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US Progressives: Time to Make Obama Uncomfortable
At an annual conference of grassroots progressives, they said the euphoria and high expectations after Obama's victory had lulled them into a false sense of security, and hopes for his success had sometimes limited their criticism.
U.S. President Barack Obama is seen at the Western Michigan University in Michigan, June 7, 2010. Nineteen months after celebrating President Barack Obama's historic election win, disappointed liberal activists promised on Monday to turn up the political heat on a White House they said is too quick to compromise.
(REUTERS/Larry Downing) That has changed, they said, because of what they called Obama's go-easy approach on Wall Street, ineffectual efforts to reduce high unemployment, watered-down healthcare and financial regulation reforms and escalation of the Afghanistan war.
"It is not our job to make this president or this administration comfortable. It is our job to make him do the right thing," said Darcy Burner, head of the Progressive Congress Action Fund.
"There were far too many of us who thought our job was done" after the election, she said.
Opinion polls show the surge of grassroots liberal activism that helped propel Obama and his fellow Democrats to power in 2008 has diminished, while enthusiasm has picked up among conservative Republicans eager to fight Obama's agenda and unhappy over the jobless rate and budget deficits.
Signs of the disparity were abundant at the three-day "America's Future Now!" conference, attended by more than 1,000 liberals at a Washington hotel where an exhibition hall housed just a handful of group booths and displays.
A similar conference of conservatives in Washington earlier this year drew 10,000 participants and packed a hotel ballroom with dozens of booths manned by powerful conservative lobbies like the National Rifle Association.
The contrast has contributed to expectations of big Republican gains in November elections, which could wipe out Democratic majorities in the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives.
Liberal activists said it was time to crank up the pressure on Obama, who they said had been too willing to compromise with Republicans determined to obstruct his agenda.
WAITING FOR OBAMA?
"We have to stop waiting for Obama. We have to stop taking the president's temperature. We have to stop being critics and start being actors," said Robert Borosage, co-director of the Campaign for America's Future, which sponsored the conference.
"People are strongly feeling that they need to push more. He has compromised too readily, too early," he said.
Borosage said the challenge to Democratic Senator Blanche Lincoln from the left in Tuesday's run-off election in Arkansas was a sign of a rebirth of progressive political activism.
Labor unions angry at Lincoln's reluctance to back a bill to make it easier to organize and activists unhappy with her lukewarm support of the healthcare overhaul have been heavily involved in the Arkansas race.
Some activists said high hopes for Obama made it hard to criticize him.
"There is still an extraordinary loyalty to Obama and that creates this sense of conflict," said Gloria Totten, head of the Progressive Majority, which recruits liberal political candidates at the state and local level.
But Phaedra Ellis-Lamkins, who heads an environmental activist group called Green for All, said Obama's initial acceptance of what he was told about the Gulf Coast oil spill by officials of London energy giant BP Plc was a sign of his hands-off approach with the corporate world.
"The handling of BP has been atrocious at best. I believe in the president, but I believe in the needs of the Gulf Coast residents more," she said.
Still, some activists said passage of a broad economic recovery plan, a sweeping healthcare overhaul, an increase in student aid and the looming approval of financial regulatory reforms -- even if each initiative was not perfect -- was an impressive record for a new administration.
"We have achieved much more in the last 18 months than progressives typically give ourselves credit for," said Deepak Bhargava, head of the Center for Community Change.
"The arrow of change is now headed in the right direction, even if it's not far or fast enough," he said.
154 Comments so far
Show AllYeah, they passed nice sounding bills but so did Bush ,
Remember "Blue Skies"
Where is the economic recovery,except for wall street, more unemployment , more foreclosures
Obamacare is an unproven unconstitutional mandate,
More student aid as many, many public schools close
Oh and a looming bill that may do some good,
Is no way balanced by increased war, fascism and environmental degradation.
Yes, Deepak Bhargava must be smoking lots of really good stuff if he thinks Obama's "achievements" are in the right direction.
We don't need Democrats to dust off and pass a Republican corporate welfare program disguised as health care reform.
We don't need Democrats to break records on war spending.
We don't need Democrats to spend $14 trillion bailing out banksters (an amount that could have more than solved every social issue facing the US).
The list goes on and on.
Obama has not compromised, he has capitulated.
