Bush Silent, but Others Speak Out on Tibet Crackdown
WASHINGTON - China’s violent crackdown on protesters in Tibet is having powerful political reverberations in Washington, where the White House is weighing how far to go in condemning the Chinese government, even as it defends President Bush’s decision to attend the Summer Olympics in Beijing.
Mr. Bush has long said the United States and China have “a complex relationship,” and that complexity was on full display this week. While his administration has called for an end to the violence, and his secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, phoned her Chinese counterpart to urge restraint, Mr. Bush himself has remained silent.
In the meantime, the presidential candidates are speaking out, as is the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. On Friday, Ms. Pelosi visited the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, at his headquarters in Dharamsala, India - and poked a finger in the eye of Beijing.
Describing the clashes in the past week between Chinese security forces and Tibetan demonstrators as “a challenge to conscience of the world,” Ms. Pelosi, Democrat of California, said, “If freedom-loving people throughout the world do not speak out against China’s oppression in China and Tibet, we have lost all moral authority to speak on behalf of human rights anywhere in the world.”
If it seemed like a direct challenge to Mr. Bush, he did not take the bait.
“At this point, there is no doubt that the Chinese government knows where President Bush stands,” said Gordon D. Johndroe, a White House spokesman. He said the White House had no comment on Ms. Pelosi’s visit.
The Dalai Lama has lived in exile in India since 1959, when China crushed an uprising in Tibet, his homeland. He has been pressing, without success, to return to China to advocate for greater cultural and religious freedom for his followers. China, though, has branded him a “splittist” and has accused him of masterminding the current wave of protests - a charge Ms. Pelosi dismissed as nonsense on Friday.
It was unclear what Ms. Pelosi’s visit would yield for Tibetans. But for Ms. Pelosi, the timing was propitious. In front of a horde of television news cameras that had decamped all week to cover the Dalai Lama, she and her husband, Paul, descended the stairs of the main temple to huge applause, the 72-year-old Buddhist monk between them, holding their hands.
Nuns and schoolchildren waved American flags. The Dalai Lama ordered his followers to rise and offer Ms. Pelosi a standing ovation. One man held up a homemade placard that read, “Thank you for recognizing nonviolent struggle.”
The visit provoked a tart response from the Chinese ambassador to India, who depicted it as American interference. “We don’t allow anybody to meddle in China’s internal affairs,” the ambassador, Zhang Yan, told reporters in New Delhi, according to The Press Trust of India. “Any attempt to cause trouble to China is doomed to fail.”
Ms. Pelosi is hardly the only American politician taking China to task. On Friday, Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, traveling in France, warned that China’s behavior was “not acceptable” for a world power. Earlier in the week, Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama, the two Democratic presidential contenders, issued strong criticisms of China.
Mr. Bush, too, has made a strong show of solidarity with the Dalai Lama. In October, he met privately with the Tibetan leader at the White House and then attended a ceremony at the Capitol, where the Dalai Lama was awarded the Congressional Gold Medal. It was the first time the two had appeared in public together, and the White House was well aware of the symbolism.
China analysts say the violence in Tibet demands that the president chart a careful course. “I think to the extent that he can work the issue privately, it’s better, frankly,” said Jeffrey A. Bader, an Asia specialist who worked at the National Security Council under President Clinton. “The public statements just make the Chinese dig in their heels all the more, make them more resolute in their repression.”
American presidents have historically found relations with China to be a delicate dance. But none more so than Mr. Bush, especially since September, when he met with China’s president, Hu Jintao, in Sydney, Australia, and accepted Mr. Hu’s invitation to attend the Beijing Olympics.
Mr. Bush has said that he wants to support American athletes and views the Games as a sporting event, but that he will use his attendance to put pressure on China to improve its human rights record. But human rights advocates have linked the Olympics with violence in the Darfur region of Sudan and have accused Mr. Bush of giving his imprimatur to a country that, in their view, is not exerting enough influence as a major buyer of Sudanese oil to stop what the White House has termed a genocide.
On Capitol Hill, two representatives, Dana Rohrabacher, Republican of California, and Neil Abercrombie, Democrat of Hawaii, are leading a push for a boycott of the Beijing Games. China analysts, though, say Mr. Bush has little choice but to attend, even if it means a political backlash at home.
“This is China’s coming out party,” said Michael Green, an Asia expert and former Bush administration official. “If he were to cancel, it would be such a loss of face for China that it would make working with them on issues from North Korea to human rights much more difficult.”
So far, Mr. Bush has stood firm.
“I’m going to the Olympics,” the president said last month, when Steven Spielberg, the filmmaker, announced that he was dropping out as an artistic adviser for the Games. “I view the Olympics as a sporting event. On the other hand, I have a little different platform than Steven Spielberg, so I get to talk to President Hu Jintao.”
If the violence in Tibet grows, however, the pressure could increase for Mr. Bush to take some kind of symbolic stand. The French foreign minister said this week that he would entertain the idea of skipping the Olympics opening ceremony - a symbolic gesture that would be less than a full boycott. Mr. Johndroe said such a step was not under discussion at the White House.
“We’re focused on ending the violence now,” he said, “not an event six months from now.”
Sheryl Gay Stolberg reported from Washington, and Somini Sengupta from Dharamsala, India.
Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company
As a young Chinese (and a Han), I understand America is a great democratic country, but please don’t impose your value system to others. If the Chinese people requested US government to return the land to aboriginal American Indians, what will you answer be? … Oh it is all history – Tibet is also history and lets look forward instead of backward. A united China is good for the interest of all Chinese, including Zang and Han. Who is afraid of a stronger China?
The future, configured from the present is based on the past. Observe conditions today and you will find that the gross lies and mistakes of the past are situated deep within the society, economy and psyche. Peace is not the myth of promethius, it is that of the “united” nation state attempting to jump over its knees.
“but please don’t impose your value system to others. ”
This is nonsense … what other justification can you use for the Chinese occupation of Tibet. The Chinese have actually learned and absorbed the American value system very well … occupy a country by force and claim its yours !! Theyve gone a step further and introduced cultural genocide as well.
I’m a middle aged white American and I would like to see the power returned to the “first” Americans in some ways.
Just because my ancestors murdered,raped, enslaved,stool, and lied there way across the continent doesn’t mean it was the Proper way to merge to earths peoples.
I feel the Tibetan culture and many others should be protected and even rejuvenated.
If we fail to embrace the many cultures of our species we could be setting up a very ugly homogenized future for Homosapiens
As a young Chinese (and a Han), I understand America is a great democratic country, but please don’t impose your value system to others.
**There is a bit of hypocrisy in your comment, because while you reject Western democratic values, you still want Western technology and lifestyle. If you want to preserve a traditional Chinese way of life–why do you want cars and tvs? You shouldnt be surprised some people would be upset when you want to stamp out Tibetan culture. The Dalai lama may be no saint, but he is a far cry from the terrorist your media paints him to be. And while I am not a buddhist, it does contain ethical ideas far superior to what Chinese secularism currently preaches.
If the Chinese people requested US government to return the land to aboriginal American Indians, what will you answer be? …
***Two wrongs dont make a right. You are admitting that there is a comparison between the treatment of Tibetans and American Indians, and yet the attacks on Tibet are happening now–not 100 years ago. Also, Han Chinese claim Taiwan as Chinese territory, and yet Taiwan has an indigenous non Chinese population. The US may be in a glass house, but I think China is in an ice house, it can break and melt.
Oh it is all history – Tibet is also history and lets look forward instead of backward. A united China is good for the interest of all Chinese, including Zang and Han. Who is afraid of a stronger China?
**this sounds like government propaganda. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. The danger of a stronger china is that it has a population of 1.3 billion, it seeks a western style lifestyle while rejecting western style democracy. If one protests a new dam or land grab in China, you may end up in prison or worse. If you want to protest water or air pollution, you may end up in prison.
When the Chinese middle class decide they want shark fins as a decoration for their soup–sharks die off around the world.
I dont think many Chinese care about species going extinct. They dont even care about their own health–as companies are dumping anti-freeze and toxic chemicals into their own food supply.
The pollution in Bejing being so bad they fear athletes will collapse from it.
China also has terrible treatment of women. Its one child policy(understandable given the population there) has led to discrimination against girls far beyond the traditional practices, such as foot binding. Girls being dumped into orphanages or left to starve in the back of houses.
This is terrible.
I think the apathy of some or many chinese towards common sense ethical, environmental and human rights issues scares me the most.
The relevant values of a civilized world are expressed in the Fourth Geneva Convention, which states that it is illegal for a country to seize territory by force, and resettle part of its population there. When someone writes that the fate of the Native Americans justifies the treatment of the Tibetans, they are not looking forward. They are looking downward to the lowest common denominator of human behavior, and saying, “my country should be allowed to get away with whatever anyone else ever did.”
To say that “Tibet is also history” is an expression of an arrogant, colonialist mentality. To say that Tibetans have no cultural identity and should just become part of the “family” is a self-serving lie, being used to justify the eradication of their culture and identity.
China will become stronger by becoming more humane, and not by enslaving its neighbors.
