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University Student To Plead Not Guilty To Terrorism Charges
A University student arrested preemptively before the Republican National Convention will be one of the first people prosecuted under a terrorism clause in the Minnesota Patriot Act since it was passed in 2002.
Cultural studies junior Max Specktor smiles Monday after a hearing for the RNC 8 at the Ramsey County Law Enforcement Center in St. Paul. Specktor, along with the rest of the eight, plans to plead not guilty to unprecedented terrorism charges. (Photo: Minnesota Daily)
Cultural studies junior Max Specktor is charged with conspiracy to riot in furtherance of terrorism.
Monday, Specktor's hearing was postponed until at least November.
Specktor and seven other defendants facing the same charge will be heard together, and face a maximum of seven and a half years of jail time.
The eight suspects, calling themselves the RNC 8, plan to plead not guilty to the charges, defendant Nathanael Secor said.
Max Specktor
As a housemate fried long strips of sweet potato in the kitchen, Specktor sat on the front stairs of his Minneapolis house and dwelled on the prospect of seven-and-a-half years in jail, and the guarantee of cost and worry from a yearlong trial.
Specktor, a graduate of Minneapolis South High School, got involved with activism by planning protests against the Iraq War.
"After doing that kind of work in high school, I was kind of burned out on trying to change something with a big protest," Specktor said. "I was getting into local community work."
He got involved with a now-closed Jackpine Community Center on Lake Street in Minneapolis, where many people were planning protests with the RNC Welcoming Committee, an anti-authoritarian activist group.
"The RNC, obviously I didn't want it to come to my town," he said. "I thought, ‘Wow, maybe this is a chance to learn some skills and build community.' "
The group, which typically fluctuated between 20 and 30 people, took inspiration from mass mobilizations from the "anti-globalization movement" of the late 1990s, like the protests that helped shut down the World Trade Organization's conference in Seattle in 1999.
"I got a lot of inspiration from that," he said. "Our movement, especially the radical anti-war and social justice, needs a big event to keep it going."
The RNC Welcoming Committee wasn't planning any illegal actions, Specktor said; instead they set up housing, meals and legal support for other protesters, some of whom might engage in civil disobedience.
"Basically, we provided the infrastructure for people to survive in the city while they're protesting," he said.
But authorities pointed to the group's website, which urged a strategy called "swarm, seize, and stay" that used civil disobedience to try to shut down the convention.
Civil disobedience, while illegal, can be traced back to the foundation of the United States and is very different from terrorism, Specktor said.
"[Civil disobedience is] consciously making a decision to disobey for a higher purpose," he said. "It's a time-honored tradition that we celebrate in our history books, the people in the civil rights era who sat in at the lunch counters and wouldn't get out of their seats."
Preemptive raids
The weekend before the protests, activists' houses, including Specktor's, were raided by the Ramsey County Sheriff's Department and other law enforcement agencies.
Six members of the RNC Welcoming Committee were arrested Saturday, Aug. 30, while Specktor and another man were arrested the following Monday morning - Sept. 1, the first day of the RNC.
Protesters had yet to unfurl the first banner during protests in St. Paul.
During raids, police said they found throwing-style knives, fireworks, a box containing gas masks and lock picking kits, according to the criminal complaint.
They also seized activist literature concerning the RNC, maps of St. Paul, paint and electronics, the complaint stated.
After Specktor's arrest, police found a backpack containing a plastic bottle of Mylanta, black gloves, and a paper entitled: "St. Paul and the RNC burn 9/1/08."
In Specktor's vehicle, police found a pry bar, two boxes of firecrackers, five assorted black helmets and a roll of unused caution tape, the police complaint stated.
The actions police and authorities took were ridiculous, said Ted Dooley , one of the lawyers representing the RNC 8.
"Anything is a weapon if it is used as a weapon," he said.
The Ramsey County Sheriff's department spokesperson did not return multiple phone calls requesting comment.
After the raids, Specktor was the only one of the RNC 8 who was held in the psychiatric ward of the Ramsey County Law
Enforcement Center, he said.
"I was in a cell by myself; the whole time I was only released for an hour to walk along this short hallway and make a few phone calls," he said. "I felt powerless, but I didn't feel threatened."
