MIDEAST: When the Occupation Gets Really Filthy
BETHLEHEM - In the orange glow of another sunset, Awad Abu Swai, 36, stands underneath a towering fig tree, a sample of its fruit in his hand. He peels back the bright green skin to expose crimson jelly and seeds inside.
“The Israeli military came inside the valley and cut about 50 apricot and walnut trees since May. And now, they are coming to cut more trees. This is all because of what they are building through this land — my land. Here, they are building a sewage channel to run raw sewage through this valley collected from four Israeli settlements near here.” 
Abu Swai is one of approximately 4,000 residents of the Palestinian village of Artas, located southeast of Bethlehem city. Artas is known regionally for its succulent vegetables, and fruit and nut trees. But over the last few months Israeli occupation forces have brought dozens of bulldozers to the eastern valley fields of Artas to construct a wall that will cut villagers off from this fertile land, while a concrete tunnel for raw settlement sewage grows longer each day.
Efrat settlement colony, part of the Gush Etzion settlement bloc that stretches around several villages and towns near Bethlehem, sits perched on a hill over Artas. Below the settlement, a colony which houses approximately 9,000 Israelis and immigrants, Israeli bulldozers and earth movers work day and night constructing the sewage channel and building the wall.
Artas villagers have kept up an active and defiant campaign over the last year after unofficial information was leaked to the community that the village was in danger. Villagers watched in shock as bulldozers kept moving down the hillsides from Efrat toward the orchards on the valley floor.
Since May, Abu Swai has led actions as head of the popular committee in Artas, inviting international and Israeli peace activists to join villagers in their fight against the occupation administration’s designs on this land.
Non-violent protesters have been shot at, beaten and arrested by Israeli occupation soldiers and private settlement security guards. Abu Swai tells IPS that he was imprisoned for five days after being badly beaten by an Israeli soldier during a non-violent demonstration as he tried to protect his land.
Elsewhere across the West Bank, Palestinian villagers are facing land confiscation as illegal settlement colonies expand and tumble down hillsides. Some are watching as crops and orchards become poisoned and contaminated from raw sewage being actively pumped into their land from the sewage treatment facilities inside Israeli settlements.
South of Artas village, sewage from the Gush Etzion settlement bloc is slowly decimating the farming village of Beit Ommar, a small community reliant on its agricultural exports. Next to a vineyard owned by several families in Beit Ommar sits Gush Etzion’s sewage treatment facility, surrounded by a fence with barbed wire. Two pipes jut out from the edge of the brackish open water pool, aimed directly at the vineyard.
“Here, you will see that the land is black. This is where the sewage is pumped when the sewage pool from the settlement gets too full,” Musa abu Mariya, 29, a farmer and Beit Ommar community leader tells IPS. He points to an area in front of the facility that was once full of Beit Ommar’s apricot and plum trees.
“The bulldozers came about two years ago and started to pile dirt into a circle so that the overflow from the pool would go there.” Abu Mariya says that every few months, especially in the rainy season, Gush Etzion starts to pump overflow sewage over the fence and into this built-up area — an open and unprotected pit. “The water just shoots right out. It is destroying all of these crops on Palestinian land.”
Abu Mariya tells IPS that a whole area in this vineyard is now completely contaminated because of another open pipe leaking sewage. On the other side of the sewage facility, a small orange pipe connected to the facility cuts through the barbed wire fence and opens directly in front of the vineyard. Dirty, foul-smelling water drips from the end of the pipe.
“Look at these grapes,” Abu Mariya says. “They are not good here. Before the sewage plant started pumping water here, these grapes used to be beautiful and delicious.” On one grapevine, the leaves are yellowed and curling, and the grapes themselves are grey and withered. “They are obviously sick grapes,” Abu Mariya remarks. “They are all poisoned and dirty. This is from the water that they pump onto this land from the sewage.”
Jeff Halper, Nobel Peace Prize nominee, former professor of anthropology at Ben Gurion University and co-founder of the Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions, tells IPS that this otherwise banal issue of sewage infrastructure is consistent with broadening Israeli policies of Palestinian dispossession.
“Infrastructure sounds innocuous, but the partisan planning behind it simply pushes Palestinians out of historic farmlands that are ether expropriated for settlements or Israeli-only highways, or which are flooded by sewage by settlements with no sustainable infrastructure of their own.
“Planning by the Israeli authorities is done with impunity regarding the Palestinians,” adds Halper. “It is merely one more means, more subtle than actual transfer, to alienate them from the lands and, in the end, render the greater Land of Israel cleansed of all but remnants of non-Jewish populations. It constitutes a crime of genocide, a crime taking place in the light of day and over six decades, that must be urgently addressed by the international community.”
Meanwhile, Abu Swai says he remains anxious as the sewage channel expands each day and the village prepares another round of direct actions against the confiscation and destruction of Artas. “We are going to the (Israeli) Supreme Court in two days to await a decision…they should determine that all of this destruction is illegal. We have certificates of ownership for this land from 1936. We hope we get justice.” (END/2007)
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The genoocidal policy of Israel toward Palestinians will not be solved by bantustanization. As the funding entity, we are responsible and should demand a one state solution with equal citizenship for Palestinians or we should cut off all money to Israel. No progressive should vote for a candidate not willing to do this.
It’s about time the Israelis put the swastika smack dab in the middle of the star of David on their flag, eh?
I don’t like what CommonDream are doing.
I counted 4 stories on the Israeli- Palestinian conflict just on CD the front page. On the same time I saw 0 stories on real Genocide such as what is happening in Sudan (500 times more casualties) I really see any humanitarian story on how Kurds and Arabs are being treated in Iran.
Focusing so much on any tiny piece of story that help paint Israel in dark colors, while neglecting 2,300,000 tragedies in Sudan and hundreds of millions of other world width horrors.
What CD are doing has a name. It is called Manufacturing consent.
Noam Chomski wrote a book about that subject.
Good point, Jaded Prole. I will follow that rule of thumb, which leaves very few candidates.
… and yours too, Peter. My contempt and despair grow when I wonder whether these leaders of Israel are really mutants of the human species who lack all conscience and sensibility.
We called many in Hitler’s Third Reich MONSTERS, and wondered the same thing.
Evil is as Evil does, and these disgusting leaders are EVIL from head to toe.
And these are the people, the rabid Christian Right support in the cause of ARMAGEDDON … and RAPTURE time.
I’d rather be living in a cave somewhere than be in that boring Heaven “up there” with the likes of all of them fighting over who gets to sit next to that Bloodthirsty Patriarchal Bearded Wonder on HIS throne. UGH!!!!
Again … Jaded Prole has it right.
Yeah, vet’s right, don’t look over here, look over there. Why can’t God’s chosen people steal land, shoot peaceful protesters and drown their own promised land in their own promised shit if the Sudanese are doing really bad things? It’s totally unfair that this is being reported.
You know what you’re doing you bunch of filthy antisemites? You are manufacturing consent, yeah! Now, what are you going to do about that hey?
I partially agree with the comment on candidates. But we can’t keep kidding ourselves that there is a perfect candidate. It is incumbent on us to change the discourse in this country. Let’s start by supporting democracy by calling for unconditional engagement with the democratically elected majority in Palestine, (Hamas), instead of calling for preconditions and undermining the Palestinian people’s choice. If the Progressive, Trotskyist, Socialist, etc. Movement can’t commit “to seek ways to listen, learn and support, rather than engage in dividing, deciding or speaking on others’ behalf” in Palestine, how can we expect our leaders to work to achieve compromises with democratically engaged political parties? to accept the democratic decisions of the Palestinian people? Dictatorship and Apartheid are greater threats to humanity than Political Islam.
www.araborganizing.org/solidarity
Demonizing Iran is certainly on the Israelis agenda as the neocons want their war by hook or by crook.
I also find it appaling how the Israelis would not allow Darfur refugees into Israel given all the outcries by certain groups about the Darfur crisis http://tinyurl.com/3e2zc5 .
dougnwagner - The Hamas is one of the most racist political movement that exists. It is true that they won the election. But so did the Nazi party in 1933 Germany.
Also - I’m not sure the Israeli government can talk with the Hamas even if the want.
Here is a quote from the Hamas charter:
“There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.”
dcbeltway - I’m in favour of an unbiased research. The numbers don’t lie.
See how many people were executed / killed / persecuted / cleansed in each country out of the list of 192 UN members.
You will find out that Israel is probably ranked as one of the top 50 best behaved countries in the world.
