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McChrystal's 'Ground Truth': Need Half a Million Boots on the Ground
Journalist Andrea Mitchell has noted that General McChrystal's report to President Obama calls for 500,000 troops in Afghanistan. [That's not 500,000 U.S. troops, but 500,000 troops overall.] Mitchell correctly notes that if you don't believe that the goals in McChrystal's report for increasing the size of the Afghan army are realistic, that should lead you to question agreeing to send more U.S. troops, because the premise of the request for more troops is that if you add more U.S. troops there's going to be "success," and that success, apparently, requires 500,000 boots on the ground. If you don't believe there's going to be success even if you add more U.S. troops, then you shouldn't add more U.S. troops - you should do something else.
McChrystal has suggested that without more U.S. troops we will "fail" - but the same logic says that without more Afghan troops we will also "fail." If adding the additional U.S. troops will not lead to the required addition of Afghan troops, then U.S. policy will "fail," even with the additional U.S. troops.
Some have dismissed the concern occasioned by Mitchell's comments by saying of course there aren't going to be half a million U.S. troops in Afghanistan. It's certainly true that there aren't going to be half a million U.S. troops in Afghanistan. But supporters of sending more troops have to answer this: to defend sending another 40,000 U.S. troops to Afghanistan, they have to defend their scenario that there's going to be 350,000 Afghan boots on the ground. Otherwise - according to General McChrystal - their plan is not going to work. Furthermore, they should say now what they will propose then if adding 40,000 more U.S. troops does not produce 350,000 Afghan troops. Do they promise not to ask for more U.S. troops? Would anyone believe such a promise?
Those who fear a slippery slope don't have to point to a hypothetical future. If you look at the debate happening in Washington, it's clear that we're already on the slippery slope. It's already being argued that it's "too late" to revisit the decisions that President Obama made earlier this year - under pressure from the military. We're committed, they say. Can we trust supporters of military escalation not to argue in six months that "now we're really committed"?
They wanted a surge; they got a surge. Their surge didn't work. In particular, dramatically increasing the deployment of foreign troops did not establish security for the Afghan election. Now they want another surge. How many surges must they get, before we can try something else - like, for example, dramatically pruning our list of enemies, as we did in Iraq, and talking about a timetable for military withdrawal, as we did in Iraq?
Andrea Mitchell:
And the other big issue, of course, that's on everyone's mind, not discussed so overtly, is Afghanistan. And, with the leaks that have come, most likely from the military, about the troop strengths and all this, you have to really wonder, what would people expect? The numbers are really pretty horrifying. What they say, embedded in this report by McChrystal, is they would need 500,000 troops - boots on the ground - and five years to do the job. No one expects that the Afghan Army could step up to that. Are we gonna put even half that of U.S. troops there, and NATO forces? No way.So, you have to ask, would you prefer to have a president who doesn't shift strategy when he gets this kind of 'ground truth' from the commanders? Would you like to be locked in, to 8 years, 10 years of this? I mean, I think that those are some reasonable questions before everyone says Barack Obama's shifting position.
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14 Comments so far
Show AllFive more today! We're in the Big Muddy, to borrow Seeger's Vietnam-era folk song. Knee-deep, waist-deep, neck-deep, the Captain (Obama) tells us to keep going in. Blogged on this topic at www.jbpeebles.blogspot.com.
Didn't drink the Obama kool-aid then, and I certainly won't now. We need a sane and responsible policy in Afghanistan, not one that's been proven to lack results.
First, we haven't explored Taliban's role in 9/11. Did they host al Qaeda willingly, or did they attempt twice to give us bin Laden? How much is the pipeline from Central Asia involved in our strategy? Is it only a coincidence that our occupation appears to take decades to win just as a long-planned pipeline gets constructed? And what about Karzai, our guy, who is a former Unocal executive whose regime grows more unpopular by the day?
We're competing with strategic economic rivals. That's why the occupation won't end--we have too much at stake economically. The military industrial complex is also making out like bandits. A successful policy would make us leave and they won't have that. Obama needs to grow some balls and confront this foolish policy and those who are urging failure forward.
For 3,000 years of recorded Military History of the Afghanistan Region; NO...NADA...Foreign Invader has ever conquerored these tough/rugged mountain tribesmen.
Thanks to our CIA, they have new-modern weaponry....lethal explosives, compact missles, and rapid fire small arms.
Give General McChrystal two or three hundred thousand more "boots on the ground"; and we can expect 300% to 400% more dead troopers. McChrystal will be giving these guerrillas massive human targets to kill.
