Despite Huge Media Campaign, Facts Show Massive Failure In Iraq
‘Handed Over’ to a Government Called Sadr
BAGHDAD - Despite the huge media campaign led by U.S. officials and a complicit corporate-controlled media to convince the world of U.S. success in Iraq, emerging facts on the ground show massive failure.
The date March 25 of this year will be remembered as the day of truth through five years of occupation.
“Mehdi army militias controlled all Shia and mixed parts of Baghdad in no time,” a Baghdad police colonel, speaking on condition of anonymity, told IPS. “Iraqi army and police forces as well as Badr and Dawa militias suddenly disappeared from the streets, leaving their armoured vehicles for Mehdi militiamen to drive around in joyful convoys that toured many parts of Baghdad before taking them to their stronghold of Sadr City in the east of Baghdad.”
The police colonel was speaking of the recent clashes between members of the Shia Muqtada al-Sadr’s Mehdi Army, the largest militia in the country, and members of the Iraqi government forces, that are widely known to comprise members of a rival Shia militia, the Badr Organisation.
Dozens of militiamen from both sides were killed in clashes that broke out in Baghdad, Basra, Kut, Samawa, Hilla and most of the Iraqi Shia southern provinces between the Mehdi Army and other militias supported by the U.S., Iran and the Iraqi government.
The Badr Organisation militia is headed by Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, who is also head of the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council (SIIC) that dominates the government. The Dawa Party is headed by Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.
The number of civilians killed and injured in the clashes is still unknown. Iraqi government offices continue to keep largely silent about the events.
“Every resident of Basra knew the situation would explode any minute between these oil thieves, and that Basra would suffer another wave of militia war,” Salman Kathum, a doctor and former resident of Basra who fled for Baghdad last month told IPS.
For months now there has been a struggle between the Sadr Movement, the SIIC, and the al-Fadhila Party for control of the south, and particularly Basra.
Falah Shenshal, an MP allied to al-Sadr, told al-Jazeera Mar. 26 that al-Maliki was targeting political opponents. “They say they target outlaw gangs, but why do they start with the areas where the sons of the Sadr movement are located? This is a political battle…for the political interests of one party (al-Maliki’s Dawa party) because the local elections are coming soon (due later this year).”
The fighting came just as the U.S. military announced the death of their 4,000th soldier in Iraq, and on the heels of a carefully crafted PR campaign designed to show that the “surge” of U.S. troops in Iraq has successfully improved the situation on the ground.
“I wonder what lies General David Petraeus (the U.S. forces commander in Iraq) will fabricate this time,” Malek Shakir, a journalist in Baghdad told IPS. “The 25th March events revealed the true failure of the U.S. occupation project in Iraq. More complications are expected in the coming days.”
Maliki has himself been in Basra to lead a surge against Mehdi Army militias while the U.S. sent forces to surround Sadr City in an attempt to support their Badr and Dawa allies.
News of limited clashes and air strikes have come from Sadr City, with unofficial reports of many casualties amongst civilians. Curfew in many parts of Baghdad and in four southern provinces had made life difficult already.
“This failure takes Iraq to point zero and even worse,” Brigadier-General Kathum Alwan of the Iraqi army told IPS in Baghdad. “We must admit that the formation of our forces was wrong, as we saw how our officers deserted their posts, leaving their vehicles for militias.”
Alwan added, “Not a single unit of our army and police stood for their duty in Baghdad, leaving us wondering what to do. Most of the officers who left their posts were members of Badr brigades and the Dawa Party, who should have been most faithful to Maliki’s government.”
The Green Zone of Baghdad where the U.S. embassy and the Iraqi government and parliament buildings are located, was hit by missiles. General Petraeus appeared at a press conference to accuse Iran of being behind the shelling of the zone that is supposed to be the safest area in Iraq. At least one U.S. citizen was killed in the attacks, and two others were injured.
“The Green Zone looked deserted as most U.S. and Iraqi personnel were ordered to take shelter deep underground,” an engineer who works for a foreign company in the zone told IPS. “It seemed that this area too was under curfew. No place in Iraq is safe any more.”
Further complicating matters for the occupiers of Iraq, the U.S.-backed Awakening groups, largely comprised of former resistance fighters, are now going on strike to demand overdue payment from the U.S. military.
Ali, our correspondent in Baghdad, works in close collaboration with Dahr Jamail, our U.S.-based specialist writer on Iraq who has reported extensively from Iraq and the Middle East
© 2008 Inter Press Service
ya mean, you CAN’T run a country… let alone a WAR, on PR campaigns and photo-ops?
perhaps someone needs to let george bush know.
mission accomplished.
