, fight hard for what we know is necessary. They will change against our will because we are too chickenshit.
I need a break.
Godspeed.
I voted for Nader in ‘96 and campaigned and voted for Nader in 2000.
I was a 3rd grade teacher in an inner city school when the Clintons’ welfare reform bill was signed into law and I knew what that was going to do to the kids I loved, so there was no way I could in good conscience vote for the man after that.
Joe Lieberman a heartbeat from the Presidency? Vote Nader.
The relationship between the Democrats and the Republicans is very well explained by a story my friend Peter Camejo used to tell on the stump in 2004.
“The Republicans want to cut wages by 10%. They call for a 20% wage cut. Then the Democrats come out and say, ‘We are the friend of the worker. We only want to cut wages by 10%.’
“Then the Republicans say, ‘You’ve got a deal!’ And wages are cut by 10%.”
yes, Ralph. Good point. We should re-elect the republicans instead of those awful democrats. Great idea. You did it last time, good to see you’re on the campaign trail again.
The Republican candidates have all promised to keep the war going indefinitely, so we don’t need to worry about having years of no war like we had under Clinton. And you know the Republicans won’t reinstate the “roadless rules” to protect wilderness that Clinton put through, so we won’t have to worry about that. We you on their side, Ralph, Republicans are almost insured victory. KUGW.
Why do you all keep wringing your hands. America is terminal. It’s over we lost this country some time ago. We wont be getting it back. Sorry,take up a hobby. Stay in touch with your family. Forget politics it’s over!
Why don’t all the anti-Nader whiners complain about Bill Clinton? It was Slick Willie’s sleazy affair with Monica Lewinsky that gave Bush an opening for his “honor and integrity” schtick. Without that, Bush would have had nothing to campaign on.
Why don’t they complain about the lackluster campaign that Al Gore ran? The election wouldn’t have been close if Gore campaigned like he actually wanted to be President.
Whey don’t they complain about the Congressional Democrats who have handed the country lock, stock, and barrel over to Bush since 2000?
Answer: Clinton, Gore, and their pals in Congress have that letter “D” after their name. Ralph Nader doesn’t.
unionguy January 26th, 2008 7:42 pm
“To hell with Nader! All he is is the left wing of the Republican party. While he talks about the D’s, he, as always, offers NO solutions.
All Nader, and his MASSIVE EGO, has given us is Bush!”
Yeah, and the Democrats and Republicans run for office purely out of their love for America. Sure.
Do you mean Bush won becuse Bill had a BJ?
You know what, I do believe you are right. It sure did get the evangilicals steamed up.
to gerix and her ilk !
I have two words for you JOE LIEBERMAN
In 2000 Liberman was the VP of choice of Al Gore ( bore or whore as you would have it ),If you recall it was Gore who won the election but he walked away without a fight!!! could it be that he understood that his time in office would have been limited as the Zionists would have been shall we say glad to have their pal Joe in place to start all the wars that this monster to the right of GW would have instigated for the sake of another country !!!!!
Now it might be beneficial for some of you to remember this history as it seems to be repeating itself.
Isn’t it funny that McCain was thought to have become a non contender in the 08 race until a certain Joe Lieberman threw his support behind said McCain and suddenly lots of money came his way .
For the Nader bashing progressives here - how about a different & more pragmatic strategy this time? Let us give a republicans a win in ‘08, instead of prolonging the republican-democratic-republican 8-year cycles for ever.
That way, the Reps would obliterate the Dems in another 8 years (instead of of a “pragmatic” compromise voting for Demms putting them on oxygen), with the Reps’ true colors releaved more flagrantly among the masses. At that point, the independents & greens would have a very favorable political environment to work with & win.
Perhaps after 8 years of Hillary we’ll get 8 years of Laura Bush.
Given outward appearances, we seem to be a monarchical/republic hybrid.
The damage you caused to our nation by aiding the Bush team theft of the 2000 election– which led to the unprecedented destruction caused by this reckless, unfit, & arrogant president– eclipses any positive accomplishments you might have ever made.
.
I’ll say it again…
http://www.ontheissues.org/ Ralph…Ralph_Nader.htm
We needed Ralph Nader as President in 2000.
We needed Ralph Nader as President in 2004.
We NEED Ralph Nader as President in 2008.
Never before as we do now.
.
KEM PATRICK January 26th, 2008 10:14 pm
“Do you mean Bush won becuse Bill had a BJ?
