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TechnoratiIran Admits to Secret Second Nuclear Plant Built Inside Mountain
Iran has informed the International Atomic Energy Agency that it has been building a previously undeclared nuclear facility to enrich uranium, raising fears that Tehran is closer to acquiring an atomic bomb than has been predicted up until now.
![[Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad visits the Natanz uranium enrichment facility in 2008. Iran on Tuesday hailed a major boost to its capacity to produce nuclear fuel as it prepared to join talks with the major powers next week that the West hopes will lead to a suspension of the sensitive process. (AFP/IPO-HO/File)]](http://www.commondreams.org/files/article_images/iran_secondsecretnuclear.jpg "iran_secondsecretnuclear.jpg")
The presence of a secret second site - built inside a mountain near the holy Shia city of Qum - has been known about by American and other Western intelligence agencies for some time, although nothing has been revealed until now.
Iran's formal letter to the IAEA in Vienna, sent on Monday, pre-empted an announcement to be made today by President Obama, Gordon Brown and President Sarkozy of France before the opening of the G20 economic summit in Pittsburgh, in which Tehran will be accused of building the secret facility about 100 miles southwest of the Iranian capital.
Although the CIA and National Security Agency (NSA) has been tracking construction of the plant for several years, Mr Obama decided it was time to put maximum pressure on Tehran by revealing its existence.
Reports from Washington indicate that Iran had learnt of the West's uncovering of its second plant and moved to declare it formally to the IAEA.
Iran wrote a brief, cryptic letter to the IAEA saying it now had a "pilot plant" under construction, whose existence it had not revealed. Iran's first and officially declared facility is at Natanz in southern Iran.
Marc Vidricaire, IAEA spokesman, said: "I can confirm that on September 21 Iran informed the IAEA in a letter that a new pilot fuel-enrichment plant is under construction in the country. The letter stated that the enrichment level would be up to 5 per cent."
Uranium enriched to around 5 per cent can be used as nuclear fuel, but has to be enriched to around 90 per cent to be effective in a nuclear weapon. The United States, Britain and other Western countries believe that Iran has been attempting, at its plant at Natanz, to achieve a higher enrichment of uranium, although the plant has been subject to IAEA inspections.
Iran has enough low-enriched uranium but has yet to develop the higher grade for a weapon.
The IAEA spokesman said• "Iran assured the agency in the letter that further complementary information will be provided in an appropriate and due time. In response, the IAEA has requested Iran to provide specific information and access to the facility as soon as possible. This will allow the agency to assess safeguards verification requirements for the facility."
He said the IAEA was told by Tehran that no nuclear material had been introduced into the facility.
The revelation of the second plant further complicates the chances of any meaningful progress at the scheduled talks on October 1 between Iran and six world powers, the first in more than a year. The five permanent United Nations Security Council members and Germany will be pressing Iran to scale back on its enrichment activities. But Tehran has declared that it will not bargain on enrichment.
Mr Obama and the two other leaders will today demand that Iran opens the doors of the secret site to IAEA inspectors.
Pressure has been mounting on Iran this week to halt its nuclear programme. Britain indicated at the UN that "far tougher sanctions" must await Iran if it failed to answer international concerns at the meeting with Western powers next week.
The emboldened calls to action came after Russia finally conceded that sanctions may be inevitable, after intense lobbying by the Americans.
President Ahmadinejad was among the leaders to make a speech at the UN General Assembly this week and he used the opportunity to repeat claims that Iran required only a civilian nuclear programme for the production of energy.
The Islamic Republic insists that it has the right to generate fuel for what it says will be a nationwide chain of nuclear reactors.
Iranian opposition leaders disputed that claim last night, suggesting that Mr Ahmadinejad was working to build nuclear warheads at two previously unknown weapons factories.
87 Comments so far
Show AllAch! Just venting in expectation of further CD articles on this issue: I happened to catch the network local teevee news, and boy is it predictable but nonethless infuriating and depressing.
Nothing we haven't watched, or not-watched, a million times: a perky, attractive, superficially articulate newsreader breathlessly summing up the overall Official Spin: Prez gets tough on sinister Iran after Iran is caught red-handed by US intelligence agencies operating a secret nuclear facility.
It's the kind of news report that one imagines multiplied a thousandfold, blaring out and half-heard in noisy bars from coast to coast, and leaving people with a foggy impression that those treacherous A-rabs are acting up again and begging for another pre-emptive smackdown.
Gotta do it to them before they do it to us, see what I mean?
And let's do it RIGHT this time! Hell, yes!
Manufacturing Consent, Weekend Edition.
Normally this wouldn't be an October Surprise year... which would make it a REAL October Surprise. Trick or treat!
· Yr Obd't Servant
You've described it well, OS.
Joe
it was no "secret," site; Iran informed the IAEA in accordance with their rules on monday. the US was pissed because they had hoped to make a dramatic scary announcement.....but they got beat to the punch. it was less secret than disneyland.
misleading title for this article
This article is propaganda disguised as news.
They try and make it seem Iran is duplictous about its Nuclear prorgam and has been lying to the west.
FACT
Under the NPT Iran has the right to build facilities to enrich uranium.