——————–
heckuvajob
The American people have been lied to from the very beginning with this war. The parallels to Vietnam are very clear. “If we leave there will be a massive slaughter.” WHY? Because the US created this situation. There is NO reason any more Americans should be killed or injured in Iraq. Arm the Iraqi people, army & police. Either learn to live in peace or die in pieces. We should offer asylum to any and all who wish to leave Iraq. Then withdraw all of our troops to the South to the oil fields. Afterall, that’s why we’re there!
As usual, Mr. Jamail’s reporting fleshes out the truth and reality of our occupation of Iraq. Thank you Dahr.
A historic and - for far too many even at this late date - sadly revelatory note would be to go back and read Sy Hersch’s “Selective Intelligence” that appeared in the New Yorker in May of 2003. Read it carefully - and then apply it to this article.
I visited with a rep of my Senator the other day - for the millionth time I asked about impeachment. The response: “Gee, we’re not on the Ag commitment, but improvement of any fruit species seems reasonable.”
And so it goes . . . . . .
So will anyone learn that one can’t buy the loyalty of people in an occupied country? Didn’t think so, I’m sure bush et al will still blame everyone other than themselves for their own errors. Obviously the dem’s didn’t give bush enough money for the war, the brits weren’t bloodthirsty enough, the french wouldn’t fight, but no one in power will ever admit they fucked up when invading Iraq.
Just as the US deals with financial crisis that result from deregulation by enacting more deregulation, the US influences public opinion on tax issues, Iraq occupation, etc. with ever larger PR campaigns.
And the US taxpayers never fail to pay for it all.
Thank you for this report-EMAIL THIS AROUND SINCE THE MEDIA IS NOT- Petreaus will testify in Congress next week- and this report will be a good perspective.
Petraeus himself has warned that Iraq will not be won by military means and that the surge was simply an opportunity for the political progress to proceed- there was no progress.
AlSadre himself has reached out to Iraqi Suni leaders and has shown he can work without causing murder- pretty good for a guy whose entire family was killed by Suni’s. His peace innitiative is being obayed by his followers. He did not start this fight. Other Iraq politicians traveled to Iran to negotiate this peace which everyone wants desperately.
Maliki has demonstrated that he used US military might US to get himself elected in the important October provincial elections which will administrate the oil laws passed recently.
US is looking for a real leader to take over Iraq but they do not want AlSadre because his plateform is the same as American voters: “US Get Out of Iraq”.
Also, the number of dead in Iraq from last week was reported as 150 by the NYTimes as high as 500 by Al Jaseera on Link TV and also just plain unknown. Coffins were driven on top of cars all over the country for immediate burial as is the custom of Muslim culture. It was all over Middle East TV but not here at home.
Meanwhile Marc Sageman, psychiatrist and terror expert spoke about his book :”leaderless Jihad” and said that the worst way to stimulate terrorism is for Chrstians to be seen killing Muslims.
Question: Did Cheney traveling to the Middle East a few weeks have anything to do with egging Malaki on and giving him a green light for this misadventure?
Four trillion dollars worth of a mission accomplished.
——————–
heckuvajob! Let’s all stand aside and watch this houseofcards collapse in a final defining moment.
good thing the war ended may 1, 2003.
otherwise we’d be doing pretty badly right now.
————————————-
“Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.”
george bush, the dumber
may 1 2003
It seems to me that Moktada’s faction remains immensely popular at the grassroots level because his political platform holds steadfast on three major issues that ordinary Iraqis care about deeply, regardless of their sectarian persuasion or their prior relationship to the Baath regime: complete withdrawal of US occupation forces sooner rather than later, maintaining Iraq’s historical geographical unity (no hard or soft partition into Kurdish, Sunni, and Shiite mini-states), and no privatizing of Iraq’s petroleum resources by means of a “new oil law” embracing long term production sharing agreements with foreign (ie., American) oil companies.
Efforts to demonize Moktada Sadr’s faction by US occupation authorities, the Maliki government, and even in PBS’s recent, otherwise well researched Frontline documentary seem to enhance, rather than diminish, his movement’s broad based popular support. Sure, he’s virulently anti-American, but what should we expect?
I anxiously await General Petraeus’s explanation of this phenomenon, the failure of the Basra and Sadr City assaults, and its relationship to the much ballyhooed success of the surge, when he comes to Washington with the latest progress report a few weeks from now.
Bill from Saginaw
The major error by the Bush cartel and our military lrasders and Rumsfeld, was to invade by land. That “Shock and Awe” propaganda was political hype.
Three B-2 stealth bombers, and a dozen (20) megaton nukes would have solved the problems and would have accomplished pretty much the same thing as we have now, a destroyed country, which is permanently contamined with deadly atomic waste. Now that would be “Shock and Awe” and it wouldn’t have cost even a billion dollars. Hell call th ethree flights training missions and the cost is even less. We had already bought the bombs, they wouldn’t have cost us anything. It would have been a “FREE” war with no American or allied casulties.