You know what, I do believe you are right. It sure did get the evangilicals steamed up”
I don’t think it was the only reason, but Gore could have done better without it.
You folks who are crying - saying that Nader caused Gore to lose are out of touch with reality.
Three facts you’re overlooking:
1)Most of the Nader supporters would not have voted in that election at all - without Mr. Nader. They would have stayed at home had he not run.
2)The Bush regime cheated - Gore got more votes and Bush got fewer than told the public. The “election” was fixed.
3) Bush was appointed by the Supreme Court who halted the recount.
Minor candidates and third parties have been marginalized by the MSM. It does no good for these people to run unless they can force media attention or buy their own.
One bright spot is that the Clintons are political animals. If they see a gain to doing something progressive they will do it and claim the idea for their own. The neocons will fight to the death for the most insignificant increase in fascism with no regard for the public will. You have to pry power from their cold dead fingers.
Bravo to the comment that FRAUD is what cost Gore the presidency.
Bush Jr.’s election was due to fraud and upheld by the Supreme Court packed with republican political appointees. I must agree that Clinton should have used the VETO to whip his then-Republican congress into shape. Clinton should have insisted on progressive legislation along with any republicans “reforms.” Take Welfare reform–it has been successful in helping people return to work when it started, during a good economy, but it should have had a much stronger safety net when the economy got worse. Free trade may have benefited big business and those who work for them, but he should have insisted on reforming abuses of labor before signing free trade agreements. Why not demand healthcare for all before continuing free trade? Why not demand a living minimum wage before allowing further illegal immigration. We need a strong progressive President to return us to the values that make our country strong–freedom, truth, equality.
The problem is not Ralph Nader, it is our dysfunctional system which has been taken over by the corporations. Ralph has been warning us about this for many years, but has been ignored. We have a clueless electorate that votes for the candidate with the most money. The ratio between the number of votes a candidate gets and the amount of money spent is direct.
The Democrats will destroy the middle class as surely as the Republicans. Clinton certainly did his share, but the public is so uninformed, they don’t know what hit them. I do, and as long as we have a Democrat or Republican running the country, we will have the corporations picking our bones. I had hopes for Edwards, but it looks like he’s toast.
kathyodat
I voted for Nader in 2000 and 2004, and I have the utmost respect for him. I hesitate to question his analysis — for fear he might respond and crush me like a bug — but it appears that in making the point that Bill Clinton was a disappointment as president Ralph may have left out a few things.
Clinton took office after corporate money had taken control of our national elections and turned the media into a propaganda arm for Republicans (witness the media’s pass on Bush #1’s extra-marital affair with Jennifer Fitzgerald, but their feeding frenzy on Bill’s dalliance with Monica Lewinsky), and after twelve years of toxic Reagan/Bush rhetoric and it’s corrosive effect on public opinion.
Yes, the Cold War was over and we expected a “peace dividend,” but as I recall Clinton did indeed cut the military budget and tried to apply the savings to universal healthcare. But, corporate interests, with help from their congressional lackeys and media minions, were too powerful. They not only stopped universal healthcare, they generated a public opinion backlash that swept the Democrats from power in both the House and Senate, and for the next six years Bill Clinton was stymied by a Republican Congress.
Yes, Clinton was “devoid of modest political courage, a blurrer of differences with the Republican opposition party and anything but the decisive transforming leader he promised to be . . .” as Nader reminds us, but it’s also true there were powerful forces aligned against him.
Nader is famous for saying there’s “not a dime’s worth of difference” between the Republicans and the Democrats, but I think there may be a little more difference than that. In my opinion, it’s dangerous to conflate Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter with the likes of Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.
Imagine, for example, a scale with George W. Bush rating zero on one end and Ralph Nader rating 100 on the other end. Where would Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton rate on that scale? I suggest (off the top of my head) Reagan may rate a 20 and Bill Clinton may rate a 40. In other words, there is twenty cents difference between Reagan and Clinton, but Clinton is still sixty cents short of a dollar.
KIM and Varda—Please, explain to me what postive program, what good thing, what bad thing was stopped, by Nader running for office in our (rigged for the 2 corporate parties) system. What our nation’s people ended up with was Bush, endless war, massive organized union busting, destruction of our entire pension structure, privatization of everything possible, theocracy, attacks on women’s rights, homophobia, endless war and the most massive redistribution of wealth, upwards, in our nation’s history. Oh yeah, and now we’ve got the biggest economic bust since the Great Depression! What Nader did, in fact, is break the unity that was needed to block the most vicious attacks of the corporations on our people! Yeah, he said good stuff, but the FACT is that is only concrete result of his run for office (besides totally isolating Nader) was that it helped elect Bush!