Han chauvinism has run amok for far too long in Tibet (Xinjiang as well) & the chickens have come back to roost. The Communist dynasty’s (for all intensive purposes, the Chinese Communist Party is a dynasty except for the position of Emperor) clumsy and heavy handed response just before their coming out party, the 2008 Beijing Olympics, gives one serious pause to ponder Napoleon’s quote (paraphrasing here) about China, “China, went it awakens, will shake the world. Let them sleep.” They have awoken and they are still groggy.
I disagree that the Dalai Lama, a religious leader, should be made the head of state in Tibet. I thought that the separation of church and state was approved by the USA. I also thought that in the USA that demonstrators were required to get permits and were not permitted to set fire to buildings, etc. If those restrictions apply in USA, why not in Tibet? A question for Nancy Pelosi is what human rights are permitted in Tibet? Are the people allowed to go to churches (or temples, etc.)? Are children allowed to speak and be taught in their native language in schools? (At one time that right was not permitted in Canada in Catholic “Residential” schools which native indians were forced to attend, but that attempt at cultural genocide is now changed.)
Oh by the way I still support the removal of the Speaker of the House for her acts of treason (removing the power to impeach from the people)that continue to allow the Bush regime to destroy our Republic and the U.S.Constitution.
And no doubt will continue into the next regime unless the checks and balances are returned NOW.
http://www.petitiononline.com/everyman/petition.html
Have anyone watched the news that the Tibetan rebels burned 4 innocent Chinese girls to death? What is your suggestion to the Chinese government to take control of the situation?
Have anyone how the bloody history how the Tibetan slave owners mistreated and tortured their slaves before the PLA liberated Tibet? I can understand how the Tibetan aristocrats, including DaLai feel about losing their power over Tibet, but to the oppressed slaves, Mao Zedong is their savior.
Nancy Pelosi, Democrat, California, and speaker of the House of Representatives, said, “If freedom-loving people throughout the world do not speak out against China’s oppression in China and Tibet, we have lost all moral authority to speak on behalf of human rights anywhere in the world.”
So is this what happened to our moral authority to speak out against the invasion and occupation of a country that posed no threat to the United Spates? This invasion, this war, that has killed more than 1,000,000 Iraqis and exiled more than 4,000,000 in-country and to foreign lands, leaving some 2,000,000 widows facing life alone with their children scrounging for bits of slop to feed their orphans. We lost our “moral authority” many lives ago.
This is the same woman who couldn’t find the “right” to impeach a mass killer who began the shock and awe with a murderous rampage on innocents? “Impeachment is off the table” she pronounced and the killing continues into its sixth year.
Nancy, you impitomized sweetness and light and innocence as you and your husband visited the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, at his headquarters in Dharamsala, India. An absolutely stunning outfit. Was it designed especially for this opportunity? How many meals would its cost have afforded to the starving children in Iraq? The ones we are responsible for?
Nancy Pelosi, Democrat, California, and speaker of the House of Representatives, said, “If freedom-loving people throughout the world do not speak out against China’s oppression in China and Tibet, we have lost all moral authority to speak on behalf of human rights anywhere in the world.”
So is this what happened to our moral authority to speak out against the invasion and occupation of a country that posed no threat to the United Spates? This invasion, this war, that has killed more than 1,000,000 Iraqis and exiled more than 4,000,000 in-country and to foreign lands, leaving some 2,000,000 widows facing life alone with their children scrounging for bits of slop to feed their orphans. We lost our “moral authority” many lives ago.
This is the same woman who couldn’t find the “right” to impeach a mass killer who began the shock and awe with a murderous rampage on innocents? “Impeachment is off the table” she pronounced and the killing continues into its sixth year.
Nancy, you reflected such sweetness and light and innocence as you and your husband visited the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, at his headquarters in Dharamsala, India. An absolutely stunning outfit. Was it designed especially for this opportunity? How many meals would its cost have afforded to the starving children in Iraq? The ones we are responsible for?
What the PRC does to Tibet sucks. But ‘His Holiness’ is a scam artist, some of his minion monks came through my little town recently and fleeced it well and fast and moved on. $35,000 cash plus free medical dental food clthing in a week-we are 15,00 people and they never stop, town to town-that’s a lot of money.
Any of that money helping ‘Free Tibet’ I went to the dolly llama’s website and saw Nothing to indicate this.
What China does in Tibet is real-can these other guys go away-to the next little town and 35k in a week, then the next…
Jiminy Cricket! Where DOES all that cash go? Tibet? hhmmm.
What the PRC does to Tibet sucks. But ‘His Holiness’ is a scam artist, some of his minion monks came through my little town recently and fleeced it well and fast and moved on. $35,000 cash plus free medical dental food clthing in a week-we are 15,00 people and they never stop, town to town-that’s a lot of money.
Any of that money helping ‘Free Tibet’ I went to the dolly llama’s website and saw Nothing to indicate this.
What China does in Tibet is real-can these other guys go away-to the next little town and 35k in a week, then the next…
Jiminy Cricket! Where DOES all that cash go? Tibet? hhmmm.
The USA’s foundation is one of genocide against the Native Americans, it is a nation built on the backs of slave labour, a warmongering, terrorist nation that tells it’s incredibly ignorant people that it is doing good, when in fact it is doing evil.
With over 800,000 Iraqis of all ages dead, and over a million crippled in the past 5 years - all as a result of Bush and Cheney’s lies and for them to be strutting around the world with no remorse, protected by thugs in suits, it is incredibly HYPOCRITAL for Americans to point at the errors of another country.
The leadership of the USA has more conceit and arrogance than any other nation on the planet.
They point at the splinter in our neighbor’s eye, but can’t see the log in their own. We should Shut the F up and fix our own problems, before we preach at others.
We need to:
Impeach and imprison Bush and Cheney.
Get our soldiers the hell out of Iraq.
Shut down the pentagon.
Pay Iraq and all the other nations who’ve been screwed fair retribution for our misleaders wicked deeds.
Wage peace instead of war!
Elect Barack Obama.
Have anyone watched the news that 19 hijackers pulled off 911?
We seen it but that doesn’t mean we’re buying it.
Yeah…China pushing in railroads and vehicle highways, modernizing and so on…very bad.
So Dalai Lam visits White House, says no politics involved in the visit…visits Canada Prime Minister, says no politics involved. (I guess he didn’t know that the Prime Minister’s office is a political organization)
Using the olympics to wedge cracks in China in Darfur, Myanmar, and now Tibet…there’s got to be some anti China traction we can get somewhere.
So, in the name of freedom, maybe we can hive off a chunk of China, Tibet, have the Tibetans go back to being a feudal theocracy…stop this modernization nonsense…after they are free, living under the monks(200 000 of them supported by how many people?…ah, feudal arrangements make that possible) we can go stay in the western hotel chains, watch the local peasants dress in funny clothes and dance folk dances for us.
scgold;
You took the words out of my mouth (off my keyboard?). After invading Iraq and using torture if the usa tried to pull the moral leadership of the world argument out of its arse the rest of us would die laughing. The ideals of the usa have been shown to be a joke, not that they were ever anything other than lofty rhetoric. There are a few who remain that think the usa is the city on the hill, that number is shrinking every day…
As far as organized religions go, this may be one of the least violent, which is not saying much.
Headline: The Dalai Lama is in fashion with the California democrat gentry.
But I lose the will to defend religious freedom when religion loses my freedom. That said, the DL has done a lot of good.
BOYCOTT CHINESE PRODUCTS
AND THE BEIJING OLYMPICS !
justinechang;
ni shi ben ben
Some gruesome fact I just found about Dalai:
In the document that still preserved in Tibet muniment room, the document’s title in Chinese is {re bu dian tou mu}.
It is written on {re bu dian tou mu}. ” in order to celebrate Dalailama’s birthday all the monks should patter a certain lection called {fen nu shi wu zhe hui shi fa}, in order to do so, the monks need to collect two human guts, two human head, human blood, and a whole piece of human skin.” blood, and a whole piece of human skin.”
Dalai was the biggest slave owner in Tibet.
whateveryousay March 22nd, 2008 12:36 pm
justinechang;
ni shi ben ben
Bu Ming Bai - Don’t understand.
OF COURSE George Bush has no comment on China’s atrocities against the Tibetans. Did someone think he had any humane feelings or something??!
No more Chinese restaurants for me and my friends, and I definitely will check EVERY product I intend to buy to see if it’s made in China. If so, I won’t buy it.
The Dalai Lama has never been anything but nonviolent. Nonviolence is what he teaches. The Chinese are lying big time about him.
“As a young Chinese (and a Han), I understand America is a great democratic country, but please don’t impose your value system to others.”
This is such an ancient bullshit argument. Democracy is not a ‘cultural’ value that belongs to some cultures and not to others. Democracy is a fundamental human value, every culture can understand it and in every place on earth it will be implemented in its own way.
Just the fact that you are expressing your opinion here on this website; why are you doing that ? Don’t you understand as a good chinese that your opinion does not matter, that others are making decisions for you on your behalf, because they know what’s best for you ?
By the way, your example of America as a great democracy is really a bad one. If you talk about ‘democracy’ or you talk about ‘American-style democracy’ (John Pilger recently coined the term Murdochracy, brilliant !); those are two very different things. I am sure you can find some other countries that really represent the idea of ‘democracy’ much better.