Certenly better ranked than Iran, who executed 40,000 people for their political, religious or sexual preferences.
Once more into the fray - first yesterday, and then a second time today. Has CommonDreams some agenda? At the end of yesterdays session it came down to this:
1) The State of Israel is a reality that is not going to disappear.
2) The stated aim of Hamas [Iran, Saudi Arabia…] is the destruction of the State of Israel.
3) Hamas is a terrorist organization.
4) We, the US, democratically “elected?” Geroge Bush twice. Elections are advertising games, as we American have proven so well.
5) Does George Bush represent you, most of the readers of CD?
6) Who does Israel sit at a table with? Hamas is not the only representative of the Palestinians, what about Abbas of Al Fatah who is willing to talk, and has, maybe reluctently accepted #1. Who supports, financially whom?
7) Whom does all this benefit? Who, on a global scale, benefits from this?
The United States Century is over, the Western European Centuries are over, the control of the worlds economy is in the Middle East, who wins in this? Are we going to allow this. Ask me again after the State of Israel is destroyed and the US has no bases to protect our oil supply in the Middle East. Ask me again when the entire region reneters the 17th and 16th century, where education and social justice, is gone and the rule is the rule of the gun, of terror, kidnapping, rape and murder. Ask me again when Israelis are once again dispersed among the nations.
Do the Palestinan people need help? You bet they do. But they are not getting it. And it is not the fault of Israel or even of the US. Their leaders are keeping them where thay have been for over a hundred years, as the dreg and pawns od Muslim society, good for killing and being killed but not good enough to become a citizen of Jordan, Sytrai, Iran, Lebanon or Saudi Arabia.
Many mistakes have been and are being made in this region, as ir has been for centuries. Yet no one is looking to make it all beter. Should the Israelis have built a wall to divide the land? Not if they didn’t need to. WHoudl George Bush be building a wall to protect the US from Mexicans?
If you need to accept the geopolictal reality as it is today, you will need to realign your view to fit into it. If you want your people to benefit, then teach them to read, give them decent food, hospitals, allow them to engage in commerce with whomever they choose, teach them to live with their neighbors, not how to kill them.
I’m sorry, that a man’s livelihood was taken away is a shame, he is another innocent victim of this. When inncoent victims, be they cafe patrons in Tel Aviv, or farmers on the West Bank stop getting hurt, when the stated aim of one of the parties to peace is not to kill and destroy the other party, then we talk.
I for one am not talking to a guy with a gun who hates me, I ain’t going near him, because he has no qulams about killing me. Do you expect nation-states to commit suicide?
Let’s MoveOn and use all this energy to make our world, our country, our homes and families better. So, go ahead a zap me, but I am outta this, cause it is words and music signifying nothing. Accept the reality, and work with it, don’t get the hopes of poor innocent people up, while depriving them of basic needs, by lying to them.
If Israel is so well behaved why did it turn away Darfur refugees and refuse Palestinian refugees the right to return???
If Israel is so well behaved why do they jail a whistle blower like Mordechai Vanunu who pointed out Israel’s nuclear weapons arsenal of over 200 weapons?
If Israel is so well behaved why has it violated more UN mandates then any other Middle East Country?
If Israel is so well behaved why did it attack civilian infrustructure in Lebanon including airports, schools, and hospitals last year when its goal was to get Hizbololah?
If Israel is so well behaved why does it need to sanction its neighbors including Syria and Iran and let people suffer under sanctions.
If Israel is so well behaved why did it support a pre-emptive strike against Iraq and is endorsing the same for Iran?
If Israel is so well behaved why did it allow the IDF to run over Rachel Corrie and kill other ISM activists?
If Israel is so well behaved why does commondreams always post these articles?
Finally, if Iran is such a threat to Israel why don’t the Iranian Jews leave Iran? They are the largest Jewish community outside Israel in the Middle East? Is it because they are proud of their Persian heritage and don’t buy into radical Zionism?
As I don’t have all day to write this list I will stop here. However, it could be a lot longer.
I have never seen Vets post on any other topic but this one.
Yeah, you’re right again vets, don’t look at Israel, look at Nazi-Germany, look at Iran, Israel is better than Iran, dare I say it’s even better than Nazi-Germany. Look at Sudan, look at wherever but don’t look here. Move along now, you cannot criticize Israel, that is antisemitism.
Actually I didn’t want to say that because it makes me look so stupid, but hey it’s true!
And Hamas is the nazi-party, because they were elected too, so there! What occupation? Nazi-Germany was occupied too when Hitler was elected in 1933 - and even then they didn’t have something like the Hamas charter, if that isn’t proof enough. I know my history. You can’t talk to Hamas, that would make you Chamberlain, yeah! And Hamas wasn’t created with the help of Likud, that’s a filthy lie! What are you a fucking racist or something?
Great article and very nice to see. I was in Bethlehem earlier this summer and joined numerous Friday protests, including at this location - Artas. For a long time Palestinians have been doing this peaceful and non-violent resistance to the Wall, the Occupation and in this case the simple theft of their land (for settler sewage!). A few observations:
1) These protests are done by not only Palestinians. Progressive Israelis and international activists are there also, actively supporting. The Israelis play an important role talking with the soldiers and explaining the injustice in Hebrew.
2) It is highly counter-productive to compare Israeli policies with German Nazism. Time and again I have seen this divert discussion, shut minds, and undermine the cause of peace with justice. I have yet to hear a single Palestinian do it. Whether there is any comparison is beside the point.
3) Regarding Hamas, the smear and distortion campaign continues. Hamas offered discussion and a long term peace treaty with Israel. They unilaterally enacted their own suspension of attacks for over a year before the elections. See Jimmy Carter’s where he documents how Hamas tried to form coalition government with Fatah after Hamas won the election. Israel, the US and West preach democracy. Their practice is different.
4)”Right to exist”? The issue is acceptance of Israel as a Zionist state where anyone who can claim some Jewish heritage has preferential rights and any Arab is discriminated against. The civilized world should not accept this “right” to be ethnically biased.
4) In Tel Aviv there was a great demonstration against the occupation on June 10. There is a good video on You Tube titled “Protest in Tel Aviv” from Munster43. It features interviews with Israelis who denounce the occupation, advocate for true democracy, and correctly point out that violence and discrimination against Palestinians is the source of insecurity. I saw Israelis on the front lines in demonstrations in the Occupied Territories … where they are breaking Israeli law just be being present. My hat is off to them as well as the courageous Palestinians who face some much abuse and hardship while being continually slandered.
- Rick
www.rickinpalestine.blogspot.com
Commondreams also just posted an article on Israel’s deportation of Sudanese refugees:
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/21/3305/
Having just read the article about the deportation of 50 sudanese from Isreal, I had a couple of questions.
1. Why are they trying to get into Israel? Why not some other country?
2. They say they are trying to flee persecution from the egyptians. The article goes on to say that there are 2 million sudanese refugees in Egypt, and that the complain about discrimination and state brutality. Why isn’t the article about that, and not the fifty that have tried to cross into Israel? Where are the people that are speaking out about these 2 million refugees?
Simple Bligh because the Israelis are the ones raising awareness for Darfur to begin with. So they are being hypocritical.
http://tinyurl.com/29b9rs
The Egyptians aren’t doing anything and that you are correct on. They should. But they aren’t the ones shouting Free Darfur by the way.
I can see where that would be hypocritical. Still, the article becomes a “gotcha Israel” article, with no real concern for the people involved. I would think that if 2 million people are being subjected to state brutality, as the article says, it would warrant at least minimal coverage on Common Dreams.
Say, one article on the the Egyptian abuse of Sudanese refugees for every 5 articles on the Israeli abuse of Palestinians?
dcbeltway, Oebi
The Israeli subject is close to my hart. Do you have problem with that?
I also like subjects such as Energy, Climate change, History etc. Here is example of articles I posted which are not related to Israel. You can see that my post are dated prior to your claims that I only post on one topic.
Why ‘Peak Oil’ May Soon Pique Your Interest
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/15/3196/
The Myths of World War II
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/13/3139/
dcbeltway - I never said Israel is well behave. There are many issues and problems with the Israeli policy that are not right. All I said was “one of the top 50 best behave”. (Which means better behave)
Better behave is not identical to well behave.
You can give the name of Rachel Corrie, a tragedy indeed (Which I’m sure not planed by the Israeli government. You know that name because you are well educated in all of Israel missbehaved.
Can you give the names of all 2,300,000 black christians who die in Sudan? Can you give but one name?
