Venezuela Threatens to Cut US Oil
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has threatened to cut off oil supplies to the US unless it halts what he calls its “economic war” against his country.
His warning came days after US oil giant Exxon Mobil won orders in US, UK and Dutch courts to freeze billions of dollars of Venezuelan oil assets.
Exxon wants more compensation from the Chavez government after it took control of Exxon oil projects last year.
The US is the biggest market for Venezuela’s heavy crude oil exports.
President Chavez has threatened several times before to stop sending Venezuelan oil to the US but so far not done so.
Nevertheless, his comments during his weekly televised address, took sharp aim at Exxon Mobil and, by extension, the Bush administration.
He described Exxon’s management as imperialist bandits who form part of a US government-backed campaign to destabilise Venezuela.
“If you end up freezing [Venezuelan] assets and it harms us, we’re going to harm you,” Mr Chavez said.
“Do you know how? We aren’t going to send oil to the US. Take note, Mr Bush, Mr Danger.”
Long dispute
At the heart of the dispute is last year’s decision to take over oil projects in the Orinoco Belt, a move Mr Chavez has argued will bring billions of dollars back to the Venezuelan people.
Exxon Mobil refused to sell a majority stake to the Venezuelan government.
It has taken its case for compensation to the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes, a process that could take years.
It has not indicated how much compensation it wants for the 41.7% stake in the Orinoco Belt oil field - worth an estimated $750m (£370m).
Last week, the company won temporary court orders in the UK, the Netherlands and the Caribbean freezing Venezuelan assets worth up to $12bn (£6bn).
Another order in a New York court froze up to $315m of funds of the state-run Venezuelan oil company, PDVSA.
Further hearings are scheduled later this month in New York and London.
It will be a tough fight, says the BBC’s James Ingham in Caracas.
Mr Chavez is a strong leader who rails against what he calls the evils of capitalism while Exxon is renowned as a tough corporate player.
Cutting off oil deliveries to the US would be damaging to Caracas as well as Washington.
The US is not only Venezuela’s biggest market but is also home to refineries that specialise in the heavy sour crude oil Venezuela exports.
The threat, then, may be too risky for Mr Chavez to carry out, our correspondent says.
© 2008 BBC News
This is the guy that is going to convince most world players to convert from Petrodollars to Petroeuros, triggering the collapse of the US economy as we know it. I say, “good.” We have a rapacious economy that is fundamentally unsustainable. If we are not going to take steps to transition ourselves, bravo to anyone who helps us along.
IMHO, freezing oil sales to the US would not hurt Caracas as much as Washington; I am sure there are other buyers for Venezuelen oil and Chavez has indicated a willingness to sell oil for considerably less than the $91/barrel that we now pay.
Chavez, is no angel, but compared to Exxon oil he is a choir boy.
If he sells below market $ he will incure the rath of the Saudis - He is in power because the right wing last guy tried to cheat on OPEC - they will drop the $ till the bankrupt him. Half the Gas pumps in the US are Chevron and almost all are small business people. Lots can go wrong here.
Chavez should make an offer for the Exxon stake. As far as cutting off oil exports to the US because of a beef with an American company, I think he would be shooting himself in the foot. The U.S. buys 65% of his countries high sulfer crude. The U.S. also supplies over 1/3 of the food consumed in Venezuela as well as the great majority of consumer goods (Cars, refrigerators, electronics, ect). As much as he might rail against the U.S., he knows that his country depends on 4/5 of its revenues from Oil sales, and must import food to feed his citizens.
Hopefully it can be resolved without all the theatrics on both sides.
Maine-ah–I suggest you do some more research before posting on this topic again. The Saudis already sell below the market to preferred customers, which is just what they did for W. Chavez is already selling lots of oil and products at below market to PetroCaribe members.
bligh2–Chavea HAS made an ofer to EOM. In fact, only 2 IOCs have NOT accepted his offer–Occidental and EOM. The US does NOT supply consumer goods to ANYONE–that capacity is ALL offshored.
That thundering sound you hear in the background is US economy crashing because of our dependence on oil, Venezuelan or otherwise.
Its not our oil. Its the people of Venezuela. Good for Chavez. Exxon is just evil.
Don’t just threaten, Hugo, DO IT! China will buy it up with great pleasure. But don’t expect Bush not to retaliate. He may not have the troops but he’s got lotsa air and sea power to let loose on Venezuela.
karlof1- “The US does NOT supply consumer goods to ANYONE–that capacity is ALL offshored.”
ALL of it? I have read previously that Venezeula imports American cars (made in America, not American cars made offshore); in fact they were a big purchase item in the last months as the bolivar inflated rapiddly. And I have seen elsewhere that 1/3 of Venezuela’s food IMPORTS (as opposed to food consumed) come from the U.S. (Only about 2/9’s of Venezuela’s food consumed.) Even in absence of these reports, it seems unlikely that the U.S. exports no domestically produced consumer goods.
But you’re right- only Exxon and one other refused Venezuela’s buyout offer after nationalization. Which if why they are now in court, disputing what a fair price would be.
WTF- He will indeed find other consumers for Venezuelan oil, but he’ll have to ship farther and his new customers will have to build a new refinery or convert/expand an old one to handle Venezuelan oil. Which will cut into profits. Likewise, the U.S. can buy elsewhere, but will have to ship farther and may have to convert refineries. Neither side’s actions in this matter will greatly affect global supply or demand; just increase the shipping costs of all parties. So as to who will be hurt worse, who can say till they try it. I have heard that Venezuelan oil is of a unique mixture, and that refining it requires special equipment, but I a no chemist.
Maine-ah- I suspect you mean “Citgo”, not “Chevron”, as Citgo is Venezuelan owned. I don’t think Citgo has half the gas stations in the U.S., but that is only based on my own experience driving around. I could be wrong.
I support Hugo Chavez and his efforts to help the Venezuelan people. If only we our leaders cared about our welfare!
Cut the oil, I say. It may be the only way we have to decrease carbon dioxide emissions.
Paul Revere: What do you mean Chavez is “no angel”?
I think he has done remarkable work for the majority of Venezuelans and put in place programs that can only benefit the poor and working class while allowing the rich oil cartels to co-exist profitably.
