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UN Rights Investigator Expelled by Israel
JERUSALEM - Israeli authorities on Monday expelled Richard Falk, a United Nations investigator of human rights in the Palestinian territories, saying he was unwelcome because of what the government has regarded as his hostile position toward Israel.
Richard Falk speaking in Istanbul in 2005. His positions have angered Israeli officials. (Cem Turkel/A.F.P. — Getty Images) Mr. Falk, an American, arrived in Israel on Sunday. He was held at the airport and placed on the first available flight back to Geneva, his point of departure. A spokesman for the Israeli Foreign Ministry said that Mr. Falk had been informed in advance that his entry would be barred. Mr. Falk was not immediately available for comment.
Mr. Falk, a professor of international law at Princeton, has the title of United Nations Human Rights Council special rapporteur for the Palestinian territories. He has long been criticized in Israel for what many Israelis say are unfair and unpalatable views.
He has compared Israel's treatment of the Palestinians to Nazi atrocities and has called for more serious examination of the conspiracy theories surrounding the Sept. 11 attacks. Pointing to discrepancies between the official version of events and other versions, he recently wrote that "only willful ignorance can maintain that the 9/11 narrative should be treated as a closed book."
In his capacity as a United Nations investigator, Mr. Falk issued a statement this month describing Israel's embargo on Gaza, which is controlled by Hamas, as a crime against humanity, while making only cursory reference to Hamas's rocket attacks against Israeli civilian centers. Israeli officials expressed outrage.
When his appointment was announced by the Human Rights Council last spring, the Israeli representative said it was "impossible to believe that out of a list of 184 potential candidates," the members had made "the best possible choice for the post."
The American and Canadian representatives also expressed concerns about Mr. Falk's possible bias. The Palestinian representative said it was curious that Israel was "campaigning against a Jewish professor" and called the nomination "a victory for good sense and human rights." Israel objects to the mandate of the special rapporteur on grounds that it ignores all human rights violations by Palestinians, either against Israelis or against other Palestinians. More specifically, it objects to Mr. Falk.
A statement issued on Monday by the Foreign Ministry noted that in the past three years, Israel welcomed visits by seven special rapporteurs of the Human Rights Council and two other senior United Nations representatives.
In Mr. Falk's case, it continued, his "vehement publications" made it "hard to square his appointment" with the council's own requirements, which call for envoys to be impartial and objective. The council's own procedures require its envoys to operate with the consent of the state concerned.
A Foreign Ministry spokesman, Yigal Palmor, said that Mr. Falk had come to Israel in June for what was supposed to be a personal visit, but had instead carried out work as a rapporteur. "He lied," Mr. Palmor said.
Regardless of Mr. Falk's views, some Israelis questioned the wisdom of banning him, noting that it would hardly make his reports more sympathetic.
Jessica Montell, the executive director of B'Tselem, an Israeli group that monitors human rights in the occupied territories, said that even if Israel had "legitimate concerns about Professor Falk's mandate," barring his entry was "an act unbefitting of democracy."
Also on Monday, Israel released 224 Palestinian security prisoners from its jails as a gesture to the Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas.
Most of those released were serving sentences of five years or less. None had been convicted of deadly attacks on Israelis, and none were from Islamic groups hostile to the Palestinian Authority, like Hamas.
Israel has released almost 1,000 Palestinian prisoners in the past 18 months in an effort to strengthen the Western-backed administration of Mr. Abbas. At least 9,000 remain in Israeli jails.
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59 Comments so far
Show AllLets vote for an embargo against Israel until they come to an international tribunal for war crime against humanity.
AldoinSF
Apparently, anything that even vaguely resembles the truth about the Middle East constitutes a "hostile position toward Israel."
q
… I heard a rummer that Jello has been banned in Israel,
___ as being too pro-Palestinian.
Namaste
Professor Falk is a credit to jews everywhere. Goodness knows jews need people like him. Too many jews today are perceived as the new Nazis, the instigators of World War Three and global nuclear holocaust.
His position on the 9/11 theories makes me understand that he is not just a puppet for the powers that be, and that means his criticism carries weight with me.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
--Sinclair Lewis
I second that notion.
So, not even the United Nations is allowed into the Israeli's death camps.
No food, no fuel, no hope and no work for Arabs. Because, every Jew knows, Arbeit macht frei.
