WWF Warns Arctic Ice Melting Faster than Predicted

I’ve been reading the comments on this article and felt I’d like to add to them. There seems to be a general agreement that a certain brown material will hit the fan quite soon. Given the cause, I tend to agree with the implied inevitability of the situation. However, just in case anyone should be interested, I want to explain what I’ve found and tried to do. Just ordering a few parts is proving to be a slow exercise here in the UK; I’m thinking that maybe someone out there has the materials closer to hand and can try the idea quickly.

Overall, the idea is to give everyone the ability to “grow their own” energy commodity, such as hydrogen. You could use a mains driven electrolyser but everyone knows the process is too inefficient (30%?) to be worthwhile. The advantages of growing your own are obvious plus any implementation could be phased in gradually so as not to interfere with other peoples’ politics.

Some time ago I found a website with details of an experiment that had been carried out with magnets and a coil in which small values of charge had been generated and stored in capacitors. There was a major problem in that it could not easily be scaled up but the principle of direct conversion of the potential energy of a weight due to gravity seemed proved.

There must be someone out there who has built a PMA (Permanent Magnet Alternator) and maybe used it in a windmill. I built one some time ago and used it in a mini hydro system. It worked and I could generate small amounts of charge but it relied inevitably on a constant water supply. So I looked for a way to get rid of the need for water. I proved that small volumes of charge could be gained by small movements of the PMA shaft i.e. by effectively “bouncing” the magnets over the coils.

So, logically if a way could be found to bounce magnets (using some kind of elastic mechanism, rubber or springs say) and accurately glide them over coils, small volumes of electrical charge could be realised. Any number of coils and magnets could be used so scaling up would be a 2-pass affair i.e. a collection of bouncing magnets over several coils would comprise a device then because the devices are simple and cheap to implement and run they become cost effective to distribute on any vertical space (walls come to mind and there are plenty of them).

The crux is getting the magnets to fly accurately over the coils. I believe it can be done with permanent magnet separators i.e. magnetic repulsion. Ferrite blocks are old technology and they are easy to manufacture in all sorts of shapes and sizes but for me the acquisition has proved difficult. It’s not always easy to get small quantities for prototypes. There should be none of the problems necessitating high torque as in the windmill case because the proximity of the coils can be such that each coil is affected independently. Movement (in the form of SHM) is virtually zero damped due to the frictionless nature of the separators so the required input energy is minimal.

What you have at the end of the day is a cheap easily distributed tool to enable anyone (assuming they want to participate) the ability to help save the planet by generating their own fuel. They don’t have to use the fuel themselves either; it could be a source of income usable to offset their conventional fuel costs. The global idea is that in the future stocks of hydrogen would be such that replacements to generating plant could be made. In this way the current plant builds in any country are re-used but are rendered clean with hydrogen.

I said I had read the comments to the original article. I hope that someone reads my comment although I realise it's a bit late. If there is anyone out there who knows that this will not work I need to know ASAP as it will save a lot of effort and cash and I can happily start arranging my funeral knowing that nothing can be done.

Thanks at least for reading.

civil behavior .....

For one thing the NY Times in its unholy alliance with ExxonMobil over decades is still giving them a Soap Box on their Op-Ed page to lie to the public about Global Warming.
The Royal Academy of Science called ExxonMobil out on this
about 7 months or so ago, including the tens of millions they've spent to lie to and deceive the public.

The NY Times will not permit a Letter to the Editor to comment on an "Ad." However, letters to the newspaper and to the board and various other officials might be effective.

Additionally, we have to imagine there is a huge blockage of the alternative energy/electric car stimulus created by high prices, peak oil, pollution and Global Warming...

Otherwise, we would already have electric cars on our roads and nationalizing the oil industry on everyone's tongue.

GM/Detroit seems more a creature of the oil companies than a car manufacturing busines.

These things are quite obvious .... but we have to get those questions into the minds of the public, into the debates, into Congress.

If our government raised up a corporation to produce electric cars -- See: "Who Killed The Electric Car?" --
we could subsidize both ends of this - manufacture and purchase and we could replace every car on our highways in 5 years ---

PLUS bring the car manufacturing area to life again ---

Kem,

Thanks for the feedback. Just trying to figure out the easiest most accessible way for all of us to show daily dissatisfaction with Empire. I agree on the road rage. People are nuts.

I am working hard on the blogs to pass the bandana idea around though. I think it could be a great "substitute" for the fabric of choice to wave and wear.

I believe the blocking cars idea is not good. Road Rage, gunshots and crashes? But the bandanas at the Olympics, worn by athletes from every nation would be great, or in protest marches. After it catches on, everyone might start wearing them, even our congress.

Hi COCO. Tapping into it and using it? If all the methane gas were compared to a 9,300 gallon tractor trairor fuel load and we tapped into it and began to use it. It would take us 1,500 years to deplete it. We don't have 1,500 years. Besides I'm not sure if burning methane gas isn't jst as bad as burning natural gas and what that does to the global warming situation.

See we're already in the trash can with this one and it's only Friday afternoon.

KEM PATRICK

the link that greenspark posted about the mad scientists tapping into the methane says that using methane as a source of energy is viable (eventually). so i'm a bit confused...........if they think they can do it with this mound why can't they do with all? anyway, it's all moot cause probably all the tensions with iraq, iran, syria, israel might lead to something equally catastrophic.

Found this to be interesting as a potential short-term solution once the wider world finally realizes all at once that extinction might be on the way:

http://astrobio.net/news/article2309.html

Who knows if it'd work ...but hope dies last.

as long as this thread is up I think I"ll check in for comments.

And you are right. Time is running out.

I have really thought and thought about what will return more on our efforts since protests seem to come and go and then they (politicians)all go back to business as usual.

It's what brought me to the bandana idea. We need to have an ONGOING presence and one in which we can identify that we have numbers on our side which is why it is critical to get this part of our idea out there.
We need to SEE bandanas,

and so do THEY.

At which point so will the MSM.

Then we choose a target. An achievable target. Besides the last day of the month boycott of buying which is a good hit to them on the bottom line (dollars) we need to be inventive.

