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Today's Top News
Pay as They Go: The Cruel Calculus of Deportation
On Sunday, thousands are set to rally in the capital to demand a just and fair immigration policy. Though the protesters will try to make their voices ring as loud as ever, perhaps nothing will speak more to the cause of comprehensive reform than the people who aren't there to contribute their voices.
The number of deportations-including people forcibly removed by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) as well as so-called "voluntary" departures in which people are pushed to leave on their own-clocked in at 387,790 last fiscal year. So Obama's first year in the White House saw a five percent increase in removals over the previous year. This escalating pattern of enforcement has split apart an estimated 1.6 million family members since the late 1990s, according to Human Rights Watch.
And yet 10.8 million undocumented immigrants remain this country. Though unauthorized immigration seems to have waned during the recession, the number still represents an increase of about 300,000 since 2005. So in the absence of real reform, what's left to do? How about finishing the job?
According to a study by the Center for American Progress, if the government were to attempt a program of total deportation of the undocumented population, the price tag should give pause to every right-wing anti-immigrant crusader in Congress, and maybe plant the tiniest seed of doubt in their minds about the cost of their hateful rhetoric.
CAP added up the many expenses involved in the industry of deportation--from the legal processing to the construction of new detention facilities to budget for ICE's "Fugitive Operation Program" to a one-way flight home courtesy ICE's Detention and Removal Operations Flight Operations Unit. The final figure is sobering:
[T]he total cost of mass deportation and continuing border interdiction and interior enforcement efforts would be $285 billion (in 2008 dollars) over five years.Specifically, this report calculates a price tag of $200 billion to enforce a federal dragnet that would snare the estimated 10.8 million undocumented immigrants in the United States over five years.6 That amount, however, does not include the annual recurring border and interior enforcement spending that will necessarily have to occur. It would cost taxpayers at least another $17 billion annually (in 2008 dollars) to maintain the status quo at the border and in the interior, or a total of nearly $85 billion over five years. That means the total five-year immigration enforcement cost under a mass deportation strategy would be approximately $285 billion.
That doesn't even factor in the total impact on the economy as the workforce is drained of workers in every sector, in numbers that rival the population of some states. (Undocumented workers make up about five percent of the labor force today.) And despite Rep. Lamar Smith's (R-TX) argument that ramping up Homeland Security's immigrant removal system could provide work for deserving Americans, the sheer magnitude of this enforcement-only approach, particularly in the midst of the current jobs crisis, would wreak immeasurable havoc on local economies, families, and the social fabric into which these households have firmly woven themselves, against all odds.
Meanwhile, a recent economic analysis by University of California at Los Angeles professor Raúl Hinojosa-Ojeda projects that legalizing currently undocumented immigrants would generate about $1.5 trillion in new wealth--and, of course, by keeping families together, would prevent massive emotional suffering on both sides of the border.
With all the acrimony on Capitol Hill over the deficit and "fiscal responsibility," CAP reminds us that "Spending $285 billion would require $922 in new taxes for every man, woman, and child in this country. If this kind of money were raised, it could provide very public and private school student from prekindergarten to the 12th grade an extra $5,100 for their education."
Many Republicans may twitch and shudder when asked to commit taxpayer funds to health care for their constituents, or confronting the impending threats of climate change, or even temporarily extending aid to the unemployed. But when it comes to cracking down on one of the backbones of the economy, they speak as if no price is too high to pay to destroy the undocumented population they've helped create.
Congress is now beginning to move on various reform proposals, and grassroots groups are seizing on the moment to leverage the growing political and economic clout of immigrant communities. It's likely that whatever legislation emerges will be laden with shortsighted restrictions and punitive fees, along with potential infringements on civil liberties--all of which could further entrench inequalities in the low-wage workforce.
But as long as money talks in Washington, the ugly legislative battle will at least leave the opposition speechless once they have to face the real costs of getting rid of all those immigrants that America supposedly can't afford.
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26 Comments so far
Show AllLook, you can't have a two-tier system, by making one set of immigrants jump through hoops to gain legal status, and grant others complete amnesty without some kind of backlash.