Being that any notion of human rights itself (at least for Palestinians) was expelled from Israel long ago, I'd say that this in unsurprising.
When the Palastinian mothers and children are reduced to searching for grass to boil for supper, there should be many UN investigators on the scene, and certainly Senators, Congresspeople, the President-elect and Vice President-elect, the Prime Minister of England, the Queen of England, ecetera, should be speaking strongly to Israeli leadership to stop their Crimes Against Humanity a/k/a in this case the ongoing GENOCIDAL actions against 1.6 million Palestinians sealed within the walls of Gaza.
Conveniently, the 99-plus United Nations resolutions against Israel, many for its abusive, inhumane treatment of Palestinians, have all been vetoed by the United States.
Also conveniently, after recognizing and ratifying on December 21, 2000, the Rome Statute of the International Court of Justice, located at The Hague, both Israel and the United States renounced these signatures in 2002 and withdrew from recognizing the jurisdiction of the International Court and its stringently-argued, carefully-crafted and approved-by-many-nations body of law.
One can only surmise that both the U.S. and Israel had nasty plans ... try the invasion and attack of Iraq and what has followed ... more than 1 million dead Iraqi civilians and chaos, and methodically doing away with the Palestinians as just another nifty Final Solution for too many inferior people ... and whatever other horribles.
Personally, I am sickened by the violence against humanity by the United States, Israel, and the still intact old Colonial power ... Great Britain and a few others.
Never does the exploitation of and the rabid desire for natural resources that other countries have, whether diamonds, gold, oil, natural gas, various minerals, forests, and cheap labor stop. Always a new scheme to control this or that and have power over and TAKE whatever as if it were a right. Such arrogance! Yes, corporations do the dirty work for various countries, but they were given the gift of deregulation starting with Ronald Reagan in the 1980's. Accountability once was important. Now there is just scandal entertainment on the boob tube news, but rarely are those responsible held to account.
What the worst of our and other countries' leadership of the old Colonial mindset do is always excused as "in the national interest." It is not in the national interest, as I see it, to rob, cheat, kill, manipulate, stir up trouble, destroy, grab, oppress, incarcerate, attack, bomb, and create more devastation and chaos in weaker and poorer countries than there ever was before.
If the arrogance and hypocrisy continue like this, and with the kinds of weapons loose on the planet, there will be a flashpoint someday, and most of the human species will cease to be.
Business suits may look grown up, but the way it seems to me by the results, those inside those expensive business suits are unevolved, juvenile, self-serving and truly stupid, despite all the fancy words or letters after their names.
After all this time, the simplest of universal ethics still escapes us. Treat others as we wish to be treated and do not treat others the way we do not wish to be treated. Just imagine if that is the way nations conducted business with each other, and businesses conducted business with each other, and people of all walks of life conducted their life business with others that way.
Out there somewhere a mother and her child are foraging for grass for supper, and in another place a father rolls mud into little balls to feed himself and his children. "It makes the stomach feel better to have something in it," he said, as he popped the mud-ball breakfast into one of his children's mouths.
Unconscionable moments of the first decade of the 21st Century, and it doesn't have to be this way, especially because, I'm quite sure, that more of us know better and are better than this than not.
Too true, Global Citizen. Too true. We are F*#@ED.
Does anyone know how many Palestinians have died this year?
Yeah, maybe like two people, bud. The rest are worried about the economy.
I mean that perhaps two people know how many Palestinians have died. Of course, it's more than two. Is there a minimum number that is acceptable to you, sir?
That was certainly offensive. Are you just obtuse. Do you not recognize a simple question or is your need for a blast of moral certitude and self righteousness that desperate.
Since Sept.29th 2000 at least 4,897 Palestinians and 1,062 Israelis were were killed .(Source....The Israeli Center for Human rights in the Occupied Territories)These are considered very conservative stats.
Thomas,
That is the best I can come up with at this time.
Thanks very much. I appreciate your helping me out. There are so many figures floating around it made my head spin. I was sure someone here would know where to look for a realistic figure.
And a very merry Christmas to you and your family!
