Democrats Write a Blank Check for Bush's War

We need a __ B L A N K __ W A R __

to go along with that blank check

Ya know, bang bang -- you're NOT dead

Thanks Siouxrose.

"With all our differences, we need to unite behind representatives who want the people to have the power in a democracy"

Good post!

I am so sick and tired of hearing this thing referred to as "Bush's War" It may have started out that way but when the Democrats got the opportunity to get us out of there after the 2006 elections and failed to do so, it is everybody's war.

Did anyone think that Dubya was not going to secure the Congress' approval of sufficient funds to carry this thing out into 2009 before leaving office?

He's gonna be sitting down there at the Crawford ranch, sipping a lemonade and thinking, "Boy, those Democrats sure did their best to show their constituents how tough they were gonna be, but I guess I showed 'em"

And "Dickie-Boy" will be chiming in with, "You tell 'em, Georgie boy"

When you stop to think about it, the beauty of it all is that Iraq, with a parliament representing a counterpart to our Congress, has now chosen to emulate them. Votes of asking the U. S. to leave the country are totally ignored by Prime Minister al-Maliki, who knows he can't survive without the U. S. support, even if it means a permanent occupation in what he'd like to think is his country.

And, since he doesn't really know who's going to attack Iran first, us or Israel, he's playing both sides of the street, maintaining good relations with Ahmadinejad at the same time he's draining our treasury.

And why shouldn't he do so. He can look at what we've done with financial assistance to Pakistan and that's just another big ass-ache to us.

What's truly remarkable is that both al-Maliki and al-Sadr, who are strongly opposed to one another, both have an allegiance to the Iranian government. The only area in which they differ is that al-Sadr wants the U. S. completely out of Iraq. Other than that, there all just like a bunch of teenagers having a sleepover.

It's like the whole thing is just a big game.

This is great.....

lillulu June 23rd, 2008 4:41 pm

the Chimp, Obomba and McInsane.

Please think of another one for Pelosi !

frank 1569, thanks for the consistent reminders. It just goes to show how insidious and pervasive the indoctrination can be.

To me, there's always been a very simple argument against this 'war president - commander in chief' nonsense.

In the modern military, the basic code that each soldier swears to follow contains the Nuremberg principle. That is, they are not obligated to carry out an illegal order. From this, it naturally follows that no officer and not even the commander-in-chief has the power to issue an illegal order.

This is of course in complete accord with the entire notion and structure of the Constitution as well. The founders feared a strong central executive and did a lot to limit his powers. The President's role is to execute the laws passed by Congress and he does get to lead the military in fighting the wars that the Congress has declared. So, the above is in complete accordance with this general structure.

But, this bit about illegal orders always strikes me when the imperialists of both parties are yaking on and on about the President and his commander-in-chief powers. The truly American idea would be the second he issues an illegal order, everyone laughs in his face and then he's placed under arrest.

Anything else is seriously anti-American and can only be promoted by those who truly hate the very concept of America and what it was meant to be.

If the Greens aren't on the ballot in your state .... go grab a clipboard. Very few of those petition deadlines will have passed yet.

At this point, its clear that a vote for the Democrats in Congress is a vote to continue the war.

First, we have a steady stream of actions like this one to judge them on. And actions always count more than words.

But, even in words, listen very carefully. The one thing you won't hear is the Democratic party running on a Congressional platform that says 'give us the power and we'll be out of Iraq in 90 days.'

You'll hear criticism of the tactics and complaints about 'mistakes' Bush has made. But, you generally won't hear them say the war was fundamentally wrong to begin with. And you won't hear any promises to flat out end it ASAP. Maybe from a few candidates, but not from the leadership and not as a general theme like the Repubicans did with the Contract for America in 1994.

Also, if you vote for Obama, that is a vote to continue the war. All of the above is true with him. And also, listen closely to what Obama is saying.
-- at a debate in 2007 he clearly pledged to make sure American troops were in Iraq when his term ends in 2013.
-- He supports the Democratic phony-withdrawal plans that have massive loopholes in them for keeping troops in Iraq to 'fight terrorism', 'train the Iraqis', and 'protect Americans'. Ie, loopholes for the Pentagon to keep doing exactly what it says its doing today.
-- When questioning Gen. Petreus at the height of the Dem primary season, he was asking hypothetical questions about keeping 30,000 troops in Iraq.
-- Obama just went to AIPAC and pledge almost complete fealty to Israel. Among specific promises Obama promised several times to do 'everything' to make sure Iran stops its nuclear program.
-- When Obama talks about withdrawing troops from Iraq, he's really talking about redeployment. He constantly refers to Iraq as the 'wrong war' and to Afghanistan AND Pakistan as the 'right war'. The AND is important because he's also threatened to invade Pakistan if elected during the debates.

