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Doctor Laments Brush-Off of Iraqi War Dead
Roberts, a physician and prominent public health scientist at Columbia University, believes there is solid evidence that something like half a million people, mostly civilians, have been killed in the Iraq war. His statistics are about 10 times higher than the estimates put forth by the Bush administration and Pentagon.
An Iraqi woman peeps inside a blood stained car of two women allegedly shot dead by private security guards in central Baghdad in 2007. In 2004, Roberts and colleagues sneaked into Iraq with dyed beards and dressed in robes to conduct a series of mortality "cluster point" surveys in various communities while the war raged on.
(AFP/File/Ali Yussef) But a much bigger problem than the numerical disparity, Roberts said, is the simple fact that so few even ask.
"I think it's important that every American understand the true magnitude of this tragedy," said Roberts. Unfortunately, he added, few in the media or in government appear to want to draw attention to the deaths that have so severely altered the life of nearly every Iraqi.
In 2004, Roberts and colleagues sneaked into Iraq with dyed beards and dressed in robes to conduct a series of mortality "cluster point" surveys in various communities while the war raged on. His team initially estimated the civilian death toll as at least 100,000 (two to three times the official estimate) but later analysis caused him to raise the estimate to be 95 percent certain to be in the range of 400,000 to 950,000 - or a mean of about 650,000 deaths. The findings were reported in the British medical journal the Lancet in 2006.
"To help people understand this, given the population of Iraq, this would be like New York City having two 9/11 attacks every week over a period of three years," Roberts said. Things have gotten less violent in Iraq, he said, but nobody should be lulled into thinking that things are good.
Another report, issued in January, estimated that 151,000 Iraqis died from violence between March 2003 and June 2006. The estimate was based on projections by the Iraqi government and the World Health Organization.
"Gen. (David) Petraeus testified earlier this year about how few deaths we're seeing in Iraq, but his numbers suggested that life in Baltimore was more violent than in Iraq," he said. He said he wrote e-mails before the hearing to ask members of Congress to challenge the statistics, but nobody spoke up. No reporters he contacted challenged Petraeus' statistics either, he added with evident frustration.
"Everybody wants to believe things are getting better because Republicans want to declare victory and Democrats want an excuse to get out," Roberts said. Meanwhile, he said, the media continue to ignore the issue.
"My professional life and purpose is based on the belief that valid data, most of the time, lead toward truth and that truth can lead toward justice," Roberts said.
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37 Comments so far
Show AllFOX News would probably have us believe that no innocent Iraqis were killed by US soldiers; they simply killed each other. Those who watch FOX or just about any other MSM believe the surge worked, we are winning in Iraq and victory is at hand. Forget that Iraq wants us out and is in the process of coming up with an end-date. Halliburton must be pissed. But they'll just move camp to Afghanistan or the next country we invade.
¿ Would _ J A K E _ put his life on the line for his favored "officious" Betrayous numbers ?
___ Indubitably NOT ! ___
Namaste
It begs the question, is America the evil empire?
Not America, the US Government et al.
[______ O F F I C I O U S ___ S Y N C O P H A N T S _______]
[______________ A R E ___ N O T ___ U _ S ______________]
Namaste
Truth? Justice? Those are only found as the lies in our history books., and in our media. America has gotten so far off the track precisely because the truth has been hidden by a media that has a vested interest in not bringing bad news to the surface.
Hoa binh
The USA has been bombing Iraq since 1991. Estimates of the dead have been as high as 3 million.
I thought the Lancet estimate was over one million. This article has a different number. Why?
Because you're wrong! The original survey estimated 98,000 deaths, and the 2006 update estimated 655,000 deaths. However, another survey was carried out in 2007 by Opinion Research Business (ORB), an independent UK based polling agency, putting the figure at over one million - and that's probably where your number comes from.
OK, thanks.
Gee, guess all these innocent Iraqi civilians were not "Chosen".