After three days, he was released after being charged with conspiracy to riot in furtherance of terrorism.
The Case
Bruce Nestor, president of the Minnesota chapter of the National Lawyers Guild said the terrorism charges trivialize real acts of violence and potentially violate the First Amendment.
"This is an attempt to criminalize political dissent," he said. "It has a chilling effect on anybody planning political activities."
However, University law professor Dale Carpenter said if the state can prove the RNC 8 had intent to commit violence, the state has a pretty good chance of winning the case.
The state doesn't have to wait for people to riot or endanger lives in order to make arrests, Carpenter said.
"If someone is threatening to punch you, a police officer doesn't have to wait until he actually punches you to arrest him," Carpenter said.
After lawyers obtained copies of search warrants, Welcoming Committee members discovered that the group had been infiltrated by law enforcement and paid informants for about a year.
Information obtained by paid police informants is often inaccurate or made up, Nestor said.
"There's a history of paid informants actually being provocateurs," Nestor said. "Meaning they commit illegal acts or encourage illegal acts to increase the value of their information."
During a raid on an unrelated house during the RNC, information provided by one of the FBI's informants was inaccurate, Nestor said.
The informant said there would be boxes of weapons delivered to a house in St. Paul, but the boxes turned out to contain literature instead, Nestor said.
"If that's one of the informers that the FBI is relying on, I have no more reason to trust the informers being used by the Ramsey County Sheriff," he said
Specktor said it was strange to realize people he'd worked with for more than a year were being paid by police.
"We went through all this organizing aware that we might be surveilled," he said. "It's kind of creepy when you find out who those people were."
Community reactions
Specktor said his friends, family and neighbors have been nothing but supportive.
"You might read blogs that say we're terrorists and people comment and say we should be hung up," Specktor said, "but my friends and everyone I've talked to since these events have gone down have had nothing but positive things to say."
Mordecai Specktor , Max Specktor's father and the editor of American Jewish World said he and Specktor's mother are proud of their son's activism.
"My wife and I are worried about Max; of course we don't want to see our son go to prison," he said. "We're glad that he's idealistic and that he has ideas about social betterment and uplifting people."
As a journalist, Mordecai Specktor said the media mostly failed to critically examine police claims about activists.
"In the case of the RNC 8, there's all these wild claims [in the police's complaint] of kidnapping delegates," he said. "Journalists should be investigating the case and finding where the truth lies; we're not just like the record and playback buttons on the tape recorder."
The arrests and charges facing the RNC 8 are designed to intimidate people from demonstrating, Mordecai Specktor said.
"We saw this dress rehearsal for the police state during the RNC," he said. "[It's] designed to make people nervous about articulating their views."
Gus Ganley , a University film student who was found innocent during his own trial for an arrest at a protest last year, said facing prison time for activism can interfere with relationships and self-esteem.
"The nature of this crime, it's a thought crime," Ganley said. "You're constantly thinking about it, constantly looking over your shoulder."
Ganley, a friend of Specktor's, said Specktor tries not to let the charges affect his life.
"With Max, I've noticed if anything he's more energized," Ganley said. "That just speaks to his character, that he's somebody with such a vast reserve of energy that he's able to tap into."
Specktor said he's trying to focus on the importance of his case as an educational tool.
"It might inspire people if we win. It might inspire people if we lose," he said. "If people see we're going to jail for their belief it's going to inspire people."
The price of losing the case would be balanced by this educational benefit, Specktor said.
"I'm not saying I want to go to jail," he said. "If you stand up for your beliefs and they arrest you for it, I don't think you should stop standing up for your beliefs."



71 Comments so far
Show AllI wish Specktor luck, and hope he outgrows the Matt Drudge look.
"After Specktor's arrest, police found a backpack containing a plastic bottle of Mylanta, black gloves, and a paper entitled: 'St. Paul and the RNC burn 9/1/08'."
________________________________
Mylanta? I assume they mean "anthrax-laced Mylanta", and just forgot to say so. Because who WOULDN'T get agita from being pre-emptively hassled and busted by domestic Imperial Stormtroopers?
It'll probably turn out that one of the police provocateurs lured the defendants into committing the necessary "overt act" to justify the raids and busts: playing "rock, paper, scissors".
