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What's Next for America?
NEW YORK - To some it signals the end of the American empire, to others it's just part of the vicious capitalist cycle. Either way, the litany of bad economic news in America has many pondering where it all goes from here.
"We are seeing the beginning of the end of the American empire," said Howard Zinn, author of "A People's History of the United States." (Ray Pfeiffer/The Badger Herald photo) Millions of U.S. jobs have been lost and more layoffs are expected.
Banks have reined in lending after a credit crisis and a housing
collapse that has sent foreclosures surging.
On Wall Street, several investment banks have collapsed. The U.S. stock market has lost more than 40 percent of its value. Behemoths like Citigroup (C.N: Quote) have struggled to survive.
Tough times also threaten the once-mighty U.S. auto industry, with General Motors (GM.N: Quote) and Chrysler LLC seeking billions in aid from Washington and warning of potential collapse if they do not get a bailout.
"We are seeing the beginning of the end of the American empire," said Howard Zinn, author of "A People's History of the United States."
On the right, former International Monetary Fund chief economist Simon Johnson sums up the view this way: "Capitalism is not dead, there is no alternative to capitalism.
"The myth of wonderful capitalism is dead but not capitalism, just the nice warm fuzziness."
Every week, there is more hard-to-believe news; a Wall Street trader arrested on charges of a $50 billion investor fraud, and the governor of Illinois accused of trying to sell the U.S. Senate seat vacated by President-elect Barack Obama.
There is now so little respect for President George W. Bush that an Iraqi journalist threw his shoes at him on Sunday, a grievous insult in Iraqi culture. Bush prepares to leave office next month with a presidential legacy battered by the grim economy and the unpopular war in Iraq.
Everyone agrees the situation in America, now officially in recession, is certainly bleak.
"Everyone wants to save and no one wants to spend. That makes it very hard to get growth," said Johnson, likening the U.S. economic predicament to having fallen into a bathtub and struggling to get traction to climb up the slippery wall.
THE COMING GLOOM
Experts are uncertain how long the American economic malaise will linger. Some predict a year or two, others fear a slowdown of as long as a decade, reminiscent of Japan's lost decade of the 1990s.
"Things are bad," said Alan Ruskin, chief international strategist at RBS Greenwich Capital. "This is not a typical recession, but it is still not like the Great Depression."
While there has been much talk about the misery of the 1930s, economists say this slump will not be so dramatic.
Massachusetts Institute of Technology economist Johnson noted, "If you had gone to Tokyo (in the 1990s), you would have seen that it looked quite respectable and people looked reasonably happy, but there was no growth."
Likewise, he said Americans should brace for "low growth not fast enough to create meaningful jobs for people" for the next five to 10 years.
A poll released by Marist College Institute for Public Opinion on Monday showed 24 percent of Americans thought it likely they would be laid off or see their working hours cut in the coming year.
Andre Myrtil, who owns a small technology outsourcing business in New York, sums up the business environment for many, saying he is getting less work and companies are being slower in paying him. "There's no work. My phone's not ringing."
"I'm not throwing in the towel yet," he said. "It can only get better, but time will tell."
Many believe the only way out of the mess is the government spending huge amounts of money. But how much exactly is needed? "There is the capacity to literally have helicopter drops of cash," Ruskin said.
Most expect Obama will approve a fiscal stimulus package worth hundreds of billions of dollars soon after his inauguration on January 20.
"American economic dominance has diminished and it is going to take some time for our economy to grow again. We are in for an extensive period of slowdown or decline," said Howard Chernick, an economics professor at New York's Hunter College.
"There is really only the willpower of the government to get us out of this," he said.
As well as spending huge amounts of money as happened during President Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal to confront the Depression, Chernick said Obama must deliver on another of his campaign themes -- "hope."
"Confidence will be a big issue and there, you can only hope," said Chernick. "One of the lessons historians took away from the New Deal was that Roosevelt had some potency, not just in fiscal decisions, but in instilling confidence."
HOPE AND CONFIDENCE
But Zinn said, "Unless bold measures are taken to change the course of the nation, we are heading for trouble."
"Obama has not shown signs of being the right person for this. He has not shown the right boldness of vision."