"But a much bigger problem than the numerical disparity, Roberts said, is the simple fact that so few even ask." I think these numbers must be light, with the other studies out there, but realize that a large number of the deaths in war are "friendly fire" so the constant fighting between factions, the suicide bombings, and Iraqi on Iraqi violence is significant, but the suffering directly related to this US invasion of Iraq is beyond my ability to imagine. I can't picture 500,000 people packed into an open space, (how many acres would it take?) how many families are directly impacted by this loss, (close relatives, neighbors, friends, co-workers) and if the death total is this high, how many survived? That we as a society are not asking and demanding answers to these types of questions reveals a great lack in our moral character. Can we define ourselves as the "good guys" battling against the "bad guys"? We did, and we still dangerously label sever nations as evil and conduct our foreign policy as though we were at war. "Sanctions which create a hungry underclass, only knowing that the greed and arrogance of American Empire building contributes to their poverty and hunger builds only a basis for more war. When will we ask the right questions. I believe most Americans would choose the wise policy, if they asked the right questions. Tragically our deaths number in the thousands, with many more serious injury's. The number is significantly than that when non-military and private military contractors are counted. Their loss is a tragedy for our nation and their families, but it's well beyond the time to look at the big picture.
"Halliburton must be pissed. But they'll just move camp to Afghanistan or the next country we invade."
Exactly right.....the spineless swine that make up the bulk of this wonderful nation will let all the snakes involved slither off to do it again and again. Know why? because those responsible will pay off some key figures to chirp over and over in the media how we need to let it lay......the nation needs to "move on", to "get past this". Instead of swarming the streets and DEMMANDING the culpable maggots pay with their ill-gotten fortunes AND their lives! So the NEXT bunch of whores bought by AIPAC and the corporations will think REALLY hard before they pull crap like this, because they KNOW heads will roll, family fortunes will be forfeit and executions will take place. Why do none of you even consider the benefits of NATIONALIZING energy?
Can you even imagine how quick most of this would stop? if there aren't consequences for these slime-balls or their spawn, where is the impetous to NOT do it??
The issue of the differing estimates is caused by the fact that most are based on numbers from the start of Shock and Awe - March 2003. The USA started bombing in 1991 and has continued to bomb ever since. Also, remember the quote from Barbara Bush when asked about the number of dead Iraqis - she answered why should she bother her pretty little head about things like that.
Please look at the Fisk War Photos that are on the Internet. Seeing the photo of a child with the back of her head blown off - - - what can I say, except if that's not a crime against humanity, nothing is.
650,000 dead. We should really pat ourselves on the back. We really ARE so much better then Saddam. Now shut up and get back in line.
Obama sincerely thanks everyone who will die over the next 16 months (probably much longer) for sacrificing their lives so we can avoid ending the war now.
Paul Siemering
Yes, the "much bigger problem is... that so few ask". I never quite understood how the people of the u.s. could allow their government to murder so many people in Iraq, and Afghanistan and Palestine without a squawk. sure, the media have a lot to answer for, because it's their job to tell the people, and they just won't. Even so, you'd need to be living under a rock not to know at least something of the horror we are perpetrating.
And it keeps getting worse, is the thing. I listened to them scream and cry and carry on about the price of gas. I thought "you effing crybabies think you got trouble? let me show you some trouble..." and so on. Now, during this way too long campaign, where does all this mayhem figure? Does it get as much ink as Palin's moose? Obama's middle name? The wars must get in line behind a very long list of egregious trivialities before even an indirect reference will be heard. But never, ever a peep of sympathy or remorse or pity for our millions of victims. I'd cry for this country if I had not used up all my tears the day the bombs hit Afghanistan.
seems humanity (or at least the west) has lost its compassion and soul...........as long as the gas prices don't go up everything is hunky dory.
"...valid data, most of the time, lead toward truth and that truth can lead toward justice..." -- There in lie the reasons no one in our two corporate parties wants the data. The truth would expose their complicity and justice would mean they go to jail.
JMA
Jim Swanson, Los Altos, CA
www.bushleagueofnations.com [For FREE downloads of entire book]
"One 9/11 Every 11 Hours, Around the Clock, 24 Hours a Day:"
Thank God for the courage of Dr. Les Roberts and his colleagues.