He has the cajones to stand up to BUSH more than any other World Leader.
Just as warlords who kidnap children and force men to join their forces are considered legitimate players in some parts of the world, Exxon-Mobil, which causes far greater total harm to the current and future human populations, is considered legitimate in the US and among the predatory international elites. However, if the human race does survive this century, it appears extraordinarily unlikely that the legitimacy of criminal organizations like Exxon-Mobil will survive with it.
Chavez is one of few principled political leaders in this world. Standing up to such a gang of criminals with such powerful allies places him in great peril.
anyone wanna help overthrow our government?
please?
Way to go, Hugo.
@MannieDavis: Most “American” wehicles are assembled in the US, Mexico and Canada, of parts manufactured in Australia, India, South America, South Africa, Mexico and Taiwan. This is also true for “German”, “Japanese” and “Korean” vehicles. Only some expensive luxury cars are assembled offshore.
The US does manufacture and export some consumer goods (e.g., guns), but the US is now largely a service-oriented nation, rather than manufacturing-oriented as it used to be. This is one of the reasons why the US dollar will continue to plummet.
That’s one way to reduce America’s carbon boot prints.
This is starting to sound like high stakes and bellicose negotiating tactics on the part of both parties. The longer both parties dicker over this the more money they lose both in the expense of the continuing battle and the continuing devaluation of the dollar.
Eventually that refinery made to be able to handle Venezuelan crude and facilitate oil exdploration off the Cuban coast will be completed in Cuba and cosiderably weaken the allure of the American market for Venezuelan crude.
See details at:
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/2733
There is way too much negative inaccurate and just plain lying propaganda about Hugo Chavez, Evo Morales, and other world leaders the U.S. can’t bend to its will being disseminated not only by Bush, and the MSM, but in other publications, like Reader’s Digest, who described him as one of the 10 most dangeous dictators in the world! Is it any wonder so many people have no clue about truth (albeit, if more Americans read more investigative journalism they wouldn’t be so stupid when it comes to foreign affairs — or local affairs for that matter!). Go Chavez!!
Go Hugo! If Bush and Exxon are against you, you must be doing something right. Always stay fair against their unfairness. Mr. Danger has a year to go.
Get a bullet proof vest Hugo, and watch the skies!
The King of Vacations could be lurking near.
If food, beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes, guns, and a few other items are considered consumer goods, then I’m incorrect; but, other than the wide category of “guns,” none are really “industrial,” although we do speak of the “beer industry,” “Big Tobacco,” etc. The USA still mines a lot of oil, over 5 MBD–3rd on the Planet. We could have a really fine lifestyle with just that, but no, we MUST have even more. This will not happen. Overall net exports are already in decline. The peak of crude oil + condesate was 2004. Currently, total liquids (which includes biofuels) peaked in 2006. And we are rapidly approaching peak BTUs/Energy/BOE.
To ensure your loan will be repaid, the economy must grow. Ultimately, the economy’s ability to expand is based on energy. Thus, for your loan to be repaid, energy must continue to expand, which is why you see the crazy future energy demand amounts estimated/expected by EIA/IEA on their charts (please see this for lots of data and discussion, http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3064 )
Some have pointed out that the current situation amounts to a “Seldon Crisis” and/or Overshoot and a confirmation of the “Olduvai Gorge Hypothesis,” http://www.dieoff.org/page224.htm The future is going to be radically different from the present, and it’s going to be a very messy paradigm change.
Since oil is in many ways a “no choice” commodity, a freeze on Venezuela oil to the US, to the extent it raises Petrol, Transport and other oil based commodity prices, might not hurt Exxon has much as it hurts the US. The US will have to pay more elsewhere. Exxon will lose out on processing and resale of some oil products. But prices should go up, and we know Exxon has a healthy profit/monopoly margin. If the embargo continues, Venezuela will be forced to develop its own refining capacity or out source elsewhere. This will harm the US long term. And of course the US of I could always bomb Venezuela out of existence, or assassinate Chavez with rockets from the Skies, or another CIA backed coup. Murder is always the ready answer to the US of I world relationship problems.
Glad to hear people not talking smack about Hugo. You try running a country that is in the crosshairs of the US sometime, you know? Thanks for standing up, peoples.
Nancy,
If Chavez is trying to convince OPEC to switch to denominating transactions in petroeuros from -dollars, then he is extremely dangerous to the financial well-being of the wealthiest Americans which is predicated on the short term propping up of the failed US dollar.
In essence, Chavez can be like the grim reaper coming to carry off all the wealth that was built up on the current bubble economy. Makes him extremely dangerous.
His actual level of danger to everyone else is zero. In fact, he’s probably beneficial to everyone else in the world except those that control the world.
Mannie Davis: WTF is correct. Actually most Hondas, Toyotas etc that are sold in the U.S. are
manufactured in the U.S. with Union Labor and mostly american supplied parts. Many of these
Japanese cars and trucks are more “American” than the Fords, Chyslers, and G.M. sold here.
Hugo might be doin the USA a favor.
The higher price we have to pay for oil the sooner we will begin to invest in alternatives which will create lots of jobs, less pollution and less wars over Oil.
the problem for Hugo is that he won’t get credit for the up side….
After he reads this I think he will reconsider.
Also Oil can be got from other suppliers and new oil is being discovered all the time. Russia is now the biggest producer because they never believed in the Peak oil nonsense and found that oil is not caused from rotting dinosaurs but comes from deep within the earth…real deep.
On the OPEC dollar-peg, DUBAI: OPEC may abandon the dollar for pricing oil and adopt the euro but any such switch will “take time”, OPEC Secretary-General Abdullah al-Badri was quoted as saying by a weekly magazine. So, it’s not just Chavez. Iran is charging Japan in yen for the oil it buys. Russia will soon go 100% ruble for purchasing its hydrocarbons. This has a good collection of currency graphs and discussion of this topic. http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/3106
satr9prodxns; what do you have in mind as far as overthrowing the us govt, what does that mean?