For Zinn, Americans could push Obama to do what is needed with actions like those last week when workers in a Chicago factory staged a successful sit-in, demanding severance pay and vacation time they earned before being laid off.
"That is a glimpse of what would be needed on a very large scale -- civil disobedience and direct action to dramatize what problems people have ... to push Obama to being the kind of president he could be," Zinn said.
For others, America must keep faith with capitalism.
"There is still some faith in markets even if there is now
acceptance that financial sectors need considerably oversight," said
Ruskin. "The problem is, the horse has shot out of the barn and is well
over the horizon."
(Reporting by Mark Egan; additional reporting in New York by Nick Zieminski; Editing by Peter Cooney)
- Posted in



119 Comments so far
Show AllThe end of the empire can only mean the end of a growth economy through endless consumption. U.S. Americans are going to have to get used to the idea of living as less than equals in a multi polar world dominated by China, Inida, Russia and the U.N. The gov't can speed the change to an equitable economy of shared misery and lowered expectations by condeming the foreclosed homes, bulldozing them and holding the land in trust. The suburbs should be condemned as well and their residents reassigned to tiny eco-neutral apartments near their places of employment and/or deployment. While life may continue a declining standard in the U.S. the rest of the world will breathe easier and true progress can be made on the global warming front.
This sums it up, folks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6Fpoebz2LE
cool video thanks...........do you think i'm any better off with euros?????
"There is still some faith in markets even if there is now acceptance that financial sectors need considerably oversight," said Ruskin. "The problem is, the horse has shot out of the barn and is well over the horizon."
Wrong. They opened the barn door and found the horse dead, with multiple bullet wounds as well as being decapitated. The head was placed at the foot of Barack Obama's bed.
Yep
"Capitalism is not dead, there is no alternative to capitalism." Not an unexpected statement from a former IMF economist; however, there are alternatives.
Economic systems of capitalism, communism, socialism, imperialism, colonialism, totalitarianism, fascism, nazism, monarchism, corporatism, and all other centralist monetary-isms maintain the monopolized control of money, and hence the control of society itself, through their own brand of Legal Tender that excludes other forms of money from the Market.
As an example, instead of valuing everything in terms of dollars, how about in terms of kilowatts? Everyone uses electricity, everyone is familiar with a kilowatt. To save money would be to save kilowatts. Energy is the foundation of this economy, and an energy denominated form of money should be one of our monetary measurements.
But alas, that's thinking way outside the box. Instead, we'll repeat the cycle of depression and eventual war in order to preserve the capitalistic way of forced growth.
http://theformofmoney.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2005/9/18/1236759.html
http://theformofmoney.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/6/21/3015861.html
Sioux Rose
MAMMON: I explored this idea, too, only in my conception the means of commerce was rendered through time. Your hour of service (whatever it is that you're naturally good at, that can add to society or your community) is equal/equivalent to my hour of service. The time logged = one's collateral, and some of it is shared with their community for the acquisition of those things that can serve a lot of people at the same time. I call it "the universal time-bank exchange," and it's one of the many novel inventions in a work more or less channeled through me back in l990, which I recently self published.
Many are learning to live on less. Many are not. When 9/11 and Katrina happened, the world briefly saw the united side of America. People are starting to come together now to help one another get through this. But there are a lot of people with lots of guns, many of them with no idea of how to survive in tough times. That scares me. When it becomes obvious there's no end in sight on our slide to the bottom; and with more and more people out of work and becoming homeless, it could get very ugly. There will be those who revert to the animals we are, and they'll take whatever they need, wherever they can get it, for their own survival.
"But there are a lot of people with lots of guns, many of them with no idea of how to survive in tough times. That scares me."
Don't be afraid of the people with guns, they may be our only hope. I'm more worried about our government and what it's going to do. Will it help the common man or support the rich.
Rickster
"Will it help the common man or support the rich?"
Was that a rhetorical question?
-- EKATON --
People with guns are your best hope? That's pretty sad. Tell me, how are people with guns going to make the world a better place? Every single person in the world deserves a fair share of the earth's resources and an equal chance for a decent life. I don't see how people with guns furthers that cause.
"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
I didn't say they were I said they may be. It may end up being the only way we can take back our government. Do you think we could have used peaceful protest to win our independence from England back in the 1770's.