It always comes down to the inevitable question: "WHOE'S TERRORISM???
This is all so ridiculous and totally creepy, but not surprising.
Max, if you read this, you are very inspiring! Our thoughts and prayers are with you. You are a great warrior (and yes, big brother, I mean that in a spiritual sense).
I am sure these days they would have considered Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. a terrorist too.
On a side note, not sure if this is the same house or not, but one house that was raided had a humanure composting bucket, and they took that too as evidence. It just goes to show where people's minds are: the cops thought it was a weapon, the house-mates were trying to compost all their waste and use it as a resource-taking responsibility for their own poop so to speak.
So, who's reality do you choose? Weapons or fertilizer?
I am on the fertilizer side! Keep strong Max!
Peace
Sunshine,
Your sentiments on behalf of Max Specktor are shared by many of us, including myself.
There are many good posts today in support of Max and the others who face bogus charges.
It is heartening and inspiring to witness such courage, Max.
Bill in Dubuque
The government is trying to instill terror in the general population by these farcical trials. It is committing terrorism on We The People, and is truly a tyrannical occupying regime. Cointelpro is here again and those individuals that worked as moles for the police state are traitors to the republic and democracy and it is they who should stand trial and be facing very long prison terms, along with any public official who ordered such action.
Whether dressed in white shining armor or black flack jackets, still Stormtroopers are the police. When the reign of terror that the imperial government is planning comes down upon you like an iron fist, how will you fight such tyranny?
What a waste of time: All you state-funded cops disrupting free-speech and so-called 'protesters' and you paid-informant losers.
There ARE more important things to be working on:
http://ClimateCodeRed.net ... http://ClimateEmergencyNetwork.org ... http://WakeUpFreakOut.org ... http://LifeAfterTheOilCrash.net ... http://PostCarbon.org ... http://EcoCityBuilders.org ...
End the racist, oil-looting wars in Iraq, Afganistan, etc. Dismantle the gangster resource-wasting military-industrial-corporate-media complex.
Where are the trolls?
Where are the people saying that our rights are NOT being taken away!
Perhaps they've all been taken away.
They are loyal to the party so they get to keep their rights.
civil disobedience = terrorism
That's the bottom line of this case. I would hope that a judge, or even a DA will toss it before it ever gets to court. But this is a notion that must be fought.
There is a long history of civil disobedience as a political tactic. Think for instance of the lunch counter sit-ins in the South during the 60's civil rights campaigns. I'm sure a racist southern prosecutor would have like to have been able to turn a 'tresspassing' charge into 'terrorism'. But fortunately, the law then didn't allow it.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
Actually, it's even more ridiculous,
"potential" civil disobedience = conspiracy to riot in furtherance of terrorism.
Conspiracy: An agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
Riot: A violent disturbance of the public peace by three or more persons assembled for a common purpose.
Furtherance: The act of advancing, or helping forward.
Terrorism: violent or destructive acts committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands.
In other words, the actions of the police at the DNC and RNC.
Here's some evidence that clearly demonstrates that the Denver police were committing "conspiracy to riot in furtherance of terrorism".
T-shirt anyone?
http://cbs4denver.com/investigates/t.shirts.dnc.2.823937.html
"The shirts were created and distributed by the Denver Police Protective Association, the union that represents most of Denver's 1,400 police officers."
"he said officers from other departments like Lakewood police and the Jefferson County Sheriffs Department have been clamoring for the shirts and have ordered dozens more. He said after the initial printing, there was so much demand he had to reorder more shirts."
Supreme Court denies Georgia inmate's death row appeal
If Troy Davis can be convicted of being black then
these students can surely be convicted of being patriotic!
Where is Patrick Henry?
This grotesque misuse of the Minnesota Patriot Act at the Republican National Convention is a variation on the doctrine of preemptive war, dangerously adapted and misapplied into the realm of civilian criminal law enforcement.
In Minneapolis, the police raid teams and the prosecutors need not wait until an act of civil disobedience has actually taken place, nor do they have to wait for wholly legal, nonviolent demonstrations to even begin before they start busting people. Instead, the government moves in to arrest and charge the host committee organizers preemptively - before most of the alleged coconspirators have even arrived in town - thus treating the defendants' Constitutionally protected, perfectly lawful exercise of First Amendment freedom of association as being predicate criminal acts.
