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TechnoratiIsrael Has Right to Hit Iran: Biden
Israeli officials have welcomed comments by US Vice-President Joe Biden that America would not stand in the way of an Israeli strike against Iranian nuclear plants.
![[File photo shows X-band radars (L) installed by the United States at a military facility in Israel's Negev desert. In 2008, the US agreed to install a radar system in Israel to counter a perceived missile threat from Iran. US Vice President Joe Biden said in an interview broadcast that the United States would not stand in the way of Israel in its dealings with Iran's nuclear ambitions. (AFP/File/David Buimovitch)]](http://www.commondreams.org/files/article_images/biden_israel_iran.jpg "biden_israel_iran.jpg")
Mr
Biden contradicted his country's most senior military commander,
Admiral Mike Mullen, when he responded, three times, to questions on
the American ABC's This Week program that Israel was free to do what it needed to do.
"If the Netanyahu Government decides to take a course of action different than the one being pursued now, that is their sovereign right to do that. That is not our choice," Mr Biden said.
Israeli officials have read the comments as a sign the US is preparing a "plan B" in the event that its proposed dialogue with Iran fails to rein in Tehran's uranium enrichment program.
Speaking in Tokyo, Alaeddin Broujerdi, the head of Iran's parliamentary committee on national security and foreign policy, said Iran was ready to take decisive action if Israel attacked its nuclear operations.
"Both the US and Israel are aware of the consequence of an erroneous decision," Mr Broujerdi said. "I believe our response will be real and decisive."
President Barack Obama told Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in May that he expected to know by the end of the year whether Iran was making "a good-faith effort to resolve differences" in ending its nuclear program, signalling that his willingness to engage in diplomacy over the issue had limits.
Israel reportedly gave serious thought to a pre-emptive strike against Iran's Natanz nuclear complex last year but was told by then US president George Bush that the US would not support such a move.
Officials in Jerusalem were not surprised by Mr Biden's comments, saying that while the Obama Administration might not have given the green light to an Israeli attack against Iran, it was not withholding approval.
"There are secret understandings between Israel and the Obama Administration as to the options that Israel has regarding Iran," said one political source quoted by the newspaper Israel Today.
The newspaper quoted sources in Mr Netanyahu's office as saying that "the fact that Biden is talking about Israel's right to attack Iran, and at the same time fewer statements are being made on settlements, shows that Mr Netanyahu is succeeding, slowly and determinedly, in persuading the Americans of the justice of his Government's policy".
The liberal Israeli daily Haaretz said Israel now believed the US was considering more punitive action against Iran, such as tighter sanctions, but still wanted to give dialogue a chance of succeeding.
Mr Biden's comments appeared at odds with those of Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Admiral Mullen, who seemed to warn against an Israeli strike on Iran in appearances on CBS' Face the Nation and Fox News Sunday. "I worry about it being very destabilising, not just in and of itself, but the unintended consequences of a strike like that," Admiral Mullen told CBS.
101 Comments so far
Show AllBidens words should give pause to those who insist, vis a vis the Mideast conflict, that the Israel-U.S. relationship is that of the tail wagging the dog, because he couldn't have put it any clearer that if Israel attacks Iran, it'll be with our government's blessing, albeit, with enough ambiguity thrown in so as to give Uncle Sam beaucoup plausible denial. That way, following an Israeli attack on Iran, when the Arab/Islamic world erupts, the Obama administration will be able to say 'We advised the Jewish state not to attack but they wouldn't listen', thereby taking the heat off of Uncle Sam, while setting up Jews everywhere for scapegoating. And thus might Zionism, a movement for so-called Jewish National liberation, end up devouring its own, just as it did during World War II when it blocked thousands of East European Jews from obtaining sanctuary in the West, tantamount, as it turned out, to saying it's either Palestine or the gas chambers.
Oh,goody. Joe wants his country to support another pre-emptive war, only this time a war by Israel. I guess that's what any good Zionist would want, eh, Joe?
We were warned that you had a habit of putting your foot in your mouth; would you now do us a big favor? Insert the foot far enough so that it can't be removed, thus saving the world from any more of your inane comments about Israel.
Why on Earth are we talking about whether or not Israel is going to attack Iran, which in all likelihood would begin WWIII, when there are much more important issues to talk about, such as this feckless, inane Michael Jackson ceremony, that is being covered by a very reticent, and complicit corporate media? The very same people who sold us thes two illegal and horrid wars in both Afghanistan and Iraq, and quite possibly Pakistan? Afpak!
What the F' is wrong with the American (sheople) people? Anyone?
I do hope you see where I'm going with this. I think you do.
America, you've been duped-punked! Such dopes!
If Israel is actually stupid enough to attack Iran, I hope the population of the US understands that act would lead to the immediate and catastrophic implosion of the Middle East oil trade, which would in turn, utterly collapse the world economy, rendering the US and the rest of the West third world nations overnight.
Walk in peace.
On sites like this we rant about the "betrayal" of the Democrats of their "constituents". Even though we all know it if we think about it, the Democratic "Party" exists solely to corral all progressives into a powerless cul-de-sac. We are about 30% of the electorate, and in any other country would have our own party and be a powerful force, but in the US it is virtually impossible to break away from the Democratic "Party".(I put that in quotes because it is not really a party in the sense that it has dues paying members who elect the leadership.) The corruption of corporate money combined with the winner-take-all system guarantees the failure of any third party success. However, a good start would be for us to fight first for realistic public financing of our elections. Each voter should be issued vouchers to use for the candidates he/she supports. There are good plans out there to accomplish this.
Joe Biden is the corrupt remainderment of a life poorly lived.