And remember, this was all (except the AIPAC speech) from the phony fake-liberal progressive Obama who lied to the members of the Democratic party to get the nomination. He's since been running around giving speeches like the AIPAC speech where he's abandoning any lefty pretension he's had at all and is presenting himself as much, much further to the right.

Give me a break if you think voting Democrat is still the answer. Its clear by now that a vote for any of these people is a vote for more war, death and destruction. If you want this to end, you must stop voting Democrat and vote for some independent or 3rd party candidate.

And my choice is McKinney (Green). Mainly for the same reasons as VAGreen above. We've got to build an opposition party. Plus, I was lucky enough to live in GA and listen to her for years, so I know she's just wonderful!!!! And being from GA, I also know the activist roots of her family. So the one thing for sure with her is that this is not just some show to get elected. She's been raised in this movement all her life.

"Nader is good, but voting for the Green nominee is better because it helps to build an alternative party to the duopoly."
_
Nader will be on at least 40 state ballots. How many will the Greens be on? Yes, by all means, go Green. Go Nader. Go anything but the status quo.

"...it is not just individual Democrats but the party as a whole that is failing."

Thank you John Nichols. You draw the right conclusion. It is the Democratic Party as a whole.

"spending $10 BILLION a month in Iraq. We have built over 800 schools, nearly 5,000 water and sewer projects and over 1,000 roads and bridges — in Iraq — while gas and food prices go through the roof here, home foreclosures wreak havoc on American families, and our infrastructure is in a shambles. Enough is enough!"

Wrong conclusion. The war/occupation is not wrong because it is expensive. The war/occupation is wrong because it is immoral and illegal. If the war/occupation were cheap would Ellison be okay with it? The war/occupation must be denounced not for being expensive but for being a war crime committed by war criminals in both political parties that need to be punished for crimes against humanity.

"Mr. Nichols

I am from Canada. We do not believe in you or your country anymore. Please go away and leave us alone. We will clean up the mess that you have inflicted on us. Just build a whole bunch of your fancy spaceships and blast off to Mars or some place. We have had enough of you."
---------------
Actually, I'm just wishing the rapture will come ... and soon.

I figure its gotta work one of two ways. Either the right-wing-nuts have it all wrong, and its all us peaceful anti-war people who fly up off to heaven. I figure that's gotta be a real laugh when I get to look down at all the war-loving bible thumpers standing there with a serious WHAT THE @#$% look on their faces.

Or maybe they've got it right, and its all the war-loving bible thumpers who go flying off to heaven. At which point I say 'good riddance' and then the rest of us can get around to building a more peaceful world with fewer religious nuts screwing it up for the rest of us.

"The measure was opposed by 151 Democrats — Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Appropriations Committee chair Dave Obey"

Lets be clear. This proposal was not seriously opposed by either of these people. They may have cast symbolic votes against it on the final vote, but neither used the power of their office to try to keep it from happening.

A committee chair can be a very powerful figure. Its very hard to get any bill through a committee when the chair actively opposes it. It can happen with a majority of the committee voting to override the chair. But it doesn't happen often and its a fight to do it. Notice that you heard nothing of any sort of these types of votes get the bill out of committee over the chairs objections, or saw any news of any fight at that level.

The same for the Speaker. The Speaker, through the Rules Committee, has a great deal of say over the agenda of the full House and what bills come to the floor and which don't. Again, it can be overridden by a majority vote of the full House. But again, this doesn't happen often and its a fight to do it. Note again that you saw no such fight.

Thus, its rather obvious that the committee chair and the speaker both worked to help bring this bill to a vote. And they both knew it would pass at that point. I don't remember either doing any real work to organize an opposition. And again, especially the speaker can be a very powerful figure when they declare they are opposed to something and they expect their party to follow them. Did you hear anything like that in this case? No.

So, both cast a symbolic vote against the bill they just worked hard behind the scenes to make sure was going to be passed.

And even people like Mr. Nichols, who's normally a pretty bright fellow, falls for this trick and writes the line that these two oppose this war and this bill.

Sorry, the proof is in the ACTIONS. These are two of the most powerful people in Congress. If they really opposed something, you'd see the fight. No fight ... no opposition ... their supposed opposition at the end is just phony political theater to con fools into voting for them again.