Consider this. Using a dozen nuclear “smart” bombs and there wouldn’t be very many Iraqis left to fight, if any and THEIR oil would be far easier to punp and sell. If your gonna start an illegal and unjust war, kill a bunch of innocent people, men, women and children, ___ do it right and get it over with. That way you garner world wide respect and credibility and no dead or wounded troops and a ruptured economy. We could have done the same thing in Vietnam.
Dumb-ass politicians.
“when he comes to Washington with the latest progress report a few weeks from now.”
so they won’t try to make it classified?
’cause, ya know… the people don’t need to know such things. we just need to keep shopping and watching american idol.
always enjoy yer posts, bill from saginaw.
have a good one.
“Did Cheney’s visit have anything to do with al Maliki’s attack on Basra?”
Of course. Cheney/Bush are the rulers in Iraq–Maliki a puppet and Sadr, someone who wants us out of there. Hence the battle. Cheney saw Sadr gaining influence and a strong contender to win upcoming vote in Iraq. Cheney doesn’t want to leave the place. Along with McCain he’d stay for 100 years. Plus, he doesn’t care what people think. He’s the guy who said “so” when told most people want us out of there.
To that I can only say what I said yesterday:
Hamlet-like in Iraq! Should we stay, should we leave??? Oh ghost help me!
Fellow imperialists, Max Boot fans, assorted neo-cons and oil users–look at it this way:
We’re getting sucked dry by the fight in Iraq–3 trillion down the tubes! Our military uses more oil there then Iraq is sending back. We’re just like the old USSR who went broke fighting in Afghanistan. And who is benefiting from our empire’s decline? Why Russia, China, India.
Wise up saps! It’s time to end the Hamlet stay/go paralysis and leave the joint.
As for our prospects for leaving, I do not have much hope:
Foreign policy-wise not much will change with Obama or Hillary. We still have the axis-of-evil who run US foreign policy: Wall Street/Pentagon/Florida Cuban exiles–stick in AIPAC for a quartet-of-evil.
I think the Iraqis themselves will settle this one and boot us out, just like it was the Vietnamese that got us out of Vietnam.
Iraq’s heroic resistance fighters are effectively bankrupting the American economy. Time is on their side.
And now the Demos are talking of moving troops from Iraq to Afghanistan which in the past has been the graveyard of empires.
What a horrible price to pay in human suffering simply to subsidize the
pollluted profits of Big Oil and the military corporate complex !
Just in case anyone missed it — when a government tells a militia to hand in its weapons and behave, and when the militia doesn’t do it, and when the government can’t force them to obey, the government is defeated.
Al-Maliki really screwed up and may lose his job, the Badr Organization is in severe trouble militarily now, and Al-Sadr has become the biggest Shi’ite in Iraq-Nam.
In Bushspeak this is known as “Return on Sucess”. Many thanks for this article that speaks the truth. Do not, however, expect any Republicrat politician or their quislings in the MSM to quote any of it. Hitler once described himself as a sleepwalker - a man who took what appeared to be insane risks and then found out, time after time, that cowardly democracies would back down in the face of such recklessness. During the Vietnam war, Richard Nixon said he wanted to give the impression of being insane so North Vietnam would think we were prepared to drop the H-Bomb on them. And now we have George Wanker Bush - neither a sleepwalker nor insane - just purely and simply - a PUNK. This strutting Little Caesar walking around naked except for his codpiece and carrying a .44 Magnum handgun under each armpit. Dirty Harry. John Wayne in countless bad macho movies. Wanker, Texas Ranger. And no one with any real power or authority utters a peep. The image of the United States of today is Robert DeNiro at the end of “Taxi Driver”, punctured by bullet holes, covered with blood, his index finger to his temple preparing to commit suicide.
So, you gotta wonder how the Media likes being blind-sided this way? Held up as the ultimate liars! Not a pretty sight. At long last, the truth comes out!
If John McCain is elected president, the chances may be good that the military draft will be activated.
To be in Iraq and Afghanistan for years on end may require this. McCain’s general viewpoint on society and young people might also be contributing factors.
Food for thought in the article …
“Military Draft Needed for War With Iran and Syria?”
Truthout.org
20 September 2006
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/64/22754
Still so many have such a problem accepting the obvious truth - what We The Not Insane People view as a “failure,” the neocrazy anti-Americans view as a total success!
Perpetual “war” equals perpetual un-Constitutional “war powers” equals perpetual war profits for the “base.” And, as a bonus, the perpetual fear card to be played whenever a major scandal distraction is necessary or whenever some “representative” dares to ask what the f**k is going on.
Remember - unless one is trying really, really hard, five years of abject and complete “failure” is impossible. As they say, even a blind rat finds the cheese once in a while…
Every set of rules has flaws, including those governing the US political system, and the Bush/Cheney gang has figured out many ways to take full advantage of such flaws.