I'm not worried about lawful citizen gun owners. you seem to be. Most lawful gun owners don't commit crimes of aggression against others. Our government is doing it every minute of the day right here inside our borders.
Rickster
.I would ask whether you think people seemingly disinterested in the governmental process, people whose only concerns are the immediate ones, bills, etc. represent a way to solve our serious problems?
"I do not believe in a fate that falls on men, however they act. But I do believe in a fate that falls on men unless they act." G.K. Chesterton
I believe that some sort of revolution will indeed be necessary, precisely because of the apathy and indifference of our fellow citizens. I fervently hope that such a revolution will be a peaceful one, one not involving guns, as would any rational human I trust.
"Institutions are , in a moral sense, impotent unless they are supported by the sense of responsibility of living individuals." Albert Einstein
A revolution conjures up visions of death and we all should turn from such a vision, however, the current governance under which we live is guilty of similar and continuing acts that revolt all right thinking people. Whether we vote for one or the other political party and candidate we arrive at the same place, one that is unacceptable to me, is it to you as well?
"I hold that a little rebellion now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical." Thomas Jefferson
I have, for some time now, placed my faith in change in the growth of third party and independent candidates pledged to shun corporate monies and thus rid themselves of corporate influence. I do not know if this is indeed the proper path to the alteration of a governance that breeds excess in most things, but I cannot, so far, find an alternative that brings peaceful change. But I do not fail to understand the ones who begin to speak of guns, nor will I condemn them out of hand. I would, of course, urge them towards other and better attempts at change.
"There comes a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you cannot take part, you cannot even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies on the gears, and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus. And you've got to make it stop."
Mario Robert Savio
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
"Many are learning to live on less. Many are not."
Yes, and that's the tension and reality we have to deal with.
I am affiliated with others who are living on less and working to move outside the economy where possible. However, we also realize that there will be those (the majority) who can't or won't and when push comes to shove and desperation sets in...
Well, we can't let that stop us. The right thing to do is the right thing to do. The other way is to become "shotgun survivalists" but this is not the future we want to be.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
It's time America learns a new word: Justice.
How to achieve economic justice, save the starving millions and earn a great reputation once again in the world?
Sharing.
A World Teacher is about to step forward to awaken and inspire us to move forward.
BREAKING NEWS: www.WakeUpMankind.org
Revelation
Do you have the spirit of the revelation?
Is the true spirit in the Revelation?
Does it show God’s love?
Should it be included in the Do unto others book?
Have you read Revelation?
All agog with brimstone and retribution.
Where are we in the prophecy?
Searching for Babylon?
Hey Babylon has fallen
Mission accomplished
Abuh Graib the infidels as we
extend the new empire (Babylon)
Where are we in the prophecy?
Pondering the four extra spirits?
Searching for a new island penal colony
A new wall?
Those one hundred and forty four thousand…
Are they within the wall?
Have any seals been opened yet?
Are we busy looking for the beast?
Has that cradle river dried up yet spewing
Forth a beast?
What sort of beast?
Foul and frogish
Or jawed and dragonish
Perhaps…… a non-being with people rights
Yah a false prophet with one bottom line..
Aligning fire from above
with profit spin
Consumes us while we plunder
Our spaceship garden
God’s oceans of blood colored wrath
A tame form of ‘shock and awe’
While depleted U makes that
burning sulfurous lake blush with Bushness.
Say what color is Dubayah’s horse?
Has anyone seen the beast?
It is all about the spiritual. Money, technology and economic growth will never be the ultimate solution. Yes our nation is in need of stimulating economic recovery with a massive "New Deal" program, repairing the U.S. infrastructure, schools, etc. Also there is the need for increased government regulation of the abuses of predatory financial capitalism. But American society must go further.
At this time of national introspection, it is absolutely essential that the U.S. renew the spiritual dynamics of a healthy democracy. No one seems to want to talk about this. The lack of a healthy democracy is the major reason why we are in this mess in the first place. We need to talk about the redeeming spiritual values of democracy itself.
Howard Zinn touched upon this with his pleas for civil dissobedience and direct action. The spiritual dynamics of such action is most powerful and transformational. It is the essential element for radical social change.