Thank You Thomas, And Merry Christmas to you also. My wife and I are headed down to our home in Georgia on Monday to spend the Holiday Season with our children. Both are students. Our daughter in studying at UT@Austin and our son at UNC@Chapel Hill. (20&23yrs old)Our neighbors who have been looking after our home while we are up here in Canada have apparently decorated the house for us. Those Americans are such terrible people.(A tear of joy in my eye)
I am told all I will have to do is unpack my bags and open a beer. (Not necessarily in that order.) In the meantime I will catch up on some reports (Gotta pay the rent lol)and continue to read CD.
I am off subject as usual. But ............
Thomas Gilbert
Be safe.
Obviously your daughter is the smarter of the two siblings.
I'd open one first!
Well our son is a first year med student at Chapel Hill so he seems to think he is the smarter sibling. Our daughter on the other hand is a liberal arts student at UofT in Austin and she is absolutely convinced she is the smarter sibling.Hmmmm? If I were 20 years old old would I like to be a student interested in the arts attending UofT in Austin? You bet I would.
Collective Punishment is a War Crime. And Israel is doing just what the Germans did. No food, water, gasoline, medicine. They are murderers. The Gaza strip is a huge Nazi style camp.
Silence is Consent.
First of all, you are not correct. What Israel is doing in Gaza is NOT the same as what the German did. Are you comparing partial siege (Gaza has a common border with Egypt which is not controlled by Israel + Israel allows basic humanitarian aid to enter Gaza) to the Holocaust (Extermination camps, gas chambers etc...)?
If you do want to stick to fact, at most you can claim that the fact that Israel doesn't sell diesel to Gaza should be regards as a collective punishment.
If that is the case - would you equally agree that when the allies didn't sell diesel to Nazi Germany during world war II - that was also a collective punishment?
Would you equally agree that when Iran and Saudi Arabia refuse to sell Oil to Israel - they too commit a collective punishment?
Or are you the sort of person who say that Israel should be judged by one set of rules, while all other nations should be judged by another?
All nations have equal rights and should be judged by the same standards!
First of all, you are not correct. What Israel is doing in Gaza is NOT the same as what the German did
Yes, it is. The first thing the Nazi's did was to isolate the population that they wanted to get rid of. They didn't start by building Auschwitz, they started with your run of the mill concentration camp. The rest of your 'arguement' is foolish. It's not just diesel that the Isreali's are blockading, but food, medicine and access to health care. They're banning the people from leaving the territory. And have tortured those that are allowed to travel. They still control the border between Gaza and Egypt, and forced the Egyptians to close the border when the Gazan's broke a hole in it last summer.
- Palestinian population (1.2 million Arab Israelis) within Israel is NOT isolated.
They have full citizenship rights. They enjoy freedom of speech and religion. They can vote and be elected to the Knesset (The Israeli parliament).
- Jews in Nazi Germany was isolated because they were considered sub humans.
- Gaza is a territory outside Israel, under the control of the Hamas, and NOT under Israeli control (since 2005).
- The European Jews during the holocaust were under Nazi control.
- What Israel is doing is a partial siege. the reason I call it partial is because Gaza share a border with Egypt which is not controlled by Israel. Also some humanitarian aid do come into Gaza from Israel.
- The Nazis do was somewhat difference.
- The Hamas can end the partial siege any time they want. They know exactly what they have to do. (Stop firing rockets on Israeli civilians) Unfortunately, their ideology is far more important to them than the welfare of the people under their control.
- Jews didn't fired rockets on German cities from the Gethos and the extermination camps. And at no time they had the control on when to renew humanitarian aid to the death camps.
LETTO embarrassingly asserts that :- Gaza is a territory outside Israel, under the control of the Hamas, and NOT under Israeli control (since 2005).
… so the naval blockage by Israel and the periodic invasions into Gaza are completely illegal ?
… and Gaza is a INDEPENDENT national state of itself, so it should have UN recognition ( in your dreams ? ), and sovereign rights EQUIVALENT to those of Israel ?
So please do provide your evidence ( a map will do ) of this new country that no one knows about, even those inside of Gaza ?
Namaste
Yep.
The Nazis used the starvation tactic against Jews in order to keep them in a weakened state. Israel (not Jews), Israel is using that same tactic on Palestinians today.
There is no excuse for it.
Taking one of many action that X does, and say that Y=X because Y also do the same specific action, is not a good comparison.
The Nazis also used to breath air. Does that makes Buddhist monks are Nazis?
Lean history, and you may find out that the Nazis did more, much more that partial siege...