Let’s try to put this horrific human toll in perspective by comparing it with: (a) the slaughter on 9/11, and (b) the Virginia Tech massacre on April 16, 2007:
1. The 655,000 Iraqi deaths is an average of 16,375 deaths per month during the 40-month post-invasion study period (March 2003 to July 2006).
2. This means that Iraq suffered about 218 9/11 equivalents during the first 40 months of war—an average of more than five 9/11 equivalents each month.
3. On a per capita basis, Iraq suffered, on average, the equivalent of 65 9/11s per month—or one 9/11 every 11 hours, around the clock, 24 hours a day. (Iraq’s population is about 1/12th that of the United States.)
4. Iraq suffered, on average, the equivalent of 496 Virginia Tech massacres per month—or one Virginia Tech massacre every 90 minutes.
5. On a per capita basis, Iraq suffered, on average, the equivalent of 5,952 Virginia Tech massacres per month—or one Virginia Tech massacre every 7 minutes and 30 seconds, around the clock, 24 hours a day.
And some Bush/McCain supporters still ask, “Why do they hate us.”
The Bush regime has not even tried to estimate the number of Iraqi deaths caused by its illegal and immoral war on Iraq.
The cited Lancet survey estimated, through July 2006 (a period of 40 months), that 655,000 Iraqis had died as a consequence of the Iraq war. The estimate range was 943,000 at the high end and 393,000 at the low end.
The peer-reviewed survey, which was conducted by the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health and published in The Lancet medical journal in October 2006, concluded that 91% of the 655,000 deaths “were due to violence, the most common cause being gunfire.”
The study compared Iraqi mortality rates before and after the March 2003 invasion in 47 randomly chosen areas across Iraq, and it is the most thorough scientific survey to date.
Surveyed family members produced death certificates in more than 90% of the cases.
The foregoing is excerpted from my new book, "The Bush League of Nations: The Coalition of the Unwilling, the Bullied and the Bribed – the GOP’s War on Iraq and America," by James A. Swanson (2008, published by CreateSpace Publishing, 448 pages). www.bushleagueofnations.com
See in particular Chapter 4, “The Unjust War in Iraq—Christianity is Bombing in Iraq.”
As a gift to patriots everywhere, the entire book can be downloaded for FREE at www.bushleagueofnations.com. Please pass along the good news.
I ask for nothing in return, except that you consider using my book to help kick out America’s worst regime and political party ever.
Jim Swanson, Los Altos, CA
www.bushleagueofnations.com
Who is the real terrorist here? Al Qaeda, which has - at the very most - killed maybe 5-6,000 people in the last decade, worldwide? (not that that is a small number, it is still horrifying) Or Amerikka the Good and Chosen of God Almighty, which can lay claim to in the neighborhood of 3-4 million murders over the last decade, through its illegal invasions and bombings (not wars, since there has not been any Declarations of War by Congress, per the US Constitution) in the Middle East, eastern Europe, South America, etc, etc.?
You know the answer. What a shame our "Christian" nation is too scared to look in the fucking mirror.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis, "It Cant Happen Here", 1935
What makes anyone think that this war-mongering administration would own up to murdering any of the Iraqi people?
They won't even admit to any of our armed forces losing their lives in Iraq. They sneak their bodies back into our country in the dark of night and won't even allow any representatives of the media into the National Cemetery for their funerals.
America is no longer the country our founding fathers created. It has become a loathesome war-mongering nation in the eyes of the world!
We are all responsible for this. We allowed our so-called leaders to get us into this so-called war which in reality was a war for personal gain. We should have all taken to the streets in protest instead we acted like cowards afraid of our own shadows and allowed all of this to happen.
Millions of people in the US and around the world DID "take to the streets" in protest. Bush called us "focus groups". We were ignored.
I remember Bush's comment about "focus groups" vividly. It was shortly after thousands of people marched in the streets of every major city in the United States, protesting against a possible war with Iraq. Sadly, it was to no avail, and many Democrats in Congress, and many in the media, went along with the President.
It is too late to change this. Now we must elect Barack Obama - imperfect as he may be - and as many progressive senators and congressmen as possible to effect a change in foreign policy. We must begin somewhere.