According to the State Department, Biden's comment wasn't a "green light" for Israel to attack Iran:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1098211.html
I recall seeing some research according to which Israel only has a limited real capability to strike Iran, so any hypothetical war between Israel and Iran might not follow the model of Israel's attack on Iraq's reactor:
http://csis.org/files/media/csis/pubs/090316_israelistrikeiran.pdf
The question Biden evaded was key-would the US allow Israeli Jets to overfly Iraq? We don't, the attack is almost impossible for Israel. We do, Iran correctly views the attack as joint Israeli/US and responds accordingly.
Munich. Russia would not shoot Israeli jets out of the sky, but they'd provide heads up intel they were inbound. Iran would have a couple hours to prepare. Russian workers are in the target zones, Natanz et al.
Russia would not allow an air-strike to escalate. And/but when the dust settled they would sell Iran the anti-aircraft radar and missile system they held off on and one whole lot more.
It's a war crime even to threaten to attack another state, according to international law. I believe signatories to the Geneva Conventions are held to that standard.
Consequently, Biden's statement is a crime - literally.
I've never had any doubts about Obama being a corporate shill and a warmonger. Still, it's kind of tough to see that his administration has got the same criminal mentality of the Bushites. At least we knew from the Downing Street Memos that Bush tried to fake reasons for war, unlike the Obama administration, which talks openly about assaulting countries without pretext.
Yep, and some people still smoking the hope dope are saying, "Well, at least we didn't get McCain-Palin." Other dope-heads are telling themselves that Biden is just practicing smart politics, or some sort of crap like that. It's more complicated than just mere thuggery, they whine.
Well, no, it's not. Time to wake up. This is your party at work. It's ugly, and it reflects you. Get off you ass and start thinking this through. I have to live in your world. You vote for these assholes. Why do you do it?
-TIA
The American People are mostly unprepared to reason sensibly about foreign policy. The propaganda machine has kept them diverted. It is up to the few to make a loud enough noise to get attention. My scathing email went to Biden earlier today, plus, I did not vote for Obama/Biden. I saw through them too. The heavy lifting is everpresent. It does not end unless one walks away from it.
Thoughts_Into_Action July "Obama administration, which talks openly about assaulting countries without pretext."
Calling for wiping others off the map (or erase from the pages of History according to different translations)
+ Calling for the death of another country.
+ Spending billions on terrorist organization who commit religious based war crimes.
+ Developing nuclear capability.
- Could be considered a pretext.
"+ Developing nuclear capability.
- Could be considered a pretext."
Has any Israeli stated that nuclear weapons are forbidden? Khamenei has repeated several times, publicly, that nuclear weapons themselves, are haram under Islam. Something that people like you, and the "bomb bomb bomb" crowd conveniently want to ignore.
This was reported in Associated Content (January 07, 2009):
During Israel's 12-day assault into the Palestinian Gaza Strip, in response to rockets fired by the Palestinian militants in Hamas, here is the reported death toll as Thursday dawns in the Middle East.
-Palestinians: More than 700 dead in Gaza, virtually all civilians.
+Israel: Precisely 6 dead, including 4 civilians maimed by the Hamas rockets and two soldiers who have joined the Gaza assault.
Iran has the right to make a preemptive strike against those state entities apparently conspiring to attack Iran.
Several years ago, when the minions of der Bush were starting to push for a nuclear attack on Iran, I wrote an article at the request of globalresearch.ca, as I am a nuclear veteran and have seen this stuff at first hand.
Nuclear Bunker Buster Bombs against Iran: This Way Lies Madness
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2093
If this atrocity is committed, either by the Israelis or the American Empire, the catastrophe for the world will be enormous and irretrievable. Please take a few minutes and read it. The chicken hawks in DC and the anal sphincters in Tel Aviv have no idea as to what they are unleashing, even if there is no counterattack.
I do not know the science behind it but it was suggested that Israel would use Nukes, claim they conventional bombs and then blame any fallout on Iranian Nuclear research. They would claim they used one of those massive fuel air mombs the US was testing.
Is this possible or will a tactical nuke be easily distinguished from a Conventional explosive?
Thanks minitrue I read the article with interest. There are lots of links to check out too. Well done.
We'd better hope nobody shoots Obama.
Though I oppose any more military action that could cause yet aother endless war, or worse, a war with a nuclear ending in the middle east, I believe that Irans leaders should try to open a new global dialogue that embraces peace and compromise.
Lets face facts, all the waring countrys in the world always have people that will jump to war or ask for peace and diplomacy.
These days , war is the solution, and intellectual diplomacy is not possible.
So when the far right christian lunatics are willing to believe that the end days are on our door step, why would they try to force thier elected republican representatives to ask the USA to stop Isreal from a premtive attack on Iran.
I mean , the moral crowd in this country, right wing christian republicans, should be speaking out about the evils of war, but they never do. Its nnot surprising to hear the immoral left wing democrates ask for war or , gay marraige , or socialized health care.
600000 dead in Iraq, because of the occupation.
When I asked a bible thumping christian this weekend if he new that, he said the war was just and that he did not care about the death total.He does not have a clue.
But not to worry, he was going to church Sunday morning because it always makes his week so much better when he has a clean conscious.
The far right and their extremeism makes us less safe every day.
BornFreemen
Gang stalking torture victim of extreme right wing christian domestic terrorists.24/7 torture every day for the last 2.7 years and running.And until some one tells me different, from what I have seen and wittnessed personally, they are nation wide and being dirceted by the IAFF and get thier marching orders from the DHS.
More like close to 2 million dead in Iraq. And I couldn't give a $hit about our, ahem 'boys and girls' who's over there. Defending empire...that's all they're doing. May the freedom fighters have success in showing them whose country it is.