Nader is good, but voting for the Green nominee is better because it helps to build an alternative party to the duopoly.

www.gp.org

The status quo has got to go!

Nader, Green or third party.

Remember when all the dailykossacks said, all we need is a Democratic Congress and the war is over?

Remember when David Obey ripped on that woman who had a son in Iraq, complaining that she didn't know how to end the war, he did?

Remember when Murtha said, I'll defund the war in my committee?

Vote Nader.

Wow, it's not just the Bush administration who is retarded (and I am well aware
that others have noticed this-- they needn't say "DUH!").

The most cynical blanket statements that people have made about American politicians simply weren't cynical enough.

Next, I suppose, Congress will authorize the resolution about sanctions it's currently considering to bring us to the brink or OVER for war with Iran.

I really think we would do better to release all the retarded young adults who are presently institutionalized and replace them with our American politicians.

The young adults cannot possibly do a worse job.

The chance that they will do
a better job, in fact, is very good. Because they won't have ready made ideas.

WHy not? The Dems are the Complicit Party from get go. (are you awake Obama supporters?)

Vote for anybody but the two parties (Repugs and the Complicit)

Mr. Nichols

I am from Canada. We do not believe in you or your country anymore. Please go away and leave us alone. We will clean up the mess that you have inflicted on us. Just build a whole bunch of your fancy spaceships and blast off to Mars or some place. We have had enough of you.

Just to clarify, for like the upmteenth time:

The United States of America is not officially, nor Constitutionally, at "war" with any nation on Earth. Congress has not declared "war" on Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Somalia, or Pakistan, or any other sovereign country where "we're" killing and maiming and stealing and causing mass destruction.

No "war," no Commander in Chief powers, no "winning," no "victory." Unless we start telling the truth, our fellow citizens will not be motivated to rebel and revolt.

"Democrats Write a Blank Check For Bush's Two Illegal Occupations." Americans are brainwashed to believe they must give all benefits of the doubt to a President during "wartime" - but NOT during illegal occupation time.

Why do progressives and liberals continue to refer to the illegal occupations as one big "war?" Is it laziness? Is it a silly belief that words don't matter?

One more time: The USA is not officially, nor Constitutionally, in a state of war with any nation on Earth.

Grant: Very good comments! I agree with you and have come to the conclusion that the only way to change things for the better is a nationwide strike. That is real populism, not endless discussions. We do not have representative government in the US by and large, except at the local or county level at times, depending on the issues. Unless citizens become involved and take action against the power-elite, nothing will change.

Too many good-intentioned people still continue protecting the Democratic Party while they watch in amazement how the Dems cooperate with the Republicans in usurping the Constitution and Bill of Rights and every other piece of legislation that made this country great. If you are a liberal/progressive person, Obama is not your man in November. And look at the records of your local, county, state and federal politicians running for office and if they haven't supported the Kucinich impeachment bills, see if there isn't someone from another party (and I don't mean the Republican Crime Party) running for that position. Give them your support and your vote. And please, send Cindy Sheehan whatever you can to help fund her campaign against the national traitor, Nancy "impeachment's off the table", Pelosi.

Willybill is on target. Make 9/11/08 a day of NO WORK! I took off last year on 9/11, and will do so this year.

It boggles my mind to see how easily loyal "Democrats" can be virtually disenfranchised by the DNC and their mainstream media accomplices. How easily they accept the notion that there are only TWO candidates to choose between!

BOTH major parties encourage this mind-set! "Lesser Evil-ism" has been institutionalized by the Republicrat 'Establishment'. I wish I had a nickel for every time I've heard someone say, "I don't like EITHER candidate...so I'll stay home on election day!" This defeatist attitude is exactly what the Republicrats nurture among the electorate...to a point where America's two majority parties are free to limit the players and create their own brand of "Cosa Nostra" politics.

Stop letting them play this game...stop letting the Dems scare the bejeeezuss out of the voters by the threat of electing the "Greater Evil" candidate. We are told, during EVERY election cycle, that THIS election is the most important election in American history, and we cannot afford to vote conscientiously for ANY "Greater Good" candidate, lest it 'take votes away' from their predictably lackluster 'Lesser Evil' nominee, and "waste" our votes on a candidate who "CAN'T WIN".