All that remains is for a jury to decide whether each individual's abstract intent was to facilitate "riot in furtherance of terrorism", or else some other intended political purpose. Whoopee! Let's go have a trial! You can have your day in court, in the grand American tradition! Why, what could be fairer than that?
Clarence Darrow once famously remarked that at English common law, if two little boys went into a candy shop and stole a lollypop they would be guilty of petty larceny - a misdemeanor punishable by gaol. But if the same two little boys never set foot inside the store, but instead sat outside on the steps and just talked about stealing the candy, then they would be guilty of conspiracy - which is a felony that could send them to the gallows.
This same absurdity appears enshrined in the Minnesota statute: if trespassing or disorderly conduct by demonstrators is at worst a 90-day offense - and perhaps no such future incident may take place at all - you, dear citizen, can nevertheless get seven and a half years in prison just for offering to help out with the food and lodging.
Shades of the indictment and conspiracy trial of Chicago Eight after the '68 Dem convention police riot in Chicago.
Time to take the toys away from the boys.
Bill from Saginaw
So does every state have one of these "mini Patriot Acts?" I'm guessing most do, but I'd have thought Minnesota would not be one of them.
The best case scenario will be for poor Mr. Spektor to be convicted (and given a mild / token sentence by an enlightened judge) and then for the case to go up on appeal so the statute can be overturned in whole or in part. This will generate publicity for a repeal of the law by the legislature. I assume the Nat. Lawyer's Guild is repesenting the accused pro bono. God bless the Spektor family.
Great quote from Darrow.
Joe
The authorities in Minnesota should be prosecuted for state supported terrorism. Drop these despicable charges against these students NOW!
Charged with terrorism for giving a shit about the country. The new American way.
It has been 1984 ever since 9-11 and the right's theft of our basic constitutional rights. We need a revolution now. Thomas Jefferson said that we will need a revolution every 20 years to keep our freedoms. They are lost. Do we want them back?
This is the country you get if you vote either Republican or Democrat.
Right.
So if you're opposed to that kind of country, vote for someone who will never be elected.
Then toss some salt over your shoulder, say a brief prayer, and make sure not to step on any cracks.
So you admit that the dems and repubs have a strangle hold control over our government and that no one can ever beat them? Thus voting is totally a sham and meaningless? I agree...
But from where I sit you may as well try and fight, even if that means you aren't going to win. If your overall goal isn't, necessarily, to "win" then you can never be defeated.
Sometimes the purpose of fighting isn't to win, sometimes it is just to fight against what you know is wrong, regardless of the outcome.
Voting for a third party is just another aspect of this.
You never know what can happen.
And as someone once said, the only cause really worth fighting for is a lost-cause.
But again, it all depends on your perspective.
"Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the shadow"
I wrote:
"Right.
So if you're opposed to that kind of country, vote for someone who will never be elected.
Then toss some salt over your shoulder, say a brief prayer, and make sure not to step on any cracks."
Apparently I wasn't clear enough so I'll try to restate it:
Voting for a third party Presidential candidate to improve the country is about as useful as tossing salt over your shoulder to improve your luck.
Because in this election either 'McCain & Unable' or Obama & Biden will win.
You can help to select the President or you can let others decide.
It's up to you.
To Max,
Remember Pastor Niemöller
His poem (1976 version)
Original
Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.
Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.
Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.
Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Jude.
Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.
Translation
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out
I hope that you do not get jail time but as far as I am concerned you have already triumphed.
There is one thing we all can do:
BOYCOTT St. Paul, and tell the mayor, the Chamber of Commerce, and the DA about it. Call the sheriff, too; they seem to have been the chief villains there.
I'd guess they're stalling because they don't really have a case, and the charges will be dropped. But the more grief they get in the meantime, the better the chances of that. Don't forget the ones with the real power: The Chamber, and the DA.
(Sorry, you'll have to look them up, don't have that contact info any more.)