Americans lost faith in the power of democracy to bring about a more just society. In our world of materialism we have forgotten democracy. Democracy is all about spirituality and fairness. Democracy is as much an exercise of the human spirit as in the practice of religion, but without dogma, absolutes, and the threat of theocracy.
It must begin with teaching the spiritual dynamics of democracy in our schools, colleges and places of worship. Just how do we go about teaching this is the first challenge.
"Americans lost faith in the power of democracy to bring about a more just society. In our world of materialism we have forgotten democracy."
You're right, not only have we forgotten it, we have pushed it down and rubbed it's face in the mud. Thanks to Bush and the likes, civil disobedience is deemed unpatriotic and people confuse healthy dissent with being anti-democratic. They don't get that a democracy- the ideals of it-- are not generated by the government, but rather by the people themselves.
Teaching (or examining) those ideals may be challenging in many environments, but the phrase "spiritual dynamics of democracy" (emphasis on 'spiritual') might scare some people off from the get go.
About materialism-- Maybe if the economy totally collapses, people will be forced to abandon those ideals.
Sioux Rose
STEPHEN: Well stated, and I fully agree. Here's one (of many) problem. For writers like myself, "The Writer's Guide" is an important staple consisting of about 1400 pages of prospective markets for one's work. The religious right has co-opted the use of the word spiritual (which reminds me of the toxic waste industry fighting hard to gain control of the word "organic" for their zesty sauces, and hope of spreading them around like so much lost top soil); and thus to lots of people, all those 50 million strong Tim Le Haye "End Times" fans, spiritual = what their preacher tells them.
Just as George Lakoff pointed out how the framing of words shapes debate and cognitive responses to it, in a sense, the co-optation of the word spiritual begs for a new definition or word to summon the Transition of consciousness you speak about. Renaissance? Awakening? The Great Healing (like The Great Turning), other?
To me, "Spiritual" is a word that has many meanings but is usually meant as the other side of Material... Spiritualism VS Materialism.
I believe you need both because we live in a material universe of matter even dark matter which is most of the matter in the universe and we are children of the matter created in dying exploding stars.
So the simple words that combine spirit and material are "love" and "Feelings".
When someone starts with me about the spiritual this and that and losing the ego and over reaches with it too much, I get the feeling I am being conned....
To me what works is feeling and "feeling love".... If we love something we want to feed and shelter it... that is material need and the feeling we have is Love.
I think we have enough words already... if they come from the heart they are most communicative possible.
Sioux Rose
JIM: I agree with you, but I wished to make the point that as far as publishing niches are concerned (and these play a role in detrmining which books are on which library and bookstore shelves) the right wing Fundamentalists have co-opted the USE of the word SPIRITUAL to suit their narrow purposes. It's upsetting given what spiritual means to them: authoritarian rules, RELIGIOUS prejudices that so often depart from PURE spirituality.
Yes I thought that was your point so why let them take away a word from you because they twist it to their own purpose?
Keep the Spirit of rebellion of "76"... it is our heritage.
It is like in one of my songs I sang "Im gonna take back the flag it belongs to me too."
Take the word back with all its other important meanings without getting hung up with their right wing message...
Don't let right wing dogma freak you out before you begin.... Fight back!
That would be a subject for a Book right there. The spirit of your book.
And find a left wing publisher when you finish.
Your statement is so simple and so powerful.
Yeah, things are going to hell in a hand basket. Not only do we have the failure of the financial system but our new President elect has surrounded himself with Clintonites. Clinton as you might remember signed on to NAFTA, WTO and signed the repeal of the Glass-Stiegel Act. In some ways these events are worse than what has happened as a result of our present idiot-President being elected for two terms (who wudda thunk?) and set the stage for much of the crises in the U.S. and the world that is unfolding day by day. There were no environmental protection in the NAFTA or WTO, there were no provision for the workers to organize so those jobs went to the sweat-shops of South East Asia, China and South of the Border down Mexico way. Goods were made on the cheap and sold in the walmarts of America because, unlike U.S. industry there no "green-fees", no pesky unions the U.S. can't compete unless we accept the wages and conditions of the sweat-shops. Glass-Stiegel kept the investment banks from pulling the shenanigans that happened after its repeal and now the chickens have come home to roost.