Are you confident that you judge Israel under the same basic humanitarian rules that you judge everyone else on this planet?
What is occuring in Palestine is an Israeli version of genocide, which is aided and abeted and financed by the neo-cons, both of the Republican Party and the centrist Democrats. It is sickening that israle will receive $30 billion in free military aid, while Bush decimates health care for lower income children.
Those of you interested in voting for CLINTON might reconsider when you take into consideration her stance on Israel (thats why one of the reasons I’m voting for Obama).
So “vets” doesn’t like talk about what the Israeli government is doing to Palestinians? I think perhaps (and I may be optimistic) that it’s a twinge of conscience on his/her part.
It’s painful to hear what your own people are doing to weaker ones. I imagine that decent Germans felt the same when Nazis were exterminating Jews.
You do NOT want to believe that your own country is doing incredibly evil things. But as we all know, they REALLY DID, and even proudly documented it for posterity.
I feel the same horror and dismay when I read what the US did to the Native Americans, African-Americans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, and god-know-who else. Yet it’s ALL TRUE. And if we don’t face it, and change it, we will all go down with the sinking ship.
Vets: YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bligh: Truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vets, I have read your postings with great delight. You certainly know your history. I for one am disgusted by the ugly anti-semitism disguised as criticism of Israel rampant on Common Dreams. The stupidity of comparing a loss of some someone’s crops to the systematic murder of six million people of one ethnic race is beyond belief. These people obviously do not believe that the Jewish people have a right to self determination. They do not believe that the Jewish people have a right to have their own Jewish state where they can protect themselves from these very people who keep thinking of ways to wipe them out. One writer wrote that there should be a one state solution. Combined with his comment re: right of return, this would effectively get rid of a JEWISH state, wouldn’t it? I think that’s the point. One has to wonder why Israel is always judged by different standards then other countries are including those who really do commit ethnic cleansing or genocide.
Bligh, I think you hit the nail on the head.
The editors on this website do not really care about what arabs do to other arabs and others because that does not further their agenda. They do however post articles like this one about how the “evil” Jews (oh, I mean Israelis) are dumping sewage on the Palestinians. ITS GENOCIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whats up???????????????????????????????
The US Congress doesn’t even hold Israel to the same standards as we do other countries. Had Rachel Corrie died in China, Egypt, Brazil, or France by their military forces there would have been an investigation. Since its Israel the IDF gets away with murder.
Criticizing Israel is not anti-semitism. Its holding Israel to the same standards as everyone else in the world community. But its easy to scream and whine anti-semtism and racism when you cannot refute people’s arguments or the reality on the ground.
Read this comment by Francis Boyle, Professor of International Law, University of Illinois
“I spoke with the head military lawyer for the IDF [Israel Defense Forces], Joel Zinger, and I said ‘You know, I’m two weeks here. It’s clear you people are inflicting Nuremburg crimes on the Palestinians — exactly what the Nazis did to the Jews. What’s your explanation?’ He said ‘Military necessity’. Notice, he didn’t disagree with me. I said ‘That argument was rejected at Nuremburg when the lawyer for the Nazis made it.’ So then he said ‘Well, we have public relations people in the United States, and they handle these matters for us.’ “
PS:
Another pertinent comment, this one from Paul Findlay, a former U.S. Congressman:
“”I don’t believe my neighbors here in Jacksonville, my hometown since my birth, have any idea how much trouble they’re in, all of us in America are in. We’re in a deep hole because we’re so heavily biased in favor of Israel, and the whole world knows it, and they’re astounded by it. They can’t comprehend why America, with its great cherished traditions, would close its eyes to the dreadful punishment that we have enabled Israel to inflict on virtually defenseless people.”
marta - “So “vets” doesn’t like talk about what the Israeli government is doing to Palestinians?”
Sure I do. Otherwise I wouldn’t be here.
“You do NOT want to believe that your own country is doing incredibly evil things.”
My own country is Canada. What Evil thing are they doing?
dcbeltway - “Criticizing Israel is not anti-Semitism.”
I went through your past posts dcbeltway, even though I don’t always agree with you, they are clearly NOT anti-Semitism.
However, some of the other commenters in CommonDreams are hard core anti-Semites:
-I have read calls for Nuclear Holocaust that will kill all Israelis.
-I have read calls to ethnically cleansed all the Israeli citizens and sent them on boats to Europe.
-I have read calls for crime against humanity only against Jews (Firing rockets on civilian targets), because Jews control the world finance.
-I have reared calls to shoot 6 millions Israelis (All the Non-Liberal Israelis)
-I also don’t agree when comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. This type of comments should be dismissed as either Holocaust denial or ignorance.
Vets I agree totally that those comments that you list are anti-semitic and appaling. Posters like that do not help the cause of peace and justice.
However, Adamslp says anti-semitism is disguised as criticism of Israel. I take offence to that as not all critiques of Israel are anti-semities. In fact some of the most important critics of the Israeli government are jews such as Amira Haas who write for Ha’Aretz and lives amongst the Palestinians in Gaza.
Elsewhere across the West Bank, Palestinian villagers are facing land confiscation as illegal settlement colonies expand and tumble down hillsides. Some are watching as crops and orchards become poisoned and contaminated from raw sewage being actively pumped into their land from the sewage treatment facilities inside Israeli settlements.
Wow.
So, literally, the people in the settlements are shitting on the Palestinians.
My own country is Canada. What Evil thing are they doing?
Putting gravy on french fries!
OH THE HUMANITY!!!
Pere Ubu “Putting gravy on french fries!”
French fries? What’s that? You probably mean freedom fries.
Vets says “-I have read calls for Nuclear Holocaust that will kill all Israelis.”
Hmm. I’m pretty sure I’ve heard some of our elected and non elected officials threaten Iran and even Syria with Atomic weapons. I guess that makes ‘em Anti-semitic as well since Arabs (if not Persians) are also Semites.
I for one am disgusted by the ugly anti-semitism disguised as criticism of Israel rampant on Common Dreams.
dcbeltway, Read what I wrote. I did not say all criticism of Israel is anti-semitism. However the above posting by vets puts my comments in perspective. If you think that the anti-semitic left is not using the israeli palestinian issue to disguise their Jew hating rhetoric on a regular basis, you’re wrong.
Jaalle-John McCain’s little youtube fumble on changing the Beach Boys “Barbarann to Bomb Iran” comes to mind.
http://tinyurl.com/3atk9f
Persians are not semites though.
Of course I am equally disgusted by the hatred of Arabs, Persians and Muslims I see posted on commondreams often thinly disguised as supporting Israel Adamsslp. It goes both ways believe me.
Also at least people in Israel are allowed to criticise their government without having their heads cut off. At least in Israel, Palestinians are allowed to sue in court (and often will). At least in Israel, Arab citizens are allowed to vote for representatives to the government who are allowed to criticise the government in front of the Knesset, to the applause of some Israelis who agree with them. Also, would the Palestinians in the West bank let Amira Haas live among them if she wasn’t so critical of her own government.
Just as in the EVIL USA, the EVIL Israelis let their citizens say whatever they want. And many Israelis criticise their government. Where do you see criticism of the Moslem countries in their media other than that they aren’t doing enouph to destroy Israel.
No Beltwyadc, It doesn’t go both ways. I’ve not said anything hateful regarding arabs. I’ve only pointed out the anti-jewish remarks of pointed headed little dweebs like you.
It’s time to just call it what it is, “Auschwitz”.
Adamslp - Not all the commenters in CD who criticize Israel are anti-Semites.
Some of them are good people, who object US expansionist policy. Their strong biased critic of Israel (While ignoring Israel’s enemies far greater atrocities) is derived from the fact that Israel is the darling of the USA in the middle east.
See hatred and ignorance of Muslims I rest my case. Not only that you resort to ad homein attacks. Obviously you have never watched Al Jazeera where Israeli Jewish leaders are often invited to debate on live telivision with Arab Muslim counterparts. Al Jazeera English is even more revolutionary.
By not condemining the sewage being dumped on Palestinian Arabs you are furthering hate and you know it! You’d rather distract everyone with other issues.
By the way will a marriage between a Palestinian Muslim and an Israeli Jew be recognized by the Israeli state? These marriages do happen on occasion and they are not recognized by Israel. Does the Israeli state recognize coverts to Judasim who are reformed Jews? I think not Israel only recognizes converts who are orthodox. Does the Israeli state allow Palestinians to travel freely without checkpoins and permits? Can a West Bank Palestinian simply cross in Gaza without going through these? Land owned by Jews is redeemed land and land not owned by Jews is considered unredeemed under the law. Sephardic Jews are routinely discriminated against in Israel compared to their Ashkenazi counterparts.So don’t lecture to me on Israeli freedoms they are a mirage.