Well, its clear that we would be in a much better position to criticize China for its policies in Tibet, if we hadn’t allowed Bush, Cheney and the rest of the neocon junta to bamboozle us into invading and occupying Iraq. There is a similarity to the Chinese rationalizations for occupying Tibet and ours for being in Iraq. The official reasons given by both China and the US are smokescreens for the real reasons for occupation. In the case of China, the PRC said they were liberating the Tibetans from the evils of feudalism, while their real motives were geostrategic–occupation of the Tibetan Plateau gives them a huge advantage in Asia, and they benefit from the mineral and other resources of Tibet. In the case of the US and Iraq, we said that we were going because of weapons of mass destruction and to free the Iraqis from the Baathist regime when our real reasons were geostrategic and lust to control Iraq’s huge oil reserves. If we had been content to continue our successful containment tactics instead of invading and occupying Iraq, we could now boldly criticize China for its oppression of Tibet.
I just love the liberal campaign, inside of the imperialist countries of Britain and the US, against China. It now has taken on 2 fronts, the issue of encouraging sending European troops into North Africa (they are in Chad already), supposedly to ‘Save Darfur’, and now the campaign to demand independence for Tibet.
You think that these bleeding hearts would have their hands full already, trying to get the US and Britain out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and to stop the US/ European imperialist interventionism in all the other locales, like Somalia and Colombia, as just 2 of the many other examples? But no… these liberals are actually calling for more imperialist intervention by their own governments, rather than campaigning against it!
Shame on you Common Dreams for being a part of such a campaign.
saffiyeh — “I just love the liberal campaign, inside of the imperialist countries of Britain and the US, against China.”
Maybe you should join the liberal campaign instead of bitchin about it and doing nothing. What exactly is your point besides being anti-liberal ? Have you paused to consider that these same liberals railing against the Chines invasion/occupation of Tibet may have been against the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq as well ? Its too easy to point fingers and point out the so called hypocrisy. Liberalism or progressive movements/politics is beyond artificial borders. Just because Im American doesnt mean im a Nazi !!
thank you commondreams for expressing the opinions of people concerned about human rights violations and genocide everywhere, even in the china zone….
US transgressions do not justify genocide…
the indigenous peoples of earth who lived in the most remote locations are fortunate to have a connection to their past, a connection that i as a 8th, 9th, 10th generation european american has lost, a connection that ‘modern’ ‘european’ (including the implementation of marx’s ideas by the PRC) civilized society has lost. i strongly believe that existing indigenous people who still have a connection with the land that nourished them from time immemorial should have the right to self rule. as should the aboriginal people of australia and the indigenous people of all lands.
in the mountains of iraq/iran/turkey , 25 million kurds have similar problems (the largest ethnic group on earth w/out political representation), a clearly defined ethnic group who have little if no power to determine their destiny. the kurds are oppressed by the iraqis (saddam) the iranians and the turks (who recently invaded N iraq hunting down pkd resistance fighters)
of course the north/south american colonists destroyed the indigenous peoples of the americas. but where were the holdouts ? the holdouts still occupy the least valuable land (deserts/mountainous areas), they were the last to be dealt with.
the navajo represent the second largest population of any US tribe. the high desert wasn’t important to US interests until uranium, coal and other resources were discovered beneath the surface, the political powers manipulated tribal councils and neighboring tribes to extract resources. through typical political shenanigans the people of the dene reservations still live at a lower standard of living than other tribes, despite their mineral wealth. of course indigenous AIM activists like ana mae (lakota) were murdered by the US government and leonard still sits in jail.
there is hope in the new world, the people of ecuador recently elected the first indigenous leader of a nation state in the new world (eva morales- an organizer for coca production and indigenous rights activist). 500 years w/out representation. and look….
in central america, the mountains of guatemala (the largest central american country that has over 20 spoken languages by indigenous people, maintain important aspects of their pre colonial culture (including their languages). despite racism, european/north american exploitation and most recently murderous military dictatorships who used death squads, these people exist w/ very limited political representation.
and tibet……
there are bizarre exceptions to the nation state system. tibet should exist, because the people will it. the clearest nation state parallel in my mind is the vatican. europeans have no issue with vatican city having international legitimacy in the UN or in italy. of course the vaticans invented the concept of theocracy. and then we have the monarchies scattered across the globe (the remnants of feudal times), that are tolerated by corporations and governments alike. princes and kings that wield absolute power over their subjects.
jerusalem should be an independent international entity (like the vatican) as should tibet.
tibetan buddhism is a peaceful religion. buddhism in tibet was cemented in the culture of the people, when the muslims invaded india and destroyed the libraries; the indian exiles took their texts with them to the remote mountains and continued practicing. the masses obliged, and all of us are blessed with their ideas and texts. it’s ironic because if the chinese had not invaded tibet it’s unlikely the monks would have wondered far from tibet, depriving the world of the buddha’s teachings.
if you examine tibetan history you’ll discover even when the monks ruled tibet (over 800 years) the tibetans, despite having a unique cultural tradition, were forced to make geo political alliances w/ the others including the mongols and the chinese. whether the monks who ruled tibet continue to rule or provide a transition period to more modern methods (although we don’t impose these standards on saudi arabia, kuwait or jordan), there is no justification for the chinese ruling the tibetans (it is cultural genocide, the chinese are emigrating to tibet and the chinese govt will choose the next dalia lama - it is very sick)
china presumes tibet for many reasons (strategic location for certain) but their cultural legitimacy to rule over the tibetans is parochial, it’s oppressive (100 people died last week), and the chinese government refuses to allow it’s citizens unfettered access to information about what is happening in tibet (journalists stories, photographs, interviews, visual aids like time lines, you know news) but 1 out 4 people on earth (1.5 billion - 5 times the US population, the actual citizens of the country oppressing the indigenous peoples) do not have access to information about tibet. when they google questions, their screens indicate a transmission error - try again.
the next president of the US should demand the US become involved with the ICC (international court), pay our tab at the UN and participate and stop supporting the state of israel, while talking reasonably with china about what could happen that would enable the chinese to release the land they stole from the tibetan people under false pretenses. (as the soviets stole poland, east germany, hungary, etc.. & i am sympathetic to marx….).
…peace….
I guess when the Speaker of the House took impeachment off the table she freed up time so that she could travel and stick her nose in others’ business.
Nice racket there, Nancy!
Kelmer wrote: “***Two wrongs dont make a right. You are admitting that there is a comparison between the treatment of Tibetans and American Indians, and yet the attacks on Tibet are happening now–not 100 years ago.”
Huh? Kelmer the American Genocide is still ongoing. Go to www.indiantrust.com One hundred billion dollars is owed to the Indians for the lease of their lands by the Dept. of Interior. The Congress of the United States attempted to steal 27 million acres of Shoshone land three years ago for 15 cents an acre. It is still in the courts. Not one of the 360 Treaties made with the Indians was honored by the United States and Indians are suffering and dying from the lack of health care called for in the treaties for the exchange of land. The U.S. Government apparently thought that it would be easier to cheat the Indians through Treaties than to fight for the land. The Government attempts to tell us what is Indian. As Indian Nations pre existing the Constitution the Government according to International law has no plenary power over Indians other than that of the point of a gun. The Government intends to put nuclear waste on Indian land against our will and against our treaties. The government wants to make snow out of sewer water and put in on our sacred mountain to make a ski resort. The Government wants to put dirty coal fired power plants on Indian land against our will so the you can use the electricity to post your wrongful thoughts about American Indians on CD. The genocide is ongoing but it has become a quiet genocide because National Public radio and television and public media purposefully do not report it. Justinechang is right. Keep your treaties or give back the land!
hopefully the dali lama will not get his kingdom and his slaves back. the tibet people are much better of now under the rule of china than they ever were under the dali lama. indeed china has done much to help the tibet people overcome their poverty and sevitude under the dali lama. if one knows the history of tibet and china then one will know that the 2 countries are infact 1 country. the dali lama is a nice man but, perhaps, not as spiritually advanced as he seems to be.
Ms. Justine Chang-
First let me say a few facts to pre-empt the flames that might be directed my way. I am highly skilled in more than a few arts of warfare; I am not some skinny, never-seen-a-conflict, arm-chair peacenik. Fortunately for me, I have never had to kill a human (at least this life time). Further, I have (successfully) devoted my life to teaching peace as a process, not the la-de-da “goal.”
Ms. Justine Chang (and others), I have read a bit about PRC’s history, and in fact speak Mandarin (although it’s been a while - so I am very rusty). I very much understand “all under heaven.” No doubt PRC rulers have the same nightmare as I imagining one billion people becoming De Tocquevillian “little kings” as we Americans fancy ourselves. Simply imagine the worst parts of Americana times 4+!!! Hate crimes. Drugs. Corporate corruption destroying the middle class and the environment. In fact some of that nightmare is materializing now resulting from the PRC’s hybrid-capitalism experiments!
I simply cannot judge from my comfortable position within the shadow of the world giant called America such completely complex decision-making. But I can, upon seeing the hardships men and women reign down on each other vow to a different way. The only difference the past makes in this regard is as a reference for what NOT to do. In this respect, Tenzin Gatsyo, the 14th Dalai Lama is man I would gladly welcome into my home if he needed a place to stay…. The moment he proved an unworthy guest, I would ask him to leave. But, I think he too is committed to peace as a process — so I am sure we get along quite well! And all WOULD be PEACEFUL!!! And if my house were big enough, I would take in a few Tibetans — or if you prefer, Chinese of Tibetan ethnicity — of similar disposition too!