A comment on the petrodaollars v petro euro: Iraq was invaded shortly after switching oil payments from dollars to euros. When Iran started to consider switching from dollars, they got targeted. Venezula has been talking for some time of switching. Ever since Hugo brought this up there has been a target on his back. There have been MAny ATTEMPTS by the CIA to assassinate and overthrow him. Hugo is fully aware of the danger. But he has been very smart. He has focused on the leftist movement, not just himself. And he has developed many allies. Even if the U.S. manages to kill him, they cannot stop the movement in South America.
If you want to learn more about the great things that are happening in SA, Yes Magazine did a great job last year at looking at what is happening. What is happening offers Americans an insight into what we need to do to take our country back for “we the people”. Happy reading!
http://www.yesmagazine.com/default.asp?ID=222
Jim Glover–your belief in abiotic oil is deep, so deep hip waders are needed to put your belief back onto the spreader from which it came. Russia’s oil exports are already in decline: “Because of higher domestic consumption, Russia reported about a 2.4% decline in net oil exports, from 2005 to 2006, even though they reported higher crude oil production.” Please read the Export Land Model discussion, http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3018
Well it is a soveregn nation and they should be able to decide who they sell they’re products to.
You ever seen the sign in stores [We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone].
After all our CIA did try to overthrow him. The rhetoric from the adminstration is scathing. Even some of our so called “religious leaders” {Pat Robertson} has called for his death.
What would you do in his place.
C’mon Hugo, we’re rootin for ya. Venezuela does not need the US refinery capacity for Venezuela’s “sour crude”. Venezuela does not need to produce oil at such a volume. Rather it is the oil addict, the US, which needs the volume. So let Hugo shut off the addict’s oil supply, and we’ll see who blinks.
Americans can do their civic duty to help crush the capitalist oligarchy by boycotting Exxon, Mobil, Chevron, and Texaco. If you have to buy gasoline, buy it from CITCO which is Venezuelan owned where the profits go to help the Venezuelan poor.
To go even further, we should prod Hugo to develop a program to get Venezuelans land titles. We need land titles for all, worldwide, NOW.
As for the US oligarchy and its current system of production - let it all collapse - it’s rotten tot he core and everyone knows it.
Didn’t Ayatollah Pat Robertson put out a fatwa on Chavez a couple years back?
The neocons won’t go after Venezuela just yet. Its more isolated than Iraq, so easier for the US to take and hold later. Pretty soon it will just be Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran and Venezuela. Everyone else bone dry.
What is clear today to a much larger number of people is that the US model of “laissez-faire” capitalism that supports massive privatized concentrations of economic power such as in Exxon is fatally flawed and doomed to destruction. This is not to say that the same robber barons could not corrupt a state-owned oil company with similar results. The question is not public versus private, but justice versus corruption.
Maybe a U.S. attack of Venezuela will be the “October Surprise” people predict will happen.
This is more serious than it looks. Venezuela is not a large enough country to withstand an invasion, and I think that those are the long term goals of the USA. If Hugo Chavez did cut the oil supply I feel that things would lead down that road.
This, in my opinion is where the US wants it to lead. The corporations that control Washington will not be happy until Venezuela looks once again like Haiti or El Salvadore. All of the social gains, in health, education, water supply and fair wages will be rolled back, and the people reduced to economic slavery once again. There have been assassination and coup attempts on Hugo Chavez already. His rhetoric is not based on nothing.
Venezuela is a THREAT to the corporations in the USA. The threat is this:- People will eventually begin to ask if a poor country can look after its people, why cant a rich country like the USA do the same.
Problem with Chavez’s threat: We could afford it, he couldn’t. I’m no fan of royals anywhere, but the King of Spain was right.
The USA and the energy states are in a parasitical relationship. If one’s cut off, so’s the other.
Hugo, you made my day! Give it to those bastards!
Back in ‘39′ Germany was rolling all over the world. It looked like no one was able to stop them. Correct, no ONE country was able to stop them. BUT, dozens of other countries united to KICK THEIR ASS. If you think that the US could have done it alone, even the tooth fairy is going to skip your house. In 2008, the US has become the Germany of 1939. Things may look good now; but hold your breath and prepare for a good ASS KICKIN’. The US is like the guy that jumped off the sky-scraper: for a while, he thought he was flying.
I totally agree with you, PETER SIROIS.
When one nation gets too big for its britches, the other nations come together and put it in its place. The US is acting like an arrogant teenager just daring the rest of the world to call its bluff. And the world WILL. The only question is when.
Perhaps Venezuela should freeze US assets in Venezuela just for the duration while the US holds Venezuelan assets frozen.
This ploy by Exxon came the day after the business pages were full of stories about high gasoline inventories in the U.S. and a predicted drop of prices at the pump of $0.50 per gallon.
And the military tribunal crap about Kalihd Sheik Mohammad and the death penalty for 9/11 came the day after Michael Ratner of the Center for Constitutional Rights pointed out on Democracy Now! that 9/11 is an unsolved crime and that the conclusions of the 9/11 Commission were completely suspect because they were based on confessions obtained through torture.
The pigs appear to be running scared.
Go Hugo!! I say buy Citgo. If he pisses George
off he has to be doing something right.
Give ‘em,Hell,Hugo!
mirf59 February 11th, 2008 12:32 pm
ezeflyer February 11th, 2008 3:27 pm
Me too!
Chavez has big balls!
bligh 2
I know you’re a bought and paid for troll but to come on this thread and advocate that Chavez pay Exxon what it wants is beyond the pale. The Rockefeller family (Exxon) under the name Cortez Petroleum stole zillions of dollars worth of Venezuelan oil for decades. Now you’re advocating that the Rockefellers get paid to stop stealing another country’s natural resources. Just remember what Shakespeare said: “An asshole by any other name is still an asshole.”
I am from a non Western country , and would like to know : will the situation change , dramatically or otherwise , should Barack Obama become the US President . Or will it be simply business ( and rhetoric) as usual - albeit with some minor mitigations.
If they can find other large buyers for their oil, then this time around they just might do it. The U.S. will be in a world of hurt for this right away.
You would think that the administration would have talked with Exxon first about the implications. This is another indication to me of who may be running whom.