Discrimination against Palestinians in Israeli schools:
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/israel2/
vets…
You Wrote:
“I also don’t agree when comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. This type of comments should be dismissed as either Holocaust denial or ignorance.”
There making these comparisons easier and easier. Pay attention. They are putting walls around Palistinian comunities much like the Nazi’s did. The new “Auschwitz”. All of Isreal should be ashamed.
your right on the don’t vote for Clinton hye hopes.
but im afraid Obama isn’t much better. As for his stance on Israel i don’t know and he hasn’t posted it on his website. But i do know the his plan for “ending the war in Iraq” involves keeping permanent bases for counter terrorism operations (which is why i say “end” not end.) Also he plans on ending the war not by leaving but by increasing the military spending and (im not sure about this detail but have heard it from several aquaintances maybe someone reading this can give back it up) reinstituting the draft. He also supported the US backed preemptive invasion of Somalia by Ethiopia last winter.
then there is Edwards, sure he says on his website that the wants to cut off funding and end the war, so they why did he sighn off on the military budget in 2003/4/5 and maybe more but i can’t find it, and voted for homeland security.
just gotta chime in here cuz clinton, obama, and edwards are all desperate for the anti war vote and try to get it with half truths and b.s. websites but we can’t be fooled into another war monger president like clinton #1. Dennis Kucinich is the one who we can trust. He has the voting record, clean financing, and the mainstream media is terrified of him (must be good.) Vote KUCINICH!
These people are without a vestige of shame. And when you criticize Israel, its American Quislings scream anti-semitism. One would have thought that their own experiences in Nazi death camps would have taught them some humility in dealing with others. But the idea that one is a member of a group that has a special covenant with god doesn’t allow for humility.
There needs to be a total, worldwide boycott of everything coming out of Israel, including an ibntellectual boycott.
LMAO “There needs to be a total, worldwide boycott of everything coming out of Israel, including an ibntellectual boycott”
Guess you started that boycott already did you?
As I have posted before, the Wall will make the separation between Palestine and Israel permanent. If the Palestinians aren’t willing to deal, they are going to lose everything they have left and be barred from Israel forever. Already their jobs there have been replaced by foreigners from other countries and new Israeli immigrants. The future for them has to be peace on fair terms with Israel or poverty till their host countries, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan, decide they are human beings with rights to citizenship there.
Progressives that call for a boycott on Israel simply are no longer able to tell right from wrong. Palestine is in a continual state of war with Israel and they target women and children without compunction. Israel responds and the cycle continues, but the war started with Palestine and it needs to end there. Palestine can have peace any time it wants, but the terms will get worse and worse and worse with time. If you want to end the violence, call on the Palestinians to deal honestly with Israel while they still can.
Hang in there Vets. I don’t agree with you on a lot of things, but you are right on the money on this issue. You are thoughtful and aware of history.
how about, give shalom a chance? I’m all for and about shalom…Israel invented the word, shouldn’t they use it?
Also, it’s one thing to report that Israel is doing the above, however, why is it anti-Semitism to do something about it?
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Israel has more UN weapons violations than any other Middle Eastern country. We should do something about that.
Goose 2:
You seem to have a lot of time on your hands.
Sorry about my spelling of “intellectual.” ‘Twas but a typo.
The problem is not a perpetual war by the Palestinians. It’s that Israel launched a perpetual pogrom against the Palestinians 40 years ago.
Dcbeltway,
Holly shit! I’ve just watched the clip, I find it disturbing. This McCain guy is senile.
“would a marriage between a Palestinian Muslim and an Israeli Jew be recognized by the state of israel?”
I hope the hypothetical marriage is not between a Jewish Man and a Muslim Woman. Could be a problem……
DJ_DiaLogic - When you compare the West bank to Auschwitz, there are only two possible logical conclusions:
A).You think that in the holocaust, all that the Nazi did is killing some 5000 Jews, most of them armed militant, during asymmetric fighting which also killed some 1200 German. Grab some land from some Jewish communities, and built some faces and walls that put constrains on Jewish travel.
In this case I can safely calls you Holocaust denier.
B) You think that Israel is conducting mass executions of millions of Palestinians in extermination camps, Gas chambers, Furness etc. Which should have killed by now ~ 90% of Palestinians.
In this case I can safely say you are an ignorant fool.
Which one you are? A. or B? That is for you to answer.
Vet,
Thanks for the posting.
Well here you are telling me how “Not all the commenters in CD who criticize Israel are anti-Semites.” Immediately after you post that we get:
1. Palestinian-Israeli marraiges are not recognised by Israel.(I guess he doesn’t know that in Saudi Arabia Non Muslim men are forbidden to marry moslem women. Or practice their religion, or own land, etc.
2. Israeli freedoms they are a mirage. Your examples are assinine.
Does the Israeli state recognize coverts to Judasim who are reformed Jews? Israel is a Jewish State. It is not a pleuralistic society like the United States, but citizenry are accorded equal rights. Every state has the right to set whatever immigration policies it see fit for its national interests. Stop holding Israel to double standards wherever you can find them.
3. They are putting walls around Palistinian comunities much like the Nazi’s did. The new “Auschwitz”. Wow!
4. And when you criticize Israel, its American Quislings scream anti-semitism. So now we are traitors to America because we defend Israel from the same people who really do hate America.
5 Israel launched a perpetual pogrom against the Palestinians 40 years ago
I guess your defense of these good people who only object to US expansionist policies just flew out the window.
Anyway, you keep up the good fight. As for me, I’ve made up my mind that you can’t reason with people who hate us. Even if you smack them over the head with it, they just keep getting up like zombies and like zombies they have no minds of their own. The only country they hate more than Israel is their own.
Shalom/Salaam
How many Jews have been invited back to the land the Arabs forced them off of?
I am sorry the United States has kept the Jews from retaliating to Palestinian war as they should. Palestin is the world’s whine capitol
Stop comparing Israel to the Nazis!
Israel is in a political struggle with the Palestinians, they are not exterminating them.
While Israel is at fault on many levels, it has no extermination camps, it performs no scientific experiments on innocent children, it doesn’t make furniture out of Palestinian skins!
Got it??
GET REAL… and find real solutions instead of making ridiculous statments because your romantic view of the world is tainted by a political conflict.
If we talk about demonizing, it is Israel which is constantly demonized by extremely narrow views no different than the Christian fundamentalists who support the settlment funding. People here are as ignorant, but calim to be “intellectuals” or “Peace demonstrators!”
Review your history before you claim that Israel is not interested in peace. It is just easy to identify with the obvious victim. you all need your villain.
I think King said it best in hisA Time to Break The Silence speech:
.” Increasingly, by choice or by accident, this is the role our nation has taken, the role of those who make peaceful revolution impossible by refusing to give up the privileges and the pleasures that come from the immense profits of overseas investments. I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin…we must rapidly begin the shift from a thing-oriented society to a person-oriented society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, extreme materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered.”
We do really need a revolution of values in this day and age of decadence. The lack of compassion for the suffering of others is immense. We can never overcome all the challenges of the future unless we take a good hard look at ourselves. We must take responsibility for our part in all of this. No man or woman is an island. We all have an effect on the welfare of others.We must be whole as individuals first before we can be whole cities or whole nations. No matter how you slice it it starts with each and every one of US.
Aladdin:
“Israel is in a political struggle with the Palestinians, they are not exterminating them.
While Israel is at fault on many levels, it has no extermination camps, it performs no scientific experiments on innocent children, it doesn’t make furniture out of Palestinian skins!”
No, actually they are exterminating them where they live instead of wasting good American$$$ for such things as camps. Besides, the Palestinians have their own refugee camps instead. Makes it easier to bomb them.
“If we talk about demonizing, it is Israel which is constantly demonized by extremely narrow views no different than the Christian fundamentalists who support the settlment funding. People here are as ignorant, but calim to be “intellectuals” or “Peace demonstrators!”
Review your history before you claim that Israel is not interested in peace. It is just easy to identify with the obvious victim. you all need your villain”
So, who’s claiming victimhood here?
Maybe you should get real instead.
I have been paying attention to this conflict since before the 1967 war and all I can conclude is that the Jews have become the Nazis, just like we in America have become the USSR and everyone else we were supposed to fear back then.
PS… my grandfather was a rabi.