No one knows how this crises is going to end, not all the cards are on the table. We can't even get the Treasury or the Fed to tell us exactly what the hell they are doing with the $700B they so desperately had to have. No one know what off-the-book toxic investments are still being carried by the likes of Citicorp and Goldmansachs. Maybe the Fed can pull it off but my guess is we are more likely to see a Depression than not.
Alternative to capitalism, communism, etc.:
Global Online Democracy (G.O.D.)
Direct and decentralized.
What is coming? A lower standard of living, for certain. The prsent financial environment has been unmasked as unsustainable. Going forward, a skewing toward Keynes and a slight lessening of Friedman's influence would seem to be in order.
No kidding. Maybe it's time to have a serious look at the Scandinavian social democracies or even Canada as examples of how economic growth and industrial innovation can flourish, while still providing the people with a strong and substantive social safety net.
Scandinavian social democracies? You mean like the ones where all the kids get to attend college for free? And people don't have to sell their home when there's a serious illness in the family? The ones with only a mere fraction of the amount of crime seen in the US? The ones where moms and dads get one year paid maternity leave? The ones where everyone enjoys a comfortable high standard of living because they um, share? Are those the ones you mean?
The only sane direction is socialism with an emphasis on retooling our society to a publicly owned and accountable green economy. I fear that the only socialism we'll see in this country is national socialism as the ruling class finds it can no longer afford the charade of its pretend democracy and the disenfranchised majority become unruly. Only our militant unity can overcome this.
The Jaded Prole
This is correct.
of the KNOWN human civilization's social organization systems - socialism is eventually what will "save" things from getting worse and worse. capitalism clearly will not do this. it is inherently a DESTRUCTIVE force - by destroying entire economies in order to get "growth" for a few economies. it's just the way IT functions.
those that say "capitalism" is still the ONLY way and "there is no alternative" are simply singing the same old tunes because they can't possibly envision their own power or what they imagine they can gather in power "under capitalism" be threatened a social organization that does not place "profit" above human needs FIRST.
but , i think, a correction needs to be made:
DEMOCRACY is not necessarily the "necessary" means to achieve prosperity that has justice. witness == AMERICA . prosperous but justice is not commensurate with the claims about being a "democracy" and certainly FULL of economic injustices. in fact - despite the claims about being "able to make it in america if you work hard" is more an EXCEPTION than the rule, since the majority of people really are NOT getting their just rewards as dictated by the system...the wealth THEY create keeps getting swallowed UPWARDS leaving them with a pittance and the ":leftovers".
it was , i think Thomas Jefferson, along with James Madison who warned:
"CORPORATIONS and their growing power, along with the BANKING SYSTEM MUST be regulated -- and the accumulation of wealth in a few hands MUST be controlled -- for it will lead to UNJUST distribution of wealth -- and THAT will be the DEATH of liberty...democracy can no survive vast gaps in wealth"
i paraphrase -- but they DID warn about that. exactly what is happening in the US today.
so - to put it another way -- to HAVE democracy that is TRUE -- somehow -- the WEALTH GAP MUST BE fixed. democracy is really NOT as powerful as people think. in fact it is at its MOST VULNERABLE in a system that promotes vast economic injustices and wealth gaps.
EXHIBIT A : UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Can You Spare a Bear?
What is the carrying capacity of scarcity?
Do we fear there is a limit to human bounty?
Is there a pirate in the county who is Mother Theresa pure?
Sell me some air I'd like an affair with abundance
for scarcity knows there are no prophets of prudence
What sort of a mirror can profit scarcity produce?
unless...
it's somewhat loose
like devalued husbands looking for a golden goose
or a quickie without the noose
so
bend over for some duck and cover profit in the clover
the cliffs of dover erode but don't kneel... ever
Can anybody spare some scarcity?
What will profit be without it?
Do you tithe?
Are indulgences still alive?
Does the Pope know how to jive?
Is there a prophet in the tribe?
Will the sacred sacrifice be a bull..
that will proceed a charge..
with profit levers still at large?
The stern though smiling bear says: 'Do you care to deal?'
since...
the last bear was a downer
and plenty was a clown
while scarcity is still lookin
for another town
Death And Destruction Will Be.