As Dennis Kucinich observed, "If you vote for me, I CAN win!" Kucinich, Nader, McKinney advocate for precisely those issues that come closest to representing the Public Interest. Taken issue by issue, the views of these genuine progressives match the views held by a substantial majority of Americans. The trick is to inform the voters of that fact; and show them that if they ALL choose to vote, and proceed to vote their hopes rather than their fears of dire consequences, we could elect the kind of leader we deserve--the kind of leader that the party hacks and the pundits and professional prognosticators have assured us "CAN'T WIN".

For those of you saying in so many words, 'Here we go again, etc.'....absolutely. For those who have truly studied history/humanities from the beginning of records,"Here we go again'. We are even sacrificing animals, adults and small children - still - to ALL the various Gods that we value and demonstrate our beliefs through action. Not a whole lot of internal thought or meditation seems to go on by the majority of any group, using that term loosely. And, of course, there is the old cliche' "Either part of the problem or part of the solution".

With that in mind, I refer to one of my favorite words - However. However, there are solutions: 1) All Peace Action Groups become one and bring the country to a standstill. You know, everyone who is "fed up" stay home for one or two days. (Remember those dock workers?) Truly be non-violent and reteach Martin Luther King Civil Rights tactics and - well - follow through. 2) Cause the various Impeachment campaigns to enclude action against everyone who has had their pinky in the pie of war crimes, etc. I mean everyone. My, what an attention getter that would be! Oh, and bring the various campaigns together as one. 3) Distribute fliers, nation wide, on the subjects of ego deflation, opinions without backup, cooperative group dyamics and how they can work, really, guaranteed. 4) Thousands of people packing a picnic lunch and sitting together on a freeway/more than two-lane-road of their choice and not leaving. 5) Do a mass distribution of buttons that say Stop Whining. No Excuses. Am I getting silly - sort of but not really. All things are possible.

However, we just might be done with. So, shake a person's hand, any person's hand in this country and perhaps a few outside the borders, and say Thank you. After you have looked in the mirror and said the same to yourself.

"ladybug June 23rd, 2008 5:19 pm
Thomas Moore, I think you get it wrong 100% of the time"

Well, at least I'm consistent, thanks for the compliment!

I posted this on the FISA comment but it's relevant here.
There is only one way to stop these pigs and that is to support candidates who really are progressive. Here is a great website where you can contribute as much or as little as you like for candidates that are liberal and say so:
http://www.actblue.com/page/bushdemocrats
If you can't find a few bucks to help these courageous people out then quit complaining.

The "lesser of two evils" is too low a standard for me; this has gotten old. I'm through with the Democrats (and I'm sure not stupid enough to vote for a Republican).

Thomas Moore, I think you get it wrong 100% of the time

Where is DD to defend his party when it most needs him????

The "sameness" of the so-called two parties IS THE OLIGARCHY! That is the point! "They take it for granted that they will get the anti-war votes because we have no place else to go". Exactly. And folk who vote Democratic keep falling for it, over, and over, and over again. But THERE IS SOME PLACE ELSE TO GO. Go cold turkey on the duopoly. Yes. Cindy Sheehan has said that there is but one party. That IS what Nader has been saying for at least the past 4 election cycles? You just finding this out now? Better late than never.
_
And look at this quote: "...but "lesser-evilism" is what we are faced with now. Obama or McCain, there isn't another choice." YES! THERE IS ANOTHER CHOICE! God damn it. With "lesser" and "evilism" you will get either or both. Why can't you see that YOU create that other choice. You, that free human being (for now) that can tell the Corporate Party to shank itself, the one with the two heads: Republican and Democrat. Lesser of two evils IS ALL WE EVER GET. Stop sucking that in! And if you don't win this time. Then do it again, and again, and..... while being active otherwise. That's what we did in Vermont and we have four major political parties with 6 Progressive Party legislators in the house and a viable candidate for governor. The same old crap gets you the same old crap. Stop already. Run Ralph. Run!

www.votestrike.com

Today, I just received Kevin Phillips's latest book "Bad Money: Reckless Finance, Failed Politics, and the Global Crisis of American Capitalism" and am about 1/3 of the way through it (I have been reading it during my lunch break). so far, it is a very good read.

BTW for those of you who had not heard, today Cynthia McKinney endorsed Cindy Sheehan and has accepted a position as Honorary Co-Chair of "Cindy For Congress"

The first thing Nancy PeLousy did after the Democrats won Congress in 2006 was to remove the supplemental bill about the U.S. not being able to go to war with Iran without getting approval from Congress. This was in the Washington Post. So she gave the Chimp the green light to have Iran attacked whenever he wants, without Congressional approval.