SECONDLY
Under that same treaty Iran does not have to inform the IAEA of the consturction of any such facility until 6 months prior to it becoming operational.
This facility is 18 months away from becoming operational.
Iran is in full compliance and has followed the guidelines in the treaty.
The US and Israeli claims that this disclosure was to prevent iran being embarassed because the West aware of it is cock and bull.
It sounds like more of the same old spin being used to justify a war against Iran.
You spelled it out beautifully! I might add that the only reason our gullible White House is doing this is because the Israelis have infiltrated (think Dennis Ross)and their basic tactic is to delay or sabotage any meaningful conversations with the Iranians. Ross even co-wrote a book with Michael Makovsky which advcates this technique. Makovsky was one of the men who worked under Douglas Feith and Paul Wolfowitz in the Office of Special Plans. They helped create the lies that lead us into the Iraq War. We should also start insisting on finding out the source of the secret information that states over and over that Iran is building the bomb. Doesn't anyone remember a little weasal named Achmed Chalabi who was paid over $30 million by the CIA to give us information about the Iraq WMD's. Too late, they would realize that he was a fabricator and turned off the money spigot. But by that time his lies had taken hold along with the lies from the office of Special Plans and the White House was whipping the war fever up. The same thing is happening now in relation to Iran.
Yes, and the US and Israel have known about this for a long time but now suddenly they're crying "the sky is falling!"
Exactly. The US and Israel have been trying to justify an attack on Iran for years even providing FAKED evidence and now we are to believe that they had THIS evidence and decided to sit on it?
It sounds more like they were totally unaware of the construction of this facility and or are just using this announcement by Iran to try and look Iran look like it failing its obligations to the IAEA.
"we caught them cheating three times"...Rubbish.
NOTHING that comes out of the mouth of a Washington official or envoy can be taken as the truth. Saddam Hussein was more honest then this crowd of liars and "cheats".
Dead GI September 25th, 2009 7:48 pm
News Flash! Israhell STILL doesn't admit to its nuclear weapons program...Come on Netanyahoo, how many WMD do you have and where are they hidden?
Better yet Dead GI~~~
Who are those Israeli missiles aimed at??? We all know that we don't make Nukes to put up on the mantle piece and admire. They are made to be used eventually. Israel hates the whole world, and Zionism is a declaration of war against all carbon life forms on the planet.
The only document that Netanyahoo will reveal is that old blueprint of a concentration camp in Europe.
That is all he's got to show.
Iran has a right to enrich uranium, because the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty, to which it is a signatory, allows the member states to enrich uranium for civilian purposes. Iran has no reason to suspend this simply to appease its enemies.
Quote - `` Marc Vidricaire, IAEA spokesman, said: "I can confirm that on September 21 Iran informed the IAEA in a letter that a new pilot fuel-enrichment plant is under construction in the country. The letter stated that the enrichment level would be up to 5 per cent."
Uranium enriched to around 5 per cent can be used as nuclear fuel, but has to be enriched to around 90 per cent to be effective in a nuclear weapon. The United States, Britain and other Western countries believe that Iran has been attempting, at its plant at Natanz, to achieve a higher enrichment of uranium, although the plant has been subject to IAEA inspections.''
So the second nuclear plant proves what we have known all along, that the Iranians have been enriching uranium. This does NOT in itself prove that they are building a bomb, because as this article mentions, the Iranians need to enrich uranium up to 90 percent to do so, something that they are not anywhere close to doing as per the IAEA's own recommendations.
Why is there so much attention on an alleged Iranian nuclear capability and so little on a actual Israeli program? Could it be that a certain foreign lobby controls our government’s Middle Eastern policy? Our government & Israel lied about WMD in Iraq & they are lying about Iran & the bomb. It has more to do with the fact that Iran has been trading in euros as opposed to dollars. This can reek havoc with our financial stability.
Let’s disarm the existing nuclear power in the Middle East. Try diplomacy, then sanctions, and finally a military option. Bomb her nuclear sites, destroy her aircraft & submarines. It’s time to neutralize the greatest threat to world peace.
Yawn...........
Here we go again......
Why is this even a story?
Iran signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty; they have the right to develop nuclear energy just as other western countries do. The real stories are the countries like Israel, India, and Pakistan who have not signed the NNPT (and who have actual real like nuclear weapons) and the countries in irrefutable, direct violation of the treaty, like (big surprise, the real rogue nation, the USA).
Questions:
Why does Iran need to develop reactor fuel, with all its associated deadly pollution, when it can easily afford to purchase it from Russia? Its so easily interpreted as a ruse to have equipment capable of making weapons grade material.
Why doesn't Iran give full cooperation to the IAEA and let inspectors check everything all the time? Iran could so easliy prove the hawks wrong.
Iran agreed to report any new nuclear program developments immediately to the UN. This was reported only because the US was about to expose it and prove Iran has been lying.
The suspicions, sanctions and sabre rattling will continue as long as this illogical behavior continues. Missile research and Amadinejad's continuing inflammatory rhetoric don't help a bit.