Kind Regards,
The Fist!
papercut, have you ever read any books the Dalai Lama has written? If you had, you’d know he’s more than just a “nice man.”
When the Chinese invaded Tibet 50 years ago, the Dalai Lama was quite young. He was about to modernize Tibet, but the Chinese didn’t give him a chance. You’re just spouting Chinese propaganda.
SCGOLD, (12:03 pm) excellent post about the hypocrite Nancy Pelosi. She gets to feel good about herself by visiting the Dalai Lama while supporting the war criminals in the Bush administration and their illegal attack on Iraq, occupation, and killing of over a million Iraqis, and removing the right to impeach the treasonous thug Bush.
Well, I guess I shouldn’t complain. She’s done ONE thing right so far by supporting the Dalai Lama
Has anyone seen the movie “Kundun?” It tells what happened when the Chinese invaded Tibet 50 years ago. It’s an excellent movie by Martin Scorsese.
Nancy Pelosi speaks with forked tongue.
How can she condemn China when she has stood by and taken no action to withdraw American troops fron Iraq.
I have had much contact over the years with some very extraordinary Tibetan meditation masters, who have mastered the inner world and gained liberation from the effects of the suffering we all endure all the time–such pure compassionate loving presence inconceivable until you’re actually in the presence of it. Here is one such example… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcUqhifbD3o. It saddens me greatly what is happening in Tibet now, almost as much as it saddens me to see the many ignorant comments here of those who simply are unable to recognize the continuing loss of a cultural heritage and spiritual tradition so rich and precious as a path out of suffering and into freedom from this conditioned existence. One cannot know how rich and extraordinary it is until one has experienced it.
And here is a being H.E. Garchen Rinpoche, who has endured so much–20 years in a Chinese labor camp, witnessing the deaths of so many of his friends, enduring great deprivation, nearly dying–and yet he emerges from this a completely enlightened being. What an example for us all! To be so utterly and completely dedicated to the benefit of others.
The great master Padmasambhava who founded Buddhism in Tibet in the 8th Century said: “When the iron bird flies and the horses gallop on wheels and the people of Tibet are scattered across the world like ants, then the Dharma will come to the land of the Red Man.” My heart aches with the price Tibetans have paid so that the rest of the world can now so profoundly benefit from the teachings of Vajrayana Buddhism, at a time when the world so profoundly needs it. I for one have tears of gratitude every day. And my heart breaks equally as much for those who suffer as those who know not what they do.
Bush is “silent” because - what’s he gonna do? Demand his bookie - whom he, er, we - owe some $260B (not counting interest) stop killing people?
Or he can apologize again…
“Bush Apologizes To (Chinese President) Hu For Protester”
“THE 11-DAY crisis between the the United States and China ended early today after the Chinese accepted a letter from Bush with two “very sorrys” and freed the crew of the US spy plane.”
“We don’t support an independent Taiwan,” Bush said.
“The Bush administration has urged restraint by China in dealing with protesters in Tibet.”
“China Vows To Crush Tibet Rebels”
“a challenge to the conscience of the world” Ms.Pelosi said, ” if freedom-loving people throughout the world do not speak against China’s oppression in China and Tibet, WE HAVE LOST ALL MORAL AUTHORITY TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF HUMAN RIGHTS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.”
This is said by a CONSCIENTIOUS WOMAN FROM A CONSCIENTIOUS COUNTRY, that has legalised torture and testimony given under torture, kidnappings, imprisonment of people in secret prisons denying any access to lawyers, “outsourced” torture and has the distinction of killing more than two million innocent Iraqis so far and want to stay for more than a hundred years (probably Americans “enjoy” this blood sport)+ more than five million in Congo so far+ more than three million in Afghanistan so far+ scores in Somalia….
The outburst of Hamid Karzai, President of Afghanistan, TESTIFIES HOW CONSCIENTIOUS AMERICANS ARE.
On June 23, in response to the deaths of more than 100 noncombatants in a single week due to the Western artillery or airstrikes in southern Afghanistan, President Karzai unleashed an angry call to U.S. and NATO forces:
“Afghan life is not cheap, and it should not be treated as such.” Aides said Karzai believed that his language, the sharpest to date on the subject, was the only way to get the attention of Western policymakers after repeated appeals had gone unanswered.Separate counts by the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission and the Associated Press indicated that more civilians were killed by Western troops than by militants during the first half of 2007.
Read “Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission-Investigation: Use of Indiscrimanate and Excessive Force Against Civilians by the US Forces”
Founding a country on the innocent blood and slavery itself expresses the moral bankruptcy of the US and Americans. This moral bankruptcy of Americans is continuing even today.
So the only apt answer to Peloci is: “Shut up and look into the mirror.”
Lillulu;
hello, well i have read about the dali lama and i like what i have read. but, the dali lama is no desmond tutu. dali lama is king of tibet and, i think, he want mostly to have his kingdom back along with his attendants and slaves and what ever else goes with his position in tibet.
china has raised the level of health, education, aeneral social well being. perhaps the elite of tibet don’t like this and perhaps the us govt dont like it too. and perhaps the us govt is fomenting problems with agents etc. and anyway ain’t ‘merika got ‘nuf problems at home. the dali lama ain’t no desmond tutu and tutu doesn’t even pretend to use religion as some sort of public tool, i think.
Nice pc. of back round info. on Tibet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VRneGYpaXc
China has a lot of people who want to go to the games, but not enough tickets since under Olympic rules they have to give many to foreigners of competing nations. This is just what they want. No way will the Olympics be boycotted by any country of significance, but many tickets may go unsold and given back to China for their own people. They also knew Tibet would be a trouble spot during the Olympics, so they have an excuse to put it in lockdown mode. Win-win for them.
What do you think would happen if a large protest against the war in DC happened and people got violent. Heh, heh. Bush would crush them like bugs and call them terrorists.
Genocide is being committed in Tibet and the Americas - including on the native Americans in the USA. Iraq can now be included. Certainly over a million dead, including the half million children who died during the West’s sanctions in the nineties. I will boycot the viewing of the Olympics this summer, and would do the same if the USA wwere hosting them. No government is perfect, but these two right now are running wild.
Anybody got any good ideas on how I can attain wealth and power out of the chaos in Chiner? God bless ya.
Jobson wrote: “Anybody got any good ideas on how I can attain wealth and power out of the chaos in Chiner? God bless ya.”
Yes, study their religion, then make it a commodity by performing Chinese ceremony at New Age events for money. It worked with American Indian Sacred beliefs. Nieve people pay big money to attend fake Indian ceremony. I’m sure they will do the same for fake Chinese ceremony. Fake is hot today.
Of course, our President will attend the Olympics. He has more important matters to attend to - like adding to his personal vacation record:
http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20031001.html
At least the speaker of the house attended to the diplomatic duties.
Strategically, it’s fitting that the Bush administration is silent on this topic, and they have all the fillers-in needed to “take care” of doing what people might expect of the Bush administration.
Quote: “In the meantime, the presidential candidates are speaking out, as is the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. On Friday, Ms. Pelosi visited the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, at his headquarters in Dharamsala, India - and poked a finger in the eye of Beijing.”
With RP-or-DP-what’s-the-difference criminals like Nancy Pelosi and her ilk, hey, the Bush administration can sit back and stay out of the front scenes of U.S. involvement in the Tibet-China matter; one getting a lot of imperialist-West “news” coverage, while it totally or quasi-totally and criminally, treasonously, and hellishly disregards the ‘Winter Soldiers’ event, as well as the one the following article is about. For the latter, I’ll just provide a link to a post I made in another page here today and in which the article link and an excerpt are provided.
That stuff is a good ways down in the post, so to jump to where the article is linked, simply do a webpage earch on ‘Kathlyn Stone’.
In my above post, I shouldn’t have said only Nancy Pelosi and her ilk, for I should’ve done as in the article and which is to include the ‘presidential candidates’, Obama, Clinton, etc., as well as Rice, etc. I’m not absolutely sure of this, but guess that Rice and the pres. candidates siding with Tibetans and also NED-etc.-backed, if not very orchestrated too,’Free Tibet’ movement groups may likely be more reason for Bush’s silence, than Nancy Pelosi and her gang of hypocrites, are creditable for Bush’s silence. Nonetheless, her and her gang are contributing, and the ruling elites of the imperialist-West certainly won’t do anything to turn away her contributions to their agendas.
I also consider it criminal acting, instead of only hypocritical and hegemonic, which still are very bad and totally unacceptable, especially when they have significant impact. They are, and literally so, I believe anyway, using this as more cover-up of their criminal complicity in the wholly criminal wars on Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as on Haiti, and so on; all U.S. govt crimes, nationally and internationally. I believe they surely employ this sort of worldwide and national public stage acting to try to make themselves look like Good Samaritans; as if they, and the people they support, ethically (and legally) merit being supported and for dissenters to be persuaded that we are mistaken.