Individually and collectively, our increasingly accurate perceptions and knowledge, are propelling COURAGEOUS action.
Of course we're responsible ( who else ? ), but becoming EMPOWERED requires a new set of intentions and focus.
We are purposely being feed divisive bu$h!t propaganda to maintain illusions of FEAR, scarcity, HATE, and disconnection from each other ( especially to the suffering of the millions of victims of OUR warmongering imperialism and criminal financial corruption )
Namaste
The fact that so few americans seem to give a shit about the 1.5+ MILLION dead Iraqi's shows just how morally bankrupt the USA is. People freak out about their investments losing value, but the value of human life doesn't even show up on their radar. It's criminal.
Please consider that your negative statements are self-full-fooling.
__ (1.) I imagine that perhaps no more than 30 million ( ~ 10 % progressive ) Americans suspect or know of the real level of death and suffering in Iraq.
__ (2.) Massive public disapproval or being upset with bu$h!t policies -- is not based upon the public's full knowledge or having had the story being told -- it is a direct result of the overloaded slippage of the mask of illusionary reality, spewed forth via the jacka$$ $ewer main $tream media.
__ (3.) What's OBVIOUS to ( almost ) ALL, are the outright verifiable bu$h!t lies, contradictions, and distortions -- that even the mostly oblivious people are challenged to deny.
__ (4.) One must already be aligned with progressive causes to search out and find the few buried news stories or web sites -- most people receive what news they get through steeply propagandized channels of news distortions.
Therefore the public's "radar" is quite limited to the most egregiously extreme events or "mistakes", that slip through the cracks of the manufactured consensus illusion.
The majority of Americans are moral and are purposely being misinformed, misguided, and misdirected. The massive use of FEAR { yellow to red "journalism" } and appeals to patriotism and righteousness are TOOLS of the PSYOPS propaganda mind bending and twisters
___ ¿ Do you really think that most people really care one wit
___ about Brittany's ( et. al ) tribulations and artificiality
___ ( in an actual complete reversal to the proportion to the news coverage ) ?
Namaste
I read your reply to me as a sort of defacto exoneration of people's ignorance. I don't see it that way. I think people have a responsibility to seek out information about what their tax dollars and their name is used for. Many Americans do not know about the numbers of people killed by their government, but they should. I also think your numbers are not accurate. I think more than 30 million Americans know about the Iraqi dead. I think some people don't care, some people do care and feel powerless to stop it, and some people care and find ways to express their dissent and even to take meaningful action against the war machine.
Perhaps BLAME ( " … people should … " ) is an improved sense and feeling for yourself, and regardless, I have no problem with whatever state or belief that you are present to.
I believe that we ALL find our human balance through the state of our EMOTIONS, and there is a scale which proceeds upward from our most negative powerless feelings to those associated with the state of joy and empowerment exhibited by the most evolved. Every moment we choose our intention, and state of being, which determines our feelings through how well our thoughts are aligned with our higher purposes and beliefs.
For example, someone ( possibly you ) who has been long feeling items 17. ANGER and/or 16. DISCOURAGEMENT -- has made a significant improvement and will feel a sense of _ R E L I E F _, if they can change their thoughts to create a feeling of 15. BLAME.
It's true that we each can only create in our own experience & thoughts, and egoic tendencies to judge and compare to others, make it that much more challenging to think more positive thoughts and thus feelings. People ( including myself ) are too often quick to make judgements about what are the POSSIBLE motivations, feelings, thoughts, and experience of another, which is IRONIC when it's actually quite hard enough for ourselves to fully understand -- just when focused internally on ourselves alone.
Most people are nominally unable to readily align themselves, or determine where our current vibrations levels are at ( what item number are we allowing or producing ) or where our perceptions differ from the reality occurring ( experiencing ) around us.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Awareness of being aware ( CONSCIOUSNESS = PRESENCE ), is key to advancing to higher or better feeling emotions and feelings, and the effective choice of better aligned thinking.