When asked why she did it, she said that AIPAC, the leadership in Israel asked her to.

Just as Cindy Sheehan said, there is (only) one party in the United States -- the War Party.

If the Chimp thinks Obomba will win the presidency, he will have Iran attacked before his term is up; otherwise, he will leave it to McInsane.

There's hundreds of billions and trillions of dollars for unnecessary wars (our tax money) --- but no money for the crumbling infrastructure in the U.S., or for health care, education, jobs, housing, etc. Democrats are in the same league as the Republican war profiteers.

"RichM is one Cat on this site that gets it right 100% of the time"

Please....he makes some good points, but lets not get carried away, he'll start thinking he's right all the time.

"Dem Party apologists would still argue that we should vote for the Dems, because they're not as bad as Republicans."

I certainly wouldn't apologize for the Dems, though they need to do it desperately, but "lesser-evilism" is what we are faced with now. Obama or McCain, there isn't another choice. So I'll take the lesser of the two evils as soon as I figure out who it is.

The local level is the only place this will ever change. If you can't get State level Senators and Representatives, your local governmentsd to reflect your views, that means the majority of the citizens don't share your view so its a non-starter.

I'm tired of these stories/opinions about the sameness of the 2 political parties.

Face it! The U.S. is an oligarchy. Has been from day one.

Politicians' sons and daughters become politicians usually taking their parents position.

There are more poor people in the U.S. than rich people. It's the design of the economic system. If poor American are better off than other countries poor, it's because of the charity of the rich (but globalization will change that).

The population is giving 2 choices for president. Both choices come from the rich or, at least, owe their rich sponsors everything.

The U.S. needs a parliamentary system.

John Kerry marginalized the anti-war Democrats and Obama will do it again. They take it for granted that they will get the anti-war votes because we have no place else to go. If we go someplace else, maybe they will listen. Of course, it will mean 4 more years of national disaster, but then, just maybe, Americans might finally stop being so incredibly stupid and never elect another Repubican for at least a generation.

Do not castigate the House of Representatives only. The Senate has given Bush funds for the Iraq war and occupation several times. Among the Senatorial aye voters: Clinton and Obama. According to a Supreme Court ruling of 1990 these votes were the equivalents of Congressional declarations of war. Obama: you cannot fool me. You are a slick-Barack warmonger.

All Bush did was to escalate the already ongoing war and Iraqi holocaust perpetrated by Bush I and continued and escalated by Clinton. Imperial expansion and the capture of strategic resources is a bipartisan affair; it's the American Story.

Here is a little lesson in truth courtesy of Chris Hedges. Nichols might want to take it to heart given his status quo leanings:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/06/23/9822/

How are you going to break the corporate media's hold on reporting events such as this? Don't you see that the corporate media and the Congress are a tag team? And that watching the corporate media, listening to corporate radio, giving them your mind share is their modus operandi. As is, by the way, internalizing the idiom that there are only two presidential candidates worthy of voting for. You know, otherwise you will be "wasting" your vote. Just read what Democrats are saying about Nader's candidacy and notice the corporate line in it and to which lengths they will go in defending their complicity. The Democratic Party and the Republican Party, one giant Corporate Party demand brand loyalty. And so-called progressives are willingly brand conscious. Why? When is enough, enough? If not now, when? Run Ralph. Run!

jlocke123 writes, "If you elect more people like Cindy Sheehan, who are really against the illegal occcupation, you will find that more of the Democrats will be flushed out into the open, and that's a good thing for democracy."

I agree, but let's flush them elsewhere, leaving them in the open will only stink up the place. In fact, in most places, you can't leave human excrement lying around.

The dastardly repubs somehow managed to weave just enough golden rope for the demos to hang themselves on.

Strange silence lately from DD and chorus.

And, of course, my question to the Obama believers: Where is Mr. Obama on this issue?

And the truly vulgar part of this is Rahm Emmanuel voting for it. He led the charge to get a Democratic majority in Congress on opposition to the war. But, as he is a wretched hack for the Israel lobby, what would one expect?

Part of what made this vote possible was the failure of the media to report that this vote was coming up and how it was likely to go. (In this country, that is; it was reported in Europe!) Breaking the Corporate Media's hold on what most of the people know and see is critical to altering outcomes like this.

Another story that the Corporate Media has completely ignored is the fact that there is a resolution now before Congress, introduced a month ago, which calls on Bush to impose a naval blockade on Iran, an act of war! At last report it had accumulated 160 co-sponsors, 90 Republicans and 70 Democrats, and under the rules governing non-binding resolutions it could be passed with as little as twenty minutes' debate.