Even Russia is coming on board about sanctions. Nuclear proliferation is to be avoided at all costs, and with a Security Council green light, the US could arrange for Iran to wake up one morning with a lot of burning holes in the ground.
(This thing is above Israel's level. Its time for the big boys to step in. Israel can't pull it off and should not be allowed to even try it.)
"Why does Iran need to develop reactor fuel, with all its associated deadly pollution, when it can easily afford to purchase it from Russia?"
Ever heard of being self-reliant? Brazil enriches it's own uranium, so does India, are they "threats"?
And Iran is cooperating with the IAEA - didn't this facilitiy become news because they notified the IAEA of it's existence - even though it isn't even operational yet?
>>Why does Iran need to develop reactor fuel, with all its associated deadly pollution, when it can easily afford to purchase it from Russia? Its so easily interpreted as a ruse to have equipment capable of making weapons grade material.
This would mean Iran reliant on a foreign supplier to deliver the same. See North Korea who agreed to end its Nuclear Program in return for the US shipping them fuel supplies. The US then suspended those shipments for Political reasons.
If an Iran was at the mercy of a Russia, Russia could hold them hostage to that supply much as they can to West Europe with the supplies of natrual gas.
>>Why doesn't Iran give full cooperation to the IAEA and let inspectors check everything all the time? Iran could so easliy prove the hawks wrong.
They have, Iran has been in full compliance with the NPT treaty they signed. The West and the USA bend the rules of the IAEA demanding the inspections become MORE intrusive and over and abaove those required by the NPT. When Iran refuses people such ar yourself trot out the non compliance angle.
>>Iran agreed to report any new nuclear program developments immediately to the UN. This was reported only because the US was about to expose it and prove Iran has been lying.
A fabrication put out there by the spin doctors in the West. Iran has an obligation to report such facilities 6 months before they are completed and come into production. This facility is 18 months away from Completion. They were neither lying nor in deficance of the treaty.
>>The suspicions, sanctions and sabre rattling will continue as long as this illogical behavior continues. Missile research and Amadinejad's continuing inflammatory rhetoric don't help a bit.
Please spare me the "Infammmatory Rhetoric". Israel and the USA has been using the same against Iran for over a decade. Indeed the US Congress even passed a bill that is intended to topple the Governmnet of iran. This is in defiance of international law.
As to building missiles. is it your claim now a Country that designs and or builds missiles has shown itself to be inflammatory?
>>Even Russia is coming on board about sanctions. Nuclear proliferation is to be avoided at all costs, and with a Security Council green light, the US could arrange for Iran to wake up one morning with a lot of burning holes in the ground.
Yet wqhen someone in Iran makes such a claim it shows they are all mad men, can not be trusted and threats to world peace.
The only country leaving burning holes in the ground the World over is the United States of America.
This against countries that can barely defend themselves in Somalia, Yemen and Afghanistan.
If Iran disbanded its entire Military tomorrow this would GUARANTEE a US attack .
"Why doesn't Iran give full cooperation to the IAEA and let inspectors check everything all the time? Iran could so easliy prove the hawks wrong."
_______________________________________________
Bingo! It's THAT simple! In fact, that's EXACTLY what Saddam Hussein did when IRAQ was being circled by Amerikan hawks!
Could the lesson of Iraq be any CLEARER? Are Iranians just too STOOPIT, or PSYCHO, to learn it?
Oh... wait...
· Yr Obd't Servant
Apply everything you said about Iran to Israel, then we'll talk.
Say, for arguments sake, it was discovered that Iran already had hundreds of hydrogen bombs of advanced design, and long range MIRV-equipped ICBM's already deployed.
Would I worry about them?
Nope.
But, I sure would worry about the insane reaction to them by my own country's leaders and those of that 51st US state on the east end of the Mediterranean.
pjd412 If that 51st state is the one I'm thinking it is...
You better be worried about that one --it's our capital
If the Amerikan reactionary wingnut demagogues can just find a way to tie ACORN into this Dark & Sinister Undisclosed WMD Factory, the biggest raft ever built will load up with über-Patriot Teabaggers determined to invade Iran by sea!
· Yr Obd't Servant
Iran Admits to Secret Second Nuclear Plant Built Inside Mountain
---------------------------------------
Good for them. Israel needs a counterweight. Any nation that either the US or Israel dislikes and does NOT have nuclear weapons is living on borrowed time, in my opinion.
News Flash! Israhell STILL doesn't admit to its nuclear weapons program...Come on Netanyahoo, how many WMD do you have and where are they hidden?
At Thanksgiving dinner last year (2008), I made a bet ($10) with a friend that the United States would be at war with Iran within 18 months. I said that the people who run things wanted a war with Iran and that they would use any excuse. I said, "Bush is a warmonger and Obama will be a war enabler." (Although I now think that Obama is also a warmonger; he just has a more pleasing countenance.)
I also mentioned that I thought that the people putting a lot of hope in Obama were probably going to be very disappointed--that even if (IF) he wanted to change things, he would not be able to because of the framework (a mafia-like structure) that is firmly in place.