I do actually agree that a new political party, based on working people, middle classes, African Americans and Latinos, women, GLBT folks, with strong progressive values is needed. However, the building of that new party needs those main forces for it to have any effectiveness. The conditions are growing for a new party, but the indispensable first step that MUST be accomplished first is to DEFEAT THE ULTRA-RIGHT! Absolutely no positive change is possible with the extreme ultra-right wing Republicans in power! They must be defeated!
A new poltical party of substance will be born out of the struggles of our people. Right now the main, mass forces are all working their asses off to defeat the GOP/ultra-right in the upcoming elections. Those main forces, unions, others, are fighting for universal health care, to end the war, housing, jobs, envirnmental changes, pension rights and the right of workers to organize. A new Democratic administration will be faced with a huge economic crisis and a massive people’s movement demanding changes. AT THAT TIME they will have to respond and bring those changes about, or conditions would be ripe for those strong peole’s forces to form some sort of new People’s Party.
There is a lot of uninformed, self-sabotaging comments on this board. All this tripe about “ego” and “Gore’s loss” is straight out of the Nation Magazine and DLC smear-the-progressives (so as to protect corporate America) playbook. Nader is a hero of the people, pure and simple. Nader is one of the few people standing up for the public interest against the CORPORATE BEAST that has eviscerated the American middle class, brought on a US police state under the pretext of a false flag attack, murdered 2 mllion Iraqis over the past 20 years (and counting), and caused the greatest gap between rich and poor the US has ever seen. Nader is one of the few public intellectuals speaking on behalf of Palestinians against their Zionist slavemasters. Gore, Bush, Clinton, McCain, and in my mind even Edwards are all shills. They don’t sound, look, or feel convincing. Nor are their policies. That people think Edwards all of a sudden is a populist now is a joke. Look for people with lives dedicated to service and the reduction of human suffering — as opposed to self-aggrandizement and catering to the rich and powerful. Nader is one of the few who fit these criteria.
I am going to be watching Nader and McKinney closely in the coming months. I’ve donated $200 to the Greens — I suggest you do what you can to help them (until we can enact mandatory public funding for these elections).
I am also watching Ron Paul very closely, and have given to him as well. The most important goal right now is a big government/corporate PUSH BACK. We’re on the verge of martial law and major loss of civil liberties, with detentions for intellectual dissidents. I am not joking. This is what the corporate elite want. So what if Paul doesn’t like Social Security, Single Payer, or Abortion. I believe there are workarounds on those matters, and we are all toast if multinationals continue to charge up our treasury debt to over $10 trillion and consolidate power in Washington so that their bought congress can continue to vacuum up anything not riveted to this nation’s floor and hand it over to them.
Paul wants all the troops home (that are now stationed in over 130 countries). He wants to overturn the Patriot Act, dissolve Homeland Security, dissolve the Rockefeller cartel that prints our money out of thin air (ie the Federal Reserve) and put the dollar back on the gold standard. Read up on him. He’s up there with Nader as a man of virtue and principle. He MAY have a shot at the nomination. He’s the only true conservative Republican in a field of fascists. They all squirm when he’s around. Like Ralph, he speaks truth. Listen to him.
I’ve been watching and listening a lot at Alex Jones’ Prison Planet. Try some of his movies at You Tube, like Terror Storm and End Game. I really believe that too often, big centralized government becomes the enemy of freedom, especially when it is overrun by corporate interests. After seeing Jones’ treatments of Hitler and Bush parallels, I am very concerned. We don’t have much time. Paul would be chemotherapy to a government gone cancerous. Maybe later, after we’ve gotten WallStreet off the government gravy train, and when there are not so many financial conflicts of interest in Congress, we can start to do more at the national level. But for the present, the situation is totally out of hand, and we need to cede a lot of authority back to the states and the local communities. That’s my opinion at least.