Send Sen Joe Lieberman on the front lines in Israel. He should fight for his
country in Israel, he cannot do it here unless he is a spy..
Israel is truly a pathetic place. Why anyone would want to raise their children there is beyond me-unless they love living like this, and with a straight face, no less. They won't have a friend in the world before long, and they don't seem to care one bit. Talk about 'war against all'-it seems to be what they want. They are rushing towards an apocalypse of their own creation-and trying hard as hell to bring the rest of us 'Goyim' with them!
Here's what I have to say to ALL the fundamentalist religious people out there who just can't seem to get along without killing everything around them: Why don't you all just rip out your OWN throats, and be done with it already. Everything you infantile fools touch turns to shit.
I just read that the U.S. gave 2.4 billion dollars to Israel in aid this year, mostly to buy weapons. If that much money is going there, the U.S. must be held responsible for the impossible conditions in Gaza and the other refugee camps that Israel set up to starve out the Arab population, and for the weapons, tanks, rockets, and bombs that maim and kill innocent civilians in those camps.
With that much money heading away from our country, (along with the war in the middle east and other aid packages to countries), it's no wonder that we can't afford reasonable health care, education programs, social services, unemployment benefits, (the list goes on). And I didn't even get started on wall street corporate thieves stealing taxpayer's money.
This country is propping up countries around the world and disregarding it's own citizens, except for the very rich of course.
I haven't read the article yet, only posting the following links, which are to resources that are certainly related enough.
"Jewish Settler Violence in Hebron (Al-Khalil)", (with video, 10:00),
by Haitham Sabbah, sabbah.biz, Dec 15 2008
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m49609
He links to http://www.HEB2.tv, "HEB2: Experimental Broadcasting out of H2 Hebron", and the website is for making documentaries out of videos taped by Palestinians in Hebron; videos of "Jewish" settler violence against, "of course", the Palestinians and which Sabbah says that the settlers really don't like, being 'afraid' of being caught videotaped.
HEB2.tv apparently started broadcasting only last month, the oldest of the videos I saw there just a few hours ago was originally broadcast Nov. 22nd. Some of the videos are of serious enough length, for a couple of them work out to ... one a little over 94,000 bytes, and the other to over 180,000,000 bytes, but even the shorter ones are long enough to be very informative. I haven't viewed them yet, but expect these to be important.
(I downloaded them using www.OrbitDownloader.com and its Grab++ tool, though Giganology's Gigaget is also supposed to be very good for this and both are freeware. When their video grabbing features don't work, for some videos (finding this at Google, f.e.), then I use www.splandoo.com , while www.zamzar.com is also supposed to be a good site to use for doing downloads or else getting the download links or URLs to copy to Orbit..., say; besides other websites that provide this functionality, but while I only need one and have two bookmarked.
I wanted to do this before seeing the site disappear due to Israeli oppression and the PA too often acting as if for the interests of the rulers of the Israeli government, f.e. Orbit... worked fine, but new users of it may be a little confused, at first, for the user is prompted by OrbitDownloader's Grab++ feature to reload the Web page and then it seems the video has to be also started, once the page is reloaded, after which Grab++ does get the url and then the actual download can be run.)
That's just a tip for anyone who'd be interested.
I figure these must be valuable videos, so to make backups, ... why not?! It's great to finally have adequately high speed internet; having only gotten it last month for the first time.
Anyway, these two above resources, the article by Sabbah and HEB2, will surely be revealing in terms of why it is that the Israeli leadership would want to refuse the UN rights investigator permission to enter the Palestinian territories. It's a little odd though, for the Israeli leadership is hereby making it clear that it has extreme crimes to try to hide from view of the rest of humanity or the world here; humanity not being particularly fitting to say, really, for I said the "rest of humanity", as if including this Israeli leadership, which doesn't resemble anything human at all. They certainly have no grounds upon which to stand in griping about the Holocaust of the WWII era. After all, they're as bad, or worse! I often think 'worse' is the actual reality. And they are the greatest cause of hatreds being generalised against all Jews, as if all of them were in support of these extreme crimes, while many Jews are not, many enough being opposed. True Torah Jews are opposed, and many other Jews, who aren't necessarily religious about their being Jews at all are also opposed.
Similarly when we hear and read words of hatreds against "Americans", as if we're all in support of our government's extreme crimes, rogueness, etcetera, while we definitely are not all in support. Or ... the same with respect to Christians, as if we're all in support of evil, when only some, far too many, but only some are; definitely not all.