Vital stories of national interest are being completely or nearly completely suppressed by the Major Media. I have been finding and verifying one to three a week. The topics suppressed vary widely, but they all share the characteristic that it would obviously be inconvenient to the masters of the Empire for the people to know about them. Together with the fact that these stories then don't get chattered about, these omissions effectively steer the national conversation. Most are being picked up by sites such as CommonDreams, but our reach is not nearly great enough to alter outcomes.

If 10,000 people were to mail a link such as the one below regarding the Iran blockade resolution to 20 people each, and if half of those people were to pass it on it to another 20, it could theoretically reach 100 million addresses in just 4 steps! Could this happen? Probably not this time, but perhaps the idea will catch on and it will start working as people more and more people come to understand how much of what they need to know is being withheld.

I invite you to cut and paste the following "news chain alert" and send it to your address list, with the suggestion that the recipients do the same. I would recommend that you leave out any attempt to tell them what to think or do about it, so that this comes to be seen as being about transmitting news, not manipulating people. (I prefer to use simple news stories from reputable sources, but in this case there were none!)

*********************** snip *********************

*News Chain Alert*

Congressional Resolution 362 was introduced nearly a month ago, has reportedly now accumulated 160 co-sponsors - 90 Republicans and 70 Democrats - and reportedly could be passed under rules that allow just twenty minutes of debate, yet it has to date received NO coverage in the media!

If you agree that this story should have been on the news, and if you're fed up with our networks and daily papers not covering major and important news, cut and paste this message and email it to your address list with the subject line "News Chain Alert". Together we can break the news blockade!

*Is a New Congressional Resolution Declaring War with Iran?*
http://www.payvand.com/news/08/jun/1142.html

*H. Con. Res. 362: escalation of aggression towards Iran*
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/20/2556/57619/151/538861

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
"They must think we're mushrooms ... "

It wasn't just eighty Democrats.

Pelosi and the others could vote against the bill because, of course she can do the math and see that it will pass without her "overt" help. This is politics 101.

If you elect more people like Cindy Sheehan, who are really against the illegal occupation, you will find that more of the Democrats will be flushed out into the open, and that's a good thing for democracy.

I agree that Democratic voters are just as gutless and clueless at times as the crooks in government, most of whom are going to hell if there is one.

However, a lot of the blame is on the left themselves. There is a very small percentage of the people on the left who are really active, who educate people on the issues, spread NEW ideas that can take the place of the ones we still go on (which are hundreds of years old and outdated, including our liberal democracy) and are willing to move beyond the tactics used by the left in decades past. I organized before the war started, I passed out fliers to people here in San Diego (a military town) and did some mild civil disobedience (with about a dozen other people which accomplished nothing). I went to Frisco before the war, met people who felt the same way, marched down the street holding some signs, everyone agreed and the war started shortly thereafter. I honestly felt silly being there.

Nothing changes when you do things that don't challenge anything or anyone. The elites in both parties could give two craps about e mail campaigns, marches, protests where people shout at politicians, etc. They've seen it before, it doesn't threaten them, they laugh at us.

The only way to change things is to force the situation. The 60's tactics should have been a start, find out where the wall is and push it further. They're ok with marches? They don't scare them, threaten their interests? Ok, what does? How could we scare the crap out of these elites to let them know that if it continues they might not have power much longer. Is it time that they just don't have the power anymore to decide? THAT is what needs to debated. Anything short of it (marches, signs, e mail campaigns, calling into offices) will change nothing. Voting for the next liberal who acts like a right winger once in office and protects entrenched interests obviously doesn't work either. They don't care and the Democrats know that we on the left, if we persist with the mentality of backing one of the two major parties and working within this outdated liberal democracy, have no choice. Things need to fundamentally change and the Democrats will not do it. So, what are we on the left going to do other than bitch and the same old? Cause it ain't workin'.

RichM is one Cat on this site that gets it right 100% of the time; no wonder the sheeple don't like what he has to say.

Excuse me but the Democrats have been funding the Iraq war since it started. Is this actually news to a guy like Nichols?

RichM sez: "Suppose the Republicans ran on a 2-point platform that proposed, "1) Let's kill everyone else in the world & take all their stuff for ourselves, and 2) Cut the corporate tax rate to 2% ." And suppose the Democrats agreed with the first point, but argued that corporate taxes should be cut only to 4%."