******
peaceman: you posted a wonderful response to me a few days ago in that Iran War thread. I will try to post a response by tomorrow morning, and will let you know when I do. BTW, I am right there with you in encouraging Nader to make a 2008 run (either with McKinney, Paul, or MAYBE Edwards). Kucinich got screwed, that’s for sure. There should be RULES governing debates that would ensure that a voice like his be heard. As for Paul, he has a libertarian, Christian, militia base that is a real witches’ brew for Wall Street. I think Paul can get 30-40% of the electorate no problem, provided there is no Diebold or Republican/Democrat tampering of eligibility lists or other malfeasance.
conscience: We need a national movement to a third party — And we need leaders who will stop supporting the Democrats and move us there
So a shepherd is needed to lead the flock? So the magical hierarchy should somehow form itself, keep itself purged of corruption, and dutifully serve the better interests of a population that has no idea what, why or how to take responsibility for itself?
Americans really need to individually take the bull by the horns and become mavericks with independent minds following principles and formulating policies that serve the individual/society’s better interests. Then, people naturally gravitate toward the most progressive candidates for max benefit to the world. Failing this, we’ll have to brace ourselves for lots more imperial blowback, police state, world war, nuclear holocaust, genocide, starvation, flooding, mass extinction, civilizational collapse, etc.
Don’t forget that the key to successful societies is “elite” fear of the rabble. Some of the enjoyable and amusing things we can do is take the kids on field trips to disrupt and annoy the bureaucrats/plutocrats in their “planning” meetings, and tell the “boss” you’re taking election day off - with pay - to mingle with the crowd.
Try writing in Ralph Nader and similar progressive independent/third party candidates in the elections and likewise vote your principles in general civic/economic spheres by permanently shifting your general exchange/association to your local community of small scale enterprises/associations. Failing this, expect for you, your children and grandchildren to be enslaved by the corporatocracy until the collapse, and then find yourself unable to deal with it, and dependent on food handouts.
Fuck off. How’s your Halliburton holding, Ralph?
KC look into McCain’s father and the USS Liberty incident then look into who John McCain’s wife is and her background and you’ll have your answer. Look also at Pelosi’s husband and then you’ll know why impeachment over Iraq is off the table. These people want war with Iran.
Nader has pointed out many reasons not to vote for Hillary because he thinks Bill was such a disaster accomplished little of value. He overlooked the fact that we had a budget deficit when Clinton took office and it improved for eight years in a row so that we had enough budget surplus there was talk of paying off the national debt, which Bush has doubled in his term thanks to war and tax cuts for the rich. We have better things to do than pretend we are Republicans and dig up all sorts of crap to pin on Clintons. Edwards is a better bet, but if Hillary gets the nod, we better support her for four years.
Looks like you will have a choice between McCain and Hillary/Obama. Naders entry into the 2008 race would make it more possible for the neocons to stay in power via McCain (or Bloomberg if he runs as an independent). Hillary/Obama are the condidates for soft fascism, McCain/Bloomberg for hard fascism. Not great choices there, but one may be better than the other
A vote for Nader is simply a vote for the neo-cons and hard fascism.
Thank You Dr. Zen. I know Ralph is heavily invested with defense contractors, his money helps kill people in Darfur, but Halliburton was news.
In Darfur his investments help the genocide.
Why do the Republicans throw money at him? They know where their interests lie.
Electing Hillary Clinton will only mean eight more years of Bush’s same policies and probably war with Iran too.
I’ll definitely be voting for the Green Party’s candidate for president. Hopefully Ralph Nader will support whoever the Green Party selects this year. Although I voted for him when he ran as an independent in 2004, I think that we need a single progressive ticket this year: Cynthia McKinney for president!
http://www.runcynthiarun.org/
http://www.gp.org/
If you are rigging an election to win, how does it matter if Ralph runs or how many votes a third party gets? You just rig according to the trend on the voting day. I guess the above readers have forgotten the incredible summary article by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. on the various techniques used to rig our elections. Here is a link: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/print
Also check out gorewonflorida.org
As for the Clintons, check out an in depth series of articles entitled “The Financial Tsunami” by F. William Engdahl. In part III, Engdahl discloses that our current housing boom and bust was orchestrated by Greenspan with the help of Bill Clinton repealing the Glass Steagall Act in 1999 that created conflicts of interest against good lending behavior. These articles appear on financialsense.com
mikepeters January 27th, 2008 2:07 am
“Thank You Dr. Zen. I know Ralph is heavily invested with defense contractors, his money helps kill people in Darfur, but Halliburton was news.
In Darfur his investments help the genocide.
Why do the Republicans throw money at him? They know where their interests lie.”
Liberal Democrat LIE: The Republicans throw money at Nader.
The Truth: Only 4% of Nader’s money came from Republicans in 2004.