Those on this thread know that global warming is going to be a lot more critical quickly than even some of the other issues. So what do we do?

What is the one thing that exists in every town across America where we could make people think about carbon emisssions. Say a highway? How do we make a statement about carbon emissions on a highway?

Could we pick a commute time and find one or two or three friends (depending on how many lanes a highway is) and drive slowly (say minimum speed limit) close to side by side so no one could pass for three or four miles and make everyone slow down? Pick different stretches close to home and do that often? Just long enough and far enough and then get off the highway before the empire enforcers come along.

Make it seem as though you are going to pass each other but don't until you have an agreed upon exit or two. Split it up on more than one exit.

Is such a tactic too radical? Is it ineffective? Does it help?

I don't know. I am as as desperate for answers as each of you but I think we need to keep discussing this on these threads and get ourselves an answer because it's pretty obvious the empire isn't making any strides toward a solution from the top so I assume it's up to us at the bottom to force a trickle up theory.

Anyone else think of any actions we can take that can be done right in our own communities? The idea of driving is somewhat contradictory in itself but my focus is trying to target something that everyone can do locally and is plentiful.

Hey, Civil Behavior--Somehow I missed the bandana idea before!! Love it. Recycle1--RE your corporate headquarters idea: Why not take down their flag and raise the bandana WITH rhinestones. Big 'ens, because, Civil, tho I love your big idea approach, I really think that instead of one day of not buying something, we need to figure out how to STOP them. One day is not nearly enough for the very serious damage that stretches well beyond thousands of years into the past and the future. What you're suggesting is great--for a start. But we're not at the "start". Look around: There are hundreds of species being destroyed everyday. They don't have time for us to "start", nor to wait every month....We need to end to this death spiral. Off to work now!!

PS--This really is a great discussion. Thank you.

I just may take the rhinestones from my daughter's worn out jeans and do that, civil behavior.

You know, every year, science shows that these climate changes are happening faster than the previous year's models. Anyone see a disturbing pattern, here?

I can hardly wait for the first real nutcase to show up here today, never read a word of the article or the comments and tell us all the Arctic thaw is bogus propaganda being spread by Chicken Little "liberals".

Recyle 1,

Maybe rhinestones?

In all seriousness I am humbled that the notion of using a banadana to identify ourselves to each other might possibly catch on. on differnt blogs that I've mentioned it there has been positive feedback.

Any form of transportation you use should also sport one. I have one dangling from my bike.

I am semi encouraged at all the thoughtful and informed posts here at Common Dreams. I think one of the best blogs.

Greenspark,

I think your question is critical. How do we stop them?

A start is to stop buying ANYTHING on the last day of every month. Pass it on through your email lists. Pass on the bandana idea throguh your email list. Copy and paste.

Then we attack Empire where we know it exists. We have a whole island of EMpire right here across the bridge in Palm Beach. I am trying to figure out the most effective way to do something legally but something to make them VERY uncomfortable. Is ther anything near oyu of the same? A big corporate headquarters? Even a local Exxon mobil gas station? We have to make it legal and pointed.

And finally to Kem,
Trust me, I'm not arguing the methane point, I agree. Here in Florida living in the Gulfstream I can tell you we are noticing the effects of the warming now every day. The wind. WHat moves the wind? Heat. I can tell you for sure. It is getting worse out there in the North Atlantic currnet and we have are not making the necessary changes fast enough to stop this.

Thanks to all. Off to work. (on my bike!)

Let me point out again that if males here are really concerned about Global Warming they have to concern themselves with patriarchy and its suicidal instincts.

matti ---

QUOTE: matti April 25th, 2008 2:23 am
“Mother Nature” will only stop them if “she” is against the idea of a World free of ice.

Why would she be exactly? UNQUOTE

The question isn't a world free of ice.

The question is a rapid, forced change which will create havoc - chaotic weather conditions.

The impact on the planet, itself, may also cause it to disappear.

That's why Mother Nature wouldn't like it ---!

I guess this is why Bush did nothing to clean up and fix NO after katrina. He knew it will be under 50 feet of water in our kids life time.
As for the point of no return, yes the ice will come back one day after the so called smartest animal on the planet has killed itself off.

KEM PATRICK on wartime effort---the posts are incredible today. Let me add: a lot became clear for me by studying the temp dev/CO2 ice core data chart as depicted in IPCC and Gore pubs/movie/book (its important to get the book, "An Inconv Truth" so you can stare at the chart; also on line w/ipcc). We are either insync with or the cause of a spike (of which there have been 3-6 previous)on this chart, I think the former, and past the tipping point, so am inclined to think that our wartime effort should be to save knowledge and viable communities for long term survival. So that centuries from now someone will be able to do more than emerge from a hide covered hut and listen to the shaman say "When sky turn black, many people die." Humans have made it through all of these spikes, albeit in life styles very different from ours...Saving some knowledge would be good, so whoever's left won't have to start from scratch. Then, again, the levels of GHG already extremely beyond historical norms might mean we've screwed the pooch, and have only to be nice to each other and hope that the Hindus are right.
cheers

Hmm...how to make that bandana stylish...

How sad it is-that for so long the republican party convinced everyone that global warming was just a liberal scare tactic. What political whores the republicans truly are!

Yay, matti!!!

Kem: Yes, I agree. However: "What honestly confuses me is, why the powers who be...etc, ___ why they can’t see that they are going to allow their children to die also..."

They don't care. Your question gives them credit for the possibility they care, or, at least, that they will care in time. The time is up. They don't care.

As Bill BRG said: "We are the people we’ve been waiting for. By default."

The question remains: Why do we allow them to continue producing, distributing, consuming, extracting, and destroying?

"Mother Nature" will only stop them if "she" is against the idea of a World free of ice.

Why would she be exactly?

I think too many have become too used to the idea of Death as an Ending -however unpleasant.

Buck up, there's a lot of work to do before we go.

Because we all will, Killer Gas or no.

Let's just hope Ma will see the good in us, and give us another chance.