Fire Adm. Mullens and Gen McChrystal.......hire a new "Command Team" to plan and execute "outside the box".
Pull back the "boots on the ground",,,,,,,Implement PLAN B.
The time/tipping point is now.....the Spring of 2010.
Go with PLAN B, and wrap-up Afghanistan in 6 to 8 months.
/
You want a half million boots on the ground in Afghanistan?
Piece of cake ...
Assemble 250,000 Afghans, then parachute Bush and Cheney into the middle of them. In moments you'll have your 500,000 boots, sandals, loafers and every other manner of footwear.
For all those who hate John F Kennedy even after James Douglass' "JFK and the Unspeakable' came out, I'll just say this, after the Bay of Pigs disaster, Jack Kennedy said, "It could have been worse, it could have succeeded." Now deal with that! If he was such a hard line Cold Warrior, why would he say that?" I know he was just a sneaky Irishman. Yeah, you "really got me there." That's right in there with the "tea baggers" reasoning, oxymoron that that is.
AD
Can you say ,"Draft kids to fight the Afghan menace" or will they will enlist in droves just for the Hash? Gee I did not know that any Afghans were involved in 9/11 .I thought it was all Saudis.Wait isn't Osama Bin Laden part of that family in business with Bush family interests?Isn't Osama a former C.I.A. employee like Manuel Noriega.
I think the Pentagon needs to consult with Al-Qaeda on cost benefit analysis.Can we destroy the opposition with ....no budget, and box cutters? Got to be a way to control the world on the cheap.Generally Mr. McChrystal's truth is too much truth to digest.I believe he may need to retire.The folks who need "pipelineistan and opium eradicationistan" don't want anyone to know what it will cost in "Blood and treasure".The Taliban had Opium production way down (granted with our encouragement ),they did better than us in that regard .If this war is about geopolitical global resourse dominance as I feel it is we are wasting so much in our attempt to project an image of good will. lets go home ,in peace!
Talk is cheep--Actions speak louder than words--Ask yourself besides writing all your great inspiring words--what are you going to do to change this country????The answers you find will reveal much about how really committed you are to the actual changes you believe in. Good luck and may the force of truth be with you.
Onecaptjim, hello, always read and dig your posts.
your words are true here, I wonder myself
though what form effective protest might
take? effective meaning will cause change,
facing off w/ cops seems ineffectual,
right mission, wrong tactic......
Any thoughts on what would work?
joe.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/25/marines.breast.cancer.folo/index.html
==========
Poisoned patriots? Stricken Marines seek help with illnesses
* Story Highlights
* Marines, Camp Lejeune residents seek $34 billion in compensation for health woes
* They allege drinking water at the base was contaminated in 1960s through 1980s
* Experts in 1980 concluded some base tap water was "highly contaminated"
* VA won't cover costs of illness; "I feel like I've been betrayed," ex-drill instructor says
===================
Don't these americans realize that their "patriotism" is always used AGAINST THEM by the Military/industrial complex to have more BODIES for WAR for,of, and by the Rich?
How outrageous that our President, our members of Congress, our Generals cloned at the hip to defense contractors, investors, manufacturers sit around discussing adding 500,000 soldiers to the U.S. troop contingents in Afghanistan already there.
Do you know why we are in Afghanistan? Anybody? Have you heard any truly lucid, up-front reasons from any of the above?
Let's fast forward decades hence, with China and India the most prosperous, modern, high-tech societies on earth with China superior in military might and technology. Allied with them are Russia and a variety of Asian and Mid-eastern countries and perhaps some South American countries.
The U.S. has long since collapsed, with its corporate billionaires, having allegiance to no one in particular. Their allegiance always has been and remains to money and profits. They are still happily jetting back and forth among their many residential estates and bargaining with China, India, whomever, and hob-nobbing with the new corporate billionaires of these now very prosperous countries.
But the poor slobs of the U.S. living in conditions worse than the Great Depression of the '30's and trying to preserve remnants of their particular religious cultures and area cultures and just survive amidst the rubble that used to be their cities and their major towns, are now hearing through whatever media is left, including short-wave radio, that China and India and their allies are deciding whether it would be wise to add several million troops to particular areas of the U.S. to keep things in line and to help the U.S. citizens re-achieve FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY after their totally corrupted government collapsed and sank like a stone.
In the interests of keeping a lid on uprisings and violence, China has assisted in keeping a U.S. puppet government intact and visible, with members still living and meeting in Washington D.C. to mollify the people of the country so a goodly percentage of them can believe and insist that nothing has really changed. For the rest, the usual propaganda is that soon life will return to "normal." The puppets are well-compensated by the Corporations located in China, India and other Asian countries. The important thing is to constantly reinforce the mirage of the viability of the United States of America and eventually all will be well.