Well said, ray! Bravo!
"Progressive"- It's just another weasel word.
"Progressive" is merely a term that was salvaged from the scrapheap of history, sorry but that's too great a metaphor not to steal, by the alleged "left" in this country because the Limbaughs, Kristols,et al had so demonized the word "liberal." That's basically it, plain and simple. The problem is, that in spite of the fact they were led by one of the biggest imperialists and warmongers, the original Progressives,were a bunch of Bolsheviks, compared to the hegemonic capitalists who wrap themselves in the "progressive" mantle today.
While some of us here know that modern-day liberalism was founded to be a capitalist-friendly "third way" between socialism,and conservatism, most people do not. If they did and truly understood this history they would not waste all of their time and effort into trying to make "liberals", and The Democratic Party in particular, into the socialists they might want them to be.
A "progressive" is someone who cannot admit to the systemic failure of the society. Through this stubborn blindness, they reveal their own fundamental loyalty to the social system as a whole. The solution to the "anti-democratic" turn in American politics is not to question its foundations but to proscribe "more democracy" or "real democracy", without evaluating for a minute whether the ""turn" is really an aberration. In economics, a "progressive" is one who blames an excess of greed, a deficiency of regulation, or the corruption of the state rather than the normal operation of capitalism. In this way, "progressives" are identical to Libertarians who, in the face of insurmountable evidence, continue to insist that it is "too little" and not too much "free enterprise" which is the problem.
We need a capitalism based on good intentions says the one, based on a strengthening of the "individual" claims the next, and one purged of racial corruption declares the last. Fixing capitalism is the highest and in fact the only slogan of all of the above, and this in the most trivial and unhistorical way possible. Those are the last and the only words of this brand of "radical" criticism which is actually a radical support for the society as it exists... if only that society could be "allowed" to achieve its "true" nature.
All too often "progressive" has come to mean someone who will offer unconditional support to The Democratic Party no matter what.
A progressive is someone who believes in the system.
Modern liberalism is occupying the space where the Left should be, confusing and misleading people, steering people away from accurate perceptions and clouding their minds, preventing them from asking the right questions because they think they already have the answers. That is dead wood that needs clearing. If we are willing to kick over the beehive of modern liberalism you will see the true face and the true nature of the ruling class war against the people with crystal clarity. As it is, we can't even see the enemy now. We are looking out the tent flap watching for the approach of those dreaded right wingers, and the enemy is behind us right in our own tent.
mcoyote, I think you summed things up pretty well.
Excellent. "Liberals" are capitalist wanna be's, that simply want a larger portion of the capitalist pie. The people will be motivated to leave the tent you mentioned, when they are living in them. For now, it's widescreens and imported beer.
Progressives who are angry at Obama are acting irrationally by deserting him. He is by far the best choice we have available to us, and if they sit back and refuse to support him, it will be like someone cutting off his nose to spite his face. Do you really want the Republicans back in power? That is exactly what will happen if we don't rally around Obama and the Democrats. Then, these corporate lackeys will erase all the good that Obama has managed to do, and they will finish the job that Bush and Co. began. If we will just stand behind the president, we can push him in the right direction. Please don't desert him, we cannot afford another eight years of Republicans.
Obama is a corporatist. He believes in top down economic theory. He supports massive funds for the military. He continues the Bush tax cuts for the rich. He showers trillions on the banks and gets little in return. He lies continuously. He buckles under when dealing with the Israelis. He does nothing of consequence to stop foreclosures. He has done almost nothing for jobless people. Obama is a feckless President. He lacks empathy and judgment. Progressives are too timid to do anything about him despite their rhetoric. Just what we need, more talk.
WELL said, Stone. You summed him up quite succinctly. Funny, however, that the lesser-of-two-evilists that posted above never respond when someone like you points out specific facts proving Obama has done, literally, NOTHING different than the Republicans.
Hmm. I wonder why....
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis, "It Cant Happen Here", 1935
Demonstorm, Americans move at the speed of dark. By the time they wake up to Obama they will be penniless and living in a caustic environment. Now is not the time to look to Washington for solutions. Instead it is time to bind together at the local level and prepare for the continuing shockwaves. These shocks will continue until a unity of mind is reached forcing us to leave the old and become something new, and better, a human rebirth. What we are experiencing is a profound human paradigm shift. It is not within the realm of Washington to effect this change. The impotence of Washington's response in the Gulf is just a microcosm of what is happening on a much larger scale. Nature will render mankind impotent and forge a unity of mind to enable us to traverse time and space to a rebirth.