Anyway have fun, we're MORTAL, but we can still have FUN.

-matti.

Many of the scientists looking at global warming, I believe, have been conservative about their estimates. In addition, the various feedback loops (darker surface absorbing heat, increased methane release, negative impact biologicval processes) are having more effect than expected.

The scientists who have been following these trends are rightly alarmed.

To anyone who thinks we should wait until scientists, even just the honest ones are 100% positive, try applying your car/bike brakes only when you're about to hit something. That's the analogy for your logic. Think how long it takes a supertanker to stop.

We've damaged so many parts of the atmosphere, biosphere and most ecosystems on the planet that stuff's hitting the fan.

At a time when the US needs leaders that have the best qualities of our best leaders historically and then some,we have the criminal gang in the White House.

We are the people we've been waiting for. By default.

Well I do fear, Mother Nature is going to stop them.

What honestly confuses me is, why the powers who be, those who actually control almost everything, the oil, the money, the gold and silver, diamonds and pearls, the uranium and coal mines, the food and fuel, insurance corps, shipping, the military, the weapons manufactures, etc, ___ why they can't see that they are going to allow their children to die also.

But in fact there's bad news, as in this article and as a good number have reminded us about the methane, and there's worse news, because these maniacs are intending to destroy EVEN MORE with this insane project: http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/415215 \ Scientists unlock frozen natural gas UNIVERSITY OF VICTORIA Methane hydrate deposits are vast potential energy source; researchers had problems with a consistent flow of thawed gas Apr 16, 2008 04:25 PM THE CANADIAN PRESS

How do we stop them? That is the question. Stop asking whether or not and how to (continue to) be, but ask how do we stop them. Changing our lightbulbs is NOT going to stop them. It's not WE who create the biggest messes. Yes, personal change matters, but it is NOT enough. The biggest messes are created by the industrial infrastructure. How do we stop them?

Amazing to see a denier active on this thread. Like seeing the last dodo just before it died. Leaving aside the fact that the proposition that temperature has fallen in the last ten years is wrong (as others have pointed out above) and wrong-headed, it is hard to comprehend a mentality of someone who reads that the Arctic ice is melting much faster than anyone predicted (and remember that climate scientists have been forbidden from predicting their worst fears because then they were accused of alarmism) and then denies the accelerating warming process that is causing this. A strange blindness that might cause someone to, say, keep denying that their refrigerator thermostat wasn't working while wading through ankle deep water ice melt in the kitchen. Forget about the actual temperature figures for the moment. You would have to be deaf and blind, or blinded by ideology, to not see the drastic changes already occuring in the climate and geography of this little planet. So why do they keep doing it (http://www.blognow.com.au/mrpickwick/Climate_change/)? I guess the last dodo will go to his grave silent, leaving the rest of us to face other extinctions, including, in all probability, our own.

The phytoplankton are in serious trouble also. Is there anything at all we can discuss that's fun?

You got it Michalec. That's if we have a depression. If we don't solve the global warming, there won't be anyone left to wear the armbands or live at 600 foot elevations. If we don't solve the global warmng and stop polluting our oceans, the plant form of plankton, or phytoplankton will all die.

Http://whyplankton.com

KEM -- and the ~mongolian~ tuva singers are DOUBLY good at carrying a tune

I think it's already too late.

Okay, I'm down. Blue and white bandana. Meantime, all of you: get a book called Back to Basics by Reader's Digest. Best survival manual ever written. A hunting rifle and 6 mos supply of bullets. After that there will be very few humans left alive. Beware the Eaters - many folk will turn cannibal. Get a recurve bow and learn to use it [avoid the compound], find info on how to straighten shafts for arrows. Get out of the city. They will die badly. Find like souls and learn to trust each other. Cooperation is the only route to survival. BTW, plankton produce 60% of the world's oxygen. When the seas get fresh water on the surface, plankton will die. Plan on living between 400' above sea level and 800 ' above sea level. the new habitable zone. Get off your couch and get back into shape. Stop eating junk food and red meat. Buy backpacking gear - it is survivalist. It will hit the fan, and sooner than anyone is predicting. You cannot prepare for every contingency, so be a generalist. Maybe those of us who wind up wearing the armbands could be the groups with whome to cooperate.

The Russians interned three B-29s and kept them, they copied them almost rivet to rivet and had a fleet of B-29s. Later, they obtained the plans of Boeing's B-52, which they copied and which was a high wing aircraft, unlike the B-29.

However the design features of both aircraft were similar in many ways as to frame structure and assembly procedures. That all made the Bear possible. Which is an excellent, very long life aircraft. They also used Boeing's manufacturing procedures for many other excellent Russian aircraft.

When they built the Bear, they did not have the technology for jet engines required to power it properly. They hadn't mastered the twin spool compressor jet engine. One can develop tremendous horsepower with a turbo- prop with a much smaller, less powerful radial flow designe, or the single spool axialflow compressor jet eingne powering the props gear box. So that's why it was a turbo prop. TheBear is somewhat close in performance to a B-52, with less top speed and less range.

If we worked hand and foot with Russia, China, India, England, Australia, Canada, SoutAmerica, Mexico, all of the European nations, Japan, Great Britian, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Korea, both North and South, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Isreal, Mongolia, Africa and the Netherlandds, etc. working together to develop clean energy, we could win the global warming war.

Mongolia??? __ Well, they did once rule the world, ___ a lot of it.

This study was reported on tonight's The National

http://www.cbc.ca/national/latestbroadcast.html

Seems that the bears are getting thinner.

Strange weather we've been having lately.

Here, from most fatalistic to least, is my list of human responses to the Big Fart:

Worst: Build greenhouses with good airlocks. Move in. Dr. Strangelove reminds you to take beautiful women with you.

Second worst: Develop oxygen extractors. Breathe out of them.

A bit better: Find catalysts that convert methane into water and CO2. Maybe ultraviolet rays shot horizontally and a bit upwards into the atmosphere from mountain tops would decimate the methane molecules without messing with our troposphere. Platinum catalytic converters work on a small scale. Also, certain plants, notably palms, gobble up organic compounds in the air. Plant a billion of these plants.