The next president, particularly if it is Obama, will not be able to afford to keep up the Potemkin village view of Iraq, or of the economy, and the ugly realities will come forth in an overwhelming flood. And, as Rove surely has lectured his flock, with the help of the corporate media the public can be convinced to associate all the ugliness with those in charge when the ugliness becomes apparent, allowing those who caused it to more easily retake control in the future.
And it is difficult to imagine how such a flaw is removed without redesigning the entire system.
Kem,
I am finally starting to appreciate your sense of irony.
You think the Americans are drinking the koolaid?
You should read some of the comments on our Canadian major news networks blogs. When you point out the oil in Iraq, or the gas pipeline through Afghanistan, or the obvious questions about 911, they all start howling about conspiracy theories, or outright deny they even exist. Like in America, the ignorance is incredible. A lot of my comments don’t even get posted, and none of them are offensive.
KEM PATRICK—Not sure depleted uranium shells equate to the fallout from nuclear explosions (which would eventually circle the globe) but I get your point.
The Iraq Freedom Congress (http://tinyurl.com/26yzpd )
is a libertarian, secularist, non-violent, democratic, and
progressive group that opposes Ba’athism, Islamism, and
nationalism—as well as the US invasion/occupation.
The Iraq Freedom Congress has organized a self-defense
Safety Force that patrols neighborhoods in Iraq (population:
5,000) and has reduced sectarian violence there to zero.
However, far from supporting this effort, US forces have
assassinated the head of these Safety Forces
(http://tinyurl.com/25yknr ).
*****
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo/
The u.s. wants continuing unrest, so they can implicate Iran, and therefore have an excuse to go bomb crazy, before Bush leaves office. At this stage, he’s got nothing left to lose.
An attack on Iran will be Bush’s October suprise.
You’re doing a heckuva job, Bushie.
I just emailed the article to everybody on my contacts list,
including Lou Dobbs at CNN. Wonder if super Lou will acknowlege it.
I figure the Bush family can afford to send their son either to McLean’s near
Boston, Butler near Providence, Institute of Living, Hartford, or Silvermine down in the gold coast of Connecticut.
I listen all day to people on the radio debating the fine points of the surge and Iraqi politics, etc., never ever coming to the conclusion that every American should
depart the place by midnight tomorrow night.
They should be institutionalized as well.
This country is NUTS!!!!!!!
“…most U.S. and Iraqi personnel were ordered to take shelter deep underground.” Certainly doesn’t sound like a great success in Iraq to me. Sounds more like abject failure.
That the MSM are promoting such blatant lies is disgusting. It’s time to break up the media empires.
P.S. The big question is: will the rest of the world save America from the Evil Ones? Check out -
www.dangerouscreation.com
Actually ~Bfriesen~ the atomic radiation hazard we have spread all over the mid-east region with DU is equivelant to 45,000 Hiroshima size bombs and the radiation will last far, far longer, billions of years longer. Of course we have detonated just about as much here in America testing the weapons, thirty countries now use DU ammo and bombs.
It just takes longer for the sad result of radiation poisoning from DU to show up in a human, unless they recieve a massive dose. Here’a a two minute link on the subject, __ pretty interesting.
http://www.gulfwarvets.com/du_blowinginthewind.htm
our president and vice president should be tried as war criminals. to think that this government is representing us around the world and spending our money as well as our children’s is so infuriating! the extreme level of continued incompetence is mind boggling. this war is costing us 3-5 trillion! that’s aprox $15000 for every man, woman, and child in america, or $60,000 for a family of four!
and we haven’t even started talking morality here..
the demos aren’t much better. what can we do as individuals? the only thing i know is to speak up. Everyone must speak up. everyone.
terryb April 2nd, 2008 3:12 pm
” You think the Americans are drinking the koolaid ? ”
Thanks for the Canadian information. I was beginning to think Americans were the only civilized people on earth who had collectively lost their minds while suffering from a national psychosis of denial in every form.
I am a bit south of the border in Montana and people are catching on fast as we have a long tradition of being somewhat independent and “purple” as opposed to red or blue. But unfortunately, the local newspapers encourage far too many high school gradates to enlist and die for corporate profits.
And, I have noticed that a lot of people are stocking up on reloading components.
As you may know, for years ammo (.303 British mainly) has been currency in Afghanistan. It is sold and traded by weight. Hard to trick the tribal warrior cultures into thinking that the dollar or America are real.
IMPEACH both BUSH and CHENEY…………NOW
BRING OUR TROOPS HOME……………NOW
VOTE OUT…. every Congressional House Reresentative and Senator who has not IMPEACHED BUSH and CHENEY.
Hi ~JConrad~ China is building an AK-47 plant in South America. What load do those assault rifles use? Wonder what they will sell for? In Africa, a new Chinese AK-47 sells for ten bucks American.
I don’t understand. Pelosi suggests that Bush has done no wrong, China bashing is at a new high, McCain is leading in the polls - am I missing something?