Liberal Democrat LIE: Nader is responsible for everything that has happened under Bush.
The Truth: It was Congressional Democrats who helped the Republicans enact the Bush agenda into law. They could have filibustered many of Bush’s worst initiatives, but they chose not to. Nader encouraged them to stick up to Bush.
Liberal Democrat LIE: Nader SINGLEHANDEDLY threw the election to Bush.
The Truth: Gore himself took responsibility for losing the election. He ran a lackluster campaign, and was also hurt by Clinton’s affair with Monica Lewinsky. Liberal Democrats say that the Supreme Court stole the election when it’s time to bash Bush, and they parrot Karl Rove’s talking points that Bush won fair and square when it’s time to bash Nader.
80% of democratic voters would be satisfied with Obama or Clinton. Let’s stop pretending the candidates are not responsive to the people or that the people have no real choices. The people and Clintobama are as one. Let’s have a drink.
So far everyone left out how extremely anti-union Clinton was. With his progressive social image he practically destroyed the union movement. Now the union movement is coming back. Though Bush Jr. could be more incompetent than less anti-union, but maybe his focus is elsewhere.
Clinton also, as people already mentioned, was almost as hard on the poor as Reagan and the elder Bush, but with his folksy casual dress, and horn playing, the poor liked him rather than continuing to organize for their rights.
We began losing our rights with the Cold War. Though actually during World War II, the war was won because we broke the German and Japanese code and was slow to react to Pearl Harbor and other German and Japanese atrocities to keep it secret that their code was broken. And scapegoated Japanese-Americans to woo Nazi types like Charles Lindbergh, who tried to join the Air Force on the condition that he’d to assigned to the Japanese front instead of Europe. Interning Japanese-American children was to prevent US Nazis from slashing tires during a severe ruber shortage for fear their children would be attacked.
The Socialist Workers Party dominated Teamsters Union was going to have a strike so the Teamsters Union was turned over to the Mafia to stop it. Then after the war the Entertainment Union was turned over to the Mafia to kick the Commies out. During the war, Communists were the best fighters and organizers against Hitler and thus were encouraged to take leadership positions.
Things got slightly better especially under Eisenhower and Carter, but Reagan had the October surprise and massive illegal donations from Marcus of the Philippines. Finally the country got some breathing space under Bush Jr., probably more due to incompetence then intent and many suddenly decide he’s responsible for all the counties and world’s woos and demand Impeachment to restore democracy. Especially Rep Robert Wexler, the neocon who once called Bush a fair weather friend of Israel, and pushed though Congress a resolution to praise Israel for attacking Syria. But I don’t want to go the rout of blaming the Israeli Alliance for our woos, because bin Laden isn’t stupid he knew Bush would attack Afghanistan, but hopes the US will withdraw into Isolationism as it kicked all the Jews and Muslims out of the country “to fight their wars in their part of the world not ours.” Which would turn 9/11 into a total success from bin Laden’s point of view. Which is why Moussaoui spent his entire trial as the alleged mastermind for 9/11 condemning his Jewish lawyer and urging America to blame the Jews.
Somehow most, who know what’s going on, get fixated on Israel, but why give al Qaeda the world it wants?
RichardKanePA@aol.com,
I will vote for Ralph Nader as I have in the past because to me,he is the the finest president we can ever hope to have.
I never have to hold my nose when I vote. He is my choice. I feel he is the winner. his ideals are so patrotic and heart warming. It is with complete satisfaction that I vote for him. I look forward to doing it again.
Just saying….
One huge thing all of the Nader bashers forget is that if Gore had been able to win his own home state he would have been president without Florida. That is really why he isn’t President.
Lobo Gris
bbr-001 January 26th, 2008 3:13 pm
“The Dubya/neocon scorecard is, however, all bad. We broke Iraq and are now paying for it, and a “stagflation” recession is about the best we can hope for at this point. Vote the Republicans out and THEN raise hell with the Democrats.”
And just what do you suggest everyone do to raise hell with the Democrats, threaten to vote for them again in 2012 if they don’t straighten up?
A citizen’s vote is the only power they have over the politicians that are supposed to represent them. If he or she refuses to wield that power negatively as well as positively then he/she can expect to be ignored.
Lobo Gris
Ditto - I too voted for Ralph in the previous elections. voting for someone rather than against someone just seems like the better action to take. So what is it going to be for this round - Nader/Kucinich ticket, Nader/Edwards ticket Can Obama and Nader work together? That seems like a strong ticket Obama/Nader, How can we get Nader in office - somewhere to inform decisions that are being made?