Chávez has not threatened to cut off oil before UNLESS the U.S. invades Venezuela. The Venezuelan Oil Company fully owns Citgo with about 8000 stations in the U.S. that are run by independent dealers. Venezuela has an agreement to supply the U.S. with 900,000 barrels a day, and has contracts with EXXon for about 50% of that amount. Citgo has sold off two refineries in the U.S., but is building more in Latin America, one in Cuba that was mentioned, and more in China. The Venezuelan oil is heavy grade, and sells for about $10.00 or so less than the light sweet crude of many Arab countries. Chávez and Correro of Ecuador have been agitating for oil to be priced in Euros but IRAN already sells some oil in :Euros. While OPEC rejected Chávez attempt to get the change in oil pricing, the head of OPEC said yesterday that, because of the falling dollar, the organization was considering the possiblility, but it would take about a decade to make the transition. But it must be remembered that not all petroleum contries are in OPEC. Venezuela is the only Latin American nation that belongs. Chávez is trying to shift more of the country’s petroleum, and refining, to other nations, and has signed contracts with a number of LA nations to guarantee their supply of oil. His biggest hope is that China will be a major buyer, and refiner, in the future. Venezuela’s biggest trading partner is the U.S., but that is also changing. Chinese goods are prevalent in Venezuela, as they are every where, and Chavez is trying to increase trade with other countries. IRAN is building a plant to manufacture automobiles in the country, and Russia is building a plant to manufacture small arms. Chávez is building his ALBA trading group that includes Cuba, Bolivia, and some smaller nations. Ecuador has not agreed to join. Venezuela is in the process of joining MERCOSUR, the South American trading group. Venezuela probably cannot do without the U.S. petroleum market now, but it is possible he can reduce the relaince on this market in years to come. There are other things, however, that he can and will do. He will deny EXXon the right to bid on future developments–the Oil Company yesterday took that step already. European analysts have pointed out that oil companies normally refrain from the steps Exxon has taken because it is hard for them to win, and all companies, including Exxon, need to have access every where they can get it. Chávez is likely to win in the end, but it is not in the interest of the American people that he cut off petroleum because if he were able to do so, his prediction that petroleu would go to $200.00 a barrel is possibly correct. Or at least there would be an increase. As satisfying as it would be to see him do so, for now, we must hope he takes action directly against Exxon in constructive ways. We can buy from Citgo stations if they can be found; they are mostly on the East Coast and some in the Midwest. 7/11 did sell Citgo oil until about a year and a half ago.
Unless he cuts off all oil sales it will have only temporary effects. Oil pumped anywhere is oil pumped everywhere. Oil consumed anywhere is oil consumed everywhere.
This would be an excuse for sanctions draconian enough to ensure cheating. Then escalation due to cheating etc. media continues to be an echo chamber - Then incident and war.
RJKT It would appear that the WTO (corpeRAT interests) own all the horses in the race. So outside of a peoples candidate rising to the presidency in a third party I wouldn’t expect to see any change here in the U.S. in the executive branch.
Most Amerikans still believe that we have a two party system ,while in reality they’ve become two sides of the same one
oligarchy.
Things aren’t bad enough here to awaken the sheeple to this fact.
Most of the public believe that Hugo is the villain.
Not I
Viva Chavez
Rudyjo,
Actually, Toyotas, while largely domestically made, are all non union. I did civil engineering for Toyota and many of the Japanese parts supplier plants in Kentucky. While they were non union, many pay good wages and benefits (but only because of the UAW’s wage-pressure in the car mfg. job market), but some didn’t and loooked like unplesant places to work.
Go Chavez!!! I agree 100% with your view of the bush administration and I applaud your fighting back against the worlds worst environmental corporation, Hexxon. They put an environmental hex on every place they do business.
I cannot understand how people here at CD can support a monster like Chavez. He has killed hundreds of thousands of people, most of them children. He has shut down all the TV stations. people have to have permits to meet in groups of three or to wear jeans. He is using oil money for the benefit of the poor. But doesn’t he realize that the oil will run out? His use for the oil is not sustainable. He should let the rich use the oil until it runs out. That is what’s called sustainable development. He is an economic illiterate. His popularity simply compounds the enormity of his genocidal vision.
The U.S. is not only meddling in Venezuela, it’s meddling in Bolivia, as well, and U.S. officials are bringing weapons into Bolivia for the right-wingers there and asking people to act as spies for America.
“Exxon wants more compensation from the Chavez government after it took control of Exxon oil projects last year.”
I wonder if Exxon or any other major oil companies are making the same demands on the Saudis or other Middle Eastern oil countries where they have similar oil support projects and contracts?
Check out this “model contract” between Iraq and international oil companies:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ac517e88-d448-11dc-a8c6-0000779fd2ac.html
To whoever above said they didn’t think Venezuela could withstand an invasion, I pose the following question? Can the US find enough troops to try to pre-emptively strike still another sovereign nation? The military is about to break under the current strain—unless you’re talking about indescriminate bombing? Maybe the Air Force is still functioning. Oh yeah! I forgot. Bush’s three trillion $$$ budget proposes to further inflate military spending. They’ll find a way somehow—afterall, what CAN’T money buy these days?
Gail: We line up with everyone else to kiss the Royal Saudi behind, but Iraq is all ours now and Venezuela is right in our back yard!
workreno: thanks very much for the clarification . The media here have depicted Obama in a completely different light : as the first leader to emerge with an almost messianic appeal to the mass of American people.
What is the matter with old Hugo? Hasn’t he seen our occupation of Iraq? Doesn’t he know we will go after that oil with all the force and fury we are able to muster? You will sell to us or we will bomb you back into the stone ages. Isn’t that what we do?
Soeharto,
There you go again making outrageous comments without basis. You know, the least you could do is support your accusation with some evidence. Hugo Chavez has been the best thing to hit South America in a very long time. The people love him. He’s been re-elected twice and has stood up to the right wing in this country consistently. He’s the only leader that has the guts to confront Bushco head on. If we had an opposition party in this country with the tenacity that Chavez has we wouldn’t have suffered this long descent into madness in the first place. Again, you’ve made the people on this blog very aware of your complete disregard for facts. We don’t buy what you’re saying. You will soon be placed on “troll” status. When you begin to see this term directly following your comments you have nobody to blame but yourself. Please try to support your comments. It’s common dreams courtesy.