If you want to allow immigrants to come here to work, you must make the companies take responsibility, both by requiring they treat the worker fairly (i.e., paying them a fair wage, giving them workers comp., paying visa expenses, etc.), and by incurring severe penalties, including jail time, if they are caught breaking the law.
However, before the companies would do that, they'd likely hire an American worker, except where they can get a highly skilled worker at bargain basement prices on an H1a-b visa.
Also, an undocumented worker damn well knows deportation is the risk he or she takes when crossing the border illegally. I'm neither justifying, nor condemning the action, just stating the fact.
While we fight each other over an immigrant's status, or whether or not he should be granted legal status, the companies that exploit his blood, sweat, and tears are laughing all the way to the bank.
chessgames56
"While we fight each other over an immigrant's status, or whether or not he should be granted legal status, the companies that exploit his blood, sweat, and tears are laughing all the way to the bank."
Thats the God's honest truth and exactly what these cheap labor folks and their shills have in mind.
It's a damned shame but yet a reality that an inhumane program of immigrant "round-up" and deportation needs to be countered on the ground of its cost to American taxpayers. Unless those of the tea party mentality of eliminating taxes are totally hypocritical, they will have to apply the same standard of opposition to deportation-and-fine immigration "reform" that they did in opposing health care "reform."
Of course, as with health care policy, there is a far less costly and more morally acceptable (in a so-called "Christian" nation) solution to the problems associated with illegal immigration. The reform has too 2 prongs. 1. AMNESTY which grants "illegal" immigrants release from their illegal status and confers the full benefits of citizenship on them; and 2. American assistance in the DEVELOPMENT of the native economies of countries that are furnishing most of the immigrants to the U.S.---not of course neo-liberal "development" processes like those that seize the fruits of that development to the benefit of multi-national corporations, but those which allow people to enjoy the realistic opportunity to stay near the areas of their origin rather than be constained to emigrate in order to make a living.
Both of these "prongs" are of course debatable and should be debated when immigration "reform" takes center stage in U.S. politics now that a thoroughly counterproductive mess has been made of health care "reform." It may be that, just as the removal of single payer from the table of health care reform doomed the result to be this mess, so I would argue the above-defined approach, if abandoned at the start of this debate, will guarantee the same frustrating result. At least at the start if not at the end of the debate, why do we not even consider that we might indeed design an immigration policy from the "stratch" of a humane and decent approach to fellow human beings in this world? At the least it would represent a novel approach to the "exceptionalism" that seems to make us think that we Americans alone in the world need not think and act in terms of being citizens of the world community of peoples.
When the democrats start this debate it could very well blow up in their faces should they continue to use dishonest descriptions like calling these people undocumented workers instead of illegal aliens and trying to make these people out as immigrants when they are not. Many people including ordinary democrats do not buy this and do not like a huge pool of cheap illegal labor driving down their wages even more.
The first requirement of this discussion is that it be honest.
A. There are far more than 10 million illegal immigrants still here.
B. "undocumented immigrants" There is no such thing. The legal description is "illegal alien" but I have no problem with illegal immigrant. "undocumented immigrants" is a dishonest attempt to portray something as its not.
C. Trying to lump in voluntary returns with deportations is dishonest. They are of course not the same.
D. "by keeping families together, would prevent massive emotional suffering on both sides of the border" Another dishonest attempt to portray opponents of illegal immigration as "heartless destroyers of families" BULL. No one suggests that children should be separated from their families. No one!
E. "legalizing currently undocumented immigrants would generate about $1.5 trillion in new wealth"
The same lie used in 1986. As soon as they got legal status they were replaced by the next wave of cheap labor. Tax costs have ALWAYS been negative, NOT positive.
F. No one but Mr. Chen and the other business shills for cheap labor and a few radicals like Tancredo EVER suggested Deportation. Its really only the Chens of the world that suggest it. On one else, including me has any interest in it.
In fact, I would say almost any fair minded opponent to illegal immigration and exploiting them oppose Deportation period.
If someone refuses to speak honestly about illegal aliens, illegal immigration or the real cost of it, you can be sure they are profiting from it directly or indirectly.