Better: don't let the Arctic melt. Build barriers across oceans so that wave action doesn't tear the fragile Arctic ice apart.

Paint the land white, perhaps with little white pebbles, perhaps with mirrored material which reflects heat back into space, perhaps with white paint applied all over stony mountains.

Put thousands of tons of water vapor into the upper atmosphere from mountain tops every day, creating cirrus clouds which block the sun. We currently do this with jets every day (except for 9/11/01, when all jets were grounded and the U.S. got hot all of a sudden!)

Turn the deserts greener, with seawater pumped from sea level and with mangrove forests. More green means CO2 is eaten and deposited into the topsoil. We need a grand strategy of using as much of the earth as possible for eating CO2 and methane as well as possible.

Much better is to get rid of the human causes of global warming. We can and should convert building heating to solar, building cooling to heat pumps or seasonal cold storage, electricity to wind, non-photovoltaic solar or geothermal with backup storage methods such as pumped hydro or air pumped underground under pressure, cars to wind-generated electric battery power.

Best, we need to live in peace and to work together as one world to care for the earth. The current oil war is outrageously expensive in terms of CO2.

I have a strong feeling that new methods for all of these objectives can be invented by a reasonable committee. Perhaps someone else has already invented the wheel, and your committee just needs to do your research and find this invention.

Didn't the US "leak" the B-29 plans to justify building the B-52 and to accelerate the arms race even more ?

I love the story of the B-29's "upgrade" via re-engineering into "Bear" ( with much re-tooling to be mass produced, and more robust ) - a good idea is worth improving it into a great idea !

This is prototypical of collaboration and cooperation - which is what we really need most these days - especially internationally across war-torn lines.

Humankind depends upon it

Interesting Cold War corollary - the B-29 project continues. The USSR copied interned B-29s and eventually modified, upgraded, and improved them into the "Bear" long-range supersonic bomber, using swept wings and turboprop engines. (A combination, by the way, which Western experts insisted was unworkable.) These "Bears" were the West's primary Cold War "opponent", the counterpart of the B-52 which was constantly on SAC's "Red Alert". So in a way, the B-29 project lead to our spending trillions on MAD during the long, cold war. The "Bear", in upgraded form, still serves as first-line equipment with air forces from the Ukraine to India.

On topic, I doubt that humanity can be motivated to save itself, even as I watch Al Sharpton and Pat Buchanan on the tube asking us to start doing something. I fear life on Earth will be just another sacrifice on the altar of capitalistic greed.

What a great bunch of comments here. Thank you ~Civil Behavior~. A swell idea. A blue and white bandana?___ Like our world's colors as seen from space.

~GTC~ You wanted a date for the end of it all, the Rupture? ___ A week from this Friday. __ We're gonna miss ya GTC. You too, Maplefudge.

I posted this three days ago, but like this thread which will be in the archives cellars here by Saturday, few saw it. Those links you provided are good ones Maple Fudge and InDeepshit. __ Kinda got a kick out of the Arctic methane one, which stated this is a wakeup call. Actually the wake up call was well written in 2004.

This is briefly what I wrote previously. It's my opinion, which is worth whatever any wish it to be worth. As the link MapleSugar offered, we must have a WARTIME effort.

Wartime? Yep, a MASSIVE "World Wide" wartime effort, to cut coal and oil burning by 90% or more in four years time. It that possible, feasible, affordable and or necessary?

It's vitally NECESSARY and the sooner the better, 2020 may be too late and 50% won't hack it. Currently China plans to build another 1,000 coal fired plants and we are bulding many also.

Affordable? We humans spend trillion$ preparing for and fighting wars. We all need to join hands, place our swords aside and fight a vitally necessary war. A war against global warming would be less expensive too and create millions of decent paying jobs.

Feasible? The technology to produce clean energy and far enough to provide the world's needs is proven. Geo-thermal, solar, wind, wave and tidal are already being used, but not near the extent required.

Is it possible? ___ Of course it is, if we really want to and need to. A few examples of what can be accomplished for a killing war in four years. In America alone, __Janurary of 1942- thru Aufust of 1945, we built the "Big Inch" the largest oil pipeline ever.

It ran from Texas, over hill and dale, across mighty rivers, over and through mountains, through swamps and forests, it snaked all the way to northern New Jersey. Most of the way it was buried underground and it was finished in a year. It worked, ___ still does.

The Manhatten Project, the largest and costliest project ever. Well, ___ actually it wasn't. It got the silver medal. Boeing's B-29 bomber project was larger and costlier.

The "Alcon Highway", men and women of every race, color and religion teamed up and finished that raod which also snaked it's way all the way up through Alaska in less than a year, working in frigid weather they opened a road that was impossible to build. It was a rough road then but it worked.

In addition, we formed a military of millions, we clothed, fed, housed, trained them to fly, sail, fight and equipped them to fight a damn war. We produced millions of vehicles, aircraft and ships, cannon, machine guns and bombs. We insured our troops were well fed, had mail, home knitted wool sweaters, cookies and homemade fudge from home. ___ We and our allies didn't lose that war and it didn't break the bank.

So now we need and MUST fight a non-killing war, a far more important war, one that if we don't win ____ we ALL lose and the world's children will not have a fair shot at life.

Like Walt Disney so well gave it to us, "It's a small world after all". And I'd add, the only world we have. ___ We are killing the only water planet known to exist in the entire, ever expanding Universe. We must attempt to save it __ and the children. We owe that to them, they didn't create this mess.

Meanwhile, folks, let's all make clear that patriarchy, patriarchal religions, patriarchal hierarchies in government, education, sciences -- all add up to suicide.

The founders saddled us with compromises upending nature once again by sidelining the human beings who are the majority of the people on the planet --- women.

They saddled us with elites as they dispensed land -- and signed on with slave owners, setting us up for the Civil War.

We've also been saddled with capitalism which is anti-democratic -- a ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill System."