Considering that:
1. Virtually all of the threatening bellicose talk has come from Israel and is directed at Iran.
2. Iran has no nuclear weapons.
3. Israel does have nuclear weapons - possibly as many as 300.
Then surely, Biden should be able to unambiguously defend the right of Iran to attack Israel's nucleal facilities, right?
If Isreal does attack Iran, of course with the consent from their friends in America, then Russia would no doubt join into the mix?
Such a foolish attack on Iran is so sucidal. Iran would most likley attempt to close the Strait of Hormuz where all of that black gold travels through http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/World_Oil_Transit_Chokepoints/Hormuz.html
Within days, the American sheople and many parts of the globe could be without fuel. The economy would eventually grind to a halt.
So when is the last time Iran attacked anyone?
Please Joe, tell us it ain't so?
Typical.
Forget Zionism in this: Biden's motive is as antisemitic as it is Zionist. The US is strung between the eastern border of Jordan to the top of the Indian subcontinent trying to establish military dominance of hydrocarbon resources to extend and reinforce hegemony.
Does that sound like a country the size of Orange County, CA and without oil forms the center of policy decision?
Biden is jockeying to lever US military force against Iran - probably not tomorrow or the next day, but whenever what he must see as "gains in the area" have been consolidated.
If the US strikes Iran to shut down a potential nuclear device, the Demoplicans will have vaporized the rest of the 2006 advantage over the Republicrats.
Moreover, the economic State of the Onion will be fried.
So - noodge, noodge - let's get the Israeli's to do it. What are we paying those boys for, eh? After all, a lot of people will figure they did it because their grannies were traumatized by the holocaust (alright, not mutually exclusive) or because they're Jewish.
Now, I've got to say that sounds a lot more antisemitic to me than saying the Israelis should quit settling other people's land.
Check this out from today's edition of Anti-war.com:
"US defense officials, including Defense Secretary Robert Gates, have warned that a military attack on Iran, whether by the US or Israel, would be blamed on the U.S. and would create a 'disastrous backlash.'"
http://news.antiwar.com/2009/07/05/biden-israel-entitled-to-attack-iran/
Seems that not only Mike Mullen but Defense Secretary Gates is speaking out against an Israeli attack. I take this as the typical Obama administration style of different mouthpieces for different sides of an issue so that the boss can do his usual bit of talking from both sides of his mouth and not take any public responsibility for responding to public concern about either position. If Bush was the "decider" (a bad one), Obama is the "pragmatic" one who will let events decide his actions, making it easy for entities like Israel to create "facts on the ground" which will determine which side of his mouth drives his action, giving them a really strong tail to wag the U.S. dog.
It equally possible all the bellicose talk is to try and force Iran to act so that they can claim a Casus Belli.
That or they set up one of their infamous Black flag operations wherein a third party is attacked (and or Israel itself) Israel thus claiming it proof of how mad the regime in Iran is.
There has been a LOT of efforts on the part of the United States of America into provoking Iran over the past years.
It interesting that when Iran announced it was negotiating with Russia to install the advanced SA300 air defense system, Israel claimed it was provocation and a threat to Israles "right to exist".
Yeah, and I've never bought that 'right to exist' bullshit continuously flowing from their mouths. They do EXIST...quit with pretending like you could be eradicated at any moment when you know full well that won't happen as long as you have 200 nukes by your side. I hate Israel and Israelis. I can say that bec`ause everytime Isra-Hell goes to war to defend it's "right to exist", the Israeli publice polls show support of some greater than 85-95%. They are behind all that death, chaos, destruction and aggressive illegal tactics ALL THE WAY. Israel like the United Staes should NOT exist...not for humanities sake.
That the public isn't buying into Biden's soundbite makes me wonder if all that anti-Iran propaganda has worked. I don't think it has. Biden is talking out of his primary orifice, but no one seems to be applauding.
Time for another "attack" to bend the US public into a Zionist shape?
there goes joe again.in baseball they say its manny being manny. but this is the v,p.
of the good ol us of a. who does he think he is- dick cheney?its the credit card senator
with his mouth in gear but his brain in park again. this guy will NEVER BE the president
because of irresponsible remarks like this one.
maybe joe could get a show on fox they love red meat goober stuff like this. oh and
F--K ISRAEL! ZIONIST MANIACS!
This is where we find ourselves in America today.
By providing most of the big campaign donations, and by having one of the most powerful lobbies (AIPAC) on Capitol Hill, Israel and liberal wealthy American Jews have taken over this country, lock stock and barrel. Jews have managed to stifle any constructive dialog about the US-Israel relationships. How? By labeling anyone that dares to criticize Israel....wait for it...an ANTI-SEMITE!!!!!.Oh, noooooooooo, not the dreaded A, S,words...NNNNOOOOOOOOO!!! And anyone that has lived in America for more than a week knows that you would rather be labeled a child molester than be called a ANTI-SEMITE!
I am always amazed at how, without pulling a single trigger, and without dropping a single bomb, a tiny "sovereign" country with a tiny population could over take over America, a country with over 300 million people, and without most American's even realizing it. The proof that we have been commandeered? Israel and the Neocons (most of whom are Jewish) convinced the US to go to war against another "sovereign" county..IRAQ. Under the false pretense that they were a threat to the U.S.A., weapons of MD, all that bullshit was shoved down the throats of Americans so that they would feel threatened and ok the war. The only country that was threatened by IRAQ was Israel, and even if they were stupid enough to drop a nuke, they would have assured the eradication of IRAQ off the map. What leader would be stupid enough to take that risk? And why is it ok for Israel to have Nukes? they are the most aggressive country in the entire region, and still are in violation of close to 40 UN resolutions demanding their withdrawal from OCCUPIED TERRITORIES!!! IRAQ invaded Kuwait using the same arguments for their occupation that Israel used for theirs. Israel still occupies and we all know what happened to Iraq. More double standards, more hypocrisy. I recently took a vacation to Europe and I was astounded at how angry the rest of the world is at America for the "at all costs" mentality that America has regarding its relationship with Israel. They simply cannot understand how America, with its rich history of democracy and freedom, would continue to support a rogue nation that has, and continues to treat the Palestinian people like dogs and animals. And then gives the rest of the world the middle finger because hey, fuck you, we have the support of America...no matter what you think or say.
we need to discontinue our support of Israel, and the sooner the better. We have sacrificed thousands of some of the finest young people to fight a war for Israel. If that is not the ultimate proof that Israel controls this country, nothing will. It is time to take our country back...Iv'e had enough and I know you have too. email me your support, let's do what they do..start a movement.