Please read:
Chavez Re-Elected For Third Presidential Term in Landslide Victory
In Venezuela, President Hugo Chavez won re-election by a wide margin on Sunday, securing a third six-year term in office. With most of the ballots counted, Chavez had won over 60% of the vote, more than 20 points over rival Manuel Rosales.
Minutes after the results were announced, Chavez appeared on the balcony of his presidential palace in Caracas singing the national anthem. He told cheering supporters his “Bolivarian revolution” had triumphed and vowed to boost social programs that have won him support among Venezuela”s poor.
Chavez also mocked President Bush calling his re-election “another defeat for the empire of Mr. Danger” and he sent out a “brotherly” salute to Cuban President Fidel Castro.
Challenger Manuel Rosales later conceded defeat but vowed to remain in opposition. Sunday’s election saw a high turnout and the poll was monitored by hundreds of international observers.
starofthesea: You sound like a B&B in Cape May. I think its two beautiful Victorian houses. Hugo can wait until Iraq signs the PSAs. There are still lots of dirty tricks and incriminations to keep him guessing until the US makes its move.
The one refreshing thing is neither Clinton, Obama, McCain or Huckabee would probably sanction such a thing. Its really only the neocon PNAC goons who believe we have a right to take resources by force. Its beginning to look like Limbaugh, Hannity and Coulter will have to start spinning their vicious lies back at square one. Obama might even leave Iraq alone.
Just do it, Mr. Chavez. As a patriotic American citizen I,like Seam Penn, stand firmly behind you.We need a show down with the big oil companies that control the world.
Another chapter in the 500 years of rebellion against colonialism and capitalism. Long live the rebellion!
All this talk of us possibly invading Venezuela here. I don’t see it happening for any reasons given in this article. Yes, Bush invaded Iraq, but he had “swell” reasons and our dumb-ass Congress and at leasst 65% of Americans supported those stupid, illegal reasons. Now, most of Congress and most Americans, realize it was a disasterious blunder to attack Iraq.
Remember Bush’s reasons? Saddam had been behind 9-11 and he had weapons of mass destruction and had purchased uranium from Africa. Saddam was going to kill all of us. After NO WMDs were ever found and the NIE report stated Saddam didn’t have any, and had never purchsed uranium from anyone, then the reasoning was, Saddam was a monster and we were taking him out and give the Iraqis Democracy.
Taking control of the oil in Iraq was not publically mentioned until 2007, by Greenspan. Then that reason was denied of course and our ‘FREE’ press, did’t follow up on it.
So what reason would Bush, or any possible next president have to attack Venezuela? Because they refuse us ship THEIR oil to us? Would the American public support that? __ I think not. Would Congress support such a war? Even as stupid as they have been, ___ I think not. And as another blogger stated, what military do we have that is prepared to fight another war? Hell, we can’t win the wars we started in Iraq and Afganastan. If America did such a thing, the entire world’s nations would be on our ass like stink on shit.
And we ship refrigerators, electronics, automobiles, food and other necessary commodities to Venezuela? How come I can’t find anything in our stores made in America? And now 40% of OUR food in the stores is imported. We bought an American brand refrigerator, washer and dryer from Sears four years ago, and all three were made in Mexico.
Just about everything we can find to purchase now, including my glasses frames, computer ink, toothpaste and the cat food, is made in China. We don’t make much of anything amymore if compared to just twenty years ago.
Venezuela can buy cars made in Korea, China, Germany, Mexico, etc. China is making luxury Buicks that out preform ours for gas mileage and emissions. The last set of American Goodyear tires I bought, were made in Mexico. Venezuela can do wihtout importing anything from us. And finally, when our depression hits, and it will, we won’t be exporting, or importing anything at all.
Bush has bankrupted this country, ruined our Army, our National Guard units and the Marines and we’re gonna suffer from his policies that will cause a great depression. We won’t need any oil then either, because we won’t have any cash to buy any. We’ll all be fighting for food. And 40% of it won’t be coming in. __ That’s how I see it. Venezuela is just one country that’s going to eventually shove it up or asses. We don’t have any friends anymore.We actually haven’t had any for a long time, a lot just fear us, because we do have bombers, nuclear subs, aircraft carriers and atomic bombs, which we at times threaten to use. __ Pitiful.
Fantastic points KEM PATRICK,
There is a striking tendency for posts on Sites such as this to assume Omnicompetancy for the U.S. Military and whatever Globe-dominating “them” one is writing about at any given time.
Think back a little through history folks, The U.S. Military hasn’t won a War where the opponent had decent Air Defence since WWII, and even then they needed the Nukes to knock Hirohito into submission, and the Red Army slogging it out on the Eastern Front to divide the German Defence.
War on Venezuela would make War on Iran look like a fuckin’ walk in the park. And look at that “intelligence report” -somebody in Defense or the Pentagon or Somewhere sure put the Kibosh on Darth Cheney’s scheming there eh?
I know, I know, some of you still think an Iran War is in the offing, and who knows? maybe. But whoever starts anything over there more than a “precision strike” that Putin and the Chinese have signed off on, is gonna first need to can every General and every Joint Chief with a triple digit IQ.
‘Cause you’ll need a true Moron to go after Iran,- a REAL Military, with an Air Force and a Navy and Air Defence, and a 70% mountainous terrain to DEFEND- with the Armed Foces that are about to collapse from trying to stop random, quasi-formal groups of farmers and ex-soldiers and Neighborhood Watch volunteers with A-K’s, who spend half their time fighting each other not the U.S., and the other half taking U.S. bribes. If they can scrounge up the time, they get together the bit of common piping and copper/steel they need to construct a makeshift EFP that’ll turn a $20mil Bradley Fighting Vehicle into an Upside-down Hell of being Burned and Suffocated, and laughs at the fancy-schmancy MRAP as it blows it into a million dollar pile of Scrap.
Iran’s safe (from the U.S.) and Venezuelas’s safer, it’s Iran with a Popular government and Dense Forest in its Mostly Mountainous Terrain. A Military force that can only take on small arms Insurgents in pan-flat territory with high price Air Power doesn’t scare anyone one with any sense, or balls.