I second what terryb said. This is affecting Americans most dramatically but it is a global concern. I am in Australia and our media relates the same rubbish and is the same as yours. Draconian anti-terror legislation modelled on the Patriot Act has been passed as has happened in most Western nations.
By looking at this nationalistically you are missing the man behind the curtain.
Is Iraq a failure? Depends on how one defines success. Indeed, if control of the oil under Iraqi sands is the goal of the occupation, the Iraq “war” is a success.
Remember when Operation Iraq Liberation (OIL) was the plan?
They simply put a middle east leader on the board of directors of “The Carlyle Group”, and take them into the system. Show them the benefits of being an insider and they have them
in control. The American Press still does not get it. Is there still a free press in the country? Are they all bought out? This is the
“The New World Order” that Bush {punjab} was talking about and Bill Clinton bought into it.
The problem for us is that Obama has yet to raise an issue or show his colors..
SURPRISED????????????????????????????????????
In the mountains they used to have the expression, “I’m tired of these folks pissing in my face and telling me it’s water”!
WELL, The Great Intelligent American Public just ain’t tired of it, because they’ve been programed by the PRESS (in all it’s forms) to think that
“Night is Day, Black is White”.
Thank you George and Dickie.
Hmmm. I’m thinking of re-reading Gibbon, with an eye toward learning which Romans came through the Fall of the Roman Empire in good shape.
John McCain is hoping to succeed George W. Bush as Pharaoh–the King of Denial.
As if success or failure matters to the American public. As long as the US casualties figures are not too large it is a success!!
Two weeks ago Senator Saxby Chambliss claimed “We’re having great success in Iraq.”
The lie continues.
I took his fraudulent statement and used it in my short YouTube video. The video was so effective it was banned by YouTube. It now resides on my web site.
http://nukular-waste.tripod.com/nukular-waste.htm
To see the video I used to replace the banned version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7iliaJDiI
Shove the truth in their faces,
Oscar Lewis
Redrooster: According to some historians, at the official time of the Fall of Rome hardly anyone noticed. It was a slow process, rather like the decay of our own empire that we’re now seeing.
The media in the US has completely sold out. NPR in particular has turned into a house of ass-kissing lackeys of Dick Cheney and KKKarl Rove. That’s why they have shifted from being globally respected to being globally seen as mouthpieces for corporate oppression.
Next time a reporter gets shot look at the media’s treatment of the Iraq war.
The Democrats are complete sell outs. Why haven’t they stopped this war? All that is needed is a simple majority (which they’ve had for almost two years) to stop an appropriation bill. They have refused to impeach. They are a bunch of ass-kissers too. They can’t even nominate a candidate. That’s why they are a laughing stock.
Actually, the damn Demos in Congress are screwed up and spinless. By OUR Constitutin, the LAW of the land, Congress is supposed to impeach one for criminal activity.
A DEMO candidate will be nominated after the voting is over, and it ain’t over yet. Hillary currently trails by one and a half percentage points.
Why should Hillary quit now and who cares if they continue to campaign? That’s what they are supposed to do. Hell, six weeks ago McCain was on the ropes, beat to a frazzle, broke and whipped. ___ He didn’t quit, it didn’t destroy the Republican party. Truman was whipped and he fought on and won the presidency.
It’like the Colts are three points behind in the forth quarter and decide to quit, bull-shit. Don’t believe the TV newscasters, we all know where they’re coming from.
How do you define success and failure?
Bush does not want peace and stability in Iraq. He wants exactly what he has, an excuse to stay their as long as he wants. The oil law will eventually pass, allowing Big Oil to pump what they want at 5 dollars a barrel and sell it for 100 dollars, while paying some rent to Iraqis. We will need to stay in Iraq to protect Big Oil.
The way Bush sees it he has done a heck of a job. It is a huge success. He can hardly contain himself with the singing and tap dancing. La-la-la-la-la!
The Romans had an excuse, information travelled slow. People today have no excuse other than laziness or stupidity, or perhaps denial.
Although this is one damn fine article, there’s no mention of the influence of the Iranians in this. IROTFLMAO
Not only did they deal a fatal blow to the American Oil Mobsters pipedream of bagging the Iraqi `black gold,’ but they outmaneuvered the poisoned Cheney-Bush Cabal, their complicit Media, the DoD (doddering old duds) and P.M. Brown! Kudos to the Iranians Bravo-and done right under the noses of the Yank and Limey intelligence gang RLOL
Kem Patrick,
Here is a little information for you on the source for your post.
“Leuren Moret claims to be an independent U.S. scientist who works on radiation and public health issues. She claims to have been a staff scientist at two nuclear weapons laboratories. 5 years at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory,and two years at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Inquiry under the California Public Records Act at the Berkeley Laboratory was referred to retired UC Berkeley Professor Emeritus Ian Carmichael because Moret was not considered a Laboratory employee during her graduate studies in geology there. These studies were also much less than the claimed 5 years and did not involve radiation or uranium. The Livermore Laboratory stated that Moret was a Senior Scientific Technologist in the Center for Applied Scientific Computing and that her employment from 1989 through 1990 was for less than a year. Neither of these positions rises to the claimed level of Staff Scientist.”