I think a military draft is coming. I recommend that young people check out information on conscientious objection, war resistance, and peace activism. There are no "just" wars (and if you think there are, the powers that be will make sure to "gin one up" that meets your criteria). Don't cooperate with evil.
How can one ever trust someone who denies the holocauste...I mean right there you know you are dealing with a deranged and dangerous mind.
Dark leader, dark regime, offers nothing but strife.
Aladdin,
He did not deny the Holocaust, in fact he enlarged it to include the 60 million who died in World War 2 and said they all deserve the same degree of historical lesson. What he kept saying to Larry King when asked "do you deny the Holocaust?", he would pose another question to Larry as what does it have to do with the Palestinians when it happened in Europe?
He asked Larry who did it and where? and Larry said "in Germany". What is there to deny.... the only thing he denies is that this is used as an excuse to take land and life from the Palestinians.
Now all Western reports over the years claim he denies the Holocaust but everytime I see him interviewed with a live translator, he makes the same point that the "lie" is that this gives Israel the right to steal Arab land and more.
Israel uses this as an excuse to treat the Palestinians terribly. "Never again, never again", as if that makes Israel innocent of ethnic Cleansing and Apartheid. Many early Zionists even thought that Hitler would help their cause and offered to help Hitler. Look it up.
"he would pose another question to Larry as what does it have to do with the Palestinians when it happened in Europe?"
"Ahmadinejad is Iranian. NOT Palestinian. So, what does what is happening in Palestine have to do with him and Iran?"
See where you get when you play rhetorical games such as this?
"
He did not deny the Holocaust, in fact he enlarged it to include the 60 million who died in World War 2 and said they all deserve the same degree of historical lesson."
This is Holocaust denial. This a classic attempt at Holocaust denial. This is an attempt to deflect from the fact that Jews were deliberately targeted BECAUSE they were Jews.
that is one interview...I have seen it.
There are other speeches and interviews where he is more explicit about his denial, callin the H a fabrication and other names. He chooses what to say and when according to the context. A smart fox.
Anyway, if you think this guy wants the benefit of his people and the rest of us...you're entiteled to your opinion.
ok zombie.... please wake up and smell the truth
ohhh I see, Mr Truth is here...like the one who realllly knows everything...
What is it, some obscure conspiracy theory website gives you an excessive boost of confidence?
Well, Israel officially denies the Turkish genocide of the Armenians. But then, maybe you think that's just good politics, since Turkey is one of Israel's few allies.
Noone is denying the Armenian genocide per se, there is controversy and conflict about the term genocide...some using the term atrocities instead/ However, noone denies the number of death and neither the fact that the event actually occurred. Though I would agree with you that this stinks politics.
"Noone is denying the Armenian genocide per se, there is controversy and conflict about the term genocide..."
Thank you for denying the Turkish genocide of the Armenians.
Good God, that was easy.
??
enjoying yourself on your little island facing your little mirror?
To Aladdin September 25th, 2009 5:08 pm:
Here's an accurate translation of Ahmadinejad's remark about the Shoah:
“In the name of the Holocaust, they have created a myth and regard it to be worthier than God, religion, and the prophets.”
Note that this assertion does not in the least deny the existence of the Holocaust. On the contrary, it presupposes it, for it says that Europeans and other Westerners have transformed a historical occurrence -- namely, the Holocaust -- into a myth, into an idol.
In other words, it charges that Westerners' preponderant relationship to the Shoah is a case of idolatry. In that perception, Ahmadinejad is no different from those Western critics who have denounced the cult of the Holocaust.
Always good to check the facts before repeating them, especially charges levelled against Iran and Ahmadinejad by British, U.S. or French officials, not to mention Israeli officials. Nearly anything about Iran that comes from those four nations' officials is at least ideologically tainted, if it isn't in fact pure ideology (pure fantasy, like the lies and nonsense we were fed by Colin Powell in his United Nations speech in the run up to the invasion of Iraq).
Checking the facts indeed...you seems to have only half of the story:
Ahmedinjad quote:
"TEHRAN (Reuters) - President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called the Holocaust a lie Friday, raising the stakes against Israel just as world powers try to decide how to deal with the nuclear ambitions of an Iran in political turmoil.
"The pretext (Holocaust) for the creation of the Zionist regime (Israel) is false ... It is a lie based on an unprovable and mythical claim," he told worshippers at Tehran University at the end of an annual anti-Israel "Qods (Jerusalem) Day" rally."
Calling the Holocaust a LIE is not claiming the Holocaust is manipulated for political ends neither it is calling it idolatry. It claims is it unprovable and false...you can try to justify that as you wish, but most of us are not fools.
Should you perhaps be open to the fact that there are difficulties related to translation from Farsi - which is an ancient language and contains many words and concepts no easily translated to English words and phrases?
I suspect that Persian culture tends to have a better understanding than the west - particularly the English-speaking world, of the word "history", which is actually a very complex concept. There are actual events called "history" then there is the body of writings, storytelling and mythology, and even current-day zeitgeists that arise from the past event, that we also call "history". Very different things! Similar to the way the very different spanish verbs ser and estar become "to be" in the verb-starved English language.
so you deny holocaust, you will bombed? Actually the deranged folks are sitting in Tel Aviv. Not only are they deranged, they are liars. At least Iran informs IAEA, albeit cryptically. When wull the deranged regime of Israel admit to their heinous WMDs that goes beyond just nukes?