Just read all of the comments, wow!
Glad I stayed off of this one. I’ll wait and read the rest.
Guess I will say, the truth is always the perfect defense___ and the best argument. Like beauty, sometimes the truth is in the eye of the beholder and sometimes it is so very obvious. There are many truths posted in the comments here, and some are diametrically opposed.
been out, here now, read posts, say this:
Semite refers to Arabs, Aramaeans, Jews, and many Ethiopians.
Anti-semites, please inform us which of these particular sub-groups you are reviling. I would hate to blindly hate someone by mistake.
“our oil supply in the Middle East” — my favorite line so far today.
Yes, there are a lot of news items about Israel and its not so friendly neighbors. I would much rather bring your attention to Zimbabwe, the land of beautiful people who have no future because the government took it away for themselves.
But Israel has nukes (Zimbabwe has nothing, now) and Israel can trigger WWIII, which might end civilized life on Earth.
The USA-Israel bond can also be seen historically as another instance of big country-small ally - without even bringing religion into it.
Ancient Athens lost her empire because of allies.
The last Kaiser supported Austria-Hungary and World War I destroyed Imperial Germany when the war got out of control, as wars tend to do.
Allies can be more trouble than you’d expect.
locust - true that Semite refers to Arabs, Aramaeans, Jews, and many Ethiopians.
However, language is something that evolve in time.
Anti-semites these days has evolve to have somewhat narrower meaning than the straight forward translation.
If you have been living on an alien planet for the past 200 years - here is a link that can help you understand what most people these days are ferering too when someone uses that word:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Anti-semites
Vets and Adamslp think the CD has an agenda?? Never mind that CD is more or less a traditional media agregator.
“…disgusted by the ugly anti-semitism disguised as criticism of Israel rampant on Common Dreams.” S/he needs to take this up with the writer of this article.
Anyways, this whole Israel stuff is just so incredibly old as time: violence begets violence begets people who have no shortage of rationalizations and justifications for violence and more begetting of violence and justifications ad nauseum. It’s a constant, chronic downward spiral perpetuated by both sides. neither side has the guts to stop it.
When criticism of Israel includes terms like “Nazi”, “genocide” or “Holocaust”, I know with certainty that I can dismiss the author as either anti-Jewish or a historical dunce. It saves me the trouble of reading on.
On the other hand, there are rational and valid ways to confront Israeli missteps and brutality without that ridiculous hyperbole.
Israel is an imperfect state trying to survive while surrounded and vastly outnumbered by hostile nations which are monarchies and/or theocracies, most of which are bent on its destruction. When I disagree with Israel’s methods, I’m certain that a large percentage of Israelis will also publicly disagree, forcing accountability and policy
changes. Try that in Gaza, Syria, Iran or Egypt and see how far you’ll get.
Although I don’t condone many actions by the Israelis, I also don’t know how I would behave under the constant threat of Katushas and suicide bombers after forty-five unrelenting years since Fatah was formed. It must certainly result in
frayed nerves and ethical missteps for any society and government.
My own country is Canada. What Evil thing are they doing?
Developing oil sands and selling the oil to the United States.
UtahRaven - CD, like any other media, has an agenda.
I never said though that CD’s agenda is anti-semitism. It is not.
It is however, a biased agenda that over criticize Israel, and under critisize everyone else (perhaps with the exception of the USA).
If you want to learn how the media works, I would recommend Chomski’s book “Manufacturing Consent”
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/105-6340237-2821246?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Manufacturing+Consent&Go.x=4&Go.y=4
jimm_barr - “My own country is Canada. What Evil thing are they doing?
Developing oil sands and selling the oil to the United States.”
What choise do we have? I don’t want to see through my office window M1A1 Abrams rolling down the street. Oil sands will flow to the states regardless.
B.T.W Did you know that according to NAFTA, Canada must sell at least 75% of its oil to the USA? or else…
jimm_barr - “My own country is Canada. What Evil thing are they doing?
Helping to strangle Haiti comes to my mind.
Jazzbone: Fuck off. You deserve to go to hell. I’m tired of being polite, it is just totally impolite when referrring to Israel or US policy toward Arabs, which is mass murder. Few Israelis are killed by non-Israeli Palestinians, and almost all of those are killed because they willingly participate in a a campaign of murder for the sake of stealing land and political domination.
I don’t hate Jews who believe their God told them not to kill. I do hate those who believe that killing for financial gain is proper, and those who support them; sfter all the fallout may kill my kid.
To those who object to my language, consider the consequences of what is going on. And to jazzbone and others who agree with him: FUCK YOU YOU DESERVE TO ROT IN HELL>
To set the record straight I am not from Canada, it is vets that is from Canada. I am from USA.
To vets –> I’m not sure how it is that you are being forced to develop oil sands and sell it to the US. Just because NAFTA says that you must sell 75% to US doesn’t mean you have to develop the stuff. And as far as I know it was Canada’s choice to sign NAFTA with the US, so how come now it you have to do whatever you do?
So I say it is evil and it is evil for Canada to produce it and evil for the US to buy it.
But this is a discussion of the evil being done by Israel, so lets have this conversation on some other forum.
Reading these comments reminds me seeing a shit fight in a honkey tonk bar and grill on a hot Saturday night during a full moon. Glad you guys aren’t all in the same room together.
gde - “Fuck off … Israelis are killed by non-Israeli Palestinians, and almost all of those are killed because they willingly participate in a a campaign of murder for the sake of stealing land and political domination.”
Swearing, and usage of curse language is the least of your problems. The biggest concern however is the accurancy of what you say.
Here are statistics from the last Intifada.
http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties.asp
Let’s see if it is true what you have claimed that the majority of Israeli casualties are people who “willingly participated in a campaign of … bla bla bla….”
Total number of Israeli security forces killed by Palestinians: 320
Israeli civilians: 704
Foreign Citizens: 53
Israeli minors: 119
Total of Israeli non-combatant killed by Palestinians: 823
So you see - Who is posting lies?
Also not all 320 Israeli security people were willingly participated in what you describes as “campaign of murder for the sake of stealing land and political domination” Some of them were just soldiers being lynched for the crime of making the wrong turn, or similar navigation error. Some were fighting for their lives, or the lives of their families.
gde - Don’t sweare and lie in order to promote your hate agenda.
The truth will set you free. Free information is on my side.
gde - here is a list of all 233 members of the Israeli security forces who were killed by Palestinians within the occupied territoris.
http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties_Data.asp?Category=7
Please go through the names, and how they were killed.
Are you still convinced that all of them “willingly participate in a campaign of murder for the sake of stealing land and political domination.” ???
And what about this list of Kids which were killed by Palestinians within Israel?
http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties_Data.asp?Category=16
Was the 1 years old baby also willingly participate in a campaign of murder for the sake of stealing land and political domination???
Freedom of information - to fight lies and hatered…
“There are more tears shed over answered prayers than over unanswered ones.” Nothing exemplifies this better than the self-degradation of the state of Israel, and the self-destructive complicity of its fanatical adorers living outside its borders.
Israel’s reputation in the US is declining only a little less rapidly than America’s reputation in the world. Which means that the percentage of global citizens who regard Israel as anything like a moral state is pretty small. They’re all anti-semitic, of course.
The anti-semitic charge is lsing its bite mainly because the utter hatred of Israeliphiliacs for those who don’t share their psychosis is palpable. People compare it to the Third Reich because its soldiers routinely gun down children and old people, and it builds immense walls & incarcerates an entire people in the name of self-defense — and then they wildly cry “How can anyone think Israel is the same???”
Dichterfreund,
OK, You are right. Building a fence that stop 80% of suiside bombers and save hundreds of lives is morally equivalent to building extermination camps with gas chambers that exterminate millions.
How could I be so blind to that truth…
So, after all this we find:
1) Every person and every nation state sometimes does things that other will disagree with.
2) Only people and nation states with a system of liberty and justice will allow for the open disagreement and dissent, without fear of immediate and inappropriate retribution.
3) The comparison of the actions of Israel and the Nazis loses validity in both methodology and quantity.
4) No one has asked or answered this question, so I will: If the United States neighbors’, Canada and Mexico were hostile to it and had the means to destroy it, (Mexico because we took Texas away from them and are ready to deport their citizens who are here illegally) and over the course of 50 years killed 35,100 noncombatants (civilians) from the United States within the confines of the US and the other territories occupied by the US, would the US be justified to defend itself and/or go into Canada or Mexico to find and destroy those who perpetrated this? I do not think for a moment anyone would say “no”.