Oregoncharles
Good point -- and hopefully Garrison Keillor will help to publicize this miscarriage of justice (though it's a bit much to ask him to support a boycott of St. Paul, I suppose.)
And the evidence continues to pile up: We have been taken over by the Nazi's!
If the shit really starts hitting the fan, and there are major protests or riots (like for example if the rethugs steal the election and the record number of voters that turned out to vote for Obama get really upset), don't be surprised if the KBR concentration camps start filling up with "domestic terrorists."
Seriously, conflating civil disobedience (which is our constitutional duty) with "terrorism" is designed to scare the crap out of us and make us stay home.
Max -- You are AWESOME. May each and every American who loves this country and wants to cease witnessing its destruction do as you have done.
This is how it is now -- If you are a true Patriot and love this country -- you will be arrested. Its a big arm wrestle. I'm an optimist and while things may look bleak and hopeless for awhile, I believe we will WIN and we will rid this country of fascism.
Evil criminals want to lock up all good people. It's futile. WE WILL WIN because we won't give up on our country. Never. We are the true patriots defending her against all enemies -- domestic in this case.
Why are they only on the defensive?
They need to counter-sue.
No such this as a "counter suit" in criminal court. If that were possible, OJ would have been counter-suing the LA and Las Vegas police!!!
I admire the young Max and his friends for standing up for American principles. True patriots they are.
The Amerikan Police State thrives.
Max, you and your friends are the kind of "Peace Heros" that we need running this country - in sharp contrast to the "War Hero" that some people think deserves a try. Good on 'ya lads!
We should have scutinize3d the laws pass after 9-11 and removed all of those one that acuse people of terrorism. since the only terrorist are the Bush admin.
AldoinSF
There will be a fund raiser for the RNC 8 at the Black Dog Cafe in Lowertown, Saint Paul this Thursday night. If any of you are from the area and care about these people who are being terrorized by the American right wing establishment, you should come out and throw a few bucks in the hat for their legal defense. The bands Junkyard Empire and Pocket of Resistance will be playing music and there will be speakers and other guests as well. All of the money raised will go to the Cold Snap Legal Collective, who is providing legal representation for these folks and also to Food Not Bombs, who is providing nourishment.
wolf-wolf doesn't have to read -- he's a fart sme, er, a smart feller.
Poor Children...mean Republican Cops
Let them have their day in Court...I am not gloing to argue the case here...I'm not a Lawyer...but if what they were charged with is true...
and if they are TRULY calling it Civil Disobedience...then they have to be willing to accept their punishment
(By the way...you don't plead NOT Guilty if its Civil Disobedience)
SnowWolf, the real problem here is that these individuals, whatever they actually did, are being accused of terrorism. Terrorism is a word that should only be used in cases of actual terrorism, i.e. Oklahoma City. To label any and all protesters as terrorists is a dangerous step towards a fascist police state. But that is the goal of your neocon heroes, isn't it?
The RNC incidents are just a continuation of Cointelpro. By the way, Oklahoma City was most likely an example of State-sponsored terrorism carried out by government agents to build up the case for the threat of "domestic terrorism". I'll try to find some links as soon as I have time.
But...of course you see Wolf...the charge is NOT Civil D.
I guess SnowWolf likes to comment without reading the article. Right SnowWolf?
Read the article: they are not being charged with civil disobedience.
They are being threatened with seven and half years in prison for "conspiracy to riot in furtherance of terrorism."
The article notes Max Specktor "will be one of the first people prosecuted under a terrorism clause in the Minnesota Patriot Act since it was passed in 2002."
"Specktor and seven other defendants facing the same charge will be heard together, and face a maximum of seven and a half years of jail time."
The normal penalty for civil disobedience might be a night in jail, perhaps a week at most. This is different. If urging "civil disobedience" is the same as "conspiracy to riot in furtherance of terrorism" then throw Al Gore in jail for urging "civil disobedience" against coal plants.
Before you try to claim that their "civil disobedience" was actually going to be violent, consider that there has been zero evidence presented to support that claim.