Noone is bombing him just yet, so chill out...
People are comdemning his stance and manipulation of history for whatever reason he chooses to have.
All I was saying is that he is dark...uses the podiums of democracy in the UN to unleash his uncontrollable anger...the hypocrisy is that gay people are hanged under his command as he gets the stage for his distortions. Oh, I forgot, there are no gays in Iran...and of course everyone is very free to express themselves on the streets of Teheran.
"Noone is bombing him just yet, so chill out..."
Patience, patience. :-)
It seems that you want the US to bomb him just to prove your point...a true peace advocate you are...
Aladdin, if you are Israeli, you should know that Bush turned down requests by Ehud Barak, Gabi Ashkenazi, and Mier Dagan to assist them in attacking Iran in the summer of 2008. If you read Haaretz, you would have seen the articles on June 17 that were censored in all other news media world wide. "Mossad: Iran Will Have Nuclear Bomb by 2014" and "Israel Can't Make up it's Mind About Iranian Nuclear Timetable". Mier Dagan's newest assessment has certainly messed up the constant screeching of the war hawks in Israel, i.e, "The Sky is Falling" "Iran will have the bomb next week, so let's bomb them now". It's time for our White House to get smart and stop this very dangerous game.
They will never admit anything they are not forced to admit--- except under torture of course.
What the article actually illustrates is the US Intelligence "Guys" must not be very intelligent, or they would have known about the 'secret place where the Persians make their nucs'.
Iran was and still is playing the USA's game against the USA and it seems to work.
The mid east has been waiting for the US and UK and other powers to reach the point they have now. Israel has played into their hands, and will no doubt do the 'dirty work' then 'need assistance from their allies'. This may be hard to come by, since China would hardly allow the US to expand its war in the area to include Iran. Israel is arrogant and foolish enough to start a conflict believing they would receive help. If China 'pulls' the credit lines in for the US, the US would fold, or at least be far to busy with its own collapse to worry about the illegal state of Israel and it facing the consequences of its conduct for 60 years now. The other powers in the mid east would take Israel apart, piece by piece---and assure themselves that the threat that Israel now presents will be eliminated---and the USA and UK and others would be powerless to stop it.
I have a side bet with others that the Saudi Kingdom has 'nucs'----they certainly have the money to acquire them, as well as the use. They would be foolish not to have them with Israel being the threat it has been to any others that oppose them.
I think the Israelis are arrogant and foolish enough to start a war, and that would most likely be their 'undoing'. They have no one but the USA that would truly come to their rescue and the USA has as its largest 'debt holder' the Chinese; the USA is in a 'no power position' to make any demands on anyone but themselves; and it appears they are on the verge of turning on themselves any day now.
The moment that Israel attacks Iran, every Israeli can simply put their heads down between their knees----and just kiss their asses good by. Their days will be numbered, in the few, immediately afterwards.
Then, how many in the area would miss them? Since its illegal establishment in 1948, Israel has not gone to any lengths to speak of to make 'friends' with their 'neighbors'---in fact very recently they have shown themselves to be as merciless and blood thirsty as their 'old testament stories tell'---only now; they have 'nucs'----that should scare the hell out of everyone every where.
Israel has shown the world that they are unwilling to live in peace with others, and that for the 'others' to tolerate them much longer would and could be 'suicidal'. The nations in the region survived the Romans where "Israel" did not and would not exist now if not for the USA and the UN.
The nations of the region know that they cannot tolerate the Israel 'as it is now' nation; human nature and the law of self preservation will assure that.
The irony is that Israel was destroyed by the Romans for the same reasons Israel is now giving the other nations to do the same. They cannot live in peace with others.
Their arrogance takes away their ability to live in peace with others.
History reveals that humanity does not tolerate that kind of arrogance.
not sure...Israel wanted to attack Iran many times and didn't because they waited for US approval. The rest of it is pure speculation. Israel will likely wait until it has US approval, and I highly doubt Obama will give the green light.
Israel may be arrogant, but not a bit more than anyone else in this conflict...Achmedinejad is surely not the model of modesty.
Historically, israel has attacked w/o telling the US first. They will probably attack next summer as BO's Afghan mire deepens, fan the Arab hate fires, maybe a false flag in the gulf of oman or straights of hormuz. US navy, Israeli subs and navy, Iranian navy and missiles on bluffs aimed at the ships are all mixed together now.
Iran's naval vessels are insignificant. however they can stone cold sink a US carrier with the SS-n-22's they have deployed.
How much would Israel love Iran to sink a US carrier? This cannot even be calculated. We'd invade. Occupy. False flag time. naawww
If something called 9-11 had happened, then I would expect it, only then though.
Well since most people in the USA deny the Native American Holocaust , I guess you would label them likewise.
Also on a recent NPR interview Ahmadinjah, among other things, admitted to the Holocaust as a historical event.
This idiosincracy is just another USA state propaganda ploy as are Burkas.