Furthermore, I also believe that they must surely have some significant awareness of being absolutely nothing even remotely referrable to as ‘Good Samaritans’; although Obama may actually believe that he fully is. He’s certainly confused on (besides also the great words of Rev. Jeremiah Wright) what to do about Iraq, as well as Afghanistan (and Haiti doesn’t exist on his political map), so he could therefore be confused about other issues too.
If we consider the article by Scott Ritter that was posted here over the past few days, then we [know] for a fact that many people like these above ones know that they orchestrate, fund, and conduct (some variable combination of these) U.S. crimes against countries and humanity, so also against the USA, its population and Constitution, and international laws; wittingly so, in full deliberation. We didn’t need Scott Ritter’s excellent piece and testimony to realise this reality about many U.S. politicians, but it sure is a convincing set of facts that contribute to the picture I’m drawing of [reality].
Nancy Pelosi, f.e., is much too obviously deliberate in her political conduct for this to be accidental, totally unwitting, on her part. She’s as war criminal as Bush and Cheney are, as far as I’m concerned as a national and world citizen.
Condoleeza Rice, otoh, maybe she’s confused, for it was reported several years ago in some US msm “news” media, maybe the Wa. Post, that she referred to Bush as her ‘husband’; and if she really had him in mind, then yep, obviously a confused person she is (sometimes anyway). Or maybe they have secret inter-personal relations (?).
This is not some terror sci-fi story I’ve read or viewed that I’m talking about, but [reality]; yes, really.
So, anyway, (puppet) Bush is clearly, evidently being made and/or allowed to stay silent on this Tibet topic. There strategically are enough other high-level actors filling up the front scenes on the side of the USA, so (puppet) Bush can be safely kept out of the front scene, or totally out of Tibet-China matters altogether; the ruling elites strategically decide(d). The more he’s kept silent, the strategically better, for it means that he then can’t “slip up”, that is, accidentally expose or contribute to exposing things that must be kept secret for the imperialist-West’s ruling elites. “Better safe, than sorry” is a “game” that they also play; “of course”.
What these politicians are doing fits with the very kind of activities that the NED, CIA (ops), CFR, AEI, USAID, and State Dept, among possibly other US govt and related entities, covertly conduct on behalf of the imperialist-West’s ruling elites and their goal of expanding their empire over planet Earth’s countries and peoples.
I provide plenty on the latter topic in another post made here. In my above post I referred to an article linked in the same post, now I’m referring to the whole post, for the whole is about this above topic; the NED, etc., with emphasis placed on what this NYT article is about juxtaposed to the nearly if not totally complete lack of US msm “news” coverage of the ‘Winter Soldiers’ event, as well as another and important event by VFP.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/22/7822/#comment-235272
That’ll provide the [complete] view I have on this Pelosi, Obama (maybe just confused), Billary, State Dept, … stage acting.
They are NOT at all credible in terms of [real] respectability in this stage acting that they’re putting on. The very least that the best of them is being is unwittingly hypocritical and hegemonic, and complicit with the USA’s extreme, supreme crimes.
Many may not believe the latter or any of my words about this, but all that’s needed in order to be able to SEE clearly is reading enough relevant articles or books from truly respectable sources, combined with real honesty and the ability to competently think and analyse critically. That permits seeing the whole picture, or much more of it than we presently see anyway. The more of it that we clearly enough SEE, the more enabled we are to discern when imperialist-West rulers and their political puppets or instruments or “friends” are LYING to us, or are otherwise delusional, while giving the appearance of wittingly lying.
It is crucical to develop this ability to [discern] lies, fraud, etc. It’s not a luxury; it’s an [essential] aid for acting in terms of real defence and prevention.
Hence, the imperialist-West wants this understanding to be brainwashed out of us. And that’s wherein their WMD known as the US msm “news” media becomes instrumentally and strategically useful; very.
Nancy and The Dalai Lama. It’s a precious picture that rather says it all. I just bet that Nancy will be supporting independence for China’s small Tibetan population of some 6 million out of China’s overall population of 1.3 billion. What’s taking away 1/5 to 1/4 of Chinese territory anything to worry about, Nancy?
And now, all you Dalai Lama loving American worry warts… are you going to be demanding that Turkey grant its Kurdish population an independent Kurdistan? That’s 1/4 of the Turkish population of 70 million. I just hope that Common Dreams at least bothers to give us reports on the latest actions of Turkey’s government yesterday, as it suppressed riots by Kurds in that lovely country? I’ll hold my breath though.
re- “Bush Silent, but Others Speak Out on Tibet Crackdown” by Sheryl Gay Stolberg & Somini Sengupta
The same Jeffrey Bader mentioned in the article works now for the Brookings Institution. He recently stated - We will be looking back at what these pundits and leaders said about Tibet afterall - the obvious, at least to regular folks, when he noted that China itself regards the Olympics as a political opportunity. In other words, China doesn’t want others to do what it’s doing.
Really, The Chinese government - which cares about the world it wants to be one while it turns it’s own people into zombies - just wants what it wants. And that happens to be recognition, not for China, but for it’s powerful egomaniacal leaders who capitalists are eager to do business with.
The idiocy knows no bounds and, What should we think of leaders who have made it their life’s work to imbue millions with it?
Is it just me, Or are China’s leaders stupid in thinking that we are impressed with their hysterical accusation that Tibetans, whose country they have invaded and occupied and whose culture and identity they have been steadily snuffing out, are violating “social stability”? There just isn’t enough darkness in the world, evidently.
Rapists in some places - where the great effort to instill morality seems to be having strange effects - are innocent while their victims must be murdered for the sin of being victims. Grooms in some places burn their new brides to death when the bride’s parents run out of dowry (handouts) for them. Here in North America, as another Common Dreams article tells us, a Canadian farmer is found guilty by Canada’s Supreme(ly idiotic) Court of infringing on Monsanto’s gmo patents when their stinking, freakish seeds blow into Percy Schmeiser’s field where he’s growing organic canola.
Would apologists from China shrug and say “Oh, but that’s your culture”? Probably.
I don’t believe in moral relativism. I think you can take note of a culture and it’s influence and be measured in your comments about people who are from it and balanced in your views of that culture. But I also think that it’s possible to know when differences in culture don’t matter. I don’t buy it, for example, when Moslems in Saudi Arabia say it’s defending honor when they want to whip and imprison a woman who others, just regular citizens, have already ‘punished’ (raped) for her perceived crime (of adultery). That’s just sick and perverted.
And no doubt some of our ‘leaders’ don’t buy such nonsense either, but don’t admit it because they are busy doing capitalism and simply can’t afford to make waves. In fact, The U.S. has taken both stands, at different times, toward China.
I support boycotting the 2008 Beijing Olympics.
Another alleged “human rights” concern to divert our attention from a no-win war on global terrorism and a failed economy, yet to be unvieled.
After Secretary of the Treasury, Henry Paulson, just this past week got an assurance from China that it would’t use its vast Sovereign Funds for political gain, do you think the U.S. is going to rock China’s boat for Tibetans?
This performance by Nancy Pelosi should recieve a “poor” rating.
Some comments:
(1) In 40 to 50 years when over-population, global warming, wars over oil, water and arable land, habitat and species collapse, and disease pandemics have begun killing BILLIONS of human beings, the Dharma of nature–referred to by some as the Tao of the Universe–will begin to reassert itself and these bitter arguments, full of sound and fury, will be first exponentially increased and then swept away. Mother Nature neither saves nor spares: Those living things which cannot adapt will perish. The U.S. and the industrial model it has exported to India and China ARE NOT SUSTAINABLE and, past a rapidly looming point, NOT SURVIVABLE.
(2) The traditional Tibetans and the Native American Indians both have more to teach contemporary Americans and Chinese about living in harmony with nature in a sustainable culture than we have to teach them about war or genocide or anything else because of the coming environmental Dark Age which is the death warrant of the current oil/industrial paradigm and most of homo sapiens.
(3) To Justine Chang and the other person towing the PRC government line on Tibet: You obviously know nothing of the cruelty of the Chinese invasion of Tibet in the 20th century–of the atrocities inflicted on the male and female monks and the people of Tibet. You nowhere mention the mindless destruction of priceless Tibetan temples, monasteries, their libraries and art collections carried out by the Red Army during this physically and culturally genocidal colonization. Perhaps the best use of your life would be to either help restore some of these treasures or provide medical care for the Tibetan people.
(4) The farther the U.S. flees international laws it was a founding signatory to, the more in engages in and tolerates open-ended ongoing mass atrocities like Iraq (which also included the looting and destruction of priceless cultural treasures from the earliest human civilizations), the less it has any moral force to condemn anything.
“In the document that still preserved in Tibet muniment room, the document’s title in Chinese is {re bu dian tou mu}.”
Um…
Why is document in Chinese or have a Chinese title? Shouldn’t it be in Tibetan?
By now, all of us reading on the CommonDreams website should be able to identify propaganda for what it is: American propaganda, Chinese propaganda…
China has closed the border and shut out reporters. So why should we believe what China says about the situation in Tibet? I have, however, seen videos of buildings burning and of police dragging priests down the road.
America only allows ‘embedded’ reporters to follow the US military in Iraq. So why should we believe what America says about the situation in Iraq? Fortunately, we have other sources informing us of the US military actions in Iraq.
Since when has the Chinese government cared about the Tibetans or the US government cared about the Iraqis?