I hope Nader runs - I wish the democractic party would wake up and take a stance against global corporations and the downfall of possible peace in our life time - and put Nader on the ticket!
Al Gore and John Kerry did a huge disservice to America by not withdrawing from the presidential race and throwing all their support behind the only true Liberal that ran. Ralph Nader is one of the few politicians I know that wouldn’t have allowed the U.S. public to get hoodwinked into invading Iraq. The mere fact that Gore, Clinton, Kerry and Obama all supported the illegal and imperialistic venture in the Middle East speaks volumes about their true agendas… PLEASING THEIR CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTORS!!!
We progressives are such nice people.
We ought to be hot-wiring Diebold voting machines so that on election day we can exclaim:
“Well I’ll be….. Ralph Nader Won 90% of the popular vote!”
It is nice to see Ralph Nader reviewing the obvious.
It is not nice to see the recycled lies and reflexive Nader-bashing by discussants who will apparently accept Republican policies as long at they’re followed by a capital D.
Some of us remember what happened with the legislation that would have banned the permanent replacement of strikers. I think it was SB5/HB55. So much for supporting labor.
Yes, Ralph. RUN!!! (So we can put another Republican monster in the White House.)
I see we can expect the same intelligent voters going to the polls this year!!! They honestly believe a dinosaur like Nader is going to make a big difference? Grow up people! You can vote for him all you want but you are putting another Republican into office! So you can pat yourselves on the back and say job well done!
seriousprofessor: Ralph’s underpaid phone staffers tried to organize, form a union and he wiped them out.
“so much for supporting labor”
And what about his money in defense contractor’s, and in Darfur: anyone, anyone please, want to try and defend or deny that?
And money from Republicans? Don’t tell me he does not get it, tell the press, it is well documented and reported.
Disappointed to read so many Nader bashers here. Keeping things in perspective doesn’t rate very high in some minds. Nothing like trying to tarnish a good man’s name. We had a real chance for change with Ralph Nader. I voted for him in 2000 and 2004 and I’d do the same again.
Ralph Nader, all talk, no action.
Bottom line, in order to create a true alternative it will take a serious movement and many years. you would first need to create a base. by getting alt. parties elected at the lowest levels, freeholders, council memebers, mayors etc. then congress and then the senate. if no base is created then the same argument that has been made for years will continue to cancel out 3rd party candidates, that they have no constituency and no one to vote with them and noone to caucus with.
That being said why hasnt Nader, the God of the alternatives taken the action to roll up his sleeves and create something. Maybe I am speaking out of ignorance, I don’t follow the guys vapors and don’t know what work he has done but I would think that if he rolled up his sleeves like Howard Dean did when he took his current post then maybe we would have options.
I dont disagree with Nader, and I like the guy, but talk is cheap.
mikepeters January 27th, 2008 10:06 am
“And money from Republicans? Don’t tell me he does not get it, tell the press, it is well documented and reported.”
As I previously stated, Nader got only 4% of his money from Republicans in 2004. So, 96% of his money did NOT come from Republicans. Some of the Republicans donating to his campaign may have genuinely suppported him. Exit polls in 2000 showed that between 20% and 25% of Nader voters would have supported Bush in a two-way race.
John Kerry got more money from Republicans than Nader got from Democrats, Republicans, other parties, and independents put together.
In any event, getting 4% of your donations from Republicans is a much smaller offense than what the Democratic Party did to keep Nader off the ballot in 2004. They tied Nader up in court with lawsuits that they admitted were frivolous, harassed and intimidated Nader’s petitioners, sabotaged his attempt to get on the ballot in Oregon, used state employees to challenge his petitions on the taxpayers’ dime. They gladly took the support of a pro-Republican law firm to help them get Nader off the ballot in Pennsylvania.
While they were engaged in all of these unethical and possibly illegal tactics to keep Nader OFF the ballot, the Democratic Party was helping to change the law in nine states so that Bush could get ON the ballot. Shows you who their real enemy is.
liberal with an attitude January 27th, 2008 10:48 am
“That being said why hasnt Nader, the God of the alternatives taken the action to roll up his sleeves and create something.”
Nader participated in dozens of Green Party fundraisers from 2001 to 2003. He has encouraged the Greens to run many more local candidates than they are currently. I’m trying to recruit them in my state right now.