This is true Stone for those who wake up, but most will resist the shocks and persist in their sleep, even if it means the destruction of themselves and others. A deep understanding of human nature reveals the truth of this. People will not give up what they believe to be their benefits without a fight--first internally, then externally. For the few, though, these shocks provide and will provide an extraordinary opportunity for achieving clarity and consciousness. There is a small chance that those few, being a torch, will in turn light a torch in others. If you look around, you see that authentic integrity is so rare today. People only do what is safe; they dare not risk their reputations or anything else in the spirit of harmony and wholeness, but instead herd with others for whatever scraps they believe they can get. Fear rules the world today, and is and always has been a cruel master. And narcotizing oneself is much easier--at least initially--than stepping outside of one's comfort zone.
Speed of dark!! beautiful
These times are creating growing pains, for sure,
but I'm not convinced the shift has started in the u.s.,
too many are still blinded by misdirected allegiance,
their minds poisoned by media and self serving government education,
most know no other way.
In fact, they revile alternative options as they were taught to do.
Good grief! Another "lesser evilist"
"He is by far the best choice we have available to us,"
Baloney!
"Do you really want the Republicans back in power?"
That's just what we got with this guy ....
"erase all the good that Obama has managed to do,"
And, what, precisely, my dear, is that?
"He is by far the best choice we have available to us,"
BALONEY!!! Read my I.D.!
I might have agreed with you before K caved on health care ...
Nope the best choice was (?is) Nader ...
Sure, Kucinich. You mean, the phony progressive who supports each and every war criminal Democrats nominate for president each election cycle?
He's a fraud. His caving on health care is the least of his crimes. His charade with Democratic voters for years is by far the worst, most cynical.
We're all purists now! (and I mean that)
With steadfastness, clear vision, and love, we will find the way.
"Brand Obama" is designed to be a huge disappointment. The strategy is to get another Republican elected. The agenda will be pushed farther, thus, again, saving the Democrats. "Obama wasn't this bad!" the sheople will bleat. "It's those damn purists again, and that evil Ralph Nader! They've ruined our country!"
For us: Good cop, bad cop games while we lose power.
For the PowersThatBe: the agenda moves forward, either way, while power is concentrated in fewer hands.
"Whenever we compromised, we lost." (the late, great David Brower)
If you like Dick Cheney, Obama's the best choice available.
Dirty Energy Sluts, Corporate Sell Outs, Blood Thirsty Warmongers,
Zionist Tools.
Cheney and Obama. A black and white cookie.
You must be working for Karl Rove if you're trying this reverse psychology dung on a site like CD.
Incidentally, what GOOD has Obama managed to do? Obama IS the one finishing the job that Bush and Co. began. Heck, he has continued each and every policy. Do you follow the news? Even made it worse. Obama's now assassinating people instead of just sending them to Guantanamo like Bush did. Talk about "change you can believe in".
Real progressives won't desert Obama, don't worry, because real progressives were never fooled by him to begin with.
If Obama's the best choice that the Democrats and Progressives have, then I'm afraid we're in deeper trouble than you care to believe, genierae. I don't like the Republicans any more than you do, but I think that if and when we do get another Republican POTUS, Americans will hopefully learn their lesson and not always be so quick to buy into charism and to judge a book by its cover, so to speak.
Even when they have lost everything and are fighting for sleeping space under a bridge, genierae and many other Brand Obama fans will be blaming Dubya, despite Obama's abyssmal legacy:
Obama has expanded the already bloated Dubya war budget and threatened freshmen congressmen and women who wanted to vote against the additional funding.
Obama's economic stimulus is 50% tax cuts even though not a single Republican voted for it.
On Sept. 9, 2009 Obama told us that Obamacare was "needed to protect insurance company profits" and although "a public option is needed to keep insurance companies honest", he "would sign a bill without the public option".
Everybody, including the Obama Regime has concluded that Obamacare will not even begin to control healthcare costs.
Everybody except the Obama Regime see higher rates of health care cost inflation resulting from Obamacare.
