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Response to Attack From the New York Times' Larry Rohter
The following letter was sent to The New York Times:
Larry Rohter attacks our film, "South of the Border," for "mistakes, misstatements and missing details." But a close examination of the details reveals that the mistakes, misstatements, and missing details are his own, and that the film is factually accurate. We will document this for each one of his attacks. We then show that there is evidence of animus and conflict of interest, in his attempt to discredit the film. Finally, we ask that you consider the many factual errors in Rohter's attacks, outlined below, and the pervasive evidence of animus and conflict of interest in his attempt to discredit the film; and we ask that The New York Times publish a full correction for these numerous mistakes.
1) Accusing the film of "misinformation," Rohter writes that "A flight from Caracas to La Paz, Bolivia, flies mostly over the Amazon, not the Andes. . ." But the narration does not say that the flight is "mostly" over the Andes, just that it flies over the Andes, which is true. (Source: Google Earth).
2) Also in the category of "misinformation," Rohter writes "the United States does not ‘import more oil from Venezuela than any other OPEC nation,' a distinction that has belonged to Saudi Arabia during the period 2004-10."
The quote cited by Rohter here was spoken in the film by an oil industry analyst, Phil Flynn, who appears for about 30 seconds in a clip from U.S. broadcast TV. It turns out that Rohter is mistaken, and Flynn is correct. Flynn is speaking in April 2002 (which is clear in the film), so it is wrong for Rohter to cite data from 2004-2010. If we look at data from 1997-2001, which is the relevant data for Flynn's comment, Flynn is correct. Venezuela leads all OPEC countries, including Saudi Arabia, for oil imports in the U.S. over this period. (Source: US Energy Information Agency for Venezuela http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUSVE2&f=A and Saudi Arabia http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUSSA2&f=A )
3) Rohter tries to discredit the film's very brief description of the 1998 Venezuelan presidential race:
"As "South of the Border" portrays it, Mr. Chávez's main opponent in his initial run for president in 1998 was "a 6-foot-1-inch blond former Miss Universe" named Irene Sáez, and thus "the contest becomes known as the Beauty and the Beast" election.
But Mr. Chávez's main opponent then was not Ms. Sáez, who finished third, with less than 3 percent of the vote. It was Henrique Salas Romer, a bland former state governor who won 40 percent of the vote."
Rohter's criticism is misleading. The description of the presidential race in the film, cited by Rohter, is from Bart Jones, who was covering Venezuela for the Associated Press from Caracas at the time. The description is accurate, despite the final results. For most of the race, which began in 1997, Irene Sáez was indeed Chavez's main opponent, and the contest was reported as "Beauty and the Beast." In the six months before the election, she began to fade and Salas Romer picked up support; his 40 percent showing was largely the result of a late decision of both COPEI and AD (the two biggest political parties in Venezuela at the time, who had ruled the country for four decades) to throw their support behind him. (See, for example, this 2008 article from BBC, which describes the race as in the film, and does not even mention Salas Romer: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7767417.stm )
Rohter's description makes it seem like Saéz was a minor candidate, which is absurd.
4) Rohter tries to frame the film's treatment of the 2002 coup in Venezuela as a "conspiracy theory." He writes:
" Like Mr. Stone's take on the Kennedy assassination, this section of "South of the Border" hinges on the identity of a sniper or snipers who may or may not have been part of a larger conspiracy."
This description of the film is completely false. The film makes no statement on the identity of the snipers nor does it present any theory of a "larger conspiracy" with any snipers. Rather, the film makes two points about the coup: (1) That the Venezuelan media (and this was repeated by U.S. and other international media) manipulated film footage to make it look as if a group of Chavez supporters with guns had shot the 19 people killed on the day of the coup. This manipulation of the film footage is demonstrated very clearly in the film, and therefore does not " [rely] heavily on the account of Gregory Wilpert" as Rohter also falsely alleges. The footage speaks for itself. (2) The United States government was involved in the coup (see http://southoftheborderdoc.com/2002-venezuela-coup/ and below).
Ironically, it is Rohter that relies on conspiracy theories, citing one dubious account in particular that he argues we should have included in the film.
5) Rohter accuses us of "bend[ing] facts and omit[ting] information" on Argentina, for allowing "Mr. Kirchner and his successor - and wife - Cristina Fernández de Kirchner to claim that "we began a different policy than before."