Outrageous? Maybe.
But the point is that, for centuries, the Western, Christian, White powers took it as their right to invade, conquer, exterminate, exploit, govern, set up and destroy puppet governments, destroy legitimate governments, and etcetera, all over the world.
Essentially ignorant of and disdainful of other cultures, religions and ways of life, all that was seen by these W/C/W powers was booty and territory to gain. To enhance and protect their own lives and frequently oppressed people, Jews with an understanding of the power of education and equally or more importantly, money and the intricacies of how to make it work for one's own and one's family's benefit, became the backers and the lenders to those who otherwise might turn on them in a minute.
Over-all, however, what a dismal, arrogant, unimaginative, limited, cruel vision of and for all of humanity these patterns and choices have brought into being.
And obviously, discussions about 50,000 and perhaps eventually 500,000 more troops to send to Afghanistan for the purpose of: ????? is absolutely more of the same and NUTZ as the people of the U.S. and their lives begin to go down the tubes, and their plight really does not seem to be much of a consideration to the powers that be.
I do hope and pray that these years we are living are the cold-water-in-the-face times we need to reassess and change for the better.
On CNN, Thursday night, with Wolf Blitzer and then Larry King, which I watched at a friend's house [no TV at mine so my viewing is occasional], documentarian film-maker Michael Moore in an exchange with Blitzer and Venezuela's Hugo Chavez
with King showed themselves to be men of substance, with much kinder and compassionate and intelligent visions for the people of the world, admittedly based on simple religious teachings that have been around for a very, very long time.
Blitzer blustered and kept trying to nail Michael Moore; Larry King, for the most part, kept his mouth shut with Hugo Chavez, which was the smarter choice. Both Moore and Chavez have the courage of some very good convictions and are very clear in stating them.
What they said and what they stand for are certainly superior principles to how many countries can we conquer today and how many troops do we need to accomplish that?
If the Powers That Be won't change, those of us who have our heads on straight and our hearts in the right place, must. Our own actions and our own adjusted/modified life styles must speak to that change and bring it about.
The future is really in our hands and not in Washington D.C. et al. Let us learn to rely on our best selves and the best selves of our friends and neigbors, right where we are standing, and not on the screwy, limited gumbahs who purport to lead us with their convoluted, ineffective policies, ... and unfortunately, both leaders and policies lead us mostly astray.
peace, cm
Sioux Rose
CEE MIRACLES: Thank you for sharing this thought-provoking post.
What an AMAZING , Excellent commentary!
"Let's fast forward decades hence, with China and India the most prosperous, modern, high-tech societies on earth with China superior in military might and technology. Allied with them are Russia and a variety of Asian and Mid-eastern countries and perhaps some South American countries.
The U.S. has long since collapsed, with its corporate billionaires, having allegiance to no one in particular. Their allegiance always has been and remains to money and profits. They are still happily jetting back and forth among their many residential estates and bargaining with China, India, whomever, and hob-nobbing with the new corporate billionaires of these now very prosperous countries."
A pipe dream on your part.
Not everyone in the world is going to be allied together, with the exception of the US. Especially in the event of your projected collapse of the US, one big reason for countries that are otherwise rivals to ally together would be removed.
Not to mention that China has territorial disputes with pretty much every other East Asian country.
"Outrageous? Maybe."
No not outrageous. Your spiel is very similar to the kind of racist scare tactics beloved by the right wing. OMG !!!!11!! The Asians are coming. Soon, the Asians will reduce the US citizens to living in conditions that are worse than compared to those of the Great Depression.
The Yellow Chinese are coming !!!11!!!
After thirty years of Bush and Cheney, Clinton, Bush Sr. and Ronnie Raygun this new administration is still trying to sell us on an eight year old war and supply side economics! Wake up folks, you can't just vote for change and then go back to watching the same politicians and the same talking heads on TV and expect anything to change. When you do that you end up with the likes of the birthers and death panelists. Our biggest problem in this country is that we have allowed stupid to become exceptable. So many americans today remind me of the old Steppenwolf song, The Ostrich,
"We'll just stick our heads into the sand, and just pretend that all is grand". Well good luck to us all!
Half a million boots in the ground, not on the ground.
Afghanistan is like Vietnam in this sense: no one in this country, and certainly not in our homicidal and idiotic so-called government, has any understanding of the country or its culture. No understanding whatsoever. This is simply about the psychosis of power and watching the dead horse of the United States beat itself.