The only way to the White House is taking a knee to the Israel Lobby.
Obama took it and Biden took it years ago.
After that what more do you want to know?
Republicans were the problem.
Democrats are the solution.
I have a rifle in my closet that can shoot a mile. Does that give everyone within a mile radius of me a right to attack me without provocation?
The whole Iran/Israel mess is based on an extrapolation of a misquote. Ahmadinejad has never said that he WOULD wipe Israel off the face of the earth. He said they SHOULD be wiped off the map.
When asked about the comment later, he stated that the Jewish state of Israel was formed because of the holocaust, which he does not believe happened. Therefore, the maps should be restored to pre-1947 status.
Hardly sounds like a virulent threat when he puts it that way, does it? Unless you deem denying the holocaust as an act of aggression, there's not a whole lot there.
Biden needs to shut the hell up. Giving the green light for any country to attack another puts us in the position of provocateur. No matter what "the threat level", the country that actually attacks first is in the wrong.
Actually, Ahmadenijad said nothing of the sort.
1. He never said anything about any country getting "wiped off the map"; nothing close to such an expression exists in Farsi. What he said was a quote from Khomeni - that some day, the "regime occupying Jerusalem" would some day be resigned to the pages of history in the same manner as the Soviet Union is now resigned to history.
2. He never said he believed the Nazi Holocaust didn't happen. He questioned why there is such hyped-up mythology around the event, and questioned why those who question even minor details about the event are attacked. He also questioned why, if Germany was responsible for the Holocaust that justifies the State of Israel, why were the Palestinians, and not the Germans, forced to give up their land for a Jewish state.
Deepa
Does any country in the world, including Iran, have a right to hit and destroy nuclear facilities in Israel?
What an EXCELLENT question! So as long as the media is in a fervor with regards to Israel attacking Iran/US allowing it/World community encouraging it, why hasn't this million dollar question been asked? If Israel has the right to defend it's "sovereignty" does other nations have the right to defend theirs?
This is classic Double-Speak; It is Okay for Sovereign Israel to "Defend" itself and Attack a Nation (even though Iran has done nothing) But it is not okay for Iran or North Korea, to want to defend themselves. It is only okay for America and Israel to "defend" against "terrorists" - But unless we (our Government that is) gives the Okay, then it is NOT okay for Sovereign Nations to defend themselves.
Zionist Israel is going to start WWIII - remember that folks, it is going to happen if they strike Iran.
What we NEED to do is STOP funding Zionist Israel's WAR Machine - STOP giving Zionist Israel Weapons of Mass Destruction.
We also NEED to STOP being the Bullies of the World. We are NOT the POLICE of the World!
We can NOT even take care of Our own Country, never mind the world.
We NEED to Impeach Obama - Or at least start preparing for a 2012 American Revolution
Ron Paul for President 2012!!!
Where the hell were you when many of us DEMANDED that you not fall for Obummer's propaganda / bullshitting and put someone else in the white house unbeholden to the two-party / corporate / zionist / anti-poor monopoly???? Where the hell were you???!!
Where are the defenders of the Duopoly for Biden? How exactly is Obama's foreign policy better than Bush? Or is Obama/Biden even worse?
The Bush regime reportedly stopped Israel from attacking; now a DEMOCRAT is giving the green light? If I did not know better I would say the Democrats are slightly worse warmongers and hypocrites than the other faction of the Ruling Countryclub hypocrites.
Time to wake up and smell the Duopoly for what it is... a lying stinking pile of...
Why, you've completely misstated Biden's remarks!
The present maladministration isn't giving Israel the green light-- on the contrary, it's just NOT-giving Israel the RED light!
It's a form of culpable deniability. Don'tcha SEE?
· Yr Obd't Servant
Quite right OS, I was asking rhetorical questions trying to get a reaction; these Obama-ites are just so much more sophisticated than the knuckle-dragger Bush-ites. (thus can be treated as more dangerous, if that is possible)
Biden has been a Zionest mouthpiece for a long time. That's why he was appointed VP.
Once again Joe Biden's reputation as a loose cannon comes to the forefront. Better, the old saying goes, that he'd kept his mouth shut and we only thought him a fool, then to keep opening it over and over and prove it to everybody.
Biden has become the (gasp!) Sarah Palin of the democratic party.
"Biden has become the (gasp!) Sarah Palin of the democratic party."
That was GREAT!
One problem with your theory, for Biden to be a "loose cannon" he would have to communicate something that isn't already the official policy of US government. Have you ever read Obama's AIPAC speech?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91150432
"There is no greater threat to Israel — or to the peace and stability of the region — than Iran."
"The danger from Iran is grave, it is real, and my goal will be to eliminate this threat. "
"Finally, let there be no doubt: I will always keep the threat of military action on the table to defend our security and our ally Israel."
"There is no greater threat to Israel — or to the peace and stability of the region — than Iran."