Yes everything you dislike to admit is propaganda... like gay being hanged, like theives having their arms chopped, like dissidents being tortured, like the modesty police...Actually Iran is the model of democracy and civil rights. I wonder why you don;t pack your bags and join your beloved leader...establish yourself under the democratic regime of Ahmadinejad.
"gay being hanged, like theives having their arms chopped, like dissidents being tortured, like the modesty police"
hmm... sounds like America, I think both countries are F'ed up, which will collapse itself first though?
As a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran has every legal right to use nuclear power for peaceful, power-generating purposes. It is only the hypocritical US which has tried to demonize Iran as violating some imaginary treaty or law by developing nuclear power, when in fact, they are not violating any laws at all.
The bottom line: the US is the ONLY country in the history of modern civilation that has actually USED a nuclear weapon against another nation, and against a civilian population to boot. Truly the largest and most dastardly terrorist act of all time, dwarfing 9-11. The U.S. has also - under the "Bush Doctrine of Preventative War - declared that we have the inalienable right to use our nuclear weapons premptively against any country - nuclear-armed or not - that we deem to be a threat to our security. According to the NPT, it is a violation of the treaty to even THREATEN to use nukes against any other nation.
But - again - just another example in a long, long list of the laws and treaties that the US breaks whenever it feels like it.
And we call IRAN the rogue nation???
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis, "It Cant Happen Here", 1935
It not due to even be operational for another 18 months. It makes sense to start a second one considering Israel is constantly threatening to bomb the one they have -- that would make it harder to destroy the capability to process uranium and perhaps make it less likely that Israel or the US would try to stop the processing. Why would Iran want to put all its eggs in one basket considering the threats it faces?
I think Russia and Iran have agreed on a way forward... it is the new break with the USA and Israel that is keeping the road to peace blocked.
Netanyahoo cries "Iran, Iran" every-time they are criticized for all their UN treaty violations and war crimes.
I thought the UN speeches were a hoot. Chavez made sense and Man the world is changing fast.
A hoot indeed, especially Netanyahu's bush impression: "Will you stand with Israel or will you stand with the terrorists?"
Here we go again folks! We attacked Iraq right after Saddam threatened to change the oil bourse from U.S. currency on the well documented canard of WMD's, but the cheerleaders and sychophants in the whore media never mentioned it. A few days ago Iran said that are in the process of changing their oil bourse from U.S. currency to Euro's and I predicted then that you would see a 24/7 demonization of Iran as this will cost the very,wealthy elite a mass loss of $. But again no mention of this story! So now the sheeple are given another BS canard by the war mongers in this country!
yes the demonizing campaign is in overdrive for the corporate media. CNN's choice of headlines for today's story says it all: "Iran's Secret Nukes" - who doesn't read this and get the impression that Iran already has nuclear bombs stored away somewhere
Faux News one-upped CNN of course with the headline: "Atomic Bombshell" - you just can't make this shit up anymore
Iraq was attacked after both Saddam and Chavez were planning to switch to Euros for oil.
Also no mention in the article that the last CIA assessment was that Iran has NO NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM.
This is probably the real reason we are in Afghanistan and calling for more stormtroopers.
Now o is on the military industrial congressional complex's band wagon for invading and destroying another nation, you know, that one great product america is so capable of exporting around the world.
Couple this with the honduran coup and all those new bases in colombia, I would say old milton turdfuck friedman is being resurrected for another go-round of 'unfettered' capitalist terrorism and o is creaming in is shorts that he is gonna be in charge, sort of.
Atomic energy and atomic weapons are a scourge. Just because a country is under the boot of US hegemony doesn't make their desire for atomic weapons justified.
Leaders in India, Pakistan, and (soon now Iran) rile up their citizens to be proud and militant about their nuclear arsenal. They think it's just a bigger, better bomb and the generals that grew up with this mind set are poised to use what they have in a future conflict.
Nuclear proliferation only increases the possibility of annihilation that is looming large already given current armament levels.
May I also remind people that nuclear energy requires a centralistic big brother state to dictate where plants are built (=against local opposition) and with severe surveillance in place to guard against sabotage and terrorism. We all know that domestic spying won't be used for just that.
Energy solutions can be found elsewhere.
"Leaders in India, Pakistan, and (soon now Iran) rile up their citizens to be proud and militant about their nuclear arsenal."
Leaders in the US, UK, France, Russia, China, Israel, India, Pakistan, and (soon now Iran) rile up their citizens to be proud and militant about their nuclear arsenal.
As long as some, or any country has nuclear weapons, nuclear proliferation will exists. To eliminate nuclear weapons, EVERYONE has to give them up.
Who has the most nuclear weapons in the world, pray tell? That's where you need to start with.
Quark, you write:
"Leaders in India, Pakistan, and (soon now Iran) rile up their citizens to be proud and militant about their nuclear arsenal."
You are not well informed. The whole point is that there is no evidence of any on going nuclear weapons programs or ambitions in Iran, despite the propaganda of the west, based on hegemony of US and Israel.
Your counter opinion about nuclear energy for peaceful applications is another story altogether which is not relavant to the question of non-proliferation, balance of power and military threat. You are either very naive to confuse the two or you are trying to derail the debate with irrelevancies.