"In reality, Mr. Kirchner's presidential predecessor, Eduardo Duhalde, and Mr. Duhalde's finance minister, Roberto Lavagna, were the architects of that policy shift and the subsequent economic recovery, which began while Mr. Kirchner was still the obscure governor of a small province in Patagonia."
This criticism is somewhat obscure and perhaps ridiculous. The Kirchners were in the presidency for five out of the six years of Argentina's remarkable economic recovery, in which the economy grew by 63 percent. Some of the policies that allowed for that recovery began in 2002, and others began in 2003, and even later. What exactly are the "bent facts" and "omitted information" here?
6) Rohter tries to make an issue out of the fact that the logo of Human Rights Watch appears for a couple of seconds on the screen, during a discussion of Washington's double standards on human rights. The film doesn't say or imply anything about HRW. Most importantly, in his interview with Rohter, HRW's Americas director José Miguel Vivanco backs up exactly what the film does say, that there is a double standard in the U.S. that focuses on allegations of human rights abuses in Venezuela while ignoring or downplaying far graver, far more numerous, and better substantiated allegations about human rights abuses in Colombia: "It's true that many of Chávez's fiercest critics in Washington have turned a blind eye to Colombia's appalling human rights record," says Vivanco.
7) Rohter attacks co-writer Tariq Ali for saying that "The government [of Bolivia] decided to sell the water supply of Cochabamba to Bechtel, a U.S. corporation." Rohter writes: "In reality, the government did not sell the water supply: it granted a consortium that included Bechtel a 40-year management concession . . ."
Rohter is really reaching here. "Selling the water supply" to private interests is a fair description of what happened here, about as good for practical purposes as "granting a 40-year management concession." The companies got control over the city's water supply and the revenue that can be gained from selling it.
Rohter's animus and conflict of interest: We gave Rohter an enormous amount of factual information to back up the main points of the film. He not only ignored the main points of the film, but in the quotes he selected for the article, he picked only quotes that were not fact related that could be used to illustrate what he considered the director's and co-author's bias. This is not ethical journalism; in fact it is questionable whether it is journalism at all.
For example, Rohter was presented with detailed and documentary evidence of the United States' involvement in the 2002 coup. (see http://southoftheborderdoc.com/2002-venezuela-coup) This was a major point in the film, and was backed up in the film by testimony from then Washington Post foreign editor Scott Wilson, who covered the coup from Caracas. In our conversations with Rohter, he simply dismissed all of this evidence out of hand, and nothing about it appears in the article.
Rohter should have disclosed his own conflict of interest in this review. The film criticizes the New York Times for its editorial board's endorsement of the military coup of April 11, 2002 against the democratically elected government of Venezuela, which was embarrassing to the Times. Moreover, Rohter himself wrote an article on April 12 that went even further than the Times' endorsement of the coup:
"Neither the overthrow of Mr. Chavez, a former army colonel, nor of Mr. Mahuad two years ago can be classified as a conventional Latin American military coup. The armed forces did not actually take power on Thursday. It was the ousted president's supporters who appear to have been responsible for deaths that numbered barely 12 rather than hundreds or thousands, and political rights and guarantees were restored rather than suspended." - Larry Rohter, New York Times, April 12, 2002
These allegations that the coup was not a coup - not only by Rohter - prompted a rebuttal by Rohter's colleague at the New York Times, Tim Weiner, who wrote a Sunday Week in Review piece two days later entitled "A Coup By Any Other Name." (New York Times, April 14, 2002)
Unlike the NYT editorial board, which issued a grudging retraction of their pro-coup stance a few days later (included in our film), Rohter seems to have clung to the right-wing fantasies about the coup. It is not surprising that someone who supports the military overthrow of a democratically elected government would not like a documentary like this one, which celebrates the triumphs of electoral democracy in South America over the last decade.
But he should have at least informed his readers that the New York Times' was under fire in this documentary, and also about his own reporting: in 1999 and 2000 he covered Venezuela for the Times, writing numerous anti-Chavez news reports. The media's biased and distorted reporting on Latin America is a major theme of the documentary, one which Rohter also conveniently ignores in is 1665-word attempt to discredit the film.