Look at the Taliban, for pete’s sake, gather a few thousand A-K’s, a couple dozen Toyota pick-ups, and some goat-herders willing to subsist on canned-food and God, and you too can succeed against the Most Powerful Military Alliance in all of History! Long as you got them Mountains, baby.
No, Venezuela is in no danger, outside of some kind of Coup/Assasination Deal on Chavez himself, but that went down like a lead shitpile last time, and this time everybody will see it coming.
A clear-headed look at the World, one in which we don’t assume that people that would turn the Constitution into a snotrag actually give two rat’s asses about the United States of America, might be useful.
It might lead us to see that splittin’ town sounds more like these folk’s game. And if they can’t work that, going “Shock Doctrine” on our ass.
But I can’t see that working to well, either. How you gonna impose Marshall Law if your Bush? With the broke-ass Army? With the National Guard? Can anyone REALLY see these boys treating people HERE the way they treat people in Iraq? AFTER they’re already freaking-out from what they did over there due to ignorance and fear? How could any future Democrat do it? When 10 million country-boys with guns STILL wanna hang Clinton for Waco and Ruby Ridge?
I just can’t see it.
Don’t think about cops and “peaceful protesters”, think about Soldiers and an Armed Populace. Think about Months or Years of this kind of thing:
“Sorry Cousin Bob. I’m here to arrest and torture you ’cause some dumbfuck liberal told me too.”
I know, I know, even after reading all this a lot of you are still seeing it. Some kind of fake “911-style attack” right? Or something smaller played up? “They” gotta have a Plan, right? And it’s Gotta be a good one , right?
Well, I say: Clever and Rich and Willing-to-do-Anything don’t count for shit when Impossible comes knockin’.
I’m starting to think most of “Their” B.S. is just about promoting this belief in “Their” Omnicompetency, that’s why its always the Last Lie to Go, even with “progressives”.
I’m starting to think “They” are really just good at bullshitting and stealing money and don’t know crap about anything else.
I’m starting to think I should, and all of you reading should, consider the possibility that the answer to the question:
“Why can’t they find a six-and-a-half foot tall Arab on Dialysis in the middle of a Pashtun ‘tribal area’ the size of Connecticut after SIX YEARS?”
is,
“Because, they really ARE as stupid, greedy, and incompetent as they seem, and we could be rid of them in a month if we’d really try.”
apologies for colorful language,
-matti.
Oh, and viva Hugo Chavez!
Nothing quite like watching those dark, Andean features tell Prescott Bush’s Grandson where he can stick it, is there?
It’s like:
“Holy Crap! Injuns! and they’ve read Marx! Run for Kennebunkport, Barb! Hide the silver! But don’t let the Help see where, I think they’re in on this together!”
-matti
This whole situation reminds me of the Mossadeq coup in Iran, in 1953. There, you had a popular elected leader, who stood up to Britain and the US, to defend his plans, for the nationalisation of the Iranian oil industry.
Hugo Chavez is immensely popular in his own country, and indeed in South America as a whole. He is also seen as a hero, by other countries who are not “on message” with the US.
The current US administration, reminds me of the “robber barons” of the middle ages, who use violence and power, to steal whatever they require for their insatiable greed.
If the US really wanted to hurt Venezuela, they would support Chavez. Unless he gets control of his temper and follows some basic rules of economics, the country will do the same swan dive that the black market B’s have been doing I’m afraid.
AndyUK :”The current US administration, reminds me of the “robber barons” of the middle ages, who use violence and power, to steal whatever they require for their insatiable greed.”
So very true . Just a caveat or qualification though . The robber baron tendencies are very deep rooted - but administration-neutral. Therefore it should be ‘business as usual’ even if a Sir Galahad were to come to power in Washington.
And how can we forget the Camp Followers ( viz. the EU and the UK ). They’re so very much part of Uncle Sam’s entourage . Bring up the rear, yapping like hyenas, and feeding off the detritus Uncle Sam leaves in his wake.
Soeharto February 11th, 2008 11:18 pm
I cannot understand how people here at CD can support a monster like Chavez. He has killed hundreds of thousands of people, most of them children. He has shut down all the TV stations. people have to have permits to meet in groups of three or to wear jeans. He is using oil money for the benefit of the poor. But doesn’t he realize that the oil will run out? His use for the oil is not sustainable. He should let the rich use the oil until it runs out. That is what’s called sustainable development. He is an economic illiterate. His popularity simply compounds the enormity of his genocidal vision.
—–=——————
Oh my goodness, fantasy world anyone? You must be an ExxonMobil employee, huh? Next time you decide to post such stuff as this please try to link to whichever parallel universe you got this stuff from. Venezuela has the second largest reserves of oil in the world, though it is not the light sweet crude of the Saudis and must be refined at a higher price.
Nevertheless, Venezuelan oil, unlike that of the Exxons of this world ( not your parallel one), comes at a fair market price, while the BP’s and E/M’s et all use fictitious middle men to hike the barrel price again and again; forty bucks in the field to almost one hundred in the marketplace.
Oh and if you can show proof that Chavez has:
“He has killed hundreds of thousands of people, most of them children. He has shut down all the TV stations. people have to have permits to meet in groups of three or to wear jeans.”
Then I will apologise for calling you either an agent of the right or a damn fool.
ruthru, surely Soeharto, was jesting. He reference was more aimed toward his namesake than Chavez.
Although the oil industry in Venezuela was a State oil company long before Chavez, how much do you think it paid in taxes or revenues to the State before Chavez? Nada, nothing. More like Exxon owes Venezuela big time.
And anyway, if the US tried to invade Venezuela, Johan Santana would probably boycott the season as would many or all of the other 20 or so major league players. See, Bush messed with baseball once, but he’d better not mess with it again.
The Venezuelans and Exxon/Mobil need to resolve this quickly. Venezuela having the second largest reserves is a surprise to me. The top 5 countries having the most reserves of conventional oil are in the Middle East. The top country for non conventional oil reserves (tar sands) is Canada, that I am aware of.
Soeharto, quit drinking the kool-aid, it makes you appear more ridiculous than your post. “killed hundreds of thousands of people, most of them children”…geeezzz, where do people get this stuff.