I hear you, Veritas, and it sounds like so much bull shit. What you fail to mention is the huge bureaucracy that is growing and thriving on our immigrations policies. What you fail to mention is that the Mexican labor force is absolutely vital to the U.S. economy and that the need for these hard working people who are trying to feed their families is also vital. What you fail to mention is that the family values so touted by people like you are to be found in the families of these people. What you fail to mention is the fact that children ARE separated from their families, that families ARE torn apart, no matter that 'no one suggests' it. What you fail to mention is that the profits from illegal immigration are being collected by the same corrupt and vicious people who are fighting our 'war on drugs'. What you fail to mention is that our immigration policy is a joke, but no one seems to be laughing.
The real cost of illegal immigration as far as it is concerned with Mexico is that it is causing untold misery and even death to thousands of desperate people. They are the collateral damage of our War on Illegals.
I hear you, George, and it sounds like so much--well, you know. What you're saying is that the US economy needs underpaid slave labor with no benefits, thus justifying the status quo. That these workers essentially serve as a 'utility' for the rest of our benefit. Like all those outsourced jobs, they do the jobs we simply refuse or do not want to do.
The children cannot be deported with the parents because of the ridiculous 'anchor baby policy,' which those who cross illegally know full well how to game to gain various benefits and status. When families are 'torn apart' it may be that the parent decides that it is best to leave the children with a relative or friend, though no one is saying this is a happy circumstance.
"What you fail to mention is that our immigration policy is a joke, but no one seems to be laughing."
I assure you, it is no joke for those who have been through it; it is expensive, time consuming, and arduous. I agree it should be reformed.
I notice that many who support 'illegal immigration' completely ignore the exploitation by the businesses who exploit them, which I find curious, unless they are benefiting in some way.
You did say:
"What you fail to mention is that the profits from illegal immigration are being collected by the same corrupt and vicious people who are fighting our 'war on drugs'."
Then that needs to be addressed, along with many other businesses who are reaping huge profits at their and our expense. To ignore this aspect of the equation is being disingenuous, in my view.
George Markley
We do not NEED this "labor force" you speak of and if we did, there are plenty of legal methods of bringing in labor. Oh, wait! They wouldn't work that cheap, we'd have to be responsible for their medical needs and pay them a living wage. Thats why cheap labor types favor exploiting them.
I know far better than you I'd bet what kind of people these are and what their values are. Usually those that use the business cheap labor talking points don't know much about real illegals and their families.
The bull shit is in suggesting that anyone is responsible for "tearing apart" families other than the illegal's themselves. We do not in any way suggest or mandate that children should be seperated from their families or anyone else. You are saying they are not free to go with their illegal parents or thart anyone else is not free to go with them. Thats simply not true.
"What you fail to mention is that our immigration policy is a joke, but no one seems to be laughing"
Where is it a joke? Where exactly is it "broken"? You have mentioned not one specific.
"The real cost of illegal immigration as far as it is concerned with Mexico is that it is causing untold misery and even death to thousands of desperate people. They are the collateral damage of our War on Illegals."
This doesn't even make any sense. How does our immigration policy cause "untold misery and even death to thousands of desperate people" Where did you get the idea that America is responsible for Mexican citizens in any case. Mexico isn't nearly as desperately poor as the shills and business would have you believe.
Each illegal costs me $1274 per year, how many would you like? We simply can't afford to pay for them anymore, to subsidize business or to give the jobs to illegals rather than American workers.
Veritas (and Thalidomide): If you want to start right now the "debate" on the "from scratch agenda" of immigration reform that I outlined in my post above, this might be as good a time as any to join that debate. You two seem to be among the "us" whose overall liberalism draws the line on the subject of "illegal immigrants." Rather than dismissing a liberal viewpoint at the "scratch" point of just beginning to focus on an issue (as was done with single payer), how about getting a liberal immigration agenda on the table at the start and kicking it off only when and if it becomes untenable? What I'm saying is: I may be wrong but please to show me where I am wrong. (And of course I mean any other posters on this comments thread.)
phoenix20
I'd be happy to oblige....as I know you to be honest and straight forward in your opinions.
The first problem of debating this is the idea that our immigration policy is "broken" in the first place.