We spent hours with Rohter over the course of two days and gave him all the information he asked for, even though his hostility was clear from the outset. But he was determined to present his narrative of intrepid reporter exposing sloppy filmmaking. The result is a very dishonest attempt to discredit the film by portraying it as factually inaccurate - using false and misleading statements, out-of-context, selective quotations from interviews with the director and writers, and ad hominem attacks. The Times should apologize for having published it.
Sincerely,
Oliver Stone
Mark Weisbrot
Tariq Ali



41 Comments so far
Show AllAll we have to know about South America and Corporate America comes from Zinns A Peoples historyy..
From 1950 through 1965 US Corporations invested 8.1 billion in Europe and made 5.5 billion in profits. They invested 3.8 billion in Latin America and made 11.2 billion in profits. They invested 5.2 billion in Africa and made 14.3 billion in profits.
They impoverished the peoples of Latin America so that they could grow rich and when those people rose up, they called on their Servants in Government to put them in their place.
It is that simple.
May I recommend also Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent, by Eduardo Galeano.
Eminently readable, highly effective, suitable for classrooms.
http://www.monthlyreview.org/books/openveinslatinamerica.php
A must read book that details the pillage of Latin America both by the Europeans and later by the USA.
BTW, this is the book Chavez gave to Obama. Wonder if Obama bothered to read it?
Cheers.
And let's not forget the earlier condemnation of this thuggish form international 'capitalism' by courageous Marine Corps Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, "War is a Racket," written over 75 years ago.
It's worth quoting the two-time winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor in this context. From Chapter One:
"WAR is a racket. It always has been.
"It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.
"A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.
"In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.
"How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?
"Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.
"And what is this bill?
"This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.
"For a great many years, as a soldier, I had a suspicion that war was a racket; not until I retired to civil life did I fully realize it."
Read more of "War is a Racket": http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
From the Phillipines in the early 20th century to World War I to Central and South America in the 1920s all the way up to our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, Butler's words ring true.
As I was reading GWNorth's comment about Zinn's "People's History . . ." I was thinking of General Smedley Butler. There is an excerpt of his in Wikipedia, which I've posted once before on CD and takes a bit to unearth, where he names the different countries and the resources for which they were attacked and names the companies that benefitted.
And, so a great hero, mutually admired, RSJ. To think when a corporate cabal wanted to overthrow FDR, they went to retired Gen. Butler, who had been touring the country talking about his book, to lead it. Of course, he refused. The only rationale for their going to Butler, actually the last person one would think they would appeal to to lead such a mission, is that they probably felt if they could persuade him, by whatever means, it would give their plans legitimacy. I would be interested to hear from others who might have read about this particular incident and have insights for the cabal approaching the general.
bligh4
I keep hearing about the 2002 coup against democratically elected Chavez. Wasn't Chavez the instigator of a coup himself in 1992 against a democratically elected president?
bligh4
Didn't see any hate "read". I will however, accept your parameters. I will no longer post anything relating to Venezuela- as I am indeed a "gringo". You, in return, will not post anything that has to do with the U.S. as you are not an inhabitant of that country.
Isn't freedom of speech grand? I look forward to not seeing you on any posts not relating to Latin America.
Have a great day!
The two events are at opposite ends of the spectrum, bligh4: in '92, there was an attempted coup for reasons of gross inequality and systemic fraud. In the wake of that, Chavez did his time and then went the electoral route. In '02, it was a foreign-funded and -directed assault on democracy, whose failed figureheads fled to the US.
Whatever his failings, Chavez has more cojones that all three branches of our government combined.
Dirtbag Rohter is just another servant of the one of the main mouthpieces of Empire.
Such a broadbased and spurious attack can only mean one thing, you have stepped on some very powerful toes.
The truth only hurts people that have something to hide.
Since they dredged up JFK, could there be a link?
There are plenty of documentaries that do not get attacked. That the New York Times bothers to attack the film is solid evidence that the film is a success and that the threat of a good example poses a threat to the rich.
Most documentaries are easy targets. Inaccuracies are the norm, particularly with documentaries made by the corporate media. I have even noticed selective misrepresentations of the truth even in National Geographic documentaries. That Rohter has resorted to lying is solid evidence that the films makers predicted the attacks in advance and made the effort to double check accuracy.