[_____ H E R E ' S __ T H E __ S C A L E __ O F __ E M O T I O N S _____ ]
Your own mileage may vary, but for most it would look something like this
( see Abraham-Hicks ):
__ 1. Joy/Knowledge/Empowerment/Freedom/Love/Appreciation.
__ 2. Passion.
__ 3. Enthusiasm/Eagerness/Happiness.
__ 4. Positive Expectation/Belief.
__ 5. Optimism.
__ 6. Hopefulness.
__ 7. Contentment.
__ 8. Boredom.
__ 9. Pessimism.
__ 10. Frustration/Irritation/Impatience.
__ 11. Overwhelment.
__ 12. Disappointment.
__ 13. Doubt.
__ 14. Worry.
__ 15. Blame.
__ 16. Discouragement.
__ 17. Anger.
__ 18. Revenge.
__ 19. Hatred/Rage.
__ 20. Jealousy.
__ 21. Insecurity/Guilt/Unworthiness.
__ 22. Fear/Grief/Depression/Despair/Powerlessness.
I have no way to know what the real percentage of aware people are, but I feel better assuming that most people are dedicated to doing the best that they can ( however "deluded" or misinformed ).
I believe that pure positive emotions are the key to ABUNDANT healing and well being for ALL. This means that even choosing a SLIGHTLY better feeling emotion -- that create a sense of RELIEF from that person's usual emotional "set point" -- is a tangible improvement and will result in a quite significant improvement of that person's life experience !
Namaste « Presence »
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world » — Gandhi
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man’s need but not for man’s greed » — Gandhi
« We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself » — ML King
I appreciate your point of view, and share some of it. I did not, however, use the word "blame" I used the word "responsibility." There's a big difference. Your post makes some assumptions which are incorrect.
In PC speak the concept of judgment is a bad thing, but from what I have learned in my life, if we make no judgments then we make no choices. I don't think it's somehow less spiritual to make a judgment.
After WWII there was a great deal of attention put on educating Germans about what their government had done. Many people were unaware of the concentration camps. Many people were brought to the camps to see what their taxes and efforts had been supporting.
Americans (yes it's a big generalization) would, I believe, benefit from a dose of reality. If more people understood just what their "patriotism" and jingoism has wrought in the world, there might be many crises of conscience, again a good thing to my way of thinking.
That is correct, you avoided use of the word "blame" -- but you certainly IMPLIED it.
Although I don't really need to debate the fine points of what you said, it's perhaps the use of language being a pet peeve of mine and about that others besides your own reading of this -- may benefit and better understand what I am attempting to clarify.
We both agree that citizenship carries a responsibility ( ability to respond ) to question authority, and maintain and seek an up to date understanding of current events and important issues. As you say " … what their tax dollars and their name is used for."
Your postings do carry the GIST of _b.l.a.m.e_ of our current predicament implicitly upon the shoulders of the masses of American people.
For example, the following illustrates your position of that judgment and of American's culpability :
[1.] Americans are guilty of apathy and are morally bankrupt :
__ see 25th, at 12:24 " … few americans seem to give a shit about
__ the 1.5+ MILLION dead Iraqi's shows just how morally bankrupt the USA
[2.] they're guilty of ignorance :
__ see 25th, at 5:42 pm pm " … a sort of defacto exoneration of people's ignorance"
[3.] they're guilty of ignorance, and it should be otherwise :
__ see 25th, at 5:42 pm " … Many Americans do not know about the numbers of people killed by their government, but they should
[4.] Some Americans are guilty of not caring and feeling powerless :
__ see 25th, at 5:42 pm pm " … think some people don't care, some people do care and feel powerless to stop it, and some people care and find ways to express their dissent and even to take meaningful action against the war machine."
[5.] I do read that you believe ( at 9:00 pm ) that "… [IF] we make no judgments then we make no choices. I don't think it's somehow less spiritual to make a judgment." My description [ a continuous relative scale of emotions ] wasn't about a boolean choice of either being spiritual or not, and therefore the position of making any judgements is about a relative encumbrance that such perceptions and beliefs automatically imposes upon our energy vibrations.