One of the things we can do is to push for world-changing questions to be put to candidates --- questions about nationalizing our natural resources, about electric cars,
about universal single-payer health care, about the FED, a private bank making the political decisions about our economy. About the bankrupting of our Treasury, about the need for peace and an end to pollution and weaponry.

One of the saddest aspects of GW is that we cannot either take for granted that only our species will disappear ---
there is no guarantee that the planet itself may not disappear.

QUOTE:
jposty April 24th, 2008 3:43 pm
I am neither a denier nor a republican… I am simply a logical minded skeptic who refrains from knee-jerk reactions until the science is conclusive and in 100 percent in agreement with itself.

-James
www.thepoliticus.orgUNQUOTE

As has been explained over and again, in science this agreement on GW is pretty much unanimous.

Meanwhile, wouldn't it have been better to have understood this back in let's say . . . 1957, than now?

Why? Because we need time to react to coming catastrophe and the faster we understand it and react to it, the likelier we'll survive.

Sik Willy,

Heres' something for you especially.

Two thousand years ago a Roman senator suggested that all slaves wear white armbands to better identify them. “No”, said a wiser senator. “If they see how many of them there are , they may revolt.”

It is very clear we have come to a crossroads. We have a choice to make.

We can choose Empire

OR

We can choose Earth Community.

We can choose to continue to be slaves to the Empire or we can choose to build on a new Earth Community.

If you choose Earth Community then let’s start by choosing a symbol that EVERYONE could easily obtain. Nothing fancy just something that anyone has in their drawer and can identify with the simplicity of Earth community.

Let’s start the revolution. The Bandana Revolution. Let us see how many of us there are.

A bandana is a simple easy symbol that can represent solidarity for Earth community and be used as a visible signal that you reject Empire.

Take a bandana and

Tie it on your car, your briefcase or your bag.
Wear it on your head, your neck or your arm.
Hang it in your house window, tie it to your mailbox.

The power of seeing others on the street who have the same beliefs, courage and desires to transform our world will be visible to all easily and quickly.

Let us really see how many of us are wiling to support our cause. Remember, they are few, we are many but we need to see who we are. Let’s show the world how many of us believe we can change knowing we are not alone.

As a human species, we need to engage, globally, in dialogue that will help bring our collective interests and objectives into focus. There is bound to be disagreement as to how to get there and who to lead it, but make no mistake the ultimate prize is seeing the numbers who support the revolution to oust Empire and build an Earth Community. The bandana revolution would simply be the way to identify the many as opposed to the few.

Unity is what we who choose to communicate our support for the idea of Earth Community must visually show to any leader or leaders. That is what the symbol does

And to really make our point if everyone didn't buy one single thing on the last day of every month until DC gets the message and starts getting serious about what is happening we will have taken back our country. Nothing speaks louder to DC than money (or the lack of it). One day, the last day of every month, don't buy a thing. No gas, No food, No movies, No nothing. One day, the last day of every month until we see some honest to goodness changes. Not a hardship for us but certainly will make our point. Make them understand we mean business. Our business, not theirs.

Psssssst.................do something!!!!!! Pass it on..................It's time..........

P.S.
This is what another poster on Common Dreams wrote back to me a few days ago when I posted the same thing above:

Yes, bandanas!! I been wearin’ one for years anyway. They are the all-around earth-lover’s protection, wipe, tool, and symbol of the wild and free, the untrammeled, the lover of natural and left-alone corners, a shade to eyes so damn tired of peering out into the carnage and insanity… So let’s try bandanas! Let everyone use those colors they most appreciate, let the symbolism of color enliven this hopeless task, a task nevertheless (exactly like the bodhisattva’s to “aid in the illumination of all sentient beings”…) completely necessary if our pitiful species is to survive this century… See you in the streets……Pick a day. Mine is Friday noon. Pick a sign: Mine say things like “we are STILL all complicit in an illegal war”….and “stop the torture”….These is a lot of power out there just waiting to be made use of. Nothing like a good cause huh…

P.P.S.
Made me almost want to cry....
GREAT BOOK: The Great Turning by David Korten. You'll love it.

Mad Max as a retirement planning primer. That's hysterical!

I learned the term "Bush Meat" last night. When the fish and crops in Ghana fail, they eat everything that moves. Gazelles, elephants, wild hogs, lions, birds - anything. Those deer that run in front of our cars and all those Canada geese that poop on everything will disappear overnight. So will fish, bears, bison, rabbits, squirrels, wolves... It would be a shame.

Here is the latest report about the methane situation in the Arctic, dated April 17, 2008:

Melting methane: A Storehouse of Greenhouse Gases is Opening in Siberia
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,547976,00.html

And another ominous sign....
Carbon dioxide, Methane up sharply in 2007
http://au.news.yahoo.com/080423/2/16lfb.html

I found some hope here.

http://www.earth-policy.org/Books/PB3/index.htm

Hi all! Wow, these climate articles just keep coming!

Let's get back to what Buffalo Ken brought up at the begining of this discussion.

"I get tired of many of the posters here who are fatalistic because it seems to be a self-fulfilling way of thinking. As simple as it sounds, I think we need to start learning collectively and stop behaving so selfishly so that we can understand how we got to this moment and then take actions to remedy the situation as best we know how given our place and time."

So climate change is going to screw us, the world is going to go into civil unrest, disease, famine, extinctions, all that negative stuff.

Buffalo Ken, great post up top. What are we going to do? Here's what I'm attempting:
This is waking me up. It's waking me up to MY path. Collectively, are we screwed? Yeah, probably. Individually, are we screwed? That's up to us individually. During these trying times you will be tested. Right now you are being given a choice. Here is the choice: will you choose altruism, heroism, compassion, love, hope, faith, goodness, kindness, taking care of your neighbor whether across the street or across the ocean. Will you sacrifice for these things? Will you care more for the well-being of others, whether family or strangers than you will for yourself? Will you sacrifice your selfishness, your greed, your hate, your fatalism, your cowardness, your lack of action, your state of being so that there is still good when things are so bad?

These choices don't have to be made all at once. They are a work in progress, but we have to begin the work! Work at being the good things until you no longer have to work at it. When you reach that state, nothing can screw you.