***

Then, after heated negotiations, the Democrats would "compromise" the corporate tax rate to 0%.

Democrats are accessories to war crimes and murder as they do their part in betraying the people of the United States. Pelosi, Hoyer and the rest are no better than the scum we have currently occupying the White House. It would be great if a candidate like Nader could actually be elected but I believe that would take an extraordinary set of circumstances. I have more respect for Nader than any of the current players, millionaires, traitors or fools that occupy our precious time while manipulating us to the back of society's social and economic bus.

RichM, I've always thought your proposed scenario was factual. It isn't?

"But when one out of every three members of a caucus — including much of its leadership team — votes to help the president of an opposition party maintain a war that most American oppose, we're not looking at a case of leaders allowing mavericks to let off steam. We're looking at a case of a Democratic Party that is dramatically better at mouthing anti-war platitudes than exercising any sort of leadership."

NO. What we are looking at is literally organized crime, in yo' face and whattya gonna do about it? NOTHING. THATS WHAT. NOTHING. Maybe piss and moan some, but thats it.

Here's how lesser-evilism works:

Suppose the Republicans ran on a 2-point platform that proposed, "1) Let's kill everyone else in the world & take all their stuff for ourselves, and 2) Cut the corporate tax rate to 2% ." And suppose the Democrats agreed with the first point, but argued that corporate taxes should be cut only to 4%.

In this scenario, Dem Party apologists would still argue that we should vote for the Dems, because they're not as bad as Republicans.

Surprise!!!!!!! Not. Look: "Democrats were elected in 2006 to end the war in Iraq". They pulled your chain again. And now you are handing them the chain to pull again. Is this not the definition of dimentia? What MORE proof do you people need?
_
"We're looking at a case of a Democratic Party that is dramatically better at mouthing anti-war platitudes than exercising any sort of leadership". "A case". Mr. Nichols you mean "YET ANOTHER CASE!!!". Wake up. Wake up. Wake up!
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Run Ralph. Run!

I'll tell you what I think. The bottom line is sooner or later we are going to have to take back personal power to act for real change, each of us for ourselves, as well as collectively.

We have to change this system slowly in every way we can. We can start by cutting out our cynical, frightened and self-defeating voting patterns, by not hiding in our living room, by believing in third party and independents, by getting out and doing the right things.

With all our differences, we need to unite behind representatives who want the people to have the power in a democracy, not the corporations. There are people like this already, Kucinich, Nader, Sheehan, etc. All of these people believe that we the people should have the power in this country, not corporations and the war machine.

History isn't made in a day. Just look at any significant change that ever happened in this country. Things swing back and forth, that is the way the system works (or also doesn't work). There has to be an understanding of the historical process of change in order for anything positive to happen here.

There also has to be a fundamental understanding of the legislative process, how bills are introduced, what the process is that makes laws, and how to unmake laws.

We can't just be immature, negative and whine about it. We can't just give up on our personal ideals because we are not resourceful enough to fight for them, disciplined enough to work for them, or clear-headed enough to learn how things work and face reality.

We can't simply vote for the latest Kerry, "hoping" he turns out to be a decent guy. We all know that lurking underneath this is actually our own hopelessness. That didn't work in the last election, for Senate or for the House, or for the presidency. It's not going to work this time either.

We ought to respect ourselves and our ideals and not take any shit from anybody. Period.

Fellow CD poster: "The topics suppressed vary widely, but they all share the characteristic that it would obviously be inconvenient to the masters of the Empire for the people to know about them."

http://www.slaverybyanothername.com/other-writings

This has been going on for a long time now. It's time for people to reaize our true history. Whether at home or abroad, Master and his faithful have been running the show all along, with few respites.

Goebbels sez June 24th, 2008 2:02 am

Thanks. Though my wife tends to agree with ladybug.

Siouxrose June 24th, 2008 9:43 am

I get your point, but would you consider that they see what is presented by us too and it does have an effect on them.

Example...MoveOn's Gen. Petreaus ad. Only a small segment approved this ad. I found it offensive myself. So people see things put out by a radical minority and form opinions from them. I personally thought that ad set us back 6 months.

A friend has two son's in the Marine Corp in Iraq, she is dead set against this stupid occupation, one son believes in the mission, one dosen't, as far as her husband is concerned, Dick Vader would be well advised to not hunt on the same field with him.

But you should hear how they feel about Berekley and Code Pinks performance there. Not complimentary. They assume Obama and liberals and Democrats approve and want this kind of thing. I tried explaining that these folks do not represnt Liberals, but they weren't buying. (yet) I'm working on Bob.