Obama zealously promoted the reconfirmation of Fed Chair Bernanke despite his record of enabling the 2008 meltdown and pandering to the banksters.
Obama has never advocated breaking up the too big to fail banks that keep expanding, thereby assuring an even more severe and costly future meltdown.
These seven examples are just the tip of the Obama iceberg.
If Obama's the best choice that the Democrats and Progressives have, then I'm afraid we're in deeper trouble than you care to believe, genierae. I don't like the Republicans any more than you do, but I think that if and when we do get another Republican POTUS, Americans will hopefully learn their lesson and not always be so quick to buy into charism and to judge a book by its cover, so to speak.
So, you don't see the corporate lackeys in the Oilbama Administration?
Are you that blind and/or uninformed?
Exactly what good has Oilbama done that is distinguishable apart from what corporate lackeys want? Please don't say his Health Care bill.
What about the return of the rule of law? Where is Oilbama on that one?
Oilbama seeks (yes, he still seeks it) to end long standing moratoriums on offshore drilling in the Atlantic, and revive Nuclear Power.
If it were Bush pushing for such things so-called 'progressives' would be going ape shoot, and for good reason.
Bill Clinton's DLC started moving the Democratic Party to the right, helped disappear jobs overseas, and deregulated Banks and Financial Services Companies.
Oilbama is still moving the party to the right, and strangely enough so-called 'progressives' are all too willing to go with him.
I'm done voting for the lesser of two evils, then the lesser ends up being just as evil.
Even Bush didn't task his DOJ to review Miranda.
Even Bush didn't prosecute a whistleblower.
Even Bush didn't set back reproductive rights for women 30 years, like Oilbama did with his Insurance Company Bailout Bill.
Just what kind of 'progressive' would support such policies?
Ah, the tired old "lesser of two evils" nonsense that continues to draw America down the proverbial drain every 4 years.
Despite the fact that there is no difference between the Dems and the Repugs - except in the veneer and empty words they use - in policy, action, or legistlation, idiots like genierae will continue to vote Democrat EVERY time. Reason: "it's better than if I had voted Republican."
When you ask them WHY Obama is better than Bush, WHY Democrats are better than Repubs, they give some vague, fuzzy answer. No specifics.
Example: Bush gave billions in tax dollar bail-outs to Wall Street. Obama gave TRILLIONS. Genierae's response? "Uh..."
Example: Bush ended habeas corpus, openly tortured, and started a regime of locking up "enemy combatants" for life without trial. Obama continues to do these things to this day, expanding on it and making it official policy. Genierae's response? "No, that's different....uh...um..."
Example: Bush invaded Iraq illegally and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians. Obama expanded that war, doubled the war funding for Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., expanded the war into Pakistan, and increased the troops and private mercenaries in those countries by 400%. Genierae's response: "Um...uh..."
Example: Bush tried to privitize social security, but failed thankfully. Obama passed legislation forcing Americans to purchase corporate health insurance, and has assembled a panel to reduce Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. Genierae's response: "Um...uh..."
Example: Bush unconditionally supported Israel, gave them billions in $ and weapons, and a thumbs-up for their illegal occupation of Gaza. Obama increased the $ and weapons to Israel, continues to support their illegal occupation of Gaza, and publically supported their illegal piracy/murder of the Freedom Flotilla in international waters. Genierae's response: "Um....uh...."
I could go on and on. Point: dumbass Democrats like Genierae will always use the "lesser of two evils" excuse to continue voting Democrat, despite the fact that every single Republican policy is supported and continued - even expanded on - by the Democrats when they are in power. There IS no difference between the two. But yet, Genierae and his ilk will continue to insist there is.
"The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing, over and over again, but expecting a different result."
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis, "It Cant Happen Here", 1935
I'm just too burned out by the recent series of catastrophic and tragic events to work up much of a rant about the pathetically deluded hacktivists cited in this banal article.
The overall suggestion that meek, centrist liberal-lite activists will shift to a "No More Mister Nice Guy" approach, and firmly seize and hold Obama's cloven hooves to some ephemeral "fire" is preposterous on its face-- especially since they're mired in a sticky "half-full" goo of hysterical optimism, and mistake their self-induced hallucinatory mirages "like a broad economic recovery plan, a sweeping healthcare overhaul, an increase in student aid and the looming approval of financial regulatory reforms" for external reality.