This is the catalyst for humanity's next state of being, a conscious, productive, creative relationship with a loving, caring, abundantly providing Mother Earth.

Your other choice is to partake in the anarchy, hate, fear, and civil unrest that will eventually rear its ugly head.

www.oneplanetonelife.com

Kem,

Not that it's not important to reference the 2004 article it's just that pointing to a current article substantiates that it was not just an anomaly. In fact, the conjunction of the two of them only serves to support the argument that methane IS escaping into the atmosphere at rapid rates that had predicted to be much slower.

It's now become the rate of feedback providing impetus to the forcings that will be our undoing.

What's absolutely unfathomable is that the corpratocracy and their powers are talking about how they can find more fossil fuel to burn while we are watching the planet temperatures rise.

I think after these last 8 years without a fully engaged world population willing to cut back on everything they have been used to doing in the developed countries and we certainly aren't going to stop the developing countries from coming up to where we are.

In my estimation we are beyond help. We have reached a point where the feedback has already tipped the scales. Enjoy your family and friends, do what you can to cut back in the interim but unless you see a major drive for global participation the empire has brought is to the edge and thrown us over.

It's a sad testament to what at one time I thought was a decent people and nation. Just taking a look around with everyones ears glued to a telephone and media being complicit we have no brains left.

Hey KEM you like the name? You're gonna love the actual fudge. Look for me at Burning Man. I'm the tall one with the fudge.

GTC is right.
Don't forget about peak oil. While it might seem to come as a relief that we've managed to burn half the world's oil, we have not been preparing as we should for a world with REALY expensive oil.
Since our entire way of life is predicated on cheap oil we here in 'Murka, land of the worlds most well equipped military, are gonna be mighty uncomfortable.

Erratic weather and rising sea levels may pale in comparison to the resource wars that could result.

But don't worry about heating your house. We still have a three hundred year supply of coal.

GTC- I'd buy a farm while housing prices are down, but before our economy collapses. Probably be a good idea to buy a few guns too.

GTC looking to plan your 'golden years' ? I found a terrific guide that helped me get oriented and fortunately it's in three parts on DVD.

Mad Max (the Road Warrior)
Mad Max (whatever the second one was)
Mad Max (beyond thunderdome)

My thought was to hoard fuel in a cave in the desert, then trade it for a durable armored vehicle, then use that to gain admittance to one of the armed compounds, or to a group like The Toe Cutters, or maybe an alliance with MasterBlaster. So much for golf and grandkids!

I knew these neocons were stupid but you have to wonder how anybody could believe the weather will have no effect on them.

I guess because they never go outside (home garage-car-underground parking) it's easy for them not to think about it.

Still, the fact that the wealth they have hoarded could evaporate overnight must have occurred to them.

The methane gas releases will simply be the coup de grâce. Before that happens, shortages of oil, natural gas, metals, other raw materials, water, and food will cull the human population. Pollution will take a further toll. Finally, widespread warfare and genocide will collapse what is left of civilization, further spreading disease and famine.

It no longer seems like an “if”, so much as a “when”. If anyone has a plausible time line, I would like to see it. It would make planning my “golden years” much easier.

BBR 001- thanks for trying to comfort me, but I think I'd be disappointed to see us survive in spite of ourselves.

No need to go back to an article that was published in 2004 you say???

No need not to, it's more appropriate today than it was in 2004, we just lost four years not paying attention to it. Besides it's easily available on the internet, so I posted the link.

Here it is again in case any missed it. Takes two minutes to read and since it's the most important issue we face, we should read it. Another excellent book on the subject is, __ "When Life Nearly Died", by Benton.

http://www.energybulletin.net/3647.html

Hi KALBIN and MAPLEFUDGE, you are not wrong with what you wrote, not at all, we all must do what we can, you're absolutely correct.

The major problem is, that's not near enough. It's burnng coal and oil that has to stop. If not stopped, world wide, there is no hope for our children and theirs. That's not fair or right, they didn't create this mess.

That Maplefudge name is neat, love it.

Hey maplefudge:

Maybe the methane calamity or another ice age, or who knows what worst case scenario won't happen. It won't be the end, but maybe a new start for humanity.

We have to turn the corner and get to sustainable CO2 emissions some time between now and 2050. Its probably too late to maintain our mobile, spoiled, status and consumerism driven society, but we will probably survive.

No need to go back to an article written in 2004. Here's one that is current and pretty much a clear picture of where we are today.

Not so good is it?

Doesn't matter folks. 95%of the worlds population has no intention of changing their lifestyle. There isn't a politician alive today that can do enough to save the planet. We should have already been implementing cutbacks and instead we are still adding up to 2% more every year.

The methane hydrates in the ocean floor WILL kill us.

For two great books read:

Under a Green Sky by Peter Ward (about the warming_

The Great Turning by David Korten (about empire)

They are inextricably linked.

is anybody else finding it difficult to picture a future anymore? How do we plan our lives in this apparent endgame? I know that all my silly plans to make art, films, music, literature have fallen by the wayside - feels like arts and crafts in the Titanic lounge. The dreams and aspirations that WERE my life are gone. Now the question is 'what then must we do?" How to be a good man in this dying world? I know, wah wah wah, but I bet a lot of us are asking the same thing. Is this a good time to start a family? My job requires that I drive - should I quit? Do I dare to eat a peach that's come two thousand miles by plane? Is it wrong to fly home to see my dad before he dies? Maybe the rules of how to live 'right' are changing too fast for everybody. I gotta admit I'm baffled.

It's time to start coming up with our own solutions NOW!!!
Our government is in the oil business so we can count them out.

Telecommuting would be a great start. Lets get folks off the road... QUICKLY!. Urge your employers to support this. Or better yet just do it.

Use a clothes line instead of a dryer.

Shower every other day.

There are so many things we can do that don't require purchasing the latest engery star appliance or the newest prius.

We seriously need to take this into our own hands. Look around, figure out how you can change your habits and urge everyone around you to do the same.