The scale provides an indicator of what we can do to improve our consciousness and point of view, depending upon how we're feeling. Of course we make value choices and weigh the facts ( as we see them ) when we take the position of judging others
I do agree with you that "Americans (yes it's a big generalization) would, I believe, benefit from a dose of reality. If more people understood just what their "patriotism" and jingoism has wrought in the world, there might be many crises of conscience, again a good thing to my way of thinking."
Namaste
skidog
As Papa Hemingway said:"Fascism is a lie told by bullies."
And obviously,a huge part of that lie is to NOT acknowledge the GENOCIDE.1 MILLION Iraqi DEAD.
PRIVATIZATION AND MILITARIZATION.Dumbya rolled those Repub tenats out in Iraq,in our first privatized war-for-profit,that has done what Bin Laden and the 'terrorists' could only dream of-TAKE DOWN THE US EMPIRE.'Elect' McSAME and finish the job.NOT.
But,of course,I'm preachin to the choir.Unless SNOWOLF IS IN THE HOUSE.
All kings is mostly rapscallions -- Mark Twain
All hail lame naked death emperor Shrublette! Even Crawford, TX has taken a scunner to him. Behold what he and our corporate media hath wrought.
Judith Miller now has a slick new gig at Fox News when she ought to be hanging from a slipped tight gib near the Hague. As you ponder this article I encourage you to also oggle this one: US JOURNALISTS AND WAR CRIME GUILT:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/10/16-8
We armed both sides of the Iran/Iraq war in the 1980s that killed a million Iraqis before 1990. The first Gulf Oil War followed by Bush Sr.'s and Clinton's sanctions probably killed over another million. The 2003 occu-vasion of Iraq has since, in my personal estimate, killed probably nearer 2 million and created over 4.5 million refugees--tens of thousands of whom will also die for various reasons. But don't forget Shrublette's proxy war in Somalia. Children are dying from malnutrition there in the thousands and there are no accurate figures for those already dead. Hundreds of thousands of Somali refugees. How many people were killed when Bush backed Olmert's aerial Luftwaffe strikes on Lebanon? Estimates of the war dead in Afghanistan vary widely but this is a country that has been continuously at war for almost 30 years. Pakistan is in the gun sights now: A nation of over 160 million. Every time I see a Hummer or an SUV with a some bling-dandy moron or haughty house frau behind the wheel filling up at the gas station I envision them pouring corpses into the tank.
Bush's Amurka stinks of death and guilt back-lit by ignorance and apathy.
At what point do the people of a democracy become guilty of the crimes of their leaders? We have a presidential race that pits two war-mongers against one another.
HOWEVER, Obama, who is PERCEIVED by many on both sides of the politcial spectrum, to be the peace candidate is barely edging out 100-years-in-Iraq McCain and goose-stepping, book-burning Palin. Whether you agree or not with this view of Obama it's clear that many Americans are choosing war even in their own minds.
I look around and all I see are people glorifying the millitary. Veterans are always being thanked in public for their "service." McCain is supposedly a war "hero." For what? Dropping bombs on Vietnamese peasants? I think the American populace at large is unthinkingly in the thrall of militarism.
Here's another thing I've noticed: You never fully have an American's attention until you start talking about taxes and jobs. I sometimes think we are the most amoral, materialistic people on Earth. We'd elect anyone who promises to reduce taxes no matter what else they promise to do. Meanwhile the Evangelical bloc (led by the likes of Dobson and Pat Robertson) is afraid of gays and vote for the war with their ballots and with the blood of their sons & daughters.
I don't think we're much more innocent than the leaders we keep electing. How long can willful ignorance and stupidity be used as a viable defense?
No gods, no kings
Grappa
Even though, a lot of what is said in these writings I agree with, you know the but is coming, but! What can the ordinary citizen do? In order to stop the militarism, you would have to have a major insurrection. Right now, people of the good ol U.S.A. are just trying to feed themselves and keep a roof over their head. As long as the corp. structure is in place with the owners of those structures in charge of the military, and the means of communications the whole world is screwed.
People of this nation are not hurting enough yet to shed the yoke of oppression,and do anything about a cancerous system.