Chavez is a bit of a whacknut but there is no denying Venezuelan people are better off with his government, with the possible exception of the 1-2% of the population who are the wealthiest and the “elite”. Education, poverty reduction, housing, health care…you name it, the vast majority are better off today then the pre Chavez days.
RJKT: you are right concerning the “camp followers”, I despair of UK politics, when I look at the major politicians nowadays. They spend their time trying to be everything to everyone, forgetting their electorate, and important domestic issues. I still think that the EU is a fine idea, and I would be pleased if the UK showed more interest in this alliance of countries rather than the US.
However, modern politics demands that you pay your dues to the highest bidder, so the oil companies and weapons manufacturers are the big fish in this pool.
BobBeaSea - the ‘wealthiest and the elite’ haven’t lost a damn thing since Chavez - in fact, the Venezuelan economy is stronger than ever and the wealthy are raking it in. What they have lost is political power - and the power to control what happens to all that oil, and they don’t like it one bit. They consider themselves quasi-Americans and can’t stand that the real Venezuelans are in control. Pilger does a good report on this in his film The War on Democracy. http://freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=171
Adelante Hugo Chavez!
Great post Matti. I usually can’t stick it out through those long ones but that was great. The line about the 10 mill. country boys with guns still pissed about Waco and Ruby ridge is something we Americans forget sometimes. “Why do the terrosists hate us”? — just the irony of it all. There is a Ruby Ridge every other day in Palestine and hundreds of Waco’s in Iraq.
Soeharto
——-HAHAHAHA I really had a good laugh. Nice post. Sometimes its nice to have something like this to dilute all the seriousness and stress. Though I hope this is the effect you intended, otherwise……
As for this issue, how did exxon won asset-freezing court orders against Venezuela? Under what premise did the courts find it reasonable to issue such orders?? Are there ways to access any of these court dialogues?
BobBeaSea,
I read in Greg Palast that Venezuela has the largest reserves of heavy oil, tar sands as you call it, in the world. In fact, I understand that it is a volume larger than the reserves of any nation of any type of oil, including Saudi Arabia.
I was on a plane recently and noticed the guy next to me reading technical books on oil extraction. I confirmed he was a petroleum engineer and asked him about Palast’s shocking claim. He confirmed it.
This is another reason why Chavez is so important. It’s one thing to advocate a threatening position. It’s quite another to do so while sitting on a huge pool of oil, and have a legitimate basis for assuming control over all OPEC in the future.
And, as the price of oil goes up, so does the power of Chavez. The economics of heavy oil extraction work more and more to the benefit of Chavez as the political risk of oil supply continues to drive the price up.
The United States has been bullying Chavez and Venezuela long enough. Actions do have consequences, even for Americans who think they are above it all. You go Chavez! Put America in it’s place!!!!It’s time to take America down a peg.
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves
Venezuela sends about 1.5 million barrels/day to the U.S. (and pumps about 2.6 mb/d) China would love to get that oil, even if its refineries are not yet ready for heavy Venezuelan crude.
China currently is working on 300 million barrels of strategic reserve capacity. The U.S. has a Strategic Reserve capacity of 727 million barrels. I’m sure China could quickly build a temporary ‘lake’ to grab all of Venezuela’s exported oil while they build the refinery to process it.
“Cutting off oil deliveries to the US would be damaging to Caracas as well as Washington.”
I think the U.S. would be hard pressed to purchase another 1.5 million barrels/day on the ‘market’. Whereas Venezuela could easily send all of its ‘U.S.’ oil to China in a long term contract, even at a loss. The U.S. is wasting $1 trillion in Iraq over 5 years. Chavez would gladly ‘waste’ $5 billion to thumb his nose at Exxon and Bush. Hey, ‘foreign policy’ costs money.
It doesn’t matter if China cannot refine the crude *right now*. They will store it till they are ready. This is ‘extra’ oil for growth in a few years. It does not free up oil from the markets for 2008. Hence the price will shoot up, making Americans pay for Exxon’s bluff.
If you still have an SUV, sell now and avoid the rush. Seriously, once gasoline starts passing $4 and $5/gallon, gas guzzler resale value is going to plummet.
karlof1
Your link was based on the Texas model and that was my point.
Russia exports have dropped a bit because of increased domestic demand and they have huge un-tapped oil fields but are waiting for the price to go up. They are planning ahead. http://www.kommersant.com/p838621/Crude_export_decline/
US oil production has no plan except the Texas peak oil nonsense.
There are large oil reserves under lake Erie and all the great lakes but like Texas it is too expensive to exploit…. so that is Texas Peak oil theory.
New oil and refineries are planned for Cuba.
Socialist countries can plan ahead…. that is why they are winning.
Google new discovered oil and learn more.
RE: Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has threatened to cut off oil supplies to the US
The Alberta oil industry is probably jumping for joy at this news.
“That’s one way to reduce America’s carbon boot prints.”
No, it isn’t. American/Globalistic ‘proxy-factories’ are now spewing-forth incredible and completely UNREGULATED pollutions (forget CO2 — not pollution at-all, but ‘air’ that plants-need to give us ‘our O2′) all over Asia/India/elsewhere, instead of providing high-paying American livelihoods.
All this crap about ‘who owns the $0.60 per-barrel’ of worldwide&abundant Oil is nonsense, and a highly-profitable 100+year Refinery/monopolistic Scam, that Hugo benefits from just as much as Rothschild’s JDRockefeller did (when he invented/implemented it in mid-1800’s).
No ‘Peak-Oil’, no ‘Global Warming’ (other than what above-ground nuclear ‘testing’ 2k-times, mindlessly, accounts for — and with a little help from HAARP since ‘92), no one REALLY ‘owning’ any of that ‘oil’ [much less Exxon] except the People/’Commons’ of this entire-planet (and no one really ‘profiteering’ except the Northern/Wealthy colonialist-Powers/Interests.
It’s boring-already, and just Econ 0101 (if you think like Kissinger or a Bilderberger — like Hillary now, and her wayward-hubby then).