It looks to me as if we have "for the moment" one of the most open immigration policies in the world. So I would ask you first to define what you think is wrong with it? What are you saying needs to be reformed.
So lets start from scratch....where is there a problem with our current immigration policy?
At the same time I will answer this..."AMNESTY which grants "illegal" immigrants release from their illegal status and confers the full benefits of citizenship on them"
The problem with this is we already tried that solution in 1986 (which I favored and lobbied for) and it failed miserably. Not only weren't the agreements and laws kept or enforced, it exacerbated the problem 20 fold. The results from that comprehensive reform tell you exactly what will happen if you allow it again.
Remember the guarantees and assurances from both 56 and 86 were lies promulgated by the same folks that tried it in 2006-7. Kennedy, et al.
Veritas: Thanks for responding. I regret my delay in getting back to you, whom I also respect for the straightforwardness of your views. I only wish we had some way of carrying on these "debates" outside the 36 hour (at best) window of opportunity when people continue to comment on a given article. Maybe we can only hope that others take up the themes that we raise in the brief dialogues we are able to have here.
As to what is "broken" in our immigration system, I adopt many of the points that George Markey has made in response to you. I had thought that Michelle Chen presented a decent bill of indictment in her article. No, the system is not "broken" for those people who are able to take advantage of a "don't ask don't tell" practice of using immigrants to provide vital jobs in an economy where there is work that "Americans won't do" (like cleaning your toilets, mowing your lawns, slaugtering your chickens), but hardly to those workers who live in constant fear that even though they don't "tell" their status (and, for example, are reluctant to report themelves as victims of crimes lest their "illegal" status will be found out), increasingly employers are being mandated to "ask" about immigration status when they employ workers. If you like a punitive system for accomplishing social goods (like the health insurance "mandates" of the just-passed health care bill), there's nothing really wrong with it. Otherwise, there's everything wrong with it and I go back to the irony of such a system in a so-called Christian nation, wondering "whom would Jesus deport?"
I notice you didn't comment on the second "prong" of the enlightened immigration system I articulated in my post: a program of development (call it a latter day Marshall Plan or whatever), for assisting the development of the local economies of Third World countries with the intent of satisfying the concerns of people outside the USA of being able to find economically sustaining (not neo-liberal slave labor) in their own countries, with less need to emigrate to places like the US and Europe where (the present recession aside) they are able to obtain that sustainable employment. See this point of view explicated at http://www.countercurrents.org/rose120208.htm
I'm hoping that your silence indicates your assent to what I regard as the single most reasonable solution to the "problem" of immigration. If you ask how can this be afforded: my response would be that some of the billions of dollars we spend on border barriers and deportation housing and transportation and the other trappings of a punitive enforcement system could be spent in ways beneficial to both the US and to those countries which furnish the bulk of our immigration. In a way it's the same solution as that which lessens the prevalence of abortion: an improvement in conditions of living for pregnant women that would make abortion "less necessary." In the same way, let's move humanely and in the interest of social solidarity with other countries and within our own country to make immigration "less necessary" rather than "more punished."
Each wants to take a snapshot of the problem without looking at the whole; that makes each correct and incorrect within a smaller circuit. Those who sympathize with the illegal immigrants seem to want to ignore the stress it puts upon community resources (i.e., government programs, housing, and school overcrowding). The businesses that profit from the cheap labor, along with other supposed benefits of cheap services and goods must be weighed against the detriments to the community including, but not limited to, the downward pressure on wages (and higher taxes for schools and social services), which shows that the presumed 'benefits' come at a much greater cost.
I would contend that that is EXACTLY where the Chamber of Commerce and other groups want to focus to be--on the plight of the poor illegals, not the exploitation of labor by their powerful contributing members.
Thus, as Veritas points out there must be an HONEST debate, not just talking points of one side or the other.
chessgames56
You are exactly correct. Wish I'd said it.
phoenix20
George Markey made not one single point about where or how our immigration system is "broken" or faulty.
He simply parroted La Raza and other business shill's talking points. For example...where in our immigration law, or any law in our country say that if an illegal alien goes home, his children or anyone else that wishes to may go with them? I know of nothing like that. So the "tearing families apart" tripe is exactly that, tripe.