5) Within any system there are extremists of all stripes. The majority of those within the system do not hold extremist views. All the vituperative talk, all the manufacturing consent is drowning out that majority (thank you Spiro, “the silent majority”). IT is the duty of these non-extremists on all sides of the argument, to join forces on a grassroots level and drown out the extremists within their groups.
THEN, maybe we can work together on solving the real problems and making the lives of all better. Have a great Wednesday, let’s see which Israel article will be posted today, so we can all do this again.
A better comparison would be why the United States, Canada, and Mexico still short thrifts Native Americans when it comes to medical and social services, property titles, economic development, and political rights?
I also don’t think the majority of Americans today (in your hypothetical world) would condone occupation of Mexico for 70 years as a ‘final solution’ to Mexican ‘terrorism’ or that there would be a majority of Americans that would go along with or be ignorant of, (as they did in the pre Civil War 19th century America with the exception of many abolitionists and anti-imperialists like Henry David Thoreau), the lies the United States government used at the time regarding the historical border of Texas to justify invading and occupying Mexico.
Dougnwagner:
I did not advocate, in my hypothetical world, the occupation of Mexico or Canada. The results of either of these would be analogous to the West Bank/Gaza issue. I stopped short of that because we would be doing this, instead of working or living or playing, for another 24 hours. My point is that with an equal amount of provocation, and a proportionate amount of civilian deaths from terrorist acts, no one would say to the US “don’t defend yourself, don’t go after those who did it.” Look, until George got us mired in Iraq, the world was behind us finding and brginging to justice those responsible for “just” 10% of that number.
To clarify, I believe that there should have/could have been a way to, and the time is long past because of the manipulation of the players and pawns, make a good, healthy decent neighbor partner of the West Bank and Gaza in the region. Economics alone could/would have driven it. The raw labor in these areas was used by Israel to do construction, man factories, staff hotels and do all sorts of work that Israelis no longer wanted to do (BTW: now people from the Far East, like the Phillipines, are working at these jobs, and making a good living). Movement across borders brought jobs, money, a better standard of living for the “silent majority” of Palestinians. It was not Israel that stopped this economic exchange. Calling for intifada and forcing their population not to work, not to exchange, not to participate, ended this. Granted not all Palestinians shared in the economic excahnge, and not all the exchanges were fair, but nothing is ever “all” in anything.
Should their be a continuing “occupation” of these lands? Only if the people in these lands were to act as my hypothetical Mexicans and Canadians, committed to destruction and terror, committed to a Canadian-Mexican border in Kansas.
No, the “occupation” has damaged Israel financially, morally and spiritually. Just as we, in the US, would have put the last four years resources to better use, to better us, to better the world, instaed of what we have done, the mess we have created, the national treasure squandered, so too Israel could have been doing the same thing, but not with a loaded gun at it’s head.
So this “highly intelligent” Vet person is accusing CD of being anti-semitic. I wonder if this brainiac Vet even knows that “Semite” refers to both Jews and Arabs. So how can one be anti-Semitic if they are pro-Palestinian (Arab)?
I really wouldn’t attribute a hell-uv-a lot of credibility to anything Vet has to say.
When the “occupation” by Israel turns filthy. Israel by its occupation is not spreading peace. It is spreading its sewage in other peoples living area. I don’t think that is something you can consider a step forward. I don’t think economic sanctions should be punitive, however I think if we make financial contributions to Israel they should be contingent on fixing problems like the one stated in the article. Walls are not a solution…look at the great wall of China as an example.
Adamslsp
Everything I stated is true about Israel’s treatment of Arabs and Jews and you can’t argue back so you point the finger at Saudi Arabia. Everyone knows Saudi Arabia is corrupt and is not a democracy and is regressive and harsh when it comes to human rights. Other Arabs and Muslims constantly criticize the Saudis and I have held many a conversation about that subject. However, Israel as you all keep saying is a democracy and we hold democracies to higher standards. The Arabs live under dictatorships so its hard to hold dictatorships accountable especially when they oppress their own people who despertly want true democracy. We also hold Israel to a higher standard because bilions of our tax dollars goto Israel. As we Americans work so hard for our money we expect something in return and that is peace and equality between Israel and the Arabs. As an American I am furious my hard earned cash goes to this brutal, disgusting, inhumane occupation. Its not a conflict that would imply that both sides recieve billions in US military aid when only one side gets US military aid. No its an occupation.
Adamsslp by the way just because I argue intelligently and with sound research does not make me a man. Its misgoynist for you to assume that automatically. I see this from men all the time on commondreams and other forums–they automatically assume my gender is male. They are shocked to learn that I am a woman. Don’t make assumptions.
Vets does have a point though about the fact some posters do use anti-semitism. On that I agree with him and I can understand why he feel sensitive about this subject. This does not help the cause for Palestinian equal rights and human rights people. You can criticize Israel’s gov’t without lacing your posts with this sort of thing just as you can criticize any country’s gov’t without lacing in hatred and racism towards its people.
You will find out that Israel is probably ranked as one of the top 50 best behaved countries in the world
That MIGHT be true. I have my doubts! But if so its only because of size and population numbers.
Peter Sirois -”So this “highly intelligent” Vet person is accusing CD of being anti-semitic”
Where exactly did I accused CD of being “anti-semitic”? I never said so nor do I think so.
Now who is the “highly intelligent”???
So, but who’d like to see vet and his friends comment on a reversed situation when Jews were dragged out of their houses (or not) by Palestians before they ran it over with a Caterpillar just to make room for a sewage pipe to drown Jews and their belongings in raw sewage.
I’d wager the urgency of the Sudan situation would suddenly diminish.
But unlike Jews uprooting Palestinians and poisoning their land that reversed situation is ofcourse entirely unthinkable. And to not only think that is not wrong, but should be shielded from criticism by any means possible either related or unrelated is far beyond my comprehension.
Furthermore there is someone who thinks a Jewish state is somehow identified with the right of self-determination, meaning ofcourse the denying that same right to Palestinians.
The Jewish state is something entirely different from all other nations, it is by definition an Apartheid-state because your rights as an Israeli citizen are based upon your Jewishness.
An Israeli state wherein a citizen’s rights are not defined by whether they are Jewish, but whether they are Israeli fits the world order and might be sustainable. A Jewish state is not, it is by (it’s) definition a source of inequality and injustice and it will not last, because in the end it is incompatible with the human spirit itself.
Vet
You are so correct. The words anti-semitic were used by Adamslp when he declared you to be the Man. Of course Adamslp read between the lines and correctly perceived your calling CD as anti-semitic in spirit, if not in word. You seem to be very adept at “playing” with words. Are you by any chance a neo-con or just a run-of-the-mill Nazi? Word games have always been their forte.
Wow, I might be wrong, but it sure looks like the ADL is monitoring the stories and discussions on Common Dreams.
Passion and support of individual religious practices is fine, but labeling critics of the government of Israel as anti-semitic is wrong.
Religion and patriotism are time tested means of rallying citizens around powerful leaders who wish to gain support for unseemly policy. The idea that ‘we will never let this happen again’ does not justify the Israeli government’s treatment of Palestinians, regardless of the experience of European Jews in the early 20th century.
The term for the acts of marginalizing or eliminating food and water sources; for confiscating land and water resources; for introducing settlers, is genocide. It may correctly be applied to Israel with regards to its continued treatment of Palestinians, in violation of international law.
Since the inception of the state of Israel, successive governments of the country have chosen to violate international law and flaunt UN sanctions, all with the support of the US government. If they really wanted peace, there’d be peace. Instead, it seems that they want other peoples’ resources, and that they’re willing to kill to get ‘em.
Don’t waste your time with comments that I’m anti-semitic. Spend that time working for justice, and maybe you’ll see peace in your lifetime.
How? Maybe there’d be a greater sense of justice if there were fewer contradictions (less hypocrisy) evident in comparisons of policies concerning Israel and other countries in the region that seem to completely depend on whether or not a country is a client state of the USA. For example, it’s ok politically for Israel to have nuclear power, but not Iran. Or, it’s ok for Israel to commit acts of genocide but not Sudan.
Maybe it’d help international relations in the Middle East if Israel signed the Non Proliferation Treaty and allowed international inspections of their “secret” nuclear facilities.
Yes, Virginia, zionism IS racism. To condone Israel’s behavior you would have to be either a nazi or a moron.