Nationalization (of Energy and Defense and Healthcare and most-others ‘we’, out of ignorance, desperately keep ‘privatized’) is the ONLY sensible thing a Country/Government that gives-a-damn about its Citizen’s can do right-now (but it’s ‘Illegal’ as Hell, and being rapidly reigned-in and ’stopped’ militarily-or-Covertly — ask Putin!). Or, better, ask Baron Nathaniel De Rothschild, Gore’s new best-friend in England…he owns most of the world’s uranium-mines and ‘likes’ neo-Lib ‘carbon-taxing’ and food-for-biofuels…[too damn-many ‘made-Poor People already!].
Or hell, ask your new President, if you can get an honest-answer out of her!
Or hell-yes, just do some Reading (hard-work, but Profitable!):
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7693
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=565
http://www.newamericancentury.org/publicationsreports.htm
Or, click my Name…
“It doesn’t matter if China cannot refine the crude *right now*. They will store it till they are ready. This is ‘extra’ oil for growth in a few years. It does not free up oil from the markets for 2008. Hence the price will shoot up, making Americans pay for Exxon’s bluff.
If you still have an SUV, sell now and avoid the rush. Seriously, once gasoline starts passing $4 and $5/gallon, gas guzzler resale value is going to plummet.”
Nope. I have a Blazer ZR-2 burning clean LPG — just like Schwarzenegger uses in his two-Hummers in a CARB-state, when driving-around the Kennedy’s or Exxon’s-President and ‘laughing’. And LPG is half-the-price of gas when purchased in negotiated large-quantities and completely-domestic (and stores cheaply/forever on your ‘back-40′).
READ, dammit…[Yes, ethanol is a motor/dependency-destructive cruel-joke on the world’s-hungry and You, and gasoline/petrol-diesel ALWAYS-was — ask Henry Ford or JDR, and ask Edison or Tesla about AC v. DC, while at-it — use a LPG-fired auto-engine to produce your DC-power and home-heating].
You don’t HAVE to be a ‘victim’, you know…
[C5H8 + O2 = CO2 + H2O … just like when YOU respire…why not your SUV?]
Matti - Thanks for your post regarding fear of “Omnicompetancy” (February 12th, 2008 4:26 am). Sometimes it seems almost as if folks are looking for something to be afraid of. Then they can both be afraid of it and gripe about it at the same time. These “omnicompetants” are fragile flesh and bone just like the rest of us.
And to think, all the while, all it really is is sickening piracy that needs to be vanguished for good, pompous self-inflated egos, and extreme lack of empathy. George Bush is nothing but a hateful, delusional, silver-spooned, fancified, country-club BS artist whose parents were very poor role models in all areas excepting the art of BS’ing and playing pretend King & Queen.
Some better ideas are starting to emerge and it seems to me Hugo Chavez is at the forefront. Fear is getting old and losing its grip (at least on those who choose to have a better vision….) From what I’ve read so far, I like Hugo’s vision - he seems like a man of the future!
So there might be some suffering coming up. Who cares - at least most of us will be suffering together and trying to help each other out. In the end, it might not even feel like suffering. It could be a new dawn.
Ken
you go, hugo! as far as i’m concerned, he and fidel are heroic figures.
Still love my 93 nissan with 28 mpg even with the air on.
Buffalo Ken: Sure like your attitude. I believe that the upheavel we are about to see IS going to be a new dawn. That’s why I’m not afraid. But I am trying to prepare.
One thing that does seriously bother me though is that Bush seems to be intent on sticking Putin in the eye. I’m not sure why he is doing it, but it is damn scarey. The new cold war and arms race that Bush has promoted has already started. And Russia is already going to send helicopter gunships to Venezula (16?). Very strange. Strange indeed.
KEM: The reason you can’t “buy American” here is because everything made in this country is exported. More money to be made by American manufacturers by exporting, particularly with the falling dollar. That goes for ag products as well, especially food. And especially subsidized products that drive foreign farmers off the land. It’s all about profit. Just like always.
AndyUK: “modern politics demands that you pay your dues to the highest bidder, so the oil companies and weapons manufacturers are the big fish in this pool.”
To reiterate what must surely be drearily obvious- the ‘ big fish ‘ have always ( and will always ) continue to be the real power behind the throne .In country after country throughout the West.
This is even more true in Uncle Sam ’s land of the ‘free’ - where even Sir Galahad the Peerless can’t dream of being anointed - without their giving him the nod.
“I still think that the EU is a fine idea, and I would be pleased if the UK showed more interest in this alliance of countries rather than the US.”
Never despair . The UK has ,time and again ,proved it is the niftiest trapeze artist ever . And will simply switch from riding Uncle Sam’s coat-tails to piggy-backing on the “Fellow Caucasians” . Milking both for all they are worth.
After all , they are the ’shopkeepers’ who brought down Napoleon .Then went on to become the fountainhead of ‘Empire’ including the neo colonial one.
There remains but one cloud on the horizon for the UK -EU ‘entente cordiale” . In the not-too-distant future it is the demographics that will trip them up . If present trends continue ,in both the EU and the UK ,the whites will become a minority.
MeAlsoToo:
You should seriously look into limiting your caffeine intake… or maybe put a piece of tape on the hyphen key to remind you not to use it so much.
LPG is mainly C3H8 (propane) and C4H10 (butane) by the way. C5H8 ??
1) LPG is not going to scale up and replace the current amount of gasoline used. Just like recycled french fry oil, it works for a few people, but is not a general solution. Good luck finding LPG during a long trip.
2) I said ‘gas guzzlers’, meaning in this context ‘gasoline guzzlers’. That doesn’t mean some joker can’t convert a Ford Expedition to using Lithium-ion batteries if he wants to, I’m talking about the 99.99% of people that are going to be stuck in a steel behemoth that gets something like 12mpg averaged (over city/highway/short trips/cold days) and is stuck using gasoline. In a vehicle fleet of 10’s of millions of SUV’s, only a very small percentage will not use gasoline. If low resale value makes millions of SUV owners convert to burning LPG, guess what will happen to the price of LPG ?
Peak Oil is a tidal wave that will impact everyone; Chavez will only slightly change the timing of the early waves.
I’ve seen Hummers converted to using H2 gas, BFD. It is still a huge chunk of metal that needs lots of energy to accelerate. And when the price of gasoline starts to skyrocket, it will pull everything else (diesel, LNG, LPG, biodiesel, ethanol, etc…) higher also.