I recommend Sabbah's article, to read it, and check out the video he provides. It's also available at http://sabbah.blip.tv/file/1578431/ , for which www.splandoo.com works, while needing to select the blip.tv option or video url format.
In the hope that the people of this forum are open minded and support human right - for all humans, without discrimination of any sort, I will try show a different viewpoint on the subject at hand.
Here is some data on the UN human right Council.
http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKISNqEmG/b.1518297/k.7483/Human_Rights_Council.htm
Since their creation in 2006, this Council had passed 25 resolutions. 20 of them against Israel (80%), 4 against Myanmar, and 1 against North Korea.
All other 190 UN members had basically been granted immunity from being declared as human right violators by this Council. (Many of whom committed horrible human right violations, some worse by a factor of 1000 when compared to the Israeli Palestinian conflict)
It is clear that there is some biased / double standard in the way the UN human right Council operates. They put extra focus ONLY on Israel, and they do NOT regards all human right victims on this planet as equally worthy of their time.
Richard Falk
In the past, Mr. Falk (A Jew himself) compared Israel's action in Gaze to the Nazi holocaust, which is a complete nonsense. (The Nazi holocaust was somewhat more than a partial siege and an occasional killing of Homosexual Gypsies and Jewish militants who were engaged in 8 years of daily rocket and mortar bomb attacks on German civil targets. Additional difference that pops into my mind is the luck of Gas chambers, crematoriums and extermination camps in the Gaza case.)
Also, Mr. Falk mandate was to investigate ONLY Israel's human right violations, and to bluntly ignore the Hamas' human right violations against Palestinians and Israeli civilians.
Peace and equality for all!
Bless his non zionist Jewish heart, in my book of values stealing other peoples property ordained by you own self appointed god is wrong.
However if we are playing by the laws of the Jungle predatorily laws reigns supreme and to the victor the spoils.
Both rules are correct, However the rule used depends on who is dispensing the rules
"stealing other peoples property ordained by you own self appointed god is wrong."
1) All the counties on this planet, including your own - were founded on a land stolen from other people.
2) Most Zionists are seculars who doesn't believe in God.
As for your last comment, - unfortunately it is true.
Regardless, The UN council for human right was wrong to claim that Israel should be the only party to be investigated. I totally support Israel's decision not to corporate with that council before they reform and start working according to the Universal principles written in the UN charter.
Wouldn't it be great if one of the countries that support Israel would make available a large tract of land in their country and allow Israel to relocate. I'm sure the Jewish God wouldn't mind because, as God, he can see everything, everywhere, can't he?
Then the Palestinians, rightfully, would be able to get their land back and the whole Middle East would settle down and it would cease to be a continuing source of war or a potential nuclear holocaust zone.
Just a thought!
www.dangerouscreation.com
What if they don't want to be "relocated"? Would you use force to ethnically cleanse 6 millions Jews from Israel?
As for your theory that the middle east would settle down after that ethnic cleansing - I would say it is somewhat naive. The non Jewish nations and religions of the middle east never stopped fighting since the beginning of history.
Letto, force was used by Israel to relocate the Palestinians to the dregs of what was their land and they certainly didn't want to be relocated.
Force is still being used by Israel to steal even more of the Palestinians land and to continue to occupy and brutalize them. That's why they don't like the Jewish Professor because he tells the truth.
Why would you draw a distinction between the two types of relocation? What applied to Palestinians should rightfully apply to Israelis.
Force was also used to relocated native Americans by European settlers in the good old U.S. of A.
Force was also used to clean 99.8% of the land mass of the Middle East from Jews, in greater numbers than Palestinians forced out of Israel (In 1948, many Arab countries had Jewish communities, some existed for 2500 years).
I didn't see any representative of U.N human right council investigating Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Morocco or USA.
My point is that what we have now, is what we have now.
Am I to understand that you support the idea of "relocate by force" the Jews who live today in Israel? But on the same time NOT to "relocate" any other people which their ancestors committed the same thing?
The reason Israelis didn't cooperate with the Jewish professor is because he is not impartial.
If he would have come to check all sides, both the Hamas and Israel's actions, that he would have been allowed in. Unfortunatelly, being impartial was never his intention.