Unable to stop the ruling 'Kast', people will be subject to state
terror, starvation and diseases.
The American way: 232 years of genocide, slavery and
warmongering. Shame on You.
No place to hide from Karma, the only functioning system of
justice.
With the Motto 'In God We Trust' it is clear that there is no cure
or betterment possible, or even desired. Because we are all
'sinners' from birth on, right?
The truth is simple:
Man Created God In His Likeness.©
May all Beings be blessed. Specifically the weak and ill minded.
What now for America? Perhaps it should spend the next ten years trying to put the shambles of its own house in order rather than running around the world interfering in everyone else's affairs.
It has no idea how to run an Empire, never did.
It can't even run itself!
www.dangerouscreation.com
as even the arch-conservative , patrick buchanan concedes:
"we should get out of this business of empire...it is untenable...we should get out of the business of interfering in the affairs of other nations...we should get out of those lands before they KICK US OUT"....
IMO -- capitalism INEVITABLY leads TO imperialism, because capitalism has no respect for national boundaries . i think that from the day capitalism was established as the way of life in america -- it was already FATED to become an imperial nation no matter the warnings or concerns of the founders against empire. it was a self-contradictory situation. and it BEGAN IN the US mainland. and spread globally - especially through monetary imperialism backed up by military power...until it ran smack against growing national awareness of other countries - which took decades to catch up -- but have displayed RESISTANCE time and again until the day , at present, for excample -- when the weight pushing back against american imperialism is MORE than the USA can handle. it has really met more than its match...which is :
THE REST OF THE WORLD -- that it has tried to dominate.
Sioux Rose
DAVID: Right on. Even if America and its message of exceptionalism touted 24/7 across the MSM doesn't get it (what you rightly pointed out), from the world's point of view, America is the fat, sluggish, bullying, closet alcoholic cousin that no one respects... and given his ostensible appearance, why would anyone respect his advice or ridiculous pronouncements? Peace-keeping force when the evidence of war after war, a dismal balance sheet of millions of dead citizens attests otherwise? A "leader" on the climate change parade when its citizens use 25% of the world's carbon, and can't be bothered to drive less, walk, turn off their gas guzzling engines, or shift their domestic thermostats? ETC.
"At this time of national introspection,it is absolutely essential that the US (all of us) renew the spiritual dynamics of a healthy democracy. No one seems to want to talk about this. The lack of a healthy democracy is the major reason why we are in this mess in the first place. We need to talk about the redeeming spiritual values of democracy itself"
Well said stephen v riley
NO REVOLUTIONARY MOVEMENT CAN SUCCEED WITHOUT AN UNDERLYING SPIRITUAL MESSAGE.SPIRITUALITY IS THE ESSENTIAL INGREDIENT FOR TRANSFORMATIONAL CHANGE.
What they're really saying when they claim there is no alternative to capitalism is that there is no alternative to tyranny.
the people who say that are LIKELY saying it with FINGERS CROSSED and trembling at the knees because they REALLY don't know what to do or how to save capitalism. they are TRAPPED in the repeating fantasy and religious faith in capitalism "fixing itself"...and not willing to recognize that it WILL meet a dead end sooner or later because it EXHAUSTS its own means which are based on DECEPTIVE, UNJUST, DESTRUCTIVE practices, until it begins to consume itself.
Karl Marx, regardless of what else his prescriptions became in PRACTICE - WAS correct in predicting that waves of crises - in between phases of "prosperity which lay down the foundation for the NEXT wider crises" - eventually will arrive at capitalism with NO room to move and then will collapse of its own weight.
SUDDENLY a "socialist" or left leaning thinker like the canadian John Kenneth Galbraith is in vogue -- why? because CAPITALISM has NO ANSWER to its own deterioration.
The economy is a subset of the environment, not the other way around. The purpose of major corporate media is to continually promote the notion that infinite growth within a finite ecosystem is not only possible, but desirable. It's like a cancer that survives by killing its host. Fifteen years ago I wrote a letter to the local newspaper saying exactly this. They published the letter, along with numerous other letters of mine over the years, but they never really listened. They never do.