Here is more from Bruce Nestor, President Minnesota Chapter of National Lawyers Guild:
"These charges are an effort to equate publicly stated plans to blockade traffic and disrupt the RNC as being the same as acts of terrorism. This both trivializes real violence and attempts to place the stated political views of the Defendants on trial," said Bruce Nestor, President of the Minnesota Chapter of the National Lawyers Guild. "The charges represent an abuse of the criminal justice system and seek to intimidate any person organizing large scale public demonstrations potentially involving civil disobedience, he said."
The criminal complaints filed by the Ramsey County Attorney do not allege that any of the defendants personally have engaged in any act of violence or damage to property. The complaints list all of alleged violations of law during the last few days of the RNC -- other than violations of human rights carried out by law enforcement -- and seeks to hold the 8 defendants responsible for acts committed by other individuals. None of the defendants have any prior criminal history involving acts of violence. Searches conducted in connection with the raids failed to turn up any physical evidence to support the allegations of organized attacks on law enforcement. Although claiming probable cause to believe that gunpowder, acids, and assembled incendiary devices would be found, no such items were seized by police. As a result, police sought to claim that the seizure of common household items such as glass bottles, charcoal lighter, nails, a rusty machete, and two hatchets, supported the allegations of the confidential informants."
oregoncharles is correct !
In addition to paying for the fascist pigs that were busting heads in St. Paul, US Homeland Security gave St. Paul money for the post-convention law suits they will be defending. If you are a US taxpayer, you are paying to defend the fascist pigs that were busting heads in St. Paul.
Although your vote at the polling booth doesn't count, your disposable cash and where you spend it is the ONLY vote that counts. Boycotts work when people believe in them and act upon them. Local chamber of commerces control local government and while the local politicians will not listen to you, they will listen to the merchants that arewhining because you are not supporting them!
Boycott St. Paul and any other venue that caves in to the neocon machine.
It's comforting to see how FEW of you kids are fooled by the "Imperial Stormtroopers". Heroes they are NOT!!
Remember about 100 years back, swine like they; shot, beat, clubbed, leered at, arrested, BURNED ALIVE,(Ludlow, CO.), held illegally all those who came before us and wouldn't "tow the line" for the arrogant elite that hold their chains, pat them on the head and coo at them, "job well done!...GOOD boy!"
Now hold that thought when they begin enforcing the new oppressive laws of the elite.
I wonder if their families and parents beam at them and call them their little "heroes"?
I wonder if they'll be given preferential treatment for spawning the dogs?
the heroes that shoot peaceful activists, then gather 'round their stew-pots and joke about the "cockroaches" they shot with rubber bullets, then dream of the day their handlers let them use REAL ones?
THEY along with their handlers, Are the home-grown terrorists. THEY are the lackeys/minions, lap dogs of the power structure stealing your rights and shitting on the constitution and the bill of rights. the next time some doughy Republican tells me what heroes they are, I'm gonna vomit on his shoes.
Viva Castro/Guevara/Chavez!
"conspiracy to riot in furtherance of terrorism."
WTF! Give me a freekin break! I thought I heard of them all! The Neo-Cons just keep making up the shit, don't they? Civil Disobedience IS NOT "RIOT", no matter how hard you spin it. These kids deserve a medal, not incarceration.
The Monster in the Castle
The Seattle Times/PI Sunday paper has a headline to the effect that the new "bailout bill" has about a hundred billion in pork buried in its additional hundred unread pages that the earlier one didn't have. That explains why the first one failed. It was not the protests of millions of Americans to their alleged representatives that doomed it. There was just not enough pork!
I watch what is going on today and it makes me think of the old Frankenstein movie. In the culminating scene, the villagers, frightened and impoverished by the depredations of the monster, storm the castle armed with pitchforks, scythes, and torches. Their aim is to drag the monster out, tear him to pieces, burn the pieces and scatter the ashes.
I fear that is the only way the United States might return to its Constitutional roots. The monster is in charge of the Constitution and the wealth of the nation. If the Constitution is not already destroyed, it is definitely buried in the dungeon of the castle.
What is needed is for hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people to be storming the castles of local, state and federal government. They will have to drag the current, entrenched government out of its castles, tear it apart, burn the parts and scatter the ashes. In theory, this could be done by the ballot, but the people are complacent and the government controls and plays games with the voting process.
The fallout from the latest misfeasance of government could conceivably cause the awakening of the American People.