This is an interesting story for a few reasons... it raises the question, if all the Intel agencies knew about it, why was it kept from the world.
Now it would be nuts for Iran to have told where it was building the plant when Israel was threatening to bomb them.
So now it seems something has changed and Iran feels confidant enough in its reasons to build a nuclear power system and sell its Oil at a time when new improved and safer technologies of nuke plants are being developed in the world... so Iran is positioned to have the latest nuke plant designs.
I am skeptical because the mining of uranium and other safety problems are still not solved, but burning Coal has just as many problems...and maybe more.
Wind solar, wave, it is all good.
Now we have to adjust to the falling empire as well.
welcome to the revolution.
Um, you got misled by bad reporting. The truth is Iran notified IAA about a new unfinished enrichment facility. Everything is according to law, in due time they will allow inspections. You have to ask why the media is crying wolf? Public option is about to be scrapped? Distract from the purported financial focus of the event? Use the opportunity to demonize Iran some more? Mad about the facility location, apparently hard to bomb? All of the above?
I was not misled. Speak for yourself.
This is such a bullshit story. Commondreams ought to take it down.
Obama says "Iran is breaking the rules all nations should follow" and the other 2 clowns standing there like they know the whole thing is bullshit.What hipocricy!!!In front of the whole world no less.Tony
might as well include other US VIOLATIONS:
violations of treaties against native indians- part of Genocide of probably 10-20 million of them...
violations of treaties against Mexico in order to steal New mexico, California, parts of Texas, and other western "states"..
violations of treaties against hawaii, in order to topple the Queen of Hawaii and annex the islands
Violations of Treaties against Philippines that USA was supposed to GET OUT but instead installed itself as the "replacement" for spain
Violations of Treaties or understanding with Russia never to push NATO to russia's backyard ...and now NATO is in CENTRAL ASIA
Violations of the Geneva Convention
Violations of Business deals with dozens of countries leading to polluting their lands and poisoning their people with US corporate malfeasance
VIolations of international Laws by illegally and criminally attacking Serbia, IRaq, Haiti, and so many more
Violations of sovereignties by forcibly removing islanders from Diego Garcia to install a large military/naval outpost in the indian ocean
Violations of Promises and Treaties to recompense American Blacks from slavery
VIOLATIONS + VIOLENT = USA Empire
Teddy,
I love the list you've compiled, and as an addition I'd like to add that the US is the only state engaging in nuclear sharing as seen here in this wikipedia link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons#Nuclear_weapons_sharing
If the link doesn't work, wiki List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons.
Interesting that even in such a grave and outrageous violation of the NPT, the US - ever the beacon of all that is good and moral - insists that weapons' sharing IS compliant with the NPT because "the U.S. nuclear weapons based in Europe are in the sole possession and under constant and complete custody and control of the United States."
Down with the super-evil US and its ultra-evil 51st state located in the Mediterranean.
There has been around ten or more USA instigated coups, some unsuccessful, in South, Central America and Carribean.
Costing around .5 million lives or more.
Brazil, Nicaragua, Gautemala, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Chile, Peru, Venezuela, Granada, Columbia, Panama, Honduras, Mexico, Cuba.
I am sure some of you can add to this list.
What has Iran done but help some Muslims defend themselves from Zionist propulgated genocide?
"Iran has enough low-enriched uranium but has yet to develop the higher grade for a weapon."
This is a balanced statement according to editors paid by Rupert Murdoch's the pro Zionist, pro NWO, monopolist.
Take this article, its implications and shove it!
Calling all rational thinking people. Please peruse this speech at:
http://therearenosunglasses.wordpress.com/2008/09/26/full-text-of-president-ahmadinejads-speech-to-the...
Compare it to BOH's UN speech...
And judge for yourselves who is right and which one is honest and acts with humanitarianism?
Personally I would like to strip all men of any weapon of mass destruction--but I suspect those who have the most, have already used them against people, and are under the influence of proven evil forces should be stripped of them first--How 'bout you???
Full Speech:
http://www.haaretz.com/
hasen/spages/1024097.html
OK, now let's hear about Israel's secret nuclear program so the world can find out just how armed that fascist state is.
They [israel] are having wet dreams about dropping a few hydrogen bombs on anybody who they think is anti semitic. Hmm, that pretty much includes the entire planet. However, I'm sure iran holds a very high position on their shit list.
Good for Iran. Smart people there. It's much better to develop nuclear energy than to fight resource wars.
It's a well known fact that coal power plants release more radioactive materials in the air than the nuclear plants ship to safe storage. What is less known is that oil is responsible for direct nuclear pollution. How so? The answer is resource wars. In the absence of a new radicals scientific discovery, there are only two options, peace nukes or war nukes - with or without actual nuclear weapons.
Conventional resource wars create many times more nuclear pollution than anything else related to nuclear power. The US expended 2000 tons of depleted uranium just in the Iraq war, that makes, at a concentration of 0.2%, 4,000 kilograms of pure U-235. The bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima contained about 25 kilograms U-235.