Sioux Rose
ORCAN: Point well-taken except when the economy moves into things that are intangible like ideas. (Yes, they can take shape as books that we purchase, but they also have a life of their own that is intangible.) Enlightened capitalism, which is to say a balance of trade and regulations that respected the environment and operated on the basis of wisdom rather than rabid profit-mongering is possible. I like the model of "transaction" seen in Indigenous tribes. If you have an animal skin I need to keep warm, but I can sew, than I sew what you need fixed and you hand me an animal skin. It seems to me (and the circle dance of the heavens giving birth to the archetypes that we humans animate as our distinctive personalities) that the human mosaic was specifically designed for a sharing of our abilities. It's when a mainstream media convinces us that certain abilities are far more desirable than others, that the CEO is worth 500X the worker, that the actor who operates in a false reality is worth 100X more than the teacher, that we run into problems. Capitalism certainly plays a role, when it serves greed first and foremost. Can it be tamed, morphed into its gentler more conscious cousin?
Absolutely.
ABSOLUTELY clear-sighted comments! and one might add:
"the market" is only a SUBSET of the economy. the market is NOT the economy. just a part of it.
you know there still is some hope and contrary to mr. zinn and in deference to his great service and wisdom i offer my humble opinion. capitalism may yet die the slow, agonizing death of stranglulation (as opposed to hanging); over time, if we were to change our patterns of consumption--starve the beast, we may yet breathe free. i will not elaborate, but suggest, that Voluntary Simplicity is and has been the answer for which we are looking. check it out; VS has a long history and is a potent anti-dote to capitalism.
May YOUR wise, calm words come true --Sherman. Thank you.
there are innumerable things that are wonderful about the american people. they are warm, loving, friendly, individually very generous and when Uncoerced by self-serving policies and people - are about as caring as you can find anywhere on the planet . and that is what is SO tragic about how the capitalist system -- to be PRECISE -- has TWISTED and CORRUPTED much of what is so GOOD about americans. ..which is the ability or willingness, if ALLOWED by circumstances that usually only TRAP them in a cocoon of deluded ideas about "exceptionalism" , to look BEYOND themselves and see themselves as ONLY part of a far, far, infinitely larger whole.
if only americans weren't so coerced , generation after generation, they would TRULY exemplify the best that a society and people could be.
THE PROBLEM , imo, if it can be reduced to a few words is:
SUPERNATIONALIST CAPITALISM where it equates with "being america" as something HOLY -- and become a RELIGION.
this is what saddens me so much.
True.
America is powerful, but not, quite, an empire. The US is an introverted culture which believes itself to be the litmus for the world - because it has no knowledge of the world.
When the world takes exception to American assumptions the US bites back, angrily. Now pretty much everybody hates the US, with good reason.
Bush is an idiot, and yet the American people have chosen him, twice, to lead them. No wonder Americans are hated.
Ulpian...it's not -- YET -- so much that americans are "hated"...
it is the POLICIES that promote the social organization that americans adhere to that is really disliked because of the destructiveness it inflicts everywhere across the globe.
HECK -- if capitalism first world countries THEMSELVES are the CENTER of the disasters (albeit spreading so destructively to poorer countries that can ill afford the effects which DID NOT start WITH them) -- what ELSE does that mean if not:
CAPITALISM ITSELF is a ROTTEN system?
Yes: capitalism is a problem, but Americans unfortunately represent an American form of capitalism when they are abroad. Combine this with the robotic American military and you have a problem. The whole world is exposed to American culture in films and music. Europeans may be able to disassociate reality from the selfish and naive promiscuity and violence portrayed, but traditional cultures take it as a true representation of, what they perceive to be, a truly decadent way of life. And the media are only the beginning. Believe me, Americans are disliked.
I revisited old friends in the middle east last year and I felt the need to apologise for my government before I could even say hello to very good friends, who I hadn't seen for twenty years and who I was to stay with. I am British by the way, and deeply ashamed of my own corrupt government.
all i can say to you , Ulpian , is:
May you be blessed in your life with only good things. you have heart and conscience.
End of empire, for sure!
How about Caroline Kennedy as the post-empire senator? She's shy, muted, the new anti politician. Oh give me Caroline over that blowhard Schumer or that dingbat Reid.
Dr Wu, the last of the big-time thinkers