This photo op of Nancy Pelosi with the Dalai Lama is more propaganda–sure wish she’d do her job by impeaching bush!
As for the American Indians, I thought the Lakota succeeded and are now their own country issuing their own drivers licenses.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE 1 GLARING OBSERVATION, TO FOCUS ON THE UTTER NONSENSE THAT ARE FOUND IN MOST OF YOUR POSTS. ALL THE TV COVERAGE SHOW TIBETANS BURNING AND ATTACKING HAN CHINESE AND SOME PICTURES SHOW TIBETANS VICIOUSLY ATTACKING & MOST PROBABLY KILLED THE VICTIM IN THE ATTACK. WHO ARE THE ONES WHO ON TV KILLING HAN CHINESE ? HAVE YOU SEEN THE COVERAGE; EVEN THE BBC ARE SHOWN ‘DOCTORING THEIR TYPES. HOW DO YOU INSTEAD TURN YOUR STORY UPSIDE DOWN ?
Have you seen TV coverage by Al jazeera and China’s CCTV 9; yest CCTV 9 is factual and the BBC is spreading rumours, WHAT A TURN AROUND, with the BBC distorting and spreading properganda. The BBC has no credibility left; all you do is spread rumours and properganda.
The west are threatened by the phenominal growth of the People’s Republic China, and mark my word, the return of Taiwan in whatever form will increase China’s growth by a further 20% and then the economy of China will be so big that it will be the SUPER MAGNET to aggregat all of Asia like a black hole in space. Already there are the Asean plus 3; plus 10 and soon all of South Asia and the Middle East. It will be China that Africa will look to for developmental assisstance not the USA or EU any more. It is this development that the west are afraid of, and all these VENOM THAT YOU LOT ARE SPITTING OUT AT CHINA IS FUTILE. You cannot stop history.
Introspect you westerners and realise that all that unfounded hate and venom is because yyou are stunned by the impact of China’s growth. One of your posts here even has gone to the ridiculous extend to lay claim to western exclusivity to all technology as American and European; you are all so shamelessly ridiculous, it makes me laugh. Why don’t you look around your selves and take note that most of your R & D scientists are Asians mostly Chinese & Indians. Look around you again and see how many Chinese & Asians are studying in your elite institutions of learning ? It used to be Oxford, Cambridge, Havard etc. but today’s TOP UNIVERSITIES IN THE WORLD HAVE ARRIVED UNIVERSITIES LIKE Singapore, Hong Kong, Qinhua, Beijing, Tokyo, Delhi, Foudan; these are more are among the top 50 ranked Universities. Technology does not belong to any one nation. From my perspective Harvard is merely a very expensive University and as scuh how could Havard be any good is it is merely money that qualifies entry, then that will be drawing student from a very small sample of humanity. To get into Beijing you need to be best from a population of 1.3 million people. Entry into beijing is not limited to those with only money !
yap.chongyee:
Of course the Tibetans attacked the Han Chinese. You are invaders in their country. All of your talk about how great
your country is - is imperial arrogance. It’s sad that China, after being exploited by the European imperialists under the pretense of “the white man’s burden,” now uses the same kind of pretext to bully and enslave its weaker neighbor. Get a real education in history, if it’s available at one of those universities you keep ranting about.
yap.chongyee - thank you for proving Napoleon right. Hopefully more of your fellows don’t wake up on the wrong side of the bed like you do.
yap-chongyee,
Are you saying that the ‘phenominal growth of the People’s Republic China’ is dependent on China invading Taiwan? Wars can have a positive effect on the invading country’s GDP. Wars are also excellent ways to distract people from the problems within the invading country. These seem to be some of the reasons America invaded Iraq.
I suppose you believe that the people in Taiwan will welcome China’s ‘liberating’ army with hugs and flowers.
One thing lost on all the Western supporters for declaring Tibet independent of China fail to mention is that the region of Tibet supplies the water for China and much of SE Asia. So in the name of national rights for Tibetans (supported from European countries and the US whose record on China was once to occupy it and even to threaten it also with nuclear holocaust) these people want to help shut off control of their water for 1.3 billion Chinese citizens? Good work, Dudes! The US State Department couldn’t be happier with you.
yap.chongyee March 23rd, 2008 9:16 am
thanks for giving me a chinese perspective. are you in the PRC at the moment? of course not b/c otherwise we (you and i) would not be having this discussion about tibetan sovereignty, i’d advise you ditch the computer or replace the hard drive before you head back to the PRC.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88512169
China Censors Web Coverage of Tibet Protests/ by Laura Sydell
3/18/2008
well if the chinese can’t conduct internet searches about tibet, if international broadcasts are censored what exactly are the chinese people hearing from gov’t sources ?
“Most of the Tibetan living Buddhas and lamas are against secessionism and have opposed and checked the riots in various forms, said a top living Buddha in the northwestern Gansu Province.
“It is only a very few people who were engaged in the sabotage activities. Most living Buddhas and lamas are patriotic,” said Jamyang Losang Jigme Tubdain Qoigyi Nyima, a living Buddha and vice-president of the Tibetan Chapter of the Buddhist Association of China.
Stability, unity, development and progress are the common wishes and basic interests of all Tibetan people, including those from the religious sector, he said, noting that the beating, smashing, looting and arson in the riots brought great harm to both Tibetan people and Tibetan Buddhism.
“The violence has disturbed normal order in lamaseries. The violence has been proven as having been masterminded by the Dalai clique. Ethnicity and religion were only deceitful camouflage. Their real motive was to disturb the stability in the Tibetan areas and undermine the order in lamaseries,” said Jamyang.
The turmoil in Tibet last Friday was repeated in the counties of Xiahe, Maqu, Luqu and Jone and Hezuo City in the Gannan Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture, where rioters shouting slogans of “Tibet Independence”, carrying rocks and self-made petrol bombs or waving flags of “Tibetan-government-in-exile” stormed government offices, police stations, hospitals, schools, banks, shops and markets, among others.
Dewacang Jayangtudain Gyaincog, a living Buddha at the famed Labrang Lamasery in the Gannan Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture, called on “Buddhism followers to draw a clear line with the criminals, not to be deceived or spread rumors, and not participate in the riots of the secessionists,” he said.
(Xinhua News Agency, March 23, 2008)”
no wonder yap. chongyee i’m sorry the chinese can’t find outside facts about tibet, and instead they get propoganda (sounds like america, at least i could read the guardian or agence france or listen to the voice of russia’s critique), i have great respect for china and the chinese, 1 of my 5 most favorite books i’ve read in the last 10 years, Gao Xingjian’s Soul Mountain. an amazing story.
why not invade mongolia ? (19th largest country, 138th in population) lots of land for the chinese government, who’ve now abandoned one child only policy.
china has a history of expansionism and cultural genocide in the 20th century, from a chinese source….
http://www.china.org.cn/english/China/217210.htm
“Originally the southern part of Mongolia, the area known as Inner Mongolia was settled by powerful nomadic Mongolian tribes centuries ago. Later, in the sixteenth century, the Manchu Empire annexed it from the northern Mongolians after many bloody battles. They took possession and renamed the area Inner Mongolia.
After the 1911 Revolution many Chinese settlers entered the sparsely populated region, forcing the nomadic Mongol tribes into the steppe and desert. Inner Mongolia now became an integral part of the Chinese Republic. In 1937 the Sino-Japanese War broke out, and the Japanese invaded Inner Mongolia. They created the Japanese-controlled state of Mengkiang or Mengjiang, with its capital at Guihua. Again in 1945 the Chinese Communists restored the land to China.
Chairman Mao proclaimed the Inner Mongolia the first autonomous region of China in 1947. Shortly afterwards, in 1954, Hohhot became the regional capital.”
notice the dates, late 40’s- 1950’s. the same time china was occupying and annexing tibet - the pride of the revolution spilling over the borders occupying unwilling subjects; china was occupying inner mongolia. The US clearly used these tactics as americans also destroyed and assimilated all people in north america who stood before them.
tibet is a the worlds highest plateau, surrounded by mountains. it’s one of the most physically inhospitable places on the planet. if the chinese want the mineral resources or strategic capabilities of being in tibet, they need to respect the culturally integrity of the people who live their. either an autonomous zone or soveriegnty.
map of inner mongolia highlighted,
http://student.britannica.com/comptons/art-54872/Inner-Mongolia?&articleTypeId=31
if you use your imagination looking at this map and highlight tibet red in your mind you’ll see that a significant amount of her territory was annexed in 20th century..
we need a world government that addresses peoples desire to have cultural autonomy and self rule, while giving them a voice in the global community. liberate puerto rico, hawaii, guam, inner mongolia, kurdistan and yes tibet….
So are some China bashers saying that the crackdown on the rioting and burning is Genocide?
Is the occupation and destruction of Iraq and our support for Israel’s destruction of Palestine genocide?
Was the crackdown on the rioting in Detroit, LA, and Kent State, and Chicago genocide?
Yeah, the best way to get peace is to accuse every clash that can be negotiated as genocide.
No body has answered my Question yet …If the USA had five times the population it now has could we do any better than China? This question needs to be thought of seriously if you want to work out problems peacefully.
Many so called progressives here think Bush is gonna start a war with Iran because of his rhetoric which is Bull too but some of you folks talk like you are ready for a war with China using the same language and accusations.