Hi ~REBELNOW~` It is funny, makes me chuckle and shake my head at times also, but it's not Ha-ha funny for sure.

Of all the serious issues, global warming and the resulting methane gas escaping into our atmosphere is by far the __MOST__ serious issue humanity faces.

Watched a science program this week, where the surface waters on a large lake in the Arctic are churning from escaping methane. That lake has been frozen for millions of years. It ain't frozen now and neither are hundreds more.

bbr-001: "What will we do then?"

Panic.

Hi ~JPOSTY~, if NASA is correct and you're correct, explain why the Arctic perma-frost is thawing at an alarming rate and has not thawed for over five million years.

I can offer a reason. Global warming is causing a "Green House" effect and the heat in the atmosphere is being trapped and is not escaping from the outer atmosphere as it should. So It does not matter if the sunbeams are now striking the planet as would be expected in a normal geological cooling period.

Sorry bud, global warming is the key and we humans are not having a world wide effort to correct it. So when the Arctic methane burps, stock up on bottled oxygen. You and I might consider starting that now, but I doubt we'll have anyone one else blogging comments here at CD.

It isn't the 400 gigatons of methane gas in the Arctic burping out that's gonna do us in. What that will cause is a horrific increase of global warming and then the methane gas in the ocean's floors will suddenly burnp out. When that happens and it will, within a few hours we'll be just as extinct as the other Dodo bird is.

Regarding temperature, 2007 was on its way to being the hottest year ever, but the last quarter saw some cooling. Maybe it was La Nina or all that ice falling in the drink. 1998 was hot for several reasons, the solar cycle was on the increase and it might have been an El Nino year. Other years since have been close, but if you find the right spot on the charts, you can say its cooler than 1998.

The solar cycle has been at a minimum 2005 - 2007, but despite that, the average temp was quite high and, of course, the record Arctic melts occurred. The solar cycle is due to ramp up and peak during 2011 - 2012. The experts are divided on how intense it will be, but agree it won't set any sort of record.

I'm no expert, but the solar cycle mostly means sunspots that emit huge amounts of radiation. One theory is some of this extra radiation hits the earth. It also collides with cosmic rays coming from outside the solar system. Cosmic rays help clouds form, therefore fewer clouds (and less rain?).

So then more energy hitting the earth in 2011 and more CO2 to hold it in. Fewer clouds for hotter days, but also may negate that CO2 causes hotter nights, and maybe expect less rain. Few clouds in the arctic and antarctic anyway, so increased CO2 makes nights warmer there... On and on... Then there is El Nino...

Bottom line: If climate change is for real, and it probably is, there won't be many skeptics after 2012.

What will we do then? Its probably already too late to build the hundreds or thousands of nuclear plants and/or windfarms needed to keep us all commuting in cars, living in single family homes, (and staying up all night with a light reading and on posting on CD).

Maybe we should stop making ridiculous corn based gasohol and start stockpiling grain. Not for the US, but for the rest of the world.

If we whom agree on most things can sit here and argue among ourselves . . . What then can be expected of all those "OTHERS" that inhabit this world and what they have to say . . . .
A dilemma indeed . . .

But you're not logical minded, James. Two of us have pointed out that you cherry-picked the data. All so-called "skeptics" do this from Holocaust deniers to those who deny tobacco causes lung disease. It's the age old way of creating uncertainty amongst scientific illiterates so that nothing gets done. You are, in fact, enabling Bush's policies which is why Habitat called you a Republican.

You have had two requests for a citation for your NASA "fact", but have failed to provide one. Are you afraid your "fact" doesn't stand up to scrutiny? And I hardly think thousands of scientists analyzing millions of data points over thousands of years of data all pointing to the same conclusion is "knee-jerk".

If you understood science at all, you would know that a theory is never, and I mean never, 100% conclusive. This is why they are called theories. But we can make a reasonable assumption that they are likely to be true, and act on it, or be reasonably likely to suffer some serious consequences.

James (jposty),

"... until the science is conclusive and in 100% agreement with itself." FYI, with the complexities inherent in global-scale weather I don't think you'll ever get 100% conclusive agreement. But we're up around 98 or 99%. That's good enough for me, even if it isn't for you.

Knee-jerk reactions? Scientists (not Time Magazine covers from the 70s, nor Fox News, etc) have suspected global warming since at least 30 years ago. I knew someone who had worked on CO2 ice samples with the British RAF in Antarctica. That was in 1975. If anything, the kneejerk reactions come from the other side of this issue. By a mile.

You're a logic minded skeptic? Fine, that's your opinion of yourself.

I am neither a denier nor a republican... I am simply a logical minded skeptic who refrains from knee-jerk reactions until the science is conclusive and in 100 percent in agreement with itself.

-James
www.thepoliticus.org

James,

Bidelo is spot on in pointing out that global temps rise and fall in a "herky-jerky manner." And BTW, your Republican talking point about a one degree drop in the last ten years is scientifically meaningless and intentionaly deceiving.

First, the one degree drop (about .4 Celcius) was for one section of the US (IIRC, Northern Plains) and was from 1997 to 2007 or similar timeframe. For your information, you CANNOT EXTRAPOLATE THE ENTIRE WORLD from what goes on in one portion of one continent.

Second, and most importantly, that mythical one degree "cooling" referred to a decrease in how much above average the temperature was - ie, it was still above average, but not as much as the previous year.

Example: Let's say summer of 2006 (here in the Midwest), each week averaged 10 degrees above the historical norm. That would be an anomoly of +10. But then, lets say last summer (2007) was still hot, but only about 5 degrees above normal per day. Dropping from being 10 above average to being 5 above average - ie, still above the average - is not the same as DROPPING 5 degrees below the norm. In a similar manner, saying the rate of increase has declined is not the same as saying the underlying metric itself has declined. Just the opposite.

I don't wish to devolve into a statistics lesson; my apologies. Here is the link to NASA data for the entire globe (based upon world-wide meteorlogical stations) for the last 125 years. See Global Temperature Land-Ocean plot: http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/

You claim NASA data that says otherwise. Let's see the link.