Move over Iran, you've got competition! If Biden doesn't shut the fuck up, you can substitute 80% of the American people for Iran. Israel and their money goons are in deep shit. People are tired of that whiny, squeeky, nuclear bomb laden, rabid mouse ruining it for everybody in the middle east and the US.
Somewhere in the bible it says that Israel would be a stumbling block for all the nations. Well, that prophecy has certainly come true.
Not to be too argumentative, but being a loose cannon doesn't require the revelation of something that isn't official policy, only that one reveals something imprudent to publically admit - often something that IS official policy. You make my point with your list of Biden's quotes, and the reference to Obama's AIPAC speech.
To keep up the pretense of a 'balanced approach' to the situation in the middle-east, the Obamaniacs would probably prefer that such statements as Biden's not constantly remind the public of their hypocrisy.
I see what you mean.
After all, it's not like Obama (or his supporters) are widely publicizing his AIPAC speech.
But on the other hand, I've always had the suspicion that Biden was picked specifically to placate Zionists who were uncomfortable with Obama's presidency. So another theory is that Obama is using Biden to deliver a "controversial" message on his behalf to the Israel lobby.
I agree that Obama wants to maintain the illusion of a 'balanced approach', but Iran is so demonized (even on the left) that it probably doesn't matter. The moment after Israel bombs Iran, Obama will call a press conference and "urge both sides to show restraint and avoid retaliation". Then he'll have to say exactly what Biden did, that Israel has the right to "protect" itself.
Good point hopedup;
here is the link to the AIPAC speech:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91150432
Israel Has Right to Hit Iran because Israel has nukes and Iran doesn't? Nor did Iraq.
I thought that our AIPAC controlled government promised to 'protect' Israel should anybody actually shoot back. This may well drag the Pentagram into a fourth muddled Eastern quagmire and shut the Straits of Hormuz as well. That should really help the world recover from Bush's depression.
100 per cent insanity even to contemplate using nuclear weapons.
Today's nuclear bombs far outstrip the devastating power of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs.
A nuclear exchange will lead to nuclear winter across the earth, and that's all, folks.
This is a reflection of that wonderful Bush Doctrine: If the leadership of one country thinks the leadership of another country doesn't like them, that gives license for "preventive war." Bombs away!!!
100 per cent insanity, with infantile, egotistical, and quite a few clinically paranoid minds in control of very dangerous toys, but none seems to understand the half of it.
Never has there ever been such a collection of Crazies all on the same page with the greatest collection of spineless or rabid imbeciles surrounding them.
Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen: 1 year? ... 2? ... 3? ... 4? ... 5 ????
" ... and the children shall cry to the very rocks ... "
100 per cent insanity.
/cm
"Today's nuclear bombs far outstrip the devastating power of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs."
As early as the Vietnam era, the U.S. had 155 mm nuclear artillery shells that packed more power than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki "firecrackers".
Everyone who stills thinks highly of Juan Cole should read his ridiculous defense of Biden today.
"(Biden) also said that the Israelis are sovereign and that the US could not stop them from launching a missile strike on Iran, is just the United Nations Charter. I.e. it is boilerplate. "
"So what Biden was really saying is that the Obama administration intends to engage Iran diplomatically, and that if anyone wants Iran attacked they will have to do it themselves."
http://www.juancole.com/2009/07/iraqis-project-hopes-fears-onto-biden.html#comments
See, folks, there was no "green light", just Israel following the UN charter and attacking Iran if it feels like it. But "they will have to do it themselves" with the weapons we gave them.
If Israel attacks Iran, the most they could hope for is to slow the nuclear program. The consequence of an attack though is that Iran would rally as one around the need to attain Nuclear Weapons. It would become a national mania, a drive, a goal that would be fulfilled within 36 months of an attack.
And in the meantime Iraq, which Iran has helped keep calm, would erupt. Lebanon & Syria will be pulled in. The Straits of Hormuz would be closed/blocked, maybe by a sunken American Carrier. Iranian SS-N-22's overlook that strait.
The Law of Unintended Consequences will play out mightily if this Charley Foxtrot is undertaken.
Israel is an insane rogue dog that intimidates and scares all it sees.
It will be shot down in the street, like all rabid dogs must be. Sad, because it would be so welcome TO JOIN THE PACK GODAMMIT.
To Kill A Mockingbird
Obama stood by and did nothing to intervene in the Israeli massacre of Palestinians in Gaza and he bears responsibility for his support of Israeli war crimes. Obama has repeatedly defended Israel's "right to self-defense." He has likewise promised to maintain the US pledge of $30 billion in arms aid to Israel over the next decade.
bbr-001's claim that: "Obama is trying to stake out a middle ground on Israel, Palestine and Iran," is an attempt at sanitizing a pus-oozing policy of supporting Israel's murderous and inhuman treatment Palestinians and an attempt to portray Obama as taking a reasonable approach.
Obama's lack of concern for Palestinians when Israel declared "all-out war" against a largely defenseless and half-starved population of 1.5 million people imprisoned in a blockaded small strip of land is anything but reasonable. It's criminal.
Portraying Obama as seeking a middle ground, and hence as reasonable, wreaks of lip sticked pigs and stinks to high heaven.
"Obama stood by and did nothing to intervene in the Israeli massacre of Palestinians in Gaza and he bears responsibility for his support of Israeli war crimes."
Did you make this up, or do you have some supporting evidence for this claim?
Sy Hersh wrote in The New Yorker that Obama worked behind the scenes to stop the Gaza incursion while he was President-elect, waiting for Bush to vacate the presidency. The Israelis pulled out before Obama entered the White House---lending support to Hersh's claim.
He did nothing publicly. That doesn't mean he did nothing.