No American should accuse China with such language before we get our own moral authority back…. Impeach Pelosi first and then lets talk about moral authority.
Pelosi is not funny just another typical American Hypocrite.
Our first post by justinechang made an excellent point. a temporary Chinese point of view and some of you sound like Idiots!
Off the subject here but I knew there was somethin I didn’t trust about Hitlery.
China is goin to find out now http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7007109937779036019
china bashers ?
hey jim, it doesn’t matter where human rights violations occur. you’ll discover that many posting here (obviously not yourself) work on numerous human rights campaigns and support institutions like human rights watch and amnesty international, both of whom have been critical of the US for human rights violations. so why do you want to trivialize chinese human rights?
about terms… genocide.. i should be clear i’m talking about cultural genocide, whoever once a culture is assimilated it essentially means the same idea (a group of people who cease to exist on earth)
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Cultural+genocide
“Cultural genocide is a political and rhetorical term used to describe the deliberate destruction of the cultural heritage of a people or nation for political, military, religious, ideological, ethnical, or racial reasons.
Relevance to International Law
As early as 1933, Raphael Lemkin proposed a cultural component to genocide, which he called “vandalism”.[1] However, the drafters of the 1948 Genocide Convention dropped that concept from their consideration.[2] The legal definition of genocide was confined to acts of physical or biological destruction with intent to destroy a racial, religious, ethnic or national group as such.[3]
Article 7 of the United Nations Draft Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (26 August 1994) [4] uses the phrase “cultural genocide” but does not define what it means. The complete article reads as follows:
Indigenous peoples have the collective and individual right not to be subjected to ethnocide and cultural genocide, including prevention of and redress for:
:(a) Any action which has the aim or effect of depriving them of their integrity as distinct peoples, or of their cultural values or ethnic identities;
:(b) Any action which has the aim or effect of dispossessing them of their lands, territories or resources;
:(c) Any form of population transfer which has the aim or effect of violating or undermining any of their rights;
:(d) Any form of assimilation or integration by other cultures or ways of life imposed on them by legislative, administrative or other measures;
:(e) Any form of propaganda directed against them.”
also if the chinese legitimately can claim the moral high ground on this topic, why will they not allow their own citizens unfettered access to information via the internet and international broadcasts? is that OK w/ you jim, you and i can read and discuss these events, the chinese people cannot? is that china bashing? pointing out there’s serious censorship occurring? sir, why are you an apologist for china’s behavior? do you conduct business there?
justinechang did not write the post in the PRC…
…peace…
OK you say cultural genocide. Fine.
All the UN articles you list above we are violating here and everywhere and still trying to keep the new world order Imperialism alive but that is destroying the USA.
Everybody knows China has censorship and human rights violations and so do we… however, my point is until we restore our own constitutional rights, Why would China or the world take your preaching seriously?
Since this is Easter, the greatest revolutionary in History, Jesus, Said take the mote out of you own eye first.
Happy Easter anyway!
Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ
Jim Glover - I agree with you. There are lots of bad things happening in the world, but we are in no position to criticize.
Why is Nancy “Impeachment is off the table” Pelosi over there when she is neglecting human rights violations in Iraq, Guantanamo and here? How many people are in prison in Tibet compared with here?
But I believe the advice of Jesus is to take the log out of your own eye before you take the mote out of others, no?
Jim Glover March 23rd, 2008 3:19 pm
“Our first post by justinechang made an excellent point. a temporary Chinese point of view and some of you sound like Idiots!”
What was the point? She managed to avoid making a ridiculous typo like you did, but she was just parroting Chinese government propaganda.
Jim Glover March 23rd, 2008 4:50 pm
“Why would China or the world take your preaching seriously?”
Because we are not the US government, and do not support its actions in the Middle East. The core of your argument is to “attack the speaker” and use name-calling rather than discussing the validity of what we are saying. There are plenty of stories on this site where you can blog away to your heart’s content about US Imperialism, and the majority of the people you are arguing with would probably agree with you. Are you here looking for arguments to amuse yourself?
These pseudo-liberal crackers calling China genocidal and imperialist really take the cake. Once again we can see a hysteria in promotion of ‘humanitarian’ interventionism by the real imperialist countries of Western Europe and the US, and it is always liberal intellectual schmucks that take the lead in dishing out the propaganda.
And they always say it makes no difference about who they are, where the propaganda comes from, and who their allies are (usually ex- and current US government hacks with blood dripping from their own hands). They say that they are merely concerned with human rights everywhere. What a bunch of baloney it all is!
Timor, Kosovo, Darfur, and now Tibet. Always to stop some supposed genocide, and always a campaign that parallels the rhetoric coming from the governments that really are imperialist ones (the US, Germany, France, Australia, Britain, etc.) These imperialists are always posing themselves as grand Saviour’s, and they always have a liberal cheerleading crowd of ‘humanists’ on board, ratcheting up the propaganda for their desired interventions.
China, Sudan, Yugoslavia, Iraq under Saddam Hussein… all have (or had) human rights problems that can (and could) be exploited by liberals working to give the US and British governments fuel for their own slimy genocides in the making. You guys shout loudest against your own sorry ass governments’ chosen enemies, and not against your own governments, who themselves (with your neighbors backing)spread murder and torture throughout the entire universe. You are shameless.
You want to boycott the Olympics now? Why don’t you lead boycotts of the US military industrial complex instead? Boycott D.C. why don’t you? Instead, you promote the US Right Wing’s campaign to make China the real official enemy to go to war with in the future. All in the name of supporting national rights for Tibetans, all in the name of pushing off Buddhism as supposedly being non-violence. What BS. You are merely campaigning against China, and doing it along with the Right Wing of your own countries.
What lies ahead? Wait for the pseudo-liberal ‘humanist’ campaign to latch onto ‘defending’ Chechens, and pushing the idea that Russia is the new Great Satan. Still waiting for the State House green light on that one though, but it may very well happen quite soon.
The US government and its military industrial complex wants war without end, and the liberal humanist types are ready to urge that own, all in the name of humanitarian interventionism which they are sadistic fetishists of. They are into stopping ‘genocides’, and it is all as phony as the crap about bringing democracy to Arabs was, that the Far Right Wing once chortled on about.
Good point beegee - A person can and should evaluate any moral or political issue in the world including the governments of China, Tibet, Iran, Congo, Darfur, India, Peru, Iraq, Haiti, Mexico etc. and US policies toward them. However…
It is infuriating BS that Nancy Pelosi is continually nonchalant about awful situations which she is in a unique poweful position to fight. She will not confront warlords Bush and Cheney in her own backyard.
Then she goes off thousands of miles to associate herself with the cause of a holy man she probably doesn’t even understand. It is interesting that she chooses this particular battle. Does she think that sitting next to the Dalai Lama will give her a moral glow in her campaign against Cindy Sheehan or cred with California’s Buddhists?
Such a hypocrite.
metal wrote on March 23rd, 2008 8:24 am:
QUOTE:
Some comments:
(1) In 40 to 50 years when over-population, global warming, wars over oil, water and arable land, habitat and species collapse, and disease pandemics have begun killing BILLIONS of human beings, the Dharma of nature–referred to by some as the Tao of the Universe–will begin to reassert itself and these bitter arguments, full of sound and fury, will be first exponentially increased and then swept away. Mother Nature neither saves nor spares: Those living things which cannot adapt will perish. The U.S. and the industrial model it has exported to India and China ARE NOT SUSTAINABLE and, past a rapidly looming point, NOT SURVIVABLE.
(2) The traditional Tibetans and the Native American Indians both have more to teach contemporary Americans and Chinese about living in harmony with nature in a sustainable culture than we have to teach them about war or genocide or anything else because of the coming environmental Dark Age which is the death warrant of the current oil/industrial paradigm and most of homo sapiens.
(3) To Justine Chang and the other person towing the PRC government line on Tibet: You obviously know nothing of the cruelty of the Chinese invasion of Tibet in the 20th century–of the atrocities inflicted on the male and female monks and the people of Tibet. You nowhere mention the mindless destruction of priceless Tibetan temples, monasteries, their libraries and art collections carried out by the Red Army during this physically and culturally genocidal colonization. Perhaps the best use of your life would be to either help restore some of these treasures or provide medical care for the Tibetan people.
(4) The farther the U.S. flees international laws it was a founding signatory to, the more in engages in and tolerates open-ended ongoing mass atrocities like Iraq (which also included the looting and destruction of priceless cultural treasures from the earliest human civilizations), the less it has any moral force to condemn anything. END QUOTE.
BRAVO!! Or BRAVA!! as the case may be.
This is it, in a nutshell.
saffiyah said: “it is always liberal intellectual schmucks that take the lead in dishing out the propaganda.”
As a liberal, I would like to correct this reactionary statement.
You will almost exclusively find conservative propaganda in all 6 television monopolies plus every major newspaper, mag, and 600 Clear Channel radio stations, in short, in most everything you read, watch and hear.