See what I'm saying? Now the rest of you put down those rocks. This is just the way I see it.

TAIL CAP: Thank you for raising the MORAL price of the issue of war without justifiable cause.

THOMAS MORE: As per what our neighbors think with respect to political representation, what our neighbors think is a FICTION created by a PAVLOVIAN media system, or media-military-industrial system! This is an unfair premise, it's like teaching prejudice then asking what people think about others!

REBELNOW: If you catch this, the Jesus allegory was brilliant (on another thread. I was unable to post there, so I am adding my compliment here.)

They have signed their own 'death' warrent.
It's 'Nuremburg' for the whole lot of them.

These are not democratic Democrats. These are the corporate Republican DLC democrats that MUST be voted out in July, because no Democrat representing the people would keep funding a private war for right wing profit.

this is not the last of the "supplimentals" Every 3 months GW asks for more.

In Iraq, they mockingly call it "the freedom." Here in the United States, our freedom means a few things:

* Freedom to vote every four years for representatives who will ignore your wishes and the common good, substituting plutocracy for democracy;

* Freedom to choose between two parties that have style differences only, but not policy differences;

* Freedom to lose your employment, healhcare coverage, become homeless, be thrown in prison or be killed or maimed in imperial wars;

When your choice is no choice, you must do something different. When your "freedom" is prescribed by oligarchs, you should not cooperate.

Civil rights activist Mario Savio probably said it best, although he was just talking about campus speech rights at the time. He said the following:

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part, you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop! And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!"

I think those words fit the present context well. You should not accept vague promises from Repug and Dem candidates who have trashed the Constitution and diminished the commonwealth through senseless wars and occupations.

The fact is, you do have a choice. Vote third party. Make the machine stop.

This whole system craves the veneer of legitimacy and consensus. People will see clearly again when you withhold your consent.

Thomas More sez: "The local level is the only place this will ever change. If you can't get State level Senators and Representatives, your local governmentsd to reflect your views, that means the majority of the citizens don't share your view so its a non-starter."

***

I don't know if Thomas More gets it right or wrong most of the time, but he nailed this one.
I have no representation in congress because my neighbors sent a republican instead. In the limited coherent discussions I was able to share with a couple of them, these neighbors seemed more concerned with the non-existent Red Menace threat of a "liberal" candidate than they were with their own best interests.

You Big Weirdo sez: "And the truly vulgar part of this is Rahm Emmanuel voting for it. He led the charge to get a Democratic majority in Congress on opposition to the war."

***

Not so much. Emmanuel fought tooth-and-nail to keep progressive democrats off the ballot in favor of a coast-to-coast slate of DLC corporatists.
The few progressives who broke through the funding firewall actually did better against repugs in contested districts, but they remain a tiny sliver of your overall "representation."

Good luck, Cindy.

Why no call for a filibuster? Why are we letting these people off the hook.

We should at least demand it and see why "socialists" like Sanders, and other "progressives" won't stand against the war.

We need to go on www.dailykos.com and remind them of that promise to "end the war"

Thank you all for your support!
xo
Cindy
www.cindyforcongress.org

Yoo hoo... Daniel David... where are you?

Has anyone else noticed how conspicuously absent he's been in recent days on threads concerning the FISA bill and war funding?

Has the polcat gone to ground?

When Nancy Pelosi was elected Speaker of the House I was elated. What a beautiful elderly woman. The she took impeachment or Administration I asked myself "Is she out of her Mind?" Then I learned where he money came from, he lobbyist-tied millionaire husband and their California connections.

Now Cindy Sheehan is running against her in San Francisco. I spent a year in San Francisco. Sam Wo's had really good food. Chinatown. Sixties.

Cindy Sheehan is not a millionaire and if she has had a face-lift I will be eternally surprised. If Pelosi the traitor to the grass-roots Democrats of this nation has NOT had a face-lift (Plastic Surgury) I will be eternally shamed, merely for suggesting that there is any negative correlation between the false face of a Fascist Oligarchy/Duopoly and the fact that I cannot afford to get my teeth fixed.

Vote for Cindy Sheehan. Go jlocke. Precisely put.

-30-

"I will not vote for more American taxpayers' money going to Iraq..."

Being againt a colonial-style military occupation based on opposition to the tax dollars being squandered is like being against crime based on the cost of incarceration.

Nader, Green or third party.

Write a blank check to the democratic party, with $0 dollars.