"Americans won't do"
This is the biggest lie of all. Who do you think was doing these jobs before they got here? And who exactly holds the other 65-75% of those jobs right now? Americans will do the work, but they can't be expected to be working for $19.00 and hour and then do the same work for $9.00 an hour with a cut in benefits. That happened to workers in Texas in slaughter houses, chickens too.
As to deportation, I have no interest in it. None at all. Criminal illegals, yes and immediately. And there are a lot of them and more coming. Inviting, approving and helping illegal aliens hastens the day that the violence spills across our borders.
I favor jail time and stiff fines (a years pay or more) for any employer who knowingly hires illegal aliens and I would require they use E-Verify which works quite well rather that the propaganda put out by the cheap labor advocates.
You cannot mandate social outcomes. Its never worked.
"could be spent in ways beneficial to both the US and to those countries which furnish the bulk of our immigration"
No, I am absolutely opposed to taking responsibility for the citizens of another country. I am not opposed to helping any country, but they are responsible for their own citizens. We have problems of our own to solve and the expense of the illegals is a big one. They are a net deficit to the American people monetarily.
For instance, if you were speaking of just Mexicans there are far poorer countries that desperately need help far more than Mexico does.
Lastly, illegal aliens are not just Mexicans, they form the greater number in the border states, but they come in all colors and ethnicity's. We have Latino's, Mexicans, Asians, Eastern Europeans, Irish, etc. They are all stealing jobs from Americans, stealing citizenship for their children thru a quirk in our laws and forcing American citizens to support them. Hardly a group steeped in morality.
Once again, not one point about how our immigrartion system is "broken" Every single one of these illegals could immigraste here legaklly if they wanted to.
Veritas: "No, I am absolutely opposed to taking responsibility for the citizens of another country. I am not opposed to helping any country, but they are responsible for their own citizens. We have problems of our own to solve and the expense of the illegals is a big one. They are a net deficit to the American people monetarily."
You write as if the problems of different countries--monetary and otherwise---were disconnected from one another, which I don't think to be the case. There is plenty of evidence---though you'll probably call it La Raza propaganda---that immigrants represent a net gain to the American economy and, further that their wages do not "depress" the wages of American workers, as you imply in the contrast of $19 and $9 hourly wages; when did an American employer ever pay 19 bucks to an American chicken-slaughterer? Since illegal immigration is such a big American problem in your view, wouldn't the elimination of the motive for such immigration be a solution to "our" monetary problem, as well as to theirs? Sometimes when you "take care of yourself" without regard to its effects on others, you produce consequences that are detrimental to yourself as well as that of the others whom you aren't "taking care of." The Marshall Plan was, for example, a thoroughly calculated plan give to America a better standing in the postwar Cold War with the Soviet Union. That's why I invoked that model for an assistance plan for Third World development of their LOCAL economies. That leaves them to work at home at livable wages and leaves American workers to enjoy full employment in U.S.-based employment without aliens taking their jobs and/or depressing their wages. Who doesn't gain by that?
phoenix20
"that immigrants represent a net gain to the American economy"
Absolutely false and yes it is cheap labor shills that put this canard out. What they are using is Federal Taxes. By which the net effect is almost a wash. What they don't tell you is most of the cost is borne locally and paid for with State and Local taxes. I can tell you that each illegal alien costs Texans approximately $1274 per year...each year, each illegal. Its an ongoing and increasing cost.
The medical bill for illegals here, paid by Texans was a little over a billion dollars.
So while it may even be true that business experiences a net gain, American citizens, Texans, Californians in particular experience a net loss. So it depends on the "economy" you are speaking of.
Where is the evidence that they don't depress wages? In every industry they have entered you'd care to check you'll find wages are down. The numbers are quite clear.
The packing plants in West Texas were paying an average of $19.00 per hour with decent benefits when the employees were Americans. When they started hiring illegals the change was most evident. Their workforce as we speak is mostly illegal and the average wage is $9.00 an hour. Simply ask the American workers there that have lost their jobs to these folks if it depresses wages. The evidence is everywhere. If you ask someone to tell you where the evidence is that illegals don't depress wages, don't hold your breath. Its mostly like everything else they say...they just claim it, they just say it.