Also your link says the atom bomb was designed at LLNL when in fact it was designed in Los Alomos at a place which subsequently became the Los Alomos National Laboratory. Livemore didn’t even exist at the time.
45,000 Hiroshima bombs? Does that seem right even to you? I mean you have an axe to grind, but does that make sense even to you?
You might want to check your “phacts”. You may have been a great history teacher but as a Health Physicist, you suck.
Today, April 3 the New York Times is printing a huge Backpeddling story about the Basra fight which occured starting march 25 and here you can see what Ambassador Cerocker did and did not do etc. This article is in preparation of what Petraeus will be presenting when he comes to Washington:
I hope that you, Common Dreams, print this NYTimes story of oday because many of us feel that the only thing left for us is to at least be informed- here we see the downside of the US military getting involved in a civil war that has little to do with AlQaida and since we cannot speak the language after 5 years- pretty pathetic planning in itself- then we cannot get involved in civil wars eitehr- we do not know what we are doing! This is an abuse of our military power that Petraeaus says himself cannot solve the essentially political and economic issues.
here it is:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/world/middleeast/03basra.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp
KEM PATRICK : Good morning ! A clear day to day and as Thoreau once said, “The sun is but a morning star.” One of these centuries, America might wake up and see there is an alternative to destructive and counter-productive empire games.
Unfortunately, Washington is presently occupied by MIC and Big Oil special interests that expect to have their imperial wars subsidized. My guess is at the present rate, $10 tax dollars will be wasted in Iraq for every dollar of potential oil profit. Hence our economy is now imploding due to a variety of war-related factors. And subjectively there seems to be a complete loss of moral understanding and respect for international law (war crimes) which can only morph into endless cycles of karmic “blowback”.
AK-47’s are usually chambered for the 7.62X39. The ammo is the cheapest on the market and the guns rarely fail to function unlike the more expensive American M16 in .223 which has been jamming when dirty since the Nam era. It is not unusual to see the Blackwater type $1000 per day sub-humans carrying AK’s rather than the M16.
Despite the fantastic amounts of money wasted on MIC super-weapons, in the end it comes down to controlling the ground with small arms and the will to resist. The Vietnamese defeated us due to their determination to be free of colonialism and the simple inspiring fact that they were fighting to defend their home. Iraq is the same. We have done terrible things to them and we are there to steal their oil and they are ready to resist by any means necessary. Check out the history of Algerian resistance in the face of overwhelming French force and the widespread use of torture.
I would imagine that for every dollar the “insurgency” spends, we are wasting a $million. More than likely we are now funding and arming the insurgency with diverted money and weapons in a futile attempt to buy some kind of “hearts and minds” loyalty…good luck. Iraqis are in it for the long run and have a long cultural history of resistance (Genghis Kahn for example) including running the Brits out of their country in the 20th century.
An interesting read::
The Mongol Invasion of Iraq: Lessons Never Learned, by Amir Butler
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/butler.php?articleid=2533
“History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.”
I read the NYT article.
It’s a CYA piece.
The U.S. wanted a slow build up? Hey you guys, here we come. Lay down your weapons! What a laugh.
Hi ~KENDPOTTER~, there may be some opinions in that link that are debatable, in fact the 45,000 figure I posted is wrong, as the article states it’s more like 450,000.
I however am not a scientist, I only pass on information which is or shod be of importnace to everyone who cares. I don’t have the brains or higher education to argue with scientists, as you aparently do have and always seem to argue or deny with rude remarks to someone like myself, as you are totally in denial of the dangers of DU.
The figures given in that link of the number of Gulf War vets who are now permanently disabled or dead are not arguable by any sensible or honest person. Of course you would not understand that comment.
Here is another link on the subject, written by several highly qualified scientists and doctors, who are highly regarded in the scientific community. It’s a rather lengthy report and tells the story of the dangers of DU and how our government, helped by trolls and jerks like yourself, insure the public is mis-informed on a VERY serious issue.
http://www.uraniumweaponsconference.de/background.htm
BTW, any who do wish to know more about the real and VERY serious dangers of “DU” for ALL of mankind and read that link, the bio’s of two of the Doctor’s, (Bien and parker) are listed at the end of the article. You may wish to read those first and determne if the two doctors are credible sources in your opinion. They most certainly are credible in my humble opinion.
~KENDPOTTER~ is a denyer of depleted uranium, or DU danger. He has proven his ignorance by frequently posting rude remarks and really dumb statements, arguing with the words of qualified scientists, as he did here, saying or implying that DU is a not a serious issue. Many of his posts are nothing but Neo-con type lies and distortions of the true facts.