So the oil in Iraq costs the unburned fuel of 160 Hiroshima size bombs dispersed over agricultural areas, plus many tons of other radioactive materials. You might be getting some of the food produced there, courtesy of globalization. Not to speak about the fate of soldiers and civilians on the ground - from both sides. Depleted uranium was used also in the first Iraq war, in the war against Serbia and in Afghanistan. Add it up, to glimpse at only a small part of the future without peace nukes.
Excellent post Arktig 9:47
Arktig,
you write:
"...there are only two options, peace nukes or war nukes..." "only two options" you insist, because you promote nuclear power as the only solution to global warming and the energy crisis.
Then you write:
"The US expended 2000 tons of depleted uranium just in the Iraq war, that makes, at a concentration of 0.2%, 4,000 kilograms of pure U-235. The bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima contained about 25 kilograms U-235."
But that depleted uranium IS A PRODUCT of the nuclear reactors that you insist are the only solution to our problems. So your clean green nuclear "solution" is in fact feeding the war machine.
i certainly agree with you that the use of reactor by-products as weapons of war for oil is a horrific crime.
i disagree with you that this is an argument in support of building more reactors.
Your tireless promotion on the Common Dreams site of nuclear reactors is notable. You might want to go to today's Harvey Wasserman article comment thread, where the CD community is beating up on your pro-nuke home-boy Thomas Friedman...
I hope you don't prefer non-depleted uranium? Uranium at various stages of enrichment can be produced in large quantities specifically for the purpose of "depleted" munition manufacturing or for nuclear bombs. There is no shortage of uranium ore or other heavy but radioactive materials outside the power generation industry. You have no argument here, What the military want, they get.
I promote nuclear because I go by the numbers. I also wish we had some magical solution which didn't involve nuclear energy. I sure hope for solar, wind or fusion to show some real results of scale. But I'm not seeing them at the moment. There is nothing else, unfortunately.
I'll check Wasserman, thanks.
Look Arktig and you will see-- Wind is less expensive than coal. Green Smart Grids are being built . China has a hugh Photovoltaic Project. Leasing modules are economically viable for businesses.
It is bascially state propaganda that wind solar and wave are not viable.
Look into underground storage of thermal and photo energy.
New Mexico has a number of hugh projects underway and plans to sell solar energy out of state.
Yes, we should research these alternative energy sources. At the present time none of them can provide the amounts of energy necessary to replace coal, much less to compete on cost. You seem to be unaware of the problems with these technologies. Please, read this about the shortage of rare metals:
http://www.businessgreen.com/business-green/news/2248745/china-eyes-ban-rare-earth-metal
So the question is, what to do until a viable and completely clean solution is found? To talk about conservationism is not serious, energy supply disruptions are no laughing matter for great many reasons, including political. So there you have it. If we drop the entire CO2/pollution problem, there is coal. If not, it's nuclear - energy or war.
Iran has a new admitted concealed gas centrifuge enrichment facility, one hopes for the production of fuel grade isotopes for power generation. It has stated repeatedly that it has no nuclear weapons ambitions. Iran has not attacked any of it's neighbors in 600 years, yet suffer crippling international sanctions.
Israel has a nuclear facility devoted to the creation and maintenance of nuclear weapons. It has over 200 of these death machines. It has violated the NNPT repeatedly. It jailed one of it's own citizens for over 20 years because he told the truth. Israel has repeatedly attacked neighboring countries, yet continues to garner international trade and sympathy by playing the poor survivor card, suffering no sanctions even though it repeatedly commits war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Something wrong here, folks...
Walk in peace.
Yeah, no kidding. Iran should say they'll open their doors if israel does as well and let's count the nukes for the world to see. Don't forget, we invaded Iraq because they violated a few UN resolutions and israel violated over 100 and are continuing to build in the West Bank illegally. Something is wrong.
If Obama tells Iran to open their nuclear doors and they say no, then maybe mccain's song will ring true...
Something is very wrong... will there ever be a peak to this worldwide insanity?!
The Islamic Republic insists that it has the right to generate fuel for what it says will be a nationwide chain of nuclear reactors.
-----------------------
No mention of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty which allows Iran to make nuclear fuel.
This story is a non-story.
When will the U.S. live up to its terms of the Treaty?
When will Pakistan and Israel sign the Treaty?
Ditto cygnus. Iran is the villian de jour which allows us to keep the fear pot boiling and the military spending high. What about the log in our eye?
Joe
non, la villain de decennie, w/ Israel pushing 4 war, Persia is more than a diversion, but rather will be struck with force, attacked. Forget not our military plans are generated in Tel-Aviv! For so long, so very wrong. I predict a false-flag sinks a US vessel, then we could revenge, finally, '79.
post script; truly enjoy your posts, always thoughtful, joe. peacesomeday
would not surprise me in the least
Thanks Joe.
Joe
The reason the corporate media never mentions the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty is because we're a violator of it.
We're in the process of building new nukes to replace the old ones.
It's much simpler and more effective propaganda to focus all the attention on a "scary" Islamic country that happens to sit on billions of barrels of crude we want to get our hands on.
Treaties are for suckers and fools.