"Since illegal immigration is such a big American problem in your view, wouldn't the elimination of the motive for such immigration be a solution to "our" monetary problem"
You seem to think that the motive for illegal immigration resides outside our borders. That is your first mistake. The motive for illegal immigration is greater profits and less responsibility for employees which gives even greater profit. If it weren't for cheap labor and greater profits and the hope of political power our borders would snap shut tomorrow.
Did you ever wonder what happens to an illegal if they are hurt or get too old for the physical labor? Its not pretty. The people that engage in this practice are greedy animals.
WE cannot even afford to take care of our own problems, I am curious as to how you believe we can afford ton take care of other countries citizens?
Each part must be discussed by itself to make sense though.
Sioux Rose
PHOENIX: A wise, balanced, and well thought out post. I agree with you entirely.
Darn SR, I'm sure you meant to say...Veritas: "A wise, balanced, and well thought out post. I agree with you entirely."
It must have been a slip of the key! :)
Veritas: oh well, nobody's keyboard is perfect! So long for now, I'm sure this string will be abandoned by tomorrow, when I could next get back to it, but this immigration debate is gonna be a long one, and I'm sure we'll meet elsewhere along that trail. The Phoenix.
But just as a P.S., before we do have that debate again I suggest we both google the topic "immigration effects on domestic wages." I just did and, without having time to read them, got the first impression that this is a really complex and controversial matter among those economists who study the matter.
Call me strange, but shouldn't the immigration policies of our nation be a reflection of the wishes of the people? In a democracy it is the views of the citizens which deems the policy, not the views of non-citizens. Further as a Republic sovereignty lies with the citizens and immigration policy very well is a matter of the peoples sovereignty.
And lastly, as it is pointed out time and again that the folks who enter the US illegally or stay illegally after visas expire do so out of a sense of compulsion. Simply put; do they even want to be Americans?
Simply put; do they even want to be Americans?
That is an important question as well. But even if they are given a 'pathway to citizenship,' the issue of worker exploitation must be dealt with. Otherwise, it amounts to a shell game, where companies continue to game the system and take advantage.
I am disgusted!
I just moved to Arivaca. Most Americans have never heard of Arivaca, unless they are avid bird watchers. But there are thousands of Mexicans who know all about Arivaca. These are the ones being deported, over and over again until they learn how to work the system and hire 'good' coyotes, or do without them altogether. There is nothing that is going to stop the tide of illegals coming over our border. The immigration war is as fruitless as the War on Drugs, which by the way is very closely tied to illegal immigration.
I was amazed the other day when I went to the town dump and saw dozens of men, women, and children being treated like dangerous criminals by the Border Patrol, who had stopped a bus, and were 'doing their job' with much glee and relish. I was outraged several days later when I went to the parking lot of a favorite trail head to take my daily hike, and found a dozen or so Border Patrol cars and trucks and dozens of border cops with bull horns herding around at least 60 Mexican men: making them get into double lines, making them lie and sit on the rocky ground in neat rows, making them put their hands behind their heads or lie on their bellies. I love Arivaca, it's 'out of the way' of Tucson traffic and pollution, but it's a hot spot for the immigration wars. Obama has given the Border Patrol millions of extra dollars to put into effect what Bush and other neo-cons started. It's absolute madness. What it is not is the change we were promised from our dusky traitor in the White House.
George, if they can't get a job and if they can't access services and benefits, I assure you the tide will go out, then stop. There will always be a small number, always have been in the border states.
I'm curious as to how you determined there wasn't a dangerous criminal among them?
it's not easy trying to corral chaos with words....my bias is against the knee jerk punishment paradigm that pollutes the amerikan mind....every thing is zero tolerance bs....the terrorists need to be taught a lesson with shock and awe; drug pushers, of that scourge marijuana, need long incarcerations; children who bring a toy gun to school need to be expelled...WE NEED TO SEND A MESSAGE!!!!!.....only the real message is that the HIVE will not be messed with!!!!!...we are the amerikan killer bees...