James "Cause its spring time maybe?"

I know you're trying to be funny, but that's just the sort of inane comment you deniers try to use to discredit real science. Right, the thousands and thousands of scientists who study this forgot to account for the seasons!

So, a citation please for your NASA comment. I tried to look it up on the NASA website, but got bogged down with all those NASA articles saying global warming is real. Anyway, here's what was on page one for a sample:

Research Finds That Earth's Climate is Approaching 'Dangerous' Point 5/3/2007
RECENT WARMING OF ARCTIC MAY AFFECT WORLDWIDE CLIMATE 10/23/2003
NASA Study Predicts More Severe Storms With Global Warming 8/30/2007
Short-Term Ocean Cooling Suggests Global Warming 'Speed Bump' 9/21/2006
NASA Study Finds World Warmth Edging Ancient Levels 9/25/06

"the planet’s average mean temperature has dropped a little over a degree in the past decade". This shows your ignorance of global warming theory, even if what you say is true. Anyone can cherry pick a date range and show that temperatures declined in that range. The important thing is the general long-term trend. Most global warming scientists postulate that warming goes in "jerks". This is entirely consistent with the theory because of complex feeback mechanims. The long-range temperature increase is real and frighteningly sudden from a historical perspective.

James - Didn't a number of NASA scientists go public or resign or something a few years back because the Bush administration was questioning their conclusions and making them change their reports to match the Bush party line? I would not believe a word this administration says on anything, especially relating to energy.

I haven't heard of the sun spots thing. Last I knew, sunspot activity was largely unexplained and any correlations to earthly effects unknown. At any rate, the sun's radiation doesn't have to hit the surface if the earth's heat is being retained by the atmosphere; that IS the greenhouse effect. Water is a heat sink - it takes a long time to heat up and a commensurate time to cool off. If the summers get longer and hotter, the ocean temperatures rise, and they never get to fall to their "normal" levels. The warmer ocean thus continues to get warmer, year after year, and the heat thus held affects the earth in so many ways, including that of melting the subsurface tundra and releasing the trapped methane as detailed in Kem's article link.

Some scientists have postulated seeding the atmosphere with reflective particles to reduce absorption of radiant heat, but most agree that the unknown side effects of such global tampering may be worse than the cure it proposes. At any rate, the loss of glacial (that is, year-round) ice and the warming of arctic ecosystems cannot be denied. We need to do something yesterday, even if ark-building is the only answer.

Cause its spring time maybe?

But seriously, NASA scientists (which imo, are fairly neutral) have said the planet's average mean temperature has dropped a little over a degree in the past decade. Besides several sun spots have recessed ove the past few decades which will correlate to a direct drop in atmospheric temperature over the long run. If anything, the carbon atoms will keep the temp neutral in the event of less sun radiation hitting the surface.

-James
www.thepoliticus.org

This, on top of the National Geographic show on PBS last night about the plastic in our oceans, and what it's doing to fish and fowl there makes my former bleak outlook for plant earth and all who live here look like heaven. I really don't see how life as we know it can possibly survive.

I just read that article you posted Kem, about "methane burps". Had to laugh though. Here we are all worrying about the price of gas, the housing crisis, food shortages, war in Iraq, maybe Iran, etc. etc., when all the while we may end up dead from a massive earth fart.

KEM PATRICK -

I've read the article awhile back when you previously posted it. I agree - this is dire. It is very serious. Hey, maybe that is why humanity is here -- to trigger some massive change that stirs the pot and in the end maybe millions of years later results in new lifeforms that are able to sustain themselves long-term because we were not. This is a possibility in the grand scheme of things, and if so, this future lifeform ought appreciate us (even though we will be gone!). BUT, selfishly speaking, I hope there can be many, many more generations of "us" to come.

Regardless, it seems to me we'll never know for sure nor will we ever be totally certain that our fate is sealed one way or the other. So, as long as we are still breathing, shouldn't we try to learn so that things will be better for future generations. I get tired of many of the posters here who are fatalistic because it seems to be a self-fulfilling way of thinking. As simple as it sounds, I think we need to start learning collectively and stop behaving so selfishly so that we can understand how we got to this moment and then take actions to remedy the situation as best we know how given our place and time. "Government" can help with this, but the government of the USA just now is more part of the problem then anywhere close to being part of the solution. I hope this can change. It needs to. The changes need to be substantial.

Anyhow, I haven't been posting at CD much lately because I've learned that sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut. Plus, there were some awesome conversations last year and I'm not sure it is worth trying to rehash them.

I think I know where you are coming from and I appreciate all your efforts. I don't think we have reached the "tipping point" on the methane issue, but we have reached the tipping point when it comes to figuring out how to fit in with "Mother Earth". I don't think she is in the mood to play around anymore. I hope we can learn.

Peace,
Ken

Here's something better ~BUFFALO KEN~.

We should ALL memorize the line in the link I'll post here of the two minute read that states, ___ "Once it start, there is NO turning back, __ NO do-overs. __ Once it starts, it will play itself out.___ This article was published in 2004 and very few listened and many still deny it. ~Deny and die~.

http://www.energybulletin.net/3647.html

Not good. When anything "better" arises, our children won't be here to witness it.

You know all this discussion about the "tipping point" seems a bit moot. Is it not obvious - we have passed the tipping point. We have entered into the unknown - in a big way like never before. There is no going back and why would we want to anyhow.

The key consideration at this moment I think is how folks prepare for and respond to the massive changes coming mighty soon. Will those few who are primarily responsible (the "greedy unempathetic hoarders" and "righteous forcers" in my opinion) for getting us into this avoidable mess be recognized and held accountable or not? Will folks turn upon each other or work together? Will we collectively learn new ways or will it be the grinding and gruesome end of our days?

It seems to me to be a historic opportunity for something better to arise.

Peace,
Ken

Amazing how some people still think that the scientists who predicted all of this are wrong. The only thing they got wrong was the speed that it would happen at, yet some people still prefer to believe "scientists" who work for corporations that would rather not be inconvenienced by having to slow down the profits, to save the world.