It surprises me none at all that so many liberals or “progressives” who post here have cheerily sidestepped the core of the issue, which is that no one has ever bothered to explain why the Palestinians have had to answer for the crimes of European anti-semitism since 1947. Obviously the Arab emirates and elite of the Arab nations have sold them out, after all, many of them are business partners of the United States, so their inability to work out an arrangement for Palestine is hardly surprising.
After all, the same U.S. citizens who rationalize the crimes of the Israelis when they talk about Palestine, can blithely turn around and continue to expect black voters to support the democrats, who have been a wholly unreliable ally to the black communities of this country for decades now. But here at home, it’s perfectly acceptable for there to be a black petty boojwahzee that helps America kick us in the teeth. Over there, of course, the Arab elite who betray the Palestinians are a problem. Here at home, of course, black leaders who betray are “practical politics”.
The bottom line is that apologists for United States imperialism, and the United States corporate state, are traitors to the idea of a mass democratic resistance, are afraid of what will occur when such a movement does begin to assert itself, and will side with their running dogs the democrats when the real shit starts to come down, and believe you me, with or without the people who post on sites like this, the need for a mass democratic resistance is real, both in Palestine and here at home. You can either start taking the problem seriously, or you can get the hell out of the way. It really matters very little to the rest of us who know what has to happen, both here at home and abroad.
Peter - No, I’m not Neo-Con. I appose war.
I don’t think CD is anti-semic in spirit.
The content of the articles published in CD are NOT racists.
My problem with CD is with the volume and the focus, not with the content.
c farris - “Yes, Virginia, zionism IS racism. To condone Israel’s behavior you would have to be either a nazi or a moron.”
Let’s examin the dictionary definition of Zionism:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/zionism
I don’t know about Nazi, But it seems to me that you are the moron.
I’m Zionist, and I’m far less racist than you c farris, who think Jews are the only nation who have no right for self determination.
I have questions. Why do all my jewish friends in the US hate the way israel is handling things? We all love talking up this stuff!
How much oil is under the Palestinian land? There might not be any, I don’t know, do you?
I would rather look to see the conspiracy against any people than to argue like I’m there and know all about it when I’m not and don’t. A lot of you understand history very well. Well enough to understand that any crime against others is a crime against yourself and the rest of the world. History will repeat itself to a point and when the “Armageddon” thing happens, the earth warming, drought, flooding, a perpetual war, Israel growing to be twice its size (Shit we should be counted as israel now ,and we have it,Armageddon anyway, Israel owns our government) and whatever else the “scriptures” say, I’ll bet a lot of “Jesuss” will be born again (That way when the CIA tries to kill him he’ll live on) and they will say the same thing he said before. “Quit fighting! Or I’ll God damn you!”
Jesus won’t call you stupid like I will.
If I see one more luxury SUV bumper sticker sayin “In case of rapture this vehicle will be unmanned” (trite little selfish bastards) …..Im gonna bust their head with the bible, cuz “there is no harm in the bible”! And make a point! Violence begets violence!
Sorry I just had to…I always wanted to be a bible thumper.
Please put me in a catagory…please, I have no group to go by. I’m all alone… Calling all dumb for fighting a war instead of ending it. It takes two.
This is a good example of why Israel gets a pass on legitimate issues. The “anti semitic” branding iron comes out fast every time. So should we give Israel a pass on this one?
Absolutely not. If Israel is going to find a way to live in peace with their neighbors, they are going to have to do better than bulldoze through villages. Hopefully the Israeli Supreme Court may bring some reconciliation with Israel’s moderate, non terrorist Muslim neighbors.
Verb 1. appose - place side by side or in close proximity
” vets August 22nd, 2007 12:16 pm
Peter - No, I’m not Neo-Con. I appose war. ”
What do you mean?
Vets
I was in error. You appear to be both a nazi and a moron.
You invent new dictionary meaning to words, and when I say you are wrong, and bring reference from dictionary - I’m turned into a moron.
As for calling me a Nazi, I don’t know how to reply. It’s beyond absurd. Maybe you don’t know what Nazi is. There is a dictionary definition for that as well.
Remember children, when it comes down to name calling it proves you are not very bright and you don’t know how to get along with others. Bias works on closing oneself off from the reality others see. What we all see differently, and react to differently, is the same truth.
Israel has the technology to dump clean sewage. I don’t care whose land it is. Its an environmental disaster! If I shat on my neighbors yard, I would have to smell it. If I wanted to buy it in the future, I would be buying my own foul shit contaminated land. Meanwhile, I have a pissed off neighbor. That is so multi-national corporate policy like I could just punch you all who are arguing over semitism in the face for not noticing the obvious truth, and that wouldn’t get anyone anywhere! Would it?
Jungleboy exactly and good angle with the environment as this builds a bigger coalition. The environmental movement needs to start shouting about this one. Someone call them up we need the big environmental groups to defend the Palestinians right to a clean and healthy environment and the damn occupation is dirty literally!
Since Vets has helped us out with the dictionary on anti-Semitism, here is another that we should all see the definition of and then maybe talk about how to settle this conflict..the definition of the Arab-Israeli conflict.
http://www.gnmagazine.org/middleeast/
I think Israel should talk to Hamas about a peaceful settlement and quit using this fear of “Oh they want to destroy Israel” as a cop out.
The fact that both Israel and the US refuse to settle disputes with people that are mad as hell about this conflict that has been goin on for thousands of years is cowardly.
The friends who called me a dirty Jew when I was a kid in Cleveland were not Arabs and all those fights were only lessons for me that fighting over name calling or war talk threats is sick and childish but it is good business for the folks who run the war economy and even supported Hitler…like Prescott Bush and the Skull and Bones Gang.
I would like Isreal to begin to lead the way to peace and talk with Hamas and we can make a deal with Iran.
Just like the Sunnis in Iraq who changed as soon as the US showed them that they were tired of fighting them, things change.
If Osama is alive he will want to be tried in a world Court…along with Bush.
Until we learn to get the world to outlaw war Profiteering this race to the bottom will pick up speed.
Love, Jim
PS definitions are sometimes a way of New Speak.
the fact that the understood definition of Anti-Semite has ment only anti-Jew, is another reason for the Arabs to hate Jews because it assumes that arabs don’t count as Semites.
Lessons learned from the tolerance of Islamic Spain:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0822/p09s02-coop.html
Oh Sorry,
the Dictionary link is http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Arab-Israeli%20conflict
I’m depressed, I thought Common Dreams was a site where we could learn from one another, thought we were all on the same team. Silly me!
Jungleboy, bet you’d be a fun person to sit and have a couple of beers with. You’re smart too.
Jim Glover - I have no issue to speak with the Hamas. Nor do I ahree with every policy of the Israeli or the USA governments.
Just one question - What do you think they will want to talk about?
Good on you dc. And Vets give us your UN source for israel coming into tjhis top 50 so we can all have a good laugh. And we can check on more up to date reputable sources too. And I can find dictionary definitions of Zionism as racist in essence. The UN said so and of course the incensed big broyher the US had that overturned with threats of removal of funding and also insisted that israel was made a member against mounting opposition using similar tactics. And how greatful the UN was to have such a respected member support its efforts. And yes about Israels concern for the poor people in Darfur ever since the recent year long publicity in a country with a very interesting recent history of suffering. Oil has nothing to do with it or the fact that the Chinese were scouring around seeking access to raw materials in competition. And it deflects the Israeli Zionist project at a time when people are beginning to awaken to its poisonous tentacles reaching the Sudan and the not to be forgotton Somalia. It is only cooperating with big brother as usual doing services it has become expert at and outdoing the Nazis in its invidious and and persistence in persecution and terrorism. There is no other fairminded way to describe whart is being perpetrtated against the Palestinians native to that land than a slow genocide and international law may well see it as such. It is not a matter of the number of people killed but rather the method slow over time leading to the inevitable unless arrested in time of the extermination of a people as a people lost in space and dispersed. It is a valid proposition and is being done with the eyes of the world unable to avert its eyes to appease such unbelievably inhuman behaviour. The State must desist or face an upsurge of anger against its occupants and their bankers.