I will admit, he does at times point out minor errors or argumentative wording and he’s a very bright person and writes quite well. ___ Most trolls do. ___ He often gets on my case, as I post frequently about DU and other enviromental issues. I do attempt to ignore him and don’t start pissing contests with him, as he does with me. We all have opinions of course and we all must consider the sources.
Kem Patrick,
I checked the link you posted. Why is it that none of the people you cite ever have degrees in nuclear physics, chemistry, or health physics? These are the fields of knowledge pertinent to the subject matter.
Let’s examine a field you are knowledgeable in. Suppose someone were to write a dissertaion perporting to say the John Wilkes Boothe had nothing to do with the assasination of Lincoln (sic semper stupidus). Would you pay any attention if the person had no degree in history? If it was someone with an agenda and no specific expertise in the field?
This is exactly what you are doing. You are posting links from poseurs. You admit to not having the scientific background to properly analyze their claims yet you hold to them with a religious zealotry. No one (not even Billy) can post anything to change your mind or give you a second’s worth of pause. How did you come by such unbreakable faith? That is what belief withour basis is. You must be part of the Pat Robertson’s crowd. They are the only group I know of capable of such blind faith.
I am going to a “rubber chicken dinner” tonight at the Clarion to watch a friend and colleague collect the “Health Physicist of the Year Award”. I am not fit to shine this man’s shoes (as far as a research scientist) but I sure as hell know enough to evaluate something as bullshit when I see it.
I don’t know how I got to be a “denyer of depleted uranium, or DU danger”. I am pretty certain it is dangerous. What I don’t like is ridiculous, non-scientific, hysterics. For a well-presented, factual, peer reviewed presentation on the dangers of DU.
http://www.greenaudit.org/new_page_31.htm
Kem, disagreeing with you doesn’t make me a troll. If I rolled over and let BS replace science, then I would be a troll. Have you the slightest idea what the effect of exploding 45,000 Hiroshima (small at 25 kton yield) bombs would have on the world? Read, “On the Beach”. Not really accurate in terms of the spread of the radiation meterogically but certainly accurate in terms of the deadliness of the mixed fission and activation products resulting from the use of thousands of nuclear weapons however small.
If you are going to use such specific facts; back em’.
I didn’t write the report ~KENDPOTTER~. DU radiation is not the same as that from atomic explosions, it is just as deadly in a different manner and over time DU is going to kill everything, down to the bacterial level if we don’t stop using it.
Your last post is a perfect example of your denying and critical bullshit. You criticize the highly qualifed doctor who wrote the final report of a Uranium Weapons Conference, which BTW, was attended by MANY highly respected doctors and scientists. Their names and qualfications can be read by opening a link in the link I posted and a doctor ~Kendpotter’s~ name does not appear there.
Doctor Bien also served as a consultant on a report from the European Committee of “Radiation Risk”, among many other things over a thirty year career in risk managmement.
If you don’t wish to be classifeid as a Neo-con troll Mr. Potter, __ don’t act like one.
There are many scientific papers written by government paid scientists and doctors ~Kendpotter~. There are many other papers and books whose authors state the truth on the issue.
Hi ~NMBiLL~, I’m not sure if you were writing that comment to me or to Kendpotter?
I happen to trust the words of those doctors and scientists who give facts and evidence to support their views that DU is a deadly substance when it is used in weaponry and burns. I also know the government has attempted to discredit many of those scientists with lies and distortions of the truth about the issue. ~Kendpotter~ trusts the government’s opinions. ___ I don’t
I almost always offer supporting links as I am not a scientist or a doctor and only pass on information I trust, as do many, many others who discuss any number of issues here at CD. I don’t appreciate it when someone such as Kendpotter attack me personally for posting my opinions. In the past he has denied DU is harmful for anyone at all and once told me to go F##k myself because we disagreed on the issue.
If any wish to read the links I posted and then read the one Kendpotter posted, they can then decide who they wish to trust about it, the links are there to open. And there are thousands more to read by Googling Depeted Uranium weapons.
kendpotter,
Maybe there is some exaggeration about DU but who knows for sure since the article you site says that the war machine claims it stays in the area of its burning is a lie.
it gets into the cells, has an affinity for phosphate structures in our DNA and did travel to Europe from Iraq blowing in the Winds.