You mean like New York and Florida?
:D
Only guilty people can't stand to hear the truth! For shame, Israel!!!
The anti-semitism is getting hard to bear here. Aside from that, no matter how just the Palestinian cause might be to promote the fairy tale that Israel is bad, Palestinians good is Horsefeathers.
There is plenty of blame to go around. As to relocation of the Jews, lets put them back on their on land before they were dispersed. It belongeed to them before it was stolen from them. That seems a simple soulution.
Does the vote of the UN mean nothing by the way?
Thomas More:I prefer to call it Jew hating. I suggest the good book (or video)"Constantine's Sword" by James Carroll (yes, the same one who has articles on CD). I was sad to see on another batch of comments that you were in Vietnam during that war. James Carroll, someone said, was actively working for peace. He'd been in seminary, but quit. "Constantine's Sword" is about the history of the Church's hatred of Jews. I read a lot of it, but stopped when he got theological. (I'm an atheist Jew and didn't feel like reading theology.) The book goes the whole way, from the beginning (hence Constantine) up to its culmination in the European Holocaust. I'd always wondered and he answered the question:Christians hate Jews because we don't accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah and won't become Christians. (That's my one sentence summary.)
There's a good group in NYC: Jews Against the Occupation of Palestine:
www.jatonyc.org.
And getting back to the subject of the article: Amy Goodman had a good interview with Mr.Falk this morning on DemocracyNow, transcript and show online: (transcript will stay) www.democracynow.org.
NYCartist
Thanks for the kind suggestion. I actually read a lot about Constantine, one of my favorite emperors, but I haven't read "Constantines Sword," but I will on your rec. The Roman period is one of my favorites along with Elizabethan England, Napoleanic period and WW2, especially the Nazi era ( 1933 to 40 really)
"Christians hate Jews because we don't accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah and won't become Christians. (That's my one sentence summary.)"
And a good one for many Christians probably. I believe there are many others that don't feel that way. I don't hate jews I know. Besides....what if we Christians are wrong and you Jews are right! I'm counting on my Jewish friends to keep me out of trouble.
"I was sad to see on another batch of comments that you were in Vietnam during that war."
I was a bit sad to be there myself! Kind of you to mention it. I spent 14 of my months there in combat and I came back so I'm lucky, lucky. I left too many there.
There are many veterans here, Ardee, Tirebiter and others.
Thomas More:I didn't know the others:ardee,tirebiter were Vietnam vets. Well, guys, I was out on a vigil line (all women) in NOLA for awhile in the mid1960s, some demonstrations...I am so so sad for you all. 14 months. I have relatives by marriage who were disabled by agent Orange. Sigh. On the Germans:I read "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" and it was wonderful, when it first came out, by William Shirer. I recommend it highly. Spouse and I are reading a couple of fiction titles that I want to pass along to you: we just started "The Foreign Correspondent" by Alan Furst,2006 that is in the 30s. Really like it. And together, we are also reading the Anne Perry series on WWI that has an odd plot, but really explores war and I am sure she started it as a response to US and England starting the war on Iraq in 2003 as war protest. I really do highly recommend the "Constantine's Sword",which I also read with spouse. (I'm the family librarian.) Good holidays, good sir.
Orange was bad stuff. I was lucky enough to spend most of my time around the mountains. Wasn't used there much.
Serving wasn't all bad, you learn many things you can't without it. And you will find the most anti-war, the most dead set against violence are combat veterans. They understand it best of all.
Loved "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," The period is fascinating.
Merry Christmas young woman!
Thomas More:you are so chivalrous. I am older than you by at least a decade. I don't take offense, but I do not celebrate Christmas. As a child, Christmas was celebrated in the public schools in NYC. I felt totally the outsider. At the same time, I lived among Italian Catholics in Brooklyn. I spent a lot of time in the neighbors' across the street, and was close to the grandparents who didn't speak English (but neither did my Jewish grandmother).
I had a long discussion recently with a friend (same illness:CFS/ME) in England, a convert from Protestant to Catholic about not wanting to be a part of Christmas, as a Jew. I ignore all December holidays, except New Years:all of them that I learn about. Did you join the Veterans for Peace or Vietnam Vets Against the War? There's a nice video on YouTube of Dave Cline, one of the founders who died about two years ago; Cline had been disabled in Vietnam. Glad you were away from Orange. I would not have been good military material. The Army knew it. Right after college (I went on the GIBill), I applied to be a teacher on a base,civilian, anyplace. Rejected. It gave me respect for their judgment, as I look back. Many military in my family;my aunt, a former WAC, had a lifelong friend who taught on a military base. Merry Christmas to you. Which branch of Christian are you, if I may ask? And Happy New Year.