"The arrow of change is now headed in the right direction, even if it's not far or fast enough." Sorry-- that arrow was fed into the Team Obama pencil sharpener, and is now sawdust.
Just you wait OS, 'round election time, tiny bones will be tossed our way, or maybe just hints that they might be. As every psychologist knows, desire intensifies with just a splash of reinforcement - too much will ruin the effect. And fake carrots are quite powerful. This must be carefully designed so as not to spoil the sheople. They could easily become uppity, demanding.
What a crock!
Too many "progressives" voted for O in the first place. It's time to "push" him, all right, right out the door ...
"Still, some activists said passage of a broad economic recovery plan, a sweeping healthcare overhaul, an increase in student aid and the looming approval of financial regulatory reforms -- even if each initiative was not perfect -- was an impressive record for a new administration.
'We have achieved much more in the last 18 months than progressives typically give ourselves credit for,' said Deepak Bhargava, head of the Center for Community Change."
Give me a break! If they call this "an impressive record", they are still high on kool-aid.
"We have to stop being critics and start being actors,"
Well you're putting on a pretty good show so far, "acting" is a good term for it, maybe you could join SAG ...
Amaaaazing, if these guys haven't figured out by now that Obama wasn't just "compromising" with, but actively engaged in promoting, this god awful list of "reform" measures, there is little "hope" for real "change", at least not coming from them ...
The conservatives draw 10,000,the progs draw 1,000;why?Nobody believes these clowns anymore knowing they will fall all over themselves for Obama and when he said that what Bush-lite signed into law was a step in the "right" direction all 74 of my hairs stood up on my head.Tony
This one hit some nerves.
How are you going to make him uncomfortable? Put a whoopy cushion under his butt at a state dinner?
Thanx for the laugh!
Missing Dubya:
http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/comedy/watch/v20161248zXRCe9zZ
the fear that obama is causing isn't so much win or lose election in november, it is the impresion that he left for the world to see: how weakling this man is. the impresion i got from some pundits reporters that if the opponent doesn't like obama's proposals he( the opponent) just sit it out and obama will come back to him running with concessions. and they site several examples. starting with the healthcare proposal thru which he gave in at least five times including bribing senators with funds. then the settlements freeze when the israelis threw it back at with indignation. then the threats to north korea about its atomic weapons. not only the koreans shrugged off his theat, they actually came with more lethat atomic weapons using different fissionable materials. and now the BP fiasco.these are but some tangible items that corraborate the legacy that this man left for the world to see and judge.
He's only a weakling for the right, he's a vicious snake with regards to liberals or progressives, not to mention leftists.
KARMA WILL SOLVE IT ALL
I agree completely. Blacks have voted Dem religiously since the 60's. What have they gotten for it? A 50% unemployment rate in Detroit! (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/16/detroits-unemployment-rat_n_394559.html)
Rahm Emanuel laughs and says, 'What are they going to do, vote Republican?' That is what Progressives were told about single payer health care. Obama did not feel the need to negotiate with the Progressive Caucus. We would come around in the end.
I will not vote for DLC Dems. I will only vote for Progressives. With no choice I will vote Green. Elections are close and all votes are needed to win. If you cross your base and they stay home you lose.
I want to see Lincoln gone. I want to see Landrieu gone. I want to see Baucus gone. I want to see Ben Nelson gone. I want to see all Blue Dogs gone. I have given up on Obombya.
Time to make Obama uncomfortable?? Time to send him to The Hague.
The "progressives" mentioned in the headline of this article are the new liberals in the US. And liberals, as we all know, are useless. They sound wonderful (like Obama) but act like Dick Cheney. So forget about liberals making Pres. Obaminable uncomfortable. They're Obama ass-lickers.
I'm a liberal, and am not someone who is blind to the absolute corrupt Corporatist Obama is.
You've got your labels mixed up.
Liberals in this country have a long history of fighting for what is right, whether it be worker's rights, women's rights, the civil rights movement, the anti war movement, the environmental movement.
Just because the right of center Reagan Democrats that Bill Clinton did service to strapped on the moniker of 'progressive', don't blame liberals for that.
Liberals are the ones leaving the Democratic Party in droves.
'Progressives' are the Oilbama apologists.
Liberals and progressives are one and the same. Liberals became ashamed at one point in the 90s to be called liberals and chose a new word: progressive.