I don’t see the point of you and kem trashing each other because The last paragraph of your link says:
“Despite many pieces of evidence that the uranium aerosols are long lived in the environment and are able to travel considerable distances, this is the first evidence as far as we know, that they are able to travel thousands of miles. The distance traveled from Baghdad to Reading following the wind patterns implicit in the pressure systems at the time is about 2500 miles. Although this transport may be hard to believe at first, the regular desert sand events which occur in the UK should teach us that the planet is not such a large affair, and that with regard to certain long lived atmospheric pollutants, no man is an island. This was a lesson first shown graphically and alarmingly by the atmospheric nuclear tests of the 1960s and the subsequent Strontium-90 in milk, and more recently by the Chernobyl accident. However, like the atmospheric tests, the use of battlefield uranium weapons, especially the new bunker busting bombs which are alleged to have more than 1 ton of uranium in the warhead, are events which are controlled by man: they are not accidents. The results from the AWE filters should teach us that the consequences are not restricted to the areas where they are used. Indeed, on the basis of the results reported here, there would have been a significant exposure to the public in many countries. Uranium is a powerful genotoxic stressor. In view of the many reports of heritable genetic effects in areas where uranium has been used, and in the Gulf veterans, time series analysis of infant mortality and congenital malformation rates in European databases assuming exposures to the foetus or the pre conception parents in mid March 2003 might be worth carrying out. We have applied to ONS in the UK for monthly data but apparently it is not ready yet.”
This sounds much worse long term than Hiroshima and Nagasaki to me.
I don’t know why either ~Jim~. For months ~Kendpotter~ has been denying DU is a hazard for health and now he posts a link that says what I’ve been saying all during the past year.
Just read his blogs to me here on this thread, starting his argument all over again. I think it is ironic he posted that link, but perhaps he didn’t understnad it it was pretty technical.
Yes, DU is far more hazardous than an atomic bomb leftover hazard. For example, it is safe to live in Hiroshima, but it will NEVER be safe to live in Baghdad.
One of the doctors identified in that link is Dr. Busby, one he has consistantly said is wrong, but probably didn’t realize it was actually Dr. Busby he was arguing with and not me. I never know exactly where ~Potter~ is coming from, he is an avid supporter of Nuclear energy an does not like to hear nuclear waste is being used for weapons of war.
Dr. Busby knows whereof he speaks.
Most of the other people you cite make ridiculous claims like the 45,000 Hiroshima bombs. Comparing the DU in Iraq with a exploding bomb is like comparing apples to orangutans. DU diluted and bound up in the soil poses almost no hazard. A slab of DU emits approximately 200 mrem/hour at the surface in alpha and soft beta radiation, most of which is blocked by the skin. If you gave it a couple of thick coats of paint you could use it as a park bench - If you sat on El Capitan (a large granite pluton) in the Yosemites, you would face more exposure. DU in aerosolized form is still not very radioactive (albeit very long-lived at a half life of 4.5 million years) but has a pronounced chemical toxicity.
An exploding atomic weapon on the other hand, places millions of curies of short-lived (half-life measured in day, weeks, and years vice millenia) mixed fission products and activation products into the atmosphere. 45,000 Hiroshima bombs would exterminate life on earth with the exception of cockroaches and Dick Cheney (Darth Vader). Anyone able to spend a few months in a fall out shelter would probably be okay assuming nuclear winter didn’t set in. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are livable today because the half life of the fisson products is by and large short.
What I don’t like is someone making pronouncements and having no knowledge of the subject. If you want to hold forth on scientific issues, you better have an education in science. Kem reads into my posts what he wants to. I tell him the facts as physics knows them (alpha energies, decay rates, etc.) and because he understands none of it and doesn’t want anything conflicting with his preconceived notions, I am a troll, neocon, denyer, etc.
These are the facts.
DU by virtue of definition is less radioactive than natural urnanium since it has had the most radioactive isotopes (233 and 235) stripped out of it. It is fairly similar to asbestos as a hazard. You leave it alone in place and it is benign. You stir it around and get it airborne and it is a hazard. The chemical toxicity of the hazard outweighs the radioactive threat by a significant degree.
These are facts, not “phacts” like the Hiroshima bomb analogy. These are physical properties, that when measured are true every time. Denying them is like saying the earth is flat.
The argument against the use of DU is not improved by hysterics. It is best argued against, using the real and not the imaginary. The real facts surrounding DU are scary enough that you don’t need to make anything up. Doing so simply makes you irrelevant to the conversation because anyone with any kind of science background can tell you are ignorant.
Kem, I notice Billy can’t be bothered to waste any time on you anymore. Did you end up calling him a troll too? Come to think of it, I am done too. If you think an “expert” that doesn’t have a relevant degree, lies on her CV, and thinks the bomb was invented in Livermore is credible, than there is no hope for you.
OK kendpotter but if you are a science Man you should know the difference between a million and a billion years.
The Half life of DU is over 4 billion not that it would matter to our life span but since you are such a stickler on Scientific facts check out http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Half+life+of+DU&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
You are saying DU is safe if it is not stirred up?
What on Earth is not stirred up?
You might try selling well painted park benches of DU to the public and I don’t care if anyone exaggerates the problems of DU… compared to down playing like you are doing they are no problem.
Kem has alerted many to the problem and is concerned so …Leave Kem Alone!