Dear fallen world: Israel committed war crimes in Gaza. The Geneva Treaty of 1980 stipulates that white phosphorus should not be used as a weapon of war in civilian areas. Not to mention firing on Red Cross buildings, attacking ambulences and allowing injured Palestinians to bleed to death on the streets by firing upon anyone who tried to help them. Keep in mind these are only a tiny fraction of the atrocities committed by Israelis.
Israel's repeated firing of white phosphorus shells over densely populated areas of Gaza during its recent military campaign was indiscriminate and is evidence of war crimes, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. (March 25, 2009)
fallen world: "He did nothing publicly. That doesn't mean he did nothing."
-Oh gee, fallen world, perhaps Obama should receive the Nobel Peace Prize for saying nothing publicly. Obama, the coward, not willing to take any heat from AIPAC, or right wingers, said nothing publicly. Thanks for making my point.
You seem to equate the war crimes of Israel with Obama---for some reason. He wasn't even in office when they were committing the crimes which you so nicely lay out.
Thanks fallen world. If you can accept that Israel committed war crimes then you must be able to understand that war crimes are a serious violation and merit much more of a response than saying nothing. Wouldn't you agree?
Really? fat lot of good that did. Supporting evidence? The silence was support enough. What evidence do you have that Obama worked behind the scenes? What a crock! Did you see the link to Obama's AIPAC speech I posted above? Are you in some sort of denial? Please, you are either naive or intentionally trying to lay a smoke screen.
The Israelis pulled out because that was part of the pre-approved plan, they had it planned months in advance. The Israelis continue their illegal blockade and siege of Gaza - the world's largest concentration camp. Has Obama done anything? Have sanctions been threatened from the UNSC on the request of the US? Spare us the BS, most here have been paying a lot more attention and know more about this than you do, so you better come up with some more sophisticated propaganda.
Has Obama done anything? He called for an end to settlements in the west bank---in direct opposition to the Israeli government. A big step in the right direction. A start toward a more balanced position, and perhaps a peace treaty.
You people crack me up.
talk about entertaining; you sound so confident, yet your comments are incredibly naive and uninformed. Where is the hard evidence? Talk is cheap, and we have been hearing the same BS for decades. Show me don't tell me, cause I've heard it all before
BARACK OBAMA: The United States does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements. This construction violates previous agreements and undermines efforts to achieve peace. It is time for these settlements to stop.
AMY GOODMAN: That was President Obama in Cairo in his heralded address to the Muslim world. John Pilger, he says the continued expansion of settlements has to stop, your response? And an overall to his entire address?
JOHN PILGER: He says the continuing response, but what about all the settlements, the so-called settlements, colonies, that have so honeycombed the Occupied Territories over almost two decades? I thought the most significant aspect of that statement was he referred to the continuing settlements, leave the ones that have already been built. Let’s stop building them now. Of course, the Israelis, ever resourceful in this area, got around this very quickly. by issuing building licenses to those settlements that were about to be built and hadn’t been built as if they had been built so they would not fall into President Obama’s category.
Notice fallen world, Obama said continued expansion of settlements. Where is the condemnation for all the ones already built?
ANSWER: There isn't one!
Notice fallen world, Obama doesn't threaten ANY CONSEQUENCES, he just says the US does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements. What happens when the Israelis continue issuing building permits?
ANSWER: Nothing!
Thanks, fallen world, for making my point- again. Good job.
Cracking you up isn't called for. You were cracked up the moment you embraced FUBAR Zionist logic. How's that go again? The only good arab is a dead one, right? You Zionists need a nice thousand square miles or so in Australia to cool your heels and stop your bullshit. You can play "crocodile dundee" and make the desert bloom in Australia! You've pushed everyone and everything into this ridiculous kill a hundred for everyone of us thing. Damned, you guys sound like the Nazis when they shot ten villagers for every German soldier killed. You just don't get it. But you will when your money runs out.
Israel's attack in Iran seems to be firmly in progress. Different sources in Google News report that Israel has Egyptian authorization to send its submarines armed with nuclear tipped cruise missiles through the Suez Canal (and in fact has now done so), and Saudi Arabian permission for its war planes to overfly that country for the attack. Iran's retaliation will obviously be to destroy the huge Saudi oilfields in the north as well as the Suez Canal. They would also close off the Hormuz Straights.
With this the oil prices will go to $150-200 or more and the total collapse of what remains of the neoliberal economic order.
"and Saudi Arabian permission for its war planes to overfly that country"
Thus eliminating the need to obtain U.S. permission to overfly Iraq. The Saudis are NOT friendly with Iran.
Chris Floyd has a good discussion of this over at
http://www.chris-floyd.com/
the article details the current(and familar) preparations to attack iran. much the same as the way they spun the iraq attack:
*Obama has given "to the end of the year" for diplomacy to work re irans nuclear program.
*UN IAEA chair El Baradi is being replaced by a hard-liner
*Biden has given a pale green light.
They just have to get some good "intel" sorted out...
Irans only hope is to make sure that everyone knows how bad it will hurt to attack them, which of course will be spun as them being a rouge state whose time has come.
As in so many areas, Obama is trying to stake out a middle ground on Israel, Palestine and Iran. Its an almost impossible task, and Biden shooting off his mouth doesn't help a bit. 30 plus years experience, but its the first year repeated over and over!
Coco is right. By Biden's logic, Iran could conclude it must take out Israeli airfields and planes in preemption to an airstrike.
BTW: Israel won't have even a chance to pull off an airstrike against Iran unless the US gives it a red carpet to fly across Iraq. The large number of jets carrying large bombs will be reported on takeoff by Iranian spies. The planes will have to refuel and will be on radar for hours, and well trained Iranians will be waiting for them with every plane and SAM they have available (some state of the art Russian hardware). Iran isn't defenseless as Iraq and Syria were.