It's LEFTISTS who have a long history of fighting for what is right in this country, worker's rights, women's rights, the civil rights, the anti war movement, the environment etc. Real leftists should never be mistaken with liberals and progressives, who only talk beautifully.
So it's you who has the labels mixed up, sorry.
"Liberals became ashamed at one point in the 90s to be called liberals and chose a new word: progressive."
Liberals who chose the word progressive left liberalism.
I'm not one of those liberals. I've never used the word 'progressive' to describe myself and have long railed against it's use, and what it politically represents.
So on ideas, I don't think we disagree.
There is a long history of liberalism in this country which is a part of our Historical record, which you can deny if you prefer.
I'm a liberal, who is sometimes maligned as a Leftist by the likes of Karl Rove, etc.
Label yourself whatever you want Delia.
It's really about ideas no?
Cicero: "Freedom is participation in power."
You clearly no nothing of the history of authentic progressivism in the U.S. Sadly all too common even on this site these days. Since you know nothing of its history you only slip & slide around in the deliberate political class and corporate media muddle of the terms "liberal" and "progressive."
Cicero: "Freedom is participation in power."
Wrong. You don't know what you're talking about and I'm sick unto death of having to constantly educate you people about the history of progressivism. Do some goddamn homework before you post.
Cicero: "Freedom is participation in power."
New liberals or neo-liberals are entirely different animals from Great Society or New Deal era liberals. Get your terminology straight. The term "progressive" is deliberately misapplied by the now thoroughly corporatized political class and corporate media to corporatist neo-liberals who sometimes support gay rights or abortion rights anything else that even falsely smacks of promoting the general Welfare, let alone actively promotes it. They ignore authentic progressives and anyone to the political left of "flat earth" globalist working-class traitor Thomas Friedman.
Your fucked up ignorant attitude, instead of reclaiming and reasserting the proud history of American progressivism, as represented by champions of the working-class from young Eleanor Roosevelt to old Ralph Nader, falls right in line with the DLC neo-liberal attempt to paint themselves as representing the progressive interests of the working-class while actually being false-Left agents of corporate regression, and with the GOP and all its minions who use the term to brand pols and groups who support the groups they are most bigoted about and upon whom they wage the most vicious top-down class warfare.
You guys are dreaming. Obama doesn't have any juice and he never will. A cartel of wealthy people call the shots and that's the way it is. It doesn't matter who's elected the result will always be predicable. In order for the economy to come back Obama and his administration will have to kiss some rings, but the economy and the government will never be under the control of the left, no matter how many rings are kissed.
Lattes, laptops, NPR, "portfolios"...Sigh.
Obama makes me so mad I could spit, and I will, just as soon as I find the proper, appropriate location in which to do so. I'd hate to offend anyone with such vulgar actions, but dammit, sometimes you just have to get really, really, mad.
Time to make Obama uncomfortable? No, time to make sure he will never be reelected. I never thought he would be as bad as Dubya, but he's worse. What a fucking toady!
I really do appreciate your optimistic and analytical perspective Aquifer. I agree there are some opportunities that an organized left could take advantage of.
The dems have let the people down hard. They've partnered with the republicans to transfer the hard-earned wealth of a generation of working and middle class citizens to the corporate elite. They've squandered a once-in-a-generation opportunity to repair our profit-driven health care system and 45,000 citizens will continue to die every single year in the name of higher profit for the insurance corps. They just passed a military budget that surpassed the republicans. Their betrayal of the trust of the people is treasonous.
But we are not organized. I'm afraid we couldn't organize our way out of a closet. We seem to be brilliant at criticism, analysis and policy development but not so competent at organizing or even communicatig with our fellow citizens.
I think we are correct on virtually all major issues but we don't communicate well. We alienate those who don't already agree with us.
We need to develop good organizational and communication skills. And a strategy for growth.
We need to understand how to bring more people on board.
Right now it seems to be the right that is gaining strength. Not us.
You're correct, the opportunities are there. A void is being created.
But if we want to have any chance to fill it, we need to work harder and a whole lot smarter.
Thank you for responding.