Thomas Jefferson said, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
Perhaps, as hundreds of thousands of complacent, "middle class" American families lose their homes, their jobs, and begin to get hungry, they will rise up to attack the monster. If they have nothing more to lose, perhaps they will put their lives at risk to achieve freedom, just as Iraqis and Afghans are doing today, and as French, Norwegian and Balkan patriots did under Nazi occupation during WW-II, and as our forefathers did when they revolted against the English King George in 1776.
The main problem this time is that the current King George and his mentor, Darth Cheney, have been preparing for this for the past six or eight years. Posse Comitatus has been repealed and NorthCom is even now training troops to suppress civil dissent. With the stroke of a pen, numerous restrictive policies will go into effect under martial law. We will live in a country where Predator Drones will troll the skies, tracking GPS transponder chips planted on suspected patriots, so we will have homes and cars destroyed without warning.
The concentration camps have been built, the protocols for the handling and control of forced civilian labor is in place. No doubt Blackwater will feature heavily in this scenario, especially as camp guards. Martial law will predominate. People on the streets after curfew will be shot, or picked up and disappeared, groups of more than three will be arrested, and with surveillance equipment at its current state of development, it will not make much difference where you are, you will be detected and monitored.
This will put us in the same position as any people under occupation. (Occupation doesn't have to be foreign, it just has to be oppressive.) It will probably take years and thousands of lives of patriots to root out the evil which we have slept our way into.
On the other hand, we can continue to watch American Idol and Dancing with the Stars, interspersed with Football, Basketball and Baseball, bitch about the high cost and poor quality of food. Borrow what we can, or sell what we have to get through another month and sympathize with our neighbors when they lose their houses, or family members disappear in the night, and just hope it will all go away of its own accord, like a nightmare upon awakening. Believe me, it won't. History is not taught in any meaningful way anymore, but if you look, you can find this same scenario played out time after time over the past few millennia.
Rome, too, started as a Republic, then degenerated into a heavily armed Empire, kept its citizens pacified by a corn dole and lots of entertainment, and its military occupied by conquering foreign peoples. Eventually, it overreached itself and was destroyed by rot from within and attack from a world fed up with Roman domination.
So, we are down to two choices, drag the monster out of its castle and tear it up, or huddle with what little we have left while the monster consolidates its ill-gotten gains, and builds its strength until it will be a truly ghastly task to get rid of it.
The choice lies with We the People, or we the sheeple, but whichever choice we take, time is running out. As the people of Minneapolis found out, the Thought Police are getting stronger every day.
Snow Wolf
Some day they will come for you. What then?
I hope I can leave what's left of America before then. I'll tell stories about people such as you so that future generations can learn from your mistakes.
The only ones I fear "Coming for Me" are crazed Progressives seeking Social Justice (whatever that means)
If they came to get you Snow Wolf, I wouldn't shed a tear. You deserve the karma you get.
I'm with you, Snow Wolf. Already searching for an inexpensive home in another land.
Such places are out there.
Snow Wolf = Moon Bat
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Max is a real American Patriot.
We must win back our freedoms one bogus Patriot Act false arrest at a time.
Its going to take thousands of Maxs , enough so that the jails are full of good Amercians who will fight to protect us from our Domestic enemys.
Support our troops by letting them know that while they fight in a war based on lies to protect our freedoms from foreign enemys, we fight at home, to stop the hijacking of our country by those that would put more Americans in harms way for God and greed. Christians need step up as well.
Whats next??? What if there is an attack on a Jewish Synagogue, and inocent people from all walks of life are killed.
Will they round up every Jew and Muslim and put them in conentrations camps to protect us from being in the middle of a sick war.
Would the people be able to stop such an intrutsion of privacy?
The point is this, we must not let fear block the constituion as the supreme law of the Land.The Patriot Act is a new tool of control for the Right wing fake-christian neo-cons runing this country.
It is designed to give huge police state powers to local law enforement.
Who are the real terrorists? We Americans have many enemys, and some hide behind the cloak of God,badge and elected offices.
Where are the layers hiding? In Pakastin , lawyers led the fight in civil disobedience marchs and were arrested.
BornFreeMen
To think all this time I though Minnesota was "progressive".