I doubt they would fly over Iraq. Look for departure from somewhere like Georgia. Does that give any sense as to why Israel was so involved in the ill-advised attack on S.Ossetia with military advisors, those 8 UAV's etc.? They want the base for operations against Iran.
It is amazing to me that such a small country as Israel can effectively control the foreign policy of so many Western countries.
"It is amazing to me that such a small country as Israel can effectively control the foreign policy of so many Western countries."
It's called blackmail by Mossad and AIPAC.
How many politicians have skeletons they would rather not have revealed residing in their closets?
We can only hope.
Let's see.
You are a supplier of widgets.
One of your customers who buys your widgets wants to use them up.
You make more money the more widgets that are used.
You want to sell more widgets so why would you stop any customer from using them?
The more your widgets are used to the more money you make.
The more your widgets are used to the more money you make.
The more your widgets are used to the more money you make.
The more your widgets are used to the more money you make.
You have no soul.
You care only about making money.
You are the U.S, Government.
The widgets you sell is weapons of mass destruction.
You have no soul.
You care only about making money.
Well folks, do you remember the words of Saint Ronald the Reagan about "Mutual Assured Destruction"? Well before we mutually destruct, we should try to vote these scum-bags out and vote people with an IQ of above tilt in. Our children's children will thank us.
Incredible-- the military head of the joint chiefs of staff being more cautious and sensible than the civilian President and vice president of the U.S.
Well, yes, the military is less ideological and more realistic on the prospects of such a conflict and the devastating consequences it would have on practically the whole world. Biden demonstrated his utter irrationality and total divorce from reality when he spoke as he did. Frightening that we have an autistic sociopath as vice-president.
Has there been any,ANY rebuttal to this shit from anybody in DC?Tony
"Officials in Jerusalem were not surprised by Mr Biden's comments,"
Nor am I, what with Joe Biden being a self-declared Zionist.
And, Mike Mullen is NOT the nation's most senior military commander (other than in the sense that he may be the OLDEST, I don't know if that's true). That job belongs to the Commander-In-Chief of the U.S. military, Barack Obama. Presumably the position taken by Biden is in accord with the decision made by the actual most senior military commander. Bush said to Israel, "Don't do it." Obama has said, presumably, based on Biden's comments, "Go ahead." I'm no Bush fan but who's the bigger warmonger, Bush or Obama?
"the fact that Biden is talking about Israel's right to attack Iran,"
Would this not qualify as "aggressive war" under U.N. regulations? Does every country have a "sovereign right" to attack any other country, or is that a privilege granted only to the United States and Israel?
"The liberal Israeli daily Haaretz said Israel now believed the US was considering more punitive action against Iran, such as tighter sanctions, but still wanted to give dialogue a chance of succeeding."
This would be the Israel which has refused to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and is said to have around 200 or more nuclear bombs in storage, and the Iran which has signed the treaty and is said by the IAEA to show no evidence of developing a nuclear weapons program.*
"I worry about it being very destabilising, not just in and of itself, but the unintended consequences of a strike like that," Admiral Mullen told CBS.
Can we absolutely and totally discount any possibility that Iran may have already acquired nuclear arms from a third party? Politicians live in and revel in lies and half-truths. *It may be true that Iran is not developing a nuclear weapons development program, but never mentioned or suggested is the possibility of a third-party source. Iran seems pretty confident in its ability to respond with overwhelming force should they be attacked by Israel. A nuke over the billion dollar U.S. "embassy" (fort) in Iraq would certainly qualify as an unintended consequence, as would a nuke over Tel Aviv.
Go ahead. Start World War III you bastards.
I just hope I get to see the flash.
The survivors will indeed envy the dead.
EKATON: Would this not qualify as "aggressive war" under U.N. regulations? Does every country have a "sovereign right" to attack any other country, or is that a privilege granted only to the United States and Israel?
-to ask the question is to answer it.
The hypocrisy of the US knows no bounds. The US, the only nation to have used nuclear bombs against another nation, has appointed itself lord and overseer of WMD and the sole arbiter of who may and may not possess them. The MSM parrots this notion as gospel, and the sheeple swallow it hook-line-&-sinker.
He sure is one sick piece of shit. There really is cause for concern, if there is any truth to the stories of Iranian possession of nukes it would certainly explain the bold statements and nose tweaking by Amadinejad over the past few years.
So why would the plutocracy wish to see a nuclear exchange?
Iran gets nukes from Australian
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25597778-5006016,00.html
US experts 98% certain Iran got nuclear bombs - in 1992
http://dontbombiran.info/?p=309
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
In order to have functioning nuclear bombs, a nation needs to conduct nuclear tests: this is a sine qua non condition for any nation's having such weapons. Where are the tests conducted by Iran, and when exactly were they carried out? What is the evidence that such tests were perfomed?
It is totally gratuitous to assert that Iran is in possession of nuclear weapons unless the person(s) making the claim can produce evidence that tests were conducted.
That said, Biden is, of course, an unspeakable dirtbag for having made that statement. For, although Iran does not have nuclear weapons, a war with Iran would be something that the world would come to regret deeply. If the holy economy is in shambles now, wait till you see what state it is in after a war with Iran. We'll all be paying dearly if such an event comes to pass. And with that, I haven't even touched on the legal and moral aspects of such an action.
"It is totally gratuitous to assert that Iran is in possession of nuclear weapons unless the person(s) making the claim can produce evidence that tests were conducted."
I'm not sure if you might be referring to my post. If so, I did not assert anything; I asked a simple, though admittedly wild assed speculative, question.
Again, somewhat revised, "Can we be certain that Iran has not acquired nuclear weapons from an (unspecified) third party?
I believe it would be wise to consider that question prior to an attack upon Iran by any aggressor.