"Did you join the Veterans for Peace or Vietnam Vets Against the War?"
No I didn't, there were quite a few fakes in these groups just as there are in the Winter Soldiers and the like today. Many more good guys though. I simply couldn't stomach listening to war stories I knew were fake.
Dave Kline was a great guy. I didn't know he was gone. Sad to hear it.
I never thought I'd make a marine. But the draft cures your hesitations (LOL). My Dad was a Marine and he helped me by telling me what combat was really like and some things to watch out for and the types to stay away from. He was on Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima and Bougainville among others so he really knew about it.
Look at it this way, you get to celebrate all the holidays. Not just Christmas. Merry Christmas is more a greeting to say happy holidays anyway. My Jewsih friends say Happy Hanukkah to me!
I'm Catholic but I'm not a practicing one. I rarely attend church. But I don't feel the need. I am very religious however. From way back when I came home and did go straight to church....my Dad put in a nutshell for me, he said there aren't many atheists in a fighting hole. He was right.
But you should celebrate all the holidays!
Happy New Year!!!!!
I am a proud non-secular Christian and I have no hatred towards the Jewish people. I have never met a Christian who had any hatred for Jews. Many of my best friends are Jews. However, I do feel that the constant Israel/Zionist bashing is becoming more blatantly antisemitic (or Jew-hating) whatever you wish to call it. Sometimes when reading CD ,I can't help but get depressed at all the vile hate speech being lobbed at Israel and the Jewish people. Why is there so much attention being focused on Israel? Look at how many articles CD, Counterpunch, and Znet run against Israel compared with how few they run on much more severe conflicts like the Congo, Sudan, Columbia, or Chechnya. Why? Call it antisemitism, call it Jew-hating, call it what you will, but if you want to talk about who hate the Jews, it's not us Christians, it's all those so-called progressives.
Joehope,
I am also very sensitive to the many articles and comments that border on what I feel is antisemitism. With that said Joe,I oppose many of the policies of the state of Israel. Here I draw a distinction between the people and the state. I find that as far the commentators here at CD are concerned most criticize the policies of the nation state of Israel using the same standard they would apply to the United States or any other nation for that matter.Yes there are others who are obsessed with the very existence of the nation state of Israel but I will venture here to say that they are in the minority.
Take Care Joe
Dante:nicely put. (I read your comment to Thomas More below. See mine.) I am a Jew who fits your description of Americans critical of Israel government policies. I am very critical of my own government's policies. I also have noticed that a certain amount of Jew hating comes out during the comments, from some people. Totally separate from criticism of Israeli government policy. I read "Constantine's Sword" by James Carroll (most of the book) to find out why. (I won't repeat my comments made in the other comment space below articles relevant to this.)
NYCartist,
Thank you very much. You are one of my favroite commentators here at CD and I read everything you post.
I have said this many times before that on most occasions I learn more from the posted comments than I do from the articles themselves. But that is where my interests reside. I am really not interested in long dissertations supported by approved published references but rather real life responses by real people referenced to their own life experience. In short, comments to be understood in the context of the commentator's life. Of course in order for the reader to have any sense of context the writer must share something of her/his personal life experience. You certainly do this with just about everything you write. I attempt to accomplish the same when I wander (usually off topic) into the personal realm of my existence in order to provide a context for my special relationship with the nation and the people of the United States, For example, when I remind readers that my wife and two children are American citizens. Or, as in the case of my late brother, who like Thomas,ardee,and tirebiter, served in combat with the United States Armed Forces during the war in Viet Nam.
"I am a Jew who fits your description of Americans critical of Israel government policies.""I am very critical of my own government's policies"
Actually you were one of the people I was thinking about when I responded to our friend Joehope.
""Constantine's Sword" by James Carroll,"
NYCartist, I will put that book on my must read list.
Thank You once Again NYCartist. I will continue to seek out your comments here on CD.
I am not sure you will see this response. This article has been moved from the CD home home page.