Nothing sends the neoliberals into more of a tizzy, and ultimatly spport for armed US military violence, then the treat of a good example of independent egalitarian economic development. Latin America has been providing us with good examples, but eventually paying the price for it, for more than a century now.
The New York Times, one issue is about enough to take care of the dog and the bird cage.
Just today I pulled an issue from the recycle pile to cover the floor while I paint.
Joe
The recycle pile is in a common garbage area of my building. I didn't buy the Times. When I need a dropcloth, I prefer the Times to the other papers because each page has a larger square area.
Joe
If "South of the Border" comes to a theater near me (which can show four movies simultaneously) I promise to stuff myself with cotton candy.
Meanwhile, one wonders what would motivate a punk writer like this Rohter fella to challenge such notable journalists as Stone, Weisbrot, and Ali. No doubt he felt he had the usual imperialist editorial backing.
"Fact checkers? We don't need no goddam fact checkers. This is The TIMES!"
-30-
His motivation is that he is probably a CIA operative.
A long time ago the New York Times became a member of the gutter press. I am reminded of Winston Churchill's comment when asked about the quality of the American press in the late 1890s. He said "The essence of American journalism is vulgarity devested of truth". He was in New York at the time and his impression was probably based on what he read in the NYT.
GaryA
The hitpiece by Larry Rohter in the NYT on Oliver Stone's "South of the Border" is scarcely a surprise. Rohter has a long history of putting a false, pro-American spin on events in Latin America into the pages of the "paper of record."
For example, in 1997 the fellow who broke the Iran Contra stories for AP and Newsweek, Robert Parry, found that, in a NYT piece in 1997, Rohter had air-brushed out the role the USA/CIA had played in the coup that brought a murderous dictatorship to power in Guatemala that ultimately killed over 200,000 people. See: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Zbr7R_xW6ugJ:www.consortiumnews.com/archive/story35.html+LARRY+ROHTER,+CIA&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
With remarkable stamina and courage, Stone, the Yale-educated, Bronze Star-winning Vietnam Vet (who declined officer training school to enlist and fight as a 'grunt'), has repeatedly demolished his critics. I encourage anyone who cares about truth to read the Kansas University Press book, "Oliver Stone's USA," a book in which historians critique Stone's presentation of history in his films, and Stone responds to their critiques.
While Stone definitely takes some well deserved flak, he suffers no mortal wounds, and he gives as least as well as he gets!
For example, Stephen Ambrose lashed Stone for depicting Nixon as foul-mouthed in his film by that name. Stone pointed out what U. Wisconsin historian Stan Kutler notes repeatedly in recordings Nixon made: Nixon was occasionally outrageously foul-mouthed, as well as racist and anti-semitic.
When the MSM gangs up on someone the way Rohter did Oliver Stone, it's an easy money bet that Stone's got his facts right and the powerful are squirming, and so desperately sending in their well paid mouthpieces to shut him up.
If anyone actually believes that the NYT has the integrity and courage to correct Rohther's fact-challenged screed, you're living in a dreamworld.
GaryA
Over 200 media personnel and directors belong to The Council on Foreign Relations! That group is linked to The Trilateral Commission and The Bilderberg Club....all three organizations have been led by the Rockefellers, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and Henry Kissinger......All of Obama's advisors are from one or more of those three groups...
I worked as a teacher for 31 years.....I studied Political Science....I served in the Air Force for four years....I was always labelled a "Commie-Pinko" and "Conspiracy Theorist".....The election of 2000 was stolen by a neo-conservative elite who had control of the election machines, the mass media, and the courts. In 1963, a president was assassinated and the Secret Service had been ordered to withdraw from the sides and back of the Kennedy vehicle and now the evidence of a conspiracy is published....
Unfortunately, those of us who believed that we had a responsiblity to give back to society are far too few and "The Power Elite" have the ability to make me or Oliver Stone look like we are crazy....The greed for power and money has corrupted the American System that a President can establish an assassination list as if he were a Mafia Don and no one complains except us crazies....What a sin!!!!!