For progressives that hesitate to call themselves liberals as if it was a dirty word, to take up conservative’s long standing liberal bashing propaganda is to shoot ourselves in the foot.
rash limbaugh, oreally?,
hannity, glen beck, neil bortz,
michael savage (insane),
carlton tucker, charlie rose,
john zionist rathburn,
not counting all the infotainment
newscasting hacks,such as
wolf shitzer, anderson cooper
and cutie couric as if
anyone here watches that comedy…
but all of these prostitutes
have major airtime
and syndicated shows…
and all say only what
their corporate masters
tell them to say and we hear
only what we are supposed to hear…
is this the flaming liberal media?
caucasians please!!!!
rupert murdoch owns wall street journal
rev. sun yung moonie owns Washington Post
NYT allowed judith miller
and others to set us up for war
clear channel controls the
content of 1600 or more
radio stations
fcc continues to allow more
and more media consolidation
some liberal media
you got amy goodman who is so
“progressive” she runs
negative articles on obama
regularly as well gossip
misinformation and speculation
there is no candidate
for these folks
jesus or ghandi
would be way too flawed….
its so safe to be that rightous
Somehow the people
keep voting for Obama
anybody with a wit of sense left
would know he is our best chance
to get our govt back
he is not taking money from lobbyists
he has not been in dc
long enough to be corrupted
He can form sentences
He is not a crook
He is not mentally ill
whats not to like?
ok he is ET, look closely
but it is time we phoned home
only mccain and his wife
think mccain is running for
prez. whoever they put in
as vp will be prez in 6 months
mc cain is not well
do the math
how many more people
cant you fool
anymore of the time?
when a pickpocket meets a saint
all he sees is his pockets
there are people who simply
do not understand either
compassion, morality or
common sense,
all of which Obama has.
they dont see it
cuz they aint got it…
Nancy Pelosi is the kind of soporific, rich, self-satisfied deceptive “liberal” that infuriates saffiyah (and me too). ezeflyer, I agree that some liberals with principle exist. When I speak of liberals, I am not talking about the free-thinking Iowan or the population of Vermont.
What often passes as liberal in the US would at best be called center-right in Europe: domestically sycophantic support of the rich; internationally lukewarm criticism of our militarism and imperialism when it is far too late to stop anything; suppression of facts and permitting criminality of the right; acceptance and justification of pre-twelfth century levels of human rights.
The New York Times is the spokesperson of the US liberal. It devotes far more paper to pushing super-expensive luxury goods than anything else. It freezes out most news of the anti-war movement. They carefully pick and choose news. If you have other sources of information or participate in events they cover (or refuse to cover), you get more and more disgusted.
Why are Nancy Pelosi and the NY Times crying crocodile tears about Tibet, but not a word about Winter Soldier?
“The New York Times is the spokesperson of the US liberal. ”
I agree and thats reason enough to not call yourself liberal, however we cant boil everything down to labels as we always do and then pigeonhole our politics and morph into a reactionary zombies like … saffiyeh not knowing right from wrong !
If we had a strong representative international body like the UN ( the UN ofcourse is useless and completely compromised by us Americans ), but if we did have a similar body of nations willing to intervene in ALL situations of gross human rights violations either militarily or economically and bring pressure on the offenders, then intervention is worth it.
Clearly we Americans and our fuckbuddies the British have lost all moral authority in the current context of the world but im sure the remaining 200 odd countries in the world dont need our brilliant leadership !!
To all those who counter any argument for boycotting the Olympics due to China’s treatment of Tibetans with fallacious reasoning such as ad hominem or personal attacks on Americans or the US governments invasion of Iraq, please STOP!
First, you assume everyone is American.
Second, you assume those who may be Americans support what their government is doing in Iraq.
Third, the issue of Tibet has nothing to do with Iraq.
Fourth, just because the Chinese government and its supporters of its Tibet policy say that Tibet is an internal issue does not make it so!
Fifth, it is a right of all humans anywhere to speak out against injustice and to protest nonviolently against it.
By telling everyone they have no right to protest what China does in Tibet it sounds as though you think Chinese law applies to the rest of the world. Well IT DOES NOT!
“No more Chinese restaurants for me and my friends”
I can’t believe this kind of racist drivel is coming from CD readers. What does Chinese Americans have to do with PRC policies. This is the kind of racist reasoning that led to the incarceration of Japanese Americans during WWII. Or view every Chinese American as a potential spy for PRC. Just disgusting to the extreme.
If we did not depend upon China to make just about every god damn thing we used to manufacture here in the US ourselves and buy the bulk of our debt, Mr. Bush would be over there in a heart beat defending the Tibetans, because it’s damn good politics to be aligned with the Dalai Lama. In fact, the Dalai Lama has a far more advanced understanding of international diplomacy than just about anyone working in this current government. You will not see the US speak out against China, because the US lost it’s influence around the world politically, as a result of its obvious bias toward giving a shit about countries that can make us rich, or at least seem rich even when we are really in massive debt.
China lives a similar duality and will suffer similar circumstances eventually. They preach Socialist values on many levels but practice crude, opportunistic capitalism just like we do. We condemn every Communism like the plague, but have no problem giving our jobs and money to China. China condemns individuality and competition among people, but depends upon it in its market place.
China and America are both hypocritical, misguided nations politically and socially. The question is when one or the other is going to wake up and start doing things differently, really leading. China should leave Tibet alone and the United States should not intervene, unless we can do it in a way that does not involve our military or military-like rhetoric. We should stop doing business over there one company at a time while we re-build our manufacturing sector and build a new sustainable economy that China cannot use to their own benefit at the expense of better wages and benefits for US workers.
martingale said “No more Chinese restaurants for me and my friends”
That’s really stupid idea, hehe… and now you are imposing your wish on your friends. I wonder if there are still people in the US refuse Japanese food because the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in WWII…
Just found that I have criticized wrong person and “martingale” is actually a comrade on our side. Sorry ya, martingale
Everybody in the World has the right to condemn human rights violations wherever they occur.
But to be more effective in our criticism we should realize that everything is connected.
The USA tries to impose its hypocritical and failing system on the world.
The Dalai Lama and China well work out their problems better without more USA imposition.
To be more effective in the fight for human rights, we need remember the common sense of Jesus and get the log out of our own eyes before we complain about the mote in China’s.
I rest my case.
I almost lied,
here is someone else’s Case you all might be interested in.
———–
“Global Research Editor’s note
This incisive article by Michael Backman outlines the relationship of the Dalai Lama and his organization to US intelligence.
The Dalai Lama has been on the CIA payroll since the late 1950s. He is an instrument of US intelligence.
An understanding of this longstanding relationship to the CIA is essential, particularly in the light of recent events.
In all likelihood US intelligence was behind the protest movement, organized to occur a few months prior to the Beijing Olympic games.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8426
The American corporatist/fascist Oligarchy (Big Oil, Big Weapons, Big Money, Big Pharma-chem, Big Media) incestuously commune with the CIA. None of them have any interest whatsoever in disrupting business-as-usual with China by enraging its rulers with condemnations of China’s occupation of Tibet. There are too many American manufacturing plants in China. The U.S. is too deeply in China’s debt. It would draw too many unwanted pre-election comparisons between China’s ruthless occupation of Tibet and America’s ruthless occupation of Iraq. Bush’s reactions have all been “back-channel” mumbling. Cheney is busying himself fishing off the royal yacht of Oman and masturbating about Iran. To the Estab. this whole Tibet uprising thing is an infotainment pimple on Condileeza Rice’s shoe shopping list.
The terms “socialist,” “liberal,” and “liberal progressive” mean different things to different generations. Here in 2008 the original meanings of those terms and related terminology like “populism” have been completely bastardized and often deliberately stripped of their original meaning by political operatives and media hacks (overwhelmingly of the Republican stripe but often by Democrat-voting media dupes who parrot the newest lexicon to sound trendy).
Gloating and screeching over Chinese economic growth vs. U.S. economic decline is a mutual self-indulgent primate fecal-hurling contest beside the global environmental FACT: Pointless and increasingly scary the more decades this type of geo-capitalist “Great Game” point scoring drags on–ignoring what it is already doing to the human species and the planet.
How many coal-fired plants is China building per week now? How many decades since the U.S. government required, let alone enforced, stricter vehicle fuel emission standards? How many long-term oil development leases can be “developed” without destroying the human survivability of the atmosphere? The subject of hard science seems to be lost in political references to Sino-U.S. relations but scientific laws based on natural physical laws will drive, trump or crush human populations, other species, their habitats and EVEN capitalism every time.
Jim Glover March 24th, 2008 2:40 pm:
“The Dalai Lama has been on the CIA payroll”
If the Dalai Lama were on the CIA payroll, the Chinese occupation of Tibet would be no less illegal. It is a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention to seize territory by force and resettle part of your population there. The fact that Saddam Hussein WAS a former CIA asset did not make the US invasion of Iraq any more or any less illegal either.
The underlying assumption of conspiracy theories like the Dalai Lama/CIA connection is the US government as the cause of anything that inexplicably goes wrong in the world, i.e., US omnipotence, or near omnipotence. The decline of American power relative to the world’s emerging economies in recent decades is no secret, and the ability of growing powers like China to make really bad things happen
has been well known to the Tibetan people for over 50 years. It’s understandable that they would use the Olympics as an opportunity to publicize their plight.
The ad hominem attacks and conspiracy theories are just smoke which obscure the illegal occupation of Tibet, if you take them seriously.
I don’t.