Let me start off by saying that one of our problems with "communicating" is that we quit too soon. A perfect example of that is what happens to threads on CD - after a couple of days they are abandoned. i always try to check back on places I have posted to see if there are any replies, especially where i have attempted to raise some ideas or suggestions. After a couple of days I see them abandoned and although i wish to continue the discussion, no one else is there. We have all gone on to the next hot thing and start all over again with the same stuff that gets just so far and then oops, gone again. I like to continue until it is really clear it is exhausted. Sometimes it means saying the same things but in different ways, because some ways click and some don't and fora like these could be used as ersatz focus groups to help us refine our approaches so that we learn to communicate better, especially if there are divergent opinions - back and forths are one way to learn what works and what doesn't.
In this age of twittering, the value of actually developing approaches and arguments in this way has been undervalued, to our detriment.
"We need to develop good organizational and communication skills. And a strategy for growth.
We need to understand how to bring more people on board."
Absolutely, you've hit the nail one the head. I am suggesting that the communication skills come first, you can't organize folks until you can communicate with those you want to organize. No organism, not even the most primitive, can survive, let alone grow, unless it has effective interaction with its environment which necessarily involves communication.
" We alienate those who don't already agree with us."
Absolutely, i have noticed that on this site often. Unless i completely misunderstood the purpose of sites such as this, I thought the point was to have discussions. But more often than not people just seem to want to throw in their favorite lines or lecture. If any one disagrees, the trash talking often begins and that's the end of it. I suspect that this may be the way we communicate off-line, in real time as well. If that is so, no wonder we don't grow. The other themes seem to be that we are doomed ("Fucked" seems to be a common expression) so what is the point, the duopoly, corps, and media are all powerful so what's the point, indys "can't win" so what's the point, etc. etc. etc. and anybody who suggests there IS a point gets ignored or functionally ridiculed. That's no formula for "change" let alone progress. The challenges are formidable, to be sure, but each can be addressed. No one really wants to, it seems.
cont'd
cont'd
The other thing I have observed is what seems to me a real flavor of elitism and actual disdain for the "common" folk, the very ones who suffer most in this system we say we want to change. We go on and on with demonstrations of how much we know and refer, not only to those who don't agree with us on a particular thread, but to the many out there who share their views, in a very derogatory and demeaning manner. That's not a formula for growth. I get frustrated as well by what I see as circular and/or illogical argument, but to me, the response to that should be Socratic dialogue, not dismissive sneers. There are some out there who would respond "Ha, those sheeple are too dumb to engage in Socratic dialogue". Not only do I disagree with the premise, but that's no formula for growth, either. One can't expect to communicate with, let alone organize, folks you don't have a fundamental respect for.
I have a professional degree, but I have no patrician aspirations. I am of plebeian background and proudly so. I like to work with my hands and fix things, whether surgically in the OR, or mechanically in my basement. I value folks who can fix things. I believe that education is valuable but I also know that it is no guarantee of enlightenment. I have met many "educated" people with fewer smarts than those with fewer degrees. But i find often that folks with more education often look down on the folks in the trades, and either dismiss them or, at best, tolerate them. They don't want to "lower" themselves by actually engaging in real discussions with them.
If what we do on sites such as this is indicative of what we do in the real world, that's no formula for growth either. How can we communicate with, let alone organize, folks if we don't understand and have some sympathy with where folks are coming from? And how can we do that if we do not respectfully engage them? To assume that we know, generically, based on their educational or socioeconomic status, is foolish. I have been, more often than not, proven wrong in my assumptions, when I continued the conversation a bit longer and asked a few more questions. And, I believe, even when we come away from a discussion still at odds, no effort is ever wasted. If we have not alienated them in the process, they, as well as we, will walk away with some new stuff to ponder and process and our opinions are often changed, even if only marginally. And if nothing else, we can say to ourselves "Well, i guess that didn't work either, I'll have to try something else." We need to TALK to them, and, more importantly, perhaps, we need to LISTEN, actually listen to what they are saying.
Sorry for going on and on, my usual habit, but you have really touched on an area i have given a lot of thought to. Well, better end this post. And probably I'm just talking to myself anyway, at this point, unless you are still there, Iowapinko ..
P.S. (see, I can't stop)
I am not optimistic, I am just damn stubborn. No battle is every truly lost until one side surrenders or is annihilated. I ain't in the mood to surrender, and I ain't dead yet. So until then I will forever engage in trying new approaches .....