This anti-memetic article in the NYT by Rhoter deeply disturbs me. It reminds me of the propaganda effort to minimize the power of Michael Moore's "Fairenheit 9/11." I had some hopes that "South of the Border" might plant the seeds of truth that would grow in the soil of American public opinion and sprout into enough resistance to keep us from the future war against Venezuela.
This NYT claptrap has brought me back to the cynicism that it's only a matter of time before we are in a land war in South America.
When that happens I will do more than stand on a street corner with a sign.
Viva Chavez. Viva Morales.
Also when Michael Moore's "Sicko" was released, CNN's house medical drone 'Dr.' Sanjay Gupta tried to do a hit piece on the film's 'inaccuracies and distortions.' Moore, both in direct TV confrontation with Gupta and on his website, demolished with fact that weasel Gupta's pathetic attempts to discredit Moore's takedown of our unhealthy health care system of which, of course, Sanjay is a highly-paid member.
I'm reminded as well of the possibly apocryphal anecdote of a reporter who, off the record, asked a senior US intelligence official what he would do to protect America's secret operations of the past.
"Ban Oliver Stone movies."
"Seriously?"
"Yes."
"Why, because they're full of inaccurate information and distortions that mislead the public?"
"No, just the opposite."
I've sent Stone/Ali/Weisbrot's response to every NYT-reading jughead I know - just another clear cut case of this "liberal" fishwrap's protection of the corrupt Washington consensus and economic status quo.
One of the best critics of the NYT and their covert propaganda is Gore Vidal. Sharp, biting, truthful, and always funny.
Perhaps Larry Rother and the NY Times editorial board need a little trip down south to check their own facts.
When I was teaching English at a Catholic Seminary in the US, I had a student from Venezuela who gave me fits from 2002 to 2006. He knew I liked Hugo Chavez and came to my office regularly with negative information about the Venezuelan president. More than once, he confronted me with articles from the NY Times that he thought were proof that Chavez was a dictator and a buffoon. He also wanted me to know that much of what the Times had to say about Chavez was also being said in the Venezuelan press.
In the first week of fall semester of 2006, the student came to my office to apologize for the previous four years of badgering about Chavez. It seems he had spent the previous summer visiting his home in Caracas for the first time in over five years. He told me that he had been completely wrong about Chavez. After spending the summer there, it had become apparent to him that Chavez had done more to help the poor in Venezuela that he had imagined possible. He also said that the US media and the Venezuelan opposition press were pumping out lies about Chavez and deliberately ignoring all his positive achievements. Most of all, he wanted me to know that his five-year absence from Venezuela had made his new impression of Chavez stronger. His recent return had made the difference in the country all that much more apparent. Chavez, he asserted, was the first leader of his country to have done anything for the common people in Venezuela.
Maybe the NYTimes folks could change their assessment of Chavez as well with a little incognito trip to Caracas. I would hope they would find some nice inconspicuous place to observe from and stay away from their usual five star hotels where all the anti-chavistas hold court.
I live in Tennessee and sincerely hope that I have the
opportunity to view this film and make my own judgements
about its merit. From what I know about the history of
US-Latin American relations there is most likely a
great of truth in this film. In other words it is not
what is untrue in this film that bothers me-it is what
is accurate.
Wonderful comments, folks. I seldom leave comments because there are so many more qualified members of the Common Dreams community. I spend a lot of time on the Michael Wolff website: newser.com
Yesterday I posted stories on the USERGRID (a forum that can be used by anyone) about the situation in Hondures on the one year anniversary of the coup and ouster of President Zelaya. I'm going to post a a summary based on this article and discussion right now.
8^)
Wonderful comments, folks. I seldom leave comments because there are so many more qualified members of the Common Dreams community. I spend a lot of time on the Michael Wolff website: newser.com
Yesterday I posted stories on the USERGRID (a forum that can be used by anyone) about the situation in Hondures on the one year anniversary of the coup and ouster of President Zelaya. I'm going to post a a summary based on this article and discussion right now.
8^)
This letter and so much more I've seen coming from the New York Times show why it's true that the more people read it the less they know. They really know how to do disinformation for US power elites. That paper might be good for toilet paper were it not so harsh.
AD
This letter and so much more I've seen coming from the New York Times show why it's true that the more people read it the less they know. They really know how to do disinformation for US power elites. That paper might be good for toilet paper were it not so harsh.
AD