"In order to have functioning nuclear bombs, a nation needs to conduct nuclear tests"
Not if proven weapons were acquired from a third party who would already have completed the tests, and would have been manufacturing weapons based upon designs already tested.
It is all speculative on my part. It was a response to the idea of unintended consequences. One does not bring a knife to a gunfight. It is best to first determine whether or not your opponent has a gun. One need not build and test his own gun. One can purchase guns on the black market.
Did you read the articles suggested by White Rose, above?
Here are the links, again.
Iran gets nukes from Australian
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25597778-5006016,00.html
US experts 98% certain Iran got nuclear bombs - in 1992
http://dontbombiran.info/?p=309
My best, wildest speculation yet, NOT supported by the above articles or any other sources but my addled brain:
Perhaps the CIA has supplied nuclear weapons to Iran. Perhaps they might want to find out if a limited nuclear war could actually be fought.
Once the first nuke detonates, all bets are off all over the world.
You are right that I did leave out the logical possibility (in the formal sense of 'logical', not the vague sense of ordinary speech) that Iran may have obtained nuclear weapons from a third party.
However, a logical possibility is one thing, what is possible in the actual world, the world as we know it, is another thing altogether.
As such, I grant you that the proposition that Iran obtained nuclear weapons from a third party (be it the CIA) is indeed "wild assed," but, unlike you, I believe that such speculations are not worth entertaining.
Iran might have nuclear weapons. Or not.
HOWEVER, Khamenei has stated that:
"For many years, our nation and its officials have repeatedly said that we do not want nuclear weapons, it is haram (forbidden) in Islam. Even if they pay us to have it, we do not want it"
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/
full-coverage/5629196/
hated-mideast-irans-khamenei/
"The Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has issued the fatwa that the production, stockpiling, and use of nuclear weapons are forbidden under Islam and that the Islamic Republic of Iran shall never acquire these weapons"
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/
iran/nuke/mehr080905.html
How many very high ranking Jewish religious leaders have stated that the stockpiling and use of nuclear weapons is forbidden?
By stating that nuclear weapons themselves are haram, not just the use of nuclear weapons, Khamenei isn't giving himself, and Iran, ANY wiggle room, to use nuclear weapons.
People conveniently want to ignore that Iran's highest leader has stated that nuclear weapons are haram under Islam.
They would,of course "test fire" on Irael.Tony
"That said, Biden is, of course, an unspeakable dirtbag for having made that statement."
_________________________________________
Sorry, Abendland, I'm afraid I completely disagree.
Biden was an unspeakable dirtbag WAY before he made that statement.
· Yr Obd't Servant
I have no dispute with you on that addition to my post.
I consider it an addition, not a corrective, for I did not say 'from now on'.
"...was told by then US president George Bush that the US would not support such a move."
-that the Democrats have become even more hawkish than Bush comes as no surprise to me.
Biden is a classic establishment dirtbag and a close ally of Obama. He was an avid supporter of US intervention in the former Yugoslavia and along with his buddy sponsored the McCain-Biden Kosovo Resolution, authorizing Clinton to use “all necessary force” against Serbia.
Immediately after Powell made his false presentation before the UN Security Council that included fabricated claims of mobile chemical labs, Biden appeared with him and said, “I am proud to be associated with you. I think you did better than anyone could have because of your standing, your reputation and your integrity ...”
As the illegal war in Iraq lost support because no WMD was found Biden said of Bush: “I want to see the president of the United States succeed in Iraq...His success is America’s success, and his failure is America’s failure.”
In 2005 the Post reported: Barack Obama—described Biden as “an early and consistent supporter of the US intervention against Saddam Hussein.”
The fact Obama chose chicken hawk Biden as his vice president speaks volumes about chicken hawk Obama and should have been a red flag for those liberals that voted for him. Neither of these pretenders ever wore a military uniform let alone knows anything about the horrors of war yet still they are more than eager to send your son, mine and anyone else’s to fight and die for Big Oil & War Profits Inc.
"Neither of these pretenders ever wore a military uniform let alone knows anything about the horrors of war yet still they are more than eager to send your son, mine and anyone else’s to fight and die for Big Oil & War Profits Inc."
The President is the Commander-in-Chief. If he wants to go to war, more power to him, as long as he and his family lead the infantry into battle. If the congress wants to pass unconstitutional "Authorization(s) to Use Military Force" in lieu of an actual declaration of war, members and their families should follow the Commander into battle.
Does anybody have the odds on WW3;some body out there is betting on how this adminisration is crazier than the last one.Tony
There no inherent RIGHT to preemptively launch a Military attack against another nation.
It a violation of International laws and the UN Charter.
Only criminal nations believe they can act outside the law.
It cannot be stated more succinctly than you did. Biden in essence reverts to the Hitlerism of the 1930's when even his future opponents (France and England)agreed that Germany had the "right" to annex Sudentenland.
Bring America Back !!!!...............! Good ol' Joe does it again...so much for Barak's diplomatic talk.
**Biden never raised a whimper of protest against Israel's recent Genocide in Gaza--300-400 dead innocent kids included, so we sure as hell are not surprised at his inviting the Zions to do it to Iran.
**Biden is not very original on it, since John Neocon McCain
rewrote the song====Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran !!! And Hillary elbows stated on Iran: "We will just obliterate them".
**What the hell goes on ??? VP Cheney gives them the 'right' to waterboard detainees, now VP Biden gives the Zionists the 'right' to bomb Iran !! LET us please exercise our "Rights" to tell Biden and Cheney where to go !
KIng George the Bush' third term is well in progress.
WAKE UP AMERICA ! Do not let Biden get away with this unconscionable remark, and his very loose tongue ! Did AIPAC just make another campaign $$$$, or what ?