I’m aware of people like Rick rsterling who make their stand and protest in a reasonable manner open to suggestions from the point of view of compromise and justice. Let’s be sure Rick. There is no compromise with a facist racist entity. it must be brought down within through its own citizens or forced to desist from without through being sanctioned and boycotted till it resumes to lawful behaviour and compliance with international law. It is demonstrating over a long history every trait of the Nazism that was ever devised up to the Holocaust itself. In the same way as the USA couldn’t politically just nuke a few cities in Iraq iran Afghanistan Pakistan or wherever to gain control Israel just couldn’t blow away or deport all the Palestinians from the occupied territories. It has long assumed a supercilious, oneupmanship, racially based and arrogant control through military might terrorism (claiming itself to be the sole victim of this)fear and degredation while strangling the economy and rendering millions of Palestinians dependent refugees isolated, thirsty and hungry. It does all this while caliming to be terrorised as the post said with a relentless barrage of Katushas raining down upon it for over 40 years. What a load of cock and bull. Indeed rockets hit her, terrorist attacks and suicide bombers have attacked her and innocent israelis men, women and children have died and been seriously wounded. This is appaling enough. But her behaviour has been atrocious. The bare numbers don’t approach the terrible rreality of deportation and refugees in their miselable camps for well nigh 60 years. Give us the death figures Mr Vets sir of Palestinians through the first Intifada and before? Before the suicide bombers struck as a policy. On occupied land the Israelis terrorised a Palestinian population who became like Iraq’s resistance terrorists and all its laws arrests killings and so on became the fight against terrorism. It is all a lie. Israel itself is Terrorism personified and allowed to be so because America is either facist itself or has fallen asleep. Never can the sad truth of the American Indians demise be more graphically re-enacted that by its support for Israel. It must cut off now, almost too late, or be forever condemned by history and people everywhere of conscience. Cannot say we didn’t know. No more. America and Jews worldwide awake!
And very good point about Haiti and Canada with French fries and freedom fries too. What has happened to Canada in recent years? Your country used to be so respected and now its on the road to joining the ranks of the reviled, unlike New Zeeland. The pair of you were so admired for principled stances and independence. One left.
The time has come for the UN to revoke Israel’s charter.
Since it’s “creation” in 1948 it has caused nothing but chaos & brutality in the region.
The zionists didn’t come to be a part of the region, they came to dominate & usurp as much land as possible.
The zionist crimes are countless, starting with the propaganda that Jews are victims and Arabs/Muslims/Palestinians are rabid, unthinking, bloodthirsty terrorists.
I’ve come to this conclusion (about revoking their charter & disbanding their state) after reading numberous comments written by readers of Ha’aritz articles.
The racism & hatred of Israeli Jews is enough to make a KKK grand dragon blush.
This shitting on their neighbors reminds me of another article I read recently where a settlement diverted a Palestinian community’s water supply to fill their (the settlers) swimming pool & the water they sent back to the community was ~ you guessed it sewage ~ delivered straight to a Palestinian grade school.
These don’t seem like isolated incidents, they seem like Israeli policy.
The criminal zionist enterprise must be ended.
Hi Vets,
You asked what do I think Hamas would like to talk about.
Since we haven’t talked to them, they would have lots to say and I would listen and ask what they would want from us and Israel so that we could quit killing each other and improve the lives of everyone who is suffering from death and destruction and old hatreds.
That would be a start and I would be happy just to begin the dialogue and then the world would have a better idea of how to solve conflicts.
We could always go back to war but maybe we have reached a point where this war business can be put out of business.
Thanks for asking,
Jim
bellthecat - You:
- Deny the Jewish people the right for self Descrimination.
- Claims the Israel’s creation is a Racist Endover.
- Apply Double standard by Judging the Israel by different standard than any other Democratic state.
- Call for the destruction of Israel (The Zionist enterprize) (I wonder how exactly you plan to do that)
The Europen Monitoring Centur on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC) have a word to describe the likes of you.
To learn more read:
http://eumc.europa.eu/eumc/material/pub/AS/AS-WorkingDefinition-draft.pdf
I would not be surprise to find out if your are a KKK / Aryan nation member. You certenly hold the same world views.
Jim Glover - I wish you were the one leading the Hamas.
The shit flowing through the contemplated sewage channel is a perfect metaphor for how Israel has treated the Palestinians through forty years of occupation and for what Israel and its supporters have become.
bellthecat seems to know nothing about history and manages to actually REVERSE the facts.
He says “Since it’s “creation” in 1948 it has caused nothing but chaos & brutality in the region.”
However, five Arab states attacked Israel, not the other way around. They instigated two more wars during the next 20 years, not the other way around. Fatah began terrorist operations three years before the first settlement was built, not the other way around.
He then says “The racism & hatred of Israeli Jews is enough to make a KKK grand dragon blush.”
Yeah, sure, although he sounds like someone who ought to know.
Have you paid attention to large number of Israeli demonstrations by peace marchers? Protesters? Anti-Orthodoxy secularists?
Oh, BTW, how many Palestinians have demonstrated against terrorism?
Have you read the Arab and Palestinian books used to “educate” their children?
To quote one source, “Textbooks, from elementary through high school, are replete with strong expressions of hatred towards Israel, negation of its right to exist and praise for the struggle against it, as well as antisemitic expressions against the Jews.” NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
to jazzbone:
The Arab states have initiated only one war against Israel, the Ramadan war of 1973, and that only because Egypt and Syria were seeking to recover the land they had lost to Israeli aggression in 1967.
The Jew,s are the Hitler of the middle East. They know it America funds them and if you question thier behaver they play the holocaust card.
thomas j. hussey,
You said “The Arab states have initiated only one war against Israel, the Ramadan war of 1973″.
What happened to the 1948 “War of Independence” and the 1956 “Suez Campaign”?
The 1967 “Israeli aggression” (as you call it) resulted from Egypt closing the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping, an international Act of War.
Study of Palestinian Textbooks
November 1, 2001
by Prof. Nathan Brown, George Washington University
For Complete Study, see:
Democracy, History, and the Contest over the Palestinian Curriculum
A study by Prof. Nathan Brown, Georgetown University
In 1999 and 2000, I conducted research on the establishment of the new Palestinian curriculum by collecting documents, textbooks, and interviewing Palestinian educators. Since that time, I have continued the research by surveying new textbooks and following discussions of educational issues by Palestinian educators. This research was supported by a Fulbright grant through the United States-Israel Educational Foundation (USIEF) and another grant from the United States Institute of Peace (USIP). The conclusions of the research are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views either of USIEF or USIP.
My research—and the attached paper—focus primarily on the role of democracy in the new curriculum. Nevertheless, I could not ignore the international controversy surrounding Palestinian textbooks and the many claims that they incite violence and racial hatred. I was therefore surprised to find books that were far less incendiary than portrayed; most were perfectly innocuous.
Most accusations against the books are based on reports from the “Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace” (CMIP). Although that organization presents reports that are tendentious and misleading, few independent reviews have been conducted. Therefore CMIP reports–which seek to obscure rather than highlight the very significant changes that have been made–are not frequently challenged. I hope that my own review of Palestinian textbooks can assist those interested in a more impartial assessment.
General Background
Upon assuming responsibility over Palestinian education in 1994, the Palestinian Authority (PA) restored the Jordanian and Egyptian curriculum in their entirety as an interim measure. This included the use of books that contained sharply anti-Israeli and even anti-Semitic material. It is based on these books that the strongest charges have been levied. Criticisms of that decision are fair, but must be viewed in conjunction with the following facts:
* The PA determined from the beginning to replace these books and formed a curriculum development center to draft a new set of books. This decision came not as a response to international pressure but instead was a Palestinian initiative (though some international funding was available). The plan developed by that center has proceeded according to schedule.
* The PA issued a series of National Education books for grades 1-6 to supplement the Egyptian and Jordanian books while the new books were being written. Those books were devoid of any anti-Semitic or anti-Israeli material.
* Oddly, Israel allowed the offensive Jordanian books to be used in the East Jerusalem schools but barred the innocuous PA-authored books, probably fearful that use of the PA books would be an implicit recognition of sovereignty.
* The new curriculum is now going into effect. The first and sixth grade textbooks were introduced in 2000. The second and seventh grade books were introduced in 2001. Books for the remaining grades will be introduced two at a time until the entire school system has switched over.
In short, the PA should be credited with removing racist and anti-Semitic material from the curriculum, not for maintaining it. And international assistance has supported replacement of the offensive material, not its composition.
More specific comments on the new (2000 and 2001) books:
* History
The Palestinian books strive to create a strong sense of Palestinian, Arab, and Muslim identity in students. This dominates their treatment of history. Thus, they concentrate on trying to demonstrate a continuing Arab presence in Palestine. Though they do not deny a Jewish presence, they do not dwell on it. In Islamic education, the books have to confront Muslim-Jewish conflicts (in the early days of Islam) and Muslim-Christian conflicts (during the Crusades